Yall miss Barry yet? Will probably go down as the greatest president

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Though I do like Obama, this is fucking terrible b8 m8

>>735675346
Not going to happen. He had the do nothing congress and the right screeching for eight years about fucking everything.

>>735675346
>Greatest

Fuck nah, depends on if we are talking modern. That would be either Eisenhower if you're talking post ww2, or a tie between Bush Sr. And Clinton.

Obama is totally overrated on the left, but he's even more underrated on the right (that's because they want to win elections though, not accurately analyze a presidents accomplishments and shortcomings so it's fair for them to do that).

>>735675607
Bush Sr. didn't even serve 2 terms kek

>>735675346
Only because he will be the only one without some big-ass scandal starting whisperings of impeachment since HW.

He craves Connie's big, flappy, dappy ass.

>>735675741
Yeah there's totally no reason that Obama and his circle fucked off to non-extradicting countries after the election.

>>735675607
While I do agree that the right loves to say everyone on the left is shit (just like the left dorw, surprise, surprise) he really did not accomplish anything tangible, unless you consider helping race relations become the worst they've been in this country since the 60's.

>>735675855
>>735675896
kill yourselves

>>735675855
Cool story bro. It doesn't matter if you think there was shady stuff going on. Love him or hate him, his tenure still wasn't rocked by an almost career-ending scandal.

>>735675855
So which cuckservative fake news website do you visit the most often?

>>735675346
Greatest President to ever exist. Hands down. you say no, your a racist

>>735675346
Bill was the greatest president, his only real fuck up was letting the businesses send jobs overseas, but in his time we saw money coming in for the first time in decades and did you see how much we lost during Obama's run? Fucking Roodypoos need to stay out of the WHITE house.

>>735675691
Because of how badly he lost to Clinton in the debates and the fact that he was a rich guy during a small recession who continued to act like a fucking rich guy.


Measure a president by their policies and agendas, and put things into context. Reagan served two terms to Bush's one but I think that Bush was much more effective at governing. Reagan's only strength was campaigning and diplomacy.

Barrack literally did nothing, his legacy of Obamacare has already been shat on. The negatives of his presidency like the Fast and Furious scandal have been ignored. Obama is just not talked about, simple as that, he is the most average thing out there.

lol adds 9 gazillion dollars to debt and still can't give healthcare and school xD i'll never get you americans.

>>735675946
Do you think FOX photoshopped Obama and Branson chilling in Trinidad together? Lol nope that came right from O's own social media

>>735675921
Way to not even address my post, you nitwit.

>>735676048
Has everyone forgotten how shitty condition Bush left the economy?? We had one of the wort recessions in history thanks to those idiots at goldman sachs. The entire economy was about to crash

>>735675991
Yea it totally wasnt clinton that got rid of the consumer protections that were the main cause of the economic downturn that happened as Bush left office.

>>735675991
>Fucking Roodypoos need to stay out of the WHITE house.

So you admit you're racist and that's about the only thing you got against Obama?

>>735676074
The guy was just in Canada you fucking halfwit

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>>735675346

https://www.google.com/amp/s/danfromsquirrelhill.wordpress.com/2013/08/15/obama-252/amp/

/thread

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>>735676169
>Wordpress.com

>>735676048
>Obama is just not talked about
>can't talk to a conservative without them mentioning Obama or calling Michelle a monkey at least once while talking to them, and claims to not be racist all in the same breath
>doesn't even matter that I just asked about the wife and kids

>>735675346
>greatest

fraud, totally overrated

>his tenure still wasn't rocked by an almost career-ending scandal

Remember that peace prize? tell that to people of Syria and Libya. His record of killing brown people and making more terrorists is no better than that of W Bush, Clinton, Bush.

One thing I have to say about Trump, for all the scandle and uproar, he's more peaceful so far.

Barry was just another white president. Nothing special.

>>735676257
doesn't matter, i'm a liberal and i hate obama.Smart people see him for the con man he was. He had nice words though, so people thought he was cool and sheeit

>>735676224

Typical liberal cuck. Ignores all sources and doesn't find it credible because it's not MSM

>>735675896
Oh true. Not like the rise in GDP, cutting the deficit, lowering unemployment, helping wall street hit record profits, put us on the path towards a single payer healthcare system, advocate for internet as a utility so that Comcast can't monopolize it, help keep the environment and national parks protected, make us more competitive with the rest of the world in clean energy (doesn't matter if oil is cheaper, clean is the fucking future and we need to be whooping every other country's ass), fund NASA enough to start a new shuttle-style program, increase education budgets, and helped keep anerican food costs down despite many prevalent factors that should be attributing much higher inflation.

But yeah keep telling yourself race relations was his fault and not all the racists who hated having a black president or MSM medias pushing their agendas.

The man was incredibly fallible, but he if he had accomplished NOTHING tangible then tell me why in the fuck Donald Trump has signed TWICE a many executive orders as "Emperor" Obama to reverse everything from the previous administration? (If nothing else please address this question).

I'm not a Democrat but I find the levels of hate that Obama gets as quite insane.

>>735676300
>more peaceful so far.
He launched over 50 missiles and a MOAB in his first four months.

>>735676086
>as everyone forgotten how shitty condition Bush left the economy??

Because presidents control the economy.

>>735676371
say libtard

>>735676169
In June 2011, U.S. Congressman Dennis Kucinich (D-Ohio) said that Obama had violated the Constitution when he launched military operations in Libya without Congressional approval.

In April 2014, Ralph Nader said that Obama should be impeached for his actions in Libya.

If the republicans had a reason to impeach Obama he would have been done.

17) Ordered private company to fire 1,000 employees

In 2011, after Boeing had hired 1,000 new employees to work at its new factory in South Carolina, the Obama administration ordered Boeing to shut down the factory, because the factory was non-union.

>Well sourced
Not a single line saying he ordered it to be done. Thats two bullshit ones in the first 11 and the one about the DEA raids on medical marijuana are sketchy at best

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>>735675346
miss him so

It's not really a probally. No one is gonna say any of these were greatest:
Trump
Bush jr
Bush
Clinton (???) maybe but his legal drama is holding it up

>>735676473
And any changes they push through generally won't have any impact until the next Prez, anyway,

>>735676371
I looked at them
see >>735676519

>>735676473
The market crashed due to a bi-partisan bill during the Clinton administration

>>735675427
>terrible b8
>all of /b/ will post here and it will hit 250+ easily
>every. fucking. hour.

