Ok /b/, let's have a serious discussion about Islam, for

Because it is lies and advocates hatred of everyone not being muslim. It is fundamentally incompatible with a free society.

>>735477359
Both religions are only in your imagination and neither have any basis in reality. Every believer is only living in a fantasy world.That's the problem!

>>735477359
why are all mudslim attracted to sheep and goats?

because Islam encourages sand in the vagina

>>735477359
every religion is false.

>>735477359
>fake hatred
Yeah sure buddy

>>735477967
To the best of my knowledge Islam advocates the opposite. It does however want us to bring as many non Muslims to Islam as we can that's about all. Most definitely not impose Islam upon others.
See sura 109.

>>735477991
Actually countries without God and religion are the downfall and the backwardness of countries (such as America today those cancerous gender bent feminist and such).

>>735477359
>Ok /b/
>let's have a serious discussion about Islam
>Why do you not see Islam as the truth and light

You can't even try to hide how lazy of a bait thread this is anon.

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religions are only usefull if you use them to mind control your country , like hitler used to do.

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>>735477359
>muslims think they know the truth and the light
>can't even cast consecration
>mfw

allah is a faggot like u

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>>735477359
These kuffar will never get it. They only have one goal in their hateful minds.

Destroy and oppress every non-white person.
Their history proves this. They did it when they were religiously motivated, and they continue to do it when they are not religiously motivated. The motivation comes from their own rejection of Islam...

What can we say? Kaafirs gon' kaafir.
Stay strong and partake in Jihad if when they become hostile. It is the only way.

>>735478720
will be nice to turn your desert into glass lil sand nigger

>>735478720
Lolwut, Heck no. That's the exact same thing those ISIS retards say, you have me concerned now... Those 'Kuffars' are the ones who have progressed so much and helped us from time to time. And their mindset isn't to 'destroy every non white' history very much proves the opposite.

>>735478666
Nice trips. But no those are people who exploit religion for their own personal gain.

>>735478700
that pic looks like drawn by a 12 years old

>>735478888
See what I mean?

No wonder the world hates the white male. Black don't like you, Asians don't like you, Hispanics don't like you, Arabs and Muslims of all races don't like you. It's painfully obvious to see. White men are the root of all the worlds problems.

And they'll still cry about it and play the victim card instead of trying to change for the better.

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>>735477359

>>735477359

So how hot were A'isha and Umm Kulthum?

>>735478888
Quads has spoken.
Glass the sand niggers indeed.

Nice b8 btw
>>735479126
Dont you have little boys to rape?

>>735478945
Don't you see? They will hate and oppress/murder you regardless.

How many more centuries of western savagery and oppression will it take for you to see the true nature of their kind?

Their only hope is for them to accept Islam and be welcomed as brothers. Without Islam, they will continue to be barbarians.

>>735477359
Your holy book is filled with bigotry and sexism, your prophet is a pedophile, and religion is cancer anyway.

>>735479126
This dude is obviously b8ing and not a Muslim. Hateful twat.

>>735479243
I'm not a Catholic priest.

>>735477359
You want serious? Muslims dont disavow terrorism + prophets don't fuck 9 yr olds = FUBAR religion

>>735479279
Wow what do your owner's feed you? You are such a good parrot.

>>735479336
what you are is probably a little insecure shite behind the screen pretending to be a muslim

>>735479259
Oh sure they are the only savages right ? Well what about our own Muslim forces and what they done to Persia and what The Moors done ? They would boast about how many Jews/ Christians they killed. Don't only blame Whites our own Muslims committed those heinous crimes, we done just as bad or maybe even worse. Look past that hatred and racism.

>>735479400
Your eyes and ears are probably closed, if they were open then you would know that since every last major terrorist attack our Imams have condemned those attacks. Heck, just those attacks that happened last week and the weeks before almost all Imams across England have condemned them and have refused to carry out their funeral prayer (which is a very important prayer and part of our lives).

>>735477359
Jesus Christ is MY Lord and Savior.
Also fuck Islam Muslims in general and their lying/omission bullshit.
>Deus Vult!

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Deus Vult

Don't reply to this. Sage your posts. This is honest to god probably shareblue, don't be a retard and fall for bait this fucking obvious.

>Why do you not see Islam as the truth and light
Because it's demonstrably false.

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Deus vult

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>>735479757
I see, but why is it, is the question I'm asking here. ISIS ? Those are clearly a bunch of delusional radicals who have no love and mercy.

>>735479852
ISIS has nothing to do with Islam being demonstrably false. It's the Quran.

>>735477359
what is fake hatred? people hate nazis, because of their ideology. people hate muslims, because of their ideology. and because of you fucking ridiculously lying about it all the time. muslims are just annoying and unpleasent to live with. their behaviour and mindset is that of animals.

>>735479510
>Oh sure they are the only savages right ?
Nobody said that. They are the only ones who commit these acts and then deny it by rewriting history or flat out lying about their intentions in order to further oppress people.

>Well what about our own Muslim forces and what they done to Persia and what The Moors done ?

We took over empires and let people live as equals if they accepted Islam, as subjects of an Islamic empire if they chose to live under us or forced them to flee. Nobody died for the sole reason of being Jewish/Christian.Non-Muslim.

You are parroting their rewriting of history and deceit.

