7% of the population are athiest, me included. please tell me

its not really about proof, but more the idea that there is something greater

>>738130572
you dont need religion for this

>>738130572
So you believe because you feel like it.

>>738130425
Hi dude, why do u even give ur opinion when u are a fucking fish ? Keep folowing the sea ;)

Start studying what is really god, and then u will give ur opinion ok?

>>738130765
topkek

>>738130425
I hope you die an atheist. I dont want you in my heaven.

your right you don't need a religion for this, its called being agnostic, however some believe the teachings of the church to be more true or buddhism etc.

>>738130901
Your heaven doesn't exist, so that was easy.

>>738130425
7% of the population are atheist, you included, please tell me how atheism isn't just a cult without a leader, and what are some actual evidence and PROOF that convinced you not to believe in a deity.

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People just run on feeling.
They haven't put thought into it.

>>738130976
>please tell me how atheism isn't just a cult without a leader
No doctrine.
>and what are some actual evidence and PROOF that convinced you not to believe in a deity
The failure of theists to back up their claims.

>>738130765
wut

>>738130901
ohhh i dont want to in my Valhalla

>>738130425
>>738130653
>>738130667
>>738130966
>>738130970
you're all faggots

>>738130425
The fact that you demand "proof" means you have no idea what religion entails. This is the greatest fallacy in atheist's arguments.

>>738130425
Well established religions are just there to make people less afraid of dying.

The more fringe ones almost exclusively have to do with sex in one way or another

>>738131065
At least we have more proof than "muh god did it"

>>738131113
Reminder that faith is a demonstrably unreliable method of knowing.

>>738130966
you see, they just believe that.Just to feel better. Sad part is some are using their relgion as an excuse for laws etc. Real world gives real evidence for that everything is amazing

I see religion more as a guideline with the basic idea being a good person to others and yourself

>>738131391
Use empathy

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It's just the total lack of evidence that gets me.
If I had never seen an apple or evidence that apples existed.
I would not believe existed.
I have never seen evidence dragons exist.
So I don't believe in dragons.
I have not seen evidence of god so I do not believe it exists.
Just seems foolish to run on feelings and what others tell you. People believe in ghosts and dragons. That does not make them real.

>>738131065
>no doctrine.
i thought your doctrine was that because you don't believe in god that no one else should and that you must wear a fedora.
>the failure of theists to back up their claims.
you also fail to back up your claims.
but if there is no god then why does prayer and faith often help people with pain and sorrow? then how does getting young trouble makers to spend time with the priests often make them stop causing trouble?

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there is no such thing as heaven, did you have a consciousness before you were born, did you think 'hurry up and give birth to me' no, you didnt know anything before you were born. same thing happens when you die, you just stop consciousness/thinking and you never really existed. sorry if you cant handle that. religious people are just scared

>>738130425
>Atheism is believing God does not exist.
>Atheism is a religious cult.
>Even science agrees with that statement.

Atheistic agnosticism is the most logical view right now, allowing humans to advance ethically, technologically and socially.

>>738131495
how would you know, you ain't dead

>>738131470
Empathy and having a guideline to better yourself seems to be different to me by definition

>>738131488
1. you thought wrong, that's antytheism
2. We dont claim anything, we just reject your claim

>>738131488
>i thought your doctrine was that because you don't believe in god that no one else should and that you must wear a fedora.
Nope. I don't even own a hat.
>you also fail to back up your claims.
Nope. I can back up the claim that theists fail to back up their claims.
>but if there is no god then why does prayer and faith often help people with pain and sorrow?
Placebo effect. Prayer effectiveness has been studied.
>then how does getting young trouble makers to spend time with the priests often make them stop causing trouble?
The priests rape them into submission.

>>738131583
what about ties to your blood and your forebears
would you forsake what was important to them?

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>>738130425
>Be me
>Atheist
>Decide not to be a faggot and keep it to myself

>>738131488
Sexual abuse make them traumatized

>>738131666
Well done.
Though, hail Satan.

>>738131639
and who doesn't want to get raped into submission by father john?

>>738131583
if you use just stuff that you like it's cool i guess, but if follow everything you are slave to that guidelines. You can use other works not only religionus as guidelines

>>738131639
this man owns no hats

>>738131666
We can talk about it. There's nothing faggoty here.

>>738130425
It is a cult, but the leader isnt dead

>>738131824
I'm just curious, what's the difference between a fedora and a black hat?

>>738131573
you will be in a second

>>738131720
>Though, hail Satan.
You're also an anarchist from Antifa who hates Trump, right?

>>738131885
? ?? ??? ??? ?? ?? ??? ??
because he's alive outside of time and space?

>>738131890
people like you

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>>738130425

>>738131921
Fuck those mask-wearing cucks.

Thinking they do things for the greater good while they're the most hateful.

>>738131910
its been a minute and i ain't dead, i guess you ain't the prophet

>>738131976
Smart, smartly put.

>>738131991
Hello my follow edgylord!

>>738130976

>proof in a negative

You fucking loonies and ur bullshit logic.

Prove god exist is not akin to prove god does not exist.

Good people do good things. Bad people do bad things. In order to get good people to do bad things, just add religion. Religion poisons everything.

