Ever wonder how Americans can be patriotic and also against religious

>>736239144
Saying "hey, we don't owe an immigrant a fucking thing, so we should control who comes over" is not even remotely similar to "you are not allowed to believe X"

But I'm pretty socially liberal, so I'm not the guy you're trying to ask.

>>736239594
I get where you're coming from, but I wasn't talking about immigration policy. I more so mean the people who believe we are in a war with Islam, and that it should be eradicated.

>>736240036
Because it should be eradicated, fuck Islam and those who believe in it

>>736240173
Okay, and persecuting people for their religion doesn't seem odd to you as an American?

>>736240036
Fair enough.

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>>736239144
FTFY
>pic related

>>736240308
If they just practice it, thats fine. By eradicate it, I meant the radicalized sects of it. The people who run around slaughtering people for literally no reason other than some old fucker in a book told them to, need to be fucking wiped from the face of the planet, no matter the religion.

>>736240308
Their religion literally states that all non believers must be executed. A religion like that has no place in a modern society

Patriotism and religious beliefs have nothing to do with each other. No hypocrisy there.

>>736239144
I'm not American, but I hate Islam. I hate anything that fundamentally disagrees with my way of life, and Islam happens to be one of those things I can't agree with. I don't want to see it spreading in my country.

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>>736240524
are u sure?

>>736240547
See, that's common ground. However, the vast majority of Islam doesn't practice sharia law, or commit extremists acts. Even those Muslims who favor Sharia usually don't believe in everything it might entail. These numbers are pretty revealing http://www.pewforum.org/2013/04/30/the-worlds-muslims-religion-politics-society-beliefs-about-sharia/. The same source also has data showing that the vast majority of Muslims do not support extremists. Why then is it Islam that you are against?

>>736240623
And the Old testament states that children who disrespect their parents should be stoned to death, among a ton of other terrible things. If Christianity has a right to move past that, why doesn't Islam?

>>736240724
Except America was founded on religious freedom, as it was born from religious persecution in Europe. It's also in our constitution.

>>736241974
Because overall most Muslims are conservative with beliefs we consider contrary to western values. You have like 5000 muslims marching in places like Germany that are pissed off at a showing of Muhammad being gay but cant even get more than 1000 to protest Islamic terrorism.

they're not against religious freedom they're against child rape and terrorism

>>736242326
Again, is that truly a symptom of Islam, or of the entire culture that exists in those places. You look at Muslims around the world and you find far less conservatism.

>>736242414
As are most Muslims, according to Pew Research Center. It is not an intrinsic belief of Islam, or a popular one.

>>736242524
It's both honestly.

>You look at Muslims around the world and you find far less conservatism

What? Muslims are overwhelmingly more conservative outside the West than in it.

>>736242614
there's over 10 countries in the world who execute gays, they are ALL Muslim countries. When polled, a huge fraction of Muslims believe in shariah law and killing apostates and homosexuals. Islam is an evil religion

>>736242631
We misunderstood each other. The vast majority of Muslims who are religiously conservative live in places like Afghanistan, and only make up a tiny portion of the global population - indicated by the data I linked earlier. As such, those conservative beliefs can't be a defining quality of Islam. Rather, they speak volumes about the countries that still support them.

>>736242707
Yes, but those countries do not represent Islam. The global population is far more significant and does not share their beliefs.

when a specific religion has a tenancy to blow up significantly more people, said religion tends to loose privileges/ rights

>>736242838
But it's not just limited to Afghanistan. Apostasy, gay rights, women's rights are all abysmal throughout the Islamic world, even in "moderate" places like SE Asia where female police recruits have to undergo a hymen check to see if they are still virgins.

>>736242955
Islamic scripture does. And killing apostates and gays is part of the religion. Sorry u lose dumbass.

>>736242955
>but those countries do not represent Islam.

Literally called Islamic Republics representing Islam.

>>736243011
Islamic scripture represents the Islamic community no more than biblical scripture represents the Christian community, see >>736242077

>>736242993
You're right, it's not limited to, but there is a clear majority if you look at the data. This means that those things do not represent Islam as a whole, and so it's persecution for their sake is unjustified. More than that, it's unAmerican.

>>736243101
And that would matter if the majority of Muslims lived there. They don't.

>>736242077
you really think they've moved past throwing people off buildings, and stoning others to death? The Old testament is Old for a reason, it's outdated and was moved away from.

>>736243117
To reply to your other comment, Christians don't follow the OT, they follow the New Testament which is watered down. Christianity and the West also went through the Enlightenment and became weak. Does Islam have a New Testament or has it gone through it's own reformations and shit? No.
>>736243260
Most Muslims support it?
>>736243304
They don't have to live there. You can't act like there's only one representation of Islam. Islamic Republics are one representation of Islam, not the only one. Most do live in Asia, but Asia isn't the height of modern civilization either, certainly not SE Asia.