>>735676300
>Wasn't rocked by scandal
>Yeah but

Prepare for a thread of this, folks

>>735676392
If no one else is behind you anon, know that I am. Obama may not have been exactly what America wanted, but he was everything we needed and still do need. I miss waking up to a government I am truly proud of and willing to die for.

>>735676519

>first 11
>quotes #17

First of all , you should learn how to count.

Here is a source from a liberal paper,
https://mobile.nytimes.com/2011/04/21/business/21boeing.html?_r=2&referer=

All the sources are there. Not my fault that you do not know how hyper links work.

It's also funny how liberal cucks deny his wrong doing because you people are the illest politically informed people on the planet

Obama worst president in USA history 2017

>>735676392
>lowering unemployment
>cutting the deficit
The president alone i not responsible for our economy unfucking itself. He deserves credit for helping with that, though.
>put us on the path towards a single payer healthcare system
As if that's a good thing. Besides, Obamacare is a bloated abortion whose only saving grace is outlawing preexisting condition bullshit. I'm not even remotely happy with the Republicans even worse plan, by the way, but Obamacare was flawed to the core.
>advocate for internet as a utility so that Comcast can't monopolize it
Yes, because leaving anything related to the governement is a good thing.
>help keep the environment and national parks protected
China still exists, so he didn't do a whole lot, now did he?
>make us more competitive with the rest of the world in clean energy
No I'm pretty sure our clean energy sector is responsible for that. And yes, it does matter if fossil fuels are cheaper, because as long as they are, clean energy will never surpass it.

Beyond that though, I can't deny your points, although I would argue that the education budget being increased is just a temporary bandage that won't be helpful about a decade from now.

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>>735676841
https://www.google.com/amp/s/danfromsquirrelhill.wordpress.com/2013/08/15/obama-252/amp/

>willing to die for
You're like the Venezuelans who still support Maduro you liberal cuck

>>735675979
oh no please dont call me racist, u nigger

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George W Bush was honestly a very good president and history will look more favorably upon him. He certainly did more than Obama. The Iraq/Afghanistan conflicts were a misstep but honestly, after 9/11 people needed to see our leadership do SOMETHING about it. If he had taken a page out of Obama's book and just launched a couple cruise missiles at afghanistan people would be calling for his head.

Plus he was presidential in a way that wasn't the pandering "look how young and hip I am" style of the Obamas. He wasn't a great orator by any means, but he was at least respected, if not always liked, by the world leaders.

Overall he was dealt a shit hand and did the best he could with it, and it could have been far worse in the hands of someone like obama or trump.

>>735676994
love Obama but This. All of this. Are you me?

>>735676994
>History will look more favorably on him

Only because the GOP is using Trump as damage control to make him look better in retrospect. After 8 years of Biden they'll find a new, bigger retard to make Trump look good. And the downward spiral of the GOP continues

>>735676909
Feel free to flame me, because no matter how much hypocrisy you slap on your tiny keyboard with your overweight hands, my political standings are far from liberal. But that doesn't blind me from the fact that Obama was a good president.

>>735677073
Trump does make W look better in retrospect but that's not really what I meant. He is blamed for all the problems inherited by Obama because he's the only scapegoat we have, but historians will have much more data to get a better idea of how and why the economy did what it did and I don't believe it was solely on W's shoulders.

>>735676848
Yea I'm tired its 1:30 I do know how hyperlinks work and where in that article does it say that Obama ordered it be done also that plant is still up and running.

You fucking retard republican fanboys are just as stupid as the lefty faglords.

You fucking dipshits have been crying for 9 fucking years now.

That article is dogshit. and if you looked at it I would bet most of those so called facts are clickbait titles with most of them being somoen in government being a piece of shit and not Obama but according to you dipshits its all Obamas fault

>>735677073
>buying into the left vs. right meme
You know, if the mongrels in Washington could look past party differences and actually fucking work together on the problems in this country that are literally destroying it, they would be fixed in about one Presidential term.

Unfortunately, they only care about towing the party line and their 'my way or the highway' pedantry, and the people that think one side is better than the other only serve to enable them.

>>735677102

I literally just posted 1,300 well sourced reasons why Obama is one of the worst presidents and you claim you couldn't "access" the sources

You are the reason why Americans are dumb fucks .
>literally

>>735676881
1. Not alone of course, but that can apply to any argument and we are comparing them after all

2. Yes it is. Look at literally every other western democracy, they all use it and none have abandoned it. Its the worst thing, except for everything else.
3. Consumer protections exist for a reason, and it is literally the government's job to prevent monopolization that exploits the citizens.
4. China polluting all of its shit doesn't affect our rivers and forests. In talking about OUR shit. Fracking poisons water tables and coal poisons pretty much everything. (not that neneweables dinar damage when toxic shit leaks)
5. Clean energy did that, but his administration pushed HEAVY motherfucking subsidies for them.


Again, Barry is average to slightly above average at best, but the dude has accompishments. Libs never try to take away Bush's accomplishments, they just criticize all of his fuck ups. Cons are incapable of the same courtesy it seems.

>>735676994
I doubt history will shine his name. Look at Hoover, he was dealt the shittiest hand ever. But we still view him as a bad president.

>>735677192
>He is blamed for all the problems inherited by Obama
>Implying Obama made him deny the existence of climate change, create promises he can't keep, discredit every news outlet and give his son in-law and daughter white house positions, blatantly lie and create alternative facts daily

>>735677252
yup. every shit head tied to their party refuse to budge on any point made by the other. fuck parties, its all a bunch of shit. we're all people and if we wanna see change, we need to rally behind those changes, not be a bunch of party humping faggots

>>735677073
plus he's easy to hate because of how he got dunked on constantly by comedians and things like the daily show. When he's just a picture on a page and you look at it objectively without the impression of "god what a bumbling idiot hick" those shows gave us when we were younger, I think he'll look much better.

In the end though the presidential rankings don't actually matter. They can no longer do anything to help us. What truly matters going forward is finding candidates that are really going to help the country and avoid a shitshow election like this past one. I mean seriously, how could neither party put up a candidate that could beat Trump, an uneducated moron, or Clinton, a corrupt lady constantly on her knees for the banks (and no, your socialist jew "bro" wouldn't have been any better).

>>735677243

It is not my fault you're not politically informed.
>not my fault you don't know how to do research

Obama legalized propaganda in 2013 and now cucks like you think he's a good president without knowing shit about what he actually did.

>>735677325
read it again. "He" is referring to W.

