>tfw you realize people didn't start their Roth IRA's

>>1701751
>practical finance isnt a class in HS

I started investing at 30 :(

34 now, I put 2k a month into equities and the same into rental properties.

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>401k
This is exactly how wagecuck cope looks like.

>>1701751

I started investing at 26.

Yeah, I fucked up.

Until recently a lot of 401k's were restricted up to 21.

>>1701800
Nobody who spends that much time folding their handkerchief is elite, anon. Though he is pretty handsome.

>>1701762
>2000 a month into rental properties
Could you explain that?

>>1701751

>Started investing at 18
>24 now with $60k
>tfw it's still not enough

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>>1701751
>mfw $195k in net worth and no retirement savings at 25

>>1701855

You got enough money to live based on whatever you do for a living right now? Because if so, your $60K will be enough to keep you comfortable for a while if shit goes wrong.

>>1701800
>he can't spare a few thousand a year to have a comfy nest egg at retirement
Stay mad poorfag

>>1701800
What's wrong with a 401k?

>>1701902
/biz/ Roleplayers refuse to acknowledge that tax-free retirement accounts are amazing because they're all gonna be sooper rich off shitcoin

>>1701904
I'm 25, should I open a Roth IRA or a 401k for retiring at 40?

I make about 60k a year and pay 1k in rent.

>>1701896

Yes I don't spend much money, my annual expenses are $25k but I live in a 1br apartment in a city so my rent is expensive. I feel a little bit secure with the money, but I just want enough money to leave my job and maybe run a small business earning maybe $15k - $20k a year.

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You know what's tragic?

My Nubian Queen getting pounded daily by some faggoty ass skinny white techie douche.

This makes me sad.

I'm currently investing with the acorns app, is it a good replacement?

>>1701751
do you trust your government not to raid these funds one way or an other before you retire tho?

i have similar options in my country, i dare not to take advantage of them i figure when the pension system collapses these will be raided first.

>>1701918
>My Nubian Queen getting pounded daily by some faggoty ass skinny white techie douche.

WOW. Serena is marrying a fucking white boy.

WTF???

>>1702038

I bet her ProudNigger "All white men must die" father is fucking crying inside.

>>1701904
>>1701902
the problem with a 401k is that I can actually make a better return with that money investing in the stock market myself adjusting my portfolio every 3-8 months which is more liquid than a 401k.

A 401k is basically given to wageslaves so they feel like they are doing something right for their future, when in reality they could actually be learning how to roll that money over themselfs and retire early.

>>1702042
do these things also have high fees attached that almost negate the benefit from delayed/no tax?

i had this weird feeling when i ran through these pension plans with a guy that the only one really profiting from it is the institution handling your account. even more so, not only they negate the tax advantage, but in bad years when you would have no profits to pay taxes after they outright skin you alive with the fees that are dependent on the size of the account and not the yield.

>>1701927
kek

>>1702059
just learn to navigate the world of finance yourself. A 401k is basically the lazy way of doing things.

>>1702068
yeah well i have been hanging around on /biz/ for 2 years now and feel more stupid and unsure about investment every day.

>>1701908
Roth IRA takes priority, it is 100% tax free deposit and 100% tax free withdrawal at retirement. Plus the max deposit into a Roth IRA per year is $5,500 which most full time workers can achieve without too much worry.

401k has taxes at some point (mind is blanking right now because I just got back from the gym) but the maximum deposit anually is somewhere in the 18k range, which is waaaayyy harder to meet.

I'd say with 60k, 12k a year in rent (I would find a cheaper deal if you're renting senpai, $1k is dumb for one person to pay for an apartment, and you shouldn't be spending more than $600~ a month in rent if you plan on retiring early (40 is a meme, you won't retire comfortably unless you save/invest 80% of your income until you're 40. Which is in no way realistic. I'd aim for 50 years at the minimum. )

That leaves $48k a year

Take about $5k to cover living expenses and utilities

You now have $43k a year, take $5k to cover extra costs/fun.

That leaves us with $38k to invest.


----
>ROTH IRA
Max it out at $5,500 a year. No question.

That leaves $32.5k to invest.

>401k
This is the harder part. If you work a good job, you should have a company 401k plan where they take a part of your paycheck every pay period (usually %5) and put it into your 401k. The cool thing about these company policies are that the contributions from your paycheck (that %5) gets matched by the employer.

That's free money.

But besides that, you should be making a $10k a year investment into your 401k for a healthy retirement to supplement the big bucks from your savings and Roth IRA. If you want to be absolutely sure you have the best retirement chances, go full out on the 401k and max out your deposits.

Let's call that $18,000 a year into your 401k.

That leaves us with $14.5k to work with.

This money should be split between a brokerage account/savings

(mainly splitting equal investing in- mutual funds for a riskier investment, dividend stocks, and bonds)

>>1702081
>>1701908

Tl;dr - you have enough income to max out both and you should

>>1701894
I'm in your position. In 2017 I'm going to divert 100% of my paychecks to my 401(k), and when that's maxed out switch to after-tax 401(k) which I'll immediately rollover to my Roth IRA. I'll also put $5500 in my tIRA and convert that to the Roth and well.