>>736243394
I think they have in many placed. For instance, my Muslim friends here in the U.S. would never do those things. Not only that, they're fairly secularized. Still, they are Muslim, and they have a right to their religion.

Moderate muslims are almost as worthless as citizens as radicals, they're welfare munchers and they will NEVER contribute more to the country they inhabit than they steal.

Fuck them all, grind them into gutter oil and sell it to china.

>>736243516
Because they live in the West, particularly America. Muslims in the West and especially America compared to Europe are fairly secularized, compared to the rest of the world.

Most Nazi's didn't support mass slaughter of Jews either but it was a part of their doctrine and when they gathered enough strength in numbers to cause the rest of the world a problem we had to eliminate them.
Which is exactly what we should be doing with Islam now. And when enough Christians gather to try and form their own country by force, using biblical law and terror we should stamp them out too.

Oh there are good Muslims? Too bad. Fuck 'em. And shame on them.
There were plenty of "good Nazi's" in Germany too.

>>736239144
Islam takes away everything that makes you American. That is individuality and self responsibility.

Islam is a Religion as much as Communism is an economic theory.
It is a collectivist way of live with its own set of rules and the complete opposite of what the US stands for.

>>736243499
Yes, that was my point. Christians don't do those things anymore, as most Muslims don't do the things in their religious texts anymore. Still, Islam is behind in that regard. Do the religion not deserve the chance to continue to develop/improve? And, more importantly to this thread, doesn't taking that away go against the ideals of America itself?

Also no, most Muslims are not in support of strict sharia law, according to data provided by the pew research center.

Finally, your argument is like saying Rome represents Catholicism as a whole, and sometimes even Christianity. In some ways yes, but not in the ways that matter to this discussion.

>>736243670
And that is exactly my point. It doesn't suddenly become a new religion in those cases. It can be practiced respectfully, peacefully, and in accordance with western values. Those things which appose this perspective are not defining aspects of Islam, and so not a fair basis for it's persecution as a whole.

I find it amazing that anyone could with a straight face post words like "religion" and "hypocrisy" with a clearly judging tone on 4chan. This post was between a dick rate and fur porn thread. Fucking kek

Because you're crazy

>>736239144
piss off islam liberal faggot

>>736243516
sure, but a literal reading of the scripture endorses Jihad and commands horrible acts. To say that organizations like Isis don't represent Islam at all is insanity. A huge reformation is needed to even start to claim that Isis isn't actual Islam

>>736244025
If my tone came off as one of judgement, that was a mistake. While I am playing the role of opposition in this debate, I am not totally in accordance with what I'm saying. This is an exercise to me. Moreover, I do not see hypocrisy as a bad thing, as I explained in the first post. From my perspective, everyone is a hypocrite, and understanding why gives true insights.

>>736243863
Sure Islam can grow but it means fuck all if American Muslims become modernized when the rest of the Islamic world won't. Islam confined to the US is meaningless in the big picture. Sure American Islam can branch out but if the change doesn't come from within, it can be branded as heresy. Hell, Islamic radicals already preach Western Islam as false Islam.

And I never said they support strict Sharia law, but like I said, most Muslims do not agree with homosexuality, most Muslims believe in punishment for leaving Islam, most muslims believe in punishment for criticizing the religion. Most Muslims are way more conservative than the average Westerner, and even average Western religious Christian.

And yes, the Vatican does represent Catholicism, but like I said, there isn't one representation of Catholicism, but it is one FACE of Catholicism like those Islamic Republics are one FACE of Islam, bad PR from the Islamic Republics is bad PR for Islam.
>>736243968
I don't agree with the blantant persecution like the rest of these edgelords, but I do agree we need to criticize Islam.

>>736244247
And a literal reading of Jewish scripture would make them an equally evil enemy to the U.S.

Even though I do believe that people should be free to believe whatever they want, I also believe that islam, and all religions for that matter, bring nothing good, and often promote retarded behavior.

>>736239144
Islam is a cult not a religion.

>>736244333
Not the point, the point was that maybe the /b/ board of 4chan might not be the place for a theological thought appreciation jackoff session. Just something to nibble on for you.

>>736244533
A cult is a religion who's leader has yet to die. Are you saying their profit is alive? You know that they just name their kids that right?

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>>736243260
Then clean them up and we will talk. Until then. Stay there reform the law where you are to what you wish. We do not want you in the USA trying to reform our laws.

>>736244603
Why not? I've been doing this since 07. I've learned a lot from people here.

