>What is the gospel? The gospel is the message that Jesus

>>732385757
>enter into his own creation and die for the sins of his people
>die for the sins of his people
>die
Doesn't even count as a sacrifice when he can respawn at will.

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>>732385757
I choose to believe that Jesus, God, and the holy spirit are 3 separate beings.

>>732386268
Just imagine if the whole Jesus thing happened in the 19th or early 20th century and he was killed by firing squad. Everyone would be wearing necklaces with little gold rifles instead of crosses.

>>732386158
It was because death cannot hold it's grip on the son of God and so by the power of the holy spirit he was raised again on the 3rd day and is the same spirit that raised Christ from the dead will also be the same spirit that raised you on the last day.

>>732386268
The Heavenly Council is now debating whether feminine penises are a real thing.

God: No
Jesus: Hell yea!
Spirit: Who cares?
Satan: *unzips*

>>732385757
NO! NO! AND NO! you have to be a decent human being your not just forgiven of sins. If you ask for forgiveness and truly want forgiveness and have resentment and believe in God you can earn entrance other wise Hitler would be in heaven because he is Cristian but he is a sinner and sinners go to hell you are fucking retarded. PS angels and soldier's not whatever the fuck most people think they are and God is wrathful so if you sin it is NOT washed away by the blood of Christ because otherwise only nonbelievers would go to hell

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>>732386268
>many
[citication needed]
Anyways: It's always nice to have christianity here, it has a largely positive influence on peoples behaviour, so for that i can accept that. I don't agree with a lot of it because i understand that the bible was tailored for people roughly 2000 years ago. When extracting the social main aspects of it you come to the values of western civilization. The actually civilized ones anyways.

In the end i don't need to believe in a sky daddy who wants me to stop masturbating in order to be a good human and i consider it a waste of time, but whater floats your boat.
It was a guidance at some points, but i can live by those main rules without hoping to get into some wonder land.

>>732386268
Then you are a heretic who does not believe in the true triune god. But we can discuss our differences.

>>732386747
Actually, the cross was a much later thing. It was originally a fish due to Jesus saying to Andrew if he follows him he will make them fisher of men but was later on changed.

>>732386799
What are you talking about?

>>732386916
Good question! I deliberately not include the answer so that people can ask this question and I can respond to it. The reason why I do this is because I believe that through conversation and effective questioning it can cause you to think deeper about the truth of the gospel. Ok, I'll begin.

Yes, we are saved by faith alone apart from works. This is an undeniable truth of scripture Jut look at this verse from Romans in the Bible

>For we maintain that a person is justified by faith apart from the works of the law.
Romans 3:28

But then this make one wonder. Doesn't this contradict James?

>You see that a person is justified by works and not by faith alone.
James 2:24

But what one must first understand is that there are two kinds of faith. One is false faith, the type that even the devil has, then there's true faith; the type that brings forth good fruits IE proof of it's existence by doing good works. A better verse to understand this would be on James as well.

>https://www.biblegateway.com/passage/?search=james+2:14-20
James 2:14-20

So what does this tell us? It says that if you have faith but it does not bring good fruits then it is false. A truly saved man will do good works not to get something out of God since his heavenly place has been set for him since he has been saved by the blood of Christ but rather that we do it out of love. You treat your children nicely out of love not to seem good to them, and so we do the same for god. We love God and so try to please him. Theoretically, you could be saved and go out on a murder spree, but you wouldn't do that due to your love of God.

Hope that answered your question.

>>732386771
>death cannot hold it's grip on the son of God
Which is why it's not really a sacrifice on his part. It's barely even a token gesture when you consider that he has infinite continues.

You people act like it was this great selfless gesture but it was an absolute pittance

>>732386983
why did jesus have to die for our sins if he is literally god? i'm a christian, i try to live my life the way it seems jesus would have me live it, but some of this doesn't make sense. for a long time as i understood it, jesus is the son of god just like if you or i had a son, that son would be a part of us but not literally us. see what i'm getting at here? i want to please god but in order to serve someone you have to undersstand what they want and preferably WHY they want it

>>732386937
>I don't agree with a lot of it because I understand that the bible was tailored for people roughly 2000 years ago.
Yes, but it is still applicable till today. Also, Christianity has given the west most of its modern ideas of morality which the West is starting to lose and thus bringing the downfall of the western society.

>In the end, i don't need to believe in a sky daddy who wants me to stop masturbating in order to be a good human, and I consider it a waste of time, but whatever floats your boat.

Cont...

>>732386937
>In the end i don't need to believe in a sky daddy who wants me to stop masturbating in order to be a good human and i consider it a waste of time, but whater floats your boat.

Another good question. Thank you for giving me the privilege of answering such an important doctrinal teaching.

When you say good, to who standards are we talking about? If we're talking about man's standards then is that good enough? We as humans have immensely low standards when compared to that of the creator of the universe, and it is his standard, at the end of the day, that we must fulfil in order to achieve eternal life.

There is, in fact, a story in the OT that directly answers your query. Read this from Isaiah...

>And I said: "Woe is me! For I am lost; for I am a man of unclean lips, and I dwell in the midst of a people of unclean lips; for my eyes have seen the King, the LORD of hosts!"
Isaiah 6:5

Now, this verse might not make a lot of sense to you but here is the context. Here, Isaiah is speaking, who was the most holy man in all of Jerusalem. If you saw him, you would think to yourself that he is clearly a man sent by God. He might have even of thought of himself like this also, but who was he comparing himself to? To other people! But in this wonderful verse Isaiah sees the Lord surrounded by all of his angels as they scream "Kadosh", which mean Holy, Isaiah looks in awe and finally sees the true standards of goodness. As what does the most holy man in all of Jerusalem say, if not then the world? "I am a man of unclean lips, surrounded by people of unclean lips".

You see Isaiah saw the true standards that needed to be met and after seeing it, he saw his true sinful self. And so we must think the same of all people. No one is without sin, and because of this, we all deserve death. But if one humbles himself believes then he is saved.

>>732387110
>Which is why it's not really a sacrifice on his part.
It is since he was slain for the remission of our sins.

>You people act like it was this great selfless gesture but it was an absolute pittance
In fact, it was since he didn't even have to do it but did so out of love.

>>732387100
>"And I saw the number of them that were sealed and they were a hundred and forty and four thousand of the twelve tribes of Israel and these were the chosen of God."
It plainly states that 144,000 jewish men (the "them" was masculine in the original text) are chosen. So no, not everyone who believes gets in. In fact, thanks to World War II it's almost certain that those 144,000 seats are all already filled.
>you could be saved and go out on a murder spree, but you wouldn't do that
unless you wanted to earn 72 virgins in heaven. It's the same god, after all.
What's that I hear you thinking?
His book is wrong but yours is right?
I wonder why you're so confident about that.

>>732387327
>why did Jesus have to die for our sins if he is literally God?
Because only a sinless man can die for the sins of a sinful people. Think of it this way. Say you're I court, and Joseph Stalin is put on trial for his crimes then Hitler comes in and says no take me. What do you think they're gonna do? Do you think they're gonna let Stalin go and punish Hitler? Of course not but instead they will both be put into jail. So only a sinless man can take on the sins of a sinful people.

> I'm a Christian, I try to live my life the way it seems Jesus would have me live it, but some of this doesn't make sense. for a long time as I understood it, Jesus is the son of God just like if you or I had a son, that son would be a part of us but not literally us.
read>>732387478

> see what I'm getting at here? I want to please God, but in order to serve someone you have to understand what they want and preferably WHY they want it
Great, thanks for asking. Go read my OP, and you will realise that it is faith alone that saves.

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>>732387478
>at the end of the day, that we must fulfil in order to achieve eternal life.
I think i'll take my chances on burning for eternity.
>"I am a man of unclean lips, surrounded by people of unclean lips"
I don't get what you're getting at, people curse and insult each other - that's bad, but not doing it is basic empathy and social understanding.
>You see Isaiah saw the true standards that needed to be met and after seeing it
Well but i aperrently didn't, shit sucks :((((
>we all deserve death
I don't think so, but whatever - you call it gods will, i'd call it physics - not that much of a difference here.

Anyways: If you seem so bible knowing - what do you Think would happen if we copied a human atom by atom - would the soul split or doubled?
>inb4 that's impossible
We will get there, maybe in a 1000 years or so, but we will get there.

>>732387631
>he was slain
No, he wasn't. Not the same way you or I could be slain. He was merely bumped from the server for three days. He lost absolutely nothing in the process of enacting this "sacrifice". He isn't missing out on anything. So what if he didn't choose to stay on earth after resurrecting, or didn't choose to make himself another mortal form? It's not like dying on the cross somehow made him unable to do those things (all-powerful, remember?).

