Without being an edgy neckbeard, defend anti-veganism.

lol - no one cares faggot

Because its fuckin retarded to hate vegans so much. Acknowledging theyre oddballs is one thing but shit is just dumb

Because I like meat and as depressing as it is the meat industry is never going to change or become any more "humane" so I choose to not cut an entire food group out of my diet. Veganism is by no means a bad thing, but it's not going to change anything ever, and more often than not vegans just wind up being pricks because people lile meat. Fuck off and do something productive and not complain about food.

I ate a salad once. It came out whole! Never touching that shit again....

>>741945206
Because I am adult with real issues and I don't have time to think about animals "suffering"
There is a literal fucking famine is South Sudan, if vegans were decent people (which they aren't) they would be a lot more concerned about actual people suffering there.
Vegans are condescending pretentious pricks.

>>741945206
Being an edgy neckbeard I have to leave this thread
>am a pescetarian btw

Bacon.

>>741945495
This. it doesn't change the continuous slaughter that happens . That's why I never stuck with the vegan lifestyle

i have nothing against vegans but i'm not going to give up one of the only few pleasures in this shitty life,only for that cow or chicken to get eaten by another human or animal

>>741945495
>i like corpses
not a justification, a cannibal could use this.

>The meat industry is never going to change
Appeal to futility fallacy, that doesnt justify animal cruelty, and it wont change with that attitude mate. The more people go vegan, the less demand for corpses. Change starts with the individual.


CORPSEMUNCHERS, REPLY TO THIS POST WITH ONE NON HYOCRITICAL JUSTIFICATION TO STAB ANIMALS AND YOU HAVE DEBUNKED VEGANISM

>non hyocritical
>meaning i can apply it to a human and you wouldnt reject it

inb4 you strawman me. Humans are more valuable than animals, but there is no trait absent in animals, that if absent in humans would cause you to think an eternal, needless, global holocaust and systemic rape/exploitation is fine

Plants know they're being eaten. Guess you're going to starve.

>>741945534
You can care about more than 1 issue

Also what caused your famine?

>>741945611
low iq post and not an argument

>why wont you stop raping
>cumming

>>741945694
You make me want to eat meat, you silly cunt.

>>741945206
>Without being an edgy neckbeard, defend anti-veganism
Because: PETA = People Eating Tasty Animals
That's all there is to it.

You eat my foods food, and in essence starve that which you strive to protect. What's worse, an animal being slaughtered to eat or an animal starving to death?

>>741945757
no they dont, and its retarded and cringe you disregard science like this.

Even f this was true, corpsemunchers kill more plants than vegans as you have to feed the billions of animals you needlessly holocaust

It would also be justified to eat these sentient plants, as humans actually need plant food.

>>741945775
Clearly you prioritise veganism above actual human suffering (seeing as you created this thread) because you are an objectively bad person.

I'm not anti-veganism, I'm anti-vegans.

If we were to eat vegans instead, wouldn't that save the animals and take care of vegans at the same time?

>>741945206
Freedom of choice. Now fuck off

>>741945206
I like eating meat. Plain and simple.

>>741945694
do you even common sense?
Stop rejecting strawman by applying your own strict "moral" criteria to the argument. That's just flipsiding it.

>>741945694
But you understand if we didn't eat the animals, they'd eat us. Eat or be eaten mothafucka.

>>741945782
>hurr durr i have 0 arguments
i know il just post some inane low iq bullshit.

>>741945809
both are bad, and last time i checked i dont eat grass and insects.

>>741945802
PETA put dogs in gas chambers, fuck PETA

> Disregard science like this
>>741945848

Study from University of Missouri

In the study, caterpillars were placed on Arabidopsis, a small flowering plant related to cabbage and mustard. Using a laser and a tiny piece of reflective material on the leaf of the plant, Cocroft was able to measure the movement of the leaf in response to the chewing caterpillar.

Cocroft and Appel then played back recordings of caterpillar feeding vibrations to one set of plants, but played back only silence to the other set of plants. When caterpillars later fed on both sets of plants, the researchers found that the plants previously exposed to feeding vibrations produced more mustard oils, a chemical that is unappealing to many caterpillars.

Plants have feelings too

>>741945949
Sometimes they just freeze them while they are still alive.

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>>741945206

You need to use dietary supplements to actually be healthy with a diet like that.

Said supplements have animal-based ingredients.

Vegans look like aliens.

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>>741945206
Anti-veganism is the absence of down's syndrome.

>>741945206
No one gives a fuck if you are a vegan just quit giving other people shit for not being one. plain and simple

Caring about animals is a human trait brought on by our ability to reason. Any hungry wolf in the woods would gladly tear your limey head off. Stop being a puss and enjoy the fact that we all partake in cultivation of food.

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>>741945949
If only we could be enlightened, high-iq, barley literate pseudo-intellectuals like you...

>>741946031
No you don't

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>>741945206
>current year
>having sympathy for animals

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>>741945863
>baseless asserting because im thick

nice one, and nah, i dont prioritse veganism, i just live as a vegan... i work in healthcare, my whole job is about trying to improve the lives of humans.

I also didnt create this thread, ive just put an argument in, which i know will never get refuted.

>>741945694
this

>>741945873
freedom of choice means it justified to kill animals, well then freedom of choice means its ok to torture kittens, molest children etc... your "logic" can justify anything

>>741945887
your joy does not justify your actions, unless you think every rapist and child molester is justified. Logic 101

>>741945904
>stop rejectig strawman
wtf are you trying to say?

Its not strict moral criteria, its just logical consistency...we have no non hyocritical way of justifying a needless holocaust against animals...answer the actual post you replied to, prove me wrong and il eat a pig with you.

>>741945942
hahaha yeah ennit, that pig and cow would eat me!!!

>>741945971
this does not demonstrate sentience, it demonstrates intelligence...your thermostat can intelligent react to its environment as well...try again but show sentience, a subjective experience of reality...show any mech of sentience without a brain and a nervous system


again, even if it was found they are sentient, that does not justify stabbing animals....imagine if i stabbed you, then in court said BUT PLANTS FEEL AS WELL

>>741946005
Brutal, i never knew that

>>741946031
False, its just certain things are harder to get naturally, especially in shitty climates like UK...that said, this is an appeal to nature fallacy, nothing wrong with taking 1 pill if you really need to do so.
And the supps do not have animal ingredients or they would not be vegan.

>>741946130
you entered into this thread with your own free will, we offered a chance for you to justify killing animals needlessly, this is not giving you shit.
>>741946251
ad hom pic related

WHY CANT SOMEONE HAVE A VALID ARGUMENT

Leave the plants alone you nazi

>>741946434
>your joy does not justify your actions, unless you think every rapist and child molester is justified. Logic 101
You see, my dear anon, rape and molestation is a criminal offense. Eating meat is not. You're either grasping at straws or I fell for some shit-shit tier bait. Whichever it is, step your game up faggot.

>>741946434
>hahaha yeah ennit, that pig and cow would eat me!!!
With the increase in food, there would be an increase in predators you dumb shit

>>741946649
so now you are appealing to law...well in that case slavery was moral when it was legal.

You have shifted the goalposts, both your justifications "joy" and "law" are not non hypocritical my man

surely you can see this?

Everyone knows meat doesn't come from animals, it comes from stores. Duh.

>>741945206
I simply don't get what vegans try to accomplish. I don't like animal suffering either, but in that case wouldn't the solution be to support ecological and less harmful farms? Instead of not supporting either of them and not help eco farms come up ahead? Because if you just somehow managed to get rid of every farm basically all domesticated animals would go extinct. And even if they somehow managed to survive, wild life is not less cruel most of the time, they would just suffer as much so... I simply don't get the objective of veganism.
Having said that, do what you want. Eat meat, don't do it, it's your choice. Whatever that helps you sleep better at nights.

>>741945206
If humans didn't domesticate cows/chicken they would be extinct.

You can't have a valid argument or discussion because this is 4chan. I'm a vegan and I refuse to even try to speak my 2 cents because I know I will be harassed and called a fag. Now most people who actually feel so negatively against veganism wouldn't think I myself was one and would probably get their throats slit and hung upside down; just like what op deserves. Fuck you op I hope you rot in hell for that picture of you holding that dogs head. And to people refusing to actually educate themselves on veganism and not feel a certain way about it because of a vegan they met, I truly wish you would try to open your minds and see it for what it really is. There's nothing you can miss while being vegan except terrible cholesterol levels and hormones in your food. But I know how this will end... by the majority of you calling me a fag

>>741946827
Shut up fag

>>741945206
I don't eat meat because I love animals, but I'm not vegan, because I eat eggs. But my eggs are from chickens with names, that live inside, and play hide and seek with my stepmom.

My point exactly

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>>741946827
Most of what you have just written is barely coherent, you massive fucking retard.

Like I said... no actual argument. It's ok though; I'm here for the memes anyway

>>741946729
So are you okay with using horses as slaves? If you're not, then stop using your car as it was based on the same principle as it. Fossil fuels? Nah, can't use that since it's made from dead plants AND animals. Any plants? Nah, those are pollinated by your bee slaves.

