Is there any downside to the payday loan industry? So far from

>>1559869
Well, there are the moral issues of exploiting the desperate, poor, and stupid.
There's also the fact that you are relying on the desperate, poor, and stupid being able to pay off their debts in a timely manner, which is unlikely.

>>1559869
>Is there any downside to the payday loan industry?

What point of view are we talking about? Customers? Owners? Employees? Affiliated industries? Government? Social services? General public?
Depending on which side you take there are more or less problems.

>>1559903
Should have mentioned.
Pov owner

>>1559888

> moral issues of exploiting the desperate, poor, and stupid.
> implying this isn't how the world works

Nice bubble.

Well the possibility that they don't or cannot repay the principal+shitload of interest

>>1559888

You know where the desperate, poor,and stupid will go for quick cash if payday loans didn't exist?

An actual loanshark.

>>1560066

> the good old days

When people were actually held accountable.

>>1559869
I worked at corporate of a payday loan company and the hardest part about getting them to pay the loan back is all of the laws protecting the customer so that you can't garnish their wages or call their work etc and the fact that you are dealing with people who no one else would loan money to.

>>1560434
They don't demand collateral up front?

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>>1560066
I'm not saying they should be illegal.

>>1559869
I don't have any issues with the profit aspect.
The problem is that there are too many people stupid enough to get buried by this shit, whereupon the rest of us wind up carrying their dumb asses.
So as long as our society hands out welfare with little qualification, I guess we need rules in place to protect the morons from themselves.

>>1560441
No a payday loan literally does not even check credit or report to credit because these people already have credit that is complete shit. The reason why the rate is so high is because they expect you to pay for the other people that aren't paying.

>>1560447
Thing is, the laws don't even protect these morons from themselves because if they don't go to a payday lender, they'll either steal and pawn shit, overdraft a checking account and be subject to even higher fees, or go to an illegal loan shark. Payday lenders are legitimately the most rational option for people with shit credit and bills to pay.

Granted, most of these morons could solve their money problems by knowing how to manage their finances, but it's pretty hard to legislate retarded and unnecessary purchases out of existence.

>>1560502
>it's pretty hard to legislate retarded and unnecessary purchases out of existence
Granted, but I guess you could cap APR%.
Even for credit cards it's only 30% or so, right?(I'm guessing, b/c I pay them off monthly)
Cash Call is like 99.25%.

>>1560543
The APR is not a good thing to look at for a payday loan considering the fact that it is usually only a 2 week loan depending on the state. When people hear that they it is 450% APR they don't realize that it means that if you get a loan of 300 dollars then you would just have to pay back like 350 dollars total. These people are also people that can not get a loan from anyone else because their credit is so bad.

>>1560543
They could, but this would effectively legislate every payday lender out of business. Payday lenders already operate off slim margins since their customers have comically low credit scores and a tendency to not pay their debts (versus credit card customers who need to meet a minimal credit score for approval in the first place). The high APR is necessary to cover all the jackasses who never pay back.

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>>1559869

I own stock in Cash Converters.
I imagine that they'll do well during the next recession when all the poorfags pawn off their stuff.

>>1559888

I knew someone who owned a car finance company, and believe me the "desperate poor and stupid" and much bigger arseholes than those who loan to them.

Poor people in aggregate are always talked of in a noble light for some reasons. But the reality is that most of these people (payday loan customers) are deadbeats who'll rip anyone off for free stuff and would do anything to avoid a days work.

>>1559869
>Defaults
>Defaults
>More defaults
>Most of your customers defaulting
Go for it

>>1560557
>people that can not get a loan from anyone else because their credit is so bad
Sounds to me like they shouldn't be able to get a loan then.
Isn't this just enabling them to continue a lifestyle they can't support without outside assistance? And if that's the case, isn't it better to break them the habit sooner rather than later, when it all crashes down and the rest of us have to pick up the pieces?

>>1560574
>this would effectively legislate every payday lender out of business
Maybe we could allot some of the welfare money to the industry (that way no one pays more for this shit). You could have subsidies that make the margins fatter, while ensuring those who use them get mandatory assistance (non-financial) from the state.

I've never gotten Payday loans

Let's say they gave me 4k

Can't I just pay it back next week + interest and be over with it?