Now if Jesus was a real person, who *wasn't* God himself, and he let himself be killed so that his followers wouldn't be captured and killed, THAT would be a noble sacrifice. But if he's the almighty, then he didn't sacrifice a fucking thing because he's still the almighty.

>>732387844
>It plainly states that 144,000 Jewish men (the "them" was masculine in the original text) are chosen. So no, not everyone who believes gets in. In fact, thanks to World War II it's almost certain that those 144,000 seats are all already filled.
Are you discord user "Obidiencetogod?" Anyway, I'll answer.

First of all, I don' think it says that only Jews will be saved. In fact, from reading the rest of the chapter, it seems to say something far from that. Before I carry on, I want you to keep total depravity in mind. Ok,

In verse 9 I talks about goyim IE all other tribes nation and languages. But look at what it says afterwards. That they were wearing white robes washed in the blood of Christ Rev 7:9 and 7:14. Only the saved can be washed and cannot go hell because to be washed in the blood would mean that Christ died for you and took your sins on the cross. Also, it mentions them exalting God shouting out “Salvation belongs to our God, who sits on the throne, and to the Lamb.” As we know from total depravity, no sinner could make this type of statement, and it be sincere. One can also see from the theme that it feels happy and they are praising God ins stereotypical cartoon clothing that being white robes. This chapter doesn't at all talk about only Jews going heaven but just exclusively talks about each individual's peoples salvation not that one will while.

>unless you wanted to earn 72 virgins in heaven. It's the same god, after all.
No, you've missed my point. If you did that, then you aren't truly saved. Perhaps that would be the case in Islam but I'm not a Muslim, but a Christian and we do not condone that type of behaviour.

>>732388425
>I think I'll take my chances on burning for eternity.
You have the freedom to do that and more "power" to you.

>I don't get what you're getting at, people curse and insult each other - that's bad, but not doing it is basic empathy and social understanding.
Re-read what I wrote. He was the holiest man in all of Jerusalem, and when he saw true objective goodness, he realised he was not as good as he thought.

>Well but i apparently didn't, shit sucks :((((
Just bare in mind that he was the holiest man in Jerusalem.

>I don't think so, but whatever - you call it gods will, I'd call it physics - not that much of a difference here.
What point are you trying to make? Are you saying physics says that we all deserve death? I think that's biology. Also, you've missed the point. In Christian lexicon, death means eternal separation from God.

>Anyways: If you seem so bible knowing - what do you Think would happen if we copied a human atom by atom - would the soul split or doubled?
I don't know what you're asking. Perhaps rephrase it.

Shameless self bump!

>>732388445
>Not the same way you or I could be slain.
It was just that he rose again. Anyway, his flesh was sinless flesh, and so when he rose again his body did decay like any other body, but that spirit which was gods was raised up and regained its seat in heaven. Your spirit too can gain heaven while your body stays here on earth if you submit to christ.

>>732388026
thanks for addressing my question. i still just don't fully understand the trinity.

....just trying to figure this out. sometimes wonder if me thinking about this stuff makes god angry but it seems like it's better to understand it all(or get as close as we can) than just blindly accept it and have the questions floating around in the backs of our minds causing our faith to be tempted. i struggle with this a lot and it sucks

so god... the same god that is talked about in the old testament, yhwh, left heaven in the form of jesus according to the OP as i can understand it and came down to die for our sins. but i just cant understand why. this is an argument athiests use and it just seems like i'm missing a big step somewhere

>>732388525
>Perhaps that would be the case in Islam but I'm not a Muslim, but a Christian
And in making this statement you are arrogantly assuming that the universe must match your beliefs. Yours is not the original faith of the God Of Abraham, that would be Judaism. Your religion is the sequel, and there were two more sequels after you. Yet you thoughtlessly throw the later works attributed to your own God into the same pile with the old gods and totem spirits.
How can you be so certain that you are right and that the Qu'Aran and Book Of Mormon aren't?
And please don't just go
>because my book says.....
even though I know that's as far as you'll be able to think on the matter.

>>732389315
>if you submit to christ.
And if you don't, who is it that condemns you to eternal perdition?
God himself, right? And Jesus is God, so it's really more of a threat than an offer.
"Do what I tell you or I'll torture you for billions of years." and I'm supposed to feel grateful for the opportunity to be subjugated by someone who threatens me with millenia of torture?

>>732387110
dude god took human form and endured all of what we endure and some to free us from the ties that bind us to death

God knows our pain and more and wants us to be free from it.

he is just finishing what he started

unlike you.

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>>732388912
>Just bare in mind that he was the holiest man in Jerusalem.
Which was defined by some people blindly following a given cult. Not that believable people in my book.
>splitting of the soul.
It's a ethical /religious dilemma i'm currently pondering on.
Scientifically we know that a human is compositioned of atoms on a lowest level, we have the technology to prove that.
We can re-create things, or more technically speaking: Copying.
We haven't reached the layer of atoms quiet yet, but we can see it, so i'll just predict that we will be able to do that in a 1000 years.
So at that point we can recreate a person - atom by atom. Both people would feel the same and think the same till both woke up, only one would be a copy of the original.
The question is: Is the copy even a human? Does he have a soul? Does he deserve to be considered human?

>>732389829
>and wants us to be free from it.
Then why is he still causing it?

>>732389540
>Trinity
Ok, I'll start this off the same way I always start of when talking about God. Don't make assumptions about God, his nature and plan. Yes, the trinity is something unique, but despite this, it is a truth found in scripture that we must believe after it has been revealed to us. The Trinity should not give us doubt but rather an insight into the complexity of God where he is one being who has three distinct persons. Despite him having three distinct persons in the one being that is God they are all in essence one. We, a single person sharing one being but we must understand that God is more complex than we are; that is why in the OT notes doing things and refers to himself as "we" in a singular context.

>but I just can't understand why he had to die.
I think I explained this in the comment here: >>732388026 but feel free to ask further if you want more things to be clarified.

>>732389825
There is no need to submit. I did not come to judge.

You only need to believe that I am.

>>732389972
who said he was causing anything?
you have free will
God does not make you do anything
the perfect man would do nothing at all
try again.

>>732389569
>And in making this statement, you are arrogantly assuming that the universe must match your beliefs.
Wow, didn't think it would get so confrontational so quick but I'll answer anyways. That statement was just stating that I am a Christian and not a Muslim and the point you were making was better directed to Muslims.

> Yours is not the original faith of the God Of Abraham, that would be Judaism.
And I believe in Judaism!

>How can you be so certain that you are right and that the Qu'Aran and Book Of Mormon aren't?
It's called studying fam. I used to be a Muslim and have been invited to a Mormon temple. Both didn't appeal to me in the end, and I chose Christ.

>>732389825
>And if you don't, who is it that condemns you to eternal perdition?
God does not send anyone to hell but we do so out of our own free will. God just saves not send to hell.

>so it's really more of a threat than an offer.
he's trying to save you!

>"Do what I tell you or I'll torture you for billions of years."
That's not how hell works. God does not torture anyone, in fact, he isn't then. That's why it's so bad.

>>732390253
>who said he was causing anything?
Uh...God said it.
If you're going to advocate the Bible, you might want to actually read it.
(Isaiah 45:7)

>>732389995
yeah you did explain it but i've got some kinda mental road block there that stops me from understanding it which is maybe for the best. just wish we could go back to "hey dont eat that, you'll die"

Jesus was not Christian.

Christianity is based on his teachings, life and death.

Jesus would be against today's religious dogma.

>>732389909
>Which was defined by some people blindly following a given cult. Not that believable people in my book.
Not really. To give you an insight. He would have been a praying man who was caring and loving and most likely had humbleness and didn't think that he was better than anyone else. Also, it's not a cult. If you look into cults then it you would know that Christianity does not fit into the definition of cult,

>>732390532
who said i was advocating something man has translated countless times and redacted many truths that would challenge the belief system in the first place

>>732390339
>the point you were making was better directed to Muslims.
False.
It applies to any follower of the God Of Abraham. You are wilfully turning a blind eye to the possibility that God's third book is valid.
>didn't appeal to me in the end
>I chose
That won't help you in the slightest if you're wrong. The God described in the Qu'Aran will not exalt you for deciding you didn't like what he had to say in the third book.
>>732390498
>God does not send anyone to hell
Read the fucking book, idiot. It is God himself who casts everyone into the lake of fire.

>>732389909
>The question is: Is the copy even a human? Does he have a soul? Does he deserve to be considered human?
I don't know what this has to do with Christianity, but I'd say I don't know. Yet again I could be wrong.

Also, Isaiah was the most holy man in the world according to the creator of the universe.