> Don't only blame Whites our own Muslims committed those heinous crimes, we done just as bad or maybe even worse. Look past that hatred and racism.
Africa was raised in status and began to modernize under Islam. When a person of any race accepts Islam, they are treated as equals. Brothers in Islam.
Just look at how the white missionaries treated blacks in Africa. These lying pigs go around the world preaching "Muh Jesus is peace and love" and "Jesus loves us all equal"... and even when the blacks agreed and took to their faith, they turned around and told them to get fucked and pick up the cotton. "Muh peace and love" went out the door.
Such is the deceit of the white man. When will you people realize?

>>735479852
that kinda perishes between all the xenophobia and killing which is the quran and the hadiths

>>735479510
No dumbshit. Not official stance...the everyday Muslim doesn't disavow terrorism. Yes, I DO know Muslims and all I get are excuses. I NEVER hear, crazy fuckers are crazy. One muslim bitch i know actually has her google picture as nyc without the towers. Muslims are worse than niggers.

>>735479988
>people hate nazis, because of their ideology.
Nazism is not a religion that has rules and ways to be practiced. You cannot be a Nazi if you believe in race-mixing or diversity.

Islam is a religion with rules and texts to interpret... a spiritual guide to life. not only can you be a Muslim without believing in terrorism or hatred. 99% of Muslims do exactly this.

>>735480241
This.

It's been 15 years after 9/11. People have worked out that there's loads of 'kill the christians' crap in the Hadiths and that muslims are allowed to lie to protect the image of Islam.

>>735480460
Polling by Pew puts support for terrorism at something like 25% of the muslim population. It's not 1%.

>>735480079
>https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Almohad_reforms
>Jews and Christians were denied freedom of religion, with conversion or death being the rule. This type of behavior was utterly unprecedented in previous Muslim caliphates. However, the Almohads were on a self declared Jihad, and they were willing to use brutal techniques to back up their holy war.[8] When the Almohads took control, many Jews were killed in the invasion. Believing they were on a divine mission, the overall philosophic goal of the Almohads was to turn Jews into Muslims.

Yea sure we were always about love and compassion, always right ?

>>735480241
>>735480391
What do you expect when we are a religion of almost 2 billion, you expect every last one of us to be good people ? Also the Quran doesn't preach hate. Please don't quote those 'violent' verses from chapter 2 when they were clearly meant for war time and the enemies, not for everyday non-Muslims.

>>735478168
This, the whole This, and nothing but the This.

/thread

>>735480574
>People have worked out that there's loads of 'kill the christians' crap in the Hadiths and that muslims are allowed to lie to protect the image of Islam.

Lol, no such thing. I guess in the age of Trump, fake news and anti-science, dumb rednecks will believe anything.

They certainly managed to distort the climate change data and fooled millions of dumb westerners with their "logic". I'm really not surprised they did it with Islam.

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>>735477359
Poor bait. Islam is and will always be worst type of cancer of this entire planet

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>>735477359
Fuck off, Sand Nigger

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>>735480460
>Nazism is not a religion
but islam is an ideology
>that has rules and ways to be practiced
an ideology is by definition a set of rules to be practiced
>You cannot be a Nazi if you believe in race-mixing or diversity.
exactly. that are the rules. so you're contradicting yourself
>texts to interpret
islam is the most concrete ideology there is. it's made to stop people from thinking for themselves and blindly follow the rules.
>a spiritual guide to life
there is nothing spiritual about islam
>not only can you be a Muslim without believing in terrorism or hatred
you don't know your own book. or do you think you can be a muslim and rejecting almost 60% of the quran at the same time?
>99% of Muslims do exactly this.
pic related, my deceiving friend

>>735480800
read the quran. do you want me to post the verses? do you really think you can lie about a thing, which can be easily looked up and proven false, just by talking to muslims about it?

>>735480713
Yeah,that does not prove Islam was at fault, it was the ruler.

Here's some context from your own article:

>The preceding Almoravid dynasty, while more repressive than some governments in Al-Andalus, was NOT VIOLENT.
Compare that to white man.

>During its golden age, Spain was open to a good deal of religious tolerance. For the most part the Almoravids let other people of the book, or other religions that held the Old Testament as a holy text, practice their religion freely.
White history revisionists and neo-nazis HATE this part as it is in direct contrast to their spin of Islam and hampers their deceitful propaganda.

>The golden age for Jews in Spain is considered to be under the relative lax rule of the Muslim Caliphates in al-Andalus. It was generally a time when Jews were free to conduct business, participate in government, and practice their religion without fear of persecution.
Yup. But they'll keep parroting "dey killz da jews!!"


>Jews and Christians were denied freedom of religion, with conversion or death being the rule.
This is where the "convert or die" meme comes from. But for context, read the next line.
>This type of behavior was utterly unprecedented in previous Muslim caliphates.
So, yes. Bad rulers did bad things, but Islam is quite clearly and most Caliphates followed Quranic laws of peace and tolerance.

>>735477991
Yeah, Mother Teresa was a real monster...

>>735481237
You can lie about anything these days. Look up "climate change is a hoax". There will no doubt be actual data presented on this narrative, but without context, the data is deliberately skewed to give an alternate conclusion and mostly low-IQ people fall for it because critical thinking skills are not taught in schools today.

The same thing has been done with Islam, and Jihadis and right-wingers alike have fallen for it.

>>735481358
I know very much about the Almoravids I was trying to specify what the Almohads done. Also so it was our rulers that were at fault and not Islam, similarly why are you blaming every white man when it was only the rulers ? Not all whites think like they did, also they are the very ones who are opening their country borders and welcoming our refugees in aren't they ?

>>735477359
For me it's that your faith, like every Abrahamic faith, has rules built into it to keep you from questioning it, leaving it, or considering faiths beyond it to be potentially true and reasonable.

