86 billion dollars in rearranged electrons. we are going to be

We're the new rich faggot, get ready to rock.

>>2196623
Its all relative, 86bn on digital imaginary bucks or paper slave bucks. Its all the same

>>2196623
I think there's more fiat than just $86B

>>2196623
>86 billion dollars in rearranged electrons
Google and Facebook are worth much more than this and they are also rearranged electrons.

>>2196623
See: Twitter

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>>2196629
>get ready to rock.

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>Another boomer who still refuses to acknowledge value in codes

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>>2196623

>>2196623
>Have people really deluded themselves into being able to ignore the life-force that went into producing 86billion dollars?

what did he mean by this?

86 billion USD created out of thin air. Digital currency is the funniest human invention ever created. Imagine how much energy is burned everyday to trade these rearranged electrons. Nothing is actually created.

>>2196668
>Paper currency is the funniest human invention ever created. Imagine how much energy is burned everyday to trade these printed papers. Nothing is actually created.

>>2196623
This is what the New York Stock Exchange actually looks like. A big warehouse in New Jersey filled with computers.

http://www.datacenterknowledge.com/closer-look-nyse-euronexts-nj-data-center/

All banking and stocks and futures are done via ones and zeroes these days.

>>2196677
I misspoke. I meant to call them digital tokens. Calling it digital currency would be a lie as most of these tokens are not used to create anything. Paper money on the hand is used to actually create real things and services. Your counterargument would work if the world actually used Bitcoins beyond memes.

welcome to the algorithm economy

>>2196690
Bitcoins create a few things. 1) Laughter at no coiners 2) Salt

>>2196690
When you realize the reality of what money actually is you're going to have a nervous breakdown.

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>>2196623
We literally base everything off of pieces of paper that is backed by absolutely nothing besides being "trust" in a central authority. Fiat currency has an insane failure rate thoughout history.

Bbbb-buh a currency that isn't controlled by a group, with a finite amount (cannot be inflated) that requires confirmations and stores every single transaction in its code is just electrons sily!

Literally look up fractional reserve banking and you tell me which is the more sane monetary system.

>>2196703
You should be having a nervous breakdown yourself. All you're doing is using digital tokens to buy other digital tokens. There's no "economy". It's wealth transfer. Zero sum.

>>2196690
>17th century

>I misspoke. I meant to call them printed papers. Calling it paper currency would be a lie as most of these papers are not used to create anything. Gold on the hand is used to actually create real things and services. Your counterargument would work if the world actually used printed papers beyond memes.

>>2196623
lol
http://money.visualcapitalist.com/much-money-humans-created/
http://money.visualcapitalist.com/all-of-the-worlds-money-and-markets-in-one-visualization/

>>2196730
>Calling it paper currency would be a lie as most of these papers are not used to create anything
It's time to graduate high school.

>>2196701
10/10 im stealing this

>>2196721
https://www.thoughtco.com/why-paper-momey-has-value-1146309

>It’s simple: Money is a good with a limited supply and there is a demand for it because people want it. The reason I want money is because I know other people want money.

Remind you of anything?

Trust in crypto currency is growing and more and more people are willing to buy some
That's all you need to know

>>2196751
>Remind you of anything?
Doesn't remind me of Bitcoin if that's what you're memeing.

>Goods and services are what ultimately matter in the economy, and money is a way that allows people to give up goods and services which are less desirable to them, and get ones that are more so.

>People sell their labor (work) to acquire money in the present to purchase goods and services in the future. If I believe that money will have a value in the future, I will work towards acquiring some.

>Implying people are exchanging labor with Bitcoins
>Implying Bitcoin is not zero sum

>>2196742
pretty butthurt at getting btfo'd my man

why dont you just take a step back and realise your wrong

>>2196784
>why dont you just take a step back and realise your wrong
I'll admit I'm wrong when you'll admit Bitcoin is zero sum.

>>2196777
Exactly. Once trust in cryptocurrency builds to a certain level it will be unstoppable.

There are 9 year old children alive right now who have only ever known a world where Bitcoin has value. Once these kids reach their 20s the premise of Bitcoin not having value will seem as absurd to them as if you tell someone gold has no value today.

>>2196783
>bitcoin is zero sum
You mean it's worth exactly as much as people are putting into it?

>>2196783

>Implying you wouldn't suck my dick for 0.1 BTC
>implying people aren't exchanging goods and services for BTC

>>2196804
>You mean it's worth exactly as much as people are putting into it?
It's worth exactly what someone else is willing to lose for your gain. No labor is exchanged. No wealth is created. Hence, zero sum. This is simple logic.

>>2196825
>implying people aren't exchanging goods and services for BTC
>He thinks the miniscule volume of exchanging goods and services for BTC means anything
HAHAHAHA. Go to back to school, kid.

>>2196802

It already seems ridiculous. Tell a normie you have a whole Bitcoin. He will probably ask "And how much is a Bitcoin worth?" and after you tell him a Bitcoin is worth 2,500$ his eyes will widen and he'll ask you how to get a Bitcoin

>>2196783
The financial crisis dedtroyed my faith in the monetary policymakers to not wipeout my net worth in USD.

Interest rates are still so low 8 years later.
If the economy is all recovered why do we still need emergency low interest rates? What are they going to do when the next recession comes? Negative interest rates?