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>>732390743
Don't worry, if you feel like it you can call it WHATEVER you want to.
If you're serious about it then keep going, but you might wanna leave /b/ - this isn't the place for your kind.

>>732385757
II wonder what Exodus 21 1-... has to say?

>>732390673
>yeah you did explain it, but I've got some kinda mental road block there that stops me from understanding it
Perhaps we can discuss these misunderstandings. Feel free to ask more questions.

> just wish we could go back to "hey dont eat that, you'll die"
I mean even that has its flaws. What do you do in situations when you have to kill one to save two? Ethical dilemmas.

>>732391083
>this isn't the place for your kind.
You must go to where the sinners are.
Because that's where you'll find the loli threads.

>>732390935
hes just a piece of the most high.
just like you. but different.

>>732390673
>hey dont eat that, you'll die
Not what happened.
They ate the fruit and gained the knowledge of good and evil. And YHVH said "now they have become as us".

The whole mortality thing was part of God's punishment for eating the fruit, not a direct effect of the fruit.

Hi there from an adherent of the One, Holy, Catholic, and Apostolic Church.

>>732390921
>It applies to any follower of the God Of Abraham. You are wilfully turning a blind eye to the possibility that God's third book is valid.
If you do bad things, then it is a sign that you are not truly saved. Read those verses in James. It outlines it very well. How can you say you truly have faith when you hate your brother and curse your neighbour? Also, I told you that I have studied those books and I am not turning a blind eye. I know more about Islam and Mormonism than you and ain't the end I chose Christianity.

>Read the fucking book, idiot. It is God himself who casts everyone into the lake of fire.
I have, more so than you and I know that hell is the eternal separation from god. Perhaps bring a bible verse to accompany beside just paraphrasing verses.

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>>732391216
If you stare into the abyss the abyss also stares back into you.

https://youtu.be/ZmSXeNzPyc4

For you anon

>>732391083
Thanks for answering my points. Feel free to ask more questions.

>>732391456
Hey, how are you doing?

>>732391513
>If you do bad things, then it is a sign that you are not truly saved
But Jihad is not a bad thing according to the Qu'Aran.
Again, you are blindly assuming that God is somehow bound by your beliefs. How do you feel about taking teenage girls as sex slaves after killing their parents in an invasion? Because that's directly advocated in YOUR bible, to say nothing of the Qu'Aran.

>>732391563
I haven't got the time right now. I'll answer later. God willing.

>>732391513
>Perhaps bring a bible verse
Revelation 20:15
SUCK IT.

>>732391678
>But Jihad is not a bad thing according to the Qu'Aran.
Do you even know what jihad is? Also, not a Muslim.

>>732391182
>misunderstandings
for starters, i get that god is so complex that we probably CANT fully understand him with our uh... puny brains... but jesus being part of that trinity dying to satisfy another part just doesn't click in my brain. i'm not playing it down either. don't misunderstand me there it just doesn't make sense. them all being 3 heads on one body it just seems like god(the father) could have sent the son(portion?) to teach and not suffer right? jesus didn't do anything wrong, yet he was made to hurt for my sins while he is literally a piece of god(i'm probably making another assumption there but i can't help it.) making an offering to himself
this just kinda scares me.

and with the "hey dont eat this you'll die" thing i mean i wish we could go back to the age of innocence and not have to worry about these things and just do as he asks when he asks

>>732391365
see above. and i'm pretty sure god did warn them that the punishment would be death

>>732391750
Yes, I believe that but it is due to the humans and their own actions that they were sent there. Once your time has come, you will be sent to the place you spent your whole life working for.

>>732391970
>they were sent there
BY.
GOD.
HIMSELF.

>>732392024
Of course. Once they died, they were sent into the fire by God but don't take the sent by God part too literally. He didn't force them to sin but rather gave them a way out. But instead they denied it, and so God sent them away from him forever just like they wanted.

>>732391718
The fact that you are willing to watch at some point just melts my heart with joy:) i hope you accept the Lord Jesus Christ soon :)
Said a small prayer for you:)

>>732392314
I do believe in Jesus christ.

>>732391821
Looks like you dont know what jihad is and think it can only be associated with terrorism.
Its the act of doing something good not for selfish reasons.

>>732392306
>gave them a way out
So if I tell you I'll kill you if you don't lick my cock, it's YOUR fault when I shoot you in the head?
Because that's what you're saying here.
It's YOUR fault if he makes good on his THREAT to torture you even though YOU and POSSIBILITY are both his inventions.
Here in the future world of 2017, we call this "Stockholm Syndrome"

>>732385757
>>732391678
Im not a muslim either. Born again believer

>>732391943
> I get that God is so complex that we probably CANT fully understand him with our uh... puny brains
I do believe that, but I have almost never used that form or argumentation and always try to provide an answer that is acceptable to the questioner.

>but Jesus being part of that trinity dying to satisfy another part just doesn't click in my brain
You've got the trinity quite wrong there. They're all fully God. The father, son and holy spirit are all really God but are one in being and essence. But it wasn't just to satisfy. It was to follow justice. You see in the bible the wages of sin if death and so we must pay y going to hell but instead of doing this Christ gives us a way out while still being just. The wages of sin is dealt with by his death on the cross while his mercy is shown by the way that he give his perfect record of obedience to his believers. And all you have to do to attain christ's righteousness is belive.

>>732392766
Ugh im replying anons all wrong

>>732392607
I never even said that it was. he was implying that it was that but I understood that jihad is holy war and can mean fighting in self-defence.

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>>732385757
kek=god
pepe=jesus
spirit=autisim
that is all you need to know

>>732392642
Well, your forcing them. Also, you have to bare in mind that we put ourself in this situation. We were originally sinless and perfect in the garden and with God but rebelled against him. God doesn't send people to hell but we send ourselves, and if we only just believe then we would be saved.

Instead, think of it this way. Imagine you're on a sinking ship and a man throughs a rope at you and you don't take the rope and die. Who's fault is it that you drowned and died?

This shit is beyond retarded. Fuck Jesus.

>>732393176
Thanks for joining. If there are any questions, you would like for me to answer then feel free to ask and I will answer to the best of my abilities.

>>732393296
Why are you such a faggot?

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>>732385757

>>732393140
shadilay my brother

>>732393527
I'm not. Sorry if I come off that way but like I said earlier feel free to ask questions.

>>732393141
>your forcing them
"It can be argued whether a man who does good out of the fear of eternal torment is actually good or merely cowardly"
~Samuel Langhorn Clemens, aka Mark Twain
>we put ourself in this situation
No, a woman made out of a rib and a magic talking snake put us in this situation. I had nothing to do with it.
>God doesn't send people to hell
Yes he does, if you don't do what he tells you to do. Again, Revelation 20:15.
>Who's fault is it that you drowned and died.
Well since in this analogy, the guy throwing the rope is also the guy who sank the ship because he didn't like where it was headed.....

>>732393640
Protestantism is based on old traditional beliefs and follow some of the teachings preached my Thomas Aquinas and other early church fathers.

>>732385757

> first picture is of a girl and a dog
> /b/ argues over religion instead of posting girls taking the knot

never change

>>732392798
>you've got the trinity quite wrong there
yeah i figured as much.
so god is so firm in his word that he just died as a way to create a loophole?(poor wording i know).
i promise i'm not retarded but i for some reason get weird when i take dayquil(got a head cold)

on some issues i can just keep praying until i get answers, but this one scares me with jesus' warning about blaspheming the holy spirit

This world is just absolute shit, God or Jesus isn't going to fix it, it can't be fixed.

>>732393745
>"It can be argued whether a man who does well out of the fear of eternal torment is actually good or merely cowardly"
I agree, but we Christians do it out of our love of God because we know that as soon as you believe, then you are going to heaven
>sola Fide
And so when we do works we don't do it to attain heaven because our faith has already granted us that but rather out of love of God.

>No, a woman made out of a rib and a magic talking snake put us in this situation. I had nothing to do with it.
But what they did was sin. Now you sin every day and so have done the equivalent to eating the apple almost every minute.

>Yes he does, if you don't do what he tells you to do. Again, Revelation 20:15.
I know but think of it this way. Who sends a murderer to prison the police or the murderer? Who sends a thief to jail the judge or the thief? Of course, God does the actual action but don't act like it wasn't because of what you did.

>Well since in this analogy, the guy throwing the rope is also the guy who sank the ship because he didn't like where it was headed.
No, we sank the ship ourselves, and by sinning, we sink it even deeper.

>>732394037
It's ok. We are commanded int the Bible to mediate study and preach the message of the bible so people can understand and believe.

>Study this Book of Instruction continually. Meditate on it day and night, so you will be sure to obey everything written in it. Only then will you prosper and succeed in all you do.
Joshua 1:8

But then again it is understandable that you might not understand some things that then needs to be explained.

