There is no moral argument for abortion because attempting to

>>732246730
in the early stages of the embryo's development, it is far from being a creature, it is just a random piece of tissue. Pro life faggots argue that it it not a piece of tissue but a living thing but the fact is that it is as living as your fucking toe nails and you don't hesitate when cutting those fuckers off are you?

>>732247295
That ''piece of tissue'' is guaranteed to turn into a fully grown human being if left alone the way nature intended it to be. Your toenail won't.

>>732246730
Too many unwanted people already in the world

>>732246730
Abortion should only be allowed in cases of rape, incest, or if the mother's life is in danger. There is no other reason to permit it. Birth control is available at free clinics. Women can be on the pill AND carry condoms at the SAME TIME. They can refuse to fuck guys who won't wear a rubber, their dry dicks will be the best argument to change their behavior. And if sexual assault happens, hey guess what? YOU'RE ON THE PILL ANYWAY. And if you're still nervous, get Plan B.

>oh but preferred method, so expensive, gibs me!
I prefer to rive a fucking Bentley, that doesn't mean I'm entitled to be provided with one.

>>732247458
your sperm might turn into a human as well, keep them alive from now save them in your fridge

>>732247295
In the eyes of the law that means nothing, a pregnant woman hit by a drunk driver is still 2 counts of manslaughter.

>>732247295
Shitty argument what you cut off your toenail is already dead.

>>732247458
no its not, miscarriage is still a thing.

I don't give a fuck about justifications behind abortion. I want the ability to. You could call the zygote or the blastocyte "GODS SOULS" if you want to, and i'd still vote to let us abort them.

If you required us to press a button which said "KILL GODS DREAMS" to initiate the abortion, i would hammer the button before the doctor finished explaining it to me.

>>732247584
No, your sperm won't turn into a human being, neither will an unfertilized egg.

A fetus is a growing human being, and its something every human has to go through. Its life.

>>732246730
so u dont care a baby might be born retarded and has to live that way, whooptie fucking do! great you gave birth to a plant. now water it and place it in the sun.

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>>732246730
On one hand I'm for abortion because it kills kids but on the other hand I'm against it because it gives women a choice.

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Look into this baby's eyes and tell me abortion isn't murder you sick liberal fucks.

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>>732247815
nice one.

The majority of fertilized eggs never implant in the uterus. Thus, if they are fully human, the vast majority of people who ever lived died hours after they came into existence. Neither nature nor God seem to give a shit about fertilized eggs.

>>732247597
not in most states.

oh boy, looks like my daughter got raped by her own uncle but I guess she has to keep the kid because muh souls.

>>732246730
So what's your answer for cases of incest, rape, and the whole destroying the world by using up our limited resources with overpopulation?

>>732247734
it is a living cell that is 50% of a human, it will indeed turn into a human if you allow it to go through its natural process of fertilizing an egg.

>>732247734
so what though? its a less valuable human being until its been born.

>>732247947
This.

>>732246730
i wish op was aborted

>>732247734
It may be life but it's dependent on a parasitic relationship with another human being and that person can choose to terminate it. Women should have this right I just hope they use it with extreme care.

>>732246730
Not raping every women you see is preventing a lot of children to be born.

>>732247619
no it's not dead, it is just tissue made up by other biomolecules, α-keratin for example. How would you otherwise explain the continuous growth?

This is your daily reminder that all people who think life begins at conception MUST also think that miscarriage is either homicide or suicide.
If homicide, then the mother should be imprisoned. If suicide, then the baby GOES STRAIGHT TO HELL.

We are superior to a baby. Of course we can kill it.

>>732247947
so much this

>>732248139
I'm pro choice, but this is fucking stupid.

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>>732248127
Implying OP can perform to impregnate a woman

>>732248136
The same as hair it grows from your finger out just as hair grows from the scalp outward learn to biology

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>>732246730

>>732248203
Nope - it's a consequence of their decision to believe personhood begins at conception

>>732247845
Exactly. We need the government's support to help make sure that every egg of a woman's is fertilized with sperm. Now I know male sperm far out numbers female eggs but that is just how nature is. All we can do is give each sperm a chance on a female egg.
Maybe someday we'll have the technology to harvest every female's eggs and fertilize them there for making sure we save as many people as we can.
WHO IS WITH ME!?

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Thank you mom

Don't like abortions? Don't have one.

If women want to abort/remove/murder the pregnancy/tumor/child let them. Or you can wait and let them have the kid then come howling at you in court for child support.

Personally, I'm all for murdering babies.

>>732246730
When person starts being productive to society. That's when they are a human. Everything until then is an investment into their humanity.

A fetus is barely any investment at all.

>>732246730
You are no better than fetus. Basically worthless

Your words

>>732247734
So, because something has the potential for life, letting it live is ALWAYS the best option?
What if child birth would kill the mother (the person who is conscious with many people who are emotionally attached to her who would also suffer from her passing)
Or what about the underage girl who was raped and will now have to live with supporting the child of her attacker while she drops out of highschool from all of the emotional trauma and they both end up living off food stamps

>>732248290
Hahaha

>>732247815
kek

>>732248292
So is a heart attack suicide or murder then

>>732248362
By that standard, we should be able to kill kids as old as 12 or 15

>>732248292
Even if a fetus is human, miscarriage is usually just death by natural causes.

If you kill a fetus that a woman intended to carry to birth, it is already considered homicide in most places. The idea that a fetus can commit suicide makes my teeth itch.

>>732248356
*fap fap fap fap fap*

>>732246730
Abortion
easier than pretending to give a shit about poor people

>>732248424
Babies don't have heart attacks

>>732248462
How many 4 year olds do you know die of natural causes?

>>732248356
Fake

MISCARRIAGE IS MURDER

ARREST ALL WOMEN!!

>>732246730
>Any questions?
Does human life have inherent value?

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>>732246730
Any questions?

>>732246730
Yeah, so the thing that looks like to two testicles in a sack viewed in cross section and below is human? Kys, it's a Zygote, which I know is a big word for a retard like you OP, but basically it means you're wrong. Scientifically wrong. Later motherfucker, it's not human until the bottom right one, that's the truth, and you can't deal with it.

>>732246730
I'll give you the best argument that I'm aware of.

If you were, today, diagnosed with liver failure, do you think your mother should be forced to give you part of hers? Is that legally or morally alright?
If you no, then why do you want to give a fetus more rights than an adult person? Why should a women be forced to use her body as an incubator for an otherwise non-viable unborn child?

>>732246730
>would require you to become an arbiter of life
Life isn't life unless it can live on its own.

deeply religious people don't want their older loved ones on life support for this same reason. Or partake in any type of medical treatments.

if youre that type of religious ylu should be able to pull the fetus out of the womb. if it lives, its gods will. if it dies, god wills it.