>You have shifted the goalposts, both your justifications "joy" and "law" are not non hypocritical my man
Please elaborate, I'm too tired to decipher this.

>>741946710
I dont give a fuck about most animals either, doesnt mean i support them to be stabbed needlessly.

Again a cannibal could use this I DONT GIVE A FUCK ABOUT HUMANS THEREFORE I CAN MURDER AND EAT EM

You could deal with your issues without stabbing animals, its literally non invasive.

>>741946712
I dont get your point exactly, you saying the more plant food we have the more foxes we get? i dont get ya

>>741946759
>support ecological and less harmful farms
some vegans do support welfare, i personally think we should free slaves, not make their cages bigger. But this is a broader conversation , do you concede that it is unjustified to needlessly kill?

>>741946827
i can see why you get angry, but its indoctrination, we live in a carnist world...i bet you ate corpses for the majority of your life so far? And i also bet you had witnessed, even in a tiny amount, slaughterhouse footage.

>>741946766
Not true, there were wild versions of these animals to domesticate in the first place...their numbers would drastically drop sure, but thats a good thing, the eco system cant handle billions of cows....just think about how big that number is, think of a billion cows in front of you...we stab multiple billions of animals per year

>>741946969
interesting, how many eggs do they lay? Id consider you a vegan if they are saved hens from factory farms who produce more eggs than natural, and you let them eat the eggs they want

>>741946995
why are you posting pics of murdered dogs? Vegans have seen way more animal cruelty pics than most, it doesnt trigger me, it just exposes how psychopathic you are acting

I didn't know 4chan preferred coherency

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>>741946204
/Thread

We couldn't feed all the people on the planet if everyone was vegan. There isn't enough arable land. That's ignoring population growth and global warming. Vegetarian, fine no problem. Every individual 95% vegan again no problem. 100% vegan diets are unsustainable and bougie AF

>>741947090
>lol humans and dogs are comparable, right?

>>741947159
>hurr durr how do we feed da aminals tho?

>>741947090
>I dont get your point exactly, you saying the more plant food we have the more foxes we get? i dont get ya
That and the fact that if the cow, pig, chicken, etc. population rises we will see an increase in wolves and shit, since food is less scarce.

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>>741947107
>doesn't know how to reply to specific posts

Bees pollinate plants, they're not slaves lol cars were developed to get to places faster lol it takes less land to grow tons of grains, vegetables and fruits than it does to raise cattle

Humans are omnivorous, get over it.

>>741947317
Humans can also digest plastic but it doesn't mean we should

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>>741945206
After reading this thread, I have decided to stop eating vegetables and fruit and only eat meat.

>>741947370
>>741947370
Plastic has no nourishing values. Wow this is a new level of retarded

>>741947282
Yet we steal the honey? Seems like slavery to me, since they're not getting paid.
Cars were developed to get to places faster than horses, who were used as a means of transportation before automobiles.
I don't give a shit about the last part of it, since I already stated that I enjoy meat (even if it's less efficient.)

>>741947402
And you will develop severe health problems only becoming a slave to big pharma

>>741947082
No , im not ok with using slave labour such as horses (in the west)

I dont actually own a car, but i do drive for work..whats wrong with that, and how is that connected to stabbing a cow?

Fossil fuels, ofc i use em, but that doesnt cause an animal to get stabbed...you are getting use mixed up with abuse.

I dont get how how i can exlain it to you different mate, you said joy was your justification "i enjoy meat", that fails and then you said its lawful so its ok, which also fails...read the post you replied to, if you dont like my reasoning explain why?

>>741947182
Iyes, we are both animals, both mammals, both omnivores....do you mean equal? Then fuck no, humans are way more valuable than a dog...i dont get your point though?

>>741947246
The cow pig population will drop drastically if people went vegan, we currently breed billions...and if we do see an increase in wolves, they will die out after they have murked the animals and no longer have a food source..

>>741947402
strong argument, you debunked veganism

CMON GUYS YOU HAVE YOUR CHANCE, DEBUNK VEGANISM, JUST 1 NON HYPOCRITICAL POST

>>741947426
missing the point of his argument that much, he didnt even claim plastic is healthy

>>741947426
You're right it has no nourishing values. But what do you really get from meat that you can not from plants?

>>741947090
I'm not entirely sure how many eggs they lay at a time, but shes able to keep herself and me stocked up on eggs, she also has enough to give eggs to her students as well. She has 13 chickens total, her first 7 she bought and fell in love with them and rescued the other 6.

>>741947232
You mean the ones that eat each other or are you so confused you think humans can digest grass and tree bark? I mean sure bulldoze everything on the planet and destroy all other life except soy beans. Sounds like a cool way to be nice to animals.

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>>741947438
God, you are insufferable.

>>741947446
So you're okay with causing a mass genocide on cows, pigs, and wolves? Fucking disgusting.

>>741947432
Honey isn't vegan either; bees are great for the continuation of life on this planet.

lol u dumb dick. pigs turn inedible trash into delicious bacon and you would rather eat the trash instead? ok brooooo

>>741947483
Hens are capeable of laying 10-20 eggs a year, fertilized or not. Animal agriculture has them pumped with hormones to makes 5 to 10 times that amount

>>741947090
I do concede to that, however what we are discussing is if this "needless killing" is justified or not, or at least that's what you stated on your first post.
Having said that, I feel like you totally disregarded the rest of my post. I was questioning what everyone going vegan would accomplish; the comment about eco farms was only a little idea that could be good, I wasn't trying to state it as a fact or anything.

>>741947537
No I'd rather eat fruits and vegetables which have cured me of my dangerously high blood pressure and other ailments

BaYCun tAsTes Gooo

>>741947599
If everyone went vegan tomorrow there would be enough grain to feed the world 10 times over. Instead we feed the majority of grains, corn and soy beans to cows, chickens and pigs

>>741947497
>He replied

Oh lord

>>741947432
The bees are not harmed in the pollination industry, and its a symbiotic relationship, its needed as well, im sure uve heard of the bee population dropping....the honey industry is different though. In the best world, we would leave em alone though i agree.....how does your post justify stabbing a cow?
Your joy does not justify stabbing things, obviously you would reject a cannibal using this to eat you

>>741947483
as long as you arent taking away the eggs she needs to nourish herself/ care for then i class you as vegan

>>741947510
Rich coming from someone who actually pays for the holocaust of cows and pigs, as for your question...no im not, but it wont even happen, the world will gradually go vegan, your scenario will only happen if everyone suddenly went veg tomorrow.

Are you gonna post a justification to stab animals btw?

Its been fun guys, i hope you all have a good day, holocaust deniers or not...and i urge you all to think about why you kill animals

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>>741947704
Great idea, man! Let's all enjoy a hearty meal of grain.

>>741947446
>I dont actually own a car, but i do drive for work..whats wrong with that, and how is that connected to stabbing a cow?
It's more connected to the "enslavement" of horses, as without them automobiles would never have been invented.

>slave labor
It seems that you're using that unironically, which honestly makes me a little concerned for your mental state. Horses are not people.

>Fossil fuels, ofc i use em, but that doesnt cause an animal to get stabbed...you are getting use mixed up with abuse.
I don't abuse animals, I just use them.

>you said joy was your justification "i enjoy meat", that fails and then you said its lawful so its ok, which also fails
Please explain how saying I enjoy something that is legal in (almost) every country fails as an argument. And don't give me that bullshit about how opinions can't defend something, since all arguments are still based in opinions.

>>741947704
Not questioning that either. I know we would find a way to survive even if there wasn't enough, laboratory produced food or whatever that's not the issue.
Again, what's the objective of being vegan? Stopping needless murder and suffering I presume?

>>741947802
There's so many options that are plant based that it's an extremely healthier option. But I understand that change is hard to accept

ur pro at being a loser. thx for the tip bro. I take mine medium rare

>>741947861
Originally I went vegan for my health, and the environment. Eventually it became ethical, and understanding that animals feel just like humans. It's the disconnection we have from animals, I love all living creatures and appreciate the value they hold. Most animals are commodities and not beings

>>741947932
Enjoy the hormones, and cholesterol.

>>741947932
Enjoy the cholesterol and hormones

>>741947471
Not the fucking argument. Explain how plastic is okay to compare to fucking meat.

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>>741947873
It has nothing to do with embracing change, it's just that I don't care about what I eat, because I am not a vain, self absorbed prick (like you).

>>741945206
Meat tastes good. No other defense is needed.

>>741948028
Humans can digest it, that's all I said. The only thing you can't get from plants that you can from meat is cholesterol

How do we actually know animals feel pain? Like, it could just be a response...

>>741948037
I am not vain. Idgaf what anyone does I'm just stating my point of view

Well, the meat industry sucks but humans need meat to function correctly. The way I do it is just eating less meat. Like, only once or twice a week. Sometimes more, sometimes less. I also only but good high quality meat and no cheap crap. That's more natural (eating meat daily has only been a thing after the industrial revolution) and healthy (obesity is most of the time caused ny excessive meat consumption). There are downsides to eating no meat and eating to much meat, so why not chose the middle? It feels to me like many people only care about the extremes. Either you eat absolutely no meat, or daily.

