Another reminder that Energy (mass) cannot be created or destroyed

Why doesn't God smite me for watching midget porn

>>735172902
I don't think he cares in the very least about what we do. Hence, no provable existence and no provable non-existence.

>>735172994
Yh but I'd smite me

>>735172799
Im actually jealous of you believers in god. i am an atheist because on my head, its fisically impossible for a god to exist and because of that, there is no after-life. To me, all of me is in my brain and as soon as that stops ill basically be erased, for you christians, you believe in heaven so, basically, you have something to live your life as a good person and not do anything stupid. I dont have that and one day im sure ill do something that i wont be able to regret because well... i wont be here anymore, keep believing in what you want, us atheists might not admit it, nor even know it, but we are afraid of what comes after.

>>735174313
I'm an atheist and I couldn't give less of a shit about what happens after I die

>>735172799
Conservation of mass don't real.

E=MC^2 is literally the conversion of mass to energy.

>>735174477
well thats what happens when you are too dumb to think about it

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>>735174313
Your arrogance is astounding. I am jealous of you, I really wish I was that stupid. Life would be much easier.

>>735174522
No it's when ur smart enough to realize it doesn't matter how much u think about it you'll never know

>>735174513
you ever heard of those particles that appear out on nowhere in space ? its like, 2 of them appear at the same time, a positive and a negative, than they both colide and go back to not existing. proves that conservation of matter is not existant, at least not everywhere

>>735172799
Why couldn't that something be the big bang? Or an expansion from a parallel universe? Or the flying spaghetti monster? If science is lying about no good then why would they be telling the truth about conservation of energy anyway?

>>735172902
Cause it's awesome. God made midgets to keep pedophiles from fucking children

>>735174650
Yeah, particles can bounce around, appear and disappear, but they don't come from nothing. This idea violates the first law of thermodynamics

>>735174533
yeah keep using those big words trying to look smart while youre probably as stupid as me, why else would we be on 4chan looking at fucking pages on pages of cock rates, traps, furries and tribute threads

>>735174650
A better proof than that is nuclear fission.

You split an atom, but some of the matter is destroyed, converted to energy. It's what makes nuclear power possible.

Even conservation of energy is a law dependent on the physical constraints of our universe. So whatever happened before the big bang likely had different laws governing it.

>>735172799
I don't think that we have enough information to reach consensus on this topic. The more we learn, the more we realize how little we actually know. The only thing that is truly stupid is believing you have all the answers.
Praise KEK

>>735174735
The big bang theory relies on both the existence and space for there to already have matter in a universe that couldn't be possible without a creator to actually provide the space and energy for the bang to happen.

>>735174735
do not say the name of the great spaghetti monster in vain

>>735174824
No matter is destroyed. It is converted.

>>735172799
Then what placed god there?

/Thread

>>735172799
> energy cannot be created or destroyed
> therefore something had to create that energy
Are you even trying anymore?

>>735175000
The creator would exist outside of the dimension of time. Time wouldn't be a factor. Thus, no beginning and no end.

>>735175053
Outside of our universe.

>>735172799
The universe has always existed. That's your answer

>>735174804
He's right u know

>>735174995
Yes, to energy.

That's what I'm saying. The matter ceases to exist. More matter isn't spontaneously generated to balance out the universe. Conservation of matter is not a physical law unless you're talking about newtonian physics and even then it's a shorthand assumption.

>>735175150
So energy can be created

>>735175196
We don't all come here for faggot traps, kid porn, or sucking logs of shit. I come here for rekt and memes

>>735175053
Fuck dude. Good point.

>>735175312
He capitalized on my mistake. The energy comes from somewhere else and was transferred her by the creator. I made a mistake.

>>735172799
>energy cannot be created or destroyed
>therefor energy must have been created at some point
>god
Look idk whether there's a god or not but that logic is just dumb

>>735172799
If you want to say that God created the Big Bang, and the amount of initial energy was determined by God, and that all else that came after was simply the laws of physics flowing from that time forward ... well, you can, but that's, i dunno .. why posit a God at all then? Just say the Big Bang happened.