>>732248555
>Babies don't have heart attacks
Um yes they do

>>732248561
It could be suicide.

If the mothers body rejects the baby while it still lives. It is manslaughter. If the mother did nothing wrong, it's called involuntary manslaughter. If the mother did something wrong, it's murder.

If the baby dies all on its own, we call that suicide.

If a fetus is not life, then it's property. In that case, the creators of that property have rights to it and one creator cannot destroy the property with out consent or compensating the other creator.

>>732248699
not naturally

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>>732247845
Ok abortion isn't murder.

>>732247546
Why should abortion be legal in the case of rape or incest? It's not the babies fault it was conceived under these situations. Why murder it?

>>732248284
Yeah sure but why does the direction matter? The point is that both are growing from your body and you should be able to chose what things grow from you and what does not. Also, could you please start using interpunctuation? Learn how to English.

>>732248777
Yes they do

>>732246730
>because attempting to make an argument would require you to become an arbiter of life and death

except for the fact that, legally, we are entitled to be such an arbiter when our own self agency is involved.

you can refuse to donate blood even if it will save lives. you can refuse to be an organ donor and they can't take your organs even if they would save lives. you can choose to abort a fetus even if it would otherwise save a life.

>>732247458
This is what it always comes down to. The difference between an embryo and a housefly, which is more complex, or between an embryo and any random piece of tissue that you would not hesitate to remove from yourself, which is just as human, is what an embryo has the potential to be. Not what it is. What it could be. By destroying an embryo, you are denying a human being a chance at life and that's what's immoral about it.

Next time you see a breeding age woman who you think you are physically capable of raping, if you choose not to force yourself on her you are denying a potential human being their chance at life. That's a real human person that could have existed, and now won't because of you. How do you feel about that?

>>732248645
So we should kill or let die people who are on heart/lung machines? Outlaw dialysis? Kill elderly who can not longer take care of themselves?

>>732248794
For incest, the chances of it having issues in development skyrocket

>>732248777

All a heart attack is, is a blood vessel that supplies the heart gets blocked, and the part of the heart is oxygen deprived or dies. After a baby's heart is large enough to require blood vessels, it is possible for a blood clot to occur in it, and for the baby to have a heart attack.

>>732248848
Once you start correcting grammar you've lost the argument

black people have >50% of the abortions anyway

Not surprised that your lobby isn't interested in helping out inner city families

>>732247989
That's outdated, there's no such thing as overpopulation in a country like the US.

There's more than enough land and we throw enough food to feed hundreds of millions of people.

Now to the point, abortion in the early stages is fine, not the ideal solution which is not getting pregnant but better than having an unwanted baby.

Something like three-four months may be arbitrary but most people will agree.

>>732246730
I'm going to summarize about 5 philosophers, 3 sociologists, and 2 psychiatrists here:

1) In legal terms, a pro-abortion stand imposes on no individual making a choice, whereas an anti-abortion stand imposes on all.

2) The "abortion" is an interruption of a natural cycle of a human life. If you argue AGAINST abortion, YOU MUST stand against condoms, contraceptives, and sex that isn't intended for procreation (anal, oral, etc), as those also interrupt the natural cycle of human life.

3) if you value "conception", that is, when the sperm meets the egg, you must be able to explain the worth of conception as greater than the worth of individual sperm and egg pre-conception. Chronologically, there is no such argument that is logic.

4) unless you're willing to classify sex as a means for procreation ONLY, your argument ultimately falls short on a position anti-abortion.

So, there are no realistic "right or wrong" in abortion. Nobody wants an abortion electively for its own sake.

I do find it extremely hypocritical that arguing against abortion solves absolutely nothing. Feel free to correct me on that point with statistics or the positive aspects of greater human population in contemporary society.

>>732248856
Prove it.
Prove that babies naturally have heart attacks.
And show me the percentage of these heart attack cases vs. all miscarriages.

>>732246730
>arbiter of life and death
The only on who should be able to be this is the mother then later in life, maybe the father (if becomes faggot or coal burner).

In nature, patent apes kill their disfigured, mutated babies all the time. If it can't even climb well - dead.

Its also our nature to do the same. Only recently have we come into the "caring age" or whatever the fuck were in right now. No one should be able to have an opinion of abortion until they have a retarded child to care for.

Until then, shut your faggoty fuck mouths.

>>732248926
I primarily answered your argument and THEN I corrected your grammar. Two birds one stone faggot

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>>732247815

>>732248921
see >>732249017
Show me how many miscarriages happen by heart attack as a percentage of all miscarriages.

>>732247458
>guaranteed
>what is miscarriage
>what is disease
>what is disabled
>what is autism, oh wait, I have that.

>>732249017
http://www.heart.org/HEARTORG/Conditions/CongenitalHeartDefects/SymptomsDiagnosisofCongenitalHeartDefects/Fetal-Echocardiography-Your-Unborn-Babys-Heart_UCM_315640_Article.jsp#mainContent

>>732248877
No i was making the point religious people are cruel in that they don't want life support. Why can't they apply the same logic to births? If it can't sustain itself without the help of someone or something else (in terms of just living) why do we have to keep it alive? If they already feel this way about elderly and sick?

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>>732249091

>>732248988
lol, this is 4chan, not the online component of a class at your liberal arts college.

>>732249125

It doesn't necessarily cause miscarriage. Heart attack just means the heart suffers some trauma. Sometimes a heart attack kills too much of the heart, and your heart does fail, but other times a heart attack can be so mild that you don't even notice it.

>>732247295
Your body is made up of random pieces of tissue, does that mean its right to kill you? no

>>732246730
It's wrong to force someone to go thru pregnancy. Maybe you crazy pro lifers could put your money where your mouth is and help both the mother and child by finding a way to support life in an artificial womb. Turn abortions into transfers. But that would require science and thinking

>>732249148
Says nothing about fetal heart attacks.
Still no percentage given.

>>732249219
I'm talking about miscarriage. It's either homicide or suicide. Either the mother killed the baby or the baby killed itself. Still no word on how often unborn babies die by heart attack.

>>732249200
You don't seem to have anything to add yet I am the one who lost? If it makes you feel secure then sure, whatever floats your boat

>>732249037
So we should abort the baby because it's going to be retarded? Should we also have a mandatory Alzheimer's test for the elderly so we can kill them too when they become a burden?

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>>732249312
Obvious moron is obvious

>>732249312

A fetus wouldn't die from a heart attack. Even if it killed the whole heart. But they would be nonviable upon delivery.

