>higher taxes >raise minimum wage >cutting fossil fuels

>>1135271
>higher taxes *for the "wealthy"
Govt shits self since they are being attacked, forced to pay reparations, make consumers foot bill, 2008 all over again, but 1000x worse.

>>1135271
The drag of over financialization sucking the life out of our economy will be put to an end. Companies will actually put effort into improving their business instead of playing fun and games with their accounting department. The prosperity that was the 1950's will return as we reinstate the economic conditions that existed at that time.

Good things will happen for regular folks, but of course the regular folks don't want good things. They want more shit and they will demand it, damnit! No good things for us, BOO!

More shit, more shit! lol.

go to /pol/ fag this is /biz/....if its not about making money then SHOE you damn fly

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>>1135271
kek i love these

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>>1135300

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>I think trump will prevail! Make america great again!

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>>1135302

>>1135300
Of course you. They present a nice simple coloring book level of understanding that appeals to people like you.

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>>1135305
>Let's make America great again! We are the master race!

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>>1135307

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>>1135309
>I am a proud white nationalist and I will be voting for Trump, he's the only candidate not bought out by those DARN, KIKES

>>1135300
>>1135302
>>1135305
>israel is the enemy
>supports the only candidate who produced a video of himself sucking israel's dick
http://youtu.be/tm5Je73bYOY

>>1135311
>>1135313
I have nothing against jews/israel nor am i a white nationalist

Nice strawman though

>>1135309
It's all lies. But it's familiar lies.

>>1135316
>make America great again
Literally "change we can believe in" tier.

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>>1135316
>I am not a white nationalist, I am simply a Donald Trump supporter

ALERT! This thread has been contaminated by /pol/ groupthink and is now under QUARANTINE!

~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
/pol/pol/pol/pol/pol/pol/pol/pol/pol/pol/pol/pol/pol
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

Please stay back from the yellow tape and DO NOT RESPOND to /pol/.

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>>1135319
>>1135320

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>>1135323

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>>1135327

>>1135323
>big government is bad for freedom and we need to shrink government expenditures
>institutionalize spying and torture of amaericans, build the largest structure in the history of mankind, and enact a massive military buildup

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>>1135331

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>>1135334

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>>1135335
>He runs out of images

Lmao

Fuck off stormfag

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>>1135338
Fuck off commie

>>1135342
>ur a commie if ur not a stormfag!

>>1135335
>>1135342
Your candidate is going to run up the biggest deficit since the cold war thanks to his mass expenditures with little economic return and his simultaneous shifting of the tax burden onto the middle class.

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>>1135344

>>1135346
Yeah what's our deficit currently? Any idea?

>>1135347
>here, let me portray his supporters as the opposite of what they actually are
Get this faggot: Hillary's campaign is only still alive because all of the SJW's and race voters. Sanders' campaign's primary demographic is educated, working white males, which is why he's been struggling in many of the States in the deep south where the voters are predominantly African American. It's completely misrepresenting facts to portray Sanders as an SJW when all of those types are rooting for Hillary because
>muh vagina

>>1135302
Yeah all the more reason to elect a rich corporate candidate, am I right lads

>>1135271
Minimum wage reducing employment only works under the assumption that the labor market is perfectly competitive.

In fact, there is a large body of very well-done empirical research from the 90s that showed small increases in minimum wage not only do not cause increased unemployment, but may actually increase employment. And it doesn't even have to be a case of theory over empiricism. If the job market is actually closer to the monopsony model instead of the perfect competition model, that's precisely what you'd expect.

I say all this while thinking that $15 minimum wage is a bad idea and would probably reduce jobs because ti's simply too large a jump. But I just like to point out that thinking that increasing the minimum wage will always increase unemployment demonstrates a classic case of "I took intro to micro in college and now I think I know how the economy works".

>>1135351
>"working white males"
>not psych major baristas
kekek

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>>1135361
>if you don't like what I like you are automatically supporting some villainous plutocrat.
>please don't see through my false dichotomy.

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Current.

>>1135384
honestly, I'm not even sure 1% of the population is able to have nuanced discussion about politics. It's a damn shame because I love to talk about this shit, but nobody does anything but paint with broad strokes and view the world in black and white.

>>1135271
Where do people get the idea that lower wages decrease the unemployment rate?

>False Dichotomies: The Thread
You Americans crack me up sometimes.

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>>1135953
Literally just pic related. The only fucking source they have is the neoclassical model of perfect competition.

They don't pause to consider that the real jobs market may not be perfectly competitive, and they certainly don't try to examine any actual empirical research on the subject.

>>1135984
First fucking classes of micro my professor hammered into us the fact that many of those hypothesys were far from a good picture of reality. First fucking class of Investments my professor tells us that the Efficient Market hypothesys is just a sort of benchmark (like quasi-static processes and ideal gases in Thermodynamics I guess) and not really a sufficiently nuanced view of reality. And yet so many people cling on to over-simplified models like they're the whole truth, I will never understand this.