>>741948096
Watch an actual slaughterhouse film, animals don't try to defend themselves or run away without having an inclination of what is coming

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>>741948011
What fucking hormones? I buy free range local produce, because I am not a degenerate Amerifat poor fag. And, cholesterol isn't a problem if it is part of a balanced diet.

>>741948096
if i applied this appeal to ignorance to humans (warm blooded creatures with a nervous system), I could essentially justify any physical harm i do to others.

>>741948140
That's fair.

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MEAT = MURDER

>>741948140
I challenge you in a positive way to try and give up meat and dairy for 21 days just to see how your body feels

>>741948175
How do you know anyone else feels pain? Could just be a response my dude. What if you're the only person with a conscience and this is just a wake-up call?

>>741948174
All the animals you eat tend to be female; you're ingesting the female hormones estrogen. There's more estrogen in milk and meat than in soy beans (because I knew you'd go there)

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>>741948175
Animals OBVIOUSLY don't have the same level of consciousness as humans and even if they did (which they don't), they don't contribute anything to humanity and are better off dead.

>>741948140
>humans need meat to function correctly
wrong

https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/12826028

Every positive found in meat can be found in plant foods, minus the cholesterol and saturated fats, which are the the only independent factor known to contribute to heart disease.

If I said, hey, just smoke 1 cigarette every once in a while, it's better than abstaining or smoking 10 packs, you'd think im silly.

>>741945206
The world being vegan is definitely do-able, and if it were up to me to decide I would probably decide that. I've been vegan in the past not only for the cruelty aspect but because I was cutting out meat and animal products for health reasons anyway, but I needed to cut out a lot more than just that.

Was vegetarian/vegan for 2-3 years or so, I still drank sodas and sometimes ate candy. Both aren't good.

These days I eat plenty of meat, I got the candy and sodas cut out. Like I said if it were my choice then veganism would have a lot of benefits to the world, but the fact is that meat is everywhere anyway so I may as well eat it when I want/need too. It's not like me deciding not to eat some chicken or a burger is going to make a huge dent in anything, and plus eating meat is like a cheat code to quick muscle, while vegans have to really micromanage their food to attain the same strength and muscle although cleaner. Plus more muscle = less stress on your bones up to a certain extent as long as you don't overdo it

>>741947844
>dead bodies made oil hundreds of years later, therefore you cant be against animal cruelty today
Thats your argument, please drop it....we should be able to agree this isnt an argument.

If you wanna reject my term, name the trait absent in an animal, which if absent in a human would cause you to say keeping them in a cage, forcing them to work etc is not enslavement..

I already explained it, but you cant just say "its the law so its moral", by that logic, human slavery would of been moral...death by stoning is currently legal in sudan, is that moral?

>>741947861
people go veg for the environment, health, but its an ethical movement...to end needless suffering as far as possible

>>741948037
>name calling no argument

>>741948049
this has been refuted numerous times...a cannibal can use this excuse

>>741948096
true, but i could say the same about every human who isnt me...this is the mind body problem, please dont take us here, because its impossible to prove that any human other than I feel anything.

>>741948140
> humans need meat to function correctly
Obviously false, made evident by the fact mllions of people dont eat meat, and not 1 death attributed to it.

>>741948171
Some dont, but a lot do
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=cICsnDGBbcI
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KnJxiz_jFBk

the fact you made this argument is very very strange

>>741948316
Oh, he's a Canadian. That explains it all...

>>741948063
You said "we can digest plastic but it doesn't mean we should"

This in compliance to the argument implies that eating meat is just as bad as eating plastic. Explain this. I want the explanation. I can say that doing pushups destroys my muscle fibers so I shouldn't do it. That would be equally true and flawed logic. Explain your fucking reasoning for making a comparison to plastic.

>>741947967
You're trying to impose moral and ethic if that's really the only reason for everyone to be vegan, which wouldn't be an actual justification. We are trying to give objective reasons why everyone should be vegan if I'm not wrong.
Once again, what's the objective of everyone being vegan? Is there anyother benefit from it besides being "morally higher"?

>>741948288
>Animals OBVIOUSLY don't have the same level of consciousness as humans
This is true, and I never claimed such a thing.

However,
They are sentient and at some points in comparison, more intelligent at certain points of their life;

pig = baby human
when it comes to intelligence

also, the thing that we have in common is a nervous system, and a subjective reality generator.

>>741948222
End result; I'm hungry.

Limp wristed little bitch

>>741948355
>true, but i could say the same about every human who isnt me...this is the mind body problem, please dont take us here, because its impossible to prove that any human other than I feel anything.
I'm saying exactly this, and you can't even defend against it since you can't physically know if anyone else feels pain.

>>741948316
Then tell me why many vegans get sick after a few years of not eating meat

>>741948384
>This in compliance to the argument implies that eating meat is just as bad as eating plastic

wrong this is a strawman on your part, he never claimed they were the same...he merly stated just because you can digest something, doesnt mean its what you are best suited to do.

>>741948423
well most people go vegan, because veganism is more moral, not because they themselves are morally higher....we arent floating above you lol

>>741948366
>Position of the American Dietetic Association AND Dietitians of Canada

Are you in a position of poor comprehension?

Their excuses eventuality just boil down to them not caring

>>741948452
so by your logic its ok to genocide humans???

>>741948505
/thread

It's harder to make gains sure there's soy and hemp based stuff but whey is number one and chicken is packed too

>>741948479
Is there an objective reason for it to be more moral?

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>>741948433
Pigs don't turn into walking, talking members of a civilised society, you massive brainlet.

>>741945206
I'm not anti-vegan, you can eat what you want.
Just like I can eat what I want.
I do think people who can't stand it if their food has a face or still looks like an animal, should probably go vegetarian or vegan though.
If you can't catch a fish, brain it and gut it, you shouldn't be eating it.

>>741948469
>people getting sick when they attempt dieting

This is common throughout all diets, the reason for this is that they plan/consume incorrectly. It's a nutritional failure. They could be eating one of the many different vegan diet plans, a whole foods vegan diet is the main one responsible for reversing many chronic illnesses and keeping you at APEX health.

If someone eats garbage from burger king every other day it'll hit them much like if a vegan eats processed vegan shit.

Unhealthy veganism DOES exist, but the disease risks (biggest; heart disease and cancer) are lower across the board.

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>>741948505
Yeah, because it is a trivial issue only pretentious quasi-moral idiots care about.

>>741948355
>Thats your argument, please drop it....we should be able to agree this isnt an argument.
I'll admit, I was pretty much fucking with you there by over-exaggerating.

>If you wanna reject my term, name the trait absent in an animal, which if absent in a human would cause you to say keeping them in a cage, forcing them to work etc is not enslavement..
They don't have the capability of comprehending or knowledge. They're no different then machines.

>I already explained it, but you cant just say "its the law so its moral", by that logic, human slavery would of been moral...death by stoning is currently legal in sudan, is that moral?
I'm not saying because of the law it becomes moral, more like because it's legal and moral (which morality is subjective, so don't even try to argue about what I find to be moral). Human slavery, while not moral (to me), progressed humankind greatly. Death by stoning doesn't affect me, so I don't give a fuck.

>>741948592
If someone is unable to walk, talk, or be a member of society, is it okay to put them into the meat grinder for my tasty human-meat stew? IF you lacked the ability to walk, talk, or be a member of society, would you be okay with me saying this about you?

All laws aside, because laws do not always follow what is moral. See slavery on page whateverthefuck

>>741948525
>genocide humans
Sure.

>>741948469
I've been vegan for 2 years and have not been sick at all.

>>741948479
"Wrong"

Show me where I went wrong in the "meat is bad" discussion or keep your little mouth closed

OK GUYS, I GOT IT!

So, eating meat wouldn't be a problem if there were less humans, right? Then you wouldn't need a hige meat industry and the quality would increase too. So, what if we just start eating a fuckton of meat, so all these 3rd worldlers which rely on our recourses die, because we waste all of our crops and shit to produce meat. And after we wiped out one fourth of earths population, we can start to eat meat as usual again!

>>741948771
Ever? That says more about your immune system than your dietary choices...

Global warming is caused by cows, all we're doing is protecting the Earth.

>>741948888
Quads of gods

My reasoning:

I'd actually quite like to be a vegeterian/vegan.
I've tried a few times - was easier when dating vege girls

Every time I found myself feeling weak, losing muscle mass etc. Even when being entirely certain that I was getting plant based versions of protein etc.

On top of this, vegans and vegetarians are some of the most self-righteous cunts on the planet. Their holier-than-thou attitude (as you're proving OP) makes the entire movement seem disgustingly egotistical and pathetic.

Also, because it's pointless. For example OP - you've been such a phenomenal cunt to everyone in this thread - that I for one will add an additional meat product to my diet each day - simply to neutralize whatever efforts you are making. I recommend that everyone else does the same.

So, in the long run, more animals will die because of your utter lack of diplomacy and decency towards people who have different opinions to you.

TL;DR - anyone who thinks OP is a cunt, eat more meat each day to make his veganism pointless. Let him know that you're doing it BECAUSE of him.