>>736244456
only if they chose to act upon them all the sudden- in which case I would endorse fighting the Jews. I could care less if people don't want to face the fact that their own religion says they're going to hell for not killing the gays, if they don't do it then their stupid book can say whatever the fuck it wants

Isis is doing exactly what their scripture demands!!
Muslims that don't support Isis aren't against what they are doing because they are doing exactly what the Prophet commands!! The ones that don't support Isis just don't think it's time to do all of this yet.
Do you realize that?!

>>736244676
I'm a white Christian male living in the U.S.
I go on missionary trips, but have never set foot in the Middle East. If I had, I may not have had a need for this discussion. In any case, you're being rather presumptuous.

>>736244735
That's the thing, most Jews don't act on them, and neither do most Muslims act on their older scriptures. The real problem is the acting, not the scripture, yes?

And I mean, the U.S. has taken down plenty of religions/cults who tried to evade US law at the expense of its citizens. Religious freedom doesn't protect violence, only the god you pray to and how you do it.

We believe that America is malleable. The founding fathers of America believed that the state should be capable of change, that it shouldn't be set in stoned.

We are patriotic because we believe that if we can make America a Muslim majority, we can use that majority to democratically make denying Allah is the one true god a capital crime.

And all we have to do in order to accomplish this is out breed you.

>>736244738
If Christians started doing what the Old Testament demanded, we wouldn't blame the Old Testament. Same goes to the Jews. No, it's the people we'd condemn.

>>736240524
Much better.

>>736245059
>The real problem is the acting, not the scripture, yes?

No, the fact that people aren't acting on old scripture should be celebrated. This is why Christians made the New Testament, because the OT was outdated. Judaism and Islam don't really have this.

>>736245154
I can tell you're afraid. I'm not.

>>736245353
I fear nothing but the judgement of God.

>>736245332
And yet Judaism is very modern and well aligned with the U.S. (haaaave you seen Israel?). That was my point. It's the culture that needs to change, not the scripture. It's happened before, it will happen again, and religious persecution isn't required.

>>736245059
actions are what matter, but what I'm saying is that to make the claim that any group of extremists don't represent that religion in some part is ridiculous

>>736245413
Oh, so all those things you described aren't scary to you? Why bring them up. I too find them unlikely.

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>>736244676
>you're being rather presumptuous.

Yes yes I am.
I am on a website reading text limited by what ever you choose to type.

I can ask or I can assume.

I chose to save time and assume.

BTW no one truly meets the definition of Christian. Except for Christ himself.

Islam has chosen to extract all the rules and call them laws and hold others to a standard they themselves can not and will not live up to.

They are as hypocritical as the High Priests who wanted to stone the whore.

I am against organized religion of any kind having any say in politics or law.

Teach the law.
Struggle to follow the law.
Never dare to enforce it.

(I mean religious law. Clearly if we democratically agree to criminal laws THOSE should be enforced.)

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We're fully for religious freedom, that's why there's no issue for jews, hindus, sihks, atheists, etc. It's only Islam. So why is this? Because we have other values, like equality for women, not fucking goats, and religious freedom, which are all against the core tenants of muslim culture and scripture.

>>736244854

Sorry this was for you .>>736245599

>>736240524
be careful not to cut yourself from all the edginess

>>736245483
There was that whole religious persecution of Jews thing during WWII so yeah those that survived left to Israel and other places, but most Jews are pretty tame and many will say theyre only culturally Jewish and not really religious. Many say theyre atheist. And also Israel is an ally due to the fact that we send them money. They wouldve became Russia's ally if we didn't.

And both can change. There is zero point in having outdated scripture if it is irrelevant if no one pays attention to it anyway.

But yeah I', the dude that says we dont need persecution but we do need criticism.

>>736239144
If Nazism was re-branded a religion and indoctrinated into low IQ browns with beards, you neo-lib cucks would still be accepting. #NOTALLNAZIS

>>736245520
Is it really? Sure it's not very common these days, but with the Klan goes around killing people in the name of god they represent Christianity? Even those most Christians condemn their actions?

Yes, the religion is part of the cause of violence, but that says nothing about EVERYONE who practices said religion - just those extremists who agree.

>>736240308
Did you forget the Bible says to kill homosexuals and adulterers?

>>736245214
>>736245214
Bullshit.
If they screamed "In Jesus name Alilililiilieluuuuuyahhh!" Every fucking time they did it and started offering garuntee do trips to heaven for blowing themselves up and causing terror.
If they killed thousands in the name of the Old Testament while trying to build a new country to be run by biblical law, you bet your ass we would blame the Old Testament.
Because just like with Islamic extremists, they would give us no choice but to blame the book.