The laws of thermodynamics can only be applied to a closed system.
Do you have proof that our universe is a closed system?

>>735174642
>>735174797
Virtual Particles. And because they appear and disappear so quickly, they don't violate conservation, because they are within quantum limits.

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Can't be c r e a t e d or destroyed. What exactly do you mean by 'placed' then? If not created then transferred/moved? In all likelihood that energy has simply always existed in some form, and will always exist in some form. Especially since that energy is pretty much 'existence' itself. Neither time (or anything else) can exist outside of it, except in something similar. It is the fabric of any space where something can exist. Before the big bang it was a singularity, before that something else. What exactly would any being external to that be? I'm not exactly an atheist, but that's a shitty argument. My theory: I don't think there is any god external to the universe, rather god is the universe (all existent energy) itself and everything inside of it including us. This energy transforms, expands and contracts eternally without beginning or end. 'God' then is a morally neutral force that certainly is neither omnipotent nor omniscient; just matter/energy opposing and pushing out from void to gain increasing levels of complexity. Hence evolution, the organisation of structures within the universe into exponentially complex systems. The semi-deistic part of this is that I think these organisational processes are (maybe) at least partially controlled, or at least pushed into particular directions by forces in the background that can't really be speculated about at our level of understanding. It's hard to explain further what I have in mind and I can't be fucked dedicating half an hour to trying to write it out, but i'll say this: I think there's a fuck of a lot more to awareness/ sentience than there seems to be. Don't confuse this with ego\sense of identity\thought\emotion or any other mental process (all of which are 100% biochemical mental processes that can be altered chemically, electrically or surgically). What I mean: the part of you that (rather than generate) experiences those other mental processes and external stimuli; I think its beyond biology

>>735175978
I would say that our universe is a closed system....to us. To an inter-dimensional being, not so much.

>>735174932
Absolutely not! The Big Bang does NOT require space to already exist. Do not think of a big cardboard box, and the point in the middle being the start of the Big Bang that expands into the box.

Space itself is created, and expands, with the Big Bang. There is no "space" outside the Big Bang for the Big Bang to expand into. That's just the way the current model is.

If there -is- any "outer" space, such as Brane Theory, we haven't discovered it yet. Look into String Theory!

>>735175110
If something can have no beginning and no end, then that something can be the Universe itself, and there is no need for God. Just sayin', you have to accept that argument as well, since that is the principle you are putting forth.

>>735172799
Your retarded, big bang was not a ball of energy that has now expanded and thinly veiled it's not a fucking rubber band. Where it draws energy from other unknown\untested sources beyond our cosmos is yet to be seen nor to be worried about because we will either all starve to death or die before helping our children escape this Rock to conclude that question. Fuck face

>proving god by science
when will this bs end?

>>735176207
So, there was no space for the giant clouds of gases to condense into a ball in? That's stupid. There had to be space for the materials. Now, obviously the big bang made that space larger, but the space for mass to exist, had to exist before the big bang.

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>>735174804
>bitching about someone using "big words"
>being this retarded

>>735176174
Really? Cause I would say it's an open system.
And one that's constantly expanding at the speed of light.

And what exactly is an "inter-dimentional being"? Do you have and example of one?
Cause it sounds like some made up fantasy shit you pulled out of your ass...

>>735176286
Your same exact argument works against atheism as well though. If you can say that the universe itself can have no beginning/end, then why can't a god exist?

>>735176372
Science and math are the brushes with which the creator painted our universe.

They aren't enemies, except for dumb people.

>>735176562
You just don't prove god using science. It's not how scientific method works.

>>735176511
The universe is shrinking.

>>735172799
https://m.youtube.com/results?q=creation%20according%20to%20genesis&sm=1

Check out how God created everything.
Maybe it'll make sense to some.
Idk why it's hard to think there is a god.
Government and schools seem to be obsessed with hiding god and making ppl think he hates us.
Blows my mind away. Ppl can't even see that it's deceivery.
Bible mentions that Jesus had hair like wool and skin like bronze.
Current picture we see today of white skin and wavy long hair is deceivery.
Talks about churches are corrupted.
Talks about Lucifer took Jesus to a high mountain. Showing off all the nation's and it's glory and offered them to Jesus if Jesus would betray God.
Jesus never said this world..this realm is not yours.
This world is Lucifer to run and his prison.
Why are we here?
Cause Adam and God made a deal.
Adam said he'll accept to stay here in this realm, as well as eve and all their descendants will stay for 5500 years.
Y? To prove to God that Adam and eve were sorry for eating the fruit.
So they must really show it.
We lost our spirituality.
Everything now is just a mockery to God.