People kill and rape using god as defence and I have problems with that.

>>738131991
>implying athiests believe in satan
>believes athiests believe in satan
>believes in satan

>>738131856
Yeah, but when you are a neckbeard debating everyone about atheism and thinking that they're stupid just for beliving in something that makes them happy, you come off as an annoying faggot

>>738132187
topkek

>>738131890
a fedora is a hat whereas a blackhat is a hacker with malicious intent.

Samefag here.
It's just the total lack of evidence that gets me.
If I had never seen an apple or evidence that apples existed.
I would not believe existed.
I have never seen evidence dragons exist.
So I don't believe in dragons.
I have not seen evidence of god so I do not believe it exists.
Just seems foolish to run on feelings and what others tell you. People believe in ghosts and dragons. That does not make them real.

>>738132187
This could be good, but-
You're missing some greentext to explain how, we can't laugh with this, yet

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>>738132015
im watching you

Atheist here, can confirm

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>>738132040
indeed

>>738132246
Huh, you're missing the point.

>>738130425
Religion is a very comforting idea. It's easier to cope with death when you believe you'll get to see them again. It's easier to cope with the horrible shit life throws at you when you believe it's all part of god's plan. It's easier to believe one day all of your problems will go away when you enter heaven, than it is to change the world to make it like heaven for everyone else. Religion is comfort food. It may not be good for you, but you refuse to let it go.

>>738132469
This

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>>738132398
I don't get your point.

>>738132213
"when you do that" then yes. But theist folks come off as an annoing faggots as well. Still they are using it hijack society, both muslims or chistians. Also if you care about truth false claim is still a false claim, no matter if they like it or not.

>>738131113

Yes. That's why religion has no place on a planet that is governed by the physics we understand today based on observables and repeatable experiments.

Instead of working just pray for food cuz your god always provides with what you need right? When you are really about to die of starvation ur god will come thru. Don't worry. Start now.

>>738132316
it is implying athiest believe in satan, but if the christian who wrote this is saying satan is real and athiests believe in it, then the christian technically believes in satan and not the athiest. now you may laugh

>>738132602
Topkek.

>>738131113
Yeah, it's crazy that i demand proof before i believe in something.

>>738132652
Being a Christian means you know Satan is real or something, so, that seems standard though

>>738131391
So you need religion to tell you this?

>>738132469
It's also easier if you don't try to blame or waste time trying to understand mind of some deity.

>>738131507
What science agrees with that statement?

>>738132652

Does Satan even exist outside of Christianity?

>>738130425

believing in god is such a irrelevant matter its realy weird how much shits gets flinged around it

religion is about things like mental hygiene, sets of if-then protocols that cooperate with or modify existing cultural codes and norms, a world system, a general 'operating system' for society often complete with whole languages and alphabets and scriptures ready, modes of conduct and modes of living etc...

off course all this is used to manipulate and control, but thats not a glitch, none of it is

these things crystalise in all human populations, same as traffic regulations or battle tactics, the tendency and the need for it is universal, the belief in god is nonesential

>>738132863
Physics and mathematicians working with physicists

>>738132863
there's no evidance for any deity in science. It's no telling you there isn''t one, it just don't proof any. So science is agnostic.

some posts on here are saying that religion is a way for (pussys) to cope with death. and other religions have some sexual or controlling purpose. but the question OP has asked still hasnt been answered. post actual proof and evidence "god" exists. no bs

>>738132770
>Be God
>Kills a fucking lot of Egyptian children because "muh people" and vengeance
>Still good and all love
>Difficult to understand

Seems like bad writing to me.

>>738132567
But you gotta understand something, it's a simple "mayority wins" situation.

Just because 90% percent voted pizza and 10% voted math exam, they can't make everyone get a math exam instead
But you have it different in the real world, you can have your atheism while the rest have religion, they're hapy like that and you're happy with yor atheism
You can't just make everything atheist instead of christian just because you don't like it

>>738132863

There's no particular "sect" of science that believes that. That's just science and logic as we know today. Science never claims to know anything. A scientist would claim the world is round and run repeatable experiments that anyone else can do to prove it is round. A religious person would say the world is flat because the pope said so and if you challenged him he would throw you in prison.

The entire concept of science is to observe our universe and have discussions about what these results mean. So science is fluid and dynamic and changing as technology allows us to see more vast and deeper into our universe.

That concept I find so much more comfort in than believing stories by a man in a funny hat.

>>738133054
In fact God in first harden the hard of Pharaoh and then reasles his vengeance on him because his heart was harden

>>738132970
Kinda, yeah.

As a Christian myself, personally I grew up with it. However, over the course of my life I've had many supernatural experiences, a couple of which even saved my life.

However, even if I hadn't had those experiences, I'd still say two things.

Firstly, that believing in any religion is a matter of being willing to submit yourself to a higher power. It's not a matter of "seeing is believing". You need to believe and exercise your beliefs in order to reap the benefits.

Second, that the story the world pushes for creation, most commonly being the big bang and evolution, simply doesn't make any mathematical sense. The math makes the fact that we exist at all seem almost a miracle. The number of requirements for life to exist on a planet is absurd. The fine tuning of things like physics, matter, and time itself realistically couldn't have been accidental.

