>tfw there are no moral/ethical ways to become rich >tfw

>>1550862

>You can live with your money, toys, and hot women all day though

>>1550862
try r9k

You're better off rich and guilty than poor and innocent.

>>1550888
And why do you think so?

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>>1550888
I don't know if this is true (for me) but I'd like to try it.

>>1550862
It's not moral or ethical to inherit money or win the lottery?
What about an athletic or entertainment career?
Neurosurgeon?

>>1550911
>inherit money or win the lottery
Neither of these are things I can consciously choose to do to become rich.

>athletes
It's literally impossible to compete on a professional level in any sport without taking steroids or other unnatural performance enhancing drugs. Then there's also the fact that much of your income comes from the sponsoring products you don't actually use or give a shit about.

>entertainers
The only way to become a successful one is by embracing commercialism and contributing to the continued destruction of culture. When was the last time you saw a wealthy artist of any art form that had any integrity?

>neurosurgeons
What about the fact that your high salary is a key contributor to the extremely high cost of healthcare that puts a financial strain on an ever-growing class of people, as well as on taxpayers in general. Doesn't seem like a particularly moral or ethical industry to want to participate in.

>>1550967
>Neither of these are things I can consciously choose to do
That wasn't specified

>It's literally impossible to compete on a professional level in any sport without taking steroids
Untrue

>contributing to the continued destruction of culture
Now you're just making shit up.

Why don't you just admit that your original premise was poorly thought out, and that there are many examples that contradict it?

>>1550967
>The only way to become a successful one is by embracing commercialism and contributing to the continued destruction of culture
Nigga what the fuck are you talking about
Success in entertainment is pure luck but you don't have to be a sellout, it just helps.

>>1550994
>Why don't you just admit that your original premise was poorly thought out, and that there are many examples that contradict it?
Uh because it wasn't? Please name even one example.

>>1551000
Sure, it's (((pure luck)))

>>1551008
>even one example
Your uncle wins the lottery, dies, and leaves you the money.
Please explain how this isn't moral or ethical.

>>1551013
That isn't unethical or immoral, but it's also not an actual way to make money yourself. That's just something random that could happen to you in a 1 in 8 trillion chance or whatever. But even in your example, there would most likely be issues of morality within your own family if he left it ALL to you and didn't share it with anybody else in the family.

>>1551008
Most entertainers aren't even Jewish unless you're looking exclusively at comedians.
And success in new media (Youtube, indie games, webcomics, whatever Welcome to Night Vale is) has nothing at all to do with (((executives))).

>>1551026
You could play the lottery yourself and win, thus eliminating your family rationale, along with it not being a way you did it yourself.
Your argument fails.

lol stay cucked

>>1551028
So you actually believe that somebody can hold on to all of their artistic integrity and still become wealthy?

>>1551030
I think you're completely missing the point here. Gambling isn't something you do to deliberately make money. That's just playing a game.

>>1551049
>you're completely missing the point here
No, it's you who's missing the point. Namely, that your original statement is false.

>there are no moral/ethical ways to become rich

As you already admitted, playing/winning the lottery is not immoral or unethical. Therefore, your statement is false. q.e.d.

>>1551062
Guess I'm not autistic enough to think that you would interpret the sentence that way. I think it was pretty obvious that I was talking about actually making money yourself.

>>1551077
>I was talking about actually making money yourself.
Then you should have specified.
And there are plenty of ways to disprove that statement as well.
In fact, I'm sure you can think of several professions that have very large salaries, none of which are immoral or unethical, but it's now clear you're really just here to wallow in self pity and expect others to share your delusional misery.

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wagie fuck

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mfw I didn't win the Eurojackpot tonight

>>1551049
>So you actually believe that somebody can hold on to all of their artistic integrity and still become wealthy?
Yes.
Red, the creator of Terraria, became very wealthy just by creating and releasing the game.
He has also yet to sell out. He is working on a side game and a sequel but he also hired a team to continue producing free content updates for the original.

Toby made tons of money on Undertale even before he started selling merch, and he's made it clear that he's never going to create a sequel or prequel.

Andrew Hussie and Notch didn't sell out until after they became rich.