>>735176698
We can't prove/disprove god. Its not possible at this point.

This theory strongly suggest a creator.

>>735176802
no scientific theory suggest a supenatural being

>>735177006
Parts of "string theory" suggest it.

>>735175723
well they belive in god so ofc its dumb

>>735177063
which ones?

>>735176463
uh m8
what gas
the gas came after the big bang
time, space, matter, existance are all properties of a unvierse.
without a universe, neither of those can exist.
the big bang is the start of the universe.
before the big bang, there wasnt any space for soemthing to exists in becasue there was nothing for space to exist in.
there wasn't a when either

>>735172799

I don't KNOW if god exist, but i doubt it, and if god exist it's not the man made god we think of

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8r-e2NDSTuE

>>735172799
"Something had to the energy in the universe"

You need to prove that. maybe energy is just infinite. Its kinda like the question "who created god" where Christians respond that he is infinite. Else we get into a god created a god created a god infinum...

>>735177097
How can sun burn in a vaccum?
No combustion can happen without oxygen...

>>735177185
5 secons in google, how are you this lazy
http://hyperphysics.phy-astr.gsu.edu/hbase/Tables/suncomp.html

>>735177126
I'm with you on that....sort of. I don't think man should of ever tried to name the creator. It was dumb to do so.

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when i watch this thread i rememberd that we are pretty stupid us humans

>>735177185
>sun
>combustion

>>735176463
yeah, i think you don't understand what the Big Bang is .. what it's definition is. You've misunderstood it. And that's ok. Look it up, and discover something amazing and new!

>>735177314
Exactly

>>735177089
I can't even pretend to understand that on a level where I could even try to explain it. I'd just fuck it up. Google it m8

>>735176715
>The universe is shrinking
umm, no?

>>735177331
What exactly about this thread makes you think so?

>>735172799
okay, look buddy.

if there are two explanations for the universe

and one is a detailed scientific model, deducted using mathematics, our understanding of physics and long-time observational study

and one is "invisible man in the sky did it"

shit, that's a difficult choice innit

>>735174761
mfw many cultures over history had sex with young girls. if you think outside of the box, anyone that says 'peodphile' is a fucking autist on so many levels. get real true sheep

inb4 youre a pedo. (remember now, youre an idiot)

>>735177185
it's not combustion. it's fusion. now go read about fusion

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>>735177309
And u truly believe this?
Are u sure they just have to make up some crap to go along?
Like oh it's a vaccum with no air.
How do suns burn than?
Oh well it has some oxygen in there already.
How do they even know what's in it?
How can we be sure that they really know it has all that shit in it?
NASA is slowly but surely getting rdy to show us the firmament >Pic related

>>735177539
Both are on shaking ground. Neither is infallible.

So, do you think life started in a mud puddle filled with saltwater and amino acids that was struck by lightning? Giving birth to the first single celled organisms that evolved in many different ways and eventually spawned humanity? Evolution is real, but how is it so diverse...if it came from one single origin.

>>735177775
it doesnt burn

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>>735177775
Look at this crap.
They got 19 billion this year
So let's see what we get soon

>>735177825
Yeah I know. It's just 3000 miles up and it's the greater light to rule the day.
Moon is the lesser light to rule the night.
Moon landing was fake as hell.
With the t.v. back than.U could fool anyone.
Not so easy today.
It's why we don't go to the moon. We could at least build a moon base but no
But they sure as shit rdy to mars and build there. Yeah right. We don't have any experience and the perfect spot first...is the fucking moon.