>He writes the same way in all his letters, speaking in them of these matters. His letters contain some things that are hard to understand, which ignorant and unstable people distort, as they do the other Scriptures, to their own destruction.
2 Peter 3:16

is there a Multiverse?

>>732394084
Read this. I wrote it to answer another anon's question and I think that it is applicable here too.

The age old questions of pain and suffering. This question, above all others including those who suppose there are contradictions in the Bible, including those who claim the text of the Bible aren't historically reliable and above those who say that it is a false gospel, is the one is most hard to answer because it involves human emotions as well as brings God benevolence into question.

First, of I would like to say we are sojourners
on this earth. This place on earth should not be seen as a destination but rather a journey. A journey of us seeking to return to our creator and finding Shalom(Jewish word for peace) with him.

In this world, there is pain and suffering, but even in suffering good can come out of it. Through trial and tribulation, we can become stronger and feel better connected to those who have gone through the same pain. A better illustration of what Ia m trying to say can be found in Romans

>Not only that, but we also rejoice in our sufferings, because we know that suffering produces perseverance; perseverance, character; and character, hope.
>Romans 5:3-4

But you shouldn't lose hope because through this pain and suffering God gives you a light at the end of the tunnel. Christ himself went through pain on this earth: he was ridiculed, spat on, beat and even nailed to a cross naked. And all for what? It was love. He truly sought out your salvation and a way for you to be free form this earthly pain and did so by "suffering."

In the case of your GrandFather, I think you should rest easy. Like you said...

>He always kind to everybody, was religious and loved his family very much.

This was all Christ was asking for, and by your grandfather, following the basic principles of faith he was finally free from suffering and is probably much happier in the place he is now than the happiest person on earth is.

>>732394699
Perhaps, the bible doesn't say anything about it. I have in fact heard Christians promote it. Don't know how it fits into the whole Bible message thing but... hey.

>>732394306
>as soon as you believe, then you are going to heaven
Again, you are presuming that the universe MUST be in accordance with what you've already stated simply felt right to you. Your confidence that the OT is obsolete, the NT is relevant, and the Qu'Aran and Book Of Mormon are irrelevant all hinge entirely on "only things that make sense to me are true".
>you sin every day
I do not. I am a Taoist. I do not "do" anything, I am merely part of what is happening. What you would call my choices are precipitated by my previous experiences. I believe what I believe because I have been led down this path. That your path is a different path from mine is of no concern to me. That your path even exists is clear evidence that it is a part of the Tao. That the Muslim path, the Odinists, the Atheists, even the Scientologists, exist is inherent proof that they have a purpose.

As such, I have no interest in turning you away from your path, I am merely being a whetstone for you to sharpen your points against (and I dare say you do need a bit more sharpening).

>>732395048
>Again, you are presuming that the universe MUST be in accordance with what you've already stated simply felt right to you.
It goes beyond that. I have also looked into it and have chosen Christianity. And in Christianity, it teaches the things, and I am telling you the system of salvation in Christianity.

>Your confidence that the OT is obsolete
Nope, I believe in the OT

>the NT is relevant
Yep!

>and the Qu'Aran and Book Of Mormon are irrelevant all hinge entirely on "only things that make sense to me are true".
Pretty sure I answered this. I used to be Muslims and have been invited to a Mormon temple. I have looked into these religions and have chosen Christianity in the end due to a number of reasons.

>I do not. I am a Taoist. I do not "do" anything, I am merely part of what is happening. What you would call my choices are precipitated by my previous experiences. I believe what I believe because I have been led down this path. That your path is a different path from mine is of no concern to me. That your path even exists is clear evidence that it is a part of the Tao. That the Muslim path, the Odinists, the Atheists, even the Scientologists, exist is inherent proof that they have a purpose.

Again, you are presuming that the universe MUST be in accordance with what you've already stated simply felt right to you. Your confidence that the OT is obsolete, the Taoist religion is relevant, and the Qu'Aran and Book Of Mormon are irrelevant all hinge entirely on "only things that make sense to me are true".

:^)

Step 1: Become Zen Buddhist
Step 2: Stop being dicks to each other and live your life
Step 3: ???
Step 4: Profit

>Also inb4 404

>>732387478
you are spending your entire life trolling yourself

i dont care whether you realize it or not

its monkey brain hogwash, and you try to do mentail gymnastics to make it relevent

>>732395979
Thanks for joining. If there are any questions, you would like for me to answer then feel free to ask and I will answer to the best of my abilities.

>>732395886
Or

Step 1: Become a Christian
Step 2: Have faith in Christ which will lead to you doing good works out of love and not an obligation.
Step 3: ???
Step 4: Recieve eternal life!

>>732395478
>only things that make sense to me are true
The Tao that did not include things which confuse me would not be the true Tao. I am not nearly so conceited to presume that I will be able to understand the universe. And you may want to re-read my previous post if you think that I believe your religion is not relevant. I plainly state that its very existence is evidence of its purpose. The blacksmith does not hammer the sword because he does not want it to be a sword, he does it to strengthen the sword. The teacher does not ask difficult questions to convince you that you cannot learn, he does it to prod you into thinking further.

>>732396087
The only question I've ever wondered is why will God do through prayer so many things but he won't heal an amputee?

>>732396199
You do good works as a zen buddhist because they're good works and you're a decent human being, not because you're required to do them

>>732386268
They r seperate

>>732396259
He did do those things during his time on earth but all that he got was a nail through the hands. Also, try reading my comment here.>>732394793

>>732396323
I don't even do good works because the works I do are not my own but rather good working through me. This is good because I cannot boast about how good I am or how better I am than someone else since the good works I do is not even my own.

>>732396408
Matthew 7:7 Jesus says:

Ask, and it will be given you; seek, and you will find; knock, and it will be opened to you. For every one who asks receives, and he who seeks finds, and to him who knocks it will be opened. Or what man of you, if his son asks him for bread, will give him a stone? Or if he asks for a fish, will give him a serpent? If you then, who are evil, know how to give good gifts to your children, how much more will your Father who is in heaven give good things to those who ask him!

You're as like to turn to God as anything else. God died with the gold standard. We're on to more concrete faith now. You have to rob Paul to pay Peter, there is no other way. Murder in it's simplest form, but what happens when all the money is gone? Well, money becomes a matter of faith. And that's what I'm here for. To make you believe.

>>732396545
I don't even do sins because the sins I do are not my own but rather sin working through me. This is good because I cannot regret how bad I am or how worse I am than someone else since the sins I do are not even my own.

>>732396408
Jesus says something similar in Matthew 21:21:

I tell you the truth, if you have faith and do not doubt, not only can you do what was done to the fig tree, but also you can say to this mountain, 'Go, throw yourself into the sea,' and it will be done. If you believe, you will receive whatever you ask for in prayer.

So was Jesus lying or is he telling the truth? Was it a half truth for prayer to work only during his time, or did he intend to keep his word throughout the future of man?

>>732396223
>The Tao that did not include things which confuse me would not be the true Tao.
rephrase

>I am not nearly so conceited to presume that I will be able to understand the universe.
Neither am I.

To answer your last point. What point are you making? Do you think that Christianity has a purpose? Anyway, you did ask me a question that is common among atheist, and so I gave you and answered,

>>732396611
>You have to rob Paul to pay Peter,
I'm not robbing Paul, I'm robbing $ony and Lisa Marie Presley. When Paul gets the rights to the Beatles music back I'm going to buy all those albums legally.

>>732396576
Amen, but no one knocked and no one asks and so God takes it upon himself to turn your heart of stone to a heart of flesh

>>732396818
Please see the following :
>>732396753
>>732396576

Does prayer work? According to Jesus, it should or Christians wouldn't pray for things to happen. Therefore, my question stands: Why won't god heal amputees?

>>732396611
Can you rephrase that, please? I don't think I fully understood the point you was making.

>>732396953
I have a feeling you, op, are waiting for the thread to 404 so you don't have to answer this

>>732387844
Fuck you you fucking muslim

>>732396753
> If ye have faith, and doubt not.—The promise, in its very form, excludes a literal fulfilment. The phrase to “remove mountains” (as in 1Corinthians 13:2) was a natural hyperbole for overcoming difficulties, and our Lord in pointing to “this mountain”—as He had done before to Hermon (Matthew 17:20)—did but give greater vividness to an illustration which the disciples would readily understand. A mere physical miracle, such as the removal of the mountain, could never be in itself the object of the prayer of a faith such as our Lord described. The hyperbole is used here, as elsewhere, to impress on men’s mind the truth which lies beneath it.
Ellicott's Commentary for English Readers

>>732396953
I just have

>>732397175
I'm OP but I wish I could add name or tripcode but sadly you can't.