>>738133176
so god's a dick
also he doesn't exist

>>738132953
>Physics and mathematicians working with physicists
>Physics working with physicists
kek

>>738133176

???

So god is petty and can't back down from being vengeful?

>>738133229
>religion is a matter of being willing to submit yourself to a higher power.
That's exactly why the elite want the peasants to be religious.

>>738133106
it's not about making them into atheist, it's about not leting them to "we can do that/we cant do that because god". Mayority wins and that why we need to debete, not just let them. They do the same.

>>738132970
>evidance
>dance

>>738133345
put your red shoese and dance with me

>>738133337
>we can do that/we cant do that because god
Example

religion is for fools

>>738133229
>submit yourself to a higher power.
Slavery.
God is Dicaprio and we are Django.

>>738133229
Why isn't it a matter of seeing is believing? I've never seen a dragon. I'm not going to believe in dragons until i see one. I've seen no evidence of a god. Why should i believe in one?

>>738130425
An ideology that serves me women on a Silver platter and the church punishes them If they leave. That's pretty good

>>738133433
I literally said
>reap the benefits

There’s no benefit to being a slave.

>>738130425
>7% of the population are athies

It's actually way the fuck higher. The vast majority of ostensible worshippers actually don't believe in shit, privately. But it's cultural, and pretending to believe is vital currency in their peer groups.

https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=MFH0i0KcE_o

SpaceX live launch!! Fuck these religious nuts stuck with their 2000 year old book. I'm watching science in progress!

>>738133229
>Second, that the story the world pushes for creation, most commonly being the big bang and evolution, simply doesn't make any mathematical sense. The math makes the fact that we exist at all seem almost a miracle. The number of requirements for life to exist on a planet is absurd. The fine tuning of things like physics, matter, and time itself realistically couldn't have been accidental
That's not how math works, that''s not how physics or biology works. Just because you feel it comforting to not understand something it doesn't mean it's doesnt make sense. It does.

>>738133550
Just like religion.

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Excluding all the historical proofs and scientifical proofs both don't make sense or have proofs. atheists believe that universe just existed and kept changing to its current form (why did that happen when the chance of that happening is 10^-1<alot of zeros>%, what explains the paranormal stuff, what explains consciousness)
Religious people believes that god created the universe and some believe it changed to its current form some believe it was the it is (why did god create us?, Why is there evil?)
Both don't make sense and both aren't answers and both don't answer the reason of existence. It's your choice and you know if it was right or wrong when you die. If you are atheist don't be salty and think you are better than others because you broke non existent wall. If you are religious don't tell people they're going to hell and think god loves you more

>>738133282
I think my post has a quite logical structure man, go back to skewwl.

Im atheist myself, but I wish you people would stop making these threads, Religion is very important for humanitarian reasons.

Look at China, the majority of which have no religion and what do you get? People running over kids and another 1000 people looking and not giving a fuck.

>>738133425
sharia law

>>738133478
Well I mean if you can't see any evidence then maybe you should actively look for it rather than expecting it to just fall into your lap? That's the way you're coming across, anon.

>>738133229
>The fine tuning of things like physics, matter, and time itself realistically couldn't have been accidental.
Says the puddle about the hole it finds itself in.

Go back far enough, and anything becomes mathematically improbable. That doesn't mean it was purposefully designed.

>>738133654
So?

>>738133604
no atheist just doen't belive in presented god. They can belive in facts they can belivie in aliens whatever they want. Atheism is about one statment

>>738133729
I think he means that even if a small percentage, religious people think more ethically because of it.

>>738130425
What we have today isn't actually religion. Christianity, Judaism, Islam, Hinduism, etc. By definition of what they are about and what they do is not religion. Religion is suppose to be a unifier and combining of differences for the benefit of all humanity. What these things are are nothing but cults that got too big. Humanity hasn't seen actual religion in about 5000 years.

>>738133723
so show me.

>>738133830
>By definition of what they are about and what they do is not religion.
kek

>>738133812
Oh, i got it.
He is retarded.

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>>738133604
>atheists believe

You can't make general statements about atheism. Athiesm is lack of membership in a group, not a group in itself. You can be completely atheist and not from a western nerd background.

Existential philosophy is a really vast and diverse thing. You could for example be a total solipsist and not really believe in the physical reality of "the universe" at all: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Boltzmann_brain

>>738133229

Math does not make us exist. It's one of the tools we use to explain why and how we exist. Science has not proven where we came from although there's currently strong evidence that we evolved from other animals just like every other living thing we share with the planet today.

>>738133723
Do you actively look for evidence to support every crazy claim you hear? How's your Bigfoot search going?

>>738133830
That number seems a bit awkwardly... Extreme actually, set your references on the table for an atheist agnostic

>>738133723
I've actively looked and found nothing.

>>738133729

What the fuck do you mean 'so?'

>>738133605
moar

You have never seen me, so I don't exist?

>>738133921
When I hear "no, he's just a kid." And "but, he has a family." all because of religion, I got to agree with him.

>>738133956
I've heard of baby's getting raped all around the world, thats enough proof of how good God is.

