>vegans don't eat animals or their products >when

The implication is that animals and certain elements in soil are equivalent. They aren't. It's not a good argument.

>>744650609
But the fact still remains that animals and all living things decompose, so there is a chance that a vegan had eaten a plant which used the nutrients from a deceased animal ultimately eating the long deceased animal.

>>744650866
Thats not the point of a plant based diet. Vegans dont want to kill animals unneccesarily to eat. Ofc they accept that animals die naturally

>>744650866
Again. They aren't equivalent. Whenever you eat a carrot, do you think you ate shit, piss, viscera, etc.? Soil and animals share basic building blocks and elements, but that doesn't make them equivalent.

>>744650526
Hello. Vegan here.
Please stop harassing me. I haven't done anything to anyone.
I don't want to cause pain in any living thing.
Yes, i do like meat, i like it very much. But i don't eat it because i don't want an animal to get killed. I don't want an animal to experience pain. I don't want animals to live without seeing sun, in bad conditions.
Humans are superior to the animals. I do understand if humans wants to kill them, or cause them pain. Humans are much more important than animals.
But i don't do that. I don't want to cause any living thing pain. That's all. You can do whatever you want. You are free to do anything. I don't judge, i don't have right to say anything about it. You may act as you pleased.
I didn't do anything bad. Why do you people hate me?

You could just say that all vegans are faggots, would spare you the embarrasment of your post, OP.

>>744650965
>do you think you ate shit, piss, viscera, etc.?
yeah all time

File: so satisfy.jpg (31KB, 659x609px) Image search: [Google]

31KB, 659x609px

>>744650955
Then why don't they eat cheese or milk?

>>744651048
You didn't, anon. You ate a carrot. In that carrot are carbon-based compounds derived from a variety of sources: tannin, cutin, lignin, proteins, lipids, etc. Those compounds are in a different structure than they are in animals. This is basic biological and earth science, OP.

File: Female Brains.jpg (296KB, 1334x694px) Image search: [Google]

296KB, 1334x694px

>>744650526
Your point makes sense, OP. Vegans have shit logic: they are ideological.

>>744651195
The argument I hear the most for vegans not eating dairy products is that it's like "stealing the food from the calfs, so they die."

Fucking stupid if you ask me. ¯\_(ツ)_/¯

>>744650526
when a dead animal decays, it is no longer an animal.

>>744650995
We do not hate you we hate vegans that shove they're everything in our face the whole time.

>>744650965
>>744651321
But it was part of the animal, those building blocks where one time part of it

Nutrients are still nutrients I get that but it was ones part of an animal, and one day someone will eat the nutrients of our body given if we died on the ground and decomposed.

>>744650995
Individuals are not groups.

>>744651324
Not the person you're responding to, but if that's the case, then you should clarify that instead of speaking in hate-filled generalizations. Also important is to recognize your limited interaction with vegans and that your small sample size skews your perception.

I've lived and worked around vegans for half a decade. Most keep to and complain among themselves. The screechers aren't common, and their need to spread their ideology far and wide has nothing to do with veganism. It's the same impulse that spurs on the politically charged, the religious, the anti-vaccine people, etc.

>>744650609
>>744650955

do you not understand simple concepts?

when something dies it releases nutrients into the soil, which is a by-product of germs, fungus and insects breaking the body down.

those nutrients then feed a plant which vegans eat.

they are eating animal by-products, the nutrients from dead animals repurposed through a plant.

>>744651574
Yes, anon, you've got it. As you wrote, they "will eat the nutrients of our body" after we decompose, not our bodies. I get what you're saying, okay. You're arguing for a paradox in veganism that their diet depends indirectly on the death of animals.

However, what you're talking about is not eating animals. It's eating the building blocks that make up all carbon-based organisms. It's therefore not an effective argument. You might as well say anyone who eats anything is eating trees, sea-foam, and bird shit.

It's a semantic quibble that doesn't address the distinction between systematically rearing and killing animals to eat them and eating the decomposed byproducts of an animal.

>>744651623
yea I don't hate them, I just dislike those sort of people in general not only vegans.

And yea I have had limited interaction with vegans and they all seemed pretty cool, I'm talking about the ones that spread they're shit on the internet.

>>744651805
So can vegans eat wild animals that die of old age?

>>744651805
I'm not trying to argument that "vegans do indeed eat the dead animals on the ground"

I am just trying to explain what I'm thinking and trying to get you to understand that.