>>732247458
Sperm has the ability to turn into a human but you waste those fucks by the bucketload. If a women wanted to get rid of it while it's still just tissue why the fuck not? It's not like you were going to take care of a kid some woman doesn't want

>>732246730
Cracks me up that most people who are vehemently against abortion are also pro death penalty...

Good argument in favour of abortion - i dont wanna be a dad

>>732249245
Random pieces of tissue cooperating to form a sentient being, so no there is a difference

>>732249419
yea.

>>732246730
>become an arbiter of life and death
I guess you're a vegan then ? Or just one of these anthropocentered faggot ? I'd rather let people decide if they can raise a child, wich IS a form of superiority that implies worst stuff than painless death.

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>>732249334
You lost its over get over it

>>732247636
Kek

>>732247522
>>>>>/pol/

>>732247546
Even with ALL possible birth control you still can be pregnant, nothing is 100% safe

>>732249245
If those pieces of tissue couldn't live on its own (without life supoort) many people against abortion, or crying abortion is murder, in the same sentence, will say those shouldn't live as well.

>>732249541
even abstinence isnt safe.

>>732246730
If you've never adopted then you don't really care about pro life and saving babies

I approve of abortion for the same reason I'm against mass immigration and/or open boarders: keeps the population down sized.

>>732249256
It's wrong to force me to work.
It's wrong to force me to pay taxes.
It's wrong to quarantine me becasue I have a contagious disease.

Look... there are so many contraceptive choices these days that if you don't want to get pregnant, you can avoid it.

>>732247711
You must be a virgin

>>732249448
But the assumption is that life begins at conception. Thus, the baby is alive before birth.
Given this assumption, your argument makes no sense whatsoever.
Alive but nonviable? That's a very very small percentage of all miscarriages, anon.

>>732249630
Only abstinence is safe, but you don't want It, do you?

>>732249507
But why though? You just labled it as a loss with no actual reason. The winner in an argument is the one who makes the other one run out of arguments, not the one who think they won because their argument seemed superior to them. If that would be the case, no one would loose an argument and arguments would be worthless in the first place

>>732248356
AYY LMAO

>>732249460
>Cracks me up that most people who are vehemently against abortion are also pro death penalty...
learn the difference between an innocent life and a criminal life.

>>732247546
Not everyone is physically able to take the pill, plus it does have a lot of side effects.
What about cases where the mental health of the mother is likely to be severely adversely effected?
Is it not better that a drug addicted hooker go ajd get an abortion - rather than that kid being born into the shittest life ever or thrown into the overcrowded adoption system?

>>732246730
Wise were the Romans who reserved for themselves the power of life and death over their children and could kill them any time they wanted. If even your parents, who are manipulated by nature to love you, want you to die, you'd better die.

>>732249737
lol no if abstinence was safe then how did my wife get pregnant?

>>732246730
So I guess you don't need guns then, because shooting someone would require you to become an arbiter of life and death.

>>732247815
Kek hard

b8

>>732248969
this is another aspect of pro life that i don't understand.

they tend to be evangelicals, who are also some of the most racist americans, yet they neglect the fact that abortions are mostly done by minorities and have been proven to be the direct cause of a sharp drop in crime rates ever since ~18 years after roe v wade was put on the books.

what if I just really want to know what its like to murder a baby? can I have one then?

>>732249769
>you shall not kill
>dont worship other gods
you cant make this decision, its god's choice. you arent god, are you?

>>732249773
nah man you gotta be a moralfag and post about how abortions are wrong from his parents basement where his parents wished that they would have gone through with one of their own :>

>>732246730
Truth

>>732246730
Moral argument that doesn't involve supreme arbitration: All humans suffer, ending the suffering is all we want. Abortion compacts the suffering process into a medical appointment.

>>732247845

Such a cute baby!

Isn't it time the law was changed so that kicking a man in his testicles should be considered child abuse?

>>732246730
>arbiter of life and death

We already are. We swat flies, we eat meat and every time we wash our hands, billions of bacteria meet their demise. But for some reason, humans are sooo fucking sacred. Yeah, we are smart, whoopty fucking doo.

You have to be a religious nutjob to believe that human life has any objective value at all. The only value we can have is subjective and imprinted by the people around us. A fetus only has value to its parents, who if they want to abort, considers it worthless, and nothing of value was lost.

Let God drown in his tears, fucker deserves it.

>>732248978
So... the current system is fine?

>>732246730
Am I murdering billions upon billions whenever I jack off then? Or are sperm only 1/2 people? Blacks used to be 3/5's of a person so... RACIST. YOU'RE A FUCKING SPERMIST YOU SON OF A BITCH.

>>732249773
>Not everyone is physically able to take the pill, plus it does have a lot of side effects.
Condoms, implants, etc...
>What about cases where the mental health of the mother is likely to be severely adversely effected?
Same argument about caring for the elderly. The stress of taking care of an Alzheimer's parent is unbelievable. Should just kill them to avoid that burden, right?
>Is it not better that a drug addicted hooker go ajd get an abortion - rather than that kid being born into the shittest life ever or thrown into the overcrowded adoption system?
Should kill all the kids born to poor parents and bor in a ghetto, right. They're just going to have a shitty life. Not their (or the baby's) fault that they have to die.

>>732247458
Yeah, in the womb, they are left alone...
Wait how

>>732249818
One of two ways. Either immaculate conception, or...

>>732249931
who even said I was religious???

Told a girl at a bar I believe abortion should be legal because I don't think human life is that important. She said I believed in it for the wrong reason. Why would my reason matter if I support it? I didn't take her home by the way.

>>732246730
criminalizing abortion is a form a slavery.

A woman must perform labor in various forms to carry a pregnancy to term and to care for a child afterward, even aside from enduring dramatic changes to their body that carry potential health-threatening or even life-threatening risks.

If that labor is forced upon them without their consent by the state or by others, that is slavery.

No amount of deranged sophistry about a zygote being a "person" can justify slavery.

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I am an arbiter of life and death.
Prove me wrong.
Protip: You can't.

>>732249684
No one forces you to work per say but it'd be hard to live if you didn't
The government technically enforces taxes but we can't even get our president to pay them so I wouldn't say you're forced
It wouldn't be wrong to quarantine you if you had a major disease and were a legit threat to people around you

None of it is comparable anyway. We are talking about a woman and what goes on inside her body. If she doesn't want what is basically a parasite then she shouldn't be forced to have it. It's inside of her and unless she decides she wants to have that kid it's just tissue she can get rid of before it develops into anything anyway.

>>732250165
why would you be against abortion if you arent? there is no rational argument to ban it besides religion.

People who post on /b/ worried about being moral. Goddamn.

>>732250213
Can't do the time, don't do the crime.