Or is there a twist?

>>1560628
The twist is youre poor and wont have that much money next week

>>1560628

Yes you can. Only thing is that the interest will be quite high.

Thing is tho is that most people that get payday loans won't pay it all off the next week. Because they have no impulse control and make terrible decisions.

>>1560615
If they are about to have their power cut off and there is a 75 dollar fee for it to be turned back on then it is a no brainier for them to get the 300 dollar loan so that they have to payback 350 because they keep their power on and only have to payback 50 more dollars.

>>1560645

Exactly. And I'm sure a small percentage of people use payday loans like this.

>>1560645
I guess I'd borrow $75 from a friend (or friends) or my family before I'd shell out $125 for a $75 fee.
Maybe they're not bright enough to do that, but that still doesn't make payday loan places necessary.
You might as well argue that if they gambled that money away too, we should finance their stupidity in some other fashion.

>>1560655
A lot of the time the people go to a payday loan company instead of a friend or family member to avoid embarrassment.

>>1560662

Or because their family/friends don't trust them to pay the loan back :^)

>>1560662
>>1560665
I know why they do it, but that's not the point.
It's like saying casinos should hand out markers to poor people, because they're too embarrassed to borrow money from their family to gamble with.
Or if that sounds too harsh, that if they blow their money on dumb shit (as you stated they're likely to do) meaning they can't meet their necessary obligations (like your example of power bills), that somehow necessitates a business that helps them go even further in to debt.
That's really the last thing they, or any of us, needs.

>>1560683

How is it "our" problem? If the person goes into debt with a payday loan company and can't pay back then the loan company eats it. If you don't wanna be involved then don't buy stock in a payday loan company.

Also outlawing payday loans won't make them go away. It's just like drugs. You'll just push it underground and violent loansharks will lend them the money for even higher interest rates then break the legs if they don't pay.

>>1560655
>why dont poor people just borrow money from their mom?
Gee i dont know. Guess theyre all just stupid

>>1560693
>How is it "our" problem?
Because they eventually end up needing assistance of some sort, food stamps, subsidized housing, welfare, etc. That's why.
And the more of them there are, the more money the programs need to operate, and the more the politicians drive up taxes to pay for that shit.
Payday loan places just accelerate the process.

>>1560707
>Because they eventually end up needing assistance of some sort, food stamps, subsidized housing, welfare, etc.
As if these people aren't already on those things.

>>1560707
You do realize it's the people ALREADY on those programs that use payday loans, right? It isn't like someone with a decent job who is good with money goes out and gets a loan at 175% with $1,000 in finance charges and all of a sudden needs food stamps.

>>1559869
>Is there any downside to the payday loan industry?

>>1560007
>POV owner

Yeah, the fact that your business is banking on the dregs of society actually acting responsible and paying back their loans to you. Don't hold your breath.

Lot of payday loan places don't even attempt to collect on small ones. I know a couple of people that have scammed a few grand out of them because of this.

>Freeze credit
>Take out a bunch of payday loans from different companies
>Never pay them back

Have to watch out because some of the payday places are just different brands under an umbrella of a handful of different mega corps, and they'll refuse to give you anything, or potentially try and keep you around for a minute or two while the cops show up, but it can be done.

Never bothered with it myself, but I can see how it would work for a few hundred bucks. Especially if you are a recent victim of identity theft.

>>1560713
>>1560717
So we should make it worse for them?
Help them along on their downward spiral?
How come we don't allow places to charge 200%? Your logic works for that argument too. Believe me, there are dumbfucks who would pay it.

>>1560730
They are not being forced to get the loan and if these people do not get the money then how are they going to put food on the table or pay for their power bill in between pay checks.

>>1560738
>how are they going to put food on the table or pay for their power bill in between pay checks
By being smarter with their money maybe?
Look, this is like saying that we should give carjackers free cars, because otherwise, they'll jack them from honest people. That's true, some will. But it doesn't prompt us to give away free cars.
There are people payday loan places won't even lend to. How do they pay their bills? Is it fair they have no one to borrow from?
All I'm saying is, there are people who find themselves in those situations with no recourse all the time, and it doesn't automatically mean we "have to" provide some sort of solution to all their problems.
What's more, this isn't really "helping" people anymore than giving a gambler money on credit, or giving a junkie smack does. It just prolongs the problem, it doesn't solve it.
Would you really make the same argument for these cases? "This guy made poor decisions gambling, how will he keep the power on if we don't give him a marker to get back in the black"?
Or, "This guy made poor decisions being a junkie, how will he fight off his crushing withdrawal symptoms if we don't give him more heroin?"

