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For the Christians, you are aware that God and Satan worked together

The stories and information posted here are artistic works of fiction and falsehood.
Only a fool would take anything posted here as fact.

Thread replies: 115
Thread images: 17

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For the Christians, you are aware that God and Satan worked together in the Old Testament and that God allowed Satan to tempt Job? He made Job's life a living hell JUST to see if Job would remain a follower of God and yes he did after his life got destroyed.

Also, it is never implied that the Snake/Serpent in Garden of Eden is Satan. This is only mentioned in NT (hundreds and hundreds of years later so this is I guess the longest plot twist).

And then you say that Jesus always existed since the beginning of time... well of course Jesus is never mentioned in the OT apart from sometimes "The Lord God" being mentioned but this cannot be Jesus.

So how come the NT contradicts the OT so much and how come you Christians are not bothered by this?

People say Lucifer is Satan's name but this is never implied. People just THOUGHT the passage in the OT is referring to Satan but then again it never mentions the Serpent in the Garden of Eden, nor is the war in heaven ever mentioned until NT was written.
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>>743068662
You do know that all of these points you bring up were settled in like 430 AD, right?

That was hundreds and hundreds of years ago. So by your own logic you should just shut the fuck up.

Hail Satan!
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>>743068662
OT and NT is just stories so the child can grow up being a better person,helping,caring etc
after u learn that u r in a point to your life that u can realize it,requires a brain thought
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>>743069179
A better person who knows to only beat their slaves to within an inch of their lives.
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>>743068784
>implying theological issues are ever settled
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>>743069409
kek i lub sunny
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>>743068662
I heard satan was a lover of god and then they break up.
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>>743068662
OT was Jesus's upbringing, saw how fucked up it was and changed it for the better . Those early Old Testament stories are just fiction, fag
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>>743069670
>Those early Old Testament stories are just fiction
What a coincidence, so are the later New Testament stories.
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>>743069784
Jesus was real , romans also kept records
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>>743069821
Sure, but he didn't rise from the dead and he's not coming back.
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>>743069850
It's more about Jesus exposing the Jewish bankers, corrupted priestess, romans taxes , at least that's why Jesus is the og rebel. Ignore the miracles, unimportant to me
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>>743068662
Only Jews support the old testament you retard. Christians and catholics only do the new testament
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>>743068662
have religions ever needed to make sense for ppl to belive in it?
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>>743069966
Then why are the Old Testament and New Testament sold together as a bundle?
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>>743068662
trump is jesus obviously
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>>743069988
A world without Jesus is a perverted sick pedophilia driven world I don't want
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>>743068784
>>743068662
Most Christians, specially in the US, are heretics.
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>>743070045
Shadilay
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>>743068662
babby's first atheism post
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>>743070044
To understand Jesus, you have to understand the world he comes from
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>>743069957
Jesus also brought up the concept of eternal torment if you don't obey.
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>>743068662
There are a lot of good books on the OT. It's not all fiction. Actually read it and you'll be surprised how much it can read like game of thrones at times (if a good basic understanding of the history in that time )
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>>743070051
A world with Jesus is a perverted sick pedophilia driven world I don't want
>>743070117
Jesus also talks about the Old Testament all the time, saying that it's God's word and eternal.
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>>743070237
>you'll be surprised how much it can read like game of thrones at times
If you can get past how terribly it's written. The subject matter can be pretty exciting, but it's told in such a boring manner that it will put you to sleep.
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>>743070051
Thats ironic considering how many priests are pedos.
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>>743070273
Hmmm don't remember Jesus talking that way about kids.
Maybe sick fags like you who pervert the book are the reason for pedophiles
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>>743070359
Read the book fag. Priests are his enemy
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>>743068662
Christians believe in the writings of a bunch of sand niggas who lived hundreds of years after Jesus died and has been badly translated from many ancient languages to modern ones..... inconsistencies don't matter to them.
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>>743070359
Have you ever heard of the saying "He who calls himself the most righteous is in fact the most sinful"?
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>>743070435
Jesus upholds the Old Testament
The Old Testament has God telling people to take young girls
Therefore, Jesus upholds telling people to take young girls
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>>743069179


Yeah because the old testament is the golden shiny example of morals.
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>>743070516
>Christians believe in the writings of a bunch of sand niggas who lived hundreds of years after Jesus died
First book was written 30 years after Jesus died.

