why do the Chinese work themselves to death for so fucking little?

>>1443338

Because it's better than working yourself to death even faster, for even less, on a farm in Buttfuck nowhere.

>>1443357
Why do things have to be this way?

Why sell out your citizens for pennies?

>>1443338
China is a notoriously corrupt country and the factory owners just pay off the government to not pass worker safety reform. It's actually how ironic how not communist China is. They're basically common fascists at this point.

>>1443363
It wasn't communist even when Mao was in power. The state forced you to work in communes, took away the majority of your earnings, and rationed everything incorrectly. It was broken, inefficient, and corrupt from the onset.

>>1443338
Have you ever been to China? China is slowly becoming modernized. People are purchasing iphones, watching tv, and demanding better working conditions/wages.

>>1443392

>t.tourist

They live middle class lives in China. Cost of living their is far lower than here, a job working in a factory assembly line pays far better than your average job.

Source: Lived in China til I was 28

>>1443363
Which is why wages have risen faster than productivity for 7 years now?

>>1443338
They don't. An average Chinese workweek is unironically less than your average Americans.

>>1443417
>An average Chinese workweek is unironically less than your average Americans

how many hours per week?
i'm not that poster btw, i'm just curious

>>1443374

That is called "Comunism"

>>1443408
Lol, why did you leave China then?

>>1443419
https://www.theguardian.com/world/2015/oct/06/how-hard-does-china-work

I was slightly wrong. It's 2000 versus 1800 in America as of 2012 numbers.

>>1443338
Because it's that, or NOT work, and fucking starve to death on the streets.

>>1443426
I never said China was better than developed nations retard. I'm simply pointing out manufacturing jobs are the best thing to happen to China in recent history and it's very competitive to get a job in the industry.

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Western economies have deteriorated to such a point where most young Chinese people are now better off than most western millennials, nobody believes it though because they still think China is at a 1990 level of development

It's gotten to the point where middle class Chinese people can straight up buy western houses in cash, while the western "middle" class would have to take out a 40 year mortgage

If westerners truly realized how bad globalization has destroyed their future there would be a revolution tomorrow

It's good for them and good for us. Mutually beneficial, the heart of capitalism. Read factory girls by Leslie Chang for some perspective. Working at a factory is awesome compared to living in the backwards countryside that is still stuck in the 60s maoist China.

>>1443338
I assume you were born in USA-Europe?

The values of personal identity/freedom do not exist in China. While you were raised to believe you can become whatever you want as long you work hard for it (or cry-bully others into giving it to you - because muh feminism/race equality) in China everyone is below Human and only the rich/powerful hold any rights or freedoms.

So Chinese work themselves to death for crap money, because they have no other life goals.

>>1443447
I was just asking you one fucking question. Fucking dumbass, learn to read. You should've written your point clearly instead making people wonder what the you're trying to say. If the context was only China, why the fuck were you comparing jobs in China to jobs here?

>>1443338
hive mentality

they have 4-10 kids, who they work themselves to the bone for. Then those kids have 4-10 kids each, ad infinitum.


Sorry to say but if the Chinese were the only race on the planet we wouldve reached Soylent Green levels 50 years ago. China already has polluted 1/3 of its once fertile/arable land beyond the capacity of ever harbouring life ever again

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>>1443360
Because the people with the most money have no sense of loyalty towards their nations. /they only care about having more money and power.

>>1443457
Is there anywhere online I can read more about this?

>>1443338

In China, if you aren't born into a good family, your options are: live a rural life on a farm or work in a factory for 50 cents to 1 dollar per hour.

>>1443457
"According to CNN’s online global wage calculator, which uses data from the International Labor Organization, the average annual salary of a worker in China’s private sector was 28,752 yuan (about $4,755) in 2012"

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>>1443457
>It's gotten to the point where middle class Chinese people can straight up buy western houses in cash, while the western "middle" class would have to take out a 40 year mortgage
cool story bro.

>>1443487
That's not true. Even going back to the days of the emperors, regular people could move up and lead very good lives by taking the civil service exams.

For the most part, these exams are a meritocracy of sorts where the highest scoring applicants were given government jobs. From there, they could amass a fair amount of power and wealth.

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>>1443497
>Even going back to the days of the emperors, regular people could move up and lead very good lives by taking the civil service exams.
Seems like even back then they had these bullshit examinations that promoted memorizing shit and book learning.