Personally I hear the voice of Thor in the storm, the reason of Odin when I make decisions of logic. It is the ancient faith of my ancestors and it is strange to me that people who are not descended from the middle east follow a god of the middle east. Gods run our blood. Germanics will hear the gods, those of the middle east will hear the voices of their god, whether they call him Allah, God, Jehova, Yahweh, or things of that nature. It's my belief that some hear the voice of Tengri, or the Zoroastrian god(s) as well but perhaps ignore it for fear of persecution.

That's my belief anyway. Any faith with no room for other gods and respect for the existence of other deities can only be false to me, because if theirs was the only one, why would they be afraid to let people explore?

>>735480800
“I have been ordered by Allah to fight and kill all mankind until they say, ‘No God except Allah and Muhammad is the prophet of Allah’ (Hadith Sahih).”

Doesn't sound like fake news to me bud.

You're a liar.

>>735477359
all i need to know about islam is that allah doesn't exist.

>>735477359
>fake hatred

???

>>735481646
OP here, this. I respect this opinion very much well said.

>>735481578
>Because there is misinformation related to climate change, actual references to the Quran and Hadith that make Islam look bad are also false.

Whattaboutery: the post

just kys

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>>735478391
Actually you are dumb as fuck. There is plenty of countries where religion is not widespread and they are doing just fine, better than most actually.

>>735477359
All religion is for the weak minded. Muslim, Christian, it's all the same. Grow up, stop believing in fairy stories and accept that the highest beings that have influence over mankind are ourselves.

>>735481857
Thanks OP. I'm curious, are you an ancestral Muslim or have you adopted Islam?

If you have adopted it, I'm curious what caused it? I realize there has to be some flaw in my gods of blood belief, or so many white Christians wouldn't exist, but I want to know the why of it

>>735481278
>>735479852
>>735480460
>>735480800
>>735480713
quran 4:89
They wish you would disbelieve as they disbelieved so you would be alike. So do not take from among them allies until they emigrate for the cause of Allah . But if they turn away, then seize them and kill them wherever you find them and take not from among them any ally or helper.
9:5
And when the sacred months have passed, then kill the polytheists wherever you find them and capture them and besiege them and sit in wait for them at every place of ambush.
47:35
So do not weaken and call for peace while you are superior; and Allah is with you and will never deprive you of [the reward of] your deeds.
3:28
Let not believers take disbelievers as allies rather than believers. And whoever [of you] does that has nothing with Allah, except when taking precaution against them in prudence.
3:29
Say, "Whether you conceal what is in your breasts or reveal it, Allah knows it. And He knows that which is in the heavens and that which is on the earth. And Allah is over all things competent.
4:89
They wish you would disbelieve as they disbelieved so you would be alike. So do not take from among them allies until they emigrate for the cause of Allah . But if they turn away, then seize them and kill them wherever you find them and take not from among them any ally or helper.
5:51
O you who have believed, do not take the Jews and the Christians as allies. They are [in fact] allies of one another. And whoever is an ally to them among you - then indeed, he is [one] of them. Indeed, Allah guides not the wrongdoing people.
4:95
Not equal are those believers remaining [at home] - other than the disabled - and the mujahideen, [who strive and fight] in the cause of Allah with their wealth and their lives. Allah has preferred the mujahideen through their wealth and their lives over those who remain [behind], by degrees.
9:123
fight those adjacent to you of the disbelievers and let them find in you harshness.

I tried to read the koran once, couldn't even get half way before I was bored to tears. It was a few years ago so I can't remember the what and they why of it. But I do remember being annoyed at how often it said I MUST believe in the god and I MUST do this or MUST do that otherwise I'll burn for all eternity. I remember it using basic psychological tactics to try and trap the reader into believing in the religion or die. I could see how an un-educated, naive or gullible person would be scared into practicing the religion, just by the first few chapters.

tl:dr - the book is boring, irrelevant today and uses crude tactics to scare the reader into believing.

I'll pass on this one thanks.

>>735481095
This.

>>735481578
>You can lie about anything these days.
bullshit. you can lie about debatable things, not about obvious things. even though muslims do it anyway.
see here, liar
>>735482129

>>735477359
im from a strict muslim family, grew up and did hafiz which is basically the feat of learning the quran word for word from memory. After i finished i moved to the translation and long story short now ima closeted agnostic, ive also read the torah and studied the bible during my time at college, currently studying electronic eng AMA

>>735481594
>similarly why are you blaming every white man when it was only the rulers ?
1. Because white men brag about democracy and how it represent the majority. Their wars and oppression still happen today, emperor or not. That it means it is what they desire.

2. It happened in EVERY white empire, not just one exception. As stated in your link, many of the injustices were unprecedented in Islamic empires and had no place in Islam.
White men have murdered, oppressed, looted and enslaved everyone they have ever come into contact with, including themselves.

3. It's part of white culture to deceive the world into thinking they are tolerant, but their true colours are showing in the age of Trump and Brexit now that they have realized that tolerance and diversity might make the world equal and they will lose their dominance and power over everyone else, economically, technologically, militarily and socially.

>>735482151

Oh an also, child brides and genital mutilation mang, that shit is whack and needs to stop.

Islam means following the "perfect" life of Muhammmed.

The root issue is that the guy was nothing more than a successful liar, selfish sociopath of the 7th century.

He was a war leader, a serial killer, who kept on going to war and massacring people after he got in a position of force.

He married and fucked the wifes and daughters of his dead ennemies.