>>736245599
>BTW no one truly meets the definition of Christian. Except for Christ himself.
I can see we disagree in many areas, including the interpretation of our shared religion. I'm of the belief that Christ was a Jew, and that his disciples, the first followers of Christ, were the first Christians. Thus, to be a follower of Christ is to be a Christian.

I'm not sure how that was terribly relevant to the discussion at hand, but I'm curious about your thoughts on my perspective.

>>736245815
The Klan don't do it in the name of Christianity though. Sure they have religious symbolism, but they never say they do it to spread Christianity, or follow the Bible or because the people they lynch arent Christian. They pretty openly say they do it because they hate niggers and non White people.

Plus the Klan isnt world wide, just pockets mainly in the South and is limited to the US. If there were Klans worldwide, or if the Klan was making a global impact then you would have a point.

>>736242077
1. Because the new testament overrides the old in cases where they conflict. New testament teaches forgiveness and to judge not, which renders the old testament moot.

2. Because Christians have demonstrated they've moved past it. When was the last time they've stoned a child to death? On the other side, this year the ramadan bombathon has killed thousands so far.

>>736246073
Out of curiosity, do you believe Christ was "god" or just a prophet?

>>736245790
>There is zero point in having outdated scripture if it is irrelevant if no one pays attention to it anyway.
So your're against the Old Testament being in the bible? And what, you believe it's corruption Christianity?

>>736239144
Now that I think about it, I've never heard someone accused of Buddhistophobia

>>736243394
Then why the fuck do they use the Old Testament to justify homophobia and shutting women up? Some pastors even called for death of homos. Pat Robertson fucking donated to African countries just to support them jailing or killing homos.

>>736245921
But Christians did those sorts of things and worse in the name of the Old Testament. Yet, it still exists in the religion.

>>736246248
I've been accused of Christophobia.

>>736246186
Since most Christians only follow the NT, then yeah. Most Christians will say the OT are just references and stories not to be taken literally. I bet Muslims won't say the same for the Qu'ran.

>>736246183
God, but in human form, so not as... Godly?

>>736240308
As a liberal and an atheist (I presume) why are you so desperate to suck Mohammed's theocratic dick?

>>736245815
it says something about their religion, and its potential for violence. Christianity has a low potential partly because of it's wording in scripture, and frankly I'm surprised that Islam doesn't have more violence based on what its text calls for

>>736246248
Anti Buddhist violence isn't a thing in the West, but it definitely is a thing in places like Asia. Muslims and Hindus, Muslims and Sihks and Muslims and Buddhists have been at war, especially in India.

>>736246394
Which is it, there's zero point or it illustrates history? And how is the Old Testament corrupting Christianity?

>>736246394

Except most Christians don't just follow the NT, which is why they are so adamantly against gay marriage.

>>736246394
Then why the homophobia?

>>736246518
I'm a moderate and a Christian. And it's like I said here >>736244333

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>>736246073
Christ said "By their fruits you shall know them."
Love (Greek: agape, Latin: caritas)
Joy (Greek: chara, Latin: gaudium)
Peace (Greek: eirene, Latin: pax)
Patience (Greek: makrothumia, Latin: longanimitas)
Kindness (Greek: chrestotes, Latin: benignitas)
Goodness (Greek: agathosune, Latin: bonitas)
Faithfulness (Greek: pistis, Latin: fides)
Gentleness (Greek: prautes, Latin: modestia)
Self-control (Greek: egkrateia, Latin: continentia)

We can claim to be disciples or students of Christ but far too many take on the mantle of teacher shepherd or apostle and not only do not follow his directions to the apostles but worse never even learn the fruits.

The average Church or Synagogue today is a pit of vipers led by a liar in a funny hat.

>>736246499
This >>736246651 was meant for you

>>736246287
Are you seriously comparing some shot from the damn dark ages to now?!?

I mean by all means. Go for it. I think all organized religion should be stamped out like the cancer it is, but I'm willing to give them all a "hundred year do over" just do they have some chance to justify themselves.

The only religion that I'm aware of that's still failing and doing horrible shit past that hundred year mark is Islam...but I'd love to be wrong.

>>736246121
This. Sane, enlightened westerners who appreciate their freedoms don't welcome those who mean to take it away from them.

>>736244333
I think you might be onto something. I will consider your theory and investigate in my life.

>>736246926
It exists in some places like African countries.

>>736246926
>some shot from the dark ages
More like thousands of years of violence in the name of God. The resemblance is clear.

>>736246565
When the hell did I mention corruption? That's your word, not mine.

And yes, I said there's zero point in it being a part of Christianity, well that's wrong since many do use the OT to contrast it to the NT, but again most Christians will say they dont follow the OT, because the NT is the only thing they follow. There's zero point to the OT in the day to day life of the average Christian.