>>738133830

Can you hear yourself talk? Religion promotes unity? You do know the bible promotes hating gays/prostitutes and endorses slavery right? What part of that is unifying?

>>738134015
No, but you're typing and responding and interacting so i could make a reasonable assumption that you exist. Is this even a real question?

>>738134015
I have evidence that you do. Or maybe you are just pc bot. Your post.

>>738133921

No you missed it, you are the retarded little teenager

>>738134108
That would be hilarious

>>738133979
triggered

>>738134015
You posted on /b/, which is more than can be said for God.

>>738130425
Faith is a choice. I believe in God because I believe that God is the universe (learn about Spinoza's teachings; listen to Alan Watts).

>>738134038
Prove that those things are associated with religions.

>>738134071
Yeah, the god that lets people rape kids then says "i'm gonna punish you later." Rather than just stopping it. What a great god.

>>738134015

Observables is not the same as seeing. So while i haven't seen you I've read your words, and that gives me evidence you exist like I do. However I have also seen evidence of bots posting here so I cannot say for certain you are real.

>>738134183
that's pantheism, like Einstein he still was atheist

>>738130425
>7%
In what country?
It was 13% 15 years ago in the US, and religion just keeps decreasing in popularity. That 13% accounts for 90% of the scientists, and nearly all working artists, intellackkkshual employed by thinktanks, CEOs and billionaires, for better or worse. Most highly productive, overachieving subset of society, with Gays coming in a close second, only because homos are also nearly all included in that larger group.

In Europe it is much higher.

>>738134183
>Faith is a choice
Can you choose to have faith that the moon is made of green cheese?
>I believe that God is the universe
If God = universe, then the term God becomes redundant. Just call it the universe.

>>738134173
Watch your language, human.

>>738134186
True, true (except when they say this is about God), I'm not a phycologist, the only thing I can say is "fear".

>>738130425

OP, explain to me the origin of causality without using the phrase "first cause" or its functional equivalent.

>>738134086
It unifies the good people of the world against those who God hates.

>>738133664
Fair point, I'm not gonna defend muslims laws either, but remember, those countries are under full madman rule, they will eventually change some day.

>>738134217
Adolescent brain detected

>>738134157
Kek, muslins are very religious, that doesn't stop them committing mass rape and stoning people to death.

>>738134341
i know you are but what am i?

Nah it was just b8 m8, I'm religious but man these posts are complete shit holes, kinda fun to just muck through it all

>>738134293
What are you talking about. Causality works because time is liner. And time has point 0.

>>738131666
This guy gets it. Fucking atheists are worse than the fucking vegans with their proclamations....

>>738134341
How is what was said wrong?

>>738134307

So it actually segregates people is what you mean.

"God said I'm right and your wrong so I have moral superiority over you"

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>>738130425
>muh atheism
>muh religion is stupid
>muh you're all sheep
grow the fuck up, no one cares what, or what not, you believe in, niggerfaggot

>>738134319
> they will eventually change some day
I would preffer not to wait.

>>738134282
the population of the world dickhead, the majority of middle eastern countys are religious, did you put that in your equation? anyway no statistics would be spot on because every human on earth hasnt been in the same survey

>>738134444
Supremely check'd.

>>738134452
>:(

>>738134452
Muslims care enough to kill atheists with machetes in broad daylight.

>>738134444
The "people" God hates barely qualify as people.
If God says I'm right and you're wrong, I am morally superior to you. Nice quads though.

>>738131573
But you were.

>>738134528
What's wrong with you.

Wait what, God in the bible by definiton does not hate, only loves. Washing feets of prostitutes, giving to the people he hates most and hanging out with them, you don't know shit

What think damn it!
It's just the total lack of evidence that gets me.
If I had never seen an apple or evidence that apples existed.
I would not believe existed.
I have never seen evidence dragons exist.
So I don't believe in dragons.
I have not seen evidence of god so I do not believe it exists.
Just seems foolish to run on feelings and what others tell you. People believe in ghosts and dragons. That does not make them real.

>>738134534
>If God says I'm right and you're wrong, I am morally superior to you.
Why? What if I'm morally superior to God?

>>738131666
But the religious don't.

>>738134086
I did just call Christianity a cult, not religion. Learn to read the entire post, bud.

>>738133953
I might have high balled my number by about 250 to 500. My basis is all the history I've read about what conquering empires would do by snuff out most if not all conquered areas' beliefs.

>>738134585
That's not god though

>>738134585
Except the occasional genocide and torture by hellfire.

>>738134377

I dont really want to talk about Islam, but even if you were hit by a car in Dubai or Pakistan, someone would probably help you

>>738130572
There is something greater. We call it "everything that is, part of this reality, unified", or "universe".

I don't need to imagine a primitive, Bronze Age caricature of a grossly ignorant and violent arabic man at the head of it, just to see a familiar face and better relate to it. That's for children.

>>738134599
Impossible. God is the supreme moral authority by definition. Read your Bible.

>>738134534
I'm unchanging God, and even thou my moralty is superior to yours, my moralty changes because Jesus >:(

I stopped believing in Christianity as a kid because I couldn't reconcile how this religion was correct but every other one was apparently bullshit. That's something I'm always curious to hear godfags rationalize.