>>1560707

They'll probably already be collecting welfare:

If they have money they won't be using payday loans.
If they have zero money they'll already be on welfare
If they have a job then a payday loan isn't going to make them lose that job
If they don't have a job they'll already be on the doe

etc etc

>>1560730

If legit businesses don't then loansharks will. And loansharks are far far worse.

You can't save stupid people from their stupidity.

>Government keeps rates low and taxes business
>Taxes given to poor fucks in welfare
>Poor fucks give money back to business in finance charges and interest

It's the liberal trickle down. We should make sure everyone qualifies for mortgages too what could go wrong?

>>1560628
First off, 4k is an amount of money that the average payday loan customer doesn't see in their fucking lifetime. So let's assume we're talking about 300 instead.

Payday loans are designed to bridge a gap until your next paycheck. But this is an unrealistic assumption. If there was a sudden expense or if running expenses just tallied up too high - why should the next pay check miraculously fix everything? If they made that much money, they wouldn't have run out halfway through the month in the first place.

So the twist is, that it further drains your already poor liquidity which usually leads to a vicious cycle. Let's say you make 600 bucks a month. Rent and utilities are 300 bucks. So if you took out a 250 payday loan the previous month you have to repay it with your paycheck. You repay 300 bucks including fees and interest and end up with 300 bucks of your pay check which immediately go to rent and utilities. But what are you gonna spend for the rest of the month? So you basically turn around and immediately take out a 250 buck payday loan again.

If you can keep it sustainable, you're basically paying 50 bucks a month for nothing (technically for a few days of liquidity - but the point is a one time payment of 250 bucks would break the cycle and allow you to make a profit of 50 bucks a month forever). But most people can't keep it sustainable. So they repay 250 at 300 and take out 300. Then they repay 300 at 360 and take out 360, etc, etc.

>>1560655
Are maybe they don't have rich mommy or daddy to bail them out.

For a business board people are shockingly ignorant to the reality of our economy

>>1561213

That would imply this is a business board and not a get rich quick scheme board.

>>1561076
This is what normal people do with credit cards all the time. Poor and dumb people don't qualify for cards so they pay higher rates at loan places. Where is the problem again?

Jon Oliver did a piece on this because he's a liberal cuck. To sum it up, literally do anything else.

Poor people get love because it's popular. Same as how rich people get hate because it's popular even though one rich person is more valuable than ten poor people... Ironically, ten poor people are just dangerous in general. They're just leeches.

I have no sympathy for the poor and I never will. Why? Because I've seen it first hand and I know they're bullshitting. People are poor because of themselves. That shouldn't be rewarded. This obviously excludes poor people of valid reasons like a mental disorder such as schizophrenia.

Not only is it their fault, but they're arrogant and pretentious about it too. Like they deserve it. Little fucking children. Like that autist that's crying about making tires for 19 an hour. I'm sure the thread is up still.

You might say how is it their fault? Well, I'll tell you how. Didn't pay attention in school, hung around the wrong crowd to fit in, wasted time, dropped out because they're going to be rich, never had discipline or work ethic, worked minimum wage jobs because of course you do... Somehow got lucky and got a job to begin with... YOLO'd their income instead of saving it buying stupid shit like an iPhone in order to impress their peers and seem popular... Showing no maturity. Etc etc... You get the idea.

So, no there aren't any downsides. These children need their hands held because they don't know how to be adults. Good maybe they'll learn. Maybe not. Maybe they'll commit suicide and stop being leeches.

Now, I know a liberal might be in here ready to complain, but look... You're an adult. It's survival of the fittest as it's been since the start of time. Except now you literally have no excuse. Knowledge is freely available. There's no pity if you choose to fail. Yes, choose. Or at least don't be mad at anyone else for your failure, you cuck.