>>1550994
>Untrue
its true you retard

>>1551000
of course you have to be a sellout

to get rich you need to pander for the big audiences, therefore you need to sell out by default

rich and famous = contributor to the normie disgusting cluture

>>1551115
those are outliers

specially in music its pretty impossible to not sell out

>>1551119
It's true up to a point
but I guess it's still better than being poor

I don't know though I've never been famous or rich

:,(((

>>1551118
Yeah, steroids killed Arnold Palmer.

>>1550862
Morality/ethics are literally a social construct designed to keep the less woke like you from acquiring wealth (among other things). Stay ignorant while I follow my wallet to the next tropical paradise so I can follow my dick into the next bikini

>>1550862
its called working hard and working smart

>>1551127
>>1551119
It's really hard in music because music is probably the most corporate form of entertainment.
The Internet makes it possible, though, and it also makes it possible to succeed in other areas like webcomics and video games just by producing a quality product.

>>1551137
What are you doing? How did you start? Where did you learn how to bypass the laws?

/I'm a guy with big ambitions who just recently realized what you said./

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>>1551137
>follow my dick into the next bikini

lol'd

>>1551130
just lol at comparing old ass athletes to 2016 super competitive environment

>>1551149
he is roleplaying

Suit yourself retard, less competition for me!

>>1551174
Great comeback, jackass.

>>1550862

Become rich through questionable means. Make sure you take the money from the rich. Found Companies to create jobs and give back money to charity.
You might lose your soul but you could make this world a better place.

>>1550862
>investing
>immoral
>that feel when to smart to be a fag like OP

>>1550862
>start a business
>fulfill a need
>sell it to a larger company private equity
Bing bang boom you're rich, and didn't step on many toes to get there.

What about an educational product on vegan nutrition, OP?

>>1552122
He's gonna find a reason why investing is unethical. Bottom line is, making money is unethical.
OP doesn't want to be rich and has already damned himself to a life of mediocrity. He misunderstands the game. In order to win, you have to beat others.
OP is the type who gets beaten.

>>1552125

Let me share my own experience. I absolutely loathe work. I become NEET for a long time, but a year or two back, Tony Abbott brought in 'work for the dole'.

I found myself being forced to work for practically less than minimum wage (working 2 days a week for the full workday, only getting the same Centrelink payment).

That job involved working in a warehouse, being bossed around by some people who weren't particularly intelligent or sensitive. The 'office' part of the warehouse was staffed entirely by women.

This "charity" was literally using government-provided labour, to process other people's rubbish, in order to sell it. If you really looked at how the charity worked, it wasn't producing anything of value, even of social value - it exists primarily to benefit those who were paid fulltime empoyees. Middle-aged women, who benefit from 'wage gap' activism, while being married to other men who earn money.

I realised in that moment that any "morality" I held was absurd. What's the point of me being unwilling to lie on a resume, or to sell products to people who probably don't need those products... when all that happens is my consciousness and sensitivity end up being subordinated to other people who DO NOT CARE about those things.

The OP, if he wasn't want to hurt others, could find a way to earn money without a high degree of harm to others, I'm sure. In turn, he could live a frugal life and help lift others up. In turn, those people could end up inventing something that actually contributes to wealth, and to poor people's ability to get access to wealth.

>>1550967
>When was the last time you saw a wealthy artist of any art form that had any integrity?
Calvin Harris makes about 65 millions a year and he's always produced cheesy pop music.
There are many like him.
Just because someone becomes successful by doing something that's shit and mainstream it doesn't mean they're doing it for the money and they don't like doing it.

>>1551026
You can always split the money with your family yourself if you wish.

>>1551127
>>1551142
It depends on the genre.
Mainstream "corporate-controlled" genres such as pop, hip-hop, etc are driven by sales so only the most marketable end up making millions.
"Indie" genres on the other hand are mostly just people making music while being poor, with no realistic chance of getting rich, until their popularity increases (either their genre becomes popular and they end up riding the wave, or they become the biggest act in their relatively small niche) and they end up making millions by doing the same thing they've always made.
Every time a new underground genre or subgenre becomes popular, it's a simoilar story.

Two guys in my city opened an ice-cream shop and were very popular because it tasted very good, so they opened another store, then another, until they started opening them in other cities around the country.
FFW a few years later, they're opening stores all over the world, and only after becoming wealthy, they sold the company IIRC for a 9 figure amount.
Look up Grom.