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>>738134531
pro tip: don't live in saudi arabia

>>738134585
That's not god, that Jesus.
Read your own fucking holy book you idiot.

>>738132484
But they're right.

Fair enough, Jesus* the person talked about in the bible

>>738134585
that's new testament you dick head, Jesus's cool guy, Big G is bitch

>>738134667
>God is the supreme moral authority by definition.
Why?
>Read your Bible.
The Bible saying something does not make it so.

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Shouldn't the burden be on OP to prove why religions are cults?

Anyway going off the generally accepted definition of cults: not all religions demand that you cut contact with sinners, give them the majority of your money, nor do the majority of religions rely on charismatic leaders to survive and propagate. You're going to have to be more specific and point to one religion or sect

>>738134683
I stopped when I saw how Christians act so hateful and against what they've been taught

>>738134745
If the Bible says something, it absolutely does make it so. It says so right in the Bible.

>>738134585
In the book of Judus, Jesus pushed a kid off a roof.
Was taken out of bible because bible to help cull masses against violence.
If your guna read the bible.
Read the whole thing.

Lmao chill, if you wanna be technical its three in one so I wasn't incorrect referring to God the father, anyway you get the point lmao

>>738134501
Holy fuck, anon either destroyed the entire mathematical field of statistics, or himself, with a single sentence.

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>>738134528
>emoticons

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>>738134709
Or Bangladesh.

>>738134429

The point is that infinite regress is a problem for purely mechanistic worldviews. Science says everything must have a cause. However, the natural outcome of this way of thinking is an infinite regress. It would mean that time does not have a point 0, as you yourself state that it does.

Therefore, the first cause in the chain must necessarily be a cause that doesn't need a cause - an uncaused first cause. Think it through.

>>738134722
Jesus was fine, he's actually one of the best persons to believe in, as a human.

>>738134836
that was ironic, but ty for being atustic

>>738134650
Kek, they would let me die because i am a infidel.
Go back to Narnia where all is good.

>>738133926
>Atheists leave religion just because they feel special and that they don't belong to it And they don't believe in god nor in that universe existed on its own

>>738134745
lol This isn't "hey I'll just make up my own bible, and my own Christianity as I go", Thomas Jefferson, who do you think you are?

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>>738134904
im gonna be atustic all i want faggot

>>738134879
The morality of Jesus is overblown. Try actually reading the sermon on the mount sometime. It's dangerously naive at best.

>>738131991
>8:80 a.m.
What in the almighty fuck?

That has nothing to do with who he liked and dislikes, don't see a reason to bring that up. Adam and eve sinned therefore we deal with the consequences aka genocide death and sorry, humans weren't originally made to experience death hence why its so devistating

>>738134860
I need to think it through because to don't undersyand math and physics?

>>738134914

I can tell you have never even left your country of birth, I would go as far to say you havent even left your room this week

>>738134952
Everyone makes up their own Christianity. Why else would there be thousands of denominations and disagreement within even those?

>>738130425
god is not supposed to exist , its a symbol of some values and a reason to party n shit with others in the same cult

>>738134996
Agreed.
I will read everything I can from these religious books (Bible, Quran, etc) for only then I can actually speak my mind freely about these.

>>738134999
Two people did something God doesn't like, so he punishes an entire species for eternity? Sounds like the biggest asshole in the universe.

>>738134855
Filename... my sides...

>>738134933
nice try pope

>>738135016

You're demonstrating an unwillingness to think about this because it challenges your worldview. That's a bad way to behave for someone that claims to respect science.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XWWVa2fZLPI&t=29s

That's humans fault, the persons fault not the religions, stick with it and he the the example of what were supposed to be

>>738130425
Religion is based on faith. We dont need to prove anything to you if you cant develop the ability to have faith.

Remember seeing is not believing.
However you can always try being more religious and assess how it changes your life if you need some tangible proof.

>>738131991
Satan doesn't answer my skype calls anymore.

>>738130425
The bible is the word of God, so it is evidence. Because it's his word.

>>738135117
Don't be an atheistophobe.

>>738130667
> That's pretty much what all belief is predicated upon. You can deny all sorts of shit despite (sometimes overwhelming) evidence. We've got holocaust deniers, climate change deniers, flat-earthers, you name it. They genuinely believe they are right.

Ultimately, religion is a coping-mechanism to try and make sense out of something that is a complete mystery. Whatever keeps you sane is fine by me. Just spare me the Proselytism.

>>738135016
>you don't understand

>>738135048
>Implying
If you say so, friendo.
But im not the person who believes in something because a book says so, bye now, i have to go to Hogwarts.

>>738133654
All i get from that is that Gooks are naturally not good people

>>738135201
How do you develop the ability to have faith?
How do you address the fact that people can believe literally anything on the basis of faith?

>>738134683

4000 Religions, Mine is REAL other 3999 is fake says all Religions.

>>738135209
That's circular reasoning, and it doesn't prove anything.

