There is literally no justifiable reason to consume animal products.

k

>>734257479

No I can't.

The only argument that carnivores have is ad hominem, so they can be written off intellectually right away.

>>734257479
It tastes better

/thread

>>734257822

Not an argument

>>734257707
Even if you vegans and vegitarians win, humans will never stop slaughtering animals and consuming their flesh. Your lifestyle is mostly carried out by me-too goobers who need a niche to lock into to be slightly less boring or way more condescending. Much like homophobes still harass gays, you constantly harass meat eaters for their choice they were born to crave and enjoy without hurting vegans or vegetarians.

>>734257876
It is if you disagree

Proof is not needed. I like meat. Fuck off. You don't have to eat it.

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>>734257822
Dubs confirms why we should eat animals

>>734257707
>>734257479
Vegan losers, eventually you will eat meat again to prevent the degenerative brain damage and other unhealthy side-effects.

>>734258008

No you are incorrect. Not an argument. Make a smart argument or go away.

>>734258002

Not an argument.

>>734257479
If we wouldn't have consumed animal products as we evolved, we would have never managed to develop brains big enough to conceive advanced concepts like agriculture.

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op you are right

>>734257822
Done

>>734257479
Their tortured soul feeds my sadistic hunger.

Also, give me a justifiable reason for you to continue your existence. You can't and shouldn't have to.

>>734257479
I have an auto immune disease that harshly decrease my nutrient absorption.
I can hardly get enough vitamins and minerals out of the vegetables I eat, let alone protein.
I have to eat meat just to get close to my protein needs.

>>734258051

Ad hominem (also false information) thanks for proving my point, caveman.

>>734257479
I like to consume animal products, so I do.

/thread.

> I need you to prove to me why you eat meat
>Please just confront me with the fact that I'm saving the planet and your not

>>734258086
>advanced concept
You got to feed the retard population some how while the top 1% have their meat.

>>734258073
You seem to be disagreeing... sounds like... an argument maybe?

>>734257479
Killing plants is still murder!So if you do it anyways why not do it big?

>>734257876
it's okay to be wrong you don't need to get upset about it, maybe if you had some more protein in your diet you'd be better able to handle these mood swings dear :^)

>>734258073
So what is an argument for you? One you can win? Because you're deflecting anything that YOU can't disprove, fuck face.

>>734258194
Fags these days

>>734258145
No need to prove anything, also not false information. You people will realize it some day. Enjoy your mental issues.

>>734258211

No you don't know what words mean

>>734258222

Irrelevant post. To be ignored.

I'd rather eat steak than tofu and bird seed thanks

>>734258086
Not entirely true anon, fire made more of an impact on that than meat did.
Cooking our food enabled us to free more easily digested calories in all of the foods we ate.

>>734258222
nice trips

>>734258270

An argument is when you make a counter without logical fallacies while adding to the conversation. You didn't do that. Try to do that instead.

>>734258318

Fals information. Ad hominem. Irrelevant.

>Please fucking Christ argue with me over your personal choice
>Validate your consumption with me. Prove to me there's a good reason why you don't become enlightened like I am.
Get off your fucking high horse cunt

>>734258212
Yeah stop killing plants you fucking eco terrorist... I need those to breath and my food beasts need it to eat... stop eating my foods food and catch up on the food chain yuh slacker

>>734257479
not everyone can afford a vegan lifestyle. theres no way the entire world can be entirely fed by plant products alone. its unsustainable

>>734257479
I want to
And I was born into a world where I am physically able to and enjoy consuming animals, and there is no law or force of nature preventing me to, thus I will. There's my justification

>>734257479
There is no justifiable reason to not consume animal products. The burden of proof is on you, mate. and "Meat is Murder" isn't a valid excuse. plants and fungi are just as alive as animals

>>734258002
Win what?

Producing meat takes a lot of energy and produces a lot of waste. We can't sustain growth in a very limited world, it's impossible. Once all other options of manipulating the production process are exhausted, it'll either be vegan or death. Why not join the vegan brotherhood today and get ahead of everyone else?

>>734258329
Stop arguing with me

>>734258165
DO NOT IGNORE MY POST BECAUSE YOU HAVE NO GOOD RESPONSE OP

>>734258449
Vegans are delusional. /thread

Try better bait next time, retard.