>Intense pressure to succeed meant that cheating and corruption were rampant, often outrunning strenuous attempts to prevent or defeat them. In order to discourage favoritism which might occur if an examiner recognized a student's calligraphy, each exam was recopied by an official copyist. Exact quotes from the classics were required; misquoting even one character or writing it in the wrong form meant failure, so candidates went to great lengths to bring hidden copies of these texts with them, sometimes written on their underwear.

>>1443374
looks like communism to me

>>1443474
I said they are good jobs in China

You said "lol, why'd you leave China then" implying what I said was wrong.

Dumb ass

>>1443517
Looks like China's culture of cheating and corruption is nothing new.

>>1443338
>Not only is it bad for us
Why is what some uneducated laborer half a world away doing menial labor for rock bottom prices bad for "us"? "We" can utilize them to get nice things made cheaply, or do you like paying more for everything?

>it's bad for them
Says who? They sure seem to gobble those jobs up. Does it occur to you that perhaps they understand their options and personal definitions of success better than you do? Poor Chinese make wages their families never dreamed of working in factories.

>"B-b-but their labor is worth more! Americans do similar work for way more money!"
No it's not. Some Americans do menial labor for more money because a random warm body doing menial labor in America is often actually more valuable than a similar Chinese person doing the same work in China and when they aren't more valuable the work just gets done in China because it's cheaper.

When will the neo-luddites die out?

>>1443517
>>1443533
The funny thing is that those civil service exams literally caused the bloodiest rebellion in history. A man tried to move up in society by taking them but failed multiple times. He gave up and declared himself Jesus Christ's brother and lead a rebellion against the Qing Dynasty. He ended up taking multiple cities and setting up what was known as The Heavenly Kingdom with the capital being Tianjin if I recall correctly. Tens of millions died before the rebellion was crushed.

All because he couldn't pass the exams, so he had to pretend to be the son of god in order to move up in Chinese society.

kek

>>1443490
And does that reflect actual buying power, or just foreign exchange rates?

It doesn't really matter if someone living in Beijing can't afford rent in Boston.

>>1443729
Food is ridiculously cheap in China.

You can get a good quality lunch for $1 USD. A bottle of fresh drinking water is 10-20 cents, where as in NZ it would cost me $3-5. Can't speak much about rent though as I haven't lived there in a long time.

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>>1443374

>>1443478
>they have 4-10 kids
what is the one child policy?

yes I know it was recently abolished but the point still stands

>>1443778
The one child policy had many exceptions, dunno what you're replying to though and cbf reading. I have 2 brothers and a sister.

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>>1443724
>>1443517
>>1443490
The problem with these (and all) entry exams is that they are only good up to certain point.

If you go beyond filtering out 70-80% of the applicants you just get statistical overfitting.
This means you get people that are only mostly good at specifically taking exams and aregoing to great lengths to prepare. Many of them might not be very good at the position the exam is actually filtering for.

E.g. if one only accepts the top 0,1% of an exam then there is a good chance that many of the top 0,1% were so good by probability or got lucky because they got exactly the questions they were preparing for (they otherwise might just have scored in the 90th percentile) and the best person for the job might is just be in the 95th or 85th percentile of said exam.

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>>1443457
>middle class Chinese people can straight up buy western houses in cash
Untrue, only the top 5% can do that.

However the top 5% of China is more than 60,000,000 people, and they all fucking love western real estate.

>>1443836
seems easily fixable by increasing the number of exams to smooth the data. sure you might have some outliers who scored better than they should have, but they'd expectedly regress to the mean if multiple exams are taken.

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>>1443850
>seems easily fixable by increasing the number of exams to smooth the data.
One would only select the people who are best at taking exams.
This is good if their later job would be taking exams 100% of the time. ;)
otherwise they are still overfitting.
The one at a exam is rarely also the best at the job since the requirements of both are not identical.

Lets put your idea to the extreme. lets say some Indian or Chinese government agency wants to be super duper selective and they let their 100.000 applicants take 100(!) one hour exams over a period of a few months.

I still would argue that one person who scores the best on average will not be the best at the job. He or she might be reasonably good but chances are also that he is some weird exam freak.

>>1443338
It's only a little when you compare to western standards. For example: Min wage workers in US making $300+ a week would be considered poor but in China you're making 3x the average.
But asians in general are usually willing work themselves to death if they see it as an investment in their children.