>>732246730
See the violinist thought experiment. The counter arguments are from capacity and deprivation.

All are completely secular.

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>>732246730

>>732246730
What? How does killing something make you a superior "form" of being? And if the mother chooses to not have the baby then she can do what she wants, and if the father doesn't want the baby the mother and father should was I've his legal responsibilities.

>>732249684
What about abortions for rape victims or cases where the mothers life is in danger if she proceeds with childbirth or how about miscarriages? Some women with miscarriages are forced to carry a dead fetus cause of shit abortion laws.

>>732250246
Then I go back to my property argument here >>732248767

>>732249916
They don't care, because they don't consider apes to be humans. They're not wrong.

>>732250405
>I'm a lazy, sub-human shit
>let's murder our offspring

>>732250259
I'm against killing humans.

>>732250259
>implying religious arguments against abortions are based on rational thinking.

>>732250405
English motherfucker, do you speak it?

>>732246730
So I shouldn't have threatened to kill my ex and her family because she didn't want an abortion?

Maybe I shouldn't have....

But I have a pretty awesome life without that crazy bitch and a monthly little faggot support bill.

>>732250495
so youre against the death penalty then too.

>>732248876
You would violating the personal liberty of the woman by raping her. The difference here is that the embryo was a result of an act at couldn't be considered an immoral act by any stretch of the imagination. The moral difference between rape and consensual sex is clear and I didn't needed to be addressed.

>>732247597
But anon is arguing that in the first stage, a woman who is not pregnant, the embryo which is lying dormant is just tissue, so if this were a living thing you'd be suggesting here that if this woman also was killed that the acused would also get punished for killing g 2 living g things because the dormant egg counts as a living thing.

>>732246730

>Be a republicuck
>pro life.
>hate niggers.
>hate hispanics
>hate non whites.
>wants people to nor a take abortions.
>blacks, Hispanics, non whites are the people taking most abortions because lower income = higher pregnancy rates.
> republicunt wants more black, Hispanic and non white babies in the world.
>can't into basic biology, because of religion or inbreeding.

Please off yourself and take Donald dump with you.

>>732250323
what "crime" would that be?

pro-tip: there isn't one

>>732250425
>What about abortions for rape victims or cases where the mothers life is in danger if she proceeds with childbirth
The baby is not responsible for the rape so it should not be killed. I believe in killing to save another person (self defense, wars, abortion where the mother's life is actually in danger)

>Some women with miscarriages are forced to carry a dead fetus cause of shit abortion laws.

Can you point to some of those laws?

>>732249245
I just farted out more cells than are contained in a zygote.
Kill those all you want

>>732250562
Yes.

>>732246730
Your image is only correct because it depicts a white child.

>>732246730
the 3rd ones a lizard not a human

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>>732246730
>guy shoots up abortion clinic...
>... because he's pro-life

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>>732250759
wow you pussy. are you a vegan? are you getting ready to get your Bill Nye 2020 bumper sticker for your subaru?

>>732247734
A fertilized egg doesnt become a human until it's been in the human body for 9 months. It could miscarry, get a disease that kills it, turn out retarded, etc

Something doesnt "become a human" until it can survive outside the womb.

>>732250837
the 2nd one is a mushroom.

If babies weren't almost certainly fucked if born to mothers who don't want them, they're would be fewer abortions. There would be far fewer abortions if we:

1. Make access to adoption easy. Adoption should be very easy for married couples and should be more accessible to gays, unwed parents, etc. And it should be much cheaper. It's insane that adoption can cost $40,000.

2. Make easy access to free birth control. Birth control is an investment in society's behalf. It's cheaper than more kids on medicaid.

3. Comprehensive sex education.

Interestingly, "pro-life" people are against all three of those things. That's because they don't give a fuck about the kid, they just care about maintaining the political wedge issue.

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>>732250682
Lighten up Stanley. The "crime" is getting pregnant. Sorry I had to explain that to you.

>>732250438
If there are cases where the man wants it and the women doesn't that should be treated per case. Ultimately if pro lifers were so concerned they'd find a way to support a fetus outside of a natural womb so the man could keep it with out forcing the woman to endure a pregnancy. Abortion as a whole shouldn't be made illegal cause some couple disagrees on whether they want to keep a kid or not

>>732250870
No I have my limits.

>>732246730
having an abortion sucks. just mentally draining. and it is a pit in your stomach that eats at your entire life.. i hope people that have abortion are thinking about the potential kid. if your kid is going to have mental problem. when you die who the fuck is going to take care of them. kill them after they are born. also kill the mom that does not give a fuck. why can i say this? it's 4chan. no one gives a fuck.

>>732246730
Ok. Let's say you're married. You and your wife have decided you don't want kids. You've decided you wouldn't be good parents and having a kid would be a strain on you financially.

So, your wife is on the pill and you use condoms. Probably overkill, but you want to be 100% sure. One night, you're fucking and you're right there, right on the edge, like 3 strokes away from victory, and the condom breaks. You don't stop because at that point, your brain doesn't even register, and you cum inside her. Now, no big deal, you think, she's on the pill, it's 99% effective if used properly, and she always uses it properly.

Now, unbeknownst to you, the manufacturer of your wife's pill shipped a batch that was defective. They don't contain the active ingredient, so they don't work. No recall had been issued at the time.

Your wife gets pregnant. You don't want a kid and aren't in a position to care for one. "But you should take responsibility for your actions!". But you did. You wore a condom and had her on the pill. It was a crazy, million to one thing. It's almost inconceivable that it happened, but it did.

Why shouldn't you be able to get an abortion?

>>732249769
There is literally no difference...
OP is supposed to be against abortion as it would make us the 'arbiter or life and death' - something clearly fucking covered by executions dumbass

>>732250889
>get a disease that kills it, turn out retarded, etc
As do humans after being born.

People who say abortion is murder really don't get overpopulation. If your goal is to save as many lives as possible, then killing off useless, unwanted, or superfluous children is the best method. Because if they live they consume resources. Meaning other people, who have already had time and energy invested in THEM just to survive is now being wasted on a child who may not even live long enough to become useful. If we really wanted to save humanity/the planet,we would kill every second born child on earth until the population restablized at about 1 billion humans. Or less. Then everyone would actually have the resources and value to make this planet survivable for more than the next 75 years. So who matters more? The entire planet? Or a few babies that will starve from overpopulation anyway? Fucking retards thinking all lives are equal.

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>>732251038
this probably has you creaming your pants right now.

>>732250978
Getting pregnant is a punishment? For what, getting laid? Having your birth control fail/having your condom break?

>>732250495
Unless its by lethal injection or electric chair?