>>736246566
There's a few non gay things in the NT as well.
>>736246576
While most homophobia is religious in nature, it's just tradition, people haven't agreed with gay people for a long time. It's also cultural. Many non Christian/Jewish/Islamic places have also not liked gay people for many reasons. We used to have interracial couples too, but that wasn't really a "religious thing". We slowly got over it, and are getting over it in the West too. Many places in the West have voted to allow gay marriage even in places like Mexico. Shit, even conservative Christian countries elect openly gay Prime Ministers like recently Serbia.

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I'm only on book 6, but so far it's been a pretty interesting read, sort of contradictory at times.

>>736247082
Likewise, the majority of Muslims find no use in Sharia law, except for the relationship it describes between worshipers and their god (one of prayer and sacrifice). The changes are in their infancy, because the forces enacting them are far newer within Muslim cultures.

>>736247082
The Fundies have not gotten over it. They still use the OT (erronously I might add) to justify homophobia.

>>736239144
Look at what just happened in Finsbury park who in there right mind wants more terrorists in there country

>>736247274
I would say that's a lie, like I said most Muslims are way more conservative than Christians and Westerners, and Islam is way more to them than Christians are.
>>736247301
True, there's a lot of fundie, and even many moderate Christians are against gay marriage or homosexuality in general. They should be criticized if they do use the OT to justify themselves with it.

OP here. This has been fun, but captchas are getting too time consuming. I'll be lurking here on out. To those who gave me their perspective and described their beliefs, thank you. You've given me both insight and practice, and I am very grateful. Have a wonderful day, and God bless.

>>736247017
That was supposed to say "some shit from the dark ages" (thx autocorrect)
And yes, there thousands of years of people looking for any reason at all to kill each other. Including in the name of God.
That's why I said I'm willing to forgive everything older than 100 years. Because if I didn't then NONE of them would have a right to exist.

If this was meant to somehow negate what I said I'm not getting it.

>>736247586
Check
http://www.pewforum.org/2013/04/30/the-worlds-muslims-religion-politics-society-beliefs-about-sharia/

>>736247708
That link doesn't do you much justice. Most = over 50%. Those polls clearly show that many of those in those countries are way more conservative than in the West.

>>736248006
In those countries yes, but not globally. This demonstrates that it's the culture in those locations that is the true culprit, not the religion which is practiced globally.

>>736241974
>>736241974

Looking at your link honestly makes me even more apprehensive of Islam.

Like 30-40% of Muslims believe that Sharia law should be put in place as their nation's law, and that it should be for all citizens, not just Muslims. 30-50% support stoning for adultery. Support of the death penalty for leaving Islam, while low in quite a few countries, is like 80 fucking % in quite a few. That is fucking retarded and whilst I don't support it, if large areas of the middle east, Africa and Asia were just carpet bombed the human race would see a decade of such progress.

>>736248134
To me it shows that the non Westerners take the scripture more seriously than the West. That scripture of Islam. Those polls are bad PR for Islam and Muslims. And most Muslims do not live in the West, where the majority are peaceful and secular.

>>736248330
>Most Muslims do not live in the west
Most Muslims do not live in those conservative countries.

>>736248506
They live in SE Asia, where the fucking polls give them bad PR.

Man, stop posting the poll it is seriously not helping you.

>>736248134
>>736248506
> spinning it this hard
Constructivism is a cancer. Marx is the worst thing to happen to politics since "Corporations are people"

>>736248621
I disagree. Even if the faction I spoke of was a minority as small as 2% I would call my point valid. To condemn that 2% for the beliefs of the remaining 98% is still amoral.

We dont believe in religous freedom. The Bible has several statements about stoning people but nobody does that anymore. You do whatever the fuck we tell you too raghead.

>>736248774
>2%

Those polls do NOT show 2%. Come on, those polls show numbers above 30% and that's lowballing it.

>>736239144
> ever wonder how Americans can be patriotic and also against religious freedoms?
AMERICA WAS FOUNDED BY PROTESTANTS YOU STUPID SAND NIGGER.
PROTESTANTS.
PROTESTERS.
PEOPLE WHO HAD A PROBLEM WITH THE CATHOLIC CHURCH.
AMERICA WAS FOUNDED ON TELLING YOU TO STUFF YOUR RELGIOUS IDEALOGY UP YOUR ASS.
YOU R AN BIG RITURD.
STOP SPEAK.
REMOVE KEBAB

>>736248897
I took it to the extreme to make the point clearer, but yes my case is far stronger than that.

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>>736240524
Close but i think i got a better one

>>736249056
I'm pretty sure it was founded on the abolition of religious persecution, which is why that's the first amendment to the US constitution.