Actually know the subject or don't say false stuff.

Bart Ehrman (ex Christian) is really good on the topic
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The war in Heaven is not mentioned in the new Testament because of the "concil of nicea" where they excluded the Book of Enoch from the Bible (Book of Enoch = Whole Angel/Grigori story and war)
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The devil will lose
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>>743070634
>The Old Testament has God telling people to take young girls
Never says this but Moses did allow his fellow Jews to take girls that were prisoners of war as wives
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>>743070634
Young girls mean when able to give birth. It's a guide to survival . Fucki idiots with opninions won't read the book
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>>743070667
>where they excluded the Book of Enoch from the Bible
That's because it mentions that Angels helped build Noah's Ark which contradicts but then the OT contradicts so much so I don't see why this matters.

Ecclesiastes' author describes how there is no meaning to our lives and that when we die we stay dead. OT NEVER mentions Heaven and God says in Genesis that we must have earthly riches because this is the only life that we have.

I forgot where but one of the Prophets DID use black magic to bring back to life someone who had died from a place known as Sheol (a place that ancient Jews believed was where all souls went which is a dark place where we all sit around for eternity).

Christians have said that when Jesus ascended to heaven, he took everyone out of Sheol and into Heaven those he deemed righteous so that is one way of getting around the no Heaven in OT.
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>>743069850
huh... thing is people were very strict about what you said. People bire witness to Yeshua (Jesus) rising from the dead. Now why would someone say such a thing knowing it could cost them their life (like some of the apostles like John the Baptist) unless it was true? I know I wouldn't lie just to troll people if I knew they would kill me for it.
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You want to know what I consider to be the truth to all religions and if the whole world knew it, everyone would be united and have world peace because there would be no war religious wars?

Let me start off by saying that all religions have similarities because all are connected. Of course books like the Bible, Qur'an are not 100% true but there are truths in Islam, Christianity.

For instance, did you know Islam believes in Ancient Aliens that humans prayed to many years ago? The Alien are referred to as the Jinn in the Qur'an - just like in Ancient Iraq you have the Annunaki that conspiracy theorists believe are Aliens. The Qur'an states that God created 2 beings at the beginning of time: the Alien Jinn race that are inter-dimensional beings and then the humans.

Now for the religious similarities:

In Ancient Iraq: God Enki wanted to give humans secret knowledge but God Enlil did not let him

In Ancient Greece: Prometheus wanted to give humans secret knowledge of fire but was chained up by God Zeus.

In Ancient Egypt: The Serpent Sebau Fiend was chained up for going against the Gods and is waiting judgement day (information from the Egyptian Book of the Dead: you can find this in the Penguin Classics translation).

In Christianity as you know: Serpent Satan was chained up and is awaiting judgement day.

God Thoth in Ancient Egypt says that the way to be saved before you die is to believe in the Ancient wisdom knowledge of the universe.

Scientologists believe in the Ancient Aliens theory and that Thetans (spiritual beings) can infest our mind and soul. All pagan religions believe in different sorts of spirits and of course Christians, Muslims do.

Surah 16:36 in the Qur'an says that every nation has received a divine messenger.

There is truth in all religion. We must understand this so we can join as one.
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>>743070724
On God's orders.
>take girls that were prisoners of war as wives
Hint: This is evil.
>>743070727
Oh, so as long as you wait for the kid to have her first period before raping her, it's fine?
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>>743070656
>Actually know the subject or don't say false stuff.

Like John the apostle who collated the books all together and did the final edit in....oh yeah 100ad?? So, 100 years later.
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>>743070907

That's just your opniinininoninnon faggot.
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>>743070858
>Now why would someone say such a thing knowing it could cost them their life (like some of the apostles like John the Baptist) unless it was true?
Because they believed it was true, but were mistaken.

People face persecution to spread false stories all the time, not knowing they are false.
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>>743070907
You're judging these people by today's standards? Yore a fagget
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>>743070858
And hundreds of Pagans bared witness to seeing their Gods perform miracles.

Do you deny all of the Pagan believers?

So if the Pagan Gods are actual demons as Christians say, why would demons bring goodness to their lives?

Even to this day I have read on forums where people have prayed to other Gods and received blessings so is there more than just Jesus that we do not understand?
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Hey OP,
try reading the bible with "APOCRYPHAS" (=the noncanon stuff they "dumped")
Maybe then the whole thing makes more sense for you
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>>743070976
Anything anyone says about it is "just their opinion". I know that if the U.S. army started taking young girls back from the Middle East by force to marry, there would be a shitstorm.
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>>743071033
Why wouldn't I? Are you saying that morality is relative to culture? Were slave owners not wrong?
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>>743071059
Yeah like the Gnostic Gospels which actually I prefer compared to Matthew, Mark, Luke and John because it uses symbolisms very well and if you are someone who wants to live spiritually and away from the flesh then the Gnostic Books are for you; not the mainstream Bible ones that actually don't give me meaning like these ones do.
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>>743071117
This is a biology matter, not morality fagget
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>>743071172
The Secret Book of John is really good
http://gnosis.org/naghamm/apocjn-davies.html

"How was the Savior designated?
Why did his Father send him into the world?
Who is his Father?
What kind of realm will we go to?

For, although he told us, ‘This realm is modeled on the imperishable realm,’
He didn't teach us about the latter.”

Whoever wrote this book is a genius because the writing style is so good that it ACTUALLY makes you understand what God/Jesus is trying to say if you believe in him
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>>743070988
one does not believe in something they witness, or touch with their own hand (Doubting Thomas). They know.
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>>743070962
>Like John the apostle who collated the books all together
STOP! He edited books made 30 years after Jesus died so my point stands that books were not written 100 years after
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Can we get back to the topic? So Satan worked with God. How do Christians not understand this?
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>>743068662
Not a Christian myself but to answer the whole Satan/Lucifer thing, Satan in Hebrew simply means "obstacle," anything that stood between you and your goal, whether from a spiritual standpoint or otherwise was your "satan," almost like a personal demon if you want to look at it that way.

Lucifer being the great deceiver or the ultimate obstacle to one's spiritual health or whatever only made his name synonymous with the term later on, even though the entity Lucifer and the concept "satan" weren't originally meant to be the same.
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>>743071256
Knowledge is a subset of belief, and you can be fooled, both by yourself and others.

Doubting Thomas should not have been convinced.
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>>743071363
The serpent in genesis is the god of Jesus. Tells Adam to eat knowledge. The jealous angry god who can't seem to find Adam in the garden when he needs him, is evil and wrong.
Enter Jesus to make it right
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>>743071280
Yeah edited faggot. As in, changed. Made them say whatever the fuck he wanted 100 years after Jesus got wrekt.
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>>743071195
How do you figure pedo?
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>>743071482
Thanks for admitting your ignorance kek
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>>743071040
Those miracles are pale imitations to the original, and serve to feed a person's greed and selfishness. The reason counterfeit miracles are even possible is there are universal truths and laws, such as you get what you plant, and you get more back than what you plant. (mirrored in wicca as the sevenfold tenet, among similar in many other religions). Or so a Christian would say.
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>>743071452
Is this an Old Serpent Chained scenario?

I read a book by someone who argued that god of the old testament is evil and Jesus of new testament is good.

He uses contradictions between OT and NT to argue his case but still this doesn't work because Jesus says he has not come to do away with the OT laws.

If you want to show Christians how contradictory the Bible is then this is a great book to do so
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>>743071572
Thanks for admitting your pedophilia kek
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>>743071590
The ot god is the god who created this gross world of matter. The true God (god of the demigod who created us) comes in form of Jesus to make it right and give us hope
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>>743071449
With that logic, I couldn't even convince you of the existence of a chair you were sitting in.
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>>743071617
Sure shadilay fagget
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>>743071578
Face it. The reason God in Bible forbids magic is because the Pagans knew how to use energy in the universe and get what they want. Of course God would forbid something that is very powerful and could cause harm but the matter stands that God does not want us to know everything and keeps us thinking like little kids.

>God is life and God is love. I will obey and serve him because the only meaning I have in life is to serve him and he will reward me with going to Heaven
This is what Christians believe.

So what is the actual point of worshipping God that only made you in order for you to be his slave?

What will heaven be like? Will you get to eat whatever u want and never get full? Fuck as many woman you want? Or sit around all day on a cloud for eternity?

Life is so confusing
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There are Theories in the GNOSIS that our Realm (material world) is ruled by the "demiurge" (the wrathful "evil creator") but above him in the next realm (connected with us) lives the "true god creator of everything".

So this concept could fit with the OBSTACLE=SATAN idea

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Demiurge
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>>743071757
Sure you could. What you wouldn't be able to convince me of is that the chair I was sitting in was crafted from the God Tree which bore the earth as fruit.
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>>743071766
How about being in the presence of Love incarnate, and either being allowed to exist with Love beyond time, or being banished from the presence of Love, existing with regret that you missed the best thing that there ever could be.
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>>743071830
Thus Jews worship Satan
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>>743071684
i also think in that kind of direction

(Demiurge is the name of the God of the material world ;-)
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>>743071830
And this is why Thoth from Ancient Egypt told us that those who study religion and know true knowledge will be saved because they will connect spiritually to enlightenment
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>>743072063
>God will only save a select few and rest will be sent to Hell for eternity
... why
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>>743072081
No they worship Moloch or one of those other Devils. Satan is not a Devil as Christians say he is
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>>743072094
the god in genesis is a blundering fool. Loses Adam. Won't give him knowledge, jealous . The serpent is Jesus?
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>>743071871
or rather, I could easily unconvince you of the existence of that chair, like going in to all matter at it's most basic level is just vibrations, or how do you know we aren't in The Matrix.
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I like the Islamic belief as the Qur'an details

>In the beginning God created 2 intelligent beings: the flesh humans and then the spiritual Jinn (i.e. an interdimensional Alien race that many humans have prayed to i.e. the Pagan Gods).
>Satan is a Jinn

For a 7th century book, this is pretty advanced with what conspiracy theorists go on today about interdimensional Aliens
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>>743072179
Semantics
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>>743068662

Every book of the bible contradicts the others. It's all bullshit.

/thread
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>>743072179

Christians just called other deities from other cultures "Demons".
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>>743072346
Good insight fagget
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>>743072259
>The serpent is Jesus?
Jesus is tempted by Satan so how does this work unless Satan is not the serpent
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>>743072273
> I could easily unconvince you of the existence of that chair
Possible, but doubtful.
> like going in to all matter at it's most basic level is just vibrations
Chair still exists.
>how do you know we aren't in The Matrix
I don't, but have no reason to believe that we are.
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>>743072426
>I don't, but have no reason to believe that we are.
Dejavu, Glitches where we see things fly across room or ghost activity.

I believe we do live in a Matrix
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>>743072063
So anon.....
What do you think you would do after eating everithing you like for eternity, fuck everybody for eternity, have orgasms for milenia? maybe you would then start to do something "higher" after you overcome/satisfied all your needs you had in the mortal world??? thats the funny thing about heaven, we humans cant comprehend it,
how could we comprehend ETERNITY.
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>>743072420
You're assuming the serpent of genesis is the same as Satan who tempts jesus? Maybe the Satan who tempts Jesus is the god from the garden of eden?
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>>743072311
according to a muslim friend I once had
that's because the Qur'an predates all of the other religious texts and there was actually passages from it in the Holy Bible until some dude named King James removed them.
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>>743072486
>Dejavu, Glitches where we see things fly across room or ghost activity.
Better explained by errors of human perception, which are demonstrable.
>I believe we do live in a Matrix
I don't.
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>>743072139
God is Love. The strongest urge of Love is to want to be loved in return. And so Angels were made. The problem with angels are they have no choice but to love God, because to know Him is to love Him. It was a hollow reciprocation. So Man was formed, with the ability to reject God. You can't be Love and keep those that reject you close. The real torment of Hell in my opinion isn't fire, brimstone, or devils with pitchforks. It is knowing you gave up the one chance to be in Love forever.
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>>743071757
And that's good cause who says I'm sitting in a chair?
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>>743068662
Well unfortunately if you accept the christian god, he decides morality, so it's perfectly okay to do that. Or he can do it and say that you can't. God binds you by rules, not the other way around.

See, there's no good or bad unless someone defines it. Defining it yourself is really hard, which is why people bring christo-kun into the picture.

If there's no God, why not off your neighbor? Why not enact Job yourself on someone else? You have some leftover christian morality (as do all faggot edgy atheists) which makes you think "no violence" "no stealing" etc. are a good idea now (because of "common sense" lol, whose common sense?), but if there's no basis to think that it'll go away with time.

TL;DR: You can't have christian morality without christian god having cheats enabled.
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>>743072862
Great answer and only thing op should take from this
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>>743071766
We were put here by an alien race to mine gold for them. It's funny how we still have that urge to this day, thousands of years later. I truly believe we had an ancien race, with ancient technology, that was wiped out by something or someones. Columbus did not discover America and almost everything all of you have learned in school up until this point in your lives was all a lie. Don't take my word for it though.
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>>743072862
>if there's no basis to think that it'll go away with time
The basis is that you need a code of behavior in order to have a functioning society and not be offed by your neighbor.
>You can't have christian morality without christian god having cheats enabled.
Secular morality is better.
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>>743072503
Food and carnal pleasure pales in comparison of being with Love. And at that point,you wouldn't have needs to constantly satisfy. Obviously I can't describe eternity, only can imagine it as "after time has lost relevance".
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>>743072995
I won't
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>>743072542
from my "theologist studies over time" the oldest roots of all religious texts go back to the sumerians (abraham/ibrahim comes from the city of UR = iraq)
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>>743073020
Morality can exist without God. It would basically be do things for the greater good of all, so that you can have a reasonable expectation you won't be attacked by a selfish jerk. Basically Communism... but that collapses quickly in to dictatorship, as history has proven time and again.

That being said, secular morality is just another way of saying subjective morality, since there is no hard and unbending tenets to secularism other than not needing a god.
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I was there in that red pic, Adrael
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>>743073519
>Basically Communism
Not really.
>but that collapses quickly in to dictatorship, as history has proven time and again.
Hence why not really. Societies are composed of individuals, so you have to take the good of the individual into account. When you base your morality on consequence rather than divine command, you can make such distinctions.
>That being said, secular morality is just another way of saying subjective morality
There's no such thing as objective morality. Even with a god, morality is being subjectively defined by that god.
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>>743072862
Because we aren't sociopaths? The existence or nonexistence of god doesn't change that we would have an evolutionary imperative not to kill our own kind leftover from back in the days when there were few enough of us that it could directly inhibit the population's ability to survive. God's existence doesn't have to factor into that anywhere.

Honestly though if all that's preventing you from going on a murder spree is some dusty old book then by all means keep believing. Even though you belong better in a mental ward.
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>>743073020
Why have a functioning society? You are sitting in your room shitposting on 4chan right now. Why is life so good for you? Unless you're prepared to assert why yourself, better to go with Jesus. He got civilization through 2000 years, even at its darkest moments and preserved all of the texts we rebuilt science with; clearly we could do worse

No, secular morality floats; you put it on something like science, but the understanding of science changes over time, and science can't tell you much about individual experience. Economics and the Weather are basically unpredictable, not because their respective sciences don't understand what cause individual phenomena, it's because there are virtually unlimited variables to model and if you screw one up by the slightest amount (or don't take account of one) your whole model is ruined and all predictive power is lost. That's us.

tumblr, Sam Harris and /pol/ are, despite what the latter say, all secular morality. It's a bunch of people trying to plug things into the gap left by rejecting Christian God... Believing there is one hidden truth, believing the truth matters in the first place, believing we receive our value and meaning from an external source (whining to shame normies, pleasing hitler-kun, believing that science explains your shitty life) and so on are all basically Jesus in different clothes.

Either Ubermensch up or go to church/home lads.
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>>743073778
not quite my cup of tea in philosophizing about, so my wording won't be as percise as I wish it to be.

for example, I was actually trying to refer to moral relativism as opposed to a deistic moral absolute existing.
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>>743074188
>Why have a functioning society?
Other than our history as social animals you mean? Because it's something I subjectively want, as do most people.
>Why is life so good for you?
Food, water, shelter, friends, family, conveniences, etc.
>Unless you're prepared to assert why yourself
I am.
>He got civilization through 2000 years
Not really. Secular morality has been with us all along, shaping society and the religions within it.
>No, secular morality floats
> the understanding of science changes over time
Like how our understanding of morality changes over time. This is not a problem. What's a problem is having an arbitrary morality set in stone that doesn't work.

I don't even know what you're trying to say with your last rambling paragraph.
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>>743074586
>I was actually trying to refer to moral relativism as opposed to a deistic moral absolute existing.
In that case, no, secular morality is not necessarily moral relativism. You can define set moral criteria and apply it to other times and cultures to judge them as moral or immoral. Our understanding of morality could change, but morality itself would not.
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>>743068662
The story aboit job is irrelevant cause satan is a higher being and it might be worth to destroy a human life to teach satan a lesson.

You got to understand that the bible was written by humans. Different humans in different times and it got translated dozens of times. Of course nobody thinks what a modern bible says is the universal truth to explain everything. It's just a tool to help you understand the nature of god.
Also it's not like god and jesus are two different persons like displayed at random cartoon shows. The father, the son and the holy spirit form trinity. It's not like jesus is an individual person exept for the 30years on earth. Neither is the holy spirit. They all are the same in nature and what we call god.
You are retarded if you read a book with a history like the bible the same way like you'd read a modern scientific essay. It's a collection of stories that were likely told for centuries before anybody bothered to write them down and then they translated and retranslated and retranslates... how do you think darwins on the origin of species held up, if it was just handed down by speech by uneducated people for centuries, theb written down, than translated into chinese, then translated into hebrow from chinese, than translated into suaheli ? I think it would just read like the fucking bible.
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>>743074813
>Of course nobody thinks what a modern bible says is the universal truth to explain everything
Some people do.
>Also it's not like god and jesus are two different persons like displayed at random cartoon shows.
Some people believe they are.
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>This whole thread

Read the Bible sweetie.

Romans 1:19-23
>Because that which may be known of God is manifest in them; for God hath shewed it unto them.
>For the invisible things of him from the creation of the world are clearly seen, being understood by the things that are made, even his eternal power and Godhead; so that they are without excuse:
>Because that, when they knew God, they glorified him not as God, neither were thankful; but became vain in their imaginations, and their foolish heart was darkened.
>Professing themselves to be wise, they became fools,
>And changed the glory of the uncorruptible God into an image made like to corruptible man, and to birds, and fourfooted beasts, and creeping things.
>>
>>743074710

ah, but secular has no anchor to an unchanging morality. it only has it's current understanding of what morality should be. If secularism does have some unchanging anchor, I would like someone to point it out to me.
>>
>>743074934
Yes and some people believe the earth is flat....
I thought we were talking about christians in general, not retards or cults.
>>
>>743074961
>Because that which may be known of God is manifest in them; for God hath shewed it unto them.
Then that which may be known of God is nothing, for I see nothing of God.
>For the invisible things of him from the creation of the world are clearly seen, being understood by the things that are made, even his eternal power and Godhead; so that they are without excuse:
I don't clearly see anything of God much less understand.
>Because that, when they knew God, they glorified him not as God, neither were thankful; but became vain in their imaginations, and their foolish heart was darkened.
I don't know God.
>>
>>743068662
Satan and Lucifer are two separate beings.
>>
>>743074982
If you define morality such that it has an unchanging basis, then it will have an unchanging basis. For instance, if you define morality such that what is beneficial for society is good and what is harmful is bad, then those will not change. Your understanding of what is beneficial for society and what is harmful for society can change, but not the criteria themselves.
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