>>741948845
nobody defined sick, but if you're talking about heart disease and cancer, the group with the lowest risk of these would be vegans.

I'd also pitch immune system is on average a bit better from the fruit and vegetable consumption

>>741948734
Nice thought experiment, but, we can't eat disabled people.
[spoiler]but if we could, I totally would[/spoiler]

OP, every animal has to die at some point. We just do it quick and we use the corpses.

>>741946434
You're making a false moral equivalency between torturing a kitten/raping/child molestation and eating meat.
I dunno about you, but I prefer my meat to have suffered as little as possible, since it makes it taste better.
Which means providing them with a comfortable life(grazing next their best friend in cows, free range scrounging for chickens, providing pigs with an outside area to dig for roots and eat nuts) and giving them a quick almost painless death.
Having some bacon and raping a kid are not the same from a morals and ethics point of view.

>>741948951
>without being edgy neckbeard
>posts this

ok kid


And no OP, I cant.

>>741948951
Brutal. Simply brutal.

Will do more meat from now on.

>>741949018
There are cannibals that have demonstrated that they can and will eat other humans, anyways, answer the question, dont avoid it.

F you lacked the ability to walk, talk, or be a member of society, would you be okay with me saying this about you?

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meat industry is not about business, it s about suffering

>>741949093


I'm 40.
I've dated, been and been friends with plenty of vegetarians. Some far more rabid than OP.

I've not known a single vegetarian last more than 10 years.

Most of the women I knew who were vege, stopped when they wanted kids.

Most guys, just got over it after Uni and when they had to deal with the real world.

>>741949093
I'm pretty sure that what op was trying to avoid was nihilistic views that simply argue "no life matters at all". Which is an ethic and moral way to look at it, just like veganism is. Anyways I'm not a nihilistic fuck so I rather play op's game and try to disprove it otherwise

>>741948678
>They don't have the capability of comprehending or knowledge. They're no different then machines
Clearly they do, or they wouldnt be sentient.

>more like because it's legal and moral (which morality is subjective, so don't even try to argue about what I find to be moral).
Morality is subjective, there is no moral atom...that doesnt meean you can just say that whenever...oh you raped my daughter, well its not morally wrong

>>741948742
finally someone is logically consistent, and the conclusion is human genocide is moral...nice

>>741948794
i already have twice, you are just too thick to understand...you are strawmanning him

>>741948888
yeah so not breeding billions of them is a good thing...

>>741948951
>Every time I found myself feeling weak, losing muscle mass etc. Even when being entirely certain that I was getting plant based versions of protein etc.

>>741948951
Every time I found myself feeling weak, losing muscle mass etc. Even when being entirely certain that I was getting plant based versions of protein etc.... so your body defies science?

>>741949041
a cannibal can use this excuse

>>741949070
no i made an analogy, i didnt equate, this is you strawmanning/not understanding my argument...i really hate how meat eaters cannot grasp analogies...im obviously not saying torturing a kitten and eating a kitten is the same thing, im saying your reasoning can justify either. Please understand analogies.

ALMOST 150 POSTS, its only takes one post to debunk veganism, name the trait and then name your non hypocritical justification.

>>741948734
Well I'd be against it, because my first instinct when you mention cannibalism is disgust.
Yet if you brought out a calf or a lamb, I would be able recognize that yes they are cute little animals and also yes they would be tasty as fuck.

The truth is OP.
The world will eventually stop eating meat - but it won't be because of people like you.

People don't respond well to guilt trips.

As with everything else in this world, it will come about due to technology and price.

Sooner or later lab grown meat will become a thing - and then as it becomes a cheaper and safer option - most people will eat that instead.

Eating meat will become an expensive treat for the wealthy.

People like yourself will be remembered for what they were, unpleasant, socially-inept ideologues.

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>>741945206
Sorry friendo, but nature isn't all butterfly kisses and hugs.

>>741949203
>people post shitty hard to tell from troll arguemnts
>op responds just fine
>some far more rabit than OP

>>741945206
You need a variety of food groups to survive we arent that advance evolutionary so we still need meats to survive

>>741949351
Writing a post is not a guilt trip...its peoples egos that get in the way. You have people rather admit human genocide is moral than admit they are wrong lol

>>741949354
cool story bro, nice appeal to nature fallacy. The first fallacy kids get taught. And yet you use it.

>>741948561


>>741949308

Op did you missed my post are just decided to ignore me totally instead of the tough question you haven't answered since my first post?

>>741949308
Well your analogy is flawed, because you're basing it on us all being blank slates and having to learn what is and isn't right.
Yet kittens instinctively trigger the same cute protection response human babies trigger in us.
Many of the things you say we can justify with this, are unnatural for us to do on an instinct level.
You can love furry little animals, treat them with respect and love and still be able to eat them anon.

>>741949450
i missed it and im not OP

but, yes, ofcourse...a life which does not require a needless holocuat is more moral then one which rejects a needless holocaust...how can you not see that? Are you gonna go all pseudo on me

"explain whats morally wrong about a holocaust"...please sdave us both the hassle mate

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>>741948951
That was beautiful.
/thread

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>>741949070

yeah the thing about getting red pilled on veganism, is that you find out that free range is just dimensions for the box.

They let them out of the box sometimes, but most of the time they are in a massive dirt box.

pic related; thats free range from the camera lens of an animal rights activist

>>741949308
>Clearly they do, or they wouldnt be sentient.
Prove it.

>Morality is subjective, there is no moral atom...that doesnt meean you can just say that whenever...oh you raped my daughter, well its not morally wrong
Morality is subjective, law is (usually) based around common morality. If everyone agreed that rape was moral, it would become legal and moral as it is the common belief. And what the fuck do you mean I can't just say that whenever?

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>>741945206
We should start eating vegans, that way nothing of value will be lost.

>>741945694
>there is no trait absent
Then why the fuck didn't THEY build all of this cool shit we have today?
That's the difference.
We're on the top of the food chain artificially.
Eating other animals is a benefit of being on the top.

>>741945694
>>Humans are more valuable than animals, but there is no trait absent in animals, that if absent in humans would cause you to think an eternal, needless, global holocaust and systemic rape/exploitation is fine
I believe that trait to be a human level of intelligence

>>741949434

See, that's the problem.
You have so little self-awareness that you are completely ignorant to how much of a cunt you come across as.

I've already said I actually agree with the idea of minimizing unnecessary suffering in the world. Why kill animals needlessly?

However, most people are trying to survive. Life isn't easy for most people and veganism is adds a considerable amount of effort and expense to life.

Every single shopping trip, resturant visit, meal with family and friends becomes a complicated matter. It also becomes a situation where you put yourself in some kind of "moral centre of attention" (which comes across to everyone like a spoilt fussy child).

For those who work long hours, struggle to pay the bills etc. It simply is such a low priority that it's not worth the additional expense and effort.

You will not win this battle on a moral argument because most people either don't care or do care and don't have the time, energy and arrogance to follow through.

Ever noticed that at vegan gatherings it's all students or people of retirement age?

You'd be better off investing your effort in producing a cheap and effective meat substitute - if you genuinely cared about stopping people eating meat.

Because until then, no amount of arguments or photos of pigs being cut open is going to make any impact. It may affect a few emotional teenage girls, who were already looking for an excuse to express their need to be different, the centre of attention and flirt with an eating disorder.

The rest of us are trying to live in a world where there are bigger problems.

>>741945206
If you feel like you have to defend anything anti, you are a retarded faggot

>>741949070
also, to continue on from >>741949640

the immoral action is very simple

doing X for the purpose of PLEASURE (unnecessary) when it harms Z

eating meat is unnecessary and it harms animals (kills them)

raping/torturing is unnecessary and it harms others

might i mention that when you purchase meat/dairy you are supporting:

MURDER
RAPE
TORTURE
ENSLAVEMENT
IMPRISONMENT
EXPLOITATION

of creatures that are similar to humans in the most important ways (nervous system, sentient, warm blooded, emotions, etc)

>>741949529
Oh no, that's not at all what I'm trying to say.
What I'm complaining about is that veganism won't avoid this "holocaust" you're talking about. Farm animals without farms will, in most cases go extinct. The ones who don't will become wild animals again, what means there will be lots of animal death and suffering, in many cases no better than what humans do. That's why I ask, what does veganism try to accomplish? It won't stop animal death and suffering. It will probably make a few species go extinct. My only question is that. What do benefit does it have?

>>741949732
He doesnt find it ironic to say human level of intelligence in a thread of shitty flawed arguments which have been stomped like a million times already.

>>741949786
>how much of a cunt you come across as.
Responding to trolls is being a cunt, sure.

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>implying veganism isn't a quintessential neckbeard attribute

>>741945206
There is being omnivorous, and then there's being wrong.

>>741949786

Oh and to add to this post - I wasn't joking. I'm genuinely going to add additional meat to my diet to negate the effects of your own veganism.

Currently, my lunch and breakfast were generally animal product free. That will change starting today. Because of your attitude OP.

>>741949876
>ironic to say
>implying cows are capable of even fallacious reasoning, let alone sound logic
Lol k.