There are tons of similar businesses making huge amounts of money.
Where's the immorality in that?

>>1552159

Ask the cows producing the milk.

Also, selling out isn't immoral at all.
Not everybody can have patrician taste in everything.
There has to be someone providing what the pleb masses are demanding.

Would you call a chef sellout because he doesn't exclisibely cooks his personal favourite foods in his restaurant and instead serves what people want to eat?

Going back to the music industry, since most musicians can't earn enough with their music, they have to work a day job to be able to eat, so they can't make music full-time, go on a tour, etc.
By "selling out" and making a watered down version of their music, they can devote their life to their art and make their true art in private, or perhaps start publishing it after their popularity has gained enough momentum (or even under a separate name).

>>1552166
Are you implying people in the dairy, or any animal food industry can't live with themselves because they've made food from animals?

Nobody but hardcore vegans think like that.

Is this bait?
Looks like it, but you've mentioned vegan stuff before so I'm not sure.

>>1552180

I'm not claiming that those in the industry necessarily feel bad.

The OP is concerned with hurting others in the process of making money, and I'm pointing out that your Gelato example does hurt others in a relatively direct way.

I don't think it's entirely avoidable to have no impact, but marketing Gelato (much of which contains milk) means more cows living in torture.

>>1552184
>I don't think it's entirely avoidable to have no impact, but marketing Gelato (much of which contains milk) means more cows living in torture.
Also more people eating icecream, which could contribute to the obesity epidemic.

>>1550862
Well, some have argued that not only are there ethical ways to become rich but that you actually have a duty to become rich if you want to do the best for society.
Look up effective altruism, it may well convince you.

>>1552184
>>1552189
These are all arbitrary worries that you nitpicked because you want to find something to worry about.
99.999% of people don't feel bad about those things, and if you want to spend your life worrying about the extremely small effect that each and every one of your actions have on the world, that's your choice.
Just keep in mind that it's not realistic to expect everyone else to care about those things enough to not take a business opportunity because of their infinitesimal consequences.

It wouldn't be my fault if people can't stop eating ice cream (if there wasn't any Grom they would eat another brand, since the obesity epidemic stems from a cultural and a mindset problem, not because there's too much ice cream). It's not like I'd be forcing them to eat it.
Here in Italy there's a gelateria every 10 feet and we don't have a huge obesity problem.
And nobody cares about cows. Not even the cows themselves.

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>Morality
>mfw

Morality is subjective and arbitrary.

You can reason that making money is moral/ethical or not as you like. What is important is that you thought it through and you decided that's how it is for you.

Do you want to be rich and happy about it? Yes you can do that.
Do you want to be poor and happy about it? Yes you can do that.

What matters is that you decide what you think is right or wrong and live according to that, we're all gonna be dead in the end anyways, just make sure you have a smile on your face when the time comes.
By the way, this totally /r9k/ stuff.

>>1552184.
>>1552180
Vegan detected.
Get out, your kind is unwelcome here.

>>1552440
Why did you quote me?
I was arguing against the vegan. I'm not one myself.

>>1551465
its true faggot

>>1552779
It's not true, idiot.

My family used to have money when I was younger & that helped me get through a couple years of college, but now I work a dead end job & can't afford shit.

That said, as long as you're not just straight up robbing your fellow man (legally or illegally), I have absolutely NOTHING against how anybody gets their money nowadays. We live in a world where your status & sense of freedom depends on your financial standing. Do whatever you gotta do to get some money, THEN worry about doing whatever it is in life that makes you happy. People say money can't buy happiness & thats bullshit. Those people either have no souls or haven't accumulated enough money. I know lots of rich people & yeah their lives aren't void of problems, BUT they have such an easier time living, that's for sure.

>>1553373
>People say money can't buy happiness & thats bullshit
>they have such an easier time living
You're conflating two things.
The second one is true, the first, not so much.
No one would dispute it's easier for them, but that's not happiness.
Look at it this way:
If you're some socially awkward, fat, repellant (insert adjective) loser, do you really think everything magically changes when you say, win the lottery?
The money won't make you less awkward, maybe just more pretentious and annoying.
The money won't make you thin, only discipline and a healthy diet will do that.
The money won't make you less repellant, in fact it will probably make you more so.
In fact, anything the money "changes" will be superficial. Attracting superficial people to yourself will ultimately leave you miserable, and likely poorer as well.
What's worse, you will see it coming, as you probably realize genuine people won't do a 180 once you have money, thus alerting you to the fact that you're being used.