>>736249213
RELIGOUS PERSECUTION OF P R O T E S T A N T S

>>736249067
How? How in the hell is your case stronger than mine? HOW. Bro you have to be trolling. Those polls are NOT helping you. Those muslim majority countries show that they are clearly more conservative than the West. Most muslims live in SE Asia and they want Sharia Law and don't like how their countries aren't up to par with it.

>>736249266
And yet the amendment applies to all religions, hmmmm

>>736249280
If even 2% makes my point valid, and you estimate it at 30% (more people by far) then my point becomes more valid (by far).

>>736249369
The point here being that the Amendment was put in place to give me, an American, the right to say F U C K Y O U R S H I T T Y B O O K N I G G E R.
R E L I G I O U S F R E E D O M M E A N S F R E E D O M F R O M R E L I G I O U S O V E R R E A C H N O T F R E E D O M T O C U T Y O U R S A N D N I G R A S P A W N S C L I T O F F O R B U R N G A Y S J U S T B E C A U S E D U D E G O D L O L H O L Y S H I T H O W C A N Y O U B E T H I S D U M B S E R I O U S L Y R E A D A B O O K N I G G E R

>>736249491
Except, you don't even have 2% backing you up. You keep trying to say most muslims don't live in conservative countries >>736248506
when they clearly do. Those muslims want sharia law. You post the polls as if they somehow make Islam look better when most people here are seeing that those conservative countries look unappealing and paint Islam and Muslims in a bad light.

>>736249756
And when a Muslim becomes an American citizen, the amendment gives them the same right.

>>736245815
KKK has more to do with the democratic party then Christianity.

>>736249872
They can say it all they like as long as they comply with the laws of the land, which rob them of their "religous freedom" which again, means freedom from religious overreach. Meaning your daughter can dress however she wants, fuck whoever she wants, and if you cut her pussy we're gonna throw you to them Aryan Cunts in prison. :^) deal with it sandnigger

>>736250282
Which is fine. There are many Muslims who adhere to American laws while still practicing their faith. They can do these because they are protected by the constitution. Persecuting them would go against American values. That is and has been my point.

>>736239144
You're clearly innocent-trolling. Religions from around the globe have arrived and thrived in America. Islam is the only one to originate from cultures with nothing to contribute. I'd have a Sikh or a Hindu or a you-name-it living next to me before I'd pretend a muslim is a tolerant neighbor. No concept of citizenship nor tolerance is taught to those clowns. Can't wait for Plan AR-15 to take effect! Love you all on the way out ,,, you could have had it all here in America, but you insist on being cunts. How do Koreans and Chinese arrive and thrive here, but you can't make it?

>>736249797
According to you I have 30% which is even better. But more to the point. According the the link I provided, a majority of the Muslims globally (62%) live in the Asia-Pacific region, including large populations in Indonesia, India, Pakistan, Bangladesh, Iran and Turkey. You have to remove a few of those countries to be left with the conservative ones.

>>736250457
Persecuting them is the foundation upon which American freedom has laid. Not understanding this is what makes you a dumb fagolio. We "persecuted" the catholics the same way we can, should, must, and will, "persecute" mudslimes.

>>736250802
I had Muslim neighbors in San Diego and this was not my experience at all. I'm not trolling, we just have different life experiences.

>>736250882
Indonesia, Bangladesh, Iran, and Pakistan are very clearly conservative, do you think theyre liberal? Turkey is supposed to be moderate but recently it's been regressing, and Erdogan isn't helping. India is mostly Hindu, so I'm not counting it.

>>736250457
You know it. I agree 100 percent with your views.

>>736250923
We never persecuted the Catholics. Maybe the Irish, but that's like persecuting Afghanistan - understandable and not the same as Islam itself.

>>736245815
The Klan only killed people because of political purposes. But they've pretty much sulked in a corner for the past 50 years or so, so nobody really pays much attention to them anymore

>>736239144
>America don't believe in absolute religious freedom in the case of Islam
>absolute religious freedom in the case of Islam
>freedom
>Islam

>>736250987
Respect to you, and for what is your experience.

Because it's incompatible with modern society.

>>73625114
> ireland was not controlled by Catholicism
> ireland is not still controlled by Catholicism
> persecuting the irish has nothing to do with Catholicism.
> we never persecuted the catholics.
We're not persecuting the fuckin mudslimes now. You fuckin faggots are just used to liberals being all polite and nice because you're brown and when some white dude tells you your religion is shit and shouldn't exist you call it "persecution" telling a catholic and a jew the same fuckin thing not more than a fuckin year ago.

>>736239144
Huh, I don't know, maybe because Islam hates western society and infringes upon more freedoms than one and is an overall threat to the freedom of religion.