Untaxed conversions are basically the same as contributions, they're available for immediate withdrawal, so I'm basically overmaxing my Roth with no risk.

I can afford to do this for about five years in a row before my checking account runs dry, I won't even be touching the majority of my taxable accounts.

>>1702042
>>1702059

You guys should get a vanguard 401k where your company pays the administrative fees.

A 401k is also fairly liquid, you can rollover to a tIRA and convert to Roth (which is a taxable event) and the converted money is available after 5 years.

It's obviously not good emergency money but it's not tied up til you're 60 either.

>>1702068
>A 401k is basically the lazy way of doing things.

Everyone saying this is an idiot. The tax deferral directly saves you money (unless you run your 401(k) balance through the roof, which you'll have years of warning before doing in which time you can work on filling Roths and bleeding the 401(k) via rollovers and small conversions).

You literally can't get this by "being smart" on the stock market.

>>1702105
Walk me through the steps you're taking, because I've always heard about people using after tax 401k's and I never really got the point.

Also overmaxing a roth, how do?

>>1702124

The smart man can do both and get away with it.

Just one or the other won't help.

>>1702081
>40 is a meme, you won't retire comfortably unless you save/invest 80% of your income until you're 40

The "simple math of early retirement" post suggests that saving 50% of your income will get you a same-expense-level retirement after 15 years, from ages 25 to 40. This ignores tax (because MMM manages to pay no tax by having a kid and barely any expenses, which really depends on him living his sort of lifestyle in Colorado) and also assumes a constant average return (which is quite a gamble over a period as small as 15 years) but it's definitely doable.

So I think the person you're replying to has a very good chance of pulling it off with only a 60-65% savings rate.

>>1702125
>I never really got the point.
>Also overmaxing a roth, how do?

If you plan supports "in-service rollovers" (my plan at my.vanguardplan.com does, I suspect all of Vanguard's 401(k) plans do) you are allowed to roll over any after-tax 401(k) money directly into a Roth IRA. Since the 401(k) contribution limit is $54k in 2017, but only $18k of this is allowed to be pre-tax money, you can in principle put $36k of money into a rIRA with this trick.

Basically every paycheck you divert some amount to "after tax 401k". Wait a day or two, then phone Vanguard and say "I want to make an in-service non-hardship withdrawal of my after-tax 401(k) into my Roth IRA" to move the money.

The waiting is probably unnecessary, but it doesn't hurt (well, if there are gains in the two day period you have to pay income tax on them), and it means that the IRS will see different dates on its records so they'll be clear that you did this process in order and weren't somehow directly contributing to a Roth, which would be illegal.

This is explained in more detail in
http://www.madfientist.com/after-tax-contributions/

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>>1702152
Jfc I researched this for this last hour and this seems too good to be true.

If that's the case then 401k's are literally useless if you can roll everything into your IRA's...
Any more tax cheats I've been oblivious to that you can think of?

>>1702194
Well, bear in mind that even a 5-year delay is five years in which congress can close these loopholes (and they'll be portrayed as "rich people dodging taxes", so it'd be hard to argue to keep them unless the AARP likes them). I'm doing long-term planning assuming I have all these loopholes forever, but I'm very conscious that congress might block me, which could lock my funds away from me until age 55 and/or force me to convert a lot at once and pay a ton of income tax.

But here's the deal, as I know it:
1. You can always put $5500/yr into a tIRA, but it won't be tax-deductible if you make more than $70k or so. (If you make less than this shit gets complicated, I haven't explored this.) You can then convert this into a Roth, and since this conversion is nontaxable (it's on after-tax money) the funds are immediately available for withdrawal at any time penalty-free.

Any earnings on this money are locked away until you're 59.5. I don't know how to get around this.

2. Traditional 401(k) money can be rolled into a tIRA when you leave employers, or at any time if your plan supports in-service withdrawals. Be careful doing this if you are also using your tIRA to backdoor Roth funds as in step (1), since this money is pre-tax and there are ordering rules for what you can convert. (Converting pre-tax money is a double whammy because you're not only taxed at conversion time, but the taxed funds are then locked for 5 years before you can withdraw without penalty. And Roth withdrawals must be taken in order, so if you have locked money in there, all the subsequent money gets locked with it, even if it wouldn't have been locked otherwise.)

To be clear: by "locked" here I mean you have to pay a 10% penalty on this. You'll wind up with a few bucks locked in this way because of gains/losses while the money is in transit, just eat the 10% on the few bucks.

con't.

>>1702217

3. Roth 401(k) money can be rolled over into a Roth IRA. Again this is a nontaxable event so the principal is immediately available for withdrawal. I believe, but don't know, that the earnings from the Roth 401(k) become earnings in the IRA, and are therefore trapped til you're 59.5.

4. After-tax 401(k) money can be rolled over into a Roth IRA. Principal is not a taxed conversion so is available immediately. Earnings on the 401(k) money will be taxed as income and subject to the 5-year rule so you probably only want to do this if your plan supports in-service rollovers and you can do the conversion quickly after contributing it.