No one can mess with Bitcoin. There is no central authority to devalue it overnight.

>>2196751
lol @ paper money having a limited supply. It's never been limited & at this point over 90% of money in circulation only exists as 1s and zeros loaned out by banks from money they never had.

At what value will nocoiners start accepting reality? Or will they just sound increasingly delusional and upset well past $1 trillion marketcap?

>>2196850

>Negative interest rates?

Already a thing.

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>>2196846
this has to be satire desu

you realise people said the exact same thing about paper currency in the 17th century

>dude go back to school kid lmao

this is just cringe my man

>>2196623
as opposed to what? quantitative easing and limitless credit for TBTF and their buddies? quid licet Iovi non licet bovi indeed
fuck OP line of thinking and death to central banking kikes

>>2196857
The salt must flow

>>2196795
This guy just says ZERO SUM to everything holy shit. It's not a zero sum if you can exchange things for it. Right now you buy things in Bitcoin, right now you can buy things in other cryptos. The speculating here is the same speculation that drives the stock market, futures, commidities, etc.

You are just attempting to be intellectually superior but are clearly failing. How about you explain how cryptos are "zero-sum".

>>2196857

I'm guessing right now Bitcoin is at a critical value. It just needs to hold it for a while and not crash. The fear right now is that it's a bubble that bursts when the main argument is that it's a stable currency

>>2196857
In 2030 there will be small fringe groups of impoverished nocoiners holding signs on the street holding signs saying "It's just 1s and 0s", "Bring back paper money".

People will cross the road to avoid them.

>>2196878
>Right now you buy things in Bitcoin, right now you can buy things in other cryptos.

buying and trading are not the same thing

>>2196882
>the main argument is that bitcoin is a stable currency
kek, anyone making that argument is equally foolish. Bitcoin might be more stable in a decade or two.

>>2196862
>you realise people said the exact same thing about paper currency in the 17th century
Paper currency existed since the 11th century. It seems school's out for kids.

>It's not a zero sum if you can exchange things for it
You can't exchange labor for it. You are trading digital tokens for other digital tokens or fiat. If you can't pass basic education on what zero sum means, then don't argue with me, kid.

>>2196902
>>2196878

>>2196707
Modern fiat currencies are backed by debt and secured by governments wielding tremendous force to ensure those debts are paid. The strength of a fiat currency is rooted in the confidence of investors that its issuing nation continues to produce goods and services.

The value of Cryptocurrencies is rooted solely in speculator trading, with the exception of the rare asset-backed cryptocurrency, which will be the real future of currencies (asset-secured, limited, and anonymous), but don't attract as much attention because they can't be influenced as much by speculators.

https://ozgld.com/

>>2196893
I didn't say they were, you do realize that Bitcoin isn't solely used in trading right?? I mean holy fuck really? I clearly didn't realize buying and trading were the same. Again, you can purchase GOODS in Bitcoin. So how it is zero sum game if two people benefit from it's transaction?

>>2196783
Nigger I've bought gold bullion, silver bullion, and a nice sushi dinner with bitcoin, both of which I regret because the value of bitcoin has cone up so much since then.

The only reason why it isn't exactly as legitimate as paper money is because there isn't a government behind it forcing people to accept it as renumeration. Which is why people should start using it more, btw.

>>2196902

>You can't exchange labor for it

Actually you can. Hook an ASIC miner to an electric generator that is powered by manual labor and you're literally exchanging BTC for labor.

>>2196928
let the nocoiner stay poor and butthurt.

>>2196902
Paper currency not backed by anything except memes and a government that gets weaker by the day and has to bomb countries into using it has only existed since the 1970s

>>2196861
>go back in time and open a bank account
>back in the present try to withdraw accumulated funds
>ERROR YOU OWE THE BANK $10 MMM IN DELINQUENT INTEREST PAYMENTS FOR HOLDING YOUR MONEY
>bank seizes all of your assests including the time machine
>mfw they also seized my face collection

>>2196861
Explain

>>2196795
the whole universe is zero sum, matter is only transformed, neither created or destroyed. Stop being a nigger.

>>2196826
>labor is expended via mining of the blockchain to facilitate these trand actions
>no value or service is exchanged
Nigga wut

>>2196970
https://www.bloomberg.com/news/articles/2016-06-06/denmark-land-below-zero-where-negative-interest-rates-are-normal
Fuck fiat.

>>2196707

Just devil's advocate, most of history is also filled with constant wars and barbarian invasions, there is more to a failing economy than just using paper. We honestly can't judge pre-technological society and make comparisons to today, modern fiat may fail and it may not, we are a blip on the historical scale and nothing can compare.

>>2196857
nah, at 500,000 usd per bitcoin they'll finally buy

>>2196928
>So how it is zero sum game if two people benefit from it's transaction?


>Hey dude, I'll trade you my Venusaur for your Charizard
>Ok, let's trade!

Dude, Venusaur is a currency now!

It's totally a purchase and not a trade, trust me! I can walk into the comic store and trade Venusaur for an action figure, a comic book, hell even a costume!

If I can purchase actual goods with Venusaur cards, how is it not a zero sum game when both people benefit from that transaction?

>>2196857
Honestly they've already started accepting reality. Initially people were just laughing, now they're all saying it's "overvalued" and its "real price" is $100 or whatever since they realized its uses for less legal transactions, when they would have balked at the idea that some e-coin could be worth $100 5 years ago.