>>1135989
Honestly no econ professor I had ever hammered this home until my senior-level classes. There seems to be a systemic issue with Economics where even academics feel this religious desire (in the words of my empiricist professor) to adhere to their simplified models and theories.

I think the complex calculus they had to undergo to understand the models makes them think they have to be correct or something. I think it's a serious detriment to our national discussion of economic policy.

>>1136007
Well I took a degree in Physics before dabbling in Econ, so I guess the whole divide between models and a complex, multi-factored reality has always been natural to me. Luckily what you say hasn't been me experience with academics in Economy so far, but I guess people like that are bound to be out there.

>>1135953
Common fucking sense, u don't even need to take econ class to understand this

>>1135984
>they don't pause to consider that the real jobs market may not be perfectly competitive
Most economists consider that and they also acknowledge that the minimum wage can be a useful in those specific situations (when businesses have pricing power over wages).
The problem is that politicians talk about the minimum wage as a universal redistribution mechanism and appeal to muh equality and fairness without making any substantial argument.

>>1135371
I already make $15 an hour. If you raise wages the costs of goods go up, but I don't get anything for it. You gonna throw me under the bus? Fuck you.

>>1136120
Yes it's called natural selection. The weak get rekt. If you cannot do enough for society, then bye bye.

That is why ayn rand is right.

>>1136120
No, it would put upward pressure on your pay too since your employer will be more incentivized to keep you from leaving for easier jobs that pay just as well. So if you don't want your own pay to go up, then keep shitposting about how you want as much downward pressure on wages as possible.

>>1135296
like I said at the beginning of the thread..

>>1136127
If you were advocating for natural selection you wouldn't be asking for a minimum wage, period.

>>1136130
And then the prices of goods go up and we're back at square one. Then a few years afterwards, this discussion comes up again and we want it to be $20, right?

>>1135984
Go ahead and ask for the minimum wage to be $100, then. Why not? Do you hate the poor or something?

Either you think price affects output and demand or you don't.

>>1136155
And if your reply is something like "prices don't go up enough to completely even out", then why not make it $100?

>>1136022
>lowering minimum wage will make people work harder
>lowering CEO pay will make them work less
Cuckservatives actually believe this.

>>1136158
>Either you think price affects output and demand or you don't.
Assuming you're even capable of conceiving of economic models, try researching the "monopsony model" and look at a theoretical market where minimum wage can actaully increase employment and decrease it if too high.

Why you think the real world is fucking linear, I have no idea. Apparently you're far too simple-minded and probably deserve your shitty wages.

>>1136410
>we are in a world where there's only one buyer or the single buyer isn't regulated by the government

>>1136433
* For minimum wage work

>>1136433
>>1136449
>what is implicit collusion

Doesn't have to be pure monopsony either, bub. Any ability to affect the market price (which McDonald's and WalMart certainly do) gives them the ability to set wages below the equilibrium point in perfect competition.

Hell, I'm not even implying the monopsony model IS true. Just that we have empirical evidence that an increase in minimum wage doesn't necessarily result in decreased employment, and the fact that there are theoretical models that actually support the empirical research demonstrates pretty clearly that it's downright stupid to cling to the perfect competition model as if it's even remotely common in the real world.

>>1136482
I never said we were in perfect competition, only that the conditions of today are more like one than whatever else you can pull up. Besides, increasing prices are more important to me, anyway.

>>1136155
>If you were advocating for natural selection you wouldn't be asking for a minimum wage, period.
Yep, I don't want a minimum wage. Having one is completely retarded.

>>1136496
>only that the conditions of today are more like one than whatever else you can pull up.
Again. If the research supported you, i'd accept your argument. But it doesn't.

As for rising prices, it will only be in certain sectors, so overall costs/pay ratio would become smaller.

>>1136527
Where's your source on that one?

>>1135271
Not a whole lot, all the president can do is veto shit. Your founding fathers planned against tyranny pretty concertedly.

>>1136546
There have been multiple studies, but this one is probably the most well-designed. It effectively isolated all other variables and reduced it to employment rate with and employment rate without the higher minimum wage. Actually found an increase.

http://davidcard.berkeley.edu/papers/njmin-aer.pdf

>>1136546
Unless you mean the second point, which is self-evident considering sectors largely void of minimum wage like healthcare, housing, etc will not be affected by price increase.

>>1136642
Oh hey I remember that paper. There are other studies that say otherwise, you know.
Go look up Numark and Wascher because I'm on my phone

>>1136691
That even says that it's not statistically significant either way.

>>1135300
A country with strong social policies doesn't necessarily equate bigger government. This is babby-tier arguing and you should feel bad for being stupid

>>1136613
>all the president can do is veto shit.
Kek, not in wartime cuck.