5. If you have a low-income year, say because you've quit your job, you can roll your 401(k) into a tIRA. This is not a taxable event. You can then, at any time and in any quantity (modulo the ordering rules, if you're doing this at the same time as step (1)) convert this money into your Roth IRA. This will be a taxable event but you can do this a little bit at a time to keep your net taxes low. Any money you convert this way in the 0% bracket will be totally untaxed!

All of this money, even the 0% money, is considered a taxable conversion and is locked for 5 years. You can withdraw any money from the Roth you contributed _before_ this, but this money (and all money after) has a 5-year delay on it. Every conversion has its own 5-year clock. Keep track of this.

>>1702226
Finally, if you're playing these games and make it to age 70 still with a ton of money in your 401(k), you need to be careful. There are now Required Minimum Distributions which could force you to withdraw a ton more than you were, jacking up your taxes.

You want to keep this in mind as you age and start withdrawing more earlier, even if it increases your taxes then.

If you find yourself in this situation and just want to fuck the government, you can contribute to charity directly from a tIRA or 401(k). These contributions count toward you minimum distribution but are not taxed. So you're basically increasing your tax rate from 30-40% or whatever it was, to 100%, but the "taxes" go to a charity you like instead of the IRS.

I'd advise you don't do be spiteful toward the IRS, because at this point you (a) want there to be Social Security money available to placate the proles who weren't doing this their whole lives, and (b) you got a _lot_ of tax breaks from the IRS through these schemes, I'd be kinda grateful.

Oh, and I should add: I am not a lawyer, this is not legal advice, I'm not even American. I just live here and was ecstatic to learn that this country's high wages are complemented by a porous tax code that outright encourages FIRE behaviour.

>>1701840
he paid his rent

>>1701918

CHALKED.

Also that guy is like 6'5. He's probably hung like a milk bottle.

He is ready for that jelly

>>1702038
black women belong to white men, nigger.

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>>1701918
>mfw i'm related to her
feels gud

>>1702239
>a porous tax code
Not sure how you draw that assessment. Your "trick" involves moving around POST-tax dollars, which the government has never been particularly restrictive of doing. The IRS has already collected taxed on the earned portion of the income, so they're happy if you choose to invest it.

Case in point: backdoor Roth conversions. You can literally contribute MILLIONS to a Roth, as long as you pay income tax on the earned portion.

>>1702112
>You guys should get a vanguard 401k where your company pays the administrative fees.
I realize you're not American, so I won't ream you over this mistake. But do understand that a 401k is a company sponsored plan, by definition. It's offered by your employer, and the employee does not get to choose whether it exists, the amount of the match (if any), who administers it, what the fees are, or where the accounts are maintained. You cannot "choose" a Vanguard 401k.

Some employees offer very good 401ks, with healthy matches, sound administration, low fee investment options, and flexible rules. But many 401ks are toxic deathtraps. Investment options may be few and expensive, matching may be paltry or non-existent, and administration may be difficult to work with. Indeed, its so bad that many employers get a portion of the fee income for your 401k, creating a perverse incentive to raise the fees to offset the operating costs.

Don't paint with too broad a brush. Not all 401ks are the same, and you can't give blanket advice and expect it to be relevant to everyone.

>>1702263
height has nothing to do with penis size sadly

>>1701804
>implying he doesn't have some slave to fold it for him

>>1702024
In America the first thing to go would be Social Security, not privately held accounts

>>1701751
Looks like a complete scam to me. I told my parents to put a long put option on all their 401k investments for 2017 and they said that it was not possible. I don't want to be in a situation where I am forced to lose 80% of my savings and it's literally impossible for me to do anything without getting screwed.

>>1701904
The eternal despair of nocoiners. How butthurt will you be when BTC becomes official world currency?

>>1702440
yeah i mean after that. out state pension system will foreseeably collapse in 2018. with the demographic changes the money flowing in does not nearly cover the money flowing out.

when that happens in that very moment the government will have two options 1 they reduce pensions 2 they find some money elsewhere. extra taxes are unlikely and contrary to their previous policies. more debt is also not a path they can openly follow. so that is why i think they will try to postpone the issue by a few years by raiding private savings. first step would be to disallow the option to choose cashout instead of life annuity. then they will simply cut the pensions to size those with private annuity will receive less state pension as it will be distributed based on "need" and stuff like that.

>>1701902

I dont like the thought of locking myself out of my money for a few decades. Yes, its tax-free, and employers will even put more money in with you if you agree. but remember: these are the same people that will ship your job overseas in a heartbeat. they DO NOT have YOUR best interest in mind. They WILL find a way to fuck everyone over. Maybe it hasnt been done yet, but the situation gets more desperate every year.

No one believes social security will be there for millenials, so you should be taking matters into your OWN hands. whatever you are allowed to keep, keep it close, and spend/invest it on your terms.

>>1702510
You do realize that assets in a 401k are legally yours right? The likelihood that an employer will be able to raid it is the same as an employer raiding your checking or brokerage accout.

>>1701751
I dont need an IRA. I have ORB

>>1702506
>our state pension system will foreseeably collapse in 2018

How have you not spent every dollar you own buying ocean-front property in Arizona? Also, how do you not forget to breathe during the day?

>>1702545
i have absolutely no idea what you are trying to say here anon.