>>2197004
Look at this thread, there are clearly mentally unhinged people who still somehow think its worthless.

>>2196998
>Dude, Venusaur is a currency now!
Give me a call me if dealers starts selling weed for pokemon and I'll go all in.

>>2196988
>Actually you can. Hook an ASIC miner to an electric generator that is powered by manual labor and you're literally exchanging BTC for labor.
That's a side effect. The electricity isn't generated for just Bitcoins. Your example is like saying some retard who pounds worthless rocks is exchanging labor for food when the food is for the entire community.

>>2197026

Dude, books, statues and clothing are actual goods!

Venusaur is literally proven to be a currency because I can PURCHASE GOODS with it!

I finally decided to give cryptocurrency a try this year after years of regret watching the prices soar. I've made a very small profit but the fact is, Bitcoin is a pyramid scheme that aims to solve a problem that doesn't exist and all alt-coins are equally retarded.

Seriously, go read the white paper of any altcoin. It's more cringe worthy than middle management hiring some "motivational speaker" to throw around the words "synergy" and "diversity" for 90 minutes. What do they actually ACCOMPLISH? Nothing of value.

People like Fiat currency. People like having a central authority for their money.

You know what's fucking retarded? Sending someone money by typing in a giant string of numbers and then hoping it arrives to the right person. You know what else is retarded? Losing thousands and thousands of dollars (maybe millions?) because your hard drive shat itself and you have no way of recovering your private key.

You know what's awesome? Losing your credit card and then pulling up an app on your phone to instantly lock it in case it was stolen. You know what else is awesome? Getting a home loan from a bank, being able to recover funds if they're stolen, being able to issue chargebacks if a retailer rips you off.

Bitcoin is never going to be the "world currency" like some morons think it will. Fuck, I was trying to buy Bitcoin this week so I could get more ETH and it was a fucking chore. Coinbase was down, every other site wanted me to hold up a fucking piece of paper as if I was getting a mugshot taken after getting arrested and then took days to verify and very few exchanges accept debit card payments, instead opting for bank transfers which take days to clear. Are you fucking serious?

Furthermore, no one wants to actually USE a currency that can lose as much as 20% of its value in a single day. "Oh... Guess it's nothing but cereal this week since BTC lost it's value over night"

>>2197041
Am I missing something? Is there a market somewhere I can trade pokemon for clothes?

>>2197062

Just walk into a comic book store, obviously you can't make a purchase with Venusaur just anywhere quite yet, but that's because it hasn't caught on enough!

Just walk into a comic book store with a handful of Venusaur and start purchasing my dude

>>2197059
Literally cars will never replace the horse drawn carriage the post

>>2197059

Agree with everything you say, but Bitcoin will prosper not by people using complicated Bitcoin itself, it will be killer apps that look and feel like Paypal discretely using BTC in the background. I'm invested in one that is opening in ICO today, Metalpay, that is rumored to be THE killer app for Bitcoin payments.

>>2197062
What, just because you can only make a Venusaur purchase in specific establishments scares you? Don't be a pussy dude

>>2196632
This guy gets it.

The current M2 measure of the United States is on the order of 13 trillion dollars. The vast majority of that are just 1s and 0s on various bank systems.

>>2196640
In the US alone there is about 850.7 billion USD in circulation.

>>2197079
>>2197134
But really what the fuck are you talking about?

>>2196663
Stealing this. Go Flyers. Some day I will purchase you with my crypto earnings and we will get a franchise goalie and several Stanley Cups.

Before God I swear this creed.

>>2197059
People like you are the same people who lost their minds about the:
Printing press
cotton gin
Cars


You'll be kicking yourself in 10 years when all the shit you love about fiat is done by crypto better

>>2196783
You are the most immature, blind person in here.... Please, don't ever come back.

>>2197059
>"Oh... Guess it's nothing but cereal this week since BTC lost it's value over night"

Cash sitting in your wallet is losing value over time. With interest rates so low money in a savings account is also losing value over time.

>>2197147

The guy I replied to was arguing that crypto isn't a zero sum because "both people benefit" from the trade. Which is fucking retarded.

>>2197079
False equivalence my dude. Please kys

>>2196795
Learn what zero sum means before using the term, PLEASE. You are so god damn cocky, wrong and annoying.

>>2197112
>Hay has actual value and can be cultivated easily
>horses and carriages can be made anywhere
>why would we get our fuel from thousands of miles away and all own something so complicated that we don't know how it works
>how inefficient it will never catch on!

>>2197174

>this commodity can be purchased

>that means it's a currency!

yeah okay dude

>>2197163
>You are the most immature, blind person in here.... Please, don't ever come back.
Not an argument. Can anyone actually argue shit here or is it summer? Oh wait, it is summer.

>>2197178
>Learn what zero sum means before using the term, PLEASE. You are so god damn cocky, wrong and annoying.
We got another kid who doesn't know what zero sum is. Go ahead and tell how Bitcoin creates wealth. Go ahead and tell how usomg Bitcoin isn't me just getting money from some other shmuck for nothing.

It seems like everyone's here an uneducated moron!

>>2196902
1) People have literally bought lambos with Bitcoins. 2) I know several developers that are paid in bitcoins.