>>744651966
It's been a long time since I used to actively keep up with contemporary philosophy on veganism, so apologies if what I write is out-of-date.

From my understanding, to keep it short, the idea is to remove yourself as much as possible from the practice. Even if the animal is already dead, don't derive nutrients from it, cultivate associations between animals and satiety/pleasure/energy, etc.

The idea is similar to university divestment from fossil fuels. As schools become greener, there's no point in investing, in any way, in fossil fuel companies. Therefore, the argument goes, the schools should remove their support altogether. The game is 0% engagement.

File: wow.jpg (10KB, 300x200px) Image search: [Google]

10KB, 300x200px

>>744652259
>don't derive nutrients from it

so any vegan who doesn't eat hydroponically grown plants is a hypocrite.

you proved the thread correct.

>>744652144
If this were true, anon, then you wouldn't have ended your OP with the combative question "What now vegans?" What I wrote (that you quoted) is the implication of your argument. Again, I understand what you're saying about eating animal byproducts. I just don't think it's an effective challenge to veganism, especially not enough to warrant your concluding question.

>>744651316
There are 1.5 billion cows. In a normal ecosystem, this wouldn't have happened.
This happened, because those animals are a source for dairy products and meat.
They do not born anymore, they are produced.
They don't see sunlight anon. They live in factories under very bad circumstances.
Go and watch matrix. You will see that humans are a source for energy i that movie. Animals live like that anon. Hundreds of cows in a very crowded, dirty place. They don't eat grass, they've been fed with cheap, genetically modified sources that will make them produce more milk. Just as the waitress' in the Cloud Atlas.
I've seen it anon. And what i've seen was one most standardized facilities in the world. What i've seen was one of the good facilities.
Babies taken from their mothers, animals die because of diseases, when they die they sent to other departments for their skin and stuff.
They are in pain anon.
Where i live, 1/3 of the cows are alive while they are skinned because machine is automated and works fast. They don't even have time to die anon.
I am not a bad person, nor people who eats animals. In the end, they are just animals. I acknowledge that. Humans can do whatever they want. And it's ok.
I am just trying to not be a part of it. Please don't hate me. I don't hate you.
Too many people mock with me on the internet. With lots of "dead animal jokes" and "what vegans are missing(a picture of delicious looking meat meal) " posts.
I feel bad when i see an animal in pain. And i do want to eat meat when i see a post like that. I do know what i missing when i don't eat meat. I know it tastes good, and most of the time, i want to eat it. But i don't. And people mock.
I don't even say anything, they came out of nowhere. I don't have any account on any social site, i don't have instagram or whatsapp. I don't say "hey look at me i am vegan", and i have yet to see that kind of person on the internet. But these anti-vegan post are everywhere.
Please don't hate me.

>>744650526
Yesterday i saw a vegan resturants flyer and it said
>Life is better without meat
>and longer

Which is so much bullshit because human body needs animal protein.

>>744652387
but I'm not OP lol

>>744652347
Gotcha, anon, which is why I wrote "as much as possible." There's nothing wrong with that kind of hypocrisy since its the best-case scenario: the one in which the least amount of suffering is inflicted.

Again, it's been a while since I've kept up with the literature, so apologize to anyone more knowledgeable passing by if what I've written is out-of-date.

>>744652468
and animal fat. it's the healthiest type of fat to ingest, that's why butter is made out of it.

>>744652447
Keep doing the right thing, anon. You clearly care a lot.

>>744652486
I'm pretty sure they aren't aloud to derive any nutrients from animals period anymore.

That's why all the vegan food says "hydroponically grown" in my grocery store.

>>744652595
Just a heads-up, anon. Not all hydroponic systems are vegan. Many, at the least the ones I've seen, rely on fish waste.

File: 1503081860680.png (211KB, 467x467px) Image search: [Google]

211KB, 467x467px

>>744650609
You failed to present a counter argument. You simply refuted the argument by saying no, without anything to back up your claim.

>>744652447
Then why dont they rather promote farm products where they dont abuse animals?

>>744652760
capitalism wouldn't allow it

>>744652713
Criticizing the premise and its supporting evidence is a counterargument, anon. One doesn't always have to bust out the big guns and blow the other person out of the water.

>>744652760
They do, anon. Not all vegans support those efforts, but those who recognize that most people aren't going to wean themselves off animal products do campaign for better farming conditions.

>>744650526
Counter question, is it still a vegan pizza if one of the toppings is a vegan baby?