>>736251758
Except for the Muslims who don't. But hey, why not persecute them too?

>>736251570
Doesn't it exhaust you to have to suck up to people based on what is "politically correct"? When we are talking about religious cultures where running wild and sexually assaulting names has its own name ... yeah, Islam ... it's impossible to see any of you as loving families, fathers or even worthwhile people. This is why each of your "nations" are powderkegs ... not to say any western country is not a mess, but fuck if you clowns aren't so very backward and sad. I laugh each time I meet an "adult" muslim, you're all bent in the head.

>>736251932
Look at the stats buddy, most "peaceful" muslims agree with "extremists," they're apples of the same tree. If they oppose said extremists so much, why don't they create their own reformed Islam?

>>736252455
Damn right. Deeds make impact beyond words.

>>736251932
Yes, life sucks and some people catch shit they don't deserve. Unfortunately however, when you tell people "God says (x)" some of those people try to install theocracy.
So essentially, Yes. Many of them aren't theocratic dickbacks, but the only solution to thw theocratic dickbag problem is to persecute the group. Unfortunate as it might be, religious fags like to misconstrue the meaning of religous freedom. They must be brought to heel otherwise they (#NOTALL JUST SOME) think their god gives them license to dictate law.

>>736252563
Sense printed bold.

>>736252455
You want them to change their religion because some people practice it in a way that goes against your beliefs? That's insane. If they are practicing their religion in accordance with US laws, they should be protected by US laws - and are.

>>736252563
Persecuting Muslims who are innocent will only radicalize more Muslims. It's counterproductive.

>>736252798
I love the warning that we musn't turn muslims into terrorists. They're here to live like Americans or they belong elsewhere.

>>736252697
Are you fucking dense? If you think I'm insane for not being an advocate of Jihad you can fuck off. Change and reform aren't the same thing either.

>>736252798
THE ONES WHO AREN'T RADICALIZED STILL AGREE THAT WHAT THE RADICALS ARE DOING IS MORALLY JUSTIFIED.
NOT PERSECUTING THEM DOESN'T STOP THE RADICALIZED BEHAVIOR IT JUST NORMALIZES IT SO THAT RADICAL BECOMES A FURTHER EXTREME.

>>736252940
Except those who are in other countries. You're thinking in a limited capacity. There are over 2 billion Muslims all around the world.

>>736253003
This is false. The vast majority believe the opposite, according to Pew Research Center.

>>736252964
Agree, sick of this "but if" and "only when" bullshit. Why travel to a Western country and enjoy the benefits ... and then re-create all the dynamics that made you leave your original shitty country of origin?

Maybe we're against Islam because ISIS IS FUCKING KILLING PEOPLE OVER ISLAM. Fucking sandnigger.

>>736253098
Please waste no time dropping yourself on the shore of Qatar or Saudi Arabia and see how sensitively they treat you. Please ask them to take Communion during Mass on Sunday, let me know how it goes.

>>736253256
And if I started a cult that killed people in the name of the Giant Spaghetti Monster in the Sky, would you go around killing Pastafarians? Most of them are atheists, but who cares right?

>>736239144
Backwards it says Halla tub dog on

We're not against religious freedom, we just don't want to let murderers who kill to feed their god free reign to do so

I agree with anon, for the most part.

The whole idea of religious freedom in the US is constantly touted by the gung-ho so called patriots of this country, but it's taboo when Islam is put into question. I wouldn't pinpoint it on conservatism or any political ideology in general, however. The problem is the misinformation. The internet is a great source for information, but also a source for information and lies. I've encountered so many sites and have debated people on certain issues so many times. People look up things to conform to their preconception of something to further confirm their own belief. Do I blame them? No, it's human nature. BUT. people should further educate themselves and get a new perspective. People like to mention cultural connection and politics to religion. This is so much more than that. Religion is often shaped by different cultures to fit their life styles. The whole Islam Arab culture thing is a gross misrepresentation of the followers. Look at it from a larger perspective.

False equivalent: Pastafarianism is a sham meant to expose the shams of "established" religions and it is a seer-stone that reveals bullshit.

>>736253360
Please travel the road of Abraham and let me know how kind Muslims can be when you accuse them of being violent. And while you're at it, try making an argument that isn't full of holes.

>>736253579
Let me draw a cartoon of Allah. Will you leap through that "hole" in my argument to behave like someone from a primitive culture who's not ready to argue without hate?

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>>736253579
No one's accusing anyone faggot.

>>736253803
This isn't an argument to me, and we share a culture my friend. I'm debating this to learn, and to practice. I don't agree with all the points I've made in this thread. That said, there are plenty of Muslims who don't mind the cartoons, and those are the sorts of people I'm referring. Not because people need to be "sensitive to their plight" - no. I mention them because they are practicing a religion which many Americans have 0 tolerance for. They practice their religion in accordance with US laws and protected by US laws. Those who take issue with them are, from my perspective, hypocrites.