>>732397315
???

>>732387100
Again Hitler believed what he was doing was right. So he didn't see it as a sin to kill the jews. So is he in heaven or hell and why???

>>732397324
Hyperbole, yes, I can believe that. However, Jesus literally says in Mark 11:24:
Therefore I tell you, whatever you ask for in prayer, believe that you have received it, and it will be yours.

>>732397544
>So is he in heaven or hell and why???
I don't have the right to answer that. But then again Hitler was going based on his own view or morality and not god's. God is our source of objective morality and not man, and so we follow it. But if you wanna see what type of person Isaiah was then just read the book of Isaiah and see for yourself.

All this retardation could even be excusable, if it didn't end up fueling the fucking "religion" business.
It's folks like you that end up supporting limitations of rights for people because your fucking preacher/bishop/pope told you to do it in the name of Jesus (which would've given zero shits about any of that).

>>732397573
>Mark 11:24:
If you read the context then you will see that it is still talking aboout the metaphore of moving mountains

also,

>Believe that ye receive them.—The better MSS. give the latter verb in the past tense, “Believe that ye received them.” It is obvious that, as a rule, such words imply prayer for spiritual rather than temporal blessings. In that region the subjective faith becomes an objective reality. We are to believe, not that we shall one day have what we pray for in a future more or less distant, but that we actually receive it as we pray. In most, if not in all cases, in prayer for peace, pardon, illumination, the promise, though it sounds hyperbolical, is psychologically true.
Ellicott's Commentary for English Readers

>>732396818
>rephrase
"Tao" is a word that is used to refer to the indescribable sum total of all things. To oversimplify it, there is only one thing in the universe, and all other things are parts of this one thing we call Tao. Not just all things that are, but all things that aren't, all things that might be, all things that can't be, and so on and so forth. It is a concept that cannot be accurately described because language functions by limiting. So instead of trying to bring the moon down to show you, we use a simple word to point to the idea, like a finger pointing to the moon.
I'm sorry if this isn't coming across very clearly. In the words of the Tao Te Ching:
"The moment one opens his mouth to speak of the Tao, he misses the mark entirely."

>>732385757
>2017
>Believing in fairytales written a long time ago to strike fear into the hearts of men and make them subservient

You are part of what's wrong with the world.

>>732398098
>It's folks like you that end up supporting limitations of rights for people because your fucking preacher/bishop/Pope told you to do it in the name of Jesus
All, I'm doing is preaching the gospel from the same book that gave the western world its views of morality. Also, it is no suppressing human rights. Christi died so you wouldn't have to do the works of the law. Also if you have time watch this
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=oss10S0GF78

Anyways, Thanks for joining. If there are any questions, you would like for me to answer then feel free to ask and I will answer to the best of my abilities.

>>732398298
Haha, thanks for joining. If there are any questions, you would like for me to answer then feel free to ask and I will answer to the best of my abilities.

>>732398536
>it is no suppressing human rights
Numbers 31:18

>>732398245
"Tao" is a word that is used to refer to the indescribable sum total of all things. To oversimplify it, there is only one thing in the universe, and all other things are parts of this one thing we call Tao. Not just all things that are, but all things that aren't, all things that might be, all things that can't be, and so on and so forth. It is a concept that cannot be accurately described because language functions by limiting. So instead of trying to bring the moon down to show you, we use a simple word to point to the idea, like a finger pointing to the moon.

Ok, if that's what you believe that's fine. But have you considered Christianity? I believe the Bible at times directly answers questions concerning things that you have brought up.

>>732398784
>Numbers 31:18
Read the next verse and you'll see that it is, in fact, is talking about Keep alive for yourselves young female captives that would be taken care of and washed. Bare in mind that this was in the context of war and so these women and children would most likely be left homeless and later on they would have been taken care of by the Israelites.

Why can't you accept the fact the humanity had blindly followed thousands of other Gods over millenia...and you think all of the others are wrong...and yours is right...and that those who worshipped the others God did so way before Christianity even existed?

>>732399354
So, I believe in Christianity because it is true and all those other religions have existed but died. Meanwhile, the message of the gospel has stayed and has only grown!

>>732396087
say there's a guy, grew up in some isolated tribe and never heard of this jesus guy, say he goes around sinning according to jesus, but according to him everything he's doing is all well and good, does he get barbecued after he bites it?

>>732398789
>have you considered Christianity?
Of course. But I have also considered the Erulian, the Erisian, the Buddha, the Witta, and so on and so forth.

I am reminded of the parable of a group of blind men who happen upon an elephant. One reaches out and finds the elephant's trunk and says "An elephant is like a snake." Another reaches out to find its tail and says "No, an elephant is more like a rope." Another reaches out to find its leg and says "No, an elephant is like a tree." Another reaches out to find its side and says "No, no, an elephant is like a wall." Each person is only able to perceive what is within their range. While this may seem like I'm putting myself above these men because I'm able to see the elephant, I am not. I am also a blind man standing a short distance away. I am not experiencing the feel of the trunk, the leg, the side, etc. I am only listening to the seemingly contradictory descriptions and understanding that what is truly there is so large that no one person can get a sense of what the elephant really is.

Christianity may be a strong leg to stand on, but I do not believe that the trunk and tail are a lie. I believe they are simply other sides of something much larger that you are only perceiving a portion of. Please understand, though that I do not presume to know what that thing is, I am merely using a word to refer to that which is beyond my grasp.

>>732399259
Read the lines before it, all the male children were killed, as were all the women who weren't virgins. The virgin girls were kept as slaves and/or wives, this was very, VERY far from philanthropy.

>>732399912
>say there's a guy, grew up in some isolated tribe and never heard of this jesus guy,
Ok

>say he goes around sinning according to jesus
Saying his name like it's nothing. That's god you're talking about not just some guy.

>but according to him everything he's doing is all well and good,
read>>732387478

>does he get barbequed after he bites it?
Most likely not.

hey, Christian here, this is by far the best Christianity thread i've seen. I've had Gd in my heart most of my life, and He's been with me in some of my darkest times, i'm no where close to doubting him. but one thing confuses me.
evolution.
The definition is constantly changing, and it's now such a blanket term that any Christian arguments are swept under the rug. evolution used to be largely based around macroevolution/ large changes between kinds. i.e, dinosaurs to birds. whereas now evolution encompasses adaptations as well, considering them to be "micro-evolution". essentially, "evolution" is now correct, at least half of it is.
I am confused.

>>732400180
Why not, how come he can sin and I can't without the eternal damnation?

>>732386771
Jesus the Zombie actually hung around for 40 days before flying into heaven.

>>732386916
This guy believes in Heaven and Hell. Ha ha ha ha.

>>732400042
>Of course.
Great, what did you think of it?

>But I have also considered the Erulian, the Parisian, the Buddha, the Witta, and so on and so forth.
I don't need to because I have found truth in Christ.

>parable of a group of blind men who happen upon an elephant.
Well, the thing is that the creator has revealed to me what the elephant is.

>but I do not believe that the trunk and tail are a lie. I believe they are simply other sides of something much larger that you are only perceiving a portion of.
I would disagree. I believe that Christianity is the whole truth and by believing in him, you have received eternal life! I mean if you actually read the bible you'd understand that there is no space for any other belief. You either believe in God fully or not. There is no in between

>>732388026
This is the most retarded explanation I think I could have read tonight. Lol

Just FYI, to everyone, the bible was not written FOR US. it was written to the people of the time, ESPECIALLY THE OLD TESTAMENT
when the Israelite's' were coming out of slavery, they didn't understand a lot of non-violent means. that's where the horrific slave keeping, seemingly barbaric "rules" came from.
think about how people used to throw their waste into the streets, and we find that disgusting because we have toilets nowadays. but back then it was normal.

>>732400543
It's a cop-out
The bible doesn't explicitly account for children who die without learning about jesus. It doesn't include any provisions for all those people who lived and died a million years before Abraham. All it says is that you can only get to heaven by accepting Jesus.

But people don't want a loving God who sends stillborn babies to hell, so they rationalize loopholes.

>>732400543
Sorry, I missed read what you said. He most likely will not go to heaven.

>>732400719
No, it was 3 days.
>>732400924
What did I say that made you feel this way?

>>732400254
I'm not too sure myself. But some Christians have tried to find ways to connect the two and make it fit into the bible narrative. How they do so I don't know but I think it's worth checking out.

>>732400176
>Kill every woman, &c.— Partly for punishment, as having, in general, either prostituted themselves to the Israelites, or some way been accessary in enticing them to idolatry, in which they were so confirmed that there was no hope of reclaiming them; and partly for prevention of the like mischief in future; for had they been saved alive, they would probably have continued to lead the Israelites into the sin of fornication, and have poisoned their minds by their superstitions. The female children were to be spared, because, being young, there was some hope they might be reformed from idolatry, and become proselytes to the true religion. These they might have as servants, or might marry them.
Benson Commentary

>>732401056
no, I'm talking about the lake of fire and brimstone and eternal suffering bit, how come he gets a pass?