Its obvious that something created the universe but I do not believe in any god that the religions we have worship. I don't even think a creator would give a shit about being worshiped. Why does it matter anyway, religion isn't about proving whether or not something exists, it's about faith and having something to believe in. It doesn't matter if god is real or not.

>>735177913
>>735177775
Stop posting that pics like you've discovered something big. Everybody knows about junk in orbit.

>>735178169
Also to clarify what I mean by created, I mean just the start as in the Big Bang, I do not believe there was any further involvement

>>735178214
Shut the fuck up.
What junk? I don't see shit on any NASA live stream on utube.
No satellites anywhere. We should see all the millions satellites one way or another, but we don't.

>>735177803
see the mistake you're making is beleiving that evolution is actually anything resembling design or order.

it isnt. it's complete and utter chaos. random mutations after random mutations. it only looks liek there's design going on becasue all the mutations that don't benefit survival dont get to spread their genetic amterial by reproduction.a t least not as efficiently as the more useful mutations. so they slowly get replaced by those. rinse, repeat.

example: how did eyes start?
way back in the multicellular stage of life. by random chance, dna in random microbes got changed jsut enough to develop a photo-sensitive cell. those microbes now naturally moved deeper into the water, where there was less uv-radiation to damge their cells. they survived better than their "blind" little firends. and then it went on and on and on form there.

also yes, life probably did start ina mud puddle. you know that shit was recreated ina lab ages ago, right? it didnt create life. but it did create the building blocks for it. being amino acids.

we are not yet absolutely certain how it happened, but we got some prettysolid theories. theories based in evidence.
and any of those theories are fucking miles better than "magic ghost magicked it becasue fuck you thats why"

>>735178346
weak b8 m8
apply yourself

>>735172902
>causing massive draughts, floods, starvation
>throwing fire, storms and earthquakes
>wiping out whole nations

>getting angry because some .avi file
lel

>>735178330
Then as to your definition of created, it would be consistent with the physical universe we see today. But, it would be beyond the bounds of science to study such a creative force, as it has no further involvement. And you can believe in such a God, but would never be able to prove such a God with science, as it is not observable or quantifiable. And maybe that's ok!

>>735178435
Yeah meme ur way out.
How about pull ur head out of ur ass and think for urself.
Space junk. Jesus Christ...anon.
U just repeat what they say. Like a broken record.

>>735178619
>If I shill this stupidity enough maybe they'll believe it
Do you really have nothing better to do with your time than trying to make fools look even like a even bigger fools?

>>735178790
Don't fucking worry about it anon

>>735178428
Random chance.

No.

Not possible.

>>735179116
wow, you're throwing them intellectual rebuttals today, aren't you

>>735172799
God bless, Adam and eve not Adam and Steve.

>>735179246
Lets keep it super simple.

Sharks have existed in their current form since before the dinosaurs went extinct. There hasn't been much "evolving" since then. They are always hungry and if they stop swimming, the drown. Shouldn't they evolve to end both of those shortcomings?

Birds eat worms. Worms font have a evolutionary urge to end that?

Nah, we are all pieces of the same puzzle. We have our niche. We do not evolve beyond that niche.

>>735179270
Another evolutionary dead end. Homosexuality is preprogramed. There are genetic switches that determine sexual orientation. Being a fag serves no purpose and wouldn't be included in a animal who seeks to survive. The ability to be gay destroys natural selection.

>>735179500
sharks are an apex predator. they are already perfectly adapted to their environment. their biology circumvents their shortcomings already. their physique and method of sleeping are the coutners to the need to move. there is no furhter benefit in more changes.
besides, they did evolve since the dinosaurs. they became much, much smaller. go look up megalodon.

worms outbreed getting eaten and it works perfectly fine.

also i beleive you severely misjudge the timeframe in which fundamental changes in biology happen

>>735179500
Sharks are perfect killing machines, they haven't evelved in millions of years because they don't need to

>>735179670
actually it'S been observed in animals plenty of times. sure, those don't reproduce, but it still happens here and there

>>735179936
Well I spelled a word wrong I guess I should just go die. The guy above me said it better anyway

>>735172799
Makes me question
If the universe is exponentially expanding, does the existence of dark energy and dark matter break the first law of thermodynamics?