>>744652664
LOL you can't escape the byproducts.

>>744653018
nah

>>744653018
yes, but a different type of vegan pizza.

this thread showed me the true extent of vegan retardation

>>744652447
I get where you're coming from, and you may be doing the right thing but I just believe animals don't have souls I mean they don't have the consciousness as a human being so you wouldn't know if the cow is actually in agony, fear or pain.

So would you eat meat if it was from a happy animals that fulfilled it's live?

>>744653018
I mean vegans are against eating animals not cannibalism

>>744653033
Not fully, of course, which is why minimization is important. It doesn't have to be an ultimatum.

>>744650995
Hello, OP didn't harass you, you chose to take offense.

>>744653105
So much wrong here, anon.
>souls
>no consciousness
>so you wouldn't know if the cow is actually in agony, fear or pain.
>fulfilled lives

Humans don't have souls, you need to do some research on contemporary consciousness studies, and animals don't have ultimate goals in life to fulfill. Regarding agony, fear, or pain, have you never had a pet, anon? Ever stepped on a cat's tail, seen a dog cowering during a storm, etc?

>>744653110
they've turned it into an ultimatum though.

that's why it's funny that they can't escape the byproducts of animal suffering.

the fish feces most likely comes from fish farms, which vegans are against.

>>744653359
yea you're right, I just choose to be ignorant so I have an easier time eating animals.

>>744653483
If you say so, man.

not to be "that guy" but isn't the point of vegans that they hate the idea of cultivating animals just to slaughter them for their meat and/or products?

idk i'm just trying to make sense of what they stand for

>>744653483
I'm fully aware animals can feel pain and that cows are bred to die and end up on my plate, that's why I'd rather eat them than let them go to waste.

>>744653419
Well, some have, and that's the point. Throwing around "they" and speaking generally isn't helpful. Some understand the inevitability of contributing to systemic suffering but take respite in knowing that they are at least trying to minimize their impact. If a recovering alcoholic accidentally has a drink, they don't have to give themselves an ultimatum: stop drinking anything whatsoever or begin binge-drinking immediately. They can also recognize that they've tried their best to limit their consumption and use the experience to improve themselves.

>>744653616
Pretty much, anon.

>>744653685
so, by protesting fish farms and then using fish poop cultivated from the farms that they want to shut down in order to grow their food, do you not see the hypocrisy?

To use your alcoholic example, it's like an alcoholic going to AA meetings and giving lectures about not drinking and then going home each night to have a glass of whiskey.

It's not exactly breaking the rule, it's bending it.

>>744653891
Never said I agree with it or that the hypocrisy is lost on me. I just understand the thinking of some vegans and that of others who don't agree with using animals for hydroponic growing.

Minimization is what it's all about. No need to go full carnivore if one accidentally eats some French fries cooked in the same oil as fried chicken. Some vegans understand that, others would have an existential crisis, some would protest for cooking reform, etc. It's messy.

>>744654056
I'm not arguing against minimization, I'm saying if you don't want the fish farms then why are you using fish poop.

>>744654056
So is there basis for dividing up vegans into libertarian and authoritarian?
Where the libertarian ones do it for themselves and the authoritarian ones wanna force it on others?

>>744654139
By using the fish poop you encourage the fish farms to exist and "keep the fish from leading fulfilling lives" as another anon said about cows.

>>744654139
Anon, I don't want a fish farm, don't use fish farms, and don't care about people who use them or argue against using them. My goal in this thread has been shedding some light on the thoughts of some vegans to those who have limited if any experience with them.

Regarding fish farms, I personally think it's hypocritical, but from what I understand, the logic behind employing well-fed fish in a comfortable hydroponic environment is to create a relatively suffering-free ecosystem whereby humans and animals benefit.

Humans feed fish, fish give shit, shit makes food, humans eat food. I don't think it's vegan, but at least it's better than the conditions in which 99% of meat is produced in developed countries.

>>744654170
I'd go further by dividing them into more subcategories, but as a general rule, sure: you're distinction holds.

>>744654420
Well sure, there are also a bunch of categories in what reasons they use to justify their stance, like animal cruelty, the environment, some religious reasons etc.

>>744654519
Yep. I wish more people, especially those who in anger paint vegans in broad strokes, would temper their criticisms by at least acknowledging these distinctions. Too often, I think, the strawman of the impassioned protesting veganism is used as a starting point. :/