>>735677260
Never claimed I couldn't access it? I refuse to even entertain the idea of accessing. I assume you are a huge alt-right supporter, so whenever you agree to read more about climate change, ocean expansion, and overall global warming. I will then think about reading from some source you recommend.

>>735677367
no u

>>735677252
Yeah and us American voters are the ones at fault because we are the mongrels who vote for the mongrels who are unwilling to compromise and act like brats.

Americans are behaving shitty instead of behaving moderately, and thus we have few moderates in office. In honestly fucking ashamed of my country and the GOP that Trump was picked over Kasich or even Jeb.

>>735677260
No, Americans are dumb because they try to write 1300 reasons for things that simply aren't true.

>>735677260
Your 1300 well sourced reasons are a stretch and point to Obama as the reason for all sorts of shit he doesn't control but I'm sure if after Trump is out of office if someone did that type of thing you would say shit like the president doens;t control the economy or he isnt in charge of the (insert what ever governing body)

>>735677358
the propaganda has been going strong since well before 2013. When I was in college in 2004, you either had to join the liberal circlejerk or be ostracized socially. Large universities really are liberal indoctrination centers and desperately need reform to make them unbiased places of learning, not the public relations department of the Democractic Party.

>>735676056
>xD
bait or summer?

>>735677431
^

>>735677358
What the fuck are you even talking about...
You're that same dipshit from thew other thread that can't greentext right. You have no fucking point and cant even keep your conversation straight. You're just going to sling bad insults and tell people they are misinformed because you have no fucking clue what you are talking about.

>>735677414

I don't support either side. I think American is retarded that's why I left . Americans are literally the dumbest cucks in the west

>>735677424

>hurrrr derrrrr ignores sources because it is anti Obama

American logic

The amount of support Obama is actually surprising coming from /b/ or 4chan in general. Liberal or not, I'm proud of the ones who openly supported here tonight. You well informed bastards are the reason I even bother with this board.

>>735677670
He isn't ignoring sources. The sources are garbage

>>735677273
1.Fair enough, anon.

2. Have forgotten the spotty medical coverage they provide? I mean, if all anyone ever got was the sniffles, they'd be okay.

3.But the internet is not a business service, and therefore shouldn't be regulated by business laws. Not to mention in the future someone could use this as precedent to legally censor the internet.

4.Do you know what else is really fucking bad for the environment? All the mining operations involved producing material for renewable energy sources to be created

5.Again, I will concede this point.


I'd classify Obama as 'meh' myself. No George Washington, but no Calvin Coolidge either.

>Libs never try to take away Bush's accomplishments, they just criticize all of his fuck ups
You're right, they just pretend he accomplished nothing.
>>735677289
It's a shame that Calvin Coolidge helped facilitate the Great Depression but everyone blames Hoover for it.
>>735677334
The people that don't buy into it are always labeled as 'fencesitters', which is so goddamn infuriating.

>>735677431
>hurrr durrr he don't like Obama damn trump supporter

This is why Americans are stupid. All you cucks run to choose a side no matter what. Trump isn't as bad as Obama because he hasn't did the time that Obama has done but after 8 years I'll talk shit about Trump too.

>>735677502
No, young people are just naturally more optimistic and idealistic. So our teachers (because they chose to be teachers LMAO, not the best career choice). Yes it's unfortunate but it has ALWAYS been like this since at least the 70s. You're literally mad that people have a different political opinion than you and congregate. People grow up, change opinions, and there are tons more open conservatives on campus now since Obama took office. Shut the fuck up about this shit, you're literally trying to force certain areas of the country to have political opinions rather than let them form organically.

>>735677686
>well informed

you mean indoctrinated.

>>735677502

Yeah I know but I was just pointing out that Obama actually legalized propaganda in 2013.

>>735675346
'Greatest president in modern times' is a fucking low bar. you've got trump, bush, bush jr, clinton... yeah obama was better than all them, but he was still pretty fucking terrible.

>>735677754
Teachers shouldn't encourage that naivety. Tell people from a young age what the world really is like. Don't try and sell the lie that you can be anything you want to be and you are the master of your own destiny etc.

We need more pragmatic people, not ones with their heads up in the clouds "hoping" and "dreaming" about things that will never happen

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>>735675346
>greatest prez in modern times
that's like being the winner in the special olympics

>>735677571

So now you're being ultra American. You realized you're not politically informed enough to hold an arguement with me so
>says can't greentext

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>>735675346
> Barry
You mean the nig-nog who killed Andrew Breitbart?

>>735677787
>Obama actually legalized propaganda in 2013.
How did he legalize propaganda?

>>735675346

Who?

>>735677735
it really fucking is. I dont sit on the fence, I just dont buy this shitty logic of you have to accept one party and only that party. Both "sides" have great points, stuff that will really help this nation grow. Both sides also have some really stupid shit, selling themselves to corps, taking away protections and aide for the people in need, banning all drugs, free and unprotected markets... the list goes on. im not saying you gotta agree that those ideas are shit. im saying lets have a reasonable conversation about why you dislike x, lets go back to really discussing issues instead of brushing them under the rug because THOSE DAMN LIBS OR CONS like the idea. let have a fucking discussion for once

>>735677712

Please give me an example how the sources are garbage?
Are you telling me cash for clunkers never happened ?

>>735675814
BRBDPPPBRBDPRP

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>>735677844
Yeah, selling the concept of hopes and dreams are terrible. Def not worth the 1/10000000 who comes out from it all and contributes to the entire human race in some remarkable way.

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What America really needs is Alex Jones for president in 2020. Hold on frogs, your savior is coming.

>>735677840
Obama and Clinton come in close. Clinton was a big supporter of scientific advancement. Which seems to be part of the democratic platform at this point. While the Republicans try to push us backwards in science and technology.

>>735676519
Yeah. In terms of the toll on human life, the decision to overthrow Gaddafi may be as consequential as Bush's decision to invade Iraq. The chaos in Libya led directly to the breakdown in Mali and the rise of Boko Haram in Nigeria. Boko Haram is even more vicious than ISIS, but nobody covers the crisis in Nigeria, Libya and Mali because, you know, it's an African conflict.

>>735677869
No I am politiclly informed. You just have shitty disjointed arguments if you even make an argument. You mostly try to talk down to people and you do it poorly.

And you can't read I didn't say you couldn't greentext i said you did it like shit.

>>735677882

Just look it up , I'm here to inform idiots why he was a Shitty president , nobody wants to accept my sources so just do search on it and you will find all of your answers

>>735676562
Well that and the constant scandals around his wife

>>735677904
Hard for the average American to even consider that the other 'side' might be not be literally Hitler or literally the Devil, since it's drilled into our heads from the moment we're able to read and understand human speech that you must pick a side, and that your side is always right.