You say zero sum all the fucking time. Do you know what supply and demand is? Do you know what Economic man is? Have you even read anything about economics beyond your intro econ class? Cocky and stupid. Fuck off.

>>2197235
All the people employed by exchanges and news orgs are creating wealth. It's like the internet. People have to figure out how to use it to create wealth.

>>2197247
>1) People have literally bought lambos with Bitcoins. 2) I know several developers that are paid in bitcoins.
People convert Bitcoins to fiat. Labor for that Lambo was priced in fiat. Try again.

>You say zero sum all the fucking time. Do you know what supply and demand is? Do you know what Economic man is? Have you even read anything about economics beyond your intro econ class? Cocky and stupid. Fuck off.
>All these buzzwords but not a single proof that Bitcoin creates wealth
Another moron. Can we get some actual adults in this thread who understands what zero sum means?

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>There's an actual nocoiner ITT showing everyone how fucking retarded he is
When will they learn, lads?

>>2197299
dude invest in Venusaur now

>>2197166
What's the fucking relation to pokemon you waste of oxygen?
If you could easily purchase goods with pokemon it would be a currency, yes, but it's not.

>>2197285
What is the inherent value of PayPal?

>>2197112

hurr durr, very funny...

Except unlike cars which actually provide a benefit over horses (faster, comfort, shelter from the elements, control) Bitcoin offers literally ZERO benefits over fiat currency.

In fact, it's contradictory to currency to begin with because no one wants to spend an asset that is rising in value. If you had $100 in your wallet and you wanted to buy a $50 widget and I told you your $100 would be worth $200 tomorrow would you buy it? Only if you're mentally retarded.

Your analogy doesn't work because it assumes Fiat is a horse and Bitcoin is a car. The fact is, Fiat is the car and Bitcoin is the horse.

Lets see, today I went shopping and bought a whole bunch of stuff by simply tapping my card against a reader. Literally takes 3 seconds. Please explain how Bitcoin is better than this?

The amount of money on the card is stable (I know I"m not going to randomly lose $100 overnight thanks to a handful of whales) and if my card was skimmed and someone makes fraudulent purchases I just ring up the bank and get my money back.

Sure, in some cases you could make the argument that the government is corrupt or the economy is fucked, etc, but in that case Bitcoins are the absolute least of your worries. Farmers aren't going to trade actual food for a bunch of 1's and 0's if they're dirt poor and you're starving.

>>2197310
>If you could easily purchase goods with pokemon it would be a currency, yes, but it's not.

listen dude, you don't seem to understand this
I can walk into my local comic book store buck naked with only a Venusaur in my hand

I can give that Venusaur to the guy behind the counter and I can walk out in a Batman costume with a comic book in my hand. Please explain to me how I haven't made a Venusaur purchase for real life goods in that scenario. Seriously.

>>2197312
The inherent value of PayPal is whatever people deem its usefulness to facilitate transaction of goods and services around the world.

The inherent value of Bitcoin is whatever people are willing to lose on a crypto exchange. No goods or labor are exchanged. No wealth created. Zero sum.

>>2197336
>I can walk into my local comic book store buck naked with only a Venusaur in my handI can give that Venusaur to the guy behind the counter and I can walk out in a Batman costume with a comic book in my hand.
You can actually do that? Where?

>>2196668
Humans had a problem with money and poverty an decided to invent something to fix it. Screen cap this shit and in 20 years you'll remember I'm right

>>2197312
convenience and low fees relative to alternatives

>>2197338
I believe I have just unveiled the contradiction in your argument. I will accept your apology in advance since I'm sure it will take you a few hours to understand.

>>2197165

lol, ok mate. Please do tell me the last time you woke up and your bank account lost 20% over night. Unless you live in a third world shit hole this isn't something to worry about.

Also, if you choose to have your savings sitting in a low interest bank account that's your fault.

I bought an investment property instead of just leaving money in a bank.

>>2197342
Please explain to me how I haven't made a Venusaur purchase for real life goods in that scenario. Seriously.

>>2197299
Literally Been Bernanke worshipper ITT. A fiatcuck.

Just keep screaming for the next ten years about how crypto can't be a currency and it's a zero sum game because there is a finite amount and it can't be inflated to high hell.

Whatever, anyone with a brain and is in the crypto space knows that Bitcoin is only big because it was the first. It's not Bitcoin itself by the technology that allows decentralization of monetary value to take place that is important. If you can't understand this fact than you are just an idiot.

>>2196998
Well, you are right. It would be a currency. As gold is, as paper/ink is. As rice and chickens are, as weed and rocks are. If things have value and can be used to trade, sure, they can be seen as currency.

>B-but Venusaurs cannot be used in e-every store

Well you mong, you cant buy shit with Pesos in fucking Greenland either - supply/demand does not have to be global. I wonder why Forex is a thing.

>>2197360
There is no contradiction so you can't just declare "I WON THE INTERNET ARGUMENT".

>>2197385
a commodity is not a currency

>>2197400
What is gold?

>>2197365
See:
>>2197310

Why are you wasting my time with your bullshit?

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>>2196652
The entire fiat banking system is rearranged electrons, except they are backed some an old fat lady called Yellen while BTC is backed by the laws of physics.

Im sorry for the low IQ boomers that still haven't adapted their deprecated viewworld into the new reality.

