So /b/ Tell my why I shouldnt become a full blown communist?

Why do Americans talk about communism all the time when your country will never be communist
And nobody is forcing you

i dont know much, but idont know if you have to have banks to be capitalist. and if so, fuck the rothchilds, but maybe the banks can be less sticky(idk). but with brands you can build your self with the brands you like plus i believe its better on the environment because youre sleeping on the brand and not the item.. like i said idk anything about the two, but i do know the usa is a capitalist society with a lite communist flow.. but i prefer the capitalist side it lets you focus on other things other then building yourself become the brand does it for you...but it definitely got outta hand...

>>730896300
because theres a communist revolt going o, at least from what i see. idkk. it fucking terrifies me. i was brought up capitalist and now theres all this ussr and nazi communist crap going on and its a bit scary knowing ill have to completely change the way i think.

>>730895984
Marx described a society that transitioned away from capitalism and government. First the proletariat seized power and stopped being exploited, and there's a period of rule by the proletariat. This is supposed to be a transitory stage, where people gradually loose the need to be ruled and for things to be ordered by the government, and people just kinda start helping each other.

The problem is that before this second phase occurs some madman grabs control of the communist party. This man now can kill the fuck out of everyone he doesn't like with his total control over everyone's food supply.

there's also the fact that this second part where the government is no longer needed to make people do things is wishful thinking. People only work without being forced to for themselves and their family.

>>730895984
/leftypol/ pls take your jew shit somewhere else.

i believe the companys should invest more into the country. seriously.

>>730896300
I honestly know it will never be communist in our lifetime

I just dont understand why dumb liberals and working class conservatives dont at least empathize with moving to a more progressive democratic socialism, or even libertarian socialism

they have nothing to lose. theyre just brainwashed by this dead "american dream" where they think they can make it

All theyre getting is exploited until theyre no longer useful, and then they die

Why not have the workers own the means of production? At least they would be paid a fair wage and have an input on what theyre contributing to

>>730895984
Banks are the single most important part of the capitalist system, they are what makes it possible for someone to 'rise from nothing.' (which does happen, we can argue about how often)

They provide a person without funds but has an idea the possibility to get the money they need to start the project, for a cut of the money later on. Yeah they charge a lot, but they're not going to get their money back all the time and you're free to not take the loan.

Here's the problem with leftists, I don't care about how rich the rich are. Let's talk about doing what's best for the poor. 'leaches' in a capitalist country make money from people *choosing* to spend money on them. If you had a better option, you'd choose something else. The best of bad choices is still better than nothing. (or you could choose that too)

>>730896638
Well yeah the plan is to not let some crazy take over, obviously. And there shouldnt be a problem with food supply if its all small communities contributing locally. Noboodys hoarding grain here.

>>730895984

>>730888051 here's the answer

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>>730895984
good question fam

why not combine the left the right and the libertarian. and make the government like a trifecta government with three head leaders

dude, people arent eating anymore, were devolving...were heading back to the sea....

>>730895984
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ApMNKGT6eE8

>>730897077
>implying people make logical choices
>implying individual responsibilities

Hey, I smell neoliberal scum.

Learn to greentext

>>730895984
Nah dude, the US have the full communism since now
>a dictator, lil stupid
>war interests
>poor people
>your gf belongs to every bbc

>>730897466
>Learn to greentext
>cant greentext

>>730896688
unionize

>>730897077
ya the whole point tho is we dont want capitalism

people would be taken care of in a democratic socialist society

theres too much focus on individualism in the society. if you worked to build communities instead of gentrify and impoverish them they we would be a much more productive society.

Think of all the potential scientists that just didnt have the resources to make it

>>730897161
too high for that

>>730897421
also too high for that

>>730896557
Give me source on that
Also only Americans can be called Nazis
You call each other Nazis

>>730896557
>nazi communist

youre obviously uneducated then

id do some reading and talk to some people outside of your community if i were you

capitalism is a system of exploitation

youre being exploited

>>730895984
I'm with you OP.

Democratic Capitalism is a farce. The US has transformed into an oligarchic plutocracy. Big money rules the nation, makes all the nation's decisions, fabricates the illusion of choice, and uses media manipulation to keep Americans focused on debating issues that have already been decided (if they are not already distracting you with crime investigations, the weather, or puppy videos). Americans only want to be entertained, to be happy. It's hilarious that the majority of American do not realize that they are the media's (and therefore Big Money's) little robotic creations, emotions and all!

