http://www.jonsanderson.org/home/20 16/2/26/ontario-liberals

for once I am not ashamed to be living in cucktario

You will be dead before you're actually rich, so no.

>>1113214
ITT nigs who don't understand 20,000$ extra a year is free investment buffing

Damn dude you can pump all that right into Ethereum and be set in a year or 2.

Nice.

So if everyone gets $20k, where does the money come from?

>>1113294
Bernie

>>1113294
Functions sort of like helicopter drops, removes a lot of bloat from certain social programs and of course taxes

>>1113342
Lol no, you misunderstood. Social programs are funded by taxes.

If EVERYONE gets $20k, where does the money come from?

>>1113348
From people who make more than 20k?

>>1113350
Bro, you have no basic reasoning skills. Never vote.

So how many do we need minimum to setup /biz/ mansion?

>>1113352
How do you think tax revenue works, it's literally wealth distribution

>>1113356
Let's try this again...

EVERYONE gets $20k..... so where does the money come from? Do you give half the people $20k and tax them $40k extra?

>>1113357
Do you think that the US total tax revenue could not give everyone 20k annualy? I mean I'm not saying they would but it's completely feasible

>>1113359
extremely unfeasible

20k per person annually for 318,000,000 people comes out to 6.36 trillion dollars. TOTAL federal expenditure in 2015 was ~4 trillion dollars

>>1113359
You are completely financially illiterate, aren't you? Why are you even on a business board? In order to give everyone $20k, you need to raise $20k × everyone in additional tax revenue. Which kind if defeats the purpose of giving everyone $20k.
>Bernie Sanders supporters have the mental capacity of three year olds

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basic income will be 500-700 and replace all other welfare payments

>>1113365
Bullshit.Thats less than poor families get monthly in food stamps alone.

Our welfare program is fine it just needs more means testing and to reinstate the worksearch requirements Obama waived.

And you still havent explained where the "500 to 700" for everyone comes from.

>>1113359
>Do you think that the US total tax revenue could not give everyone 20k annualy? I mean I'm not saying they would but it's completely feasible

I-i...i-i...

Every single day I'm more ashamed to be living in Canada than the day prior.

>>1113369
>Our welfare program is fine it just needs more means testing and to reinstate the worksearch requirements Obama waived.

Your welfare program is kind of heavily flawed.

FIRST OF ALL, you should not be allowed to reproduce on welfare - that is a given.

Also mandatory drug-tests which cut off all aid if you fail. There is NO reason someone should be getting high off of people's tax money. If you need financially help for a while, sure, but no Tyrone you cannot smoke "sherm sticks" with your boys.

>>1113371
>allowed to reproduce
Fuck off this isnt China.

Drug testing, yes

>>1113364
>aggregate taxes = 20k more than per person
>savings from all the benefits of basic income/negative income tax
It's literally just wealth distribution scaled up

>>1113376
So your plan is to tax people making a certain amount and up $5.5 trillion extra dollars a year? The entire U.S. pays $3 trillion a year. And you want to nearly double the ENTIRE yearly U.S. tax revenue for one vagur group of "rich" individuals. What happens in year 2 when they arent rich anymore?

>>1113379
I don't want to do jack, but the concept of basic incomes or negative income tax has been around forever and is a perfectly feasible idea with clear benefits assuming that cost of living is low enough and revenue is high enough.

>>1113383
You dont understand the meaning of the word feasible

>>1113375
This isn't China?

Why should people already dependant on the state be allowed to bring in MORE dependants into the world who a) have a lackluster quality of life and therefore much higher rates of bad things as they grow up b) stress the welfare system even further and c) just the fact that if you can't provide for yourself you will not be able to for a child...

The black moms with 10 children for maximum welfare monies has got to stop.

>>1113196
Canadian dollar will become more worthless. Good.

>>1113391
Because they're humans, and being poor isn't a crime. Kill yourself.

>>1113359
This is one of the dumbest things I've seen posted here. Damn, that's impressive you giant fucking idiot.