>>738135188
No, you just mixing things that are not related to each other.

new continued thread
>>738135298
inb4 404

If u need proof become a Mormon, OOOHHHH SHIT I HAD A SPOOKY MORMON HELL DREAM LAS NIGHT

>>738135351
to get faith:
remove brain
insert bible

God gave them absolute luxury and told them there is only 1 rule, don't eat the apple they lived perfect lives of happines, the devil then tempted them into eating the apple, the apple is the fruit of the knowledge of good and evil, when humans were made they only knew good and only acted good, the fruit gave them knowledge of evil and there fore the ability to commit it and sin

>>738130425
I take it you've never heard thunder before?

>>738134765
This is exactly why it's so easy to counter the whole "you need religion for morality" argument. You show me one guy who adheres to the love-thy-neighbor teachings of Jesus and I'll show you ten people who legitimately believe in the bible and cheat on their spouse, steal things, slack off at work 90% of the time, hate people who are different from them for no other reason, etc. Why aren't these true believers using that oh so profound religious moral compass?

People are usually shitheads, whether they believe in a deity or not. Morals come from a mixture of upbringing, culture, and discipline. If you're not working on yourself to make up for the shortcomings in any of those 3 sources of moral teachings, you're going to be an asshole.

>>738135406
Too soon.

>>738135298

>>738135387
Prove circular reasoning

>>738130425
Damn, your smart. Starting flame wars about religion on 4chan. Damn. Your a fucking genius.

>>738135445
What an awesome fairytale.

>>738135367
>says all Religions

Not even the first of the Abrahamic faiths says that. Judaism believed other gods existed, but that theirs was their patron and most powerful.

There are plenty of others that don't say "our religion is the only right one!" Hinduism, Ba'hai, the various old world pagan religions... The list goes on and on.

Wat about your science book?

>>738135479
teach me your ways

>>738135219
The only fear I have with them is for my ears due to their autistic screeching over the word "God" being on a dollar bill...

>>738135475
What about God's tax policy?

>>738135395

How are they unrelated? I genuinely would like to know.

Like evolution?

>>738135564
How would you feel if our money said "In Mohammad we trust" instead?

>>738131921
Think the Satan thing was referencing the trips

>>738135591
>tfw god turns out to be a cultural marxist

>>738134628

Religion and cult is pretty much different words for the same thing. Just one has a negative connotation while the other doesnt. Anyways that's a moot point.

What doesn't change is that the religious teachings today are ethnically and morally wrong and cannot be proven by science.

>>738135594
I told you that, by science time has point 0. and you are making philosophy out of this

>>738135509
Circylar reasoning: It's true because the bible says so. The bible is the word of god. God is always truthful.

It's like it was wrapped up in that nice little bow to keep believers believing.

>>738135591
Fuck that shit. I'm supposed to give 10% of all my income to the Mormon church. Ide rather kms.

>>738135628
Most likely indifferent.

>>738135623
evolution is a fact, sorry fam.

Asking for proof of God is futile, as faith is more based in personal experience than scientific proof. It's a fair argument if someone is trying to convert you; 'wheres the proof?', but it doesn't hold up as a scrutiny of other peoples belief systems. You can't experience someone else's life, so you can't say that their experiences are invalid even if you personally disagree with their views.

I think the idea of religion as a cult comes from the abuse of religion rather than religion itself. If someone has faith thrust upon them and dissenting thoughts are controlled, it's a cult for sure. That's not the experience I have at my local church or temples though, I have had plenty of discussions with people with different points of view who are all looking to understand faith more rather than indoctrinate me to their way of thinking.

I think religion has a lot of practical benefits; it helps you put things into perspective and make some sense of your self and your place in the world. It has many acts, such as meditation, which are picked up by modern medicine as a way of dealing with stress. There's plenty to get out of it. Not to say everyone needs religion to get these benefits; I'm sure many people get that from other things, but it for sure can be a force for good to many people.

>>738135475
Exactly.
That's why I grew up thinking EVERYONE just wears a mask for everything and we live in a lie.
That's why my hero is Diogenes and I'm cynical as that philosophy was created for a reason.

>>738135697

No, anon. I'm using logic, not philosophy. Logic is the underpinning of all science.

Lmao saying it is doesn't make it one, sorry fam. P.S. it isn't a fact ask anyone who is a evolutionists

Was muslim until i was 24. I realized that i only belived because i was told to. Now as atheist religios people seem like star wars fans who took it to far or like one of those kids who watch a cartoon and think they can fly like supermen. In Nietsche´s spirit suck my small german dick Allah

>>738131507
Agreed

>>738135823
ok, time still has point 0, there's no infinte regression

Okay I'm abandonning. I realize a lot of these people do not see the difference between the scientific method and it's importance in living in a physical universe to believing a religion.

The amount of brain washing religious people have incurred is frightening. I pity you.

>>738135819
If you're concerned about moral compasses and bettering yourself for arbitary reasons like the anon you replied to, I don't think you understand the philosophy of Diogenes. This is a man who lived in a barrel because he believed the daily life of society was a triviality.

>>738135931

Exactly. That's the whole point. If time has a 0 point (which it does), then not everything must have a cause. Ergo, something exists uncaused.

What that something is, nobody can know or claim to know, but it certainly doesn't obey the rules of a purely mechanistic universe. A purely mechanistic universe -requires- everything to have a cause.