>>734258503
by that logic we should stop manufacturing plastic
or even mining oil
guess what
it's not going to happen

>>734258598

Ad hominem

Irrelevant

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>>734257479
>>734257479
Justify : show or prove to be right or reasonable.

My question is to whome is rating the justification. In one persons eyes it would seem justified for various reasons and in anothers eyes could seem unreasonable.

Long live liberty!

>>734257479
depends. if you just want to lead an average life, your eating habits dont matter too much. if you get into bodybuilding, you will need protein from meats to build muscle.

>inb4 you can get protein from tofu, soy, lentils, etc.

true, but not in the same amount as you would with meats.

>>734257479
To irritate you. That's my only reason

>>734257479
>don't be speciesist
>it's okay for a lion to eat meat but you can't because you're human
derp

>>734258690
Also soy cause your body to produce more estrogen.

>>734257479
If animals didnt want to be eaten then why are they made of food?

>>734258073
>No you are incorrect.
not an argument

>>734257479

As long as you dont constantly suck down meat you will be fine and all these condescending vegans should go try and be self sustaining for a while away from other people and see what that's like. Our species was built on hunter gatherer mentality. It's how our species came to exist and if you think hunter gatherers were eating almonds and salads you're a damn moron. Vegans think they're smart but it's all completely gone over their head.

>>734258503
animals provide more concentrated nutrition than plants, thus provide more calories. they take up much less space and are much hardier in different climates. we can't even grow fucking cocoa beans outside of specific areas, what makes you think we can support an entire world's demand for all your favorite veggies?

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>>734258720
Yeah I'm gunna go kill a rabbit and eat it now just because op is a faggot


>see what you veggitablealiens are doing!?!??!!!!!

>>734258086
There's literally no point in saying this, it's just a meaningless fact that isn't an argument against veganism. Should we also bring slavery back since it helped progress society?

>>734257479
Animals are fucking tasty.......

>Op , you are an animal too..... Imma fuckin cook you up faggot

>>734258449
Is this >>734258129 reason too legit for you to reply to?

>>734258092
he looks so sad.. even the grill looks sad.

that shits just sad.

Okay, serious mode on:
Let's presume no reasonable justification can be given, call this hypothesis A

What does A entail?
Is having no reasonable justification for an action enough to discourage the action?

>>734258829

Not correct usage.

My food eats your food. Stop eating my food's food.

>>734258503
you must not farm... do you know how many resources are going into growing crops?

>>734258829
lol I know, he's just a big gay carrot fucker

>>734258145
>caveman
.. ad hominem, you lose.

>>734258932
>implying slavery ever went away
we just gave it extra steps

>>734258165
I like to rape babies so I do. Would that hold up in a court?

>>734258449
But hey, meat eaters win! This world is ours, we build delicious industries of death and we love it. You say we need an argument to be aprex predators.. don't you realize we already are? The world is ours, so why should we argue with a petty being like you to justify our ecistance? You can debate everyone who ever lived it won't change a damn thing! I'm off to have a delicious burger hmmm:) have fun

>>734257479
vitamin B12

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There's also no justifiable reason to masturbate, other than "it feels good" or "I like it", yet here we are.

>>734257479
cow eats grass and grows = cow is a plant

>>734258771
THIS. Soy milk made me grow titties

>>734258637
Mining - metals and minerals can be harvested off planet
Plastics - biological, can be made from plants

We can't migrate from planet to planet because we haven't adapted to interplanetary travel yet. Plus everyone loves this planet, so why not save it

>>734258956
Nope

>America

>>734258947

That's legit absolutely.

But it's why gluten free food is a niche market. It's okay as long as you absolutely need it. Solid argument, but it doesn't cover all bases because those kinds of people are a minority. Meat should be available for those people. Absolutely.

>>734258449
>An argument is when you make a counter without logical fallacies while adding to the conversation. You didn't do that. Try to do that instead.
I can smell your fedora through the screen, bruh.

>>734259015

Red herring. Irrelevant

>>734259028
kek who brought "court" into a logic argument

you can't even logic. I have beaten you at your own game retard OP

>>734259137

Ad hominem

Irrelevant

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>>734259083
pics? jk
my feels go for you, anon

>>734257479
>You can't prove me wrong either.
They taste good.
/thread

eat meat = big brain

>>734259126
>these rich people can do this lifestyle, so that means everyone else can too

There is literally no justifiable reason to consume plant products. You can't prove me wrong either.