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>>2197363
>I bought an investment property instead of just leaving money in a bank.
Great, you're one of the scumbags ruining it for the rest of us who are just trying to buy their first house. Fuck you. The housing market is in a massively overinflated bubble right now internationally. People like you should die. You buy a crapshack for $300k and relist it to new people entering the game for $800k.

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It's the only coin that doesen't need backing to be trustworthy, it's not heavy, prone to stealing, losing, it's infinitely divisible, and people can chose to switch half of the world economy into it.
Its an anarchist wet dream.
Its pure entropy
Its poesy
Just like OP's inner cryout for it to stop, when deep down he knows it will not

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>>2196902
I've made several million dollars by working in exchange of bitcoin over the past 7 years as a freelance coder, and I have bought a lambo paying with it directly with BTC, owner being there with his phone using mycelium.

Physical cash is going to get removed y governments over the next decades.

Bitcoin has already won. Sorry, your reality is collapsing.

>>2197416
you CAN easily trade pokemon for actual goods you moron

that's why Venusaur is a currency, right?

>Why are you wasting my time with your bullshit?
You're the one trying to tell my that a crypto commodity is a currency and Venusaur isn't, asshole

>>2197408
Exactly dude. What is gold and why is it valuable?

I'm actually willing to engage in this discussion civilly if you are. Why do people think gold has value?

>>2197285
>People convert Bitcoins to fiat.
Bitcoin was accepted; used as the medium of exchange.
>Labor for that Lambo was priced in fiat.
So? How does that change anything? Fiat is forced into the economy.

>>2197390
There is no argument to win. You haven't made an argument yet.

Protip: vague assertions and buzzphrases like "zero sum game" are not an argument

Protip II: When quoting something in quotations at the end of a sentence, "quotation marks should go around the period."

>>2197115

And this is exactly what I'm talking about.

Solving problems that don't exist.

EARN POINTS FOR SPENDING MONEY!!!111one

Oh wait... Pretty much every credit card already does this.

Why would anyone want to use this over AMEX or Visa or Mastercard which are already established and accepted all over the world?

Why would people choose to use Bitcoin over fiat?

You're much better off investing in Bitcoin and spending fiat instead making "Metal" useless.

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>>2197438
Boomers gonna cope.

>>2197460
>Protip II: When quoting something in quotations at the end of a sentence, "quotation marks should go around the period."
That's a US/UK convention. UK does "outside". US does "inside." I prefer the outside style, it makes sense because often what you're quoting is not the end of a sentence.

>>2197453
>you CAN easily trade pokemon for actual goods you moron
How and where?

>>2197453
>Why do people think gold has value?
Even goldbugs argue it's principally because it has a history of being used as currency.

>>2197486
>How and where?
at the fucking comic book store for christs sake I have said this multiple times

the guy behind the counter believes that the Venusaur has value and you can exchange the Venusaur for the goods he provides, holy shit dude

>Even goldbugs argue it's principally because it has a history of being used as currency.
If an EMP hits the entire planet, gold still exists.

If you forget where you put your gold, the gold still exists. It's principally used because of it's history, yes, but there are reasons for that. Ignoring them is dumb.

>>2196902
>labour theory of value
Gee Mr Wells, how did you manage to build a time machine in the 19th century?

Most of you people are stupid. Money is simply a medium of exchange. It's there so I don't have to give you things if we had a pure barter system.

Mediums of exchange do not have to be things of actual real use. If we did, we would be using pieces of food or cups of water to trade with. It's all the same.

>>2197509
Arguably entertainment is worth more than labor today. Content creation is pacing employment among the young people.

YouTube is highly profitable. Basically no inherent value besides an advertisement platform. But they don't get the huge audiences for that reason.

>>2196737
Is there a 2017 version of this.

>>2197505
>If an EMP hits the entire planet, gold still exists.
If an EMP hits the entire planet we have bigger things to worry about since 99.99% of global wealth will be wiped out. I'm not just talking about "electronic money" in ledgers here, I'm talking about the internet and other global networks, datavaults, all software that have been developed in the history of mankind, contracts (paper or digital, it doesn't matter since no one can check if they're genuine or keep track of who owned what at the time of the catastrophe), all electronics which means basically any good that isn't just an inert chunk of wood, plastic or fiber...

>the guy behind the counter believes that the Venusaur has value and you can exchange the Venusaur for the goods he provides, holy shit dude
So why aren't you trading him Venusaurs instead of buying your stupid cape comics with cash? I mean, you don't believe Venusaurs have value, right?

Currency is simply different forms of Mediums of exchange that have reached critical mass. Btc is a currency. Fiat is a currency.

People say btc has no inherent value. People say fiat has no inherent value. Technically both of them have no inherent value but they are still used as money because people assign value to them.

>>2197582
>If an EMP hits the entire planet we have bigger things to worry about

the gold still exists

>So why aren't you trading him Venusaurs instead of buying your stupid cape comics with cash? I mean, you don't believe Venusaurs have value, right?

Because my time is worth more than Venusaurs and the amount of time it would take for me to begin making my primary purchases specifically in Venusaurs would require too many trips to the comic book store.

86 billion is nothing
The cryptomarket isn't even a child yet
What's with all of these newfags lately? Seems worse than usual

>>2197606
Can you eat gold?