He ordered the murders of poets mocking him as a prophet.

He had sex with a prepuscent girl, and a slave, in his wife's bed.

He ordered to his first aging wife out to gtfo of his bed and leave her place to a ~15yo aicha.

He changed his "godly" principles on several occasions depending on the circumstances.

>>735477359
Wut happened to the original occupants of modern day Egypt?
>nice try/10

>>735482111
I'm actually an ancestral Muslim, my forefathers might've been Buddhists or something as I'm from a country in Asia called 'Kashmir' where Buddhism was quite popular.
Regardless I'm proud of being a born Muslim today. I looked at Christianity too and while it is a beautiful religion I don't believe it to be the complete truth while I believe Islam to the complete truth.

>>735482129
All those verses have contexts. You can't just take them out of their chapters without knowing the story being each one. They were all for war time use only. Not every day use.

>>735481689
Yeah, not Quran. Alledged quote by someone who claimed to have heard Muhammad say this. No context provided and incorrect translation.
>It doesn't say "mankind", it says "the people", referring to a specific tribe.
>muh skewed data

Even if you believe your own lies, it's clear that Muhammad never believed this as he accepted non-Muslims into Islamic lands and even signed treaties of peace with people of the book.

Come back with Quranic verses for the Muslim worshiper.

>>735481907
There is misinformation about the Quran too.

>lrn2analogy

Go to /pol/ U FUCKING faggot

>>735482582
>I believe Islam to the complete truth.

But why?

>>735482497
Actually no he wasn't, he never murdered innocents and never went around raping and shit as opposed to the lies people spew. He was merciful and loving he was also the one who would stand up all night in prayer till his feet became sore crying until his beard became soaking wet to God above for all of mankind and for the likes of you... Only for you to come here and mock him

>>735477359
Islam is a religion of peace, only if you are a Muslim though. When people get this through their stupid liberal heads, we will surely figure it out that Islam is a virus that needs to be eradicated

>>735482206
>bullshit. you can lie about debatable things
Trump lies about EVERYTHING and majority of white people LOVE him.

You can indeed lie about anything, as long as you're telling people what they want to hear.

>>735482661
It's from the Hadith. Muslims follow those too.

>>735482816
How is analogy appropriate here? I understand what misinformation is, I don't agree it applies to representations of 'Actually Existing Islam'

>>735477359

Because, religion is restriction, and why restrict myself in my time living when there is no proof of what is going to happen in the afterlife, to the degree if there even is a afterlife.

>>735482925
So Muslims, Christians, and Jews never lived in harmony together ? What about Jerusalem for a good 700 years ?

>>735477359
Religion in general is bs. The fact both islam and christianity exist and say different things about different events shows that it is all bs

>>735477359
Mohammad was a pedophile warlord. He was a good con artist though.

>>735482582
>All those verses have contexts.
in what context are these verses spiritual or morally good? these are demands and muslims follow them every day, as you can see, when you read the news.
>They were all for war time use only.
context doesn't show that, my friend. i have read the quran.
also, these verses clearly request persecution and warwaging against non-believers.
see these verses:
>But if they turn away, then seize them and kill them wherever you find them
if they turn away and they shall be killed, wherever they can be found, then it's not defensive. same in verse 9:5
>47:35
>So do not weaken and call for peace while you are superior
DO NOT CALL FOR PEACE. SAYS GOD. this religion is fucking retarded
>3:28
>Let not believers take disbelievers as allies rather than believers. And whoever [of you] does that has nothing with Allah, except when taking precaution against them in prudence.
this verse doesn't really sound like war, when precaution has to be taken.
>5:51
>O you who have believed, do not take the Jews and the Christians as allies.
says nothing about war and is a horrible islamic rule
>4:95
>Not equal are those believers remaining [at home]
it talks about remaining at home. that means, you GO to war, rather then defending yourself
>9:123
>fight those adjacent to you of the disbelievers and let them find in you harshness.
no comment needed really.

but you know all of this already, right muslim?

>>735477359
Islam can't be the truth. Only /b/ is the truth.

>>735482569
Not many muslamics happy with this query

>>735478391
How would gender and feminism play into secularism?

>>735483085
Muslims, Christians and Jews have never lived in harmony... ever. They set up boundaries.... i think that's what you mean.

No bacon

>>735477359
Islam is like a rat's nest. It's good to kill random rats, but to get rid of the infestation, one has to find the nest and destroy it. Islam and Mohammad are that nest. Muslims are just the random rats that inject, spread disease and are an all around nuisance.

>>735477359
first, all religions are totally unnacesary and most of them (specially judaism, christianism and islam) are a big scam to take your money. the difference is christianity at least has compatibilywith western societies, while islam is destructive, specially in recent years.

nothing else to add, you should already know that or you are an idiot

>>735483136
I'm not gonna go and debunk each of those verses for you, you can yourself read the full damn chapter of each of those verses and see exactly that it's talking about war time not for every day and shit, The fact that you claim them to not be for war time use shows me you never read the verses preceding that or the entire chapter.

>>735483140
Kek /b/ is the only truth

Islam talks about submitting to the will of God. Christianity teaches about following a redeemer. A choice not an obligation to obey

>>735479126
Asians love us. The other races are just jealous.

>>735483481
But isn't Christ going to come and kill all non believers in his second coming according to the bible

>>735483443
>I'm not gonna go and debunk each of those verses for you
LOOL, what are going to debunk? i just quoted the quran.
>you can yourself read the full damn chapter of each of those verses and see exactly that it's talking about war time not for every day and shit
no, it doesn't. i have read the whole book.