>>732246730
I'm against it but As long as its not state funded i don't care what women do its there sin to bare.

>>732248988
>1) In legal terms, a pro-abortion stand imposes on no individual making a choice, whereas an anti-abortion stand imposes on all.

In what world would anyone deem the infringement of another's rights to be permissible? Murder is outlawed. You cannot legalize murder simply because you do not like the idea of the imposed constraint.

2) The "abortion" is an interruption of a natural cycle of a human life. If you argue AGAINST abortion, YOU MUST stand against condoms, contraceptives, and sex that isn't intended for procreation (anal, oral, etc), as those also interrupt the natural cycle of human life.

This is no the argument a pro-lifer should base their opinion on. I think both sides can agree it is a weak point to make. Abortion is immoral because you deny the right to life to an unborn child.

3) if you value "conception", that is, when the sperm meets the egg, you must be able to explain the worth of conception as greater than the worth of individual sperm and egg pre-conception. Chronologically, there is no such argument that is logic.

A fertilized egg, if kept in the woman, will yield a baby. Individually a sperm and egg cannot.

4) unless you're willing to classify sex as a means for procreation ONLY, your argument ultimately falls short on a position anti-abortion.

How so?

>>732250978
not a crime.

>morality
>black and white
Choose one

>>732251219
Are you retarded?

>>732251086
My sperm is diseased, genius. Things that arent living humans can get diseases.

>>732251064
Because you have to be responsible, even for accidents. I might run someone over but can I say "I took all the right precautions... I took driver's ed, cleaned my windshield this morning, was traveling at the right speed. I can't be responsible!"

>>732251082
Sure there is. I'm not OP so don't hold me to his argument.

>>732246730
>you cant make an argument, therefore my side of the argument is right
>my side is right even though there is no argument
cant you just let your opinions be your opinions, and let everyone else do whatever the fuck they want?

>>732251175
To me, that is a nightmare scenario.

>>732251335
But then you wouldn't have run someone over unless A. your car somehow failed, or B. that person did something they shouldn't have done like run out blindly in front of your car. If you had truly been responsible and did nothing wrong, that's the only way you could have hit someone, and in both of those cases, you would not be considered legally responsible.

>>732251186
Nope. Against abortion AND death sentences.

>>732250049
Im talking about a mother with a severe mental illness like schitzophrenia or something similar.
It may be unsafe for a baby to be around someone like that, plus the massive hormonal changes surrounding pregnancy could make them a danger to themselves and others.

And no but thats clearly a strawman argument about killing being a slippery slope where the government cam eventually 'abort' anyone who doesnt vote Trump into his 12th term of office

>>732246730
Hold on a good goddamn second here.

You're calling fetuses human? Humans aren't human until they are born. You can argue all fucking day the stages of a fetus. The fact remains, it is a fetus while still up the mama's crotch hole.

Abortion has and never been murder of human life. Murder of fetus life? Maybe. Human? No.

>current year
>arguing about abortion
>must be foreigner faggot OP

>>732251308
yea

>>732251216
>A fertilized egg, if kept in the woman, will yield a baby. Individually a sperm and egg cannot.

If kept in the woman, though. It isnt a child at that point any more than the sperm and egg were. The woman is 50% of that equation, just as the sperm and egg were 50%.

>>732251308
just pointing out that the analogy to serving a sentence for a crime was bogus. There isn't a crime and thus no basis for anyone to impose a sentence.

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>>732246730
>getting this mad about some barely evolved sperm cell
kek'd.

they should make use of the fetuses for leather and soup.

>>732251506
>Im talking about a mother with a severe mental illness like schitzophrenia or something similar.
>It may be unsafe for a baby to be around someone like that, plus the massive hormonal changes surrounding pregnancy could make them a danger to themselves and others.
Clearly a problem but allowing to kill babies to solve it is wrong.

>And no but thats clearly a strawman argument about killing being a slippery slope where the government cam eventually 'abort' anyone who doesnt vote Trump into his 12th term of office

I'm just going by YOUR standards of avoiding growing up in bad conditions.

And keep politics out of it. This has been a pretty good debate without that shit.

>>732250213
>I am in debt to a man for over a million dollars.
>I will have to work the rest of my life to try and repay my debt.
>This will entail dramatic changes to my life and the stress will surely negatively affect my health.
>Why am I not allowed to murder this man?
>This will absolve me of my debt.
>Not allowing me to murder this man is condemning me to slavery.
>Murder should be legal.

>>732251216
>Murder is outlawed. You cannot legalize murder simply because you do not like the idea of the imposed constraint.

>first degree murder is the unlawful killing of a human being with malice aforethought, either expressed or implied upon another human being.

We're talking about killing fetuses. Until you can prove to me the human-like thing in the jelly sack is 100% living human, your argument for murder goes straight out the faggot window.

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>>732251675
mmmm foetus soup

>>732251897
>We're talking about killing fetuses. Until you can prove to me the human-like thing in the jelly sack is 100% living human, your argument for murder goes straight out the faggot window.
Then what is it? Go back to my property argument.

>>732251615
By "crime" he just means an event that has a consequence.

Are you fucking retarded?

>>732250711
The baby is currently just tissues. The potential of life. That baby isn't even garunteed. You'd rather protect a potential baby that will be thrown in the system than the woman who was raped? She doesn't want to put her body through a pregnancy let alone one that will be a reminder of a horrible experience. You aren't killing anything yet because it hasn't even lived.

http://nytlive.nytimes.com/womenintheworld/2016/03/31/texas-woman-forced-to-deliver-stillborn-baby-due-to-abortion-ban/
Texas for one has strict laws against late term abortions. Some women have miscarriages and preterm labor. I only support early term abortions but late term is sometimes necessary which is why flat black and white laws about abortion never work. Iowa is looking at forcing mothers to carry still born to term.

>>732252013
Call it whatever you want. You don't go to jail for killing human-like things. Companies do it every day.

>>732250678
>OP puts forth a claim and asks for arguments against it.
>I'll just make a bunch of assumptions because I cannot think of a good argument
>Haha OP is such an idiot!

>>732252119
>Call it whatever you want. You don't go to jail for killing human-like things. Companies do it every day.
Don't just blow it off. If it's not a human, then it's property and property laws should be followed. If you don't like that then give me a different argument.

>>732251216
Murder is killing someone else
Abortion is trimming some tissue out of a womb before it because someone

>>732250981
Im almost dissapointed in myself for saying it, especially on /b/, but the guy in this situation doesnt deserve any rights.