>>1702553
He's saying that you're expecting huge disasters to happen immediately and in the biggest way possible, and that this is retarded.

>>1702506
this is a Venezula tier policy
if it gets that bad America will not be worth living in

>>1702539

oh shit no i didnt well if the government gives me their reassurance then it that case i think its a great idea.

I started two years ago, I'm 47 lol

I'm 27 but I just started a 401k. I'm not putting much into it though, just $100 a month or so.

I do have a 403b that has vested and I've been contributing to it since I was 25. If I retire at 55 I get 50% pay for life, and if I retire at 65 I get 100% pay for life.

I want to invest enough in my 401k to make up for that other 50%. I'd like to retire at 55. Shit, my parents are 55 now, and that'd be ideal. I only make 70k right now and have some debt that needs to be paid off. Should be debt free in like 3 years though.

>>1701927

Their fees are dumb. I just look at what's in my chase account at the end of the day and round up and add a dollar, then send that to my brokerage vanguard account

>>1702570
>this is a Venezula tier policy
yeah same stupid shit different wrappings

>>1701751
>tfw when u think we live in communism and a lower class doesnt exist

>>1702584
you really should be 18 before posting on this site?

>>1702571
All 401k contributions by employers are legally required to be vested deposits. (That means that the money is yours and only yours, employers have no legal right or the ability to take from your 401k, even if you leave the company.)

>>1702603
?

>>1702081
roth ira is not 100% tax free. you pay income tax on the funds you deposit (unlike the standard ira where those taxes are deferred). basically, use roth IRA to pay income taxes now or use standard IRA to pay income taxes later.

i use a roth.

>>1701804
>coping with the fact that guy is a multimillionaire making mad money on instagram doing nothing while you wagecuck

>>1701901
>has to wagecuck
>calls other poor

>>1701902
it's for wagecuck pussies that think retirement as an old bald man is amazing

>>1702721
>it's for wagecuck pussies that think retirement as an old bald man is amazing

See my posts
>>1702217
>>1702226
>>1702234

There is no reason deferring taxes means you "want to retire as an old man".

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>>1701751
pensions are a ponzi. wake up idiot.

Any funds you do have left will be stolen by the government when the finacial crash happens

>>1702850
>pensions are a ponzi.
yes exactly, they are if you think about it. at least in my country maybe in the us the money is actually invested and kept here they just pay out what comes in. which works fine till the demographic grows. but we are now in contraction. shit gonna blow up.

started mine in highschool i've got 180k right now.. not too much, the calculator says when i retire at 60 itll be 15m. that plus other savings and investments and inheritance i'll be paying some serious taxes, hope the army needs some new gear 8)

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>big saver
>new company doesnt offer 401k
>only have IRA and HSA to shield my money from the zog machine

what if I don't want to save that much money for when im older?

I have energy now and I want to experience things while im young. I don't give a shit about meeting new people around the world and doing fun stuff when i'm in my 50s or 60s. I don't want to lock 10% of my income away for years as oppose to some other more liquid investment just for some marginal gain where I don't even enjoy that money as much as I would right now.

>>1703885
the only reason you think it sucks to be 40+ is because your entire old retarded family is fat and ugly and miserable and locked down at that age

in reality just save, work out, you'll age like half the amount your fat ugly dumb family did and have an amazing chill care free life when you're their age

not only that but you don't have to lock that much of your income to do it

>>1703813
How old are you now? Have you heard of FIRE?

>>1701751
>>1701800
I started 3 years ago at 35 and its current value is ~$300k after regaining last weeks losses. I guess I should have started at 18.

>>1703885
use a roth ira conversion ladder
also i max out an ira and still make $3k a month after taxes
is that not enough for you to enjoy "muh youth"?

>>1704806
max out 401k*

>>1702610
>>1702539

sorry, i must be paranoid, I just dont trust the government to not pull some totalitarian jewish tricks in the next few decades.

>>1701751
I've been offered a "Simple IRA" at my new job. Should I take it? I don't know I play to stay in that job until I am 65 to retire.

BTW I know absolutely nothing about IRAs or how they work.

>>1705438
>I've been offered a "Simple IRA" at my new job. Should I take it? I don't know I play to stay in that job until I am 65 to retire.
Simple IRAs have mandatory matching or mandatory employer contributions. In other words, FREE MONEY. So do you think FREE MONEY is a good idea?

IRAs are always transferable. You can move them around if you change jobs.

>>1705438
Then google it. You can take your IRA wherever you work, it gets rolled over.

>>1701800

Checked.

And a 401K up to at least the company match is an annual 100% ROI. Even CuckCoin can't match that.

Even if you pay the 10% penalty for cashing out before you're 55, you're still up 80% and the compounding was free.

You are literally leaving a pile of free money on the table for not taking advantage of it.

>>1705480
Most people here live in there parents basements shilling butt coins and specialize in buying high and selling low. You can't reason them, they all have successful businesses lined up ready to take them to the moon.

You can't reason with these people.

>>1705468
>>1705471
I forgot to mention that I make $11/hour.

But I guess its worth it then, even if it means getting less money weekly on my small paycheck.