>>741948951
Agreed. OP is a massive faggot, will eat more meat from now on.

>>741949496
No im not, i understand that we have a cultural preference for kitties...
This is just a red herring because you arent answering my origncal comment
>
You can love furry little animals, treat them with respect and love and still be able to eat them anon.
No you cannot, unless you are a psycho with some weird definition of love

>ou can love your children and kill them at the same time
NOT EQUATING A KITTEN WITH A HUMAN, JUST USING YOUR LOGIC

>>741948951
hurr durr i was proved wrong so il kill an animal
hurr durr im gonna call names and then say vegans are bad for calling names, even though they havent insulted me at all
hurr durr i feel insecure

>>741949648
Its already the scientific consensus, read the deceleration of conciousness, the burden of proof is on you.
Also you cannot prove other humans are sentient, therefore its ok to just murder whoever you want...nice logical conclusion

>if everyone believed rape was moral it woulld be
Again nice absurd conclusion to your world view...also appeal to popularity fallacy.

>>741949666
>animals cant build skycrappers therefore its ok to kill whichever animal you want for whatever reason
Alot of human lack the capability to do this also, so its ok to holocaust the disabled, the elderly, babies etc

>>741949732
Lods of humans lack intel, as do chimps, dogs, cats, etc...your logic says its fine to murder all these, whenever, for whatever reason...that is immoral

>>741949786
THE VEGANS PROVING ME WRONG SO IL CALL NAMES WAAAH

What did i wrote that was so bad and hurtful?

Every single shopping trip, resturant visit, meal with family and friends becomes a complicated matter. It also becomes a situation where you put yourself in some kind of "moral centre of attention" (which comes across to everyone like a spoilt fussy child).

..how much of a fairy do you have to be, when the biggest problem you have is waaah people have to not buy corpses and buy something different and read labels a few times at the start

>>741949434
>muh appeal to nature fallacy
No, you are misunderstanding the point.

The point is that everything thrives on the death of another living organism to sustain it's own life.
If broccoli could talk and you asked it, "would you like to cease to exist as an organism so that another can live?" It's answer would be, no. It is in every organism's interest to live while others die. So why are you any better than someone that eats a cow? Both are engaged in the exact same action; killing things that actively try to stay alive.
How much pain something feels when it dies is irrelevant, so quibbling over what organism dies (plants or animals) is pointless.

I agree that it is an obligation to make sure an animal suffers as little as possible when it dies, but fundamentally it is no different than ending any other organisms existence so that your own existence may continue.

Everything kills something that doesn't want to die so that they themselves can live, so get off your high horse moralfag.

>>741949786
>It also becomes a situation where you put yourself in some kind of "moral centre of attention" (which comes across to everyone like a spoilt fussy child).

This is not something you say to someone with a food allergy or avoids x for religious reasons. You say this because it avoids paying for animal exploitation.

Convenience is such a shit justification, I could say the same for sex, yeah?
I dont want to go out and pick up a girl, my family will think i feel entitled to a girlfriend if i cry about not getting one. im so lazy, its so much easier to just kidnap, imprison, and rape the girl next door..

>>741946995
Oh, we have a toughy over here

because of vegans, the demand for vegetables and grains and etc is bigger. In order to fill the demand, they cut down more forests and destroy wild animal habitats, in order to build farms. The animals who lives there, walk on the farm, because they have nowhere to go, and they get shot. So what's the point? There are too many humans on this earth. Like in what way does the random old drunk that drinks shitty cheap bear and the shittiest bar and starts fights help the world?

What the fuck is anti-veganism, do you mean just being a normal fucking person? Is THIS the power of american '''''culture'''''?

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>>741945206
ITT vegan brainlets pretending not to be brainlets

>>741950037
>because of vegans, the demand for vegetables and grains and etc is bigger. In order to fill the demand, they cut down more forests and destroy wild animal habitats, in order to build farms

Answer this:
do animals need to eat?
are animals perpetuum mobile?

I'm going to eat dead animals and no fart-smelling vegan will stop me.

>>741945206
>implying neckbeards are vegan
are you retarded? bodybuilders, mma fighters, hipsters and hippies are vegan. neckbears live off of pure meat.

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>>741949908
the industries which require your money funds the omnivore belief to be taught in school so you dont even consider anything wrong with eating meat

>>741947438
Hahahahahah

>>741950037
Most deforestation occurs to make more beef slaughterhouses and to plant gmo soy beans to feed said cattle. You can plant for vegetables and grains in a 10 acre field than you can to raise cattle

>>741949973
that cholesterol and saturated fat in the meat will weed you out of existence, karmas a bitch and this is science so i can say that for certain.

>>741950194
Yeap

>>741949832
sorry brah
>Farm animals without farms will, in most cases go extinct
I dont see how, cows eat grass, chickens eat bugs, pigs eat whatever...sanctuaries exist etc

>The ones who don't will become wild animals again, what means there will be lots of animal death and suffering, in many cases no better than what humans do.
so....this isnt our problem....do you think humans letting animals be wild is problematic? Do you think we should go and catch all the wild animals and captivate them?

>what does veganism try to accomplish? It won't stop animal death and suffering
ofc not, in the same way human rights wont stop all human death, but it aims to stop humans needlessly murdering animals..we know animal deaths will still happen...and need to happen, eg pests.

>>741949923
>being this triggered

>>741949990
>The point is that everything thrives on the death of another living organism to sustain it's own life.
I agree, this doesnt justify needless killing though...broccli is not sentient.

Im not on a high horse, vegans dont even ride horses...you are just feeling judged even though all im doing is debating with adults who entered a vegan thread, to debate veganism.

>>741950088
Yes.
The reason why there's so much cruelty in industrial animal farms is that the demand is too big. In a way, maybe veganism helps a bit.

>>741945694
I'm gonna enjoy eating the next animal 100x just for you.

>>741949832
having said that mate, i agree their numbers will drastically drop

>>741949976
>its ok to just murder whoever you want...nice logical conclusion
As long as it's not me or someone I care about, I honestly couldn't give a shit.

>Its already the scientific consensus, read the deceleration of conciousness, the burden of proof is on you.
Could I get a link?

>Again nice absurd conclusion to your world view...also appeal to popularity fallacy.
Common morality isn't a physical thing, but it is still a concept we HUMANS hold. Notice how most animals don't have morals? And "absurd" is subjective. as I believe it's the most fair way of deciding what is and isn't moral in the eyes of the public.

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>>741950245
You are really going all out huh..

>>741949923
lmao butthurt as fuck haha

>>741950299
Not the guy you are talking with but
http://fcmconference.org/img/CambridgeDeclarationOnConsciousness.pdf

>>741949976
>Alot of human lack the capability to do this also, so its ok to holocaust the disabled, the elderly, babies etc
>skyscrapers are the only thing humans have ever created
>implying a single human has singlehandedly come out with any of the cool shit we have today
Seems legit. Nice strawman.

>hurr durr why not eat people?
>hurr durr what is Kuru?
I mean, if you relate with a cow, that's well and fine for YOU. That's empathy for other. Vast majority of people only have empathy for same. Maybe a long time down the line when every group of humans are fine with every other group of humans, you'll have a shot at convincing people that cows are people too. But that's a long time coming.

>>741950155
Except cooked meat was what gave us the evolutionary edge. So if we weren't meant to eat it, we wouldn't have made it this far at all.

>>741950245
>broccoli is not sentient
That doesn't matter. It is still needless killing within the confines of the pro-vegan rhetoric. You are ending the existence of another organism so that your own existence can selfishly be prolonged. If it is wrong to kill a pig than it is wrong to kill a plant. Saying you're hungry isn't a good enough reason.

You are willing to establish the importance of some species over others, I.E. cows over broccoli, so why are you unwilling to establish humans over every other species?

>>741950468
I'll be honest, I'll probably never read this but I appreciate the link.

>>741950648
Actually, it was cooking in general that gave us the evolutionary edge, but even if it was just meat, that is using what was once beneficial to justify actions in the present?

Rape was once necessary, murder was once necessary, etc. do we do those things now since they benefited us in the past?

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>>741945206
Humans are supposed to eat meat. We are omnivores. It is part of our diet. Without the correct proteins you will get sick. This is science. Our teeth have canines used for slicing through meat.

Enjoy chocking down protein pills you faggot.

>>741950817
wow great argument faggot as this hasnt been stomped a million times already

what a scary canine!
do you know also horses got canines?

>>741950577
it isnt a strawman at all, learn your terms....he said its ok to kill animals because they arent as smart as us, using skyscrapers as an eg

I have empathy for both animals and humans...and i never say cows are people, that is an actual strawman....jeez, just google your terms, never use words you dont understand

>>741950648
ofc it did, how does that justify eating corpses now?

>>741950677
NO, sentience does matter, you cannot mistreat a non sentient organism...
>you are on trial for murder, what do you say in your defence
>if its wrong to kill a human its wrong to kill a plant

>why are you unwilling to establish humans over every other species

Hilarious i have to explain this to you, because usually i get told i view animals and humans as the same....but humans are of more moral value than a cow, because humans have a deeper and longer ;) concious experience... eg its worse to lock up a fully grown adult than a baby, because the adult can appreciate its suffering in ways that a baby cannot fathom...same goes for animals....this fact however, does not justify putting a baby or an animal is a cage... get my drift?