>>1561264
Did I claim there was a problem? That's just the twist that guy was asking for. He's having the wrong impression about the kind of people who use payday loans.

If you want to look for a problem specifically, the biggest may be that the rates are obscenely high. Those don't matter to the shitheads who never repay anyway, but they hit the relatively honest people who do pay off their payday loans (and arguably deserve better credit and better rates). So payday loans enable lazy asshole scammers and actively hinder hardworking people with bad credit who need financing but want to pay it off. It's a hamster wheel that hits the most undeserving people among the poor the hardest. I don't claim to have a better solution, btw.

>>1561275
You have some very valid points, but I don't agree with your simplistic assessment of guilt. If it really were everybody's individual responsibilities what becomes of them, why do kids from rich families tend to stay well educated / rich and kids from poor families tend to stay uneducated / poor? You'd assume that there's a certain percentage of people who are made to succeed and you'd expect them to be evenly distributed. But they are not.

I think it's fairly clear that you have to consider the surroundings. If your parents *give* you a proper upbringing, work ethic and some starting capital you are much much more likely to succeed than when your parents neglect you. But how is any of this your fault? It's partly chance into which environment you're born and partly the fault of other people.

I'm not advocating for free handouts or redistribution of wealth on a large scale. Heavens no! But we should recognize that poor people have a much harder time clawing their way to success and that they should receive support on their way. I have no idea how to properly compensate for shitty parents, shitty upbringing, shitty genetics and lack of wealth, but education's definitely the key. Work ethic, fiscal responsibility and impulse control can be taught, both to childen and adults. I think it's not enough to say "read up about it online" because learning work ethic on your own would require a certain work ethic in the first place.

>>1560543
Arkansas issued a cap for payday lenders and ended up having trouble with loansharks for the first time since prohibition ended.

As insane as the payday loan rates seem, they are rates based on actual risk, so forcing them down only means they will stick to more credit worthy borrowers (relatively speaking)

On the industry it's self, I have a mixed view. I don't think something should be illegal just because stupid people abuse it. On the other hand we must not kid ourselves about the utility of the product. You would have to search long and hard to find a single beneficial use of a payday loan. A few years ago I read a report that states 60 percent of payday loan borrowers that year would pay a payday loan off with another payday loan. I don't think that should make it illegal, but their are many in our government who do and it's a matter of time before payday lenders get the shit regulated out of them. .gov has been busy with home loan regs and investment company regs for the last few years, but that shit is nearing it's final form and eventually they will get to low tier stuff like this.

In addition to the risky barrowers, you have enhanced regulation risk.

>>1560502

> Granted, most of these morons could solve their money problems by knowing how to manage their finances, but it's pretty hard to legislate retarded and unnecessary purchases out of existence.

Nice bubble there. Can see you've never been through the struggle. How does it feel you cuck? Enjoying that baby powder? Maybe a wipe on your tush to clean up your shit stains?

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>>1561213
>rich mommy or daddy
>$75
my sides

>>1561452

Regulate what exactly? Since when did the gov regulate anything to benefit the people, besides after the great depression? They'll never regulate such an industry. It keeps people poor and keeps people in the forever loop that is poverty.

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>>1561513
Just got an email yesterday that noted the "payday" lead vendors are going to be receiving scrunity just like lenders and the FTC is going to be cracking down now or soon.

Not in that industry at the moment but still keep up on some of it

>>1561486
>Can see you've never been through the struggle.

3/10

Regardless, when I was trying to find the right tech gig, know what I did? Looked up the 60 most popular cocktails, made flashcards of their names/ingredients, studied for a couple days, and found myself a bartending gig. No benefits, and I didn't love it, but I made better money in tips then than I do in tech now.

>>1561275

S A V A G E

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>>1561296

Well the "honest" ones can't be that honest because they shit have shit credit which is why they can't get a credit card like a normal person.

>>1561323

Wouldn't it be more effective to cut to the chase and educate people on how to be good parents?

Shouldnt government police thoughts?

Some crimes could probably be prevented if we monitored people's eye movement in public places. Also we'll add more welfare programs to control people who don't handle adult responsibilities well like paying off debt or parenting.

Hey maybe it'll be better if the government just controlled everything for everyone? To help them