>>1550967
>What about the fact that your high salary is a key contributor to the extremely high cost of healthcare that puts a financial strain on an ever-growing class of people, as well as on taxpayers in general. Doesn't seem like a particularly moral or ethical industry to want to participate in.
You're a fool if you believe their salaries are the reason healthcare is in its current state

>>1553397
Money doesn't necessarily buy happiness, but it buys options.
It's up to you to use those options wisely to increase your happiness and quality of life.

I would also argue that money can't buy ABSOLUTE happiness, but a finite amount of it.
In other words, money doesn't make you happy, but only happier.
If you have problems that aren't money-related, would you be happier having them on top of being poor, or having them while also being wealthy (which would make them significantly easier to fix)?

>>1553448
>which would make them significantly easier to fix
Unless you're talking about superficial problems (I need lipo, I have no car, etc.), it won't fix them, as stated.
And you'll most likely feel even worse than before, as now you're attempting to mingle with people who can't stand you anyway, despite the fact that you have a lot of money.
In other words, having money will only make you more depressed about the fact that it isn't the solution to your personal problems.
Would you feel happier if you're poor and people treat you like shit, or when you have just as much (or more) money than them, and they STILL treat you like shit?
Because I think I'd be contemplating suicide at that point.

>>1550862
>tfw you almost run out of excuses for your own incompetence but remembered you can pretend that your failure is in fact you taking the moral high road
I know that fucking feel

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Half of the swiss are millionaires.

And it's not because of that jew gold meme or international dictators money that stay in private banks.

It's because of protestantism ethic still deeply rooted, work hard and live humble.

Pic is previous swiss president going to work.

>>1550862
just buy POTCOIN it's moral and ethical

>>1553519
>Half of the swiss are millionaires.
and so are half the british because their shit 1 bedroom house is valued at 750,000
>jew gold
no
> international dictators money that stay in private banks
actually yes, switzerland was poor before the 70s and things certainly went well because of banking
>protestantism ethic
good one

>>1553459
>Unless you're talking about superficial problems (I need lipo, I have no car, etc.), it won't fix them, as stated.
I disagree.
Obviously some problems are impossible to fix even with money, but most of them (especially those you listed) are things you can easily fix or improve with money, simply by hiring the right people and/or by being able to focus on them and doing something that would reduce the problem.
A poor person can't even think about solving some of those problem because it requires the freedom that you get with the time and money that rich people have.

As I said, it's a matter of how you choose to spend that money, so if you're retarded you'll still pay the price of your retardation, but if you're smart, you can easily overturn your situation in most cases (or at least improve it).
Also, even if you can't fix those problems, money gives you the option of hedonism, that while it won't be fullfilling, it's a nice distraction to an otherwise painful existance.

>In other words, having money will only make you more depressed about the fact that it isn't the solution to your personal problems.
I think that's just if when you're poor you expect money to fix everything automatically and you're dissppointed it's not what you expected.
Most people don't feel like that, so it won't be a problem.

>Would you feel happier if you're poor and people treat you like shit, or when you have just as much (or more) money than them, and they STILL treat you like shit?
>Because I think I'd be contemplating suicide at that point.
That's just retarded.
Maybe you'd contemplate suicide because for some reason the thought that money will fix everything is all that matters to you.
I would see money as what it is, which is an improvement over my previous situation.

Even if you win the lottery and still have all the old problems and everyone hates you, unless you start doing very stupid stuff with the money, the only change that happened in your life is a positive one.

>>1553755
>A poor person can't even think about solving some of those problem
Sounds like that's falling into the exact trap I described.
Personal shortcomings are fixable, and you don't need money to do it. However, most people lack the drive and discipline to fix these things, so they convince themselves that money is the only answer, and they "don't have the time" to do it.
This is really just procrastination, because it's easier to make the hard work part dependent on a vast sum of money, one they will (likely) never acquire.
So it never gets done, but it's "not their fault".

>Most people don't feel like that
If you say so. I've met tons of them, though.

>That's just retarded
See above.
And reference lottery winners to see what dramatic positive improvements they made in their lives. The ones that are still alive, that is.