>>1113395
So what if they're humans? No one is killing them.

And no one said it's a crime. But if you're dependant on others you can't be putting even more unnecessary strain. It makes no sense.

This would be like me coming yo your house to eat, which you were OK with but then I informed you I had some friends coming over too and they're really hungry and you can't tell them they can't come now because they're human and they made plans already.

>>1113408
Taking away peoples human rights in the name of putting slightly less strain on the welfare system is just wrong, and you're stupid if you think anyone would ever get behind that. I grew out of social Darwinism when I was 14, its about time you did too.

>>1113413
>YEAH?!
>W-w-well f-fuck you DAD!!
>bedroom door slamming in the distance

>>1113413
>Slightly

I don't think you realize just how much it costs and the rate of these people growing up to be a menace to society.

Who cares about their feelings, if you can't provide for yourself you shouldn't have any children. We live in a society and it's important to try to do what's best for it overall when possible.

>>1113294
the same place QE and bank money comes from

>>1113371
>>1113375
>Drug testing
>implying most drugs stay in your system longer than 48 hrs.
You guys are ignorant, they tried this in Kentucky and ended up wasting a ton of money. The only thing that really stays in your system that long is weed

>>1113393
This. Seems to be the recipe for the time being. This country isn't seeing growth so inflation is the answer. Immigrants with easy credit, foreign parties buying real estate, housing bubble providing revenue to governments, interest rate decoupling from the US. Free money for everyone works great--the masses are too busy infighting to notice their loss of buying power, banks and corporations get to increase revenue=more profit and less competition. Basically an easy way to create a feudalist society. Even easier when the masses are pushovers who think the whole world runs like a hockey game.

I wish I could move away...

>>1113408
Funny, I'm fairly sure you used the interstate system at some point in your life. No children for you, you burden to society!

>>1113395
Killing yourself is a crime - good job at failing debates

>>1113965
>Funny, I'm fairly sure you used the interstate system at some point in your life. No children for you, you burden to society!

Are you actually retarded or just pretending?

I'm not saying you can't EVER have children, just not while you're literally on welfare. I don't understand how this is something an extreme point of view, or if I'm being trolled here.

is it really unreasonable to not allow people who can't even take care of themselves to not bring in more people into the world? It's just plain irresponsible and the odds point that the child will grow up to generally be a burden on society.

>>1114081
You're not being trolled. Edgy teenagers all over share your point of view.

>>1114361
Why is it edgy?

If you can't support yourself you shouldn't bring in more people into the world, it's very simple.

>>1114366
It's edgy because you're talking about limiting the basic human desire to breed. People have free will. No one would ever, ever get behind such an idea.

The only reason it works in China is because they'll show up in riot gear and crack your skull if you've got a problem with it.

Try something like a one child policy or no kids on welfare in America? You'd have riots in the streets over night.

Anyone over 15 knows this and wouldn't continue to debate it.

>>1113322
Uncle Bernie '16

ty!

>>1114372
>It's edgy because you're talking about limiting the basic human desire to breed.

Society and civilization is literally built on restraining people's desires to do things. I might want to smash some annoying cunts head in with a brick but i'm not allowed to do that either. If I was, there wouldn't be a society.

>>1114379
Picture the fight over Obambo care or raising the debt ceiling.

Could you imagine a bill to remove or restrict peoples right to have children if they're on welfare?

Never. Happening.

>>1114372
>It's edgy because you're talking about limiting the basic human desire to breed

It's only being limited if you're dependent on other people's taxes.

Getting welfare is a privilege, you should be happy people are allowing you to survive by paying a little bit more into a pool, normally you'd die from natural selection from not being able to provide for yourself.

Even if you're going to take the "muh morals" route of argument, isn't it MORE immoral to give birth to a child who will not have a reasonable quality of life provided to him? That's pretty selfish desu.

>>1113360
Wouldn't basic income only go to people who have no other income though?