>>2197630
irrelevant

>>2197634
>gold still has value and will be tradeable when all life on earth is dead

'no'

>>2197653
>gold still has value and will be tradeable when all life on earth is dead

Well first of all, I didn't say that. So congrats on making it up, you have a strong imagination.

Second of all, using a lifeless Earth as an analogy is stupid. An EMP hitting the planet does not mean every human dies. People survived without electricity for a long, long time.

And guess what? The gold still exists.

>>2197466

Crypto highly durable?! Haha, ok. Except when an exchange gets hacked or your HDD randomly dies, but ok...

I dunno, last time I checked a coin is pretty fucking durable. You can run over it with a truck and still use it.

Highly divisible?

Here's a secret: No one wants to buy a banana for 0.093528752 btc

That's fucking retarded.

"Hey, how much is that banana?"
"70c"

"Hey, how much is that banana?"
"Ummmmm, let me check, oh, here we go, do you have a pen and paper to write this down? It's zero point zero nine three five two eight seven five two bitcoins"

See how fucking retarded that sounds?

Secure?!

HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA. Ok. Have your Bitcoin stolen and then try getting them back. Meanwhile, any fraudulent purchases made on credit card can easily be refunded.

Are you literally 14?

Decentralised isn't good.

I'd prefer the government to issue currency over some fuckwit in China with a warehouse of GPU's, wasting computer resources and enough power for a small city to run pointless number crunching.

I don't give a fuck if my money can run a fucking app. That's not what currency is for.

>>2197674
Now THIS is how you FUDpost

>>2197606
>Because my time is worth more than Venusaurs and the amount of time it would take for me to begin making my primary purchases specifically in Venusaurs would require too many trips to the comic book store
I see, I see.
Well, imagine if the comic book store was right next door?

No wait, even better: imagine if you could just buy all your stuff on Amazon with Venusaurs without getting out of bed, wow!

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>>2197674
>Decentralised isn't good.

>>2197420
>>2197438
3deep5me

>>2197688

the gold still exists

>>2197710
Can you buy with gold on amazon?

>>2197669
EMP means food shortage. Food would be worth more than gold in that scenario.

You said food was irrelevant so I assumed you are fine with starving to death while clutching the gold.

All money is nothing but re-arranged stardust

>>2197674
>hey how much is that banana
>70 satoshis my good man

>>2197375
I am capping some of the posts ITT for future reference as comedy gold

>>2197723
>EMP means food shortage. Food would be worth more than gold in that scenario.

I can grow my own food, fuck face. Food exists after the EMP. You are making up a fantasy land and then trying to argue against your own fantasy land.

If an EMP hits the planet, I still eat food. I still grow food. Animals still exist and I still hunt them. I still have my gold. Your currency no longer exists.

The gold still exists.

>>2197718
irrelevant

>>2197751
How do you get food growing necessities without a car? Batteries are killed by an EMP too.

>>2197761

jesus fucking christ I hope you're just dicking around lol

>food can't exist without cars

>>2197770
You right now have immediate access to seeds and farm tools? You are an extreme minority.

Your food will still be more valuable than gold to everyone else so your basic idea is still wrong.

>>2197783
>Your food will still be more valuable than gold to everyone else so your basic idea is still wrong.

My basic idea that the gold will still exist and your bitcoin will cease to exist is still wrong? Care to shed some light on that?

OP is going to freak out when he realises 15,000 billions of dollars are routed daily through the banking system.

Then there is the derivatives market. If you ever want to discover everything you will ever do in this life is financially insignificant compared to the 0.001%, look it up.

>>2197723
Besides modern agriculture crashing, EMP actually means a shortage of all complex goods and services except for raw materials and other inert commodities.

If goldbugs were not retarded and actually expected a EMP scenario they would be liquidating all their gold to buy some EMP-secure vaults and store backups of digital libraries, source codes and anything else they can download on a warez site. Then they would sit in their bunker on a pile of consumables (food and fuel mostly) with the key to the vault so they can buy the world after the collapse with the priceless information they safeguarded.

>>2197726
>All money is nothing but re-arranged stardust
All matter is nothing but re-arranged stardust

>>2196623

Dude wtf dollar is basically the same thing. Money works only because people agreed it works. Same with btc

>>2197796

Nice fantasy land you made up there. I especially liked the part where you made up a human that doesn't exist and then proceeded to argue why that human's choices would likely be inefficient.

The gold still exists.

>>2197793
Gold will be worthless. Styrofoam will last much longer than gold without decaying.

>>2197751
>irrelevant
So you refuse to buy with "Venusaurs" because it would be too much hassle to walk to the comic book store according to your retarded scenario, but you don't have a problem with the fact that you can't spend gold anywhere except those "cash 4 gold" stores where they fleece desperate grannies because they can't buy their groceries with their jewelry?

>>2197810

Oh, have we been arguing about gold's value vs styrofoam?

Because I thought this was a cryptocurrency thread.

>>2197822
You are saying gold will be more valuable than crypto. I am saying both will be worthless. If Armageddon happens anything can be used as currency not just gold.

The gold will exist but a lot of stuff that exists is worthless.

>>2197674
Good post

>>2197808
You're the one who started talking about global EMP hits you fucking lunatic.

>>2197818

>people will refuse gold

Good one lol

>>2197841
I tried to wire Amazon a gold ingot but it didn't go through.