>>1550894

It's an immortal technique song lyric.

>>1552466
I mislclicked. I meant to hit >>1552166

>>1552166
go fuck yourself, pro-b8er

>>1554258
Lottery winners are miserable because only retards buy lottery tickets.

>>1554300
Which underscores my point.
Money doesn't fix stupid, so it's no surprise most of those people end up broke again, or dead.

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>>1554258
>Personal shortcomings are fixable, and you don't need money to do it. However, most people lack the drive and discipline to fix these things, so they convince themselves that money is the only answer, and they "don't have the time" to do it.
>This is really just procrastination, because it's easier to make the hard work part dependent on a vast sum of money, one they will (likely) never acquire.
>So it never gets done, but it's "not their fault".
Not all poor people are lazy welfare queens. A lot of them (probably the majority) spend all day between work, family, various errands, etc. and would need to give up one of these things in order to start working on their shortcomings.
I agree that people who expect money to automatically fix their problems aren't going to improve on these things even with money, but their situation would only improve, since it would ad the benefit of not having to worry about all those stressful problems caused solely and directly by not having money.

>If you say so. I've met tons of them, though.
Maybe where you come from (or with the kind of people you meet and hang out with) it's a common feeling, and also it's an entirely subjective prediction that may or may not come true, since you don't exactly know how you'll feel with a ton of money until you actually have it.

>And reference lottery winners to see what dramatic positive improvements they made in their lives. The ones that are still alive, that is.
>Money doesn't fix stupid, so it's no surprise most of those people end up broke again, or dead.
I agree.
That's just an exception though.
Windfall money into retarded people's hands will likely be mismanaged, and therefore will end up giving them pain, mostly because they end up losing it, getting into debt, etc. which are all problems caused by the lack of money.
They sure are happy while they have it, and the problems start when they lose it.
People who don't lose the money usually end up loving the money. Pic related.

>>1554362
>Not all poor people are lazy welfare queens
I never said that they were.

>spend all day between work, family, various errands, etc.
That's just an excuse for not bettering themselves. And if they honestly don't have time for anything but the things you mentioned, it only proves that they made those things their priority. If they really cared about self-improvement, they never would've involved themselves in obligations that require all their time.

>Maybe where you come from
Maybe you need to get out more.

>Windfall money into retarded people's hands will likely be mismanaged,
Most people are morons, relatively speaking. And that's why getting money doesn't change things for them as much as they hope. It may make them feel happy temporarily, but eventually they'll blow it on dumb shit and end up as poor as they were before.

>>1550967
What about the fact that your high salary is a key contributor to the extremely high cost of healthcare that puts a financial strain on an ever-growing class of people, as well as on taxpayers in general. Doesn't seem like a particularly moral or ethical industry to want to participate in.

LOL
I'd prefer my professionals - dentists and doctors are paid well so that they value their jobs and have an incentive to perform well.

Is producing VR/regular porn immoral or unethical? There is a killing if you do it right.

And if it is why should I care? I'm a sexual person who's into the kink of producing visual fantasy

>>1551118
>being this retarded

making money off stocks is fine life is a game

>>1554476
>I never said that they were.
You implied it when you said that they can just start spending time on working on themselves, which is impossible for poor people that work because there's physically no time for that.

>That's just an excuse for not bettering themselves. And if they honestly don't have time for anything but the things you mentioned, it only proves that they made those things their priority. If they really cared about self-improvement, they never would've involved themselves in obligations that require all their time.
>Why can't poor people just stop being poor?
Most of the time they don't have a choice. If they don't dedicate time doin those things they starve.

>Most people are morons, relatively speaking. And that's why getting money doesn't change things for them as much as they hope. It may make them feel happy temporarily, but eventually they'll blow it on dumb shit and end up as poor as they were before.
As I said, that only lowers the quality of life the moment the money dries up. Up until then, the money actually improves the quality of their lives. Also you're moving the goalpost.

>>1554992
>is producing porn immoral
Is this something that really needs to be answered? If it is, then I seriously fear for the human race.

>>1555522
>which is impossible for poor people
No it isn't. The ones that won't are lazy.
I don't know where you got "welfare queens" from.

>If they don't dedicate time doin those things they starve
Yeah, nobody put a gun to their head and made them get married, have kids, play vidya, etc.