All the ideals that the Founding Fathers so strongly believed in and worked towards are being trampled upon, and the all those who fought and/or died in the Revolution literally died for nothing.

>>735677925
I am being hyperbolic but honestly I think we can all agree that there are too many people in colleges pursuing a degree that will not get them the career they want. They are wasting time and money and setting themselves behind.

Basically the idea that the only jobs worth having require a college degree needs to go away. Maybe it was true a while ago, but in modern society we have way more degrees than jobs, even in the STEM disciplines.

I'd just like to see education be more realistic, and when someone says "I want that degree in gender studies" someone needs to be there to tell them "you know that degree won't help you get a job after you graduate and is essentially worthless, right?" to weed out all but the most passionate who might actually go on to do something in that field.

>>735677969
You just can't ignore the 1994 crime bill though. Thoroughly militarized police, led to runaway mass incarceration, and trashed civil liberties more than any other modern legislation since the inception of the drug war.

>>735677735

2. Absolutely correct argument but I would rather everyone get care that that's spotty rather than 25 million citizens without. Call me crazy but I find this more utilitarian for secular people and more Christian for the religious.
In response to #3, the government is treating the internet as a utility SPECIFICALLY to prevent censoring which is what Comcast and time Warner would want. Obama helped prevent this but the new FCC chairman will be repealing this and there will be nothing stopoing them. Remeber when Comcast basically censored Netflix unless they paid them a shit ton of money? That's gonna happen a lot of they are successful.

4. Thats true, but you're taking limited materials to create limited energy while cheaper energy is limited materials for limited energy. I just think America will be far more prosperous if we can best everyone else at this shit, because before you know it we can start selling our surplus energy to other countries. Or we will be able to innovate far better than rivals. What the internet did for technology innovation, cheaper widespread energy would do for engineering imo.

Fair point on bush, nobody really talks about how good he was at foreign policy and how much closer he was to Israeli peace, nor his strengthening of friendships with other nations and better trade deals. He also did helped the private sector a LOT, and if they hadn't got so selfish and fucked themselves he would probably have a better record than Clinton.

>>735678090
>thinking it's this simple to control a population of 7 billion+

Grow up kid, don't you get it yet?

>>735676562
obama killed reporters and tore up MENA with ridiculous levels of drone attacks

>>735676994
Honestly I don't think he will be remember super favorably but I do think it will be in better consideration than modern times, he had the hardest presidency since WW2 and he did handle it really well until Iraq but people will eventually forget that conflict as American history books will gloss over it like they do with everything relating to Panama and Teddy Roosevelt.

Obama is vastly overrated by the left. While inspiring, in the sense of "perhaps Merika isn't completely full of white trash racists", he mostly failed to create substantive change. RomneyCare was a good start, but he and the Democrats pussyfooted around trying to appease the GOP when they ended up being completely obstructionist and unhelpful. And all of Dubya's rolling back of civil liberties continued under Obama's administration. The War on Terror is utter bullshit, and Obama made it worse. See also: all the fellation of Wall Street on his watch.

>>735678015
Don't forget letting Arab Spring happened and all the radicalizing that has emerged from it.

>>735678019

So literally stop being a dumbass American cuck and go to the link I sent, if you don't accept those sources then google the 1300 reasons randomly
>legalized propaganda
>made America more racist
>responsible for Trump becoming Prez
>cash for clunkers
>made killary Secretary of State
>made it illegal for airlines to allow Americans to travel internationally on one way tickets
>manipulated poorfags to blame all their problems on richfags

I can literally go on about either bills he passed or consequences of his stupid actions all day but talking to you is like talking to any other dumbass American cuck shithead so I do not want to waste my time anymore . You people literally are the biggest fucking retards in the western world.

Seriously, everybody in the world literally think Americans are fucking retarded. I'm not joking. I know this for a fact. I traveled many places. People think Americans are literally autistic because they think the way you do and you elect the shittiest leaders like trump, Obama, bush, then you prey for socialism like dumbass idiots because America is so perfect and not good enough for you.

>>735678149
who cares about 7 billion+? All we should care about is the people in our country.

>>735677920
Blaming Obama for everything bad that happened during his presidency becasue some government agency did whatever makes them shitty sources. Not closing Guantanamo sure he said he was going to do that but how much resistance did he get from the right? And that makes him a shitty president? Cash for clunkers had some bad federal guidelines to be followed but a lot of it was done at the state level people trading in their gas guzzling cars for hummers and whatnot. Sure the guy had bad policies but the worst president ever is such a ridiculous statement that anyone who says shows just how little they know about past presidents.

>>735678349
We should be thinking about both. Look up game theory and stop being such a nationalist asshole.

>>735678252
it's disgusting looking back how the media spun the arab spring as something positive and a great thing obama did by "spreading democracy". Of course they'll never admit that it ended up pretty poorly and call me a bigot for suggesting it did.

>>735678023
So you don't actually know you just say it since you heard someone say it to you.

>>735678409
globalism makes no sense. We aren't a global society. Nationalism/tribalism is in our nature.

>>735678429

Are you retarded?

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>>735675346

>>735678057
i know, its fucked up... but, while i see plenty of hate for "the other side" (aka libtards, or alt reich), i am seeing a growing of us who actually just want to fix it all. middles like us arent on the fence or deciding not to choose. were choosing to see the view points of all and careful consider them. we want real change, and we know thats only going to reach fruition when we actually fucking take the time to think about what a person is saying and not go into a fit of rage over it. we are truly waking up

>>735678334
I've read about ten of the sources and like I have said before they are vague or a stretch at best. and if you don't like talking to Americans then what the fuck are you doing in this thread. Get the fuck out if you had the balls to say what shitty country you live in I could just as easily tear your shit politics apart

>>735678252
You can't blame the Arab Spring on Obama, per se. Democratic movements have a life of their own. Obama managed the uprisings as best anyone could in the service of empire. On the one hand, he gave free reign to counter revolutionary regimes like the Saudis to destroy the uprisings with extreme violence. On the other hand, Obama and the other liberal interventionists definitely "weaponized" the Arab Spring in places like Libya and Syria. Where revolutions were successful, in places like Egypt, Obama skillfully co-opted the new administrations, promising them arms deals and business contracts if they "played ball."