>>1136702
Wait what
Where

>>1136645
Also, the price of normal goods increases, you know. Do you really think the increased costs melt away, especially considering you have no proof that minimum wage jobs are monopsonistic?

>>1136719
>Kek, not in wartime cuck.
Speaking of war, the US is currently involved in two wars, the war on drugs and the war on terrorism. Although in neither case there is an identifiable enemy nation or definable win condition. So lucky your founding fathers rooted out tyranny in the constitution, eh?

Fuck you I am not paying anymore than I already have to for a McChicken

>>1136734
But you'll make more money too.
Like Australia, where the median household net worth is >$400k ($324,000 US)

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>>1136742
Poor americans are poor

>>1136742
http://www.numbeo.com/cost-of-living/compare_countries_result.jsp?country1=Australia&country2=United+States

>>1136747
>http://www.numbeo.com/cost-of-living/compare_countries_result.jsp?country1=Australia&country2=United+States
So things are 10% more expensive? What does it matter if you have twice the amount of money?

>>1136751
Still no answer, suppose I can take that as capitulation.

>>1136762
You forgot we're on /biz/. Most people here get their economic info from memes.

>>1136751
You forgot that I'm not the guy on the tail end, I'm the one who pays more when the wages go up.

>>1136762
You still haven't shown me the place where it says my study is shit, so you must have capitulated on that.

>>1136770
I never mentioned your study, must be thinking of someone else.

>>1136766
You also get to charge your customers a few cents more.

>>1136762
Also, I'm surprised a poster of your caliber could pull up a study, but given your ad hom and "you didn't reply to me in the last half hour you're wrong now" you seem to be more interested in confirming your worldview or feeling superior over the truth.

I'll leave you with one last point, just in case I'm wrong.

You said that the minimum wage increase can't increase unemployment because of one study, and I pulled one up where it says it does. Clearly there are studies of varying quality for both sides.

Prevailing ideas on microeconomics suggest that prices will detriment employment, while there may exist other mechanisms that can cause something else to happen, but you still can't give me the one.

And when it comes to price, even if there is a little upward pressure on my wages it still won't offset the price of goods. (I googled that and it's news to me, thanks for bringing it to my attention)

You really think I'm going to jump enough to get more than my groceries? That shit adds up, you know.

You're still more condescending than you should be, given that your answer is "lol we're not entirely sure"

>>1136791
>You said that the minimum wage increase can't increase unemployment because of one study, and I pulled one up where it says it does. Clearly there are studies of varying quality for both sides.
I'm not that guy btw.
Also I'm fairly sure Australia has lower unemployment than your country despite 2-3x higher minimum wage.

>>1136797
Australia is at 6, America is at 5.

>>1136804
You should probably look at the figures for people who actually aren't working since we have pretty lax guidelines on who can claim unemployment.

>>1136808
I'm pretty sure they're both "if you're trying to look for work and you aren't getting it"

If you're sure that the australia is so much more lax that it makes up a 1% or more difference, I'd like to see where they're more lax.

>>1136818
Well we never drug test recipients and thus don't kick drug users off the benefits for one, and there's to my knowledge no time limit for how long you can be on them. Could easily be 1% right there.

>>1136825
Could be. I'm certainly still not convinced.

http://www.druginfo.adf.org.au/topics/statistics-trends

I guess you minimum wage advocates aren't as dumb as I thought you'd be, though. Honestly, I'm still pretty pissed about all these "maybes". I'm still not going to sit here and let you possibly screw things up for me.

>>1136844
Fair enough. Honestly if I were you I would have argued that it's unwise to compare Australia and the US in this regard because we're essentially a natural resource based country like Canada or Saudi Arabia.

Still though I do think the lower tiers of US society need to see some real income boosts to foster a stronger middle class and thus more consumerism, giving your large companies (and thus the smaller ones that play supporting roles) the fuel they need to keep growing.

>>1135271
>Unemployment is too high
>Wages are too low
Both these statements are true and not contrary to one another. A large supply of workers puts the price of labour down.

>>1136854
Oh also you need to get rid of those filthy fucking Mexicans.

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what a shit thread

you should all be ashamed of yourselves

>>1135271
Temporarily embarrassed millionaires will fight higher taxes for the wealthy to the death.

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>I'll be voting for Donald Trump! He's the only one who can fix this country!

>>1135271
/pol/ has become so shit that is spilling in to other boards like cancer.

there is not even discussion on pol anymore everybody is throwing anime memes in to trump generals that run all day.

4 chan needs chemo therapy from /pol/

>>1136723
You have no proof they're perfectly competitive. The fact is that we know minimum wage-paying firms have power to affect the market. That by definition means we can reject perfect competition.

>>1137012
Trump will literally make all the chana great again

>>1136155
>And then the prices of goods go up
The genius part is that they do go up. Until they reached the margin limit. Then they are less expensive than the relative wage level.