>>1114386
>Getting welfare is a privilege

.. And having children is universally viewed as a right outside of the 15 year old mind. I'm leaving it at that.

>>1114386
You've got the right idea mane

>>1114391
So have children when it doesn't affect others - ie when you're not dependent on the state.

If you're dependent on other people's money you waive that "right".
If i was living on your house(that you graciously allowed me to), by your rules and then all of a sudden said I wanted to use your money for drugs and have my buddies over to smoke weed and drink with, this would be considered massively disrespectful.

Your argument is something a liberal teenager who read some shitty leftist blog would say desu, it's funny you're using the "ur probably 15 years old if u believe this bcus i have no arguments" - route.

This would be like saying that every human has the right to be free and imprisoning people is immoral for that reason.

>>1114391
He's not talking about making it illegal to have children, though. He's saying that as a prerequisite to receiving other people money to support yourself, for that time being you should agree not to breed.

>>1114400
I also support Eugenics in certain cases but that's a different matter.

I don't see how what I'm saying is unreasonable to people ITT. I don't mind paying more taxes to support Tyrone and Shaniqua if they're really struggling. But God damn it Shaniqua no you cannot be smoking weed and having more children with your "babby daddies" in order to extend your welfare benefits.

Reminds of this desu.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=sjpGBEPYv80

>>1114406
HOW ARE YOU GOING TO PREVENT THEM FROM DOING THOSE THINGS?

>>1114408
They need to be showing a clear effort of trying to find employment/getting enrolled in postsecondary education of some sort via pell grants.

Also perhaps giving a large monetary bonus for sterilization.
(some amount I can't make up on the spot that will require more research/numbers) of money/indefinite welfare in exchange for sterilization is one option.


Maybe something like giving un-remorseful repeat petty criminals $25,000 in exchange for sterilization or something like that. There's plenty of cases where people literally just do not learn. Everytime they get arrested, every stint in jail, they never get better or try to improve themselves. If they ever have children they are without a doubt going to be fucked up and grow up in their parents footsteps.

I'm not suggesting killing them or anything but we really do need to think of society as a whole over the feelings of some perma-burden.

>>1114400
>making it illegal to have children

See >>1114382

Restrict, illegal, whatever. Same effect senpai and I only deal with one troll at a time desu.

>>1114416
>B-b-b-but da feelingz of some is more important than what's best for society as a whole!

That's when you know society starts to crumble.

I'm glad to see you're fighting for the "rights" to reproduce of """"people"""" such as the one in this video though:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=sjpGBEPYv80

>>1114408
You stop giving them money if they do the thing you don't want them to do

How did this thread get so edgy so fast? Did one of you assholes cross post to /pol/?

>>1114427
>edgy edgy edgy edgy

Do you have any actual arguments or logic besides "it's their right" and "ur an edgy 15 year old"?

>>1114430
>besides it's their right.
Nope, thats the only argument necessary. You are literally as bad as gungrabbers.
>boohoo a few gun owners are bad apples that are a detriment to society. Take away guns owner's rights!

>>1114437

It's their RIGHT to get free monies while popping out niglets!

No. You can argue for the niglets but not for the money.

>>1114441

Forgot my meme arrow

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>>1114437
Uhhh all of them are a detriment to society in this case.

If you want children then get to a financial point in your life when you're not dependent on other's money.

The "rights" argument doesn't apply here because by doing what they do they take away my right to choose where I spend my money(partly of course, I know taxes are spent on numerous things).

If I could somehow opt out of paying for Tyrone I wouldn't mind it one bit in that case. But at the point it might as well become a private charity.


Your rights argument is somewhat accurate but misplaced. If they are using force to get this money from us then they should be using it in ways that best benefit society. Not spending it willy-nilly.

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>>1114441
>niglets!

>>1114454
Man you know exactly what he means.

Are you guys jsut playing devils advocate and playing dumb?

We all know the "black momma"-types who have 10 children so that they never get off welfare.