>>735678141
Every person in this nation can get medical care with or without insurance, as it's literally illegal for a hospital to turn you away because you cannot pay. Plus let's not forget that Obamacare is not accepted at many doctor's offices.

My concern with a government anywhere near the internet is that it's all too easy for them to take control of it. And do you know why Comcast got BTFO for trying to censor Netflix? Because of consumer backlash, which always keeps companies in check, unless they become a literal monopoly. Plus the Netflix thing was a result of a beef between Comcast and Netflix. Which if the government really cared about the internet being a neutral ground, they'd be all over the communications companies for charging exorbitant fees for mediocre internet service.

My main problem with renewable energy is none of them are nearly as reliable as fossil fuels. And in the cases where they stomp fossil fuels, they're far more expensive. Not to mention that switching to renewable energy would require an absolutely massive overhaul to our infrastructure that would grind America to a halt for years.

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>>735675855
but he didn't

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>>735678480
>Nationalism is in our nature

>>735675346
Fuck that Kenyan nigger

>>735678520
No but if you asked me to source some claim that I said I would.

>>735678571
it is meme boy

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>>735678560
>it's literally illegal for a hospital to turn you away because you cannot pay
the problem is people who are so sick they need to go to the hospital are very sick and expensive. If they had affordable healthcare they would never have gotten that sick.

>>735678360

Please stop trying to justify shit. He is the one who expanded George bushes stupid NSA programs that spy on Americans . I really would like to know who was more of a scumbag faggot then that nigger? I don't even know why I'm on /b/. It's a bunch of faggots who are either idiots like you that are waiting for trap thread, or someone browsing other cancer YLYL threads that always post the same shit. I'm going back to /pol/

>>735678523
I truly hope your right anon.

>>735678571
There's a reason why the concept is so popular historically. It's only falling out of favor recently because you liberals are all about denying your own nature and fighting for unrealistic ideals. Just accept who we are so we can finally make real progress as a society.

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>>735678560
>Obamacare is not accepted at many doctor's offices.
Not sure what state you're in, but WRONG.

There is no insurance called Obamacare. The Affordable Care Act is just rules for insurance companies to follow, and the fact you don't know that shows how fucking ignorant you are.

>>735678480
We are a global society though. America is a service economy and a large customer base is foreign because Dr provide services other countries can't provide or can't provide as well, usually through good ole American innovation.

Take a fucking economics course or two. Globalism is inevitable. Now the only thing we can do is figure out the best way to approach it, and "No approach" is not the best way. America's economy will only continue to become more intertwined with the rest of the world because Americans like cheap goods and services. Countries with competitive advantages can do things for us that would be much more expensive to do ourselves. If you are against globalization and for a more autocratic society, then you are in favor of massive price hikes and rises to cost of living for the middle class. Personally I would rather see the opposite and tax the rest of the world and our people better off for it. I mean fuck, we shouldn't be blocking immigration, we should be making people pay for it.

>>735678560
>Obamacare is not accepted at many doctor's offices
Its not its own insurance you get insurance because of it and if that insurance isnt accepted at a certain doctors office its not obamacare its the insurance. And an emergency room cant refuse you care but a family practice can. and still can under the ACA if you don't have insurance.

The change to renewable energy would create a ton of jobs and you couldn't just do it by flipping a switch

>>735678719
I was talking about the national healthcare insurance thing that was started during Obama-llama's presidency.

Plus who's bright idea was it to fine the uninsured anyways?

>>735678553
Nope, sorry. I. The anon who was defending Obama earlier with like 10 different points but he had piss poor foreign policy.

>>735678636
Good go the fuck back to /pol Fucking racist shitlord

>>735678560
You're missing something rather important, it's illegal for hospitals to turn you away for emergency care of life-threatening conditions.
The moment your life is no longer in immediate danger, you can be discharged. Non-emergency and preventative care is not covered.
Then, you suffer from the consequences of bankruptcy when you don't have the $20,000 cash lying around for your ER visit.

>>735678678
i met god once, and he gave me a pretty good idea of the revolution thats gonna come lol... iknow im retarded cuz god lol, but seriously, good things are coming

>>735678803
Precisely this. If you're already bankrupt with no assets, or rich, you can easily get healthcare, no problem.

>>735678748
I will the first point to you, as the healthcare situation is incredibly complex. I just think the Affordable Care Act was the wrong solution for this problem.

As for the infrastructure refit, it would create jobs, yes, but we would have to entirely withdraw from the world stage for years.

>>735678803
this

>>735678689
>liberals are all about denying your own nature and fighting for unrealistic ideals
Some of them are dumb as fuck but some of their ideas are good. Just like some righties ideas are good but they both have some of the dumbest fucking ideals.

>>735678803
I would much rather go bankrupt and/or be jailed than just fucking die.

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>>735678765
>the national healthcare insurance thing
there is literally no such thing.

>>735678896
Emergency health care.

Like they'll treat your heart attack when you have it, but sure as shit won't give you any treatment to prevent it from happening in the first place.

>>735678726
The only way I would support a global society is if the USA was in charge of it and could force other countries not to undercut us by using child labor and exploiting their poor. If it means paying more for goods so be it, maybe we'd start to realize we don't actually need all this shit in our lives anyway.

I'm against any system where we rely on others for our prosperity.

>>735678985
Well those are your choices in the US if you can't afford insurance.

>>735678774
Yeah, I'm not saying Obama's foreign policy was good. It was equal parts bloodthirsty and incompetent. I'm just saying that a) there is no direct causal relationship between Obama and the Arab Spring and b) Obama used violence and coercion to halt the democratic movements in allied nations like Bahrain and Saudi Arabia; meanwhile, he "weaponzied" genuine democratic uprisings in places like Libya and Syria in order to destroy unfriendly regimes.

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>>735678996
This.

>>735679048
have you considered not getting sick?

>>735678994
Yes there is you absolute asshat.
https://www.healthcare.gov/get-coverage/

>>735675346
Quit yer baiting and go back to yer 'bating.

>>735679072
Only the morally infirm get sick or have preexisting conditions.

>>735679072
well it's ok for *me* to get sick because im not poor enough to have no insurance. but yeah, poor people should just not get sick.

>>735678560
Hospitals don't fix everything. If you couldn't go to a doctor for years, the hospital can't fix all of your cancer riddled organs because you went unscreened. The "hospitals can't turn you away" is a shitty argument because preventative care costs tax payers less money, it's just like maintaining a car. And while we're at it, having the ability to get healthcare does NOT mean having the ability to afford it. THIS was actually one of the biggest problems with obamacare for a lot of business owners.