>>735179500
also, did you know there are sharks with active gills? just wondering

>>735179500
>Shouldn't they evolve to end both of those shortcomings?
That is NOT what evolution is. There is an available ecological niche for the animal known as a shark, so sharks will happily keep being sharks, and keep up a healthy population, and keep surviving.

But that is not to say that another species might be evolved from sharks, and live and thrive in an available niche. But you will still see sharks around. They don't go away.

Just because humans evolved and exist, doesn't mean that all ancestor species, genus, etc disappeared.

>>735180246
i just re-read your comment, and I think this is exactly what you were arguing. >.< doh!

>>735180177
thsoe are seen as the reason the universe expands. there'S also some really weird movement in a big part of the observable sky going down that points towards an unknown superheavy source of gravity. we don't understand it yet.
look up the "great attractor"

>>735180359
naw man, he's coutner-arguing that evolution is chaos. thing is, it is. it's regulated by outside factors that are beneficial or detrimental to survival.

thing is sharks couldn't get better ad hunting prey, no matter what mutation they would suffer. the only change could be backwards, with sharks being born that suck at killing. but those die off anyway and the proficient ones keep doing their thing.

i mean sure, there could be mutations going on that go into the stornger direction, but they ran out of advantages to have, so those aren't noticed.

there might be observable change. ina nother million years or so. or adaptation to the icnreasignly acidic ocean. but for now, there'S no effect to be had

>>735172799
if a perfectly equal, perfectly opposite parallel universe started when ours started, the total ammount of antimatter, matter, and energy would be zero. an infinite ammount of time in our 3D universe could ammount to an infinitely small ammount of time in the greater 4D multiverse as well so from that macro-perspective our universe existed for no ammount of time and was simply a 3D possibility that had to occur within the 4D mesh of the multiverse. i believe our universe to be a quantum blip in another dimension.

>>735172799
I am an atheist, yet contemplate this :
I can see where your logic is coming from, and from this and your other replies that you believe in God, but not what the Bible says of him, which is understandable on many spectrums, and is a very valid opinion.
However when you consider we do not know how the universe actually started (we know OF the big bang, nothing else), your deduction that one or many gods are the first drive of energy is just as likely as any other opinion.
Once I thought about it a bit more, your reasoning could altogether alter what we consider a "god": is it even sentient, material, if it even exists.
In that aspect, I believe in a "god", or rather an original driving force that started the big bang, and even if this is just an energetic combustion of some type, it still created the universe as we know it.
Congrats, normally I need to be high to come to a conclusion like this...

>>735180932
But, you could go a step further. There is no need for a God to be the driving force. Just claim the Universe itself is the prime mover. That such is part of its properties. So there is no need for a title of "God", just "Universe" will do.

>>735180707
Show me a sheep giving birth to a mutated meat eating sheep. Evolution happens in leaps and bounds. Show me a leap.

>>735182317
The universe can't create energy or matter. It had to come from outside of here.

>>735182317
Yeah, you are right, but fits in less with what op posted

>>735177441
just some people on this thread, not pople that make arguments etc

we humans fight over the most stupid shit

>>735182553
No no, once you say that there is a prime mover, then that prime mover can be the Universe itself. No need to resort to an outside "god". I mean, you can if you have some other motivation to do so, but it is perfectly valid and reasonable to stop right there at "Universe".

>>735182574
The idea is that the energy for the Universe was always there, and then the Big Bang happened, and all that energy-matter is still constant.

If one insists that there must be a prime mover, then that principle must also stand for the concept of God. God must have something that created him. And if one says, no, God does not need a prime mover, then that principle, that something can exist without a prime mover, can be applied to the Universe itself.

Thus, the Universe, in principle, does not need to have a God to have the energy and existence it has.

None of this in any way disproves the existence of God; it only disproves the necessity of God for the Universe to exist under the "prime mover" thesis.

>>735172799
Turtles all the way down!! Deal with it...

>>735172799
And what was there before gods ?
What are gods made of?

Any answer is absurd, and violates Occam's Razor.

QED you are a desperate moron, faggot.