>>734258746
ARGUE THIS OP YOU ENDLESS BRAIN FART

>>734258956
/thread

>removing a whole food category
no. plus it tastes good u vegan cuck

>>734257479
It tastes good, and is a good source of protein. Yes you can get protein from other sources, But you have to eat a lot more of that source to get the same amount or protein.
Overall it just tastes good.

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>Can you name one trait in animals, that if present in humans would ethically and morally justify killing and eating them?
Nobody in this thread will reply to this question because deep down, they all know they're in the wrong.

>>734259015
Kek

>>734257479
>There is literally no justifiable reason to consume animal products.

Tastes good
Good protein

There, 2 trivial reasons to eat animals

>>734259029

Not an argument. Anti-intellectual and happy with it. Worryingly stupid.

>>734259368
Lack of sentience

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>>734257479
god damn
life is good

>>734259129
Then couldn't we agree on a happy medium and work together on stopping factory farms and have meat eaters cough up the extra cash it takes to get free range meat and eggs?
Meat consumption would go down, because it costs more and animal suffering would also sharply fall.

>>734257479
When I don't eat meat for more than a couple days I feel like shit and literally have difficulty waking up.

If I was richer I would eat a grain free, 100% grass fed, free range animal meat diet, supplemented with fish, and fruits.

>>734257479
being allergic to treenuts, peanuts and beans.

you cant find any other reliable source of protein.

Meat and animal product provides nutrients that are more readily absorbed into our systems. It's more efficient. Some nutrients can't be had from plants.

Also vegans are faggots, which is unnatural.

>>734257479
I eat 240 grams of protien 400 or so grams of carbs and 80 or so fat everyday. It would be very expensive and unhealthy to get from plant based diet.i doubt id be able to get my ratios correct and my diet wouldnt be very balanced. Beans for instance have maybe 20 grams of protien and 60 grams of carbs per 100 grams.

Also id be shitting and farting like a mad man with all the fucking fiber od be consuming. Stomache pains would be really bad. Also beans and soy raise estrogen. So me being a man dont want a diet based around the female hormone. Sorry.

>>734258746
Lions have no moral agency and they kill out of necessity. Humans kill out of greed. Are you implying that we should do everything Lions do?

>>734259083
Sure it wasn't your high energy diet?

>>734258092
That is one rough-looking 22 year old.

>>734259368
No, nobody in this thread will reply to the question because it's totally irrelevant.

>>734257479
>there is literally no justifiable reason to consume animal products. You cant prove me wrong either.
Aside from butt-hurt and feelings, There is literally no justifiable reason to consume plant products only. You can't prove me wrong either.

>>734259118
Well, what's the point of asserting there is no reasonable justification for meat eating if nothing of relevance can be determined as for what we Should do? It's just a vegan sucking cucumbers
>inb4 ad hominen, it's not.

>>734258496
Plants aren't sentient, they don't feel pain, and they have no consciousness. Animals can.

>>734259333
>proteins removed from food pyramid
Fuck off you nigger
Protein comes from a lot of foods

Meat has always been apart of the human diet. Why are we changing it?

>>734257479
nigga who gives a fuck
I would brutally murder a cow myself for a steak
your only argument is from an environmental standpoint but that's the same as saying don't drive because it pollutes the air
not my fault, blame the farmers

>>734258860

Also, have any of you vegans ever tried to build up adequate muscle mass or do you just take pride in your <17 BMI? If you've ever tried a vegan diet, 90% of them include several soy meals a day, and over 90% of soy shit is GMO, having various side effects that science is too sparse to be definitive on. As well as isoflavones in soy which is an estrogen producer. So have fun with your breast cancer and effeminate physique, i'll eat the occasional chicken breast and be superior to your disgusting faggotry.

>>734259632
tell that to the lions and bears.

>>734258960
>Not correct usage
argue why it's not correct usage, simply stating something is not an argument.

>>734259494
No one cares about animal suffering. If any significant number of people cared, it would be an issue. It's not. Find a better cause.

>>734259303
There's literally no justifiable reason to live in a body anymore. You can't prove me wrong either.