And no, consumer backlash did not stop Comcast and they did not get BTFO, they got away with it the first time lol. Consumer backlash does not work in monopolies because it is a zero sum game, and they especially don't work on monopolies for essential items. I'm very libertarian in many senses but we need capitalism with some regulation. Common sense should apply here. And the government I far less concerned with oligopolies.

And yes, not now. You have any idea how unreliable and inefficent fossil fuel was at the start of things? We need to push innovation and research for it to get better and/or cheaper, that's the whole point. Hopefully pushing the space program again will help a lot because that did wonders for American economy and private innovation in past decades.

>Infrastructure
Nope. Its actually pretty easy to phase in provided we don't get rid of fossils over night, which nobody in their right mind would suggest. Thats why the green party is so fucking stupid.

>>735679104
I'm not bashing the ACA's rules abput pre-existing conditions, it's one of the few parts of it I'm in favor of.

>>735679104
exactly.

That relative you're thinking about that died of cancer? Probably a pedophile or didn't pray enough. Don't diddle kids and tell jesus how much you love him every night and you'll never get sick.

>>735678936
The ACA was definitely not a great thing but completely dismantling it is a horrible idea. people who get preventative care cost less in the long run then those who only go to the doctor for emergencies. As for the refit just play both sides of the coin.

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>>735679086
If you aren't trolling you are literally too stupid to be allowed to vote. That is a marketplace for you to shop for insurance from different health insurance companies. I have Aetna health insurance that I purchased from the healthcare.gov marketplace.

>>735679178
See, all the GOP congress had to do was scrap the bad of the ACA, and keeps the good, but they couldn't even do that. This congress seems far too concerned with 'muh party line' to do so, unfortunately.

>>735679216
And how much do you pay for it?

Do you realize how much money that is for some people? Like, 'hmm, should i let my kids starve to death or buy health insurance'

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>>735679216
>too stupid to be allowed to vote

unfortunately, anyone but felons can vote... fucking america baby, vote against whats actually good for you cuz IM x PARTY I WONT EVER VOTE x

>>735679306
$43 per month.

>>735679282
Just get rid of the individual mandate. The insurance companies complaining and leaving the ACA are some vile motherfuckers they made a shit ton with the ACA

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>>735679356
Sad, but true.

I think most of the backlash against the ACA is people didn't actually know what it did or how it worked and assumed it was "free healthcare". Then their bills went up and lashed out on it because they don't understand why they have to pay more now.

It was definitely a surprise for me when I moved to Switzerland and later Germany, where I had assumed as a naive american that healthcare was "free" only to find out that the insurance is very expensive. I pay 430 euros a month here, which is a hell of a lot more than I paid in the US.

>>735679369
Without the individual mandate, the whole notion of a pool of both healthy+unhealthy individuals is utterly fucked.

Personally, I want to see MediCare availability extended to everybody.

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>>735679369
Here's the real problem. As long as health insurance corps are for profit we, the American people, are fucked.

>>735679367
mmhmm and your co-pays and deductibles are...

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>>735675346
No

>>735679439
Expanding Medicare to everyone would massive strain on the taxpayers, both rich and poor.

>>735679439
True but for some people they make just enough to not qualify for a discount but they are old enough that there coverage costs a fucking fortune.

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>>735679451
If only we had the efficient federal government allocating health care, we'd be better off.

>>735679439
Republicans would never have it they fucking detest medicare

>>735679398
lower taxes... listen now... lower taxes TO A POINT, are good for corps. they provide jobs to thousands if not tens of thousands in the US... BUT ITS ONLY TO A POINT! most companys get away with murder and pay next to nothing because deleware. or nevada. or whichever gov funded tax haven they choose.... i had a point, but im kinda drunk kek. we need to take money out of politics, thats really the only way to fix all this trash

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>>735679424
>I think most of the backlash against the ACA is people didn't actually know what it did
this guy >>735678765 is proof of that. I love all the videos of people who say they're against Obamacare but they support the ACA, not realizing they are the same thing. If Trump and the republicans get their way and trash Obamacare there is going to be a lot of buttmad rednecks who had no clue they voted to end their affordable insurance.

>>735679451
Well that problem is far bigger than the health industry and won't change until we have a revolution and guillotine the 1%, since they thoroughly control both political parties.

>>735679451
I think there should be a healthy balance between generating profit while not sacrificing quality. Inflated CEO salaries are a big problem but not the biggest. The current system is just a race to the bottom in quality, undercutting everyone while still charging the customer the same amount.

I think it could work with strict regulations that are actually enforced, but the way our political system works that would never ever get any serious consideration. Having it be nationalized is probably the only realistic thing, but to me it's not ideal.

>>735679398
>>735679356
Why vote for a party that wants to flood the country with competition for the working class? Wouldn't I be worth more, and be able to afford my own health care, if I didn't have to compete with all these 3rd worlders who have legally and illegally entered my country and compete for jobs?

Arguing your pro-healthcare point, wouldn't a government run healthcare system be more affordable to run without the uncontrolled/liberal immigration policies? Fewer barely educated 3rd worlders draining the system would reduce the strain on the system.

afk gotta go gay rape my farm's rooster

>>735679456
It's a silver level plan. My copays are $5.00 for an office visit with my primary care doctor and $9.00 for a 3 month supply for prescriptions. Also annual physical and related tests are free (no copay). I do have like a $1000 deductible for hospitalization and specialists though.

>>735679493
Which is why they need to expand the pool availability to the younger and healthier. If they can pay in, it brings the cost down for everyone. Additionally, preventative care - i.e. when you're younger - ends up being far cheaper longer term than getting old, finally getting coverage, and then having to deal with all the conditions that are then much harder to treat. It makes far more sense economically.

>>735679582
also for this to actually work we as a people would have to be willing to pay for quality instead of just hunting for the best bargain, so yeah, that's not going to happen any time soon. I can dream though.

>>735679551
Lower taxes for corporations do not add any jobs. A company making billions in profits can't afford to hire people? If they needed more people they would hire them.

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>>735679544
we would be.

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>>735679439
How about we try a free market?

Works for cars. Works for food.

But nah, I'm sure more regulation and taxes will solve the problem.

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>>735679562
not gonna argue that

>>735679655
this. I can understand why people think it would, since in an ideal world they would be funneling most of the profits back into the company, expanding and making more jobs etc and lower taxes would let them do that faster.

But CEOs and businessmen in general don't think like that. If expanding would generate more profit for them personally, they will do it. If they can make more money just staying put and maintaining the status quo they'll do that. The taxes don't really factor into it much.