>Up until then, the money actually improves the quality of their lives
It's you who's moving the goal post. You said it was bullshit that money can't buy happiness. Then you picked that goalpost right up and moved on to "absolute happiness", which no one can argue against.

>>1550994
Steroid use is not unethical. Lying about it is.

>>1555853
>No it isn't. The ones that won't are lazy.
Confirmed for knowing nothing about poor people.
Obviously some are lazy, but a shitton of them don't spend their day watching TV.

>I don't know where you got "welfare queens" from.
I didn't say you talked about welfare queens. It was a hyperbole that means "not all poors are unemployed and have a lot of time", because most of them actually works a huge part of the day.

>Yeah, nobody put a gun to their head and made them get married, have kids, play vidya, etc.
I understand that many of them might have a difficult life because of their past decisions (or of those around them), but nobody choses to be a fuckup. It's easy to make all the good decisions when you grow up in a certain environment that promotes them and gives you good opportunities, but it's way harder for people who don't know anything but poverty and grow up in decadent places to be the same upstanding people that they would have been fi they grew up poor.
Take two identical newborn twins and give them to two different families. One in a nice upper-middle class enicronment, and the other in the ghetto. Do you think they will both take the same decisions?

1/2

>>1555853
>>1556045
>It's you who's moving the goal post. You said it was bullshit that money can't buy happiness. Then you picked that goalpost right up and moved on to "absolute happiness", which no one can argue against.
Wut?
I literally said in my first post that I don't think money can buy complete happiness (making you generally happy), but can buy some of it, therefore making your life at least a bit better.
Never changed my argument. Only added my perspective to the discussion. That's not what moving the goalpost means.
You, on the other hand, started by saying that money won't make you happy because it will never fix the problems you had before (and that you'll get an existential crisis because you expected money to make you loved and got disappointed), and now you're saying that idiots will end up losing the money anyway, so money doesn't buy happiness.
That's precisely what moving the goalpost means.
You changed your argument from one thing to another because you realizer how retarded it was.

Don't worry, you're anonymous here. If you make a fool of yourself there won't be ripercussions on your personal life.

2/2

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>>1556051
>middle class enicronment
>you realizer how retarded it was
>there won't be ripercussions

My sides.

>>1556154
mine too

>>1556154
Sorry.
English isn't my native language and I typed it perhaps too quickly without proofreading.

Since all you responded to were my typos and spelling mistakes, I'll assume you gave up on arguing the points we were talking about, am I correct?

>>1555853
>lazy
Cope. We live in a deterministic reality so it's not my fault i was born with lazy genetics.

>>1555791
How is producing porn immoral? Are you sexually repressed?

>>1557800
>how is exploiting young vulnerable women for their good looks and wrecking them for life immoral

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>Come to /biz/ from /fit/ for a change of pace
>The "tfw too intelligent to lift" meme finds a way to follow me here

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>>1550862
The strong take from the weak, but the smart take from the strong.

If we are all one with the universe is it really stealing?
Are we not just taking what is already ours?
Why not enjoy it while you can in this life?
Surely you will pay back your debt in the next.

>>1557842
>how is empowering young and active women by the reappropriation of their bodies and sexualities immoralN

>>1557842
>>1557842
>>1557842
You understand that porn doesn't make much money nowadays, so girls that do it probably have a kink for it. Or are exhibitionists or get off on the fame.

Plus they aren't vulnerable. They're legal adults who choose to do it. And many women want fame. They go to LA, can't afford rent and want to live in luxury. So some do porn.

And if you look at society nowadays, less people judge or care. Men are desperate enough they will marry or settle down with a pornstar. Women almost can't lose

And porn is a nice way to sleep with girls who wouldn't have otherwise. And aren't low enough to do regular prostitution. Also is it any less immoral than people who profit off products that harm the environment and exploit third world people. Porn is much ethical than Apple. Who uses slave labor and minierals acquired through exploitation. While a lot of porn is just sexually open people banging for money consensually

>>1558608
>And aren't low enough to do regular prostitution
AFAIK a good chunk of the successful pornstars also escort on the side and use their fame to charge way more that usual.

A bit like musicians who give away their music (or sell it for cheap) because the popularity that results from that allows them to charge more at their live shows.