>Its a "WHAT ABOUT A EMP" cope again

>>2197840
Goldiots always bring up the end of the world scenario as if gold would retain value when there is no reason to exchange gold for anything when people are sick and starving.

Also insuring yourself against the end of the world is dumb as hell. It's unlikely and everyone would be worse off no matter how prepared you feel you are.

Convert your life savings into penicillin. That will be worth something. Until the desparate mob decides to just take it instead of bartering because they outnumber you.

>>2197862
The mental gymnastics this faggot has been doing this entire thread are simply amazing. AAA grade cognitive dissonance.

>>2197840
>You're the one who started talking about global EMP hits you fucking lunatic.

No, YOU are the one that argued that
>Even goldbugs argue it's principally because it has a history of being used as currency.
I used an analogy that depicts a scenario that cryptocurrency would literally not exist. All of it. 100% of it gone.

Humans survived without electricity for a long, long time, with gold being among the most, if not THE most valuable commodity throughout that span, and you are the one arguing that gold should not have ever had value in the first place. I am explaining to you why you are wrong.

>>2197862
Funny thing is they think their fiat will be safe in that situation.

They probably think their bank account is a room fullof stacks of banknotes. Reminds me of this:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=aUuvzgRBELM

>>2198151
>implying btc won't be so valuable that having even a fraction will allow you to have your own robotic army and living in a personal domed shelter and ruling millions of mad-max savages around

kek

>>2198174
If the world economy ran on bitcoins there would be world peace since everyone would have a vested interest in maintaining the network integrity.

Does world peace have no value to you?

>>2198151
The end of the world scenario isn't being used to argue that gold is the most valuable thing on earth, and you're pretending that it is because that point would be easier for you to argue against. If only there were a word to describe what you're doing...

>>2197606
Goldbugs are so fucking stupid.
>Everything will collapse, the internet and all electronics will be wiped out, governments will crumble, and my gold will still have value
Yeah, and you'd be willing to give me multiple bricks of gold just for some food or bullets and I probably wouldn't even take that deal. If you actually thought everything was going to go to shit you'd be investing in heirloom seeds or bullets, not gold.

>>2198174
Gold was used a currency before electricity precisely because it can be used without electricity, along with other metals and seashells and who knows what else.
Now that we have electronic money almost all transactions are done with electronic money, I haven't used cash for anything other than vending machines and tipping this month.

>>2196623
The only reason money have value in the first place is because we have faith in it.

>>2198182
>If the world economy ran on bitcoins

And if the world economy ran on piss you'd let me piss in your mouth. But who gives a fuck


Making up dumb analogies is fun eh?

>>2198176
>Money removal plc

Where can I buy shares?

>>2198204
>If you actually thought everything was going to go to shit you'd be investing in heirloom seeds or bullets, not gold.

I don't think everything is going to go to shit, and I never implied that I did.

You are arguing against a fantasy land that someone imagined and proceeded to argue against. I have not even implied, let alone claimed, that "everything was going to go to shit".

>>2198228
Why would I accept a transaction with no inherent value? Are we still in your EMP fantasy?

>>2198240
You said that all electronics would be wiped out, that clearly fits the definition of everything going to shit.

>>2198240
>You are arguing against a fantasy land that someone imagined and proceeded to argue against
You mean you, asshole? You're the one who keeps dragging this fucking conversation down into retarded hypotheticals about EMP and buying comic books with Venusaurs and pissing in people's mouths.

>>2198215
>Gold was used a currency before electricity precisely because it can be used without electricity

It was used for many, many more reasons than just that. You just continually argue against stupid shit that you yourself are claiming, do you even realize that?

Here watch, I'll do it so you can understand:

>The only reason that people like crypto is because they can use it on their phone, and everyone is fascinated with their smartphones way too much these days! Once people lose interest in smartphones, crypto will die!
Do you see how stupid it is to do that? I begin with a statement that isn't true and that you never said yourself, and then I argue against it in a way that seems like I'm arguing against you. Stop doing that dumb shit dude lol

>>2198256
>You said that all electronics would be wiped out
no I didn't

>>2198241
>Are we still in your EMP fantasy?
What fantasy? Humans surviving for thousands of years without electricity isn't a fantasy. I used that analogy to explain to you why gold is more stable than most currencies on earth. It's difficult to think of a scenario where it no longer has value.
Have you ever been in an area where there was inclement weather that was so bad that cell phone reception was blacked out for a while? It's not a fantasy, you're just pissed off because I used that word to make fun of you.

Do you not understand why relying on an internet connection in order to "own" your "currency" isn't very stable?

>>2198315
>Do you not understand why relying on an internet connection in order to "own" your "currency" isn't very stable?
Fair point, of course, that's why we still keep some paper in circulation.

>>2198333
>Fair point, of course, that's why we still keep some paper in circulation.

So is crypto stable or not?

>>2197435
Wouldn't you do the same thing if you had the money? Quit being a faggot and work towards what you want

>>2198315
Why do you keep mentioning piss all of a sudden?

If I am anything, I am concerned for the wellbeing of those around you. Listening to your insane rants about gold must be intolerable in person.

>>2198351
Many would classify a home as a need.

>>2198357
>I am concerned for the wellbeing of those around you. Listening to your insane rants about gold must be intolerable in person.

hey look you imagined a fantasy land again lol

>>2198348
Is electronic money stable? If not, why is 99% of the world's economy relying on that?