Its a real moral grey area but imo and in that of the courts you cant impose 9 months of pregnancy on a woman just because the guy wants it. He can go try and concieve elsewhere, its her body to di with as she wills. Otherwise the slave argument somone brought out earlier really comes into play

>>732246730
>being this retarded
It's literally just semantics, subjective wordplay. It's not right or wrong to do anything, we have to keep in mind that we're just moving collections of atoms making choices based on our evolutionary history

>>732252590
Exactly

>>732251890
you left out the part where you engaged in a legal contract with the man to do that labor and pay him back a million dollars. And you left out the part where the fertilized egg is not a person capable of making any such contract with you, or you with it. You're also just assuming that a fertilized egg, despite having no functioning brain, nervous system or self awareness, is something that does or should have similar rights to a man making a contract with me for a million dollars.

In short, another bogus analogy

>>732246730

The way I see it, if a couple (or the mother if its a rape victim) is incapable of raising the child and providing it with a somewhat guaranteed future, that child doesn't need to go through a shitty childhood and turn into a school shooter or a crack addict because of his/her parents.

Also, accidents happen. Even if you are a responsible couple, the condom might break or you might end up having drunk sex or whatever, you may still choose to not bring a child into life because it wasn't planned ahead.

I'm glad my parents were responsible and self sufficient people when they decided to have me, so I grew up with love, care and was also decently comfortable. I would hate if my child would end up having to live any worse than how I used to as a kid.

>>732251575
> It isnt a child
Sure I agree. But would you agree that it is more valuable than the sperm and egg? Would you agree that if taken care of, the fertilized egg will eventually become a child? The same as if a child that is taken care of will eventually become an adult?

>The woman is 50% of that equation, just as the sperm and egg were 50%.
I'm not sure what you meant by this.

>>732250870
This is why everyone thinks you are a country of retarded hicks.
You all look down upon intelligence and education, and end up electing another president with actual retardation. Thats two of the last three

>>732248452
They used to get jobs at 8. Maybe we should do that again.

>>732251897
>>732252408
I think you two missed the point. I was refuting the logic used in the OP. He made the case that a constraint on all is somehow an immoral act. But we have these constraints because we deemed the acts to immoral or to have such a negative impact that it should not be allowed.

Since you two brought it up - abortion and murder are immoral for similar reasons. Both deny the right of the individual to live.

>>732252061
i think i showed that it is the time/crime analogy that is retarded. You don't get to impose legal sanctions ("time") on someone for "an event that has a consequence" (getting pregnant). Only for an action that is criminal.

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>>732253201
get ready for this shit, coming summer 2019.

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>>732247815
Copy Pasta Faggot

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>>732246730
ITT: People too distracted by issues that don't really affect them to notice their government doing shadier shit.

>>732250974
These are actually excellent ideas.

I know for a fact that the second two have been implemented by several EU cointries such as Holland and rates of unwanted/unplanned pregnacies went through the floor - especially in teens.
Abortion levels naturally decreased as a result, as did STI and HIV infection rates interestingly.

>>732253441
Holy fucking shit you're stupid.

>>732251335
Terrible example
>you ran them over whilst not paying enough attention - your fault
>you took all precautions and paid full attention yet they ran out in front before you could react - their fault

>>732248645
This poster is stupid as fuck. Children can't provide for themselves or live in their own for years. Say... most 10 year olds can't actually survive by themselves without an adult to provide. Should we be able to terminate them at will? What an idiot

>>732246730

Pro-lifers are really Pro-birthers. After a baby is born they don't give a shit about it or its mother. They just use this argument to control a woman's reproductive rights.

>>732251391
If you are desperate to hold this stance then fine, not all lives are equally weighted.
>criminals can be executed
>unborn featuses can be aborted

>>732252875
>you left out the part where you engaged in a legal contract with the man to do that labor and pay him back a million dollars

I didn't leave anything out. This was for you to fill in. Engaging in consensual sex poses a risk for pregnancy. Both parties agree this a very possible outcome and should be willing to deal with it just as I would if I went into a deal that may leave me in massive debt.

>And you left out the part where the fertilized egg is not a person capable of making any such contract with you, or you with it

Wait, you're saying that a fetus cannot communicate with humans? I'll be damned.

>You're also just assuming that a fertilized egg, despite having no functioning brain, nervous system or self awareness, is something that does or should have similar rights to a man making a contract with me for a million dollars.

A person in a vegetative doesn't posses any of these things either (maybe the CNS, but what good is it if they cannot use it?) should they be killed? What if I told you they will eventually return to normal in about nine months - would agree that killing them is permissible?

>>732246730
You're a fucking bleeding heart liberal idiot. Humanity isn't even arguable until brain activity dumbshit.

>>732254233
Liberals are pro-abortion you retard.

>>732253938
>Anti-murders are just just pro-living. After a would be victim is not murderd they don't give a shit about them or the would be murderer. They just use this argument to control a person's actions.

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>>732246730
What if your 14-year-old daughter is raped by a refugee and turns out to be pregnant?

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>>732246730
Now I just wish you were aborted ...

None of this changes the fact that nearly all miscarriages are either homicide or suicide.

>>732246730
Religious people hate it, that's why I am for it. Suck jesus dick and nail yourself to wood whilst I vacuum out a hundred more parasites.

>>732254885
Op is a rape baby

>>732254863
WTF is an "anit murder"
>Retardation alert

"wah wah I want people to be forced to give birth to babies they can't afford or don't give a shit about. the fact that the baby will live an awful life and is drastically more likely to have to resort to crime to sustain themselves, thereby making the lives of everyone nearby worse (or simply ending them prematurely, if the robbery turns to a murder) doesn't matter"

By banning abortion, you yourself are becoming the arbiter of life and death by disabling the latter option. The world has 7 billion humans, we don't need any fucking more; this is doubly true if the human in question would live a miserable life.

dont care, kill the babies, burn the bible and spit on the crucifix

>>732247458
>That ''piece of tissue'' is guaranteed to turn into a fully grown human being if left alone the way nature intended it to be.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Perinatal_mortality#/media/File:Neonatal_Death.png

>>732251829
I wasnt really bringing politics into it, if Hilary had won id have used her, the point was that there is no 'slippery slope'.
The gov reference was a joke to illustrate that.

I see your point though, this has actually been one of the most coherent debates ive had on /b/ in years. So ill keep it to the point in future

>>732251829
Im pretty sure in the UK you need doctors sign off for an abortion on medical grounds. The grounds are pretty wide but it seems a fair comprimise no?

>>732254137
You can pull the plug on vegetables though...

>>732255285
Someone who is against murder. You must've triggered the alert.

>>732249696
>this fucker has a different opinion than me, lol what a fucking virgin

>>732255734
You're right. There are too many people as is. We should kill those who are severely poor. They will resort to crime anyways so we should save everyone the hassle. The happiness calculus checks out.