>>741950817
LOL yeah them teeth that can barely bite through thick tape, you can get all proteins fro plants. I didnt even know protein pills existed...

>>741950817
refer to >>741950155

I don't give a shit about animals suffering. They're inferior, dumb creatures, so let them be tortured if it means I get delicious food.

>>741949828
Free range means outside, with access to bugs and weeds in my country.
In my case eating meat is necessary, since my nutrient absorption is rather poor, if i were to get my protein from veggies, I would be doing nothing but eating them all day.
You know when you reasonably explain your opinion, I can respect it even if I disagree.
It's when you go capslock and shame tactic on me that part of my brain dismisses you as religious and tells me to move on.
>>741949976
My logic clearly said though, that humans have a built in protection instinct in regards to children.
Me eating a chicken, doesn't mean I am capable or willing to harm a child.

>>741951110
>without being edgy

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>>741951110
Finally someone agrees.

>>741950245
>Extinction issue
Getting enough is not the only reason to go extinct. Domesticated animals don't know how to protect themselves from predators. On top of that, they would be competing against other animal species who are used to fight for territory and food, species that have evolved to survive without the need of human help, cows and chickens wouldn't know how to search for new territory once the food runs out in the territory they are being released and have to move looking for new food.

>Animal death and suffering issue
If veganism is not going to stop animals death and suffering, and you accept the fact that animal will kill each other and cause pain to each other, why wouldn't people do the same? We can't captivate every animal, that's for sure. But we could make the lives of the ones we've alredy domesticated a little bit better, being on the wild won't make it any better for them.


I get the feeling you just can't deal with the guilt of contributing to the animal death's, so you decided to go vegan. And by all means, if it helps you sleep better at night, do so! You can have your conscience clear that YOU didn't helped kill those animals. But making everyone go veg won't stop it. If you make everyone go vegan you will just helped make the animals suffer and die in different ways.

Anyways, this is the point where the discussion goes ethical and moral to the point objectivity doesn't exist, so I'm leaving here.
It was fun to discuss with you op, but try to be more polite please. The way you talk to people makes you look like you think you're all high and mighty for being vegan, and just discourages people from following your example and irritates them. Don't take this comment as an insult, it's just a little appreciation.

Have a good life op!

>>741946434
Valid arguments inc.
>I like to eat meat.
>I have the ability to eat meat.
>I can eat meat regardless of perceived morality because morals are relative to the individual.
Any questions? I'm not going to answer them.

>inb4 murder or some equivalent argumentative substitution
I don't enjoy risking my life to murder. If cows started using AR15s I might think twice about eating meat.

>>741951177
I'm not being edgy. That's just how nature works. You think lions kill their prey in a more humane way?

>>741950909
>it isnt a strawman at all, learn your terms....he said its ok to kill animals because they arent as smart as us, using skyscrapers as an eg
Oh, ok then. Being too dim to understand that no one human has ever singlehandedly come up with an entire breakthrough on their own, if not deliberately misconstruing my argument to shift the goalposts to looking at individuals instead of a species as a whole in order to male their argument more favorable.
>deliberately changing an argument isn't a strawman
Yeah, ok. Whatever you say.


>I have empathy for both animals and humans...and i never say cows are people, that is an actual strawman....jeez, just google your terms, never use words you dont understand
>ignoring the actual point in favor of picking apart a choice of wording with the intent of humor via absurdity
Ok. So you're not actually wanting to debate here. You're just looking for whatever you can to feel smug. Enjoy the vegan circlejerk.

>>741948355
>this has been refuted numerous times...a cannibal can use this excuse

The difference is I can stop a cannibal from eating me. A chicken or a pig cannot stop me from eating it.

>>741951440
>carnivore wild animal is your role model
Ok, edgelord

>>741945206
It's been evolved into us for thousands of years... if it ain't broken don't fix it with a trendy whim

Let people live their own lives.

>>741951417
>inb4 someone draws immoral parallels or points out your double standard & logical inconsistency

ya i kill children. if children started using AR15s I might think twice about killing them.

>>741945206
Im not anti-vegan just as long as they dont preech about their ideology all the time

>>741951667
This is not a statement you would say to anyone doing something immoral such as:

Rape
Murder
Molestation
Animal Abuse
Exploitation
Torture

but these all happen through demand for a product that we consume for pleasure.

You can live your life until you're fucking someone elses, then it'll be a problem that either people, or the police wont be quiet about.

>>741951714
Children and animals are not the same creatures anon.
Children might be animals sure, but they're our kind of animal and any species who regularly kill or eat their young is bound to fail.

>>741951417
valid arguments for rape
>i like cumming
>i have the ability to rape
>i can rape regardless of percived morality because morals are relative to the indvidual

>inb4 murder or some equivalent argumentative substitution

Also fyi, what im doing now is an analogy, not equating.

>>741951462
so you admit your criteria falls down when looking at individual humans, so you resort to appeal to collective fallacy.

i never changed the argument

No, i want a debate, its just your original position implied either animals or humans...you can feel for both....and im not OP

>>741951473
so might makes right?

>>741951743
vegans should be doormats

why cant you all just drop your egos and admit a needless holocaust is nor moral lol

I like how vegans try to compare humans and other animals as if they really think we are equal

>>741951843
>Children and animals are not the same creatures anon.
Notice how I never concluded that? Uhh..... no?

The logical parallel goes as follows:
Children are innocent
Children are sentient
Children are warm-blooded
Children have their whole lives ahead of them
Children have emotions
Children cannot consent
Children aren't very intelligent

Replace children with animals and you're good to go.

They are NOT the same, but what they both hold true brings a double standard if you treat one different than the other.

>>741951843
I think the point he was trying to make was that your justification for an immoral action fails under most if not, any context.

>>741951916
Im the last guy you replied to what i mean is they shouldnt preach about veganism when it isnt relevant vegans seem to always find a way to spin conversations into debates about veganism

>>741951963
how many times does this need to be said

COMPARING IS NOT EQUATING

Ive had to explain to people numerous times now why humans have more moral value than animals...drop the bullshit

NOT ONE VEGAN IN THIS THREAD HAS SAID THIS

But yes, IRL, vegans say this shit, and il stand shoulder to shoulder with you against that retardation

>>741951916
>so might makes right?

When it comes to interaction between different species? Always.

>>741952075
I agree with you 100% mate.

>>741952099
so youd be ok with someone killing your pet becase they can?

>>741952142
>so youd be ok with someone killing your pet becase they can?

Of course not. That's my property and I have a sentimental attachment to it. I wouldn't be okay with someone else killing my livestock just because they can either.

>>741951963
It's about connecting what they should QUALIFY FOR

They aren't equal and any vegan who says this is actually deluded.

You do not give an infant voting rights or say that it can consent just like you'd do the same for an animal.

But what you do give to an infant that you do not give to an animal is the right to live a life absent of exploitation and murder. It's a double standard seeing as they both qualify for this with sentience.

>>741952046
Why is eating another animal immoral though?
That is a subjective opinion, which makes it impossible to talk about bettering the environments for domesticated animals, when the guy I'm discussing with keep yelling "you might as well be raping and eating children".
>>741951988
So preferring your own species over other species is a double standard?
That's how evolution works though, one species manages to become succesfull, usually at the expense of another species.
This goes for all living things, be they animal, fungal or plant.

>>741952197
>Of course not. That's my property and I have a sentimental attachment to it.

that's the same thing I say about my daughter

but its not within even the slightest bit of consideration to pay for immoral things to happen to kidnapped human children, we lock those people up for life.

>>741952197
so might doesnt make right then bro

Also, this is semantic on my part, but your pet is not your property...a table is property...unless you hold this definition consistently...as in your child is your property...

Im just triggered tbh lol, id say your pet is your responsibility

>>741952224
im very glad that the shift is changing, we will drive out the far left nutcases

>>741952261
>Why is eating another animal immoral though
outside of survival it is immoral because you are causing needless suffering/death, in the same way as it is morally wrong for humans to eat humans.

>>741952261
So preferring your own species over other species is a double standard?
he isnt saying that anon-kun, he is saying there is no trait difference....obviously we prefer our own species...is save a baby human over a baby pig, but that is from bias

>>741945206
If a vegan annoys me with wanting to rule how I should eat I don't like him because eating dead animals is my birth right
That aside I have some vegetarian and vegan friends, they never tried to convert me

>>741952261
>Why is eating another animal immoral though?
It is unnecessary, thats the primary factor which makes it immoral and not only is it unnecessary but it causes the destruction/abuse of an innocent sentient creature for the justification: "PLEASURE"

which does not justify any immoral actions such as rape, murder, torture, etc.

>That is a subjective opinion,
if you were a murderer and said this to a judge who rules you guilty, that would be the silliest thing wouldn't it?

>>741952357
>so might doesnt make right then bro

You might have missed the part where I said interactions between separate species.

Someone killing my pet is not an interaction between separate species, that's one human destroying another human's property.