>>736253540
>>736249056

>>736254186
There are numerous quotes within the Quran that entail murdering non-believers of Islam. It shouldn't be a surprise when people look at towelheads funny. The "moderate" muslims can do fuck all, it's not taking them out of the pot with the radicals. Islam in its current form is nothing to be calm about, it's no different from Christianity during the crusades.

>>736254186
I need to back up and let you know: I have been educated & served in the military with Muslims (I'll capitalize it here) who are Americans. No complaints with them. You know why? They don't make choice between being Muslim or being American: They choose being American, and they practice within our code. What's our code? It's an Old West tradition where you don't fuck with your neighbor if his way of life doesn't fuck with you, sorry to cuss but that's it. When any muslim feels compelled to behave like an idiot after years of camping in a culture where he / she has been given the right to ride along and be part of the program - and *then* that muslim decides to "rediscover" his / her religion and behave like someone shitting between sandals in a cave - then yes, I'm racist as hell. Don't pretend I've not accepted others. Just know I'm exhausted with the process of waiting for others to catch up to what American means - here I'm talking about your clowns who don't inform on the weirdos making bombs; the Minneapolis doctors carving up the genitals of young women. Here's the part where you step in and tell me that you're not affiliated with Somalis or any other sad fraction of Muslim cultures who are bent upon bringing their bent direction to our country. My forefathers weren't really beloved for being Irish or German. But they *got their shit together* and went with the program. That program is America, dick. Nobody runs this program: It's a comfortable level achieved by treating people like neighbors. That's the U.S.A. Dearborn, MI had a huge Muslim population: they chose to be Americans first. What have you chosen?

>>736254753
see >>736242077

>>736254857
I'm an American. I use the power and responsibility that allows me to question my influences on the world, and to seek out problems (even those of America itself). I view it as my responsibility, as one who has received much, to understand those problems and to assist with them in any way I can. For me, right now, that means understanding the world better - and debate is my preferred method.

>>736255596
I apologize for not being polite.

>>736255695
The funny thing is, I know we'd be fantastic neighbors. I believe Christianity is as silly a story as Islam, or Marvel Comics. I mean that to be equally offensive. We're approaching a divide, however, where people are behaving in a defensive posture of Islam that mirrors the most destructive behaviors of christianity (no capitalization) - and when folks can't drop that to just get along, friend, I get very worried.

Problem, Islam is actually a political ideology disguised as a religion. It's number one aim is one world government under Islam.

Also, where do you draw the line? I'll tell you where I draw the line, albeit I'm not the patriotic type, your freedom of religion ends where my life is begins to be threatened. Now considering what we know about Islam it's it's aim, as designed, it is a direct threat to everyone who enjoys freedom. Its the religion of war and slavery, designed by a warlord and slaver.

Till this day, all Muslim majority countries have slaves. Millions of them. Muslim Majority countries make up for about 20+ million slaves. Arabs, who are mostly Muslims were trading slaves 700 years before the Transatlantic slave trade. Slavery, as far as we know, can be dated back to the time of ancient Mesopotamia.

Simply put, they are a people of war and slavery. They always have been and continue to be so.

So if you're asking if it's hypocritical to hold a patriotic stance and be against Islam, the answer is simple: No, because of a very good justifiable reason: They want to live free.

Freedom> Acceptance of oppression of western Ideals who aim to enslave us all.

If you doubt that, just remember that the vast majority of Muslims in the world wold like to see the world under Sharia. That means, that the few you may know count for shit in the grand scheme of Islam.

>>736256018
>
Listening.

>>736239144
I doubt religion on the ground that I believe humanity is capable of doing things without the need, I stick to a Buddhist way of life, but I stand firm with the belief that gods will not do for man, what he can do for himself, and if that's the case, we've truly needed no gods now have we?

>>736256282
without knowing Buddhism, I only can repeat something my Buddhist wife said: "When's the last time you saw Buddhists knocking on your door like Mormons?" She's right. Peace is peace and it doesn't need marketing.

>>736256495
Precisely, the problem that many have against Islam is as >>736256018 stated, but there's another thing to it too, there's a failure of union and uniting your people together as well, as far as i'm aware, it seems there's new sub factions of Islam extremists coming into light every 4-5 or so years: each with albeit, their own agenda's which seem to further arrogance and ignorance in not just american countries too. I can't say much on the whole stance as I haven't met anyone to give their side of the story, and here in america, the fear mongering is real and no one really bothers to try and understand what's really going on

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Allahu Akbar!