>>734259628
Keep on sucking

More meat for me

>>734259484
Fuck yeah

>>734259689
fuck off GMOs are safe, soy does have xenoestrogens in it but that's not related to GMOs

>>734259368
Quit acting like nature has some sort of principle. After all the extinction events, all the death and all the life, you assume there is some sort of cosmic morality.

Well there isn't, horrible people live like kings while the righteous die from preventable disease. There is no justification or reason, things just are the way they are. I am human, I can kill most animals because I am smarter than them and they don't know how to be aware like I am. I can whatever I want, and just because you think it's wrong and it hurts your feefees doesn't mean I need a justification.

>>734259126
I think Woody Harrelson is the only vegan there, the others started eating meat again. Maybe Tyson still is too, I'm not sure.

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Daily reminder that there is no fundamental moral difference between eating plants and eating animals.

Killing animals is only ever wrong in the same way that driving a car that isn't fuel efficient is wrong.

>>734259632
None of which matters.

>>734259029
Meat eaters don't win. You have the planet, but your foundation is unstable. The fall will be a glorious one.

>>734259368
cannibalism is more likely to lead to disease in most cases. human meat is more likely to have parasites that can both survive cooking and thrive in a human body. there's also a large worry of prions, since those definitely can't be cooked away. there's a reason the myth of the Wendigo was created, it's partially based on truth

>>734259603
scurvy

>>734257479
There is literally no justifiable reason for you to be alive
>so stop it

>>734259508
Pus and blood in your milk... is more readily ABSORBED?

If you want to be vegan. Its your choice.

If i want to eat meat. Its my choice.

Anyone forcing people to eat a certain way are simply tyrannical.

>>734259513
>Lions have no moral agency and they kill out of necessity. Humans kill out of greed
this is quite speciesist, you expect a higher moral of humans than you lions and deny that lions even have one. You sound exactly like the guys back in the day when they argued for segregation between blacks and whites.
>Are you implying that we should do everything Lions do?
no, of course I'm not, I don't imply we should grow fur either. Are you implying vegans should do everything cows do, because cows live plant based? Strawman arguing, stop it.

If grocery stores weren't a thing, all the vegans would die off

>>734259733
I'm trying to get the vegan to accede to let people eat meat if they help champion the abolition of factory farms.
That would be a step forward in this pro versus anti meat eating virtue signaling circus.

>>734259665
Go on, 1v1 a cow

>>734257479
Bacon.

>>734259510
Your body produces testosterone in response to estrogen. Same way body builders grow tits from taking testosterone boosters (due to estrogen).

>>734259689
>repeats a few scientific sounding words to make it sound like his bullshit is true
lol.

>>734257479
>There is literally no justifiable reason to consume animal products.

Humans are omnivores. We were made to eat other animals.

>>734260099
chekd

>>734259483
https://www.psychologytoday.com/blog/animal-emotions/201306/universal-declaration-animal-sentience-no-pretending
>>734259560
It us completely relevant
>>734259786
You didn't make one single valid argument in that entire post

>>734257479
OP is cute, he hasn't addressed my point:
>>734258956

>>734259152
argue why you consider getting called for name-calling (ad hominem) a red herring, simply stating something is not an argument.

>>734259883
Explain why.

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Delicious

>>734259970
Majority of foodborne illness caused by green vegetables.

Stay safe, eat meat

>>734260099
/thread

>>734259985
Tell that to the prison system and hospitals/schools with set menus
Vegan snowflakes are ignored and forced to eat real food

>>734259970
Yes. Ever heard of a cell wall? It makes plant cells harder to break down. Now stop being a fag

>>734259494
not anon
A lot of assumptions there, bud. We get as much free range and non-hormone/antibiotic as we can and it's only like %5 more in cost, but twice as delicious.

You lifestyle choice is just that, a choice. STFU and go hang out with the pilates, gluten-free, goat yoga, bicyclists, and any other group that needs to talk about themselves and their uniqueness every 13 seconds. No one cares. At all.

>>734258474
lmfao what a stupid thing to say. It's somehow cheaper to grow corn and soybeans to feed to livestock to subsequently be eaten than it would be to simply eat the corn and soybeans....?

>>734260167
>It us completely relevant
How?