FUCK THE ISLAM !

>>735477359
To be honest Islam is just not creative. Even if Christianity takes from Hebrew at least they had a more entertaining story. Muhammad just plagiarized in the worst way.

>>735482927
i don't know, what you're thinking of, but trump never lied so ridiculous and irrational like muslims. you cannot lie about things, that are obvious and proveable in every day life. like muslims waging war and hating the west and that the quran is the worst ideology ever made

It's sort of the way they say it- submit, not follow. As though "Islam is love, Islam is life0

>>735483617
Since you've read the full Quran you would know the reason for those 'violent' verses, but it's apparent you don't. So either you're retarded or you're lying.

>>735482129
>quran 4:89
>They wish you would disbelieve as they disbelieved so you would be alike. So do not take from among them allies until they emigrate for the cause of Allah . But if they turn away, then seize them and kill them wherever you find them and take not from among them any ally or helper.
Who is "them"/"them"?
Read previous line, it is reffering to a group of hypocrites.
It is from a story about a specific battle at a specific time and what Allah had instructed Muhammad.

>9:5
>And when the sacred months have passed, then kill the polytheists wherever you find them and capture them and besiege them and sit in wait for them at every place of ambush.
Again, who is "they"/them?
Read from beginning of Chapter, don't just start at line 5.

>9:1 [This is a declaration of] disassociation, from Allah and His Messenger, to those with whom you had made a treaty among the polytheists.
>9:4 Excepted are those with whom you made a treaty among the polytheists and then they have not been deficient toward you in anything or supported anyone against you; so complete for them their treaty until their term [has ended]. Indeed, Allah loves the righteous [who fear Him].
Clearly a specific time, specific people and rules for confrontation.

You are deliberately misquoting to deceive and insinuate that the verse is talking about you so that you may play the victim card.

More to follow. Copying and pasting from Stormfront and hate sites is easy, reading and understanding is difficult, hence you cannot do it.

>>735482924
He murdered everybody who was challenging him as a prophet.

https://wikiislam.net/wiki/List_of_Killings_Ordered_or_Supported_by_Muhammad

He fucked all the girls he could fuck. Slave, wife of his dead ennemy (Kinana's wife), 12yo (aicha).
At the end of his life he had 10 wives.

Also, this asshole (ie : "Allah" in his disturbed mind) changed his mind on several occasions
http://www.answering-islam.org/Responses/Menj/changing_allah.htm

In resume, he just acted as a typical selfish asshole during his whole life.

The guy basically went like "surrender or I kill you all", then proceed in killing the one's disagreeing, then marrying some 13yo teenage girl or dead ennemy's wife, stealing all power and wealth available, lying to his soldiers to keep them motivated (allowing rapes, and inventing a paradise of eternal erection and virgins)...

And now like 15 centuries later some retards still worship him because it is said he was spiritual and cool from time to time.

The phrase "religion of peace" was first said by George Bush after 9/11.

>>735483481
Sorry trying to figure out how to reply to posts. I just think Islam is stricter. Catholic Church recognizes validity in teachings of other faucets, but believes it's the best way. Islam acts like it's the only way.

>>735483755
>Read previous line, it is reffering to a group of hypocrites
oh well, it's cool then, i guess. i mean, they are hypocrites right? cool religion you got there m8
>It is from a story about a specific battle at a specific time and what Allah had instructed Muhammad.
prove it
>9:5
>>And when the sacred months have passed, then kill the polytheists wherever you find them and capture them and besiege them and sit in wait for them at every place of ambush.
>Again, who is "they"/them?
err, the polytheists, as you can read IN THE SAME FUCKING LINE
>Clearly a specific time, specific people and rules for confrontation.
no, it's still general. "those you have made a treaty" is not a specific event, but refers to all cases, in which a treaty with the polytheists have been made. did you go to school?
>misquoting
haha, nope, these lines are from the quran
>so that you may play the victim card.
no dude, i didn't. i was talking about facts. and you are literally talking about being treated wrong by me the line before, playing the victim card
>Copying and pasting from Stormfront and hate sites is easy
no, quran.com
>reading and understanding is difficult, hence you cannot do it.
which is ridiculous considering, what you just wrote

>>735482977
>It's from the Hadith. Muslims follow those too.
Yes, but it is subject to interpretation and allowed to be questioned, unlike the Quran. Many are answers to questions which people had asked and some quotes were found to be completely made up.

Hadiths are not essential to Islam as they were compiled over 300 years after Muhammad's death.

>How is analogy appropriate here? I understand what misinformation is, I don't agree it applies to representations of 'Actually Existing Islam'
If scientific data can be misrepresented to disprove the narrative that human activity is causing dermatological anomalies, then the Quranic verses can definitely be misrepresented to prove Islam advocated terrorism.

>>735484163
>>It is from a story about a specific battle at a specific time and what Allah had instructed Muhammad.
>prove it
It involves something you cannot do, read the entire Chapter. In the age of Trump, people seem to want one-line answers and proofs to the simplist things. No wonder most of your people deny science. They don't have the logic or brains to comprehend it anymore. What a wasted society.

>err, the polytheists, as you can read IN THE SAME FUCKING LINE
>Clearly a specific time, specific people and rules for confrontation.
no, it's still general. "those you have made a treaty" is not a specific event, but refers to all cases, in which a treaty with the polytheists have been made. did you go to school?

Yeah, clearly you never read from the begiining, because you don't have the attention span.