>>732400970
>Or is God the God of Jews only? Is he not the God of Gentiles too? Yes, of Gentiles too,
Romans 3:29

>>732401706
Yes, most likely he will enter hell. But I'm not 100% sure meanwhile I feel as though there is more reason to believe that he will over not. You can ask why if you want.

>>732387327
Dude youre gettin some fucked up explanations here. In a nutshell this is why Jesus "died for our sins".

First you need to understand Jesus was a YOGI. He was a spiritual person (if he existed).

Now when you look at the time he was living in, people were fucking acting like we are acting now. We want money, we want fame, we want pussy, we do bad shit to please ourselves. These are the sins he is talking about.

So when he "dies" for us, he is merely being the example we need to see. By allowing himself to be killed even though he could have stopped it, he is allowing the living to see all this shit is fake. Worldy possessions and your ego and all of your desires are fucking bullshit. He is showing us, that death should be embraced because there is "more" out there then what people are literally killing and robbing eachother for.

Hes basically calling you a major faggot if youre into popular culture and ego. Sounds a lot like many people on social media.

Lastly the trinity is more of a representation to acknowledge these events. The trinity is considered one in the same. God is Jesus. And thru Jesus his Spirit was awakened. If you study the philipsophy of Jesus, the motherfucker was saying we are all God. We have the ability to be a messiah. We all have the holy spirit and once we realize this we too can defeat fear of death by living well and understanding why we as people are truly here.


Dont listen to these other faggots. Theyre brainwashed and molested by priests and just spit out bullshit because they still think religion is helpful. Or should be listened to. Or followed. If youre religious youre a fucking faggot. Shit is stupid. Jesus would agree.

>>732400924
When Jesus came to earth HE WAS NOT GOD.
he was human. but sinless.
(i know, i know, just bear with me.)
so, he was not immortal, he could feel pin and all that. and when he died on the cross, all of our sin was put INTO HIM, he took all of it upon himself, and heaven turned away from him. and he died. like a real human. but to show how Death had no hold on Him, or on us after his sacrifice, he rose again. if he had died and stayed dead would his followers have preached about him? they were literally sitting in a house worrying about being arrested before he came back.

>>732401056
Youre 100% wrong on the 3 days. He rose from the dead in 3 days. He stayed on Earth for 40 days as a fucking Zombie before he ascended into heaven.

And the reason Im mad is because youre a fucking idiot that thinks he knows what he is talking about. Your explanation is shit and I hope your first blowjob is from a priest.

>>732398113
so the takeaway is

prayer works, as long as you never expect a concrete real result to occur with any more than completely random frequency?

in the rest of the world, this is known as not working

seriously christfags like yourself make me sick

>>732402131
Wow youre a special kind of stupid.

>>732400884
>if you actually read the bible
What makes you think I haven't?
I've been contradicting you with bible verses the entire thread.
>the whole truth
It's riddled with contradictions, and it's known to be an edit of a translation of a translation. And newer versions edit it even further. Up until the 1970's, the version everyone used included a reference to Unicorns. Hebrew-speaking people who did the translation into Latin chose the latin word Monokeros (which is a Unicorn), but in the 1970's people who didn't even speak Hebrew natively decided that Oxen was a better choice *despite other verses including references to oxen translated from a wholly different Hebrew word* because people poked fun at the Unicorn reference.

Now, according to Jesus, the people who made that change are condemned to hell for changing the word of god. Do me a favor and turn to Job 39:9-12 and see which version of the "whole truth" you have.

>>732402035
Was this example bad? >>732388026 I was merely talking about the logic in it, but you went more into the purpose

>the motherfucker was saying we are all God. We have the ability to be a messiah.
Heresy and do you even know what you're talking about?

>>732401961
So you're saying God doomed everyone before the year 0 to eternal damnation with no recourse, this guy sounds like a real jerk.

Like, what's the point of that?

>>732402450
Yes. Horrible explanation. No logic at all. You seem very confused but more so influenced by an idiot greater then you.

Is God not omnipresent? Is God not in each of us? Come on man youre a fucking idiot. You know it and so does everyone else.

>>732402246
No, he was in the belly of the earth fro three days, and when he was resurrected, he appeared to his disciples, along with a whole host of other people, and ascended back into heaven. Where do you get this 40 day from?

And the reason I'm mad is because you're a >fucking idiot that thinks he knows what he is talking about. Your explanation is shit, and I hope your first blowjob is from a priest.
Wah??? Sorry, you feel that way, but I'm just doing what you're doing, interpreting text. But when I do it I'm a know it all, but when you do it, you're the good guy. Anyways, feel free to ask further questions.

>>732402736
>Yes. Horrible explanation. No logic at all.
How so?

>You seem very confused but more so influenced by an idiot greater than you.
Aside from the fact that you have just called God an idiot, you do admit that I do write these things are from God.

>Is God not omnipresent? Is God not in each of us? Come on man you're a fucking idiot. You know it, and so does everyone else.
Know what? Also, just because God is omnipotent doesn't mean that he is in all of us. If you're talking about the holy spirit, then he is in the elect IE believers.

What makes you so confident?

>>732402769
no, no, i do think he was here for 40 days...
>death
>day 1, 2, 3
>resurrection
>40 days
>ascension
i just double checked too.

>>732400970
>when the Israelite's' were coming out of slavery
That didn't actually happen, though.
Once they started clearing out the sand around the large pyramids everyone knows about and found all those smaller pyramids all around them and all the other buildings we found out just how obsessive ancient Egyptians were about writing down absolutely everything. And there is absolutely no mention of a large slave force of Hebrews, much less of one hebrew being promoted for interpreting a dream, running the whole country and answering only to the Pharaoh, a mass escape of slaves, none of that. And then there are the graves...

A lot of things change in a culture. Clothing styles, pottery, painting, architecture, etc. But one thing that hardly ever changes in any culture is the way we bury our dead. Your great-grandchildren are almost certainly going to be buried the same way as your great grandfather. And when archaeologists looked in the graves at the work camps around the pyramids, they did not find Hebrew graves. What's worse, when you look at graves in the Canaanite Valley from after the "Exodus", they're exactly the same as the graves from before the Exodus. So not only do you have to rationalize removing every trace of mention of the Israelites from Egyptian records (many of which are actually CARVED not written), you also have to rationalize these Israelites abandoning their own funeral practices, pottery, weaving, literally everything about their culture and exactly copying the Canaanites they wiped out.

The simple fact of the matter is that there is absolutely no archaeological evidence supporting the Exodus *except* the Bible itself.

>>732402710
In the Bible, there is no free will. The people who will enter into heaven and those who will enter hell have already been predestined. God deliberately creates people solely for hell to glorify himself and show them his wrath while saves some people to show his power and mercy. It's god's free will to do so.

>What then shall we say Is God unjust Absolutely not
Romans 9:14

This is in response to the fact that the Romans felt that God was being unfair with predestining some to hell while others to heaven without giving them a choice and in the next verse we get an answer.

>For He says to Moses I will have mercy on whom I have mercy and I will have compassion on whom I have compassion So then it does not depend on mans desire or effort but on Gods mercy
Romans 9:15-16

It's to glorify God that's why. Because when his decree comes to pass it shows his power and all of it. I preach a god centred bible and not a man centred one and so when I hear this I rejoice because it exalts god and man does not like this because shows man is weak and incapable yet we like taking control.

Hope that answered your question.

>>732402710
Had hyper religious parents and I asked them that when I was a kid
Dunno the verse but somewhere in the old testament it said there was a pseudo heaven called 'paradise' that was in a sorta limbo between heaven and hell
It was like a really nice afterlife resort for peeps to crash at and enjoy a luxurious existence until heaven was opened for erebody

>>732401630
>executed for prostitution
>executed for idolatry
>executed to prevent mischief
>not suppressing human rights
Are you Josef Stalin?
Because I think you're Josef Stalin.

>>732385757
Jesus is not God
During the transfiguration, God said, "This is my son, in whom I am well pleased".

Not, "Hey look at me, I pleasured myself".

You have Gods own word that Jesus was not God.

>>732403260
wow what a fag

both you
and god

do you ever sit and wonder "why do i pour so much mental energy into resolving contradictions in a translation of a translation of a translation of a fairytale written a long time ago over thousands of years?"