>>734259513
Not all people kill for greed, as we are all individuals. Not all dogs bark, not all birds sing. Not all lions kill out of necessity. Nice stereotype, it'd help your argument but it's false.

>>734257479

because i like to. that's the only justification i need.

you don't like to eat meat? O.K.

have fun being you.

>>734259028
reductio ad absurdum, not an argument.

>>734258774
Fucking..... kekd

>>734260223
Cheers m8

>>734260203
Morality isn't based on consciousness.

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>>734260228
my face of concern for them

>>734260080
cows evolved to eat plant products only... their body is disgned to grow with only those nutrients. Humans are omnivore, and thus grow from nutrients provided by both meat and plants. telling that anon to 1v1 a cow is redundant, thats like telling vegans to grow/harvest everything with no tools.

>>734259181
fedora, irrelevant.

>>734260080
you think I couldn't handle it?
I'd slit Bessie's throat before she could say "moo"

>>734260251
Meant for
>>734259129
... I think.

>>734259632
just because they have different distress mechanisms than most animals, doesn't mean they lack pain/suffering/sentience. we already know they have complex communication with each other. some release hormones to attract predators of whatever is attacking/eating them. some actually loan out water/nutrients to other nearby plants in hard times. you'd be surprised how complex plants are.

>>734260223
/thread

Think we have a winner

>>734258956
OP here
>Is having no reasonable justification for an action enough to discourage the action?
Yes, because that action has negative repercussions.

>>734258690
Vegan here and I OHP 135 freedom units for reps. You're just making excuses. It's very feasible to do without meat

>>734259660
My uncle has always molested me. And YOU'RE telling ME it's wrong?

>>734260291
Mate, Reduction ad absurdum Is an argument! Are you an intuitionist?

>>734260251
Well I am kind of advocating for people eating this twice as delicious meat anon, I love that stuff myself. If it only costs 5% more, that's only a plus, I wouldn't mind paying 5% more for better meat.

Lmao ur dumb
They taste good

>>734260432
>135

Wow you must be a real boss

>>734259368
>the vegan's side is so shitty they have to mine their way to the carnivore side

>>734260455
>Reduction ad absurdum Is an argument!
oh right, but then.. what's next? A foot in the jaw is an argument too, then?

.. think before you answer.

>>734259700
Lions and bears don't pollute the world.

>>734259786
>I can kill most animals
Name one animal you killed.
To eat them you usually let someone else kill them for you. Anyone could say they could do it.

My justification is I like the taste, so fuck you!

>>734260413
Posting on 4chan has negative repercussions. You should stop.

>>734260266
because humans expect higher quality food than cows and other farm animals that would be pretty happy eating just grass you retard.

>>734257479
Because its as natural as shitting?

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>>734259117
The fuck? Off planet? Only some plastics can be made from plants. How do you do that though? Diesel-powered machines.

Save the planet? What's wrong with it. You realize that it's been cooling off for thousands of years? Did you know that carbon is not a pollutant? All this mining... just moving elements around. Nothing is destroyed.

>>734260390
doesn't mean they lack pain/suffering/sentience
There's no evidence to support this though. Just because they can respond to stimuli doesn't mean that they have full blown sentience. Plants don't have a central nervous system, so they cannot feel pain.

>>734260390
not the guy you're replying to, but there's a clear and obvious moral difference between eating a mushroom and torturing an animal. Pretending there isn't is flat out delusional and you know it. You're just being ridiculous so you don't have to confront uncomfortable realities about your choices.

>>734259484
I'm salivating like Pavlov's dog over here.

>>734260618
yea they do, they fart and do diarrhea like the rest of us.

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>>734257822
/thread

>>734260731
>there's a clear and obvious moral difference between eating a mushroom and torturing an animal.
What is it?

Remember, arbitrary qualifiers are meaningless.

What if you're in a society that can't maintain agriculture and plant food is sparse?

>>734260266
yup, because as humans we cant survive just off of soy and corn, we need a vast assortment of plant products. the acreage to grow all those different types of plants(assuming they can all be grown in that region) would be greatly larger than that to feed livestock. Now im not saying we should increase our meat intake,which should actually be decreased, as cattle take lots of water to raise.
my point being it takes a lot more land to grow plant food for people to consume as the amount of calories is significantly less than meat.