>>1705501
If you are covering bills and debts then yes make contributions. Pay yourself now and your futureself will thank you.

However if you aren't in school or in a trade you need to look into either and find a better job. 11hr sounds nice at 18-20 years old but it gets old fast.

>>1705508
Already graduated, this job is the only thing that I could get hired for.

Wish I could look for a better job but bills need to be paid. Won't be looking for anything else for at least a year.

>>1705513
Don't be retarded, you can work and look for a job hell at the same time too. Leverage that degree you idiot. What's your degree in?

>>1705529
Computer Engineering
Its not what it sounds like though, may as well have been a liberal arts degree.

>>1701751
>1 post by this ID
>posts a coalburner judging everyone else

i really hate this board sometimes

>>1705531
Lol you're a fool. Even liberal arts majors can find a decent job, better than 11/hr thats for sure. Do you get your degree from a non-accredited university or something? You can find a job with that degree or you can move somewhere that has jobs. How many jobs have you applied for and how many interviews have you done?

>>1705541
Lost track.

This is the only job that I was able to find after a year and a half of unemployment.

>>1702081
>>1702136
Simple math says that if you put away $30k a year for 20 years at an average annual interest rate of 6%, you'll have well over a million dollars.
If you invest that at a 6% fixed annual interest rate you're looking at well over $60k a year to live on in retirement, although I don't know much about fixed income investments so I don't know if that's practical.

>>1705554
I had to put in over 200+ resumes over 3 months to find my job. It's work no doubt but it's really silly to sit there with that degree and not be doing your damndest to find a good paying job. People will hire you for unrelated jobs because of a degree like that.

>>1705564
>Sit there with a degree
>Implying that I haven't submitted hundreds of resumes in that time.

>>1705570
How many interviews have you gotten?

Look man I'm not trying to shit on you but to get that kind of degree which is hard work and settle for 11/hr would really chap my ass. Hell you don't even need a degree to make more than that.

>>1705564

Now that you have a job it'll be easier to find another. Just don't wait too long, or employers will wonder what was wrong with you. Work on building up references, and NETWORK NETWORK NETWORK.

Over half of the jobs I've had were a result of networking. "Frank, we need to add another person. Know anybody ?"

>>1705575
This -> >>1705573

If you're a loser shut in it's time to stop being one.
I believe in you man for what it's worth.

>>1705573
A degree isn't worth shit without experience and an employment gap. I've gotten hundreds of calls and dozens of interviews in that time, but I can't force people to interview me for every application that I submit.

Frankly it got to a point where my degree was irrelevant and I would have to settle for any job period.

>>1705575
Unless you have a successful friend or were born with capable parents I call bullshit on this.

>>1705600
Come on dude. Fools get jobs all the time because of connections and networking. Don't be salty, it's just how it is.

>>1705555
Typically you plan to only draw down 3-4% a year, even though your actual returns are higher on average, so that you don't screw yourself in years that the market underperforms.

Otherwise you can find yourself where your portfolio is at $800k and you still take the $60k "average 6% return" out, then the remaining $740k is unable to recover back to the full million.

>>1705573
i also couldn't find a job when i graduated, and i graduated with a near 4.0 GPA and mechanical engineering as my major. granted this was back in 2013 so things changed a bit since then.

ended up going into a phd program since i couldn't find a job and i'd casually apply to entry level engineering positions because the phd program is shit. finally, in 2015 i got an in person interview for an entry level field engineer positions. they gave me an offer, but for the intern position instead of the full time position. it paid $17/hour, had no benefits, and allegedly after "as little as 6 months" i could get bumped up to the full time position.

the kicker? i checked on linkedin and everyone working for that company as field engineer had some bullshit degree from places like devry, or even from community colleges. as far as i could tell they all started directly with the full time position. at that point i had 6 years of college completed, worked with equipment very similar to what the job involved, and they try to put me into an intern position.

yeah, fuck that. at that point i stopped applying and decided to just try and stick it out with the phd. i'm not certain if i even want to apply once i'm out of the phd program or if i'll just try to commission in the military.

>>1702617
Its a joke about how you're stupid and must be a child to think like that.

>>1703885

Lel my dad goes to gym at 69. He does lat pulldown with 130 lbs

>>1705634
no i was curious about what his exact problem is with my statement.

>>1701902
The thing is the 401k may have been a privilege to boomers in the past, but may not be the case in the future with rising budget deficits and shortfalls both in the public and private sectors. Also the government has the right to remove social security anytime if they wish.

>>1706315
>The thing is the 401k may have been a privilege to boomers in the past, but may not be the case in the future with rising budget deficits and shortfalls both in the public and private sectors. Also the government has the right to remove social security anytime if they wish.
Everything in this post is wrong. Seriously, its impressive that every factual statement in your entire post is 100% false.

>>1702124
Aren't you conflating saving with growing your money though? Ideally, wouldn't you want to grow your money for as long as possible and then save?

>>1702130
Smart man, thoughts?

>>1706331
> Ideally, wouldn't you want to grow your money for as long as possible and then save?
No. You can't grow money if you haven't saved it first, because otherwise it doesn't exist.