>>735172799
So god is just the fattest creature in existence. Now it makes sense that Americans consider themselves as God's own fucking country.

>>735183668
The creator wouldn't be from this universe. It would exist outside of the realm of time. It would have transferred the energy here because energy cannot be created here.

It's a pretty simple concept

>>735174313
This. I have these same views and it scares me. I hope some day i can extend my life, atleast just for alittle longer...

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>>735183843
God's word is law.

Daily reminder that if solid evidence or reasoning for a god was known, that evidence or reasoning would be common knowledge and atheists would be the equivalent of flat-earthers in debates.

That is not the case, therefore solid evidence or reasoning for a god is not known. The idea that someone on an anonymous image board is going to come up with something that philosophers and theologians haven't managed to come up with throughout all of history is laughable.

>>735183843
Ahhh, you're one of those assholes. Well, sorry, but the Jews have already laid claim as to being gods chosen people.

I'm not a theological scholar. I'm not even suggesting a name for god. I simply call him the creator.

>>735183906
Transferring energy would require time to exist.

Hint: it's not a simple concept.

>>735184196
This lends credence to my theory that the creator doesn't give a fuck about us. It isn't something the creator worries about. Believing or not, cannot be a concern. That is what omnipotence truly is.

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>>735184197
>theoLOGical

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>>735184132
Haruhi isn't God. Pic related.

>>735184284
Not simple to us, that is for sure. Simple to an inter-dimensional being? Maybe.

>>735183906
False assumption. Once you have the principle that energy can exist and can come from somewhere, there is no reason to say the energy cannot be an inherent property of the Universe.

If you claim that energy has to come from somewhere outside, then you must claim, on principle, that the energy outside must come from somewhere further "outside" even that. And there's no end.

No more turtles!
I'm old. Ask Mr. Owl.

>>735184492
All you need to do is show that an "inter-dimensional" being can exist, can do what you claim it can do, and then go about finding a way to determine whether or not that is actually the case.

Simply saying "being beyond our understanding does things beyond our understanding" is not sufficient.

We are living in an egg of sorts. To the inanimate egg, the sperm I'd a creature on a higher dimensional plane. After all, the sperm has life and the egg doesn't. Once that sperm breaches the egg, it transfers life, energy, and material into it. Sparks literally fly. The egg then changes entirely. It harbors that energy and life injected into it.

This is a clumsy metaphor, but as close as I can get it. O wish I had the educational background to formulate this theory better.but, this is about the best I can do.

>>735172799
ok then...how do you explain giraffes??

>>735184415
Considering that a non-existent creator wouldn't give a fuck about us by definition, sure.

>>735184026
False hope in the ego, you deserve your own fear

>>735184818
>This is a clumsy metaphor
To the point where it is worthless.

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>>735184438
Repent, blasphemer!

>>735184709
Mr. Owl....

That doesn't compute. You are claiming to understand universes and dimensions we cannot possibly fathom. Your arrogance betrays you.

>>735184900
Are you sure? It has some logic.

Don't be offended. Be enlightened.

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>>735172799

Atheists have a tiny mind and an even tinier (albeit flaccid and saggy) penis

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>>735184944
Reject the false religion, embrace the truth that is revealed by a careful reading of the scriptures.

>uses science to create an argument
>proceeds to tell us the science is wrong
>that is the proof

grade A proof

>>735185051
>it has some logic
Not really, no. Using metaphors is inherently problematic, and the further away you get from the actual subject being discussed, the less useful they are.
>Be enlightened.
I'll be enlightened when you tell me something that is capable of doing so.

>>735185150
They are victims of their own arrogance and their narcissistic ways. It is vain to think that we are the most intelligent things in the universe, especially considering they think we evolved from apes.

We are but children with an infantile understanding of maths and sciences that do little to disprove intelligent design and way more to prove his existence.

>>735185453
>it's arrogant to realize we don't have all the answers
k
>It is vain to not think we were created in the image of an all-powerful being
k
>proving or disproving something that isn't falsifiable
k

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>>735185178
Penalty!

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>>735172799

> That "something" is our God.

Mere assertion. Thinking this is a rational argument is stupid.

Enjoy your fail.