>>732256380
Yes and? Simply because something is legal does not mean it is inherently justified. I recommend thinking about the nine months part of the post and ask yourself if pulling the plug is an acceptable action.

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>>732246730
>There is no moral argument for abortion because attempting to make an argument would require you to become an arbiter of life and death, a position no human can take, because it would assume a superior form of being.

Oh, OP is probably not going to read this, but oh well. Here goes.
We extinguish life every moment of our lives. Microbes die by the millions every time you take a breath. You consume living things to live, unless plants are "rocks" in your model of the world.

Whether something is human or not is also inconsequential. "Human" is a trait belonging to anything with a certain type of DNA structure.
Your cancer cells are human. The flakes from your skin is human. Your hair is human.

What is important is whether or not something is a /person/.

Go ahead, prove me wrong (please)

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>>732249017
Baby hearts are not magical infallible adamantium constructs.
They can and occasionally do fail, like everything else in our bodies.

>>732248555
>>732248777
Uhm this guy has god on his side look at the dubbel trips

>>732256514
If we do it right, we can use the proteines in the poor people's bodies to make some sort of feed for livestock, or fertilizer for crops. Or even just as food.
That way they will contribute to society in a positive way that will let more poor people live good lives.

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>would require you to become an arbiter of life and death, a position no human can take

kek

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>>732246730

What do you guys think about raising a 'retard'? I know I couldn't do it for sure. Don't get me wrong I would like to have children one day but a retard requires a lot of patience and a real dedication. Wouldn't an abortion be better for not only the parents but also for the child, instead of being raised by people who aren't capable of doing so?

>>732256897
>We extinguish life every moment of our lives. Microbes die by the millions every time you take a breath. You consume living things to live, unless plants are "rocks" in your model of the world.

This is a non-sequitur. None of what you wrote here relates to the argument for why abortion is immoral.

>Your cancer cells are human. The flakes from your skin is human. Your hair is human.

It is a common notion that when what constitutes humanness is discussed it is not about the DNA make up of humans or their various phenotype.

>What is important is whether or not something is a /person/.

What is a person in your view?

>>732246730
No moral argument ? How about severe overpopulation which will lead to some crazy consequences within the next decade leading live babies to die of hunger and war?

>>732247734
Virgin birth can and has indeed happened so every egg that's wasted is a potential child

>>732258839
>This is a non-sequitur. None of what you wrote here relates to the argument for why abortion is immoral.
It relates to this:
>There is no moral argument for abortion because attempting to make an argument would require you to become an arbiter of life and death, a position no human can take
Obviously we are arbiters of life and death. Our only way out of this is death.

>What is a person in your view?
I'm not completely sure. But it involves Intelligence, a sense of self and a theory of mind.
With this it's hard to give a 22 week old fetus as much "person"-cred as a full grown pig. And bacon is delicious.

>>732246730
>wanting niggers and subhumans to have even less population control
retard

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>>732259452
>Virgin birth can and has indeed happened
Eh, no.
No it hasn't.
There have been reports of it, but if you go check them they all turn out to be stories of secret sex.

I think there are about three people in this thread that actually understand the imitations of population on a planet with finite resources. How can someone claim to be on the moral high ground when arguing against abortion? You want to save lives? then kill babies. Preferably the mentally handicapped, physically crippled and uselessly poor. Because we can save some babies now, or the planet can live. We are really running out of grey area to argue. 7.4 billion people. Billion. Let that number sink in and if you aren't terrified by that, it's projected to be 30 billion or more in less than 50 years.save a life, kill a baby!

>>732260115
This guy, he gets it.

>>732248794
Why should someone have to face the burden of being pregnant for 9 months and then having to deal with the pain of childbirth over something she never wanted in the first place? Pregnant rape victims should have the right to abort, no questions asked.

Or better yet, we should make all pro-life faggots and people like you pay for and take care of these unwanted babies until they're 18. How would you like that?

>>732246730
it's "pro tip" not "I'll give you a pro tip" dumbass

>>732247597
But that woman had the intention of having that child, probably

>>732260115
You think 7.4 billion is a high number?
The earth has 15.77 billion acres of -inhabitable- land.
We get two acres each, and we don't even need one to grow enough food for ourselves.

The earth can have more people and be fine. Current population growth trend points towards a plateau around 10 billion people. We make enough food for that amount of people now.
It's just a matter of distribution.

>>732259878
I'm not sure how you can seemingly equate microbes with human life. When OP mentioned being arbiters of life and death he speaking of the lives of humans.

>Intelligence, a sense of self and a theory of mind.

These are all vague terms that do not create a clear case for what constitutes a human. By these criteria a dog is a person with the same rights as a human and I'd be hard pressed to find people who agree with this.

Show a pig that will eventually turn into an adult human then I'll fight for the rights of pigs.

>>732260628
>By these criteria a dog is a person with the same rights as a human
I didn't say so.
I'd argue against that. I don't think a dog has the level of intelligence that I would require to say "this is a person". Neither has a pig.
And neither has a fetus.

And I didn't say that intelligence, a sense of self and a theory of mind was neccessary for being a human. I stated that your skin cells are human, and so the description "human" is meaningless.

What is important, what is worthy of protection, is a person.

A fetus is a potential person. It can grow into a person.
But it ISN'T a person.

>>732247458
But a black fetus only has a chance to grow into a human. Sometimes it grows into a nigger.

>>732259929
*barking noises*

>>732260478
>you are assuming nothing on the planet needs to live except for humans though. I guess if you are willing to let pretty much every other non human animal on earth die, then yes the earth can support more humans. Considering the ecological destablization causes by such an action would likely lead to the entire planets environment changing or even collapsing, maybe it would be a better to just moderate ourselves in time?

>>732246730
What's wrong with being superior than a human being?

>>732260939
>, maybe it would be a better to just moderate ourselves in time?
Sure.
But that would require you to tell other people that they shouldn't get the kids they want.
And we need people to have babies. It's the number of babies that are up for discussion. And trying to limit the number of babies people are allowed to have is a sure fire way to create civil unrest.
It's better to simply help enhance the quality of life in impoverished areas. Every single place that this has happened the rate of child birth per woman falls down to approx' 2.

Go check the birth statistics for Bangladesh. And rejoice.