>>732402769

https://billygraham.org/answer/why-did-jesus-stay-around-for-40-days-after-he-came-back-from-the-grave-instead-of-going-immediately-into-heaven/


http://www1.cbn.com/churchandministry/what-did-jesus-do-those-40-days

https://christianrenewal.wordpress.com/articles/the-forty-days-of-easter/

There ya go faggot. Youre just an idiot and your interpretations are fucking garbage.

So my question for you is, how does it feel to know youre a fucking idiot?

>>732402289
What you pray for is a sign of where your heart is. If you pray for riches and the abilities to move mountains and what not then you haven't truly understood the gospel and are still worldly. Those things the Bible talks about are metaphors and are rather are a sign of faith. By faith, we trust in God that he will give us what we pray for, if it is sincerely for good and to exalt God, and it will be done so. Moving a mountain doesn't do anything but make people wonder.

>>732403588
He thought he was in the belly of the earth lol

>>732403422
Do you even Holy Trinity, faggot

>>732403562
It's OK anon. We don't have to believe the same things. I won't get butthurt over a difference of opinion.

>>732403719
Ha ha ha. Preach my nigga.

>>732403729
this entire thread is a testament to your butthurt and commitment to self-delusion

peace out

The real question is what the hell are christians doing on a porn infested board

So you all dont even know about the 40 days after death Zombie Jesus was walking around. Lol. Also bet you dont know about the lost gospels. The one according to Judas talks about space and demi gods. Hmmmm i wonder why that shit didnt make it in. Most of you is why religion is bad. Spitting out shit to pet ur own ego.

>>732404079
Porn isnt a sin dummy.

>>732404079
hes here for the trap threads

posting itt between tearful fap sessions

>>732402433
>What makes you think I haven't?
>I've been contradicting you with bible verses the entire thread.
Well, you haven't really brought up any Bible verses.

>It's riddled with contradictions
Now we're getting interesting.

>and it's known to be an edit of a translation of a translation
Nope, this thinking comes from a fallacious way of thinking and a misunderstanding of how the original NT was transmitted.

>Hebrew-speaking people who did the translation into Latin chose the Latin word Monokeros (which is a Unicorn),
You're talking about the KJV Bible, which is the only Bible that translates it like so. If you're entire argument relies on one Bible translation then just read another.

>Now, according to Jesus, the people who made that change are condemned to hell for changing the word of God. Do me a favour and turn to Job 39:9-12 and see which version of the "whole truth" you have.
The ESV, which translates it better, calls it an OX. Feel free to ask further questions.

>>732403205
Can you provide the verse, please?

>>732403719
Sure - but all three are separate entities; not an amalgamation to satisfy men's lust for power. My God does not have to be artificially amped up.

Just as I believe there is no exception to the commandment, "thou shalt not kill". No military service exception whatsoever. The exception was created by men who want other people to sin so they could keep their high positions.

Jesus was very clear - you do not do violence against others. Turn the other cheek, give them your cloak as well, forgive your enemies, treat them as brothers. There's no exceptions.

>>732404222
Guess who NEVER read the bible... a dude named Jesus.

>>732404222
the bible isnt a source!

its a storybook!
an influential storybook, but still a storybook
a relic from a time when humanity as a whole was capable of acquiring less knowledge

>>732404279
Starting to question all the shit youve been "taught" lol

http://biblehub.com/acts/1-3.htm

>>732403389
Also, it was during a time of war and if those things were left to happen it would have lead to a much worse punishment in the hereafter.

>>732403260
lol "Fuck you, that's why", yeah that's a good one

so what was it exactly that made you decide your religion was definitely the right one?

>>732404298
powerful concepts anon thanks for sharing, Im glad to hear someone who doesn't take exception to those particular words of Jesus

Im not christian but really respect his teachings

>>732403422
If you understood the trinity then you wouldn't ask that question. Also read Philippians 2:6-11

Love destroying the shit "christians" are taught.

>>732403588
I haven't got time just give me the verse that says so. There are a lot of questions I have to answer here. Pardon my impatience but I will read in due time.

>>732403282
So everyone got to paradise until jesus came along and laid down the rules? sounds like he fucked over a lot of people

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>>732404079
So you can be saved!

>>732404640
Just gave it to you. Acts 1:3

Stop answering questions. Youre fucking wrong. Maybe ask some questions. Learn something.

>>732404690
Stop thinking logical and just accept. Lol

>>732404139
>So you all dont even know about the 40 days after death Zombie Jesus was walking around.
If you can't even provide a scrpture why should I believe in it?

>Also bet you dont know about the lost gospels. The one according to Judas
heard of it and it's bs.

>>732404832
Acts 1:3 jesus christ youre a fucking idiot.

>>732404467
I looked at all the things the Catholic church did in the name of Jesus and renounced Christianity.

Then I found the Buddha's teachings. Which taught me to be intellectually honest. Not to delude myself. Then I came across the phrase "while on the path to heaven, if the buddha stands in your way, kill him and continue on". Or something like that.

The meaning struck me hard. All this time I had judged Christianity by the acts of other Christians, and not by the teachings of Jesus himself. I let the Catholic Church to stand in my way. I "killed it" by forgiving all the things the churches had done.

It took the teachings of the buddha to restore my faith in Christ.

>>732404832
Also you dont even know the normal scriptures and youre interpretations are very far off. I wouldnt expect you to understand anything more then what mommy and daddy tell u.

>>732405035
Dude Jesus was another Buddha. Buddha is a title not an entity. He was literally buddha. Religion is fucking garbage. Buddhism is the true way.

>>732404314
Ok, I get what you're doing. You see the thing is that Jesus knew it better than anyone. He was a walking version of the Bible. Also, he did. He read the old testament; we know this because when he was 13, he was in the synagogue surprising the people with his knowledge. Also, the gospels are a story and teaching of his life, and the rest are interpretations of his teachings.

>>732404534
Paul and Peter wrote many things that were their opinions... opinions that contradict the teachings of Jesus himself.
Jesus never said he was God. God never said Jesus was God. Who are you going to believe? The masters or the servants?

>>732405207
So then he read the Torah dumbass. Yorue so fucking stupid it hurts to know it just doesnt end with you.

>>732404381
Like the way, you didn't respond to my points. Also, I do believe that it has been preserved and I can give proof if you wish.

>>732404832
the bigger question is
why should you believe things in scripture?

>>732404820
Yes stop thinking and just believe...everything will be perfect if you just never question anything ever and just trust that some higher power has you safe and sound in his hands..............

>>732405207
Wow to think everything was written anout Jesus was kept in perfect condition. Good thing they didnt leave out a TON of testmonials by his closest followers. Gtfoh with your garbage shit.

>>732405435
Well i wasnt gonna drink and drive tonight but im leaving my faith in God. I mean it is his will. Hey God grab the wheel!

>>732405155
There are a great many parallels in the teachings of the two.
Even now, I like to say Jesus is my savior while Buddha is my favorite philosopher.
They essentially taught the same thing.


>>732405485
Politicking started almost immediately after his death. Same thing happened with the Buddha. Today, half the Buddhists claim he was deity when Buddha himself denied it his whole life.

>>732404463
It's history, philosophy and the person of christ himself.

>>732405038
>youre interpretations are very far off
How so?

>>732385757
>One enters into heaven through faith alone

Wrong

> What does it profit, my brethren, if someone says he has faith but does not have works? Can faith save him?

Do you even bible?

>>732405685
Well the original Buddha was Siddhartha Guatema. He was a prince that gave up all his worldly possessions. Buddha refers to Siddharta as the guru but Buddha is the enlightened one. You can be fucking Buddha just like you can be God. Its within. He just need to learn to access it.

>>732405832
Go read all the stupid shit you wrote just now.

>>732405291
you mean peter the disciple?

>opinions that contradict the teachings of Jesus himself
No they don't

>Jesus never said he was God.
>And Jesus said, “I am, and you will see the Son of Man seated at the right hand of Power, and coming with the clouds of heaven.”
Mark 14:62

>>732405318
I have!

>>732405423
Because it has been revealed to you by God himself.

>>732406009
Jesus hates you.

>>732405485
>Wow to think everything was written anout Jesus was kept in perfect condition.
IKR!

>Good thing they didnt leave out a TON of testmonials by his closest followers.
Have you got any evidence otherwise?

>>732405771
could you explain? lots of things have a history, a philosophy and a person, seems like pretty weak justification

>>732405841
Good question! I deliberately not include the answer so that people can ask this question and I can respond to it. The reason why I do this is because I believe that through conversation and effective questioning it can cause you to think deeper about the truth of the gospel. Ok, I'll begin.

Yes, we are saved by faith alone apart from works. This is an undeniable truth of scripture Jut look at this verse from Romans in the Bible

>For we maintain that a person is justified by faith apart from the works of the law.
Romans 3:28

But then this make one wonder. Doesn't this contradict James?