> Smart man
Sure, you can play stock-picker and also use a 401(k). To so, you're logically required to use a 401(k), which is what I had said you ought to do.

>>1701751
I don't plan on living past the age of about 60 so why should I choose a 401k over other investment options?

>>1708052
You don't have to wait until you are 60 to take money out of a 401k.

>>1701751
>yfw at age 25 i was earning too much to start a roth ira.

>>1708052
Because you can defer the taxes on money going into the account until you withdraw it, when presumably you'll be in a lower tax bracket.

I think to get the money before age 55 you have to rollover the 401(k) into an IRA and then convert that to a Roth, at which point there's a 5 year delay, but it's definitely possible.

You can also withdraw the money and eat the 10% penalty.

>>1708134
>he doesn't know how to do a backdoor roth contribution

>>1708155
>what is a sep ira

>>1705667
Your dad sounds small and gay

>>1701855
where to start

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>>1701751
>Not investing everything in Potcoin.

Pleb.

>>1705667
I'm pretty sure I did that when I was 12.

I'm 20 with 11k. Where do I open a roth IRA without getting jacked by fees?

>>1708784
>Not investing in Bitcoin.
How fucking stupid are you?

>>1708784
Buy 10 bitcoins retard

>>1708796
Not as stupid as you, apparently.

>>1708817
I really hope you remember this thread in 2030.

I'm 20 and have a part time job making $10 an hour, no earthly idea what a 401k or Roth IRA is (well, aside from a quick google search), nor did I know that I needed to know what they are.

What should I be doing? How do I start?

>>1708871
you should consider just killing yourself

Dumb question: what happens if I stop contributing to a Roth?

>>1701751
Yeah, I'd like to, but I get soaked for both Social Security and my pension plan. I'm lucky to have a few nickels to put into stocks I want to invest in. Fuck being soaked by the low return high fee 401K/IRA management jew.

>>1708969
the jews come for u

>>1708894
Where were you that was so much better at age 20? I'm in nearly the same situation, but I save nearly all my money and I think I've got a bright future ahead.

I'm currently working a little higher than mim wage in Florida($8.20/hr) I'm also enrolled in community college and transferring to UF.

Assuming I do an avg of 25 hours a week over the course of two years(when I hopefully transfer to UF pizza hut or another job) I'll make 19,680 before taxes(25*8.2*4*24).

I receive fasfa money, full amount (somewhere around $5000 per year [spring+fall])

Only applies for 4 or 5 years so thats 25k over the next 5 years
But gotta subtract costs of tuition which is around $7-8k for cc and 12k-18k for the last two-three years.

How the heck will I get the most bang for my buck?

I have a credit union account for savings at 2.5 and BoA/Chase for savings at 0.1

Do I just start depositing money towards a place? I've considered not investing since I can't afford to lose money right now.

Are CDs over two years or IRA even useable? I'll make a mim of $160 deposit for iras easy. What can I do?

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I'm really fucking peeved they didn't teach this shit in highschool.

I'm graduating this year and I have no fucking idea what the fuck is going on with my own checking account.

My only hope is my econ teacher at this point and I just finished her classes last semester, hopefully next year she'll sit with me and help me figure out what the fuck is going on

>>1709925
Same. This thread is pretty intimidating...

>>1709925
>>1710095
you guys are fucking lucky you got a heads up this early!

>>1705501
You barely notice the deduction, since you don't pay tax on it.

Employers with SIMPLE are required to match 3% of your salary, so you want a minimum of 3% of each paycheck to go to SIMPLE. More is better, of course, and it makes your taxes go way down too.

I'm also pretty sure 100% of the money is yours no matter what. It doesn't matter how long you work there.

>>1710101
Heads up on what? I'm not even sure what I'm reading

>>1702105
I am pretty sure there is a cap on diverting paychecks to 401k. Usually 85%per paycheck. Unless it is based off each companies own rules or something.

>>1710199
>I'm also pretty sure 100% of the money is yours no matter what.
It's even better than that. IRAs and 401ks are "custodial" accounts, which means that they function exactly like a trust fund (think rich kids).

The account is actually owned by whomever runs your IRA or 401k (e.g., Vanguard, Fidelity, Prudential, etc.). The important point is that its not owned by your employer, and its not owned by you.

The fact that it's not owned by your employer is important because it means you can always take it with you when you change jobs, and if your employer gets in financial trouble or goes bankrupt, they can't touch your money.

The fact that it's not owned by you is important for the same reason. Although that might sound bad at first glance, what it means is that your creditors can't seize your 401k or IRA to pay off your debts. There are some limitations and exceptions, but for the most part any money you save in these accounts will come through even a personal Chapter 7 bankruptcy completely untouched and still available to you later in life.

>>1709519
>age 20
>not saving anything
>dead end job
I bet you're not even married right? Jesus this fucking generation is just sad as Mr. Trump would say.

>>1710761
I said that I saved nearly everything and I do. I don't have a dead end job and I'll probably be married in a year or so. I'm not really sure what your point is, but you have the wrong impression about me.

>>1710761
>Marrying one of these hoes

lol

>>1701840
he probably is buying shares of some shitty REIT

>>1710652
Thank you for being sane in this mockery of a Business and Finance board.