>>732260478
>Implying humans are the only animals in the world
>As if other animals aren't also in the billions and eating up our resources
>As if the only resources we should worry about is food

>>732260478
Yes because I am sure we all want to live in a world where resources are stretched so thinly for the sake of Jamal, Achmed and Pahjeet's spawn
Fuck off

>>732261197
Sorry. Moderate ourselves in time made that sound to passive. I'm saying the planet as a whole (maybe through the UN since we don't have a real globalized government yet) should lay down very harsh laws, and in all honesty, should start killing off the more useless human populations. We cannot physically get food to everyone currently alive,and you think we could support more? Like half the world is verging on starvation already. Just finish the job so they can't pump out 8 replacement babies before they kick the bucket at 20. I don't even care what population we choose to let live or who we kill, numbers just have to go down. Simple as that

>>732260862
I don't think a dog has the level of intelligence that I would require to say "this is a person"

This is the problem with using the term intelligence to classify a person. By all accounts dogs are intelligent. They are self-aware. Therefore they are a person and should not be kept as pets because that would be an infringement upon their right to be autonomous. What is the "level" needed to be a person? be careful because you and I might just fail to meet this level then we'll be doomed.

As I mentioned before, when discussing humans and what it means to human, we are really discussing both person hood and animal known as man.

>A fetus is a potential person. It can grow into a person.
Why isn't the rights of the future person protected? Why are we not allowed to kill a child that was born an hour ago? They fail to meet the criteria you outlines. They are a potential person. It can grow into a person, but it isn't a person.

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>>732247458
This. In principle a pregnant woman will give birth to a baby. Just because babies die before they are born doesn't not change the principle that pregnancy results in birth.
All women who make the choice to have sex should have the responsibility to follow through on the natural result, provided they will raise the child with its biological father. The UN recognizes a child's basic human right of being raised by its biological parents.

In the case of pregnancy resulting from rape, abortion should be mandatory, unless the woman intends to raise the child with her rapist.

Single motherhood is a scourge. The children of single mothers are more likely to become criminals, as well as experience a host of other social issues.
The sexual liberation of women, and free access to abortions and divorces has degraded our society to a tipping point.
Think Weimar Germany.
We're living in a Weimar World

>>732246730
are my balls 40000000 humans then

>>732262074
You have to have sex first, but that's not happening is it?

I have two points to make, 1 how do you suppose we deal with all the kids born to drug addicts or complete poverty living a life arguably worse than death, 2 if something knows not of its own existence does it care if it dies?

>>732246730
Abortion is a built-in function of the reproductive system

>>732262734
>1 how do you suppose we deal with all the kids born to drug addicts or complete poverty living a life arguably worse than death

There is no way of knowing with a 100% certainty his life would remain as bad as the day he was born. It has to be 100% certainty because if there is a small chance that his life can improve for the better then we would be doing a severe injustice to him if were to deprive him of the opportunity.

>2 if something knows not of its own existence does it care if it dies

No it cannot by definition, care. This does not permit abortion though because that something will eventually know of it's existence and rightfully be glad to have lived.

Yeah let's keep every person and treat them like a special snowflake until our wildly unsustainable way of life starts to fuck up. That sounds like a good idea fuck this gay earth

>>732261696
>should start killing off the more useless human populations.
So what is more "useless":
- An out of work mechanic in North Carolina
- An low-level advertisement exec in Austin
- A small scale farmer in outside of Gutu, Zimbabwe

Who are we killing off?

>>732264225
Cisplanet scum

>>732263812
I think you should be able to execute babies under one year prove me wrong pro tip you can't

>>732263812
So a degenerative birth defect that doctors have already used technology to affirm that the fetus is going to struggle living outside of the womb and will have to have hundreds of operations through out its perceived life.That puts financial burden on the parents that most cannot afford or would even want too,.

>>732247458
>guaranteed, sort of like cars are guaranteed against break jns, yiu just need some elbow grease and a coat hanger

>>732264359
Advertisement exec

>>732264359
Every single person in the advertisement and mainstream televised media industry

>>732264360
I would I fuck this gay earth if I was cis you fucking bigot

>>732246730
OP is a pro abortion argument in their own right.

>>732264524
>>732264516
So we're not going by wage then I gather.
I'm betting nobody is willing to be the one "useless" enough to leave this planet.

Or, do we have any volunteers here?
Also, this: >>732260478
>The earth can have more people and be fine. Current population growth trend points towards a plateau around 10 billion people. We make enough food for that amount of people now.
It's just a matter of distribution.
Technically, we can feed way more than 10 billion people if we go from organic farming to efficient, sustainable and non-invasive farming, and go for more calorie heavy yield crops in favor of some of the cattle production we have now.

But we won't have to. Because we already produce enough food for everyone.

>>732247815
If that was trips it would have been epic. B is such a choosy place

>>732264359
I already specified i don't care what population gets killed. It makes sense to focus on the mentally ill, physically disabled and poor first. But that won't be enough. A lot more people would need to die to stabilize. So we get rid of the obvious genetic failures and then pick arbitrarily. Don't even care that much if I end up on the list. We are all dead if we don't do something anyway. I'd rather have a clean bullet to the head than be one of 20 billion starving, living corpse people that all say every life matters as their teeth and hair fall out from malnutrition.

>>732246730
Does that make an egg a chicken?

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>>732261889
This. Fuck Weimar, and fuck the weak men who enabled suffrage.

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>>732246730
Top 3 are not human. A virus and a cyst are the same as the top 3. Think about the quality of life. Does that not equate into your logic.

>>732265027
>I'd rather have a clean bullet to the head than be one of 20 billion starving, living corpse people that all say every life matters as their teeth and hair fall out from malnutrition.
That sounds absolutely charming. have fin with that.
But do know that demographers usually predict a population top around 10 billion with current trends.
Asia has by and large stopped their population growth, but there is still some growth in Africa, and also a demographic shift with a big 0-50 year old population that is set to replace a smaller 51+ crowd in Asia, and the next 0-50 year old crowd is set to be as large as the current one.

Population growth really isn't a very big problem.
The biggest problem we have now, resource wise, is ridiculous waste.

Everyone knows life is a big fucking hassle for everyone, and sometimes if we know we can't give someone new something good, we shouldn't bring them in at all.

>>732248623
Yeah, so you are for or against abortions in cases of rape, incest, etc.?

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If abortion was legal crime rates would decrease, refute that you plebs.

>>732246730
i feel pretty superior to a baby, i mean i decide if my kid dies every time i feed him or not.

The real qestion is when it's to late for an abortion to be a viable option.
First trimester okay?
Second?
Fifth?
Seventy fourth if the passive parasitic shit hasn't moved away from home yet?

>>732265476
Because if you are you agree to killing what you call a human being even though that same human being didn't choose to exist. It happened. And it happened in the worst situation it ever could.

If you're against abortion in these cases you actually accept the fact that a future baby may be retarded or a product of something a woman definitely doesn't want a memory of.

I'm for abortion and anyone who isn't shouldn't be taken seriously. And no, it isn't "human" in the first stages. Just tissue.