>>734260638
How does this expectation justify eating meat exactly? And you haven't addressed the point of the massive loss of efficiency in raising edible plants that many human beings would literally kill for, only to feed them to an animal so that a richer human can then eat the animal.

>>734260167
My argument is that I don't need one! It's that simple :) Does the sun need an argument to rise? Does the rain need an argument to fall? Do plants need an argument to produce oxygen? Does 2 + 2 need an argument to be 4? I guess I'm a murderer animal slaughterer of pure evil if that's what you want to call me, but just because you got ugly names and hurt feelings doesn't invalidate my Existence. As long as I exist I'll keep eating animals, it's because I exist that I consume. If you want to argue about why life exists then I got nothing to say because I have no clue.

>>734260731
If the animal is dead, eating it wouldn't be torture though. If the farmers were obligated to give their animals the best conditions, suffering would be low.

>>734257479
Our bodies were designed to be omnivorous and it's the easiest and most effective way to have a balanced diet

Well I really don't need to argue, maybe if toy stopped waving your half centimeter vegan clitoris around you wouldn't need to feel a self-righteous attempt like this was really reasonable.

What philosophical grounds do you have for assuming that life is valuable?

>>734260884
You're just intellectualizing to avoid confronting a difficult ethical dilemma. Nobody needs the difference between shoveldog.gif and mowing the grass explained to them in any detail.

My large, developed, and unique frontal lobe and thalamus says otherwise

>>734260631
False equivalency. Eating animal products harms you and the animals that you are eating while providing no benefits. Posting on 4chan may have negative repercussions, but it only affects me. Meanwhile, I have the ability to inform people of the impacts of their actions, so the outcome is a positive benefit.

>>734261008
Correction
>you

>>734257479
Say you were stranded on an island, you're starving. The only thing you can find is a bovine off in the distance. Your natural instincts will tell you to go kill that fucking cow and cook it over a fire.

In nature animals eat other animals...this is how we evolved. You fucking pleb.

>>734260902
Fucking retard the reason you eat meat is to hilariously attempt to make up for your penile shortcoming you god damn shit eating retard eat shit and die

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>>734257479

a true vegan doesn't use insulin, water filters, insulation, rubber, antifreeze, certain plastics, floor waxes, crayons, chalk, adhesives, shaving creams, soaps, make-up, wax paper, margarine, paints, lubricants, candles, shampoos, tape, brushes and other products made with leftovers of slaughtered animals.

>>734260900
Much of what you've just claimed it flat out incorrect. I suggest you research the issue more.

>>734260266
Yep. Different grains. We can't eat what they can, who's going to produce inedible grains if there aren't any cows to eat them?

>>734257479
No life has inherent value. Embrace nihilism

>>734257479
Vegatarians are just trolls they like to eat too, the only difference is they HIDE their buckets of chicken

>>734260719
if having a central nervous system is your definition of sentience, then most animals don't have it either. you ever consider that there are other distress mechanisms than just a central nervous system?

>>734261153
also jello

>>734257479
>There is literally no justifiable reason to...

I can use that sentence to slay like 80% of the human race and commit other acts that some consider unethical. Go back to tumblr with your pseudo-philosophy for faggots.

>>734260581
So obviously you don't know what OHP even is so get the fuck off of my board you dyel numale faggot.

>>734261057
this, we only became human because we could cook and eat meat

>>734261214

we gots to have the jello.

>>734258008
Kek

>>734261130
>>734261130
I don't eat meat, so you just insulted yourself...?

>>734260621
I could, I mean. I have a finger and an arm and sight. I could get a gun. I don't kill them, but for you to argue that I can't is stupid. There is no other animal with self awareness the way humans have it

>>734261068
>Eating animal products harms you
no it doesn't.

>>734260731
wew let's go on a vegan guilt trip everyone

>>734261056
>avoid confronting a difficult ethical dilemma.
I've already confronted it. They're morally equivalent.
>Nobody needs the difference between shoveldog.gif and mowing the grass explained to them in any detail.
I do.

>>734260902
>how does this expectation justify eating meat exactly?
we dont have to eat the poor-quality corn and other crap meant for livestock, so we dont. why would anyone? are you autistic? the statement wasnt justifying eating meat, because that doesnt have to be justified you retard

>>734257479
Give thanks that we are civilized and we have laws, otherwise I would kill you and I would eat you

>>734257479
I want to.