>9:1 [This is a declaration of] disassociation, from Allah and His Messenger, to those with whom you had made a treaty among the polytheists.

>to THOSE with whom you HAD made
>THOSE
>HAD
>PAST TENSE.
Specific time, specific people. You are really stupid.

>>735477359
Fuck off OP, you're probably a sandnigger mudslime. Nah, I am just keking.

In seriousness, why I do not see Islam as the truth and the light? Besides the obligatory I was not born into it and indoctrinated. Probably because it stands against a lot of my core values, freedom of speech (if I want to insult the Muslim prophet I should be able to, not get killed), and many other values I hold dear.

I do not really have a problem with Islam per se, rather all religions are equally false to me. Likewise, Islam and Christianity are both equally bad to me in terms of Holy text. However, most Christians are secularized. With Islam the problem with the majority of its followers, is they do not want to integrate, the never want to secularize.

>>735483880
I fucking Google Ngram'd this, you're right. Bush made the religion of peace meme, kek.

>>735484210
>Hadiths are not essential to Islam as they were compiled over 300 years after Muhammad's death.

Sunni, and Shia Islam would disagree, they view the concept of the Qur'an best understood with the Hadith. To say Hadiths are not essential is disingenuous.

>If scientific data can be misrepresented to disprove the narrative that human activity is causing dermatological anomalies, then the Quranic verses can definitely be misrepresented to prove Islam advocated terrorism.

Scientific data can be P-hacked, literary text can be ripped from its context dependent meaning. I get you, but I raise this: If religion is so important, why are we not given proof that removes all doubt.

>>735482129
>4:89
This verse follows verse 89. Verse 90 of chapter 4:
Except for those who take refuge with a people between yourselves and whom is a treaty or those who come to you, their hearts strained at [the prospect of] fighting you or fighting their own people. And if Allah had willed, He could have given them power over you, and they would have fought you. So if they remove themselves from you and do not fight you and offer you peace, then Allah has not made for you a cause [for fighting] against them.

>9:5 you lied, you purposefully cut out the second part of the verse:
And when the sacred months have passed, then kill the polytheists wherever you find them and capture them and besiege them and sit in wait for them at every place of ambush. But if they should repent, establish prayer, and give zakah, let them [go] on their way. Indeed, Allah is Forgiving and Merciful.

>47:35:
(47:35) So, be not faint-hearted and do not cry for peace.41 You shall prevail. Allah is with you and will not bring your works to nought.
41. Here, one should bear in mind the fact that when this discourse was revealed only a handful of the Muslims consisting of a couple of hundreds of the Muhajirin and Ansar living in the small town of Madinah were upholding the standard of Islam and they were not only faced by the powerful Quraish but also by the whole of pagan Arabia. Such were the conditions when they were exhorted not to show weakness and not to beg (the enemy) for peace, but to make preparations for the decisive conflict. This does not mean that the Muslims should never negotiate for peace, but it means that in a state like this it is not right to initiate peace negotiations when it shows the Muslims’ weakness, for it will still further embolden the enemy. The Muslims should first establish their superiority in power and strength; then if they negotiate peace there will be no harm.

You can look up the rest yourself, that's just a few

>>735477359
Go fuck a goat ya sand nigger

>>735477359
read the koran and have sex with a child then you know

>>735484672
>It involves something you cannot do, read the entire Chapter. In the age of Trump, people seem to want one-line answers and proofs to the simplist things. No wonder most of your people deny science. They don't have the logic or brains to comprehend it anymore. What a wasted society.
stop whining and show me the verses. but your babbling shows, you can't
>Yeah, clearly you never read from the begiining, because you don't have the attention span.
that's it? no argument?
>>THOSE
>HAD
>PAST TENSE.
>Specific time, specific people. You are really stupid.
AHAHAHAHA, you must be the most retarded kid ever. it still is general, when talking about every case in which a treaty has been MADE. god damn it, muslim. have at least some dignity and shut up, when you're obviously stupid

>>735484897
2000 character cap or I would've debunked all of the verses that moron quoted claiming to be violent. Like I said do your own research not googling 'violent verses in the koran' or some shit.

>>735484896
This is true most Muslims including my own family & friends are quite stuck onto their religion and want to stay that way, not become secularized.

>>735477359
>Why do you not see Islam as the truth and light

I don't believe in any "light" except the one that I can bring to myself through meditation. Everything you need to be happy is already contained within yourself, no need to delude yourself by believing in some magic dude from the sky.

>>735484897
>This verse follows verse 89. Verse 90 of chapter 4
so? this hardly makes this better. don't fight those who surrendered? what a noble morality! and there are enough verses that contradict this
>But if they should repent, establish prayer, and give zakah, let them [go] on their way.
so what is better about that? thats called racketeering. so the one perfect god is a mobster?
>revealed only a handful of the Muslims consisting of a couple of hundreds of the Muhajirin and Ansar living in the small town of Madinah
prove it

>>735477359
because it's silly to believe in a god that wants to do harm to the beings it created, let alone some of its ardent followers.

Why holy books need to be set aside making way less dogmatic brainwashing and more self directed thinking by seeking the use of knowledge and self actualizing as a thinking person who does more than read religious texts

>>735485208
>Like I said do your own research not googling 'violent verses in the koran'
finding verses of the quran by googling doesn't really change those quotes, does it. muslims killing and hating every day is also kinda prove, don't you think?