Communism is only good for subhumans, once people become a bit sophisticated communism just can't work anymore.

>>730897148
The problem with revolutions is that they make leaders.

Let's not pretend the bolsheveks wanted to give a mad dictator control of everything, it just kind of happened accidentally. We can't say it wouldn't happen again. (communist revolutions have a track record of being hijacked in this way)

Holodomor in Ukraine was small farming communities, how did they starve to death? The revolutionary army literally came and requisitioned all their food so they'd starve to death. Maybe if they had guns(like Marx advised) this wouldn't have happened, but let's get into a second why they were punished.

The starvation served a lot of political and practical surpluses. It was carried out in large parts against the Kulaks (these are my ancestors so I'm biased against communism, I'll admit it) the Kulaks were peasant farmers who owned land, so they weren't entirely onboard with the revolution. Kulaks among many others had in the beginning of communism all of their surplus harvest confiscated, so they planted less grain next time so they'd not have to work so hard. This set a terrible precedent, as this would mean the cities would starve and the worker peasant alliance would break down. The solution then, was to confiscate all their food and kill two birds (and a lot of Ukrainians) with one stone.

The more basic problem is that work requires managers, and they either need to be motivated by belief in the communist system or by prospect of their own advancement. You need encouragement or 100% of people buy into communism and work hard for the good of the whole. I just don't think it'll work out like that.

>>730897933
individualism is key to survival and true happiness

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>>730895984

>Marxism: The radical idea that the working man is being fucked over by rich elites

I never understood why I'm supposed to be against it.

>>730897461

I know, it must suck to hear that the state of your life is your own fault. Sorry man.

>implying people make logical choices

Offer someone two dollars or two hundred dollars, like actually have the money there and be serious. See which one they take every time.

and no, people aren't perfect at making value judgements, but they're pretty damn good at it.

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>>730895984

Do you want to start a civil war? Because that's how you start a civil war.

>>730898105
enlighten me then, brother.

There is no reason not to be

>>730897933
>people would be taken care of in a democratic socialist society

Only problem with this is I'm the only one who can take care of myself, and you too. Sorry to say, people only know what they want individually. It can't be decided for you.

>>730898105
as are they...not everything is evil. they build character.

>>730898785
wage slavery is the surest way to kill individuality.

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>>730895984
You tell 'em Comrade!

>>730899030
https://www.instagram.com/p/BTMVpEclu2D/

>>730899030
https://www-instagram.com/p/BTMVpEclu2D/

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>>730899017
Then start your own company. With your fellow workers if you like. Ain't no law stopping you.

Fucking moron.

>>730899134

>I'm robbing your house
>just move to another house, there's no law stopping you

kek

>>730895984
You can do that right now, whats stopping you? Go to N Korea, Cuba, or Venezuela and experience the joy of communism.

Funny how all these people who like communism never want to go to an actual communist country.

literally, all i can say is....help?

Read The communist manifesto, Americans are closer to communism than you think. I mean you say fuck The banks But The bakning system is exactly like Marx describe it.

Communism and capitalism are completely different from each other, right?

Capitalism has a lot of flaws, and communism doesn't work well. We need something in the middle

>>730895984
I don't usually post a reply on here, but you're absolutely fucking insane. America has so much to lose, if it does turn towards the ways of "Marxism".

>Fuck the banks, theyre complete leeches
>education and healthcare
You do fucking realize that the lifeblood of America is fucking business right? The banks is where is the money is at. You take away the banks, then businesses all around will have a much harder time finding a way to properly survive, which in the long run hurts the economy.

Where the flipping fuck do you think the schools/education, and healthcare get their budgets? The government jackass.

Since the government is able to fund schools and healthcare, where do you think they get their money from? The banks.

If communism rules, then business will go right out the window with it.

HA fucking siding with the ideas of a man that were never truly concrete in the fucking first place. I wonder what that fat bastard Karl Marx would do/think of his creation, and how many millions, upon millions of innocents that were slaughtered because of his idealistic actions.

FUCK YOU OP... fuck you.

Sincerley,
A patriot

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>>730899271
You make a powerful argument.