All we can say about it for sure is that an uncaused first cause exists.

>>738135985
Live and let live bro. No need pitying someone because they don't see eye to eye. If their religion isn't getting in the way of your life, who are you to say it's wrong?

I'd take a deluded religious person over a self indulgent egotist any day.

>>738136127
>it certainly doesn't obey the rules of a purely mechanistic universe.
>A purely mechanistic universe -requires- everything to have a cause.
Oh? What if one of the rules of a purely mechanistic universe is that it exists?

>>738135553

What science book? You mean the experimental results that scientists publish and the theories they hypothesize from it?

Science doesn't have one book. Science is a collection of data and people around the world theorize about what these results may mean. Then when people have differing theories, they do experiments to try and prove or disprove themselves to gain more information.

Thats one of the many differences in how science and religion works. Don't confuse the church of Scientology with anything to do with science. That's a giant scam disguised as religion.

>>738136162
Self indulgent egotists are the leaders of the atheist cult.

>>738136258
>What if one of the rules of a purely mechanistic universe is that it exists?

Now who is trying to use philosophy instead of logic? The rules of a purely mechanistic universe are observable and well documented by science, which I respect and you say that you do.

>>738130425
93% of the population are dumb uneducated or (((homeschooled))) retards. Be glad you are one of the Alpha Fucks.

>>738136127
You see you use philosophy. There was no time, no space, no laws as we know it before point 0. From that point we have all we have, timespace, laws cause and effect etc. From scientific point of view there's no point in asking questions that can't be answerd. Still we have hypothesis of multiverse, infinite universe that end it's cycle and rebirths with again from point 0 etc. Lack of evidence is not evidence.

>>738136378
sorry that was someone else not me

>>738136398
thx fam

>>738136352
I don't want to generalize as I think most atheists are no different to most religion fags, but threads like this make me wonder. These guys are the atheist equivalent of the people who knock on your door to shill their religion rather than letting people make their own minds up. They need to shove their own beliefs into your face for validation or something.

>>738136162
>if their religion isn't getting in the way of your life

This is the thing though: religion gets in the way of every life on the planet. Just because someone didn't use their religious beliefs to directly murder you does not mean that a heap of religious people on Earth does not affect a non-religious person's life. There are millions of people in the US who use their religious beliefs to justify terrible decisions that affect all of us. As much as I think fedoras are shit people, I still think it's important to try to bring some sense to religious people from an agnostic atheist POV that they otherwise wouldn't get in their daily lives. Ultimately, they have an imaginary friend and they are forcing others to sanction this, in much the same way that transgenders want society to pretend like they're not just men/women who surgically removed their penises/vaginas.

>>738136378
That was my first time replying to you.

>The rules of a purely mechanistic universe are observable and well documented by science
We continue to make discoveries, and in science we know not to apply "rules" in situations where they do not apply (e.g. classical mechanics in situations where you should use quantum mechanics).

>>738136162

I pity them not because we don't see eye to eye but rather cuz they don't see the beauty of living in a world of logic and reasoning.

Cancer survival rates has gotten better over the last 20 years across the board because of medical advances not because people prayed more or studied the bible more. There's certain disappointment when people reject science and medicine for religion.

>>738136127
>purely mechanistic
not true for our universe

>>738136427
>You see you use philosophy.

Where?

>There was no time, no space, no laws as we know it before point 0.

Completely agreed.

> From that point we have all we have, timespace, laws cause and effect etc.

I would say all we know.

>From scientific point of view there's no point in asking questions that can't be answerd.

Agreed. I'm also happy to see that you admit that you can't answer the question of what the nature of the uncaused first cause is.

>Still we have hypothesis of multiverse, infinite universe that end it's cycle and rebirths with again from point 0 etc.

I know. This has no bearing on what I am saying. For the record, what I am saying is there must exist an uncaused first cause, simply because time has a point 0. The logic is inescapable.

>Lack of evidence is not evidence.

Agreed. I didn't say it was. What I said was evidence cannot be had on the nature of the uncaused first cause, but we do know from simple logic that it must exist. Again, it must exist because time has a point 0.

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>>738136307
Not this guy, but just to clarify...
Scientology is a giant scam, but so is all religion. Scientology is just easier to discredit because it was created during a period of well recorded history and greater scientific understanding. In other words, most people saw right away that it's bullshit. Mormonism gets that to a lesser degree, but it still gets more religion cred.

Back when Christianity was established, people still had strange ideas about natural events and phenomena, so it was easier to instill the mythos. Similar to the Greeks thinking Zeus was throwing around lightning.

tl;dr The later in human history a religion is established, the easier it is to dismiss. But they are all bullshit established to gain power, control, and money.
>Buddhism is pretty okay though, as it's mostly inner focus with less mystical beings you obey mindlessly.

Crap. My break is over.

>>738136352

Theres no leaders in atheism wtf. It relies on everyone to hypothesize about the meaning of current real world data and what it means.

I hope you're trolling me but if you come from a country that doesn't have science classes or puts them as equal importance to religion studies then I understand.

>>738132949
Interesting way to look at it. Well put.