>>1443848
This

They have the power of numbers. 1% of the us population might be a few million people, but 1% of 2 billion is exceptionally more. Just look at the canadian and australian housing bubble. Its bad here in the states too, but not that bad yet. Foreigners owning property should be illegal. Especially when they contribute to a bubble on a large scale and then it pops and it has a direct effect on the citizens, not some chink half a world away.

>>1443961
What makes them noticeable is that they concentrate on few Cities/Areas/Countries with relatively small population. A few thousand rich Chinese can make a significant impact there.
It's not that they spread all over the country and buy some farm houses in middle of Kansas or inner Australia.

Vancouver for example is the only "normal" non-US city on the american westcoast, so a large part of Chinese buyers is concentrated there.

They are no different than the USA during our industrial revolution. They are going to see a huge payoff in the future when the shit hits the fan and they start consuming their own goods.

>>1443338
>why do the Chinese work themselves to death for so fucking little?

Because there's no other future. China is ruled by the rich and the rich makes laws to keep the poor down.

Unless you do ultra good in school against many other smart chinese asains or somehow get into the Olympics, your future as a poorfag in china is one of these shitty factories.

>>1444095
I really don't know too much about Chinese economies and its social system in depth, perhaps in part because of a language barrier. But, from a lot of stories I read about China it really seems like they have a wealth gap that can even rival ours. People talk about all these billionaires and millionaires in China, and then there's extremely dirt poor people who will level up your Diablo 3 account for $20 for a whole day.

>>1443338
because working makes their lives better, they have hope for the future if they work themselves to death. The opposite of murrika.

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>>1444125
>China it really seems like they have a wealth gap that can even rival ours.
In cities, there are different pension systems than for rural areas. The gaps are huge.
While rural dwellers receive around 70 yuan (like 10 bucks) a month, urban residents receive between 400 and 500 yuan, and public servants two to three times that.

They have similar issues like India: High tech industry with first world jobs in the cities with lightning fast growth and ventures competing with the western world. However, people in rural areas are mostly uneducated, poor and so disconnected that they don't even have internet.

>>1443338
Not really. I've lived in china for a few years and my (and other expats) experience with the average chinese workers is that they're really fucking lazy and unmotivated. they only work hard in those factories because they know that they are easily replaceable.

given the opportunity they'll just sit around all day and not do shit. no initiative at all

>>1443457
lolno

minimum wage is china is still low and there a is massive unemployment issue among younger chinese and recent university graduate

some chinese people buy things in cash because in their culture they think it makes them look rich

>>1444143
Everything outside the very centre of major cities is third world

>>1443338
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=J_Qg5xDnNiw

>>1444143
Yeah, this is actually a really good answer to that. I didn't think about how similar China's situation is to India's. India is incredibly bad where they have a caste system that's been badly outdated by first world tech industries.

Also there's next to no worker protection/regulations, pretty awful for them.

>>1444143
huuuuge disclaimer though: people in Taiwan speak Mandarin (albeit with an accent). Also, Hong Kong and the PRC territories trying to secede are pretty g.

This isn't just China. People here (Serbia) work themselves to death for pennies because the other alternative is to starve/be poorer.

When a country does not have safety nets, and the job market favors the employer without protecting the worker at all, making jobs precious and making mobility hard, this is the logical outcome.

>>1444224
It's ironic that some of these ex-communist countries went from one extreme to the other. From a command communist economy to a free-market economy with no safety nets, or regulations. A lot of these countries had no idea what they were doing, even Croatia with the help of the EU is fucking clueless.

>>1443419
>i'm not that poster btw
We would have guessed.

>>1443467
>>>/pol/

>>1444143
95% of China has internet. Over 700 million are online.

>>1444151
No it is not. The DRC and rural Hunan are nothing alike.

>>1444202
>trying to secede

No one in Macau and maybe 2% of HK are trying to secede.

>>1444224
>and the job market favors the employer without protecting the worker at all,

businesses don't have to exist. they can pack up and leave, then there will be nothing at all. be careful what you wish for.

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I'd take working to death over being Indian and starving to death.

>>1443724

By that fucking logic the invention of planes caused the 9/11 attack.

A massive rebellion was going to occur sooner or later because the Qing was bloated and corrupt as fuck.

>>1443836

At least the Chinese actually developed a system for weeding out and picking the best candidate for the job. There was no equivalent in the West for standardized testing until the 19th century when the British copied the civil exam system from the Chinese, before then jobs were handed out purely on the basis of nepotism.