>>730898635
I agree, Im also biased against against that kind of communism, my family lost everything in east germany - but thats not really what im talking about

I shouldve said socialist, not comunist, in in the OP

and ya fuck the bolsheviks

>>730898858
yes

>>730898940
yes, but not everybody can take care of themselves. i dont know your situation, and im not gonna assume youre "privileged" but there are a lot of people that need help to flourish, and if you can help, for the greater good, why not?

>>730899271
>I hate my job

Okay then quit, you're not being forced to stay. You have to work to eat in every world, communism won't change that.

You won't get more money out of it either, you make as much as other people are willing to pay you. That's what you're worth in dollars. Don't like it? Become more valuable to other people.

ruch the rothchilds and the rockefellers and the clintons. other banks arent as bad. when your family has been ruling the world for 500 years you tend to become a leech...

>>730899331
>We need something in the middle

We already have that in the US.

>>730899525

I am not sure about that. dunno much about economy tho

>>730899331
democratic socialismmmmm

>>730899489
>yes, but not everybody can take care of themselves. i dont know your situation, and im not gonna assume youre "privileged" but there are a lot of people that need help to flourish, and if you can help, for the greater good, why not?


Sounds like what you want is social democracy, I have my own problems with it, but it's got a hell of a lot better track record than communism.

There's nothing wrong with giving people a hand up when they need it, you're right.

>>730899525
>thinks America is halfway between capitalism and communism

nigga
you dumb

>>730899777
We are not even close to a capitalist system. And the government really does both fuck up and improve things with its meddling

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>>730895984

I'm a commie. I enjoy being right, so it's the only choice really.

Most people are too dumb to get past all the fake ops meant to subvert Leftists in the West. Like the whole DSA crowd are actually the most violently anti-communist cunts on the planet. That's the real job. Subvert revolutionary spirit - draw it back to the Dems.

Your post shows you are heavily indoctrinated. Do you think if there's a Red revolution in the US the richies are just gonna congratulate us and walk away? No. We will have to kill millions. Don't listen to the anti-Communism ist propaganda on Stalin. The U.S. secretly declared war on Russia in 1950. After they lost 20 million people defeating the Nazis. I say Stalin's only mistake was not killing enough. If you don't come around to this way of thinking I'll gladly put a bullet into your head myself. But if you can break free of your anti-Communist indoctrination I welcome you comrade. Please, fuck my sister.

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seriosuly if we just kill off the older generations the 90's and after can fix it and create a better would. the older generations only see the bad of the united state of america whenre i see the good. yall were oppressed to benefit the future generations they squeezed you to benefit us and now we are being opressed because of yalls resentment. i dont even know what communism or capitaliusm really is i say fuck it all and start over, but who am i, im dead and a result of this. ASK WHAT THE US GOVERNMENT can do for you and they gave me the world.. and now because of trump. it was stolen...

>>730895984
It's okay, I don't understand economics either. But if you want to take my fucking property then you are going to have to kill me first, because you would be violating NAP. Honestly communism is the most retarded ideology I have ever encountered. Kill yourself, your IQ is too low to function in a capitalist society.

>>730898852
Still very unconvincing.

You're trying to equivocate an unrealistic situation to the larger, systematic issues at hand.

Give a poor, uneducated, lower class individual the option to go find a job, educate himself, and live the "American dream."

And he might just spend all night on /b/ looking for answers. Must suck to be so uneducated, man.

>>730895984
No reason. It works great as long as it's a voluntary system. There have been successful communes in capitalist countries including the USA for literally decades. The problems arise from trying to get everyone to go along with it whether they want to or not, because more than most political systems, it really depends on everyone involved to be more or less altruistic about what they're doing. As soon as you get a few weak links, the table tilts and things go badly out of whack (to be polite about it).

But if you want to try it, I say join a commune and go for it, anon.

>>730899965
>The U.S. secretly declared war on Russia in 1950. After they lost 20 million people defeating the Nazis. I say Stalin's only mistake was not killing enough.


Good fucking luck man, you'll lose the war and you know it.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5OhXWiPFXKs

my first youtube video

>>730899965
i dont know much about the DSA, but I was looking into some socialist groups in my area...should i stay away?

no idea what youre talking about at the end there but ya all fuck your sister

>>730898105
Go back to Plebbit you stupid cuck. Without Capitalism you would be curled up in a small apartment living a life of austerity with no internet, no computer, no car, and a shitty blue collar job that is borderline slavery. Only the stupid fail in a capitalist society and only the stupid embrace communism.