>>735675346
given his competition, he's sadly the best president of this century, so far... and we're almost 2 decades deep...

>>735679703
There are tons of regulation for cars and food. no one would have a problem with more taxes if the shit heads in government would use them effectively but these fucks love to burn other peoples money.

>>735679562
>>735679747
You people are fucking animals, you know that?

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>>735679621
>Arguing your pro-healthcare point, wouldn't a government run healthcare system be more affordable to run without the uncontrolled/liberal immigration policies? Fewer barely educated 3rd worlders draining the system would reduce the strain on the system.
sounds good to me, but a huge wall with a picture of the orange demagogue on it will not solve the illegal immigration issue. It will only wast billions of tax payer dollars for a useless memorial for narcissistic douche-bag

>>735679703
Learn 2 inelastic demand. Free markets are usually pretty good for "regular" supply/demand, but fail horribly when demand is inelastic.

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>>735679786
and you're a brainwashed idiot, you know that?

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>>735679676
Yes, let's trade insurance companies for federal government bureaucracy.

Or we could try the competition of a free and informed market.

Idiot.

>>735679786
yeah, totally barbaric to think allowing 1% of the people to control 90% of all wealth is a bad thing.

the tax rate should asymptotically approach 100%. not a single fucking person on earth is doing anything that justifies $10,000,000+/year in compensation.

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>>735675346
>greatest president in modern times
OP is a brainwashed piece of shit or a shill

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>>735679785
>but these fucks love to burn other peoples money.

>>735679785
exactly. Our political system is far too slow and we never really see a return on our taxes. It gets taken out of our paycheck every week, but meanwhile the roads have been needing repair for a decade, the school system is broke, the police can't afford to keep the neighborhoods safe, etc.

Meanwhile they pick stupid as hell projects that would only benefit big city people like the politicians to spend our tax money on.

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>>735679877
>Or we could try the competition of a free and informed market.
yeah because that worked so well in the past.

>>735679877
>the competition of a free and informed market.
you mean the system that got us into this mess and necessitated the ACA?

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>>735679849
You think health care demand is inelastic?

Are you fucking retarded?

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>>735679915

>>735679862
I'm not the one advocating murdering rich people so that a new class of even worse rich people can take over.
>>735679893
You're advocating violence, of course I think you're. Even if I agreed with you I still would.

>>735679945
Rural areas get far more back in taxes than what they put in. When Trump threatened to cut off California, the people there started cackling with glee; they'd be far better off that way.

>>735679621
buddy, thats fair... but all i see from you is i i i, me me me... why not take a little to think about why thats an issue.

sure, i actually believe in stronger immigration, i believe in get out the ones that are here just to convert our currency into theirs. that is wrong, that takes money from us (not that much tbh, but it still steals from us

but if you are literally funding the economy through job creation (im talking proof pf this creation required) why shouldnt you get a break for improving the economy? im not saying give all large corps that employ americans but still outsource tax breaks. im saying the ones that are actually creating jobs, here, in our fucking country, in a way that they can prove, should get a break.

>>735677273
obummercare ruined so many small businesses as they couldn't afford healthcare for their full time employees guess what happened to those full time employees.... they're now part timers . let alone I used to pay $400 a month now I'm paying $900 a month. thanks Obama!

>>735680006
i know right, we never should have used violence against the british.

(ironically we'd probably be better off, but anyway...)

>>735679893
And another thing, whu shluld we punish people who are successful by making them pay more taxes? Are you saying success is a bad thing?

A flat tax of, let's say, 10% would be a far more efficient and fairer thing to do.

>>735680006
yeah, I hate it when people keep talking about killing the rich. They know deep down once they got their hands on the wealth they would cling to it and never let it go, becoming the people they just killed, or they are retardedly naive and someone else will do it for them.

The rich will always rule.

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>>735679986
Yes, the ACA saved me $2,500 a year.

No wait, I'm paying at $5K a year more.

Moron.

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>>735679945
>big city people

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>>735680053
citation needed.

(breitbart doesn't count)

>>735679993
Me and every single economist on the face of the earth are tards, then. Seriously, do a fucking google search for 'health care elasticity'. Or just fucking read the summary for, say, www.dtic.mil/get-tr-doc/pdf?AD=ADA403148
Or try to buy an EpiPen or insulin at 'market' rates.

>>735680072
We used violence because nothing else worked you historically illiterate mongrel. We tried EVERYTHING, but we had to use violence as a last resort. Unlike you and your ilk, who advocate killing people when there are still alternatives left.

See, that's the reason I respect the Revolution and those who fought in it: violence was used as a last resort.

>>735680101
replace that image with niggers and that's exactly what they were doing when Obama got elected. Ignorant people are on both sides and will always be shat on by the pandering politicians once they get their vote.

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>>735680092
sure kid

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>>735679966
Such a shame that Europe does not offer bankruptcy protection laws.

We are quite more civilized in the US.

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>>735680187
>replace that image with intelligent well educated people and that's exactly what they were doing when Obama got elected.

this also works. Can't be said when Trump won

>>735680088
Exactly, power corrupts all but the most purehearted believers of whatever their ideology might be. It's why so very few are fit to lead.

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>>735680203
You make a powerful argument for Federal government run healthcare.

>pro-tip: do it at a state level where it belongs

Retard

>>735680086
it's only fair to morons who don't think past a 3rd grade level

one analogy i like to use is, say two people have been poisoned and have a 300 units of antidote. But one person only needs 100 units to be cured, while the other person needs 200 units.
Is it 'fair' to give them both 150 units? Your logic says yes.


>>735680169
What effective alternatives remain to us in a system controlled by them? They control both parties full stop. Trying to lobby either party to enact reforms that damage the 1% substantially is on the same level as effectiveness as all the other methods colonists tried that you cite.

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>>735680208
they don't need them

>>735676456
In a war thats been going on for almost 20 years now.
Lil' Bush and Barry Soetoro had it the whole presidency, hopefully this crusade will be over before the next election.

Obama was best if you are looking from outside US. He was smart. charismatic and diplomatic.

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>>735680300
>pro-tip: do it at a state level where it belongs
sucks for you if you live in a red state. Lucky for me I live in a blue state.

>>735675346
Well if you're under 20, he's pretty much the only President you remember so......

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>>735680269
>nigger detected

>>735680329
yeah he pandered to you euros pretty hardcore.

>>735680146
ask my part time employees why they're not full time anymore.