>>735477359
Sorry op but islam just isnt a good religion. Im not saying any religion is much better, but it hasnt contributed or advanced any society that supports the religion its self and sharia law. From what I know, islam has infact stolen many ideas and inventions from other cultures like india. Islam just fuels hatred and slavery, it hasnt invented math or anything useful. Also God hated mohammed.

>>735485406
>>This verse follows verse 89. Verse 90 of chapter 4
>>But if they should repent, establish prayer, and give zakah, let them [go] on their way.
>so what is better about that? thats called racketeering. so the one perfect god is a mobster?

Because that verse came about during war time...

>>735485554
Yes but that's just humans for you, we'll always be fighting due to difference of opinions/ religions etc. Sad but true.

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I believe in fairies

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>>735477359
Islam is violent at its core. What Islam needs is a new testament to make the religion tolerant (not more tolerant, that implies it has some tolerance at all) that will work with the "moderates" and the extremists because the newer passages will take precedence over the older stuff.

This is super unlikely as fuck though.

The problem currently is that Islam advocates for a new government system, murder, and the forced conversions of others to Islam.

The problem is that Muslims in small numbers will normally behave like the general populous, but once enough Muslims are present the extremist will get their views out and the moderate or non-extremists Muslims just don't give a fuck enough to stop them. If they did try to stop them, there is enough of a witch trial mentality within Islam that all of the others would join into their persecution to avoid getting stoned to death. No one in Islam wants to admit to waning on their commitment to Allah to another Muslim. This shit escalates and eventually you get terrorism.

>>735485716
>Because that verse came about during war time
prove it
>Yes but that's just humans for you
so, you hate fighting, but follow a book which calls for fighting? that doesn't make sense. what is spiritual about that? what is spiritual about beating your wife? god is not a fucking redneck. reject this book, or your not better than nazis

>>735478391
See, my thing is, while Sura 109 is an example of a positive message in the Quran, there are also numerous passages advocating violence. These calls to battle and peace are even contradictory at times. Prime example:

Quran (9:29) - "Fight those who believe not in Allah nor the Last Day, nor hold that forbidden which hath been forbidden by Allah and His Messenger, nor acknowledge the religion of Truth, (even if they are) of the People of the Book, until they pay the Jizya with willing submission, and feel themselves subdued."

Quran (29:46) - "Do not argue with the People of the Book except only by the best manner, except the unjust among them. Tell them, "We believe in what is revealed to us and to you. Our Lord and your Lord is one. We have submitted ourselves to His will"

"People of the Book" are Christians and Jews. These passages state to both accept them, and to kill them.

>>735478391
>>735477359
Fact: the most religious places in the world have the lowest measure of quality of life indicators.

U.S. is the oddity for GDP

>>735479852
>Those are clearly a bunch of delusional radicals

not really. They're Islamic fundamentalists and no good argument can be made otherwise.

They follow the Qur'an and the Hadith to the letter.

They are faithful men of Allah.

Derivative abrahamic monotheistic religions were created to enslave populations and were used as such
Judaism, Hinduism, Buddhism and the other older now extinct Pavan religions have always been closer to the true nature of God and spirituality as well as the true human condition.

Yesterday I saw a bill Maher episode where his black professor friend talked about white privilege and black enslavement while professing allegiance to Christianity, the white man's tool of population enslavement and culture of dependence. He was unaware he is still a slave.

>>735485176
>AHAHAHAHA, you must be the most retarded kid ever. it still is general, when talking about every case in which a treaty has been MADE. god damn it, muslim. have at least some dignity and shut up, when you're obviously stupid

>Asks for proof
>Provides logical literal proof
>hurr durr lemme tell you what it means because I have no argument for what your proof is flawed


It even references a certain four month period during which they are allowed to travel freely, how can this be applied today?

Besides, you're talking to an actual Muslim here, and we know the lies you spread, so I was able to catch you out. At least you were able to concede that it refers to the polytheists under treaty.
When you are out deceiving other naive people, you will crop it out the same way and try to insinuate that it refers to all infidels like a typical western liar.
I've seen it on countless anti-Muslim sites.
You people have no shame.

>>735486970
>>Provides logical literal proof
you didn't even get it. this is no proof. it's still an abstract rule and you didn't deliver anything to back up the claim, that it was written for one specific event.
>It even references a certain four month period during which they are allowed to travel freely, how can this be applied today?
why not?
>and we know the lies you spread
what fucking lies? i quoted the fucking quran.
>At least you were able to concede that it refers to the polytheists under treaty.
while you were asking yourself, what "them" means. what is good about this verse, when it refers to polytheists? are you retarded?
>When you are out deceiving other naive people, you will crop it out the same way and try to insinuate that it refers to all infidels like a typical western liar.
i have just read the quran. i know, what your religion is about. and seeing how muslims behave today, it all makes sense. face it.
>I've seen it on countless anti-Muslim sites.
seen what? quran quotes?

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>>735477359

Literally a congame, Mohammed trying to out-jew the jew.

Militant ideology, all the peace and love shit at the beginning is overridden by the violent shit at the end of the novel.

Serves no purpose except to take over the world, just like the jews.

Just like the jews you have to cut a piece of yourself off, and not only that, cut a really important piece off of girls too.

> Has no noteworthy miracles associated with it either.
> Has some bizarre aversion to Pork, an animal meat which is safe to eat at an even lower temperature than beef.

Disguises itself as a religion to fly under the radar when its more like The Art Of War.

Women can do whatever they want, so this has NO appeal to a girl at all unless she gets tortured into doing it.