>>730900402
its hard to become educate in a country full of users and heathens that treat life like its a rat race that can't be fixed... i got bust me ass for 5 years and work my hardest to not become homeless and to aim high and i get home and a fagget cracks an egg on my head and steals my girlfriend along with all my earnings and my sight as well as my paths...

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>>730895984
Because you're subscribing to a modernist, futurist focused and wide cast narrative that is inapplicable to our post-modernist world of today. Sure, you find communism as a label to be a nice romance however you're simply being anachronistically referential upon several social constructs of the past to compose what you believe to be communism and creating your own personal narrative that is so far removed from its roots that you might as well call it... well, anything else. Frankly, all that aside, as communism suggests capitalism must first take full hold for people to see its weaknesses and collectively call-to-action upon ripping it down for communal/non-currency dependent life. So, if you want to spur on true communism... support a libertarian or full capitalist or something. Speed up the process, you don't think it'll work anyway... so let it crash. Then maybe communism would have a chance. And if you're wrong, it works either way. Technological progress is likely to make all of any of this obsolete anyway. The world changes so subtly in each and every way in ways people never stop to consider, changing how we all think and interact more than any dogmatic code of economic models ever could. Its the tiny changes that brought down communism in the first place, little things that let people see how far the world had left it behind, yet, it was always built on a futurist mindset wholly optimistic on what a great future the tenants of communism would herald. Oh shit i'm high.

>>730900713
>Without Capitalism you would be curled up in a small apartment living a life of austerity with no internet, no computer, no car, and a shitty blue collar job that is borderline slavery

Thats how 70% of america lives under capitalism you retard

do you wnana be a wagecuck working for thee man for the rest of your life? or do you want o contribute to your community and something youre passionate about?

only through solidarity of the working class can you can break free

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>>730895984
>We can finally invest in education and healthcare, which has been proven to be one of the the most effective investments a government can make
>We can finally invest in this crumbling infrastructure and a green energy system that will be more efficient and cost effective in the long run
>Collective and local farming would both save energy and efficiency

Do you know how many times in the world this has been tried, and has failed?

This time it will be different though, I'm sure.

omgosh stfu and speak english!!

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>>730899435
>"Where the flipping fuck do you think the schools/education, and healthcare get their budgets? The government jackass."
>Since the government is able to fund schools and healthcare

Tfw you just described Democratic Socialism, a form of government inspired by Karl Marx.

Tfw you don't even realize that USSR communism was brought about by Leninism, not Marxism.

Patriot? More like another manipulated American.

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>>730899965
>I'm a commie
>I enjoy being right


pick one ya' retard

>>730895984
communism requires a highly centralized form of government in order to properly manage the means of production you must be an authoritarian in order to make sure that the means of production serves the interests of the state and not "exploited" by individuals, by now the soviet pattern is the most unless you want to be a filthy anarchist. So far the mosy effective system of leftist governance is the late soviet union. also giving people freedom will undermine your commie government because everyone will seek more than they need and better than thr state gives so brainwashing through indoctrination and
elimination of political enemies and undesirable ideas and individuals are essential. in order to have a good commie state you must be in control of everything from the means of production to your peoples minds, and freedom is not essential.
>Collective and local farming
it was done ukraine and kazakhstan didnt worked out well.

>>730900402
>You're trying to equivocate an unrealistic situation to the larger, systematic issues at hand.

The most successful person I know far more so than me, is exactly what you described. A fucking black orphan. How'd he do it? He played a bad hand really well and got a community college degree and got a job as an emt. He moved from poor to middle class and is living a good life the way he decided to.

It happens every day, rich people fall face first and lose everything and poor people live good lives. Even in communism you can get addicted to drugs and ruin your life. You'll always be responsible for what happens to you and the sooner you realize that the sooner you might better yourself.

this is why I hate this far left bullshit, if you just blame the system then you'll never do better. That's not even to say the system is entirely blameless- just that personal responsibility is the most important.

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>>730901043
stop being a junior college dropout

>>730900980
>Thats how 70% of america lives under capitalism you retard
70% have no internet, no computer, and no car? Really? 70%?

>>730900980
>Thats how 70% of america lives under capitalism you retard
So close, you're only off by 50%

>81% of Americans have access to the internet

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Internet_in_the_United_States

>>730901021
this is not to all the people tho, nor does it account for the rise of the females and there every growing hunger to eradicate the male species

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>>730901043
Meanwhile, in the real world, even the chinks are increasingly turning to capitalism to develop their chink country.