>You see that a person is justified by works and not by faith alone.
James 2:24

But what one must first understand is that there are two kinds of faith. One is false faith, the type that even the devil has, then there's true faith; the type that brings forth good fruits IE proof of it's existence by doing good works. A better verse to understand this would be on James as well.

>https://www.biblegateway.com/passage/?search=james+2:14-20
James 2:14-20

So what does this tell us? It says that if you have faith but it does not bring good fruits then it is false. A truly saved man will do good works not to get something out of God since his heavenly place has been set for him since he has been saved by the blood of Christ but rather that we do it out of love. You treat your children nicely out of love not to seem good to them, and so we do the same for god. We love God and so try to please him. Theoretically, you could be saved and go out on a murder spree, but you wouldn't do that due to your love of God.

Hope that answered your question.

>>732405978
Can't, give me an example and I'll try to clarify.

>>732406068
Nice answer anon, wowzers you really got me there!

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>>732385757

How could you believe in a god who demands your soul as payment for creating you.. requiring you to offer it via ritual drowning where this creator "saves" you by stealing your soul? If a creator did indeed give you life and already has possession of such soul.. where is the need to give it? Why must you worship this deity? Why does this deity demand that you devote your existence even beyond death to worshiping it? Have you considered that you are actually part of a demon worshiping cult? .. cuz das what it sounds like to me.. have fun with jesus!

>>732405841
Even faith and works are not enough if you don't do it for the right reasons.

Doing right for some reward - earthly or heavenly - is not acceptable. Only doing right because it's right is acceptable. Thus, if you're doing right works with heaven in mind, you will not enter heaven. Only those who do right because it's the right thing to do get rewarded.

>>732404222
>you haven't really brought up any Bible verses.
>>732398784
Numbers 31:18
>>732402433
Job 39:9-12
>>732393745
>>732391750
Revelation 20:15
>>732390532
Isaiah 45:7
>>732387844
i don't feel like looking up the number.
good wine, and it's late at night

I *have* been bringing up bible verses in almost every post I made before I started attempting to explain Taoism.
>>732404222
>a fallacious way of thinking and a misunderstanding of how the original NT was transmitted.
The gospels were presented solely by one person: Flavius Josephus. And you want to talk about fallacious you should start there. Not to mention that
>how the original was transmitted
Is *before* the translations that led to the King James that you're probably holding up as the whole truth (lol what is Vulgate?). The "original" was a shitload of different texts that varied from monastery to monastery prior to the canonization. Tons of material was thrown out on conspicuously arbitrary qualifiers like "if it didn't agree with church dogma at the time, Jesus probably really did say it" and other such weirdness. There wasn't an "original" New Testament, there was a condensed version that threw out whatever it didn't like. Then there was bullshit like the Sixtine version and Sixtus mandating everyone in the church change their own materials to match his version of the Vulgate, which was summarily thrown out right after he died. Don't even get me started on the NIV.

>>732404832
>Zombie Jesus
He wasn't a zombie, he was a Lich.

paul, the first extant christian writer, never heard of the walking, talking christ the gospels witness
the writer of the epistle to the hebrews, as late as 90 a.d., never heard of walking, talking jesus
john of patmos never heard of that jesus
in the 2nd century, justin martyr and minucius felix denied that walking, talking christ and did not know of the gospels
the gospel of mark was written around 140 and the others followed

>>732406170
Well, first off the resurrection accounts itself pass the criteria of embarrassment. This gives evidence for the resurrection. Also, the place where Jesus was buried was in a tomb, which was later found to be empty. This also gives evidence for the resurrection because how else would his body have disappeared. Also, the idea that the original followers of Christ might have lied about the whole thing is just thrown out the water by the fact that they were willing to die for it. Now would you die for a "know" lie?

>>732385757

>what is the gospel

The Gospel is 4 books written around 100AD about a fictionalized character named Jesus. If a real life version of Jesus did at one time exist, the writers of the Gospels (who fan-fic'd themselves into the story) would not have been born yet at the time Jesus lived.

>>732406336
Nearly everyone misunderstands the response Jesus gave the Publicans.
>"render unto Ceasar that which belongs to Ceasar".

It's a brilliant answer. He said it knowing they would not understand.
What part of that coin belonged to Ceasar? The gold? God created it. The fire that forged the coin? God owned the wood that burned. God created heat. God created fire. The tools that pounded coin? All made of materials God created. The man who made the coin? God created his soul and his body. Perhaps the face on the coin? God created Ceasar and his face.
Absolutely nothing whatsoever does not belong to God. Nothing of the coin nor anything about it belongs to Caesar. Caesar himself belonged to God. Everything Caesar created belonged to God.

Even to this day, people do not understand the brilliance of his response. And in their ignorant misunderstanding, they let Jesus live.

http://www.omhksea.org/2012/03/the-blessed-state-a-homily-by-saint-symeon-the-new-theologian/

Just a nice little short read pertaining on how to become accepted into the kingdom of heaven.

>>732406590
>you haven't really brought up any Bible verses.
I have too and much more. Look at my posts
here:

>>732387100
here
>>732388525
here
>>732387478
And other places I can't be asked to post

>The Gospels were presented solely by one person: Flavius Josephus. And you want to talk about fallacious you should start there. Not to mention that
A misunderstanding. He just gives us a non-biblical account for Christ. If you read 1 Corinthians, which is dated to the year 50, which is also the time when Paul wrote, so we know without a doubt that it was written by Paul. 1 Corinthians is even earlier than Josephus's writings and so gives us a much earlier view of what was being preached.

I will make a cont to answer your other points

>>732406590
>Is *before* the translations that led to the King James that you're probably holding up as the whole truth (lol what is Vulgate?).
Are you assuming I am a kj onlyist? Well, I'm not. The thing is the kjv is a very well translated bible, which gets its translations from William Tyndale, which is why they're so similar. But despite this, it does lack in the places.

>>732407340
>dated to the year 50, which is also the time when Paul
according to Flavius Josephus
>we know without a doubt
lololol
Literally no one but Flavius Josephus ever saw those scrolls (if they even existed). He only handed over his "translations" to the Roman general who didn't kill him because Josephus claimed he had a prophecy that this general would be emperor one day.

Dude was a con man, and a damn good one. Regardless of what you may choose to believe, there is absolutely, positively, inarguably, ZERO physical evidence that a scroll written by Paul in 50 AD ever existed. You have nothing but Flavius Josephus's word on the matter.

>>732385757
nigger nigger nigger nigger nigger nigger nigger nigger nigger nigger nigger nigger nigger nigger nigger nigger nigger nigger nigger nigger nigger nigger nigger nigger nigger nigger nigger nigger nigger nigger nigger nigger nigger nigger nigger nigger nigger nigger nigger nigger nigger nigger nigger nigger nigger nigger nigger nigger nigger nigger nigger nigger nigger nigger nigger nigger nigger nigger nigger nigger nigger nigger nigger nigger nigger nigger nigger nigger nigger nigger nigger nigger nigger nigger nigger nigger nigger nigger nigger nigger nigger nigger nigger nigger nigger nigger nigger nigger nigger nigger nigger nigger nigger nigger nigger nigger nigger nigger nigger nigger nigger nigger nigger nigger nigger nigger nigger nigger nigger nigger nigger nigger nigger nigger nigger nigger nigger nigger nigger nigger nigger nigger nigger nigger nigger nigger nigger nigger nigger nigger nigger nigger

>>732406754
an empty hole, are you serious?

>Well, first off the resurrection accounts itself pass the criteria of embarrassment. This gives evidence for the resurrection.
you're gonna have to run that one by me again

>Now would you die for a "know" lie?
I dunno man, ask Jim Jones and the kool-aid brigade, people die for stupid shit all the time

>>732406754
>This also gives evidence for the resurrection because how else would his body have disappeared
The ashes of former Gwar frontman Oderus Urungus went missing, too.
Guess that makes him the messiah.

Because it's not like anyone with a cult following might have cult followers crazy enough to want to steal their corpse or anything. That's physically impossible, so it MUST be divine resurrection.

>>732406981
I took that another way. It was the picture on the coin, not the crops or the labor of the people, that belonged to Caesar. Jesus specifically asked whose picture was on the coin.
To me, the double meaning of the response "Render unto Caesar that which is Caesar's" could be heard by people who wanted Jesus to say "you should pay taxes" as "give Caesar money if he asks for it" but could also be heard by people who thought the tax was unfair as "Your work is your own, it is not Caesar's".

ITT: Idiots that believe in flying Zombies.

>>732409084
Lich, not zombie.

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Fucking christfags.

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>>732385757
The gospel is, in a literal sense, the afterlife mythology of Bronze Age goatherds.