>>1701751

I'm pissed off because Uncle Sam won't let me put my NEETbux into a 401(k) or Roth IRA. Shouldn't I be saving for my retirement?

I guess the wage cucks have to be given SOMETHING...

>>1710648
>I am pretty sure there is a cap on diverting paychecks to 401k. Usually 85%per paycheck. Unless it is based off each companies own rules or something.

There is no cap, although note that you have to pay FICA taxes (plus income tax on the taxed amount, since FICA tax is not deductible), which will be withheld as usual per your W4.

I have my diverted amount set to 100% right now and I receive 0.00 every paycheck. Aside from the above taxes everything goes to the 401(k). Since we just started the year right now it's all going into the pre-tax bucket.

My budget year runs Sept to Sept as an overhang from my school years, it's nice to see my effective tax rate drop a bit every paycheck.

>>1705555
the average person cant afford to put 30k back when they are young or raising children, that will be half a paycheck or more for 99% of people ages 18-30. 6% interest rate is to high for banks (atleast in the US), anywhere you are getting that high of a return on CD's is probably going to have a market crash soon or hit hyperinflation. also you have to pay tax's on profit made for that 6%. and if you make enough to put 30k away a month and still live comfortably chances are you will be in a high tax bracket and loose a chunk of change on that return

>>1701762
>>1701801
I'm 21 what do?

>>1712314

How can you afford to not get paid?

>>1713535
I've got six months' savings in my checking account, and then several more years in non-tax-advantaged brokerage accounts.

>>1701751
I'm 23 didn't start my 401k until mid 2016, I'm a little late to the game by your standards but oh well.

>>1702571
>>1704858
You are paranoid.
The most important thing to a first world nation is their credibility.
If the government decided to take everyone's money all of a sudden, not only would the currency be worthless, you'd already be so deep in the shit that your retirement account is the farthest thing away from your mind.

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I put it in immediately at 20 years old for the complete match and no more, 50% returns on 2k is good enough even if it is untouchable for 50 years. I pool the rest of my money in mostly real estate. I can get about a 16-20% cap rate on my own and including tax deductions from depreciation i'm killing it in comparison to untouchable, tax-free, 7% gains.

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>>1701918
>ENSLAVED

>>1710506
that you need to start thinking about how you will live 40 years from now.
because you will have almost nothing a beggar on the street standing in line for warm food at christmas if you don't.

>>1713981
>The most important thing to a first world nation is their credibility.
that is why we are so afraid. if credit is the only thing that keeps these floating then we are all fucked sooner than later.

someone tell me what do with all this in the UK please. We don't have roth IRA or 401ks and all that

>>1715208
>someone tell me what do with all this in the UK please. We don't have roth IRA or 401ks and all that

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=s75GcslrfOE

>>1715208
you probably have something like that, ask someone at your bank should have financial advisor service available.

the thing is you have to be very careful not to sign anything on spot because the banks have a tendency to push you towards deals benefiting them first and maybe even screw you over a bit long term.

is this this roth ira calculator accurate? if so i am so fucking retarded. im 29 and have around 70k sitting in my jew bank

>>1715289
link http://www.bankrate.com/calculators/retirement/roth-ira-plan-calculator.aspx

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Financial knowledge seemed to be much poorer 5+ years ago

>Graduating high school
>School has daily assemblies and talks to have people come and tell us we'd all be millionaires if we go to college
>Families all buy in. Everywhere you turn you hear "Someone with a degree earns $1m more in their lifetime than someone without. What would you do with a million dollars?"
>Nobody ever talks about how much shit costs, how to build for a future, what to pick etc
>Parents force me to go to college, despite my wanting to take a year off to figure out what I want to do
>Pick business admin kuz I think "Well everywhere needs managers, right?"
>Never told about credit, scores, equity, anything. Am basically told I'll be a millionaire, don't sweat it
>Never save. Never accumulate wealth
>Now working 12 years in retail, as a District Manager
>Net worth of $-800. Expenses take up 95% of my income due to debt, especially student loans
>Didn't open savings accounts until 23, didn't open Roth until 27, STILL don't have anything invested because I can only commit about $10/month into the roth (And I have no clue how to open an index fund)

I'm better off now, only having picked up knowledge in the past 6 years. I got my credit score to 750, I built myself up from a -$10k net and will be in the green for the first time this year, and I'm learning to limit my expenses and track/budget effectively.

>YFW I'm the only one I know with any sort of financial knowledge
>My wife, her mom, everyone I know but my parents don't even have savings accounts

Why didn't education care at all to teach this stuff?

>>1715444
American "lower" education (high school and below), just doesn't teach people useful things. The most useful class I took, accounting, I took because my gf took it and I had actually learned a few things. The things I took away from the class wasn't part of the curriculum, the teacher just talked about things some times with anyone who would listen.

Schools are more worried about passing rates for government funding and the ratings of the school districts.

Most kids don't want to learn this stuff at 16. They want to smoke cigs, drink natty light with their friends, and bang bitches.

A personal finance class instead of the 12 year of English class would be great. Even if it was just one quarter or whatever at the end of their senior year.