Manipulated indeed.

>>730898890
Boss makes a dollar, I make a dime. That's why I poop on company time

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>>730901021

Yeah those things are definitely failing in
Norway
Denmark
Finland
Iceland
The Netherlands

>>730901337

>this is not to all the people tho, nor does it account for the rise of the females and there every growing hunger to eradicate the male species

Lets just all take a moment to say that communist or capitalist at least we're all smarter than this guy.

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>>730900713
The only technological progress the communist countries got was ripped off from the capitalist countries, and what they ended up making was real shitty copies at that. If you could even get one of what they were making.
If the entire world was communist, you can kiss any technological and material progress goodbye.

Though it does amuse me that capitalism may one day bring about the age of robots and 3d printing that will make work unnecessary for a lot of society while providing material abundance, something that marxism never even came close to providing.

>>730901484
https://www.thelocal.dk/20151101/danish-pm-in-us-denmark-is-not-socialist

Try not to be so easy to disprove, okay?

Fvfds

>>730899965
You're pretty right about the DSA, but you're confusing organizational rhetoric with counter culture rhetoric.

The DSA has its own motives, but really the youth are fueled by a number of 3rd options to their bipartisan politics, including Progressive and Libertarian parties. You're thinking the DSA reigns supreme. Politically speaking, yeah. But the youth have their own ideas that don't give a shit about anything related to bipartisanship.

>>730901489
wanna meet me on the street?

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>>730901623

Read the Communist Manifesto. It's short as fuck and straightforward.

>>730900980
I was born working class, I just did well in school, graduated with honours, and became an associate at an investment bank, and many of my friends share a similar story. Also, most Americans don't live like that, most Americans own many luxuries and can feed themselves to excess, they can go on holiday, they own a car and most make enough to live comfortably, sonething that would be found only Amongst ungst the ruling class in an extremely socialist or communist nation.

>>730901690
I have a ccw sooo bring it on

>>730901484
You mean where all the white people are?

But seriously though, 1. those countries aren't communist 2. they are capitalist market economies, with a high-tax burden to fund social programs 3. they sure as hell do not have collective farming

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>>730901565

>we can't invest in education, healthcare, and clean energy using government money because that's socialism
*it's overwhelmingly proven that investing in these things with government money objectively creates better, stronger countries*
>yeah but that's not real socialism

>>730901758

"most Americans ... can do luxurious things" Dude, no. When was the last time you paid any attention to the wealth distribution in your country? loool

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>>730901410
Open any history book to see what happened when Mao tried to institute communal farming. See how many millions died.

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>>730895984
are you prepared to have everything you own ripped from you, redistributed, and you dropped down back to an african mudhut shithole?
because that's communism.
are you prepared to have any sort of advancement you come up with stolen, destroyed, or get you a nice hemp necktie? because that's communism.
are you prepared to have the state - or at least the military - fuck you long and hard at every chance they get?
because that's communism.

fuck off with this shit, and get on the fucking chopper.

>>730901421
Then be the boss you dumbass.

>>730901810

When did I ever say those things were socialist? Fucking every country does that. Is literally anything a government does socialism? Government predates marx, bro.

You're changing goalposts so fast I'm getting whiplash.

>>730901864

LOL XD

we don't live in the third world dude

>>730901535
>Though it does amuse me that capitalism may one day bring about the age of robots and 3d printing that will make work unnecessary for a lot of society while providing material abundance, something that marxism never even came close to providing.

And how do people acquire that "material abundance" if "work unnecessary" (iow - nobody needs to pay them to work).

The problem of capitalism has never been that it can't produce wealth. Its problem is that it concentrates that wealth in the hands of the few. In "the age of robots" where work is unnecessary the vast majority of people will be unable to sell their labor for money, which means they can not partake of that supposed material abundance. At that point it really will be "socialismo o muerte".

>>730901484
>Oh guys they are happy in this country which means their country has no flaws and it couldn't be because of other factors.
Yeah, they also some of the most stupid countries in Europe. How do you even quantify happiness anyway?

>>730895984

Пoшeл нaхyй. CCCP - этo пoлнeйшee гoвнo

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>>730901953
yes, the same happened with collective farming under Stalin. And in Venezuela. And Cambodia. And many other workers paradises. Let's not forget The Peoples Temple. Communism in its most pure form.

