What are some ways to make a living as a programmer that don't

>>1583304
>What are some ways to make a living as a programmer that don't involve working for somebody else or being forced to build retarded shit for clients?

Writing malware

>>1583304
spend time building a more interesting, competitive, fun portofolio

>>1583311
Maybe you misunderstand. I meant without having to ever work on somebody else's project again. I have enough experience in this industry to know that clients are all fucking retards who don't know what they're doing and I have no interest in interacting with another one of these fucks ever again. I'm looking for ways to make money with this skill on my own.

>>1583316
Hey op, I'm currently trying to learn/improve my coding for real world applications. Can you recommend any resources?

>>1583316
uh you can develop your own software and make money off it? apps, SAAS, whatever

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>>1583304
>>1583316
Depending on where you live, that could be fairly easy with contacts or hard.

I don't have any experience with freelancing but I have a few friends that live in Toronto that do freelance web development. Living in a large city, you have to have contacts to get any work.

Since you don't really have a name for yourself nor a portfolio with client's stamp of approval, you will be paid very little. You may end up doing some work for free, either because you might get work from that client later on that pays or the client tries to wiggle out of the deal one way or another.

No matter what though, you will get shit from clients - at a salary job or freelancing, it's inevitable. You just have to put your best work out there (eat a little scope creep from time to time) and hopefully you will reach a place where you can pick and choose your work at a good price.

>>1583406

he said he doesnt wanna build shit for clients

>>1583388
The only real way to learn any kind of programming is to just do it. If you want to build web apps, just start building web apps. Learn from examples, like looking through open source projects, or by reading docs for popular frameworks.

>>1583395
Yeah, but which of these things is actually feasible? Most of the shit on app stores is sold for free and only begins to be profitable when you get up in the millions of users and can start to see some amount of revenue from ads. Doesn't really seem like there's any way to compete in that market against all the well established players.

>>1583422
saas is where big money is at. make software the solves a problem that businesses have and license it to them for a monthly payment. charging 100 businesses 100 bucks a month gives you 10k a month for example. all while having virtually no expenses so you pocket all that.

>>1583414
Maybe OP can scam a millennial with a trust fund in SV or SF with a bullshit app, website, etc. Maybe OP can write malware for a government or political group. Maybe OP can join a non-for-profit group. Maybe OP can end up like japmoot and manager(or create) a website that can barely be sustainable.

If OP wants true freedom, the best outlook is freelancing if OP want the future prospect of developing what he wants, when he wants, and for how much he wants.

>>1583430
>freelancing
>developing what you want
These are two completely contradictory things.

>>1583425
This is exactly what i want to do while studying, do you have any more info? anythign to help me going (some site for it, networking ideas, sites to learn stuff, etc)

>>1583310
Underrated
I made loses from hack forums

>>1583304
Build your own product.

The fuck kind of question is this?
You answered your own damn question.

>>1583316
Ah great, sounds like you've been in this industry a week now.

If you can't figure out how to make your own money, don't call your clients retarded.

There's 1000 ways to make money as a software developer, but you need to be smart enough to figure that out.

T. Software dev for 10 years this month

>>1584950
Also, as long as you make money, you will always have a fucking client.

Money doesnt come from your ass.

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Just make video games bro!

Just kidding, you probably won't make any money.

>>1584950
Actually I have 5 years of experience, and every employer/client I've ever worked for didn't know how to make money either. Considering their sole "skill" is supposed to be figuring out how to make money, I think it's safe to say they're retards.

Fact is, getting a job as a developer is about the easiest thing in the world. I currently make good money working part time from home, but that doesn't change the fact that the work fucking sucks. Every project I've worked on I could tell from day one was going to fail, with 100% certainty. Maybe you enjoy mediocrity, but I can't tolerate a project that I know will turn out to be a piece of shit, regardless of how much money somebody wants to pay me.

What I'm looking for is a way to make money selling something directly to people, because at least then I can be in control of the entire product and build something I'm actually proud of.

>>1583425
Oh man, that's the word for it. I found an industry that hasn't caught up with the tech world that I think I can automate much of it.
Also it doesn't seem like I have many competitors especially locally.
My problem is where to go from here? I have the idea and basic layout. But I've never worked a day in this industry. To I just sit down with a local guy who does it and ask if he'd be interested in such a service?

>tfw they'll probably say "no"

>>1585531
SaaS definitely sounds like the solution to your problems. The hard part is finding something that companies need.

>>1585566
Hire a freelance developer. There are a multitude of websites that offer this. I've read of multiple people who built apps without writing one line of code.

here's some inspiration: indiehackers.com

>>1583304
Cryptocurrency will work for this. Bitcoin based asset protocols are getting hot.

>>1583304
1. develop winning business idea
2. capitalise on business idea
3. develop programs to streamline your workflow
4. become more productive as a result
5. grow business
6. go to step 3 X many times
7. sell business
8. live off passive income

>>1585581
Sorry, I should've mentioned I'm a CS guy so I can do most of the coding. However id probably hire someone to do the front end to make it look professional.
My question was more of, how do I make sure this would be a service people want? Do I go survey guys that do what I'm trying to help with?
I'm trying to figure out what information I need to account for and if people would use it before I spend time coding.