>>741945534
>Because I am adult

/thread

ITT : kids arguing about petting cows. Grow up FFS, and stop proselytism ! We all have convictions, keep them for yourself.

>>741952447
>>741952357
For me it is necessary though, I've got morbus chrohns, which inhibits my nutrient uptake, I literally can't survive on vegetables alone to get enough proteins.

>>741952304

>but its not within even the slightest bit of consideration to pay for immoral things to happen to kidnapped human children, we lock those people up for life.

As we should. But animals are not humans, and the rules for them are different. Things that would be immoral if done to a human are not immoral if done to an animal.

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>>741945206
I find it hars to care about less complex bundles of matter.

>>741952500
ah ok i see...so lets say you have a cat...cats go off on their own, a cat comes into my back garden every day, i have no idea where its owner lives, and i will never see them...can i now curbstomp this cat?

>>741952534
not an argument. Some people, howver fallacious are actually trying to debate here, got any points?

>>741952566
agreed, taking away a cows right to vote is not immoral, it is for a normal human....where you loose me, is stabbing cows without justification

>>741952629
Morality is purely cynical and relative imo

>>741952563
that sucks, i dont wanna get into your specifics, but my ex gf auntie had chrohns and she was vegan, it can be done...dont know your specifics though...either way that suck man

>>741952641
>ah ok i see...so lets say you have a cat...cats go off on their own, a cat comes into my back garden every day, i have no idea where its owner lives, and i will never see them...can i now curbstomp this cat?

If you're aware it has an owner then you're doing something immoral. If it's just a stray do what you want to do.

>>741952641
No slaughter house with any worth to their salt would stab a cow to death.
They get shot right in the brain and die within seconds.
Unless it's halal, halal slaughter is an unnecessarily cruel way to kill an animal.

>>741952566
>It's not of my species, so it does not have moral value

They feel pain, emotion, warm blooded, have a subjective reality generator

but all this goes out the window because they are not of your species.

If we go back in time, the justification for discrimination/slavery was that they were not of "our race"

It's a very flimsy attempt at justifying a double standard.

>>741952641
I agree that harming animals with no justification is cruel and immoral.

But killing them so you can eat them is justification.

>>741952725
Another side of it is that I'm poor fag, I'd have to improve my income immensely to even get close to a diverse vegetarian diet, much less a vegan one.

>>741952735
props on the logical consistency, but i think most people reading will see how this world view is psychotic.

>>741952767
really? the ones i visited bolted them in the head then stabbed their necks...

>>741952803
but you dont have to eat them, meaning the killing is needless...unless your argument is literally you got to eat the corpse, in which case, you have no argument against cannibals

>>741952796
>It's a very flimsy attempt at justifying a double standard.

It's not a double standard at all. Race and species are wildly different things.

>>741952871
I guess it depends on the laws of specific regions.
Where I live halal is slitting their throat and praying over them while they bleed out.
The prayer does the animal no harm, by all means pray and be thankful, but cutting their throat and letting consciously bleed out is fucked, not to mention all of the stress hormones ruining the taste of the meat.

>>741952840
False, sure you ont afford the gourmet shit,but the staples are the cheapest food in the market...the moxt expensive thing is spices...i actually went vegan during my most poorest days...i bet i was more broke than you at that time, if i can do it anyone can my anon

>>741952887
when you appeal to species has a justification for exploitation, you are arguing an arbitrary trait...same with arguing that race means they dont deserve moral treatment

>>741952971
letting them consciously*

>>741952641
>got any points?

Yep, just learn to read. Kids petting cows, being incredibly ignorant about animals and still having a very loud propaganda, kindly and massively shared by medias.

So basically, there's nothing more to say about that.

>>741952995
You know I do like vegan food though, it's nice.
But I just don't have the moral imperative to avoid eating animals at all, I believe you can be thankful and respectful for the sacrifice of an animal you're going to eat.
I do my best to avoid animals bred in cruelty.

>>741952563
https://nutritionfacts.org/2012/09/13/dietary-treatment-for-crohns-disease/

http://plantshift.com/blog/going-vegan-to-pacify-crohns-disease


Vegan with morbus chrohns has been done before, it just requires a high nutrient vegan diet, which is feasible and financially reasonable for someone who can budget decently.

because without meat you'd ruin the world. Do you have any idea how many people rely on meat not just for eating but for livelihoods? Do you know how easy plant to plant viruses spreads? Or that there can be little to no signs until the plant is too far gone to save? Cows make noise and SHOW that they're hurt and injured, their immune systems even without antibiotics are already stronger than a plants. Banana's got wiped out once and theyve got cells in fucking labs in case it happens again. Look at the potato famine. You want that happening but on a large scale worldwide? What happens to the inbuilt infrastructure of the meat industry when it goes under? What happens to all the rural towns, small communities, massive corporation and entire fuckin countries?

What are you going to do about inuit people who survive on meat to live their way of life? Are you going to dismantle their culture just because you don't like them eating meat? How are we growing enough food to feeds millions of suddenly vegan only people? all out of season? what happens if theres a dry year or the grounds too wet? what if the germination rate of the seeds are off and its gonna be an extra two weeks of growing? Veges sell for less than meat, how are you going to account for this in the economy? What about GMO? spraying? where are all these pollinators coming from all of a sudden to pollinate all these new veges?


I honestly dont give a fuck about vegans or vegetarians, you do you. Its the people who think everyone should be vegan and vege that piss me off. You're delusional to think it would work.

itt. someone thats worked both in plants and meat.

>>741953077
what, the media constantly mocks vegans...veganism would actually go against many corporate interests...nothing you wrote even attempted to explain why its moral to stab animals

>>741953090
yeah i get you, i was the same...but honestly its because you have been conditioned...you can look at a chicken and feel sorry for it if i was grabbing it by its neck and flinging it at a wall, but not if i slit its throat...why do you think this is?

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also if you ever put on skinny jeans you automatically lose all credibility anyway because then everyone knows why you starved yourself

>>741953090
>>741953090
>I do my best to avoid animals bred in cruelty.

This statement is a rough definition of veganism, but seeing as you purchase animal products, you're not doing your best to avoid animal cruelty, because it exists in every animal product production besides a personal backyard hen or a personal pet cow.

And yes, "cruelty-free" and "free-range" "organic" are just rules that, when applied to reality can easily and are, cruel practices. These labels are only marginally better prisons with the same slaughterhouse end.

>>741953218
Because the chicken is providing me and you sustenance shortly after you slit its throat.
If you flinging it against a wall you're just being a dick.
This might be my shamanistic/animalistic proclivities talking, but if you're gonna eat an animal, you gotta respect it and treat it well before killing and eating it.

>>741952767
>Unless it's halal, halal slaughter is an unnecessarily cruel way to kill an animal.
Youre a fucking retard 99% of meat is halal. if youre buying it in a supermarket, guess what? halal. Theyre not shot in the brain, its a stun bolt. What fucking factory is going to shell out that much money for fucking bullets?

Halal when done on a factory level IS NOT inhumane. It is stun bolted (At this point completely unconscious and unfeeling) and its throat is slit (It cannot feel this pain and is bled out within a matter of second.) it is completely humane as the animal does not feel any pain during this process.

I work in a fucking meat factory so I have a lot more experience to be talking about this shit instead of you fucking retards who watched on doco on netflix.

>>741953297
The person who made your pic related actually has no clue that a human can move their jaw side to side UNLIKE a carnivore or omnivore?

That's actually colossally comical.

>>741945206
it's so easy. meat tastes nice.

>>741945534
Pretty much this.

>>741953188
>how many people rely on meat not just for eating but for livelihoods?
many people required slavery to continue so they could have a job...many people require the baccy industry as a job...doesnt mean they are moral

> Do you know how easy plant to plant viruses spreads?
i dont live in a 3rd world country, and from memory the top viruses, ecoli, foot and mouth, bird flu etc, all come from animals

The rest of your paragraph is barely comprehensible...he potato famine (ireland) happened because there was a war on.

>What are you going to do about inuit people who survive on meat to live their way of life?
Nothing, they kill for survival, let them live their shitty lives as savages.

>How are we growing enough food to feeds millions of suddenly vegan only people? all out of season? what happens if theres a dry year or the grounds too wet?
we currently have enough to feed billions (50ish) of animals per year, i think we will manage

>Veges sell for less than meat, how are you going to account for this in the economy?
supply and demand, the prices have done well so far, also what are faux meat?

you other red herring are BS, i aint gonna get in a debate aboout GMO, like you really care...nothing you wrote even attempted to explain why it is morally sound to stab a cow.

>>741953334
So by your logic i can kill a human as long as i can get sustenance? (name the trait absent in an animal which if absent in a human would cause you to accept cannibalism)

>>741953470
This argument has had its shit pushed in multiple times, read the thread man

>>741953475
you are siding with a guy from sudan, who thinks its ok to stone women...cmon bro

>>741953218
>what, the media constantly mocks vegans..
kek. No. They should be banned from medias because of massive ignorance, and they are not.

>veganism would actually go against many corporate interests...
This is just some more story telling for edgy urban kids believing they are making the world a better place while having absolutely zero knowledge on how it actually works. Corporate interests... kek.