>muh intrinsic value
>muh EMPs
>muh mad max

did i travel back to 2015?

>>2198371
>implying you don't start rambling about gold any time someone offers you a soap box
Who do you think you're kidding?

>>2198374
I can't even remember the last time I paid cash for something. I know its been over two years at least. There's probably some kids growing up right now that will never use cash for anything, a lot like some young adults are completely confused about checks.

>>2198374
>Is electronic money stable?

No, fiat currency isn't very stable. And it not being stable is one of the problems that bitcoin is trying to resolve, and you damn well know that.

>why is 99% of the world's economy relying on that?
This isn't easy to answer dude. The reasons that most economies are based on fiat currency are many. And you damn well know that too.

>>2196623
What about the trillions and trillions of dollars and the brain drain that goes into the financial sector. What do they produce? Cryptocurrencies basically can automate all their jobs.

>>2198393

>demonizing someone's character instead of addressing what they've stated

Hmm, if only there were a word for this...

>>2198398
Using a fiat currency electronically is not an argument for why electronic crypto is a good alternative lol

>>2196623

https://www.federalreserve.gov/faqs/currency_12773.htm

>>2198421
When all money is seen as digital by a growing number of the population the concept of digital money having value seems far less strange to most. It then becomes a matter of which you'd rather have, one where more of it keeps being released or one where there is a maximum amount. Should be obvious which will end up worth more in the longrun. Gold is antiquated. I can't send gold to someone halfway around the world and have it show up the next day. Hell, I'd buy art before I bought gold at least I could have some value out of it by having something nice to look at to hang in my home.

>>2198464
and have what I bought show up the next day*

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>>2196690

>Paper money on the hand is used to actually create real things and services.

Can you give me 1 example?

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>>2197115

Thanks for the tip.
I will throw half a BTC on this later today.

>>2197454

You fiat loving dictatorship globalist cuck fucks.
Why are you so in love with a system that enslaves you?

Fiat is and will stay the big dog.
But the banks are planing an exit on your sorry asses.

Who do you think will stay with the debt?
The rich and powerful?

It's amazing how people insist on being stupid.

Will your economy go under if you throw 500$ on BTC or maybe a smarter investment that's in the pennies right now?
If it would get the fuck off 4chan and get a decent job and income you fucktard.

That 500$ might make your pension secure in 30 years.

Is this place really filled by 14 year old kids?

>>2198539
in zimbabwe you can create fire with trillion dollar bills

>>2196668
>Imagine how much energy is burned everyday to trade these rearranged electrons.
Bitcoin mining currently uses about the same amount of energy as the entire country of Ireland.

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>>2197625

Everytime there is a spike on the crypto market that one nerd tells his class or co-workers and the influx of noncoiners being butthurt missing out on making money reaches critical mass and they end up here depositing their salt upon us.

The natural cycle of salt for the next 30 years.

>>2198691
Then Bitcoin dips by 10%, they sell in panic, and write articles, declaring it a dead failure.
https://99bitcoins.com/bitcoinobituaries/

>>2197115

Why exactly do they need an ICO for this?

>>2196707

How long do the banks allow it though, and governments.

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>>2198176

Why not be more relevant instead of linking to a fucking fictional clip?

https://www.rt.com/business/cyprus-bailout-withdrawal-banks-756/

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>>2196623
It's meaningless if it isn't backed by a metal we mined out of the ground!

Invest in heavy industrial equipment to manufacture things in the US and mine more metal from the ground!

Actually the value of Bitcoin is closely tied to the electric energy behind the mining process.

>>2197178

What does it mean?

>>2198703

to get rich fast.
I almost feel like putting up a website on wordpress for my own shillICO and see my wallet get filled with BTC.

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My FUD with cryptocurrencies are:
1) They exist in the cyber world where the nerd with an IQ of 150 is potentially omnipotent over the below-genius plebs (more so than in the physical world).
2) They're not that anonymous or fast or decentralized. Exchange platforms seem to replace banks/jewelers and cloud mining companies seem to replace real mining companies. Except they waste energy resources to extract something of absolutely no intrinsic value.
3) Decentralized nature of the stuff can lead to terrible results if governments roll with it instead of trying to suppress it. Imagine superpowers investing unbelievable amounts of money into quantum supercomputers and hacker teams just to get a greater share of the currency supply while energy resources cost 100x more in value.

>>2196970

Europe has negative interest rates. You literally have to pay money to give banks your money. They want you to spend money to increase inflation.

>>2196623
Cryptocoins aren't really worth 86 billion dollars because many coins have been lost, especially in the beginning.

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>>2198904
1) They are open source so no omnipotence
2) XMR/Zcash/zcoin/zcl are anonymous. Masternode coins are fast. Decentralized exchanges are in the works. PoS doesn't waste energy
3) There are already quantum resistant algorithms

>>2198464
why the fuck would you need gold that you are selling show up the next day lol

>>2196623
>meanwhile has multiple trillions in rearranged electrons controlled by a centralized entity

Good goy

In the near future, we're going to be harvesting so much energy from the sun that we'll all be living like gods.

86 billion in wealth is not even a drop in the ocean compared to where we're going.

>>2197674

Very good post.

Sold my BTC

>>2196846
is this the new nocoiner cope mechanism?