Case closed.

>>734261204
>having a central nervous system is your definition of sentience
I never said that and I never implied it.

>>734261175
Then that land could be repurposed for foods humans can consume, decreasing the scourge of hunger on human society. Although AFAIK farm animals do in fact eat corn and soybeans which, essentially, humans could eat instead.

>>734261068
Yeah, my question is:
Why should we care about animals? Or even other people, in a general sense.

Even presuming no objective benefits, we meat eaters Enjoy our meals. You presume there is an objective morality in attempting to decrease the overall suffering, the burden of proof is on you.

Some vegans claim that humans are naturally herbivores and that our bodies are not adapted to eating animals.

This is completely false. Humans and pre-humans have been eating meat for millions of years.

Our bodies are well adapted to meat consumption and we are perfectly capable of making full use of the nutrients found in meat.

In fact, our digestive systems don’t resemble those of herbivores at all.

We have short colons, long small intestines and plenty of hydrochloric acid in the stomach to help break down animal protein.

Also, the lengths of different parts of our digestive systems are somewhere in between the lengths typical for carnivores and herbivores, indicating that we are naturally “designed” to be omnivores.

The fact that vegans can’t function without B12 supplements or B12 supplemental foods is also a pretty strong argument for these diets not being “natural.”

Studies suggest that our consumption of animal foods helped drive the evolution of our large brains.

Also, hunter-gatherers ate lots of meat. Our genes were shaped in an environment that included plenty of animal products.

The truth is… humans function best eating both animals and plants. Period.

Bottom Line: Humans are naturally omnivores and function best eating a combination of animals and plants. This is reflected in the anatomy of our digestive system.

>>734261374
You're literally committing a "false equivalency" fallacy. Like a textbook example of one.

>>734261068
>but it only affects me
No, the resources you are wasting by posting on 4chan affects everyone.
>Meanwhile, I have the ability to inform people of the impacts of their actions, so the outcome is a positive benefit
Eating meat makes me feel happier and gives me the energy to go out and help people, so the outcome is a positive benefit.

>>734261515
How so?

>>734258002
Oh damn. Nice reply

>>734261486
mike drop motherfucker

>>734261068
No one wants your false information you fucking cuck

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>>734257479
Because I fucking like eating them. No one needs to justify anything to a limo wristed faggot like you.

>>734261122
Say I kidnapped your closest friend and threatened to kill them unless you quit eating animal products. You probably would

>>734261122
OP would probably rather fuck it and then starve to death

>>734259484
It looks undercooked. My guess is they didn't allow it to sit for a couple of minutes after grilling.

>>734261130
>i eat food to compensate for my fragile ego and give me a false sense of superiority


sounds like veganism to me

>>734261486
cooking meat allowed early hominids to dedicate less energy to digestion and more to thinking so eating cooked meat essentially made us human

>>734261460
>Why should we care about animals? Or even other people, in a general sense
I can't really tell you how you should or shouldn't feel. If you don't give a fuck then you just don't, nothing I can do about it. That doesn't change the fact that needlessly killing purely for pleasure is by definition a morally reprehensible action.

>>734261743
Looks perfect to me.

>>734262017
do you enjoy eating vegetables? if you do, you're killing purely for pleasure right?

>>734261156
>need about 2 acres to feed one person
>need about 2 acres for one cow
>two acres of land for plants will feed one person for a year.
>two acres of land to raise one cattle will feed a person for over 1000 days with about 8-10oz of meat daily

>>734262017
Is it okay to kill things for your own survival?

>>734260617
I don't understand tf you're saying.
it'd be a false equivalence fallacy, that and the dumb fucking idea that a court of law is the same as a logical discussion

>>734262017
>morally reprehensible
Fuck morals, they mean jack shit.

>>734260167
Well, that is interesting and after reading it.... I guess I'll just eat stupid animals, like op

>>734262068
Oh yeah, it looks delicious and I would totally eat it. But look at the bottom of the steak. It's all pink up to the centre, when only the centre should look like that.

>>734262177
>it's 2017 in america
>still making arguments based off a hypothetical situation where adequate food is hard to find
lol

>>734261539
>No, the resources you are wasting by posting on 4chan affects everyone
Which resources?
>so the outcome is a positive benefit.
No, it isn't. If a firefighter intentionally murders someone, is it okay because he helps other people?