>>738136867
>But they are all bullshit
The truth can be so simple

I'm agnostic myself and obviously cannot offer an proof of God's existence. However I would caution you not to discount religion completely. Religion exists to provide meaning in the lives of millions. In this way they are never forced with confronting absurdism. Atheists like to fancy themselves stronger than theists because they say they are comfortable with a life devoid of absolute meaning. That's somewhat hollow though, because they simply replace this divine meaning with one they arbitrarily choose, (video games, food, sex, fitness, etc) and live on. At some point simple basic pleasures no longer satisfy the atheist though, and so they adopt deeper meanings. Family, fulfillment,etc. Still arbitrary, but more complex. A well adjusted atheist eventually comes back around and finds meaning in pretty much the same things a theist would, community, legacy, etc. The only difference is the atheist knows it's hollow. All theology does is allow people the oppertunity to take a short-cut to a purpose. Perhaps religion cheapens the process of cultivating meaning, but many times people don't have the time or ability to confront "the void" and emerge unscathed. (Many Atheists get extremely jaded.) Essentially religion is an easy way to purpose, and sometimes there's nothing wrong with people choosing the path of least resistance.

Uncaused first cause proponent anon here. 4 or 5 people have jumped into the discussion on whether or not an uncaused first cause exists, and it has become to hard to track while I am also working. I'm abandoning the discussion, but I urge everyone to read about the nature of causality.

Also beware of people that say either "I know what the first cause is" or "the idea of a first cause is absurd". Nobody can know what it is, and if they can't see that it exists, they lack either the intellectual wherewithal to discern it for themselves or the humility to admit that they could be wrong. Neither of those traits are fit for people of science.

>>738136844
I guess we can just agree, too many people are interrupting

>>738137101
kudos anon

>>738136635
>Ultimately, they have an imaginary friend and they are forcing others to sanction this,

You've created a straw-man of a religious person based on what you assume they all must be like; evangelical, not rational, backwards. I agree there is a problem with some religious practices like evangelical preaching/conversion and oppression of people through religion, but that's a problem with practice rather than religion itself. I know that this straw-man can't be accurate to every religious person, no one at the churches I go to (myself included) is like how you describe.

The problem here is generalizing some religious people to all religious people. If you can show me some proof that a majority of religious people act like you say then I'd change my mind of course.

>>738137057
As far as religion causing violence goes, i've been more incline to believe religion is a vehicle to justify the violence rather than the cause of violence. Humans are violent creatures, with or w/o religion. Leaders use religion as a scapegoat to enter wars for money/power/glory etc. Without religion they would simply use another vehicle. While I'll admit religion is a damn accommodating vehicle for violence, I believe the actual cause of the violence rests in human nature.

>>738131479
The whole idea is that you have faith in something greater. You have nothing o lose by believing. Just a bunch of virgin losers making fun of you on an internet board. And if it is real you go to heaven. That's how I see it.

>>738137477
This
H
I
S

>>738137492
>You have nothing o lose by believing.
What if there is a god, but it hates believers and sends you to hell for believing?

>>738137101
Whether there is an uncaused first cause or not, either way, that is not evidence or an indication of a deity.

>>738138033

What if Anita Sarkeesian is right about everything? I mean, if we're gonna bring up absurd what ifs...

>>738138125

No shit. He said that over and over.

>>738138169
It's no more or less absurd than your what if. There's no reason to think either is true.

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>>738138169
Let's not get crazy now.

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>discussing religion unironically
>lel

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>>738138259

>>738138169
Anita Sarkeesian is right about everything. Anyone who believes otherwise will be forced to spend eternity watching Amazing Atheist videos.

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Walk the path of enlightenment and all questions will be answered

>>738130425
Pll believe because they are afraid of not existing anymore after death, newfriend. At a certain age you realize that magic doesnt exist, so there is no mighty sorcerer who can turn water into wine.
At this point they realize it's all lies and if they'd accept the truth there wouldnt be any justice or paradise or anything. No reward for being a good person doing good things, no punishment for the evil.
They have to make a decision if they want to live in the depressive reality that results out of accepting the truth or if they want to carry on like they did. Most choose the second. It's also the reason why we dont have religious radicals like 3rd world countries. These ppl are so uneducated they actually believe the shit thats written in the bible or the koran. If anyone here would truly believe what the bible says they'd be forced to live in a way that would be considered pretty strange by most so called "christians". Look at medieval ages and how christians lived there before they realized that the bible is bullshit in the late 19th century. They would have killed atheist for being blasphemic just like muzzies do today. Sure there were some nations where you were allowed to choose your fate (cause these nations were constructed by educated ppl), but retards from your village would still lynch you.

>>738139325
True enlightenment is realizing that you'll never have all the answers.

>>738139865
Real enlightment is when you realize there is no enlightment, no higher level of conciousness a human being can archieve and that faggots like you who claim to be enlighted while not being able to answer shit are worse than the retarded starving monks who at least try to archieve the unarchievable instead of just pretending.

>>738140027
Shots fired!

>>738132316
There are theists, those who believe in something and atheists, basically meaning 'not theists', who dk not believe in anything. To say that an atheist believes in Satan is contradictory because then he would be a theist.

>>738140027
>Real enlightment is when you realize there is no enlightment
Contradiction.