>>730901690
Out on the streets, that's where we'll meet...
You make the night, I always cross the line
Tightened our belts, abuse ourselves
Get in my way, I'll put you on your shelf
Another day, some other way
I'm gonna go, but then I'll see you again
I've had enough, we've had enough
Cold in vain, you said
I knew right from the beginning
That you would end up winnin'
I knew right from the start
You'd put an bullet through my heart

Round and round

>>730901864
Wealth distribution doesn't matter.

>>730895984
Пиздyй в Ceвepнyю Кopeю, ecли тaк пo Coвкy cocкyчилcя.
Taм вce чтo тeбe нaдo - нищeтa, paбcтвo, фюpep-гeнceк, ГУЛAГ и жpaтвa пo тaлoнaм.

> No labour camps

Why? Labour camps are a better idea then putting everyone in a building where their potential skills go to waste.

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>>730902247
Warren is the best Ratt

>>730902348
yeah google translates not doing much for me

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>>730902349
Yeah, what good ever came out of a Capitalistic office building?

>>730899490
>Become more valuable to other people

That's what I'm advocating, anon. Declaring rope day for the bourgeoisie increases the value of every worker. I'm glad we're on the same page.

>>730902525
You are literally retarded.

>>730901196
This isn't even a radical leftist thought, but it's conservatives like you who try to demonize leftist politics and essentially you're adding fuel to the fire when there wasn't any need to be that opposed to a new thought.

I don't like conservatism, partly because of this. Doing so confirms a lot of biases, which in turn reflect upon how ignorant you look right now.

You imply that understanding systematic issues leads to inaction, lack of success. Apparently, your friend understood his own circumstances. In his own way, he understood the system and played a hand to find success. But what do we say of those who migrate to this country, seeking a better life that was promised to them by The American Dream, capitalism, the chance to do better?

Most of the time, we just say fuck them. A lot of people are unwilling to fight for American values that have put us on top, because most of the time the people in power have moved past their own immigrant ancestry. This SYSTEM makes it very difficult for the people lower in class to succeed, no matter how you frame it. It takes a stronger, smarter, and lucky person to rise to the top from the bottom. And if PEOPLE in our SYSTEM (including you and I, to fight politically) does not spend time funding education and healthcare, among other necessities of life, then we essentially give power to an oppressive system. So that responsibility you just mentioned - yeah, its important. But to think that a person can act rationally if they are uneducated (not understanding the system, othe or not understanding the language, for inatance), then you've already gone off the deep end and into dogmatic neoliberalism. At that point, I can't help you.

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>>730902098
With super abundance, prices will fall to the point that people will be able to afford an abundant living with minimal work.

It's already happening with food, and we have lots of severely obese poor people. Poor people also have air conditioning, computers, video games, endless entertainment, etc. Poor people are vastly wealthier than they were 200 years ago after 200 years of capitalism, but people don't seem to realize it because they are always focused on the wealth gap rather than the improvement in their material circumstances in absolute terms.

>>730902492

That chip likely came out of a Chinese factory. A prison labour force would mean less outsourcing and even less immigration needed

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>>730901864
Poor people in the US have iPhones, big screen TVs, SUVs and plenty of Cheetos.

And are part owners of many cruise ships.

>>730902700
They mostly come out of US fabs you ignorant tool.

Where do you fools come from?

Honestly, global communism will come at some point in history but it's likely not going to be in our lifetime. It's not your duty to contribute to destroying capitalism; it will inevitably collapse anyway.

Maybe the shit that's going on in the world right now shows that people are angry with the system. Trump in America, Wilders in Europe etc. they all call themselves right-wing but if you look at their attitudes and general way of thinking, they're really leftists.

Something is coming, can't you feel it? Might be World War 3, might be the first stage of the collapse of capitalism. Either way, you can grab some popcorn, sit back and watch the shitstorm unveil.

>>730902098
Capitalism doesn't produce wealth, labor does.

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OP outta here

thanks for the semi civil discussing bois

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>>730902190
You seem to be a cool dude, you have the same pictures that I do. First of the microprocessor team (I think that's Motorola?) and now Jamestown.

>>730902668

Check out what that thread actually says.

>implying individual responsibilities

This was the thing that set me off. If he's not a 'real leftist' than that's one thing, but I was arguing with him and his corrosive view.