>>735487684
>Militant ideology, all the peace and love shit at the beginning is overridden by the violent shit at the end of the novel.
the quran fucking begins with "why jews and christians are wrong and we are the best"

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>>735487684
Study found that circumcision causes the brain chemistry to alter.

Also having less sensation, less ability to get an emotional release, causes that desire for a release to grow stronger.

...Leading to perversions of sexuality, hightened libedo thats harder to control, pedophilia, and so on.
> makes you a sexual criminal waiting to happen.
>>735487756
I don't give a fuck about any of them. Im completely outside the Mono-thiesm interest.

> inb4 Spiritual and actually works with divinity in real life, miracle worker. Its a science to me.

In my experience it can be summed up much more simply than any of these books talk about, and with less restrictions too.

And all 3 of these religions are wrong. Also you dont have to be the actual end-all to be all "god" in order to demonstrate power/miracles.

Demons/Imposters can appear to be heavenly and provide proof of power too. People forget that part of the logic tree somehow.

>>735487403
>you didn't even get it. this is no proof. it's still an abstract rule and you didn't deliver anything to back up the claim, that it was written for one specific event.
Except it's not. It wouldn't have been written in past tense if it was intended for all time. Use your brain, I know that's something modern westerners resist, but you must start know.

Eg.
>This is a suggestion for dumb westerners who should have used their brain
Is not the same as
>This is a suggestion for dumb westerners who don't use their brain
If you cannot see a difference, then clearly western education is failing.

>why not?
Because those for months have a centuries ago.

>what fucking lies? i quoted the fucking quran.
You can still lie through omission. Are westerners really this stupid?

>while you were asking yourself, what "them" means. what is good about this verse, when it refers to polytheists? are you retarded?
Specific polytheists whom were hostile. It is about the battle of Tabouk.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/At-Tawba

>i have just read the quran. i know, what your religion is about. and seeing how muslims behave today, it all makes sense. face it.
You clearly have not. You seem to only parrot carefully cropped verses to suit an agenda. A person who has read everything will not ask such stupid questions you are asking.

>seen what? quran quotes?
Deceit, misquotes and deliberate omission.

>>735488071
Source?

>>735488799
>It wouldn't have been written in past tense if it was intended for all time.
HAHAHA, fuck, you are one classic idiot. it can be written in the past tense and still be an abstract rule. what about the following sentence: "in every case, where a treaty has been made, do this and that"
>western education is failing
you're the last, who should talk about failed education. see above
>Because those for months have a centuries ago.
where does it say that? i could be ANY four months
>omission
omit what? what you're demanding is, to quote the whole quran, when talking about one rule, written in it. i know, it's just another way to avoid criticism
>Specific polytheists whom were hostile. It is about the battle of Tabouk.
show me the verse in the quran already
>You clearly have not.
i have.
>You seem to only parrot carefully cropped verses to suit an agenda.
i'm right though. if you disagree, show some arguments
>Deceit, misquotes and deliberate omission.
same here. just saying "no", doesn't really make the quran a better book

>>735489247
>in every case, where a treaty has been made, do this and that
>HAS vs HAD
Illiterate westerner alert.

The sentence "in every case, where a treaty HAD been made, do this and that" is grammatically incorrect.

Do you see what I mean about deceit. Nice strawman.

>omit what? what you're demanding is, to quote the whole quran, when talking about one rule, written in it. i know, it's just another way to avoid criticism

The Quran is not ONLY a set of rules, though rules are included. It also includes stories and accounts of events and instructions given to Muhammad presented as lessons.
If you've actually read this story, you'd understand.

>show me the verse in the Quran already
You cannot understand an entire Chapter based on one verse. That is why they make you study Shakespeare in school. Did you just get by memorizing "to be or not to be" and undertood the entire scene? Surely you had to read the whole thing to understand it's context. Unless you never bothered with them "edumakasun books".

>i'm right though. if you disagree, show some arguments
Yet you cannot prove it... strange.

>same here. just saying "no", doesn't really make the quran a better book
You're the one that is refusing to accept clarifications because when you cannot control how the verse is presented, you cannot spin it and make up lies.

Stay mad. You know what you are doing, but are too insecure to admit it. I forgive you though.

>>735490420
>>HAS vs HAD
what difference does it make? thats not, what it says there. verse 4:89 clearly talks about, what to do in general. even if it only would apply to a specific time (which is not implied anywhere), it still would be an abstract rule to apply to FUTURE CASES. you must be the most ridiculous idiot i have ever talked to
>The Quran is not ONLY a set of rules, though rules are included.
how does that answer to what i said?
>You cannot understand an entire Chapter based on one verse.
haha, evading again? i want the proof, that these verses only apply to the battle of whatever you wrote above. but you can't. these verses are not referring to this event. they are meant as a general rule. otherwise it would have to be in there, right? lol
>Did you just get by memorizing "to be or not to be" and undertood the entire scene?
it's a story. quran isn't a coherent story. i know, because i have read it. i was asking for proof of your claims, that these verses only apply to one specific event. you couldn't
>Yet you cannot prove it
prove what? you wanted to "debunk" the quran-quotes (whatever that means). and then you did nothing but being ridiculously stupid
>accept clarifications
what fucking clarification? you didn't do anything
>when you cannot control how the verse is presented, you cannot spin it and make up lies.
but you fucking didn't present the verse, that would support your claim.
>You know what you are doing
showing, what islam is about by quoting the quran?
>but are too insecure to admit it
admit that i know, what i am doing? what does that mean?
>I forgive you though.
forgive what

>>735491661
what are you doing? i want the muslim to answer, stop pushing the thread towards 404ing