Glad to hear you're doing better with your finances now in your late 20s instead of being 50 with nothing.

>>1702579
>I only make 70k

How terrible!

But, seriously, you could be diverting a lot more than $100/month to a 401k -- as well as other investments -- making $70k.

>>1715444
High school teachers aren't exactly known for their financial acumen, and college professors are barely any better. They think the right way to teach kids about investing is to have a paper-trading contest and award first prize to the lucky coin-flipper with the best 30-day performance. Is it any wonder that kids think stock picking, active trading, day trading, and speculation is how you're supposed to do it?

Intelligent, long-term investing is boring. Effective and proven, but boring. The majority of adult Americans is too stupid to buy index funds. How do you even begin to teach kids boring financial strategies when virtually every person they know is too ignorant, impatient, and undisciplined to follow those strategies themselves?

>>1715444
>27+ year old STILL blaming his shitty life on high school teachers
>Blaming others for your shitty decisions

You will never amount to anything

>>1715511
His point is that this shit needs to be taught in schools. Quit projecting. Shit he's doing better than the average American aka probably you.

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>>1715444
>I'm the only one I know with any sort of financial knowledge
Where did you learn your financial knowledge?

>>1715465
>>1715444
Odd, at my school we have a personal finance class. It thought some basics but nothing complicated.

>>1715569
I first got tuned into Ramit Sethi, who basically sells his own finance services. I spent no money, read his book, learned a lot about finance and looked into r/personalfinance and here plus self-taught material on google.

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>>1715511
>Blaming my life on teachers
>Blaming others for my decisions
I only had one choice. What would I do, have my family disown me because I'd rather have figured out what I wanted to do? I would have went into computer sciences or something, at least, if I had any clue what the job market was like. Again, something not taught. And back then you couldn't just google this shit.

The second I learned how to be financially responsible and intelligent, I implemented it immediately. The same day I found out I had bad credit was the same day I opened a secured card, made a budget, and saved to pay down debts. Before then, it's just what life was.

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>>1702092
if u a real, you max out both and max out your HSA

>>1716719

tfw I can not legally have an HSA account.

;__;

>Open account with Vanguard
>Look at interface after logging in
>What the fuck do I do here
>Logout

This is why most people don't do this shit. I have no clue what to do after opening the account.

>>1716968
>I have no clue what to do after opening the account
Transfer some cash into the account, and buy something. It's not that hard man. And they have 40 different types of customer support, not to mention extensive help pages.

Sounds like you're trolling or not trying.

>>1716975

Not trolling, just new to all this. I have no clue how to navigate or how to out money or what to buy etc.

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>>1716979
C'mon man, make an effort. If you're not functionally retarded you just have to put in the time to do some reading.

Learning to invest intelligently is one the most useful and valuable things you'll do in your entire life. Put some effort into it.

>>1701918
Armenians aren't White.

>>1701751
I'd rather Invest in my own human capital

>>1716968

Np. Only morons trade outside of tax-advantaged accounts.

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>>1717001

>>1716963
used to have that feel until tricare kicked me off. I pay ~2k more a year so idk man i'd rather be on tricare. I'm just making the most out of my situation and the HSA is a decent positive in an overall shitty situation.

>>1717677

Yep. I'm on TriCare and VA.

If you get VA care you're not allowed to do an HSA, FYI.

>>1701751
>tfw you realize investing in a roth IRA is for plebs who only care about "muh retirement".

>>1701751
My Roth made 12% last year

ADMIRAL CLASS INDEX GOAT-TIER

Started Roth about 4 years ago when I was 23

>>1702081
>Roth IRA takes priority, it is 100% tax free deposit and 100% tax free withdrawal at retirement.
No you are taxed on your income. Traditional IRA you detect the investments from your income and then are taxed when you withdraw.

Your money is always taxed, just matters if you want it taxed now or later.

If you're making 6 figures better to tax later.

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>>1708784
Vanguard admiral class (requires at least $10k) have one of the lowest fees

Get mutual funds that follow the S&P500 mine made 12% last year

>>1717973
>admiral class
Aww poor baby, your 401k plan doesn't give you access to institutional class funds?

>>1717992
I'm a grad student so I don't have a 401k provider

I also don't make enough to have regular installments or to max out my annual deposits

When I graduate theres a lot of 6 figure jobs waiting for me

>>1717999
>When I graduate theres a lot of 6 figure jobs waiting for me

Aw, look who fell for the college meme.

>>1718124
>doesn't realize there's a big need for programming related jobs in biology
>doesn't realize that a specific field of genetics that I study is only able to be done by a handful of labs in the world
>doesn't realize there is a real market need to develop diagnostic tests for autism (which I study)

stay pleb

>>1717999
>When I graduate theres a lot of 6 figure jobs waiting for me
Kek
PhDs are the biggest meme. You're not going to learn anything you couldn't if you just went straight into the workforce. Plus companies don't look favorably on people with phds

>>1718165
Explain how people I know work for X biotech company for starting 90-120k?

I can name 5 people within the last year.

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>>1717992
>Aww poor baby, your 401k plan doesn't give you access to institutional class funds?
mfw I can buy institutional class in my individual account.

I don't have anything to put in it.