>>1114456
Seriously? No
Anecdotally? Yes

>>1114406
I agree with you personally but Eugenics is not an idea that can be sold to the general population in a democracy due to it's association with Nazism

>>1114416
Who's going to be fighting for the right to have kids while receiving government money though?

So what happens if they have a kid after signing your "no children" contract? Take away their foodstamps? This is so stupid. Of course certain programs need to be amended so as not to incentivize breaking up families and keeping women out of marriage. But you have to understand how stupid you sound with your weak arguments for removing basic human rights

>>1114462
read >>1114415
desu tho.

I think if we give a strong monetary reward it could work.

Tyrone gets a bunch of new Jawdinns, True Religion jeans and $25,000 and snipsnip no more children from Tyrone.

Great for Tyrone and great for society.

>>1114467
Yes you take away their benefits when they break the agreement.

On second thought it does seem a bit weak, nigs don't understand decency or anything greater than themselves.

Maybe the sterilization route is a better choice.

To compensate for it we can perhaps pay them twice as much as current welfare or make it indefinite for life, or whatever is cheaper according to some hard numbers.

>>1114427
>>1114441
I speak for myself and I'm far from a /pol/lack, it's not an issue of Blacks having kids, it's an issue of people who use welfare (who are mostly white) having kids who also need to be supported, on top of that in many (not all) cases creating a closed loop system of people who grow up on welfare and have become accustomed to the idea that one doesn't need to work for money.

>>1114468
Yeah that's where I disagree with you, just on the implementation. I don't want to give anyone 25k because I assume their kids are going to be shits. I've met too many kids with fucked up fathers who grew up to be great contributors to society

>>1114482
>I've met too many kids with fucked up fathers who grew up to be great contributors to society

That's a huge exception to the rule though. Generally if you are raised in a bad household with parents on welfare you're going to be taught that "police is rayciss theys tryin kill ya for stealing from that store, it's theys fault not urs" and "White man be opressing us by giving us numerous grants, quotas and all this welfare money".

There's just some people who never ever learn. We need to somehow limit their damage to society.

I remember there was one guy in Canada who never became a citizen and he pretty much committed petty crimes for over 30 years, well into old age, over and over. He could never be reformed even when he's a middleaged and even beginning elderly man. In those types of cases the death penalty and eugenics should be used.

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>>1114491

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>>1114504

>>1114509
Nope. I'm a registered Republican and think your ideas are statist as fuck

>>1114576
It's making the best of a statist situation though.

Ideally we shouldn't have welfare or any social programs at all but if we do we need to allocate the resources appropriately and do what is best for society.

>>1114579
>what is best for society
You're talking like a commie.

>>1114584
>He misses the point this hard

I'M SAYING IF WE'RE TAKING MONEY FROM PEOPLE BY FORCE VIA TAXES. THE LEAST WE CAN DO IS ALLOCATE IT APPROPRIATELY.

>lolr why are u such a commie dude why can't u just allow money to be taken from you and give to jamal and not question whether or not jamal will ever contribute t osociety or whether the money can be better spent elsewhere? lol u fuckin socialist

>>1113360
Is that the actual number of tax payers though?

>>1114588
I was the one arguing for means testing. You're too busy memetexting to understand that everyone agrers with you up to the point where you proposed taking basic human rights away. Guaranteed human rights is what makes America so great. So fuck off and go live in China, faggot

>>1113360

This is why you just print more.

Duh. Germany logic 101.

none of this reflects what basic income is trying to do. the capitalist machine has to eat. revenues suck, growth sucks so the answer is to devalue currency(sovereign debt) which forces increased spending, and import people that will sign mortgages and car loans. there is no room for financial prudence. this country needs spending and tax revenue. basically bloodletting the economy. I would love to see a housing correction in this country but it would be the nail in the coffin for our economy and I'd be shocked to come out of it with a job.