>>1444341
>95% of China has internet. Over 700 million are online.
i've seen homeless people curled up under bridges with smartphones in shanghai

]
>No it is not. The DRC and rural Hunan are nothing alike.
Congo is an extreme example. i've been to outer areas of major cities like shanghai and nanjing. it's like your average 3rd world country.

much less for an actual bumfuck nowhere village in china

>>1444428
>before then jobs were handed out purely on the basis of nepotism.
>chinese people picking the best of anything ever

this is what they do in china anyway
regardless of someone's exam scores they will still get fucked over because the bosses son or nephew got picked/given a higher position etc

and even when the best candidate gets chosen their coworkers will be extremely hostile to them insinuating they only got the job because of some special relationship with the superiors if there is even a hint of favouitism

you guys should actually come to china to see what it's like

>>1444513
>i've seen homeless people curled up under bridges with smartphones in shanghai
There are mentally challenged people all around the world, anon. His claim was that most rural Chinese have no internet. This is bullshit.

>Congo is an extreme example.
No. It is your stereotypical third world country.
>i've been to outer areas of major cities like shanghai and nanjing. it's like your average 3rd world country.
Your average 3rd world country is an African shithole, or Cambodia/Laos/Vietnam. Sub $2000 per capita.

China's average is $8000 per capita. And that's with similar GINI.

It's poor as fuck outside the cities, but people aren't starving or murdering each other over voodoo dolls like in Laos or Cameroon.

>>1444527
There is a lot of nepotism in China. More than in 2016 America or Britain, but remember that 1930 America and Britain weren't much better. Corruption and insider trading was the norm during the FDR years.

Also, do you realize that 80% of China's is GDP is private enterprise? They can be nepotic to a degree, but market influences make it less and less profitable.

Most of the nepotism is concentrated in monopolies or SOE's. Which slowly but surely have been outplayed by the private enterprises. In 1980 over 90% of China's GDP was in SOE's.

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>>1445085
Not even involved, but I gotta chime in on the DRC. It is not a run-of-the-mill shit hole. It is a shit hole par excellence. Economic historians and scholars of imperialism all agree that the DRC was by far the worst-run colony in modern times.

China's HDI is nearly the median, ranked around 90th (out of 188). The DRC is 176.

>>1443338
Congo is a VERY dangerous place.

>>1445116
And therefore anyone claiming the suburbs or even the rural parts of China are "third world" is being an idiot.

>>1443360
People have to suffer for capitalism to work.

>>1445184
And communism. Any system actually.

Everything we have is built off of someone else's misery. Our whole society is based upon you at least having someone below/worse than you.

If you can look down on someone else, then you can feel better about yourself.

>>1444345
>businesses don't have to exist

But they can exist under less retarded circumstances. Businesses aren't completely gone from countries with more reasonable worker rights.

>>1445184
life is suffering, at least capitalism lets you eat and entertain yourself.

>>1445085
>No. It is your stereotypical third world country.
DRC is far and above not your typical tird world country

>>1445085
>but people aren't starving or murdering each other over voodoo dolls like in Laos or Cameroon.
not over voodoo dolls but that happens in china everyday. riots happen all the time in the countryside and you never hear about it overseas. i've lived there for quite a few years so i know what i'm talking about

>>1443533
The older you get you realize everything is genes. Why has Russia always been autocratic, why has England always been elective, even for kingships,

>>1444025
>nd buy some farm houses in middle of Kansas or inner Australia.
but they do

>>1445309
This. A business exists to make money. Of course they don't want better conditions for their workers and the environment if it costs them money but if you force this cost anyway they will deal with it. A business is not going to be like, "Now we have to earn less profit than before... FUCK IT PACK IT UP BOYS BETTER TO HAVE NO MONEY AT ALL".

>>1443360
Because otherwise you couldn't afford another shiny smartphone or TV every other year.

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Chinese are extremely conservative. This is the national property. They mentally need be hard working and take small grows without any gambits and innovations.

>>1444527

Have you actually worked in the states? For corporations hiring through nepotism is the de facto practice.

>mfw I've sat and interviewed candidates only to be told that none of my recommendations mattered because management had already picked the candidate who was one of the executives son but we had to do the routine interviews because its required by law.

>>1443338

It's part of the healing process, first they were exploited and enslaved by feudalism, then they rebelled against the rich and experienced communism, and now capitalism is like a truce between the rich and the poor, but of course, the rich are still the best.