>>734262346
Nah, fuck it. It's still cooked. Prolly just the juice running down. Raw meat looks smooth. Raw meat is also delicious, as long as you don't live in a parasite-infested shithole.

>>734262304
Like I said, I can't change how you feel.

>>734257479

What about the fact that everything that has ever existed, exists to eat other forms of life, in order to be eaten by other forms of life. That is what life is. Your argument is literally invalid, as this argument always is.

>>734262479
>Which resources
Electricity, wear & tear on the equipment involved, time that you could be spending productively.
>No, it isn't. If a firefighter intentionally murders someone, is it okay because he helps other people?
You're the one arguing that a positive benefit can negate detrimental actions, not me.

>>734262468
Not that guy, but if vegans use that "you don't kill your own food" BS, how many veggiefags here grow their own supply exclusively?

>>734262468
>still assuming theres enough room for all the hippies in LA and San Francisco to grow enough food to survive off of

tl;dr fuck it eat meat
find a better way to make meat

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>>734262017
Prove it
Moral is presumed, never deduced, it's presumed in the deepest parts of the metaphysical part of our ontologies, and completely subjective, it should not be cited in logical arguments for no one can truly agree on what constitutes a good morality, and no a priori knowledge is known about morality.

>>734262290
>I don't understand tf you're saying.
I know. You said that reductio ad absurdum is an argument, and replied with a reductio ad absurdum "argument", to lay out the inherrent stupidity in said form of arguing.

it's a retorical catch22, if you disagree with my slippery-slope then you prove me right in saying that reductio ad absurdum is not an argument.

>>734262799
I meant ethically not morally.

>>734262468
being an omnivore is more cost effective and available. also more healthy than vegans and people that only eat meat

>>734262813
You have that "Logical fallcay" webpage up? Close that shit! You just sound pretentious and douchey.

>>734262813
Mate, reduction ad absurdum is provable in classical logic, it's a rule of inference, it means
(A->B^¬B)->¬A
claiming a rule of inference is not an argument is the same as claiming that Modus ponens isn't an argument.

>>734262799
Not him, but you can deduce moral actions from a subjective basis.

Someone can reject your basis, but if they agree with it then there can be inescapable consequences. The same thing goes for exposing the problems with the morality of others.

>>734257479
Look at your teeth in the mirror you stupid fuck. There's a reason you have canines and incisors.

>>734262997
Ethics depends on your utility function, since that's subjective...

>>734262997
Pretty much what I do. Though I do it because I believe a happy animal tastes better. It's the reason I buy cage free birds.

>>734263095
True, but some morals are more, uhm, resistant, because contradictions are accepted in the morality, see Thrasymachus in Republic

>>734260223
>not washing veggies
You meat eaters can't even

>>734257479

>eating animals makes me happy.

>>734262757
california isnt the entire country of america you absolute massive fucking douchebag faggot. we already have more than enough food for everyone, we spend the lowest percent of our gdp on food than any other country, by a slightly significant amount, like 2-3% less than the next country.

>>734263048
I have no idea what you're talking about.
>>734263085
oh right, so Trump literally is Hitler.

>>734262641
>You're the one arguing that a positive benefit can negate detrimental actions, not me.
No I'm not. Killing animals and eating them harms you and the animals. Posting on 4chan harms me. I already said this.

>>734260356
I could harvest my entire diet in a garden of eden
Hardly break a sweat

You'd have to chase kill prepare and eat.

>>734263012
what's your point? did you read my comment and immediately think something was wrong with it? because it seems like we agree.

>>734263611
That's when you turn and walk away.

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>>734263264

ITT: butt hurt meat eaters realize the only reason people eat meat is due to a lack of restraint and discipline.

>>734263791
>Posting on 4chan harms me
And everyone else. I already said this.

>>734263738
>oh right, so Trump literally is Hitler.
I don't follow. I don't know what constitutes an argument for you, I take as an argument a collection of logical substitutions and applications that seeks to further my point.

>>734262544
In my honest untrained chef and professional bullshitter opinion, I still find it uneven. Still, I agree, it's cooked, could be the juices, and would even eat it raw.

>>734263961
ITT: butt hurt vegans realize the only reason people don't eat meat is due to muh feels