>>1114615
>America
>Great

>Niggers rioting and burning down stores because a thug gets killed
>SJWs infecting every field and getting people fired for the most insane things
>Literal chimp for president
>A senile communist jew is a serious presidential candidate
>tens of millions of illegal immigrants
>Entire cities of some areas are uninhabitable and even unwalkable during the night
>Average American has no understanding of economics/politics - literally believes free speech should be limited and things should just be "free"
>over 60% of adults in America are overweight, half of them are clinically obese

Yeah what a great country. And it's only getting worse.

>>1113391

Yes maybe in the 90s your black mama statement would be true. Please stawp blue collar, j-just stawp.

>>1114391

Just an fyi dude I know was going to have a 12th kid cause it would be paid for by the state.

His 2 bitches get disability, same with all their 11 kids, plus food stamps. He works 50 hours or more a week at $19 an hour. His tax return is 11 - 13k a year.

Ha and your w2 pays for that.

>>1114625
>complaining about people wanting to limit free speech
>wants to limit peoples' right to reproduce

>>1114644
I either support anarcho-capitalism or national-socialism. Those are the only two acceptable ideas, none of this bullshit with social programs that aren't actually for the greater good of society yet draining money from us all.

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>>1114653

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>>1114658

>>1114633
Well.. we're way off into /pol/ territory now but w/e.

>Ha and your w2 pays for that.

So what's the alternative?
>chimpout 2016

Besides it's not as if we have a choice anyway. You've got Trump, Sanders and another Clinton. The only sensible thing to do in the face of this cruel joke (and good theater) is write in Rand Paul out of protest and troll everyone else.

As a NEET in Ontario, I am liking this.

>>1113359
No it cant do that. Thats impossible.

>>1113379
>What happens in year 2 when they arent rich anymore?

I like how you think it would bankrupt them.

>>1113356
Fucking Communists. Always whining about how others are better at life then them. Go lose some weight.

>goes to put his free 20k in stocks
>everyone else already did
>stock is now so expensive he only puts in 15k, gets less real value and then has to use the other 5 to pay for the now 100%+ more expensive grocery bill

>>1114870
Your parents probably make more than $50k tho.

>>1114446
>I choose who gets to reproduce and how they spend money
China seems like your kind of country

>>1114904
$5.5 trillion dollars yearly is bigger than the budget of the entire U.S. federal government. I like how you think it wouldn't bankrupt them.
>Bernie 2026, guys! Rich people suck! I want 20k free every year!

>>1113294
Don't ask that question, Ontario already has the largest subnational debt in the world......

oh how those who work are going to suffer.

>>1115866
They will just move like a fucking plague across Canada and vote for the same stupid shit.

>>1115254
Governments that issue their own currency don't really have budget constraints. They can always just print money and purchase anything denominated in their own currency. The US federal government never has to go into bankruptcy unless it wants to.
All what you really have to worry about is inflation but this can be managed with tax policy which is just a form of demand management.

The government today thinks it's a good idea to pay debt-servicing fees to private lenders and bondholders to lend them back their own currency. You can always just wipe out the debt-servicing industry... this would have little effect on the real economy of production and distribution, it would just end up boosting it if you increase spending.

>>1115221
According to the article, 20k for everyone regardless of income.

I definitely must've read that wrong...

>>1115929
>According to the article, 20k for everyone regardless of income.
>I definitely must've read that wrong...

Kek I got confused for a sec.

Ontario, Canada is also making tuition free for everyone whose family income is under $50k/yr.

>>1115883
We were talking about taxing people, not bankrupting the government. Read the thread before making snarky statements just to demonstrate your "knowledge"

>>1113371
Lol wut how much of sad fuck are you? Next thing you'll say is people on welfare shouldn't buy steak either. They're give a certain amount of money and they should spend is however they'd like. Have 30 min with a hooker and some coke if you'd like, I wouldnt care.

>>1113395
Seriously this. Just because they're poor doesn't mean they suddenly lose control over their bodies and minds. This guy is right, you should honestly blow your brains out, nothing of value would be lost.
>>1113393