>>735675991
Lmfao, don't forget he caused the housing crisis by making banks lend to people they knew were unable to pay

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>>735680362
Yeah, California is a pretty red state.

Mongoloid

>>735680440
You run a shitty company thats barely in business or you're greedy.

>>735680499
Or he lives in a state with a Republican leg/gov that fucked over the ACA implementation there.

>>735678633
Ocare passed without a single GOP vote. It didn't matter at all what these guys thought about anything, they were ignored and rolled during the vote. Not to mention that Ocare as Obama wanted it during the 2008 primaries was EXACTLY WHAT WE GOT (except for the mandate, whoops)!

You got no one to blame for this bullshit except Obama and the dems

>>735680440
>>735680499
This. You should quit and go work for someone who can actually manage a company and who does well.

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>>735680537
Yeah, that ACA law was not written very well, amirite?

>>735680499
I run a business to make money not give it away. sorry that you don't understand how running a business works. maybe when you go out in the real world you'll understand, scrotum cheeks. now get off of mommy and daddy's healthcare plan and go out and do something with your life

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>>735680499
Tell us about your business anon.

>>735680613
Nope, it wasn't, especially with what >>735680547
pointed out. The Dems should have just shrugged, given the GOP the middle finger, and implemented single-payer. But nooooo, they fucking wussed out as usual while the GOP were being obstructionist brats throwing their tantrums.

>>735680645
Greedy AND shitty, then.

>>735680316
Your first point has absolutely NOTHING to do with what a straight flat tax is like.

If one makes 30K per year, and another makes 100K, when the income tax is presumed to be a universal flat 10%, the man who makes thirty will pay only 3K in income tax, and the man who makes a hundred will pay 10K. Therefore, everyone pays the same proportion in income taxes.

Additionally, if a taxpayer has a serious medical condition or a household member with one, and they have a fairly low income, there would likely be, in an ideal flat tax law, exceptions so that this household could pay a slightly lesser percentage to compensate for the fact that they need more money for medical expenses.

As for your second point, consider that parties besides the big two exist, and by saying they are your only options, you are, ironically and hilariously, playing into the 1%'s hands. Not to mention of course that an armed revolution against the rich would ultimately only serve to reinforce their power, unless an overwhelming majority of the nation supported it.

>>735675607
pls guy. Barry pulled you out of the crisis, killed Osama, introduced legal weed and finally got you some acceptable healthcare. He is one of the most progressive presidents of all time.

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>>735680570
Exactly. Then we can tax and demonize your big business.

Fucking capitalists.

>>735680645
So your greedy. Your employees should go work somewhere else. Also I do concrete work for a living making 70K a year so don't try to tell me what work is. Also I doubt you run a business.

>>735680785
>70k for concrete work
I wasn't aware that line of work was that lucrative.

Not that's LODSEMONE or anything, but it's much better than what I'd expect.

>>735680713
You're still stuck on that 3rd grade notion of fairness, which explains why my point went entirely over your head.

Taking $3,000 from someone making $30,000, has a FAR bigger effect on quality of life than taking $100,000 from someone making $1,000,000. It's not even comparable. To say it's fair is deluded.

You are right about needing overwhelming majority support for revolution though. Once wealth inequality becomes so extreme that people can't sit in air conditioned rooms playing with electronics all day, that support will increase.

>>735680836
Depends on where you live and what you do for the company. I live in Washington unions help to keep the wages high.

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>>735680694
In 2008 the Dems had full control of the Senate, House and of course the White House.

Tell us again how the the fucked up ACA is the fault of the GOP.

I'm anxious to know.

Jackass

>>735680885
oh and by the way, so what does your 'simple flat tax' apply to? inheritance, capital gains, foreign income, offshored wealth, or the other 10,000 ways the 1% already exploit to pay less effective tax than the 99%?

>>735680917
The ACA is fucked up because of the GOP at the state level implementation, not because of the GOP at the federal level. It's fucked at the federal level because of the Democrats, no question.

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>>735675346
He has absolutely no competition for best 21st century president.

>dimwitted cowboy
>doctor of jurisprudence
>scam artist

>>735680888
I guess modern unions are good for something sometimes.

>>735681081
They can be but I won't work for one.

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>>735680973
>what is The Supremacy Clause

Being this fucking ignorant is not helping your leftist delusions my friend.

>>735680973
>because of the GOP at the state level implementation
True story. I wanted to subsidized insurance, but because my tea-bagger governor refused to allow it, I was forced to take shitty state-equivalent Medicare, even though I could afford private insurance.

>>735680973
Yeah New Mexico is down to 1 or 0 exchange insurers because of Republicans.

NOT!

>>735681081
When the Orange-you-glad administration starts gutting the Department of Labor, I think the unions will start playing a larger role in our society again.

...aaaand here come the chinks. SAD!

>>735680885
I cannot refute your point about the different impacts, and I must admit I do not have the most indepth understanding of tax law. Still, you can't deny that our current tax brackets are entirely arbitrary.

As for said revolution, I assure you that if that time comes, very few will rally behind your ideologies flag. Mainly you're way of thinking involves labeling everyone who makes whatever you arbitrarily decide is too much money, they're automatically the enemy.
>>735680964
An ideal flat tax plan would tax ALL yearly income, thereby closing many of the loopholes that the 1% can use.

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>>735681343
Unions sure showed those bosses in Detroit, amirite?

>>735681344
She's Japanese, so gook or nip would be the more correct slur.

>>735681470
Who is this?

>>735681439
Thats where unions fuck things up. they are doing it with Boeing in Washington state right now.

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>>735681523

>>735680964
why the hell do you want people to pay more tax just because you are jealous of their success? we are taxed out the fucking ying yang already. taking more money from other people does not increase your wealth or does it make you more prosperous. i just don't see your logic.

>>735681374
There's plenty of room for debate in what brackets pay what %, but that notion that all of them paying the same % is fair is what i'm objecting to. it's not fair for anything beyond the most simple, childlike notion of the word

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>>735680885
A person making $30K pays almost no income tax in the US. They sure pay a lot of other taxes the left seems to like though.

But then you've probably have never had a paycheck where you can see the deductions.

Good job.

>>735676074
So he's not allowed to go on holiday after ending his term? Isn't that what everyone would do?

At least he waited til the end. Trump spends most of his time chilling on the golf course now.

>>735681612
But you've yet to given why someone who makes more money should be obliged to pay higher taxes, especially when they cannot control what those taxes go towards? Do you just want to tax success?

>>735681696
*yet to give