Interesting how I'm representative of all conservatives but he's not the same for leftists?

>>730902846
You are too simple too understand capitalism.

>>730902973
Let's be real, it's deliberate ignorance

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>>730902927
>Plays the victim card

>>730902973
>I have no argument
>I'll just say 'u dumb' that'll show em

kek

>>730902822
>It's not your duty to contribute to destroying capitalism; it will inevitably collapse anyway.
That's what people said about communism in the 50s, and they were right.

>>730902898
Oops I mean Intel
>filename

>>730902927
If you learned how to debate without having to rage and insult people, maybe you'd learn a thing or two.

>>730902846
>>730903206
you're technically correct but you're willfully omitting segments of the argument. this is an "if-then" statement.
>if capitalism, then labor is capitalistic in nature; money or goods/services for goods/services
>as such, labor under this system can be considered part of this system
>due to the fact that said labor transaction actively contributes to the market, therefore furthering capitalism

>>730902846
Capitalism is an economic system. Communism is an economic system. Labor exists in both.

The question is, which system better manages and directs labor to create more wealth?
Which system provides the best tools so that each unit of labor is multiplied the most?

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>>730902898
>Jonestown

Jamestown was an early Pilgrim settlement.

Processor team is Intel - Andy Grove, Gordon Moore (Moore's Law) and Robert Noyce.

I'm an old Bay Area guy.

Here is OC of where Hewlett and Packard went to work in Palo Alto each morning for many years.

>>730903305
Yeah I would at least have learned that one thing.

This is 4chan

>>730903206
Well that wasn't really an argument. Also it's the truth. I doubt he has much knowledge of Hayek an Keynes; he's a fucking brain let babbeling on about things he doesn't understand.

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>>730903479
Here is Candlestick just before it got tore down.

>>730902822

Idk man if you look into the field of automation a lot of experts are saying major shifts in the workforce are going to happen in a matter of decades, not centuries.

For example, truck driving is the most popular job for men in 29 US states. What's going to happen to all those jobs as driverless shipping fleets are implemented in the coming decades? Capitalism is becoming a nonviable economic model. Seems like shit may be hitting the fan faster than anyone thinks.

*sniff sniff*
I smell >slightly autistic< anon lurking ITT...

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>>730903199
>Why do you pretend the people you disagree with have this idea

>The guy I was arguing with said that

>Wow now you're playing the victim

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>>730903479
And here's where Packards were made for many years ; )

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>>730895984
>Tell my why I shouldnt become a full blown communist?

I literally can't

>>730902682
Weak. The cost of food hasn't declined much. And the "obese poor people" meme is garbage. Poor people are often fat because they eat cheap shit food loaded with (subsidized) corn syrup and calories but few nutrients. Look at the price of housing, the price of medical care. All steadily rising, as wages stagnate or decline and personal debt of the poor and middle class grows. You are a pied piper bro.

And as for your shit about 200 years of capitalism. The poorest Russians in 1989 had more material abundance and electric gadgets than the poorest Russians in 1916. So I guess that means Soviet Communism works. So easy.

>>730903785
>doesnt know what victim means

Its ok nigger, its all gonna be ok just an hero

>>730903736
I doubt it. At one point 70% of population was involved in agriculture, now it is 1%. At one point you had tens of thousands of people at least weaving cloth, then the automated looms put them all out of work. If human truckers are no longer needed, they will eventually find other jobs. How many millions work in the computer and video game fields, or are making a living making youtube videos, all jobs that didn't exist 40 years ago. The economy will shift and people will find some employment. Increasing economic efficiency where less labor is required has always been our friend.
Besides, you don't hear people complaining about the tons of truckers put out of work by trains who can carry 1000x more product with the same number of drivers.

>>730904182

God, how are you even literate?

>>730904249
truckerfag here. you aren't gonna completely eliminate the human from the loop for ~50 years. not because the job is necessarily complicated, but because there's some situations that an AI currently would have extreme problems solving without equipment damage in the process. also, sometimes experience beats algorithms. i've seen it.
but you are right, new jobs will be found or created, but that's some far future shit.

>>730904166
>Weak. The cost of food hasn't declined much.
Oh, but it has. The price of food and how much salary the average person must spend on food has dropped exponentially over the last 200 years.

The poorest Russians in 1989 had more material abundance and electric gadgets than the poorest Russians in 1916. So I guess that