>nothing you wrote even attempted to explain why its moral to stab animals
Indeed. This is because it has nothing to do with moral. They're stab because it's useful to kill them, in order to eat them. This is how nature works, faggot, get over it, and if you're too weak, cry at home and stop invading my medias with your propaganda.

I don't deny you the right to be weak and ignorant, just don't do it around me.

>>741953304
Depends on the laws and regulation anon.
I live in one of the strictest countries in regards to these laws.
Here a cow is not free range, unless it is on a field the majority of the year, hanging out with its best cow friend. They're not organic unless no non-organic pesticides get in their food or environment.
Same goes for chickens, they get huge fenced in outside chicken runs, where they can eat bugs and plants.
Our free range pigs get these little shelters on very large fields, where they get to rear their young until well after the age of weaning.

OP is a massive faggot beyond belief.

I've never seen a more compelling reason not to be a vegetarian than the one OP is making by being such a complete turd.

Do I want to be seen as someone like OP?
Nope.

I'll eat meat and be a normal human being, not some neurotic annoying self-proclaimed moral super hero.

>>741953521

Nobody is reading these OP.
by the way, just eat four sausages - I wasn't hungry but I did it because you're a twat.

>>741953542
>kek. No. They should be banned from medias because of massive ignorance, and they are not

saying no isnt an argument, because vegans do get mocked...its not a big deal, it is what it is...also i didnt know i was ignorant, but now ive been told i know.

Veganism goes against animal agriculture, which is a billion dollar industry, how you dont see that as a corporate interest is amazing.

Appeal to nature in your moral argument...the first fallacy you are taught if you went to school was appeal to nature.

>>741953587
So you just name call and cry about how vegans act instead of grappling the message? Sounds like you need to grow the fuck up tbh tbh

>>741953521
>(name the trait absent in an animal which if absent in a human would cause you to accept cannibalism).
DNA so similar to mine, that disease transfer is not only a risk, but actually a major risk. Not to mention prion disease if I happen to eat some brain matter.
Also the idea of eating a human revolts me on an instinctive level, whereas eating a cow doesn't.
I love cows, they are super sweet animals and they love getting scratched behind their ears. But I can also imagine all of the great cuts of meat on then, while I enjoy hanging out with them.

Whatever your beliefs OP.

Take this one thing away:

From today I will eat an extra portion of meat a day - because of you.

Those animals dying entirely your responsibility - I'd not have done it if you'd not been such a knob-jockey.

Closing thread - no need to reply won't be reading it, the autism is too strong.

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>>741953304

>lives in a society where people maim and shoot each other over skin colors and pretend deities
>is concerned for the welfare of his chicken sandwich

veganism is conspicuous consumption only performed by the most bourgeois coastal whites, the entire working class thinks you're an idiot queer

i would let your veganism ruin your shot at a job or laboratory position, i would deliberately pick someone else and never say a goddamn single word about why

Humans evolved to be omnivores because meat is the most efficient way to get all the nutrients we need. Yes, we technically can get all the nutrients we need from vegetables, but it takes a lot of studying to find out what gives exactly what, and a lot more vegetables to achieve the same goal. Not to mention how expensive or impossible it is for many people to get access to the proper mix of vegetables.

If you're gonna constantly equate animals to humans, I'll play your game. Studies have shown that plants release chemicals equivalent to crying out in pain when cut or eaten (http://onlinelibrary.wiley.com/doi/10.1111/ele.12205/full). That study is one of many, and although the paper itself costs money to see, the abstract says it all. They communicate in very many ways, they have an intelligence to them. Does that mean we shouldn't eat plants either? Then what do we eat?

>>741953697

I know the message. I've been one. I've dated vegans. I've been to the meetings.

Can you not understand that NO ONE CARES what you eat or what you think about what you eat.

Do what you want to do, stop being an evangelical Christian and trying to make everyone else have to agree with you.

>>741945495
Factually false. If enough people refuse to eat meat the industry will be force to shift to lab-created meat and no animal would be killed. It's no longer science fiction we are almost there, now it's just a matter of where the big money is.

>>741953521
>i dont live in a 3rd world country, and from memory the top viruses, ecoli, foot and mouth, bird flu etc, all come from animals
No you fucking idiot this just shows that you have no idea what you're talking about, Im talking about plant to plant viruses, shit that can wipe out and entire farm ala foot n mouth

>we currently have enough to feed billions (50ish) of animals per year, i think we will manage
What happens to all the animals you inbred? Are we feeding all these humans scarp food as well? god you're a retard.

Theres no point in arguing with you because you have no clue.

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Here you go OP.

>>741953661
i keep getting replies to them, so evidently you are wrong....and cool story bro
Nice name calling, do you have nap time soon kid?

>>741953734
wait, so if eating humans didnt make you ill (im aware of this btw) then it wouldnt be a moral problem? Cmon man, i thought i was chatting with someone who was intellectually honest.

Instinct aside, you can clearly see its wrong to needlessly kill a human.

Another thought experiement to put this reasoning to rest....if your loved ones conciousness was transferred into a cow, would it be ok for people to stab that cow? They dont share your DNA anymore, so its cool
right?

>>741953765
>being this triggered you make a whole new activity to do because of some anon poster
you must have an interesting life

>>741953799
>you cant be concerned about people getting shot because of race and fairy tales if you also care about animal rights
Fucking retarded post.

>>741953846
>nobody cares
>veganism growing
k

>>741953923
omfg, if your made up epidemic of plant viruses was so bad it would of effected me, or someone in my country, it hasnt...unless in very very very rare circumstances.

>What happens to all the animals you inbred?
its not clear what context you are asking this in, because you have poor comm skills....if the world goes vegan, the animals numbers will gradually drop...humans can eat the plant food animals eat such as oats, soy, wheat, grains

I didnt know i had no clue, but now ive been told i have no clue, i realise i have no clue.

>>741953940
>lets base or morality on the morals of non sentient plants

>>741953948
I would only eat a human if forced to.
The DNA similarity is one thing, familiarity and knowing that said human functions much like me is also part of it.
If someone managed to transfer the consciousness of a loved one of mine into a cow, I would protect that cow. But that would also make it completely different from other cows, because it would be the first cow with the mind of a human. Essentially a new animal altogether.
Just as much as if that cow had been my pet, where I've decided for it to be my companion or work animal, I wouldn't let people kill my companion or work buddy, I need them for those things, no matter what species they are.
If the cow on the other hand was intended for eating, I would still treat it well, but spend less time with it, since I've not made it my friend.

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>>741953799
>violence amongst humans
Humans always did it to the animals first, in a society where we were never taught to treat animals with even an inkling of respect, how do you think we can even think about treating eachother right?

>religious justifications

You know, it's funny that you say that, because religious people also justify animal exploitation and abuse (dairy/meat farming) with "they are the gift of god for us to eat and use!"

But anyways,

>coastal white
nope
>bourgeois
nope

I came out of poverty with a job during highschool to support my household.
I can empathize with those suffering because I went through the shitter too, I know what it's like. Imagine how privileged and entitled you must be to think that an innocent creature should amount to a chicken sandwich in your gullet and theres nothing wrong with that. I spend my money on positive impact, not a fancy watch, open your damn eyes, you disgust me.

>>741953697
>i didnt know i was ignorant
kek. "not knowing" is just the definition of ignorance...

>Veganism goes against animal agriculture, which is a billion dollar industry
Agriculture isn't an industry. Stop watching youtube videos, it doesn't make you less of an ignorant. Because of your propaganda, insutry starts cooking vegan meals, and will earn billions dollars if veganism happens.

>the first fallacy you are taught if you went to school was appeal to nature.
kek. Classical liberal fallacies : people are "taught" things and everything is a construction. two centuries of lies and you still fall for it. Open some books kid.

>>741954241
sorry i forgot to add, your loved ones brain is reduced to the sentience of a cow...so you know, it can solve basic puzzles, mobile, recognises you, can have fun, can suffer, etc

Thats my bad, and im sorry you wasted your time replying to my incomplete point

>>741953948
>veganism growing

Yep, in a decadent, uncultured, biased society, people get stupid, ingorant... and vegan.

Pretty sad, indeed.

>>741953850
Normally, that would make sense
However, we're talking about a gigantic industry
One that has billions of consumers around the globe
Basically what you're suggesting is like tearing down a brick wall by punching it; technically, each punch IS making progress, but there are thousands of better ways of tearing down a brick wall.

>>741954349
man, learn english ffs, so hard to read after almost 300 posts of nonsense.
Animal agriculture is an industry

Industry starts cooking vegan meals
mate just stfu

Fallacies are not liberal you absolute low IQ moron. Then you tell me to open some books ahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahkpahdofjn\sdkvnpisfv\ omfg, you must be trolling, i refuse to believe a non diabled man can be thhis thick.

>>741954419
Western society is currently biased towards corpsemunching actually, evident by the fact vegans are a tiny minority.

>more baseless namecalling from the brainlet

Am i now debating the bottom of the barrel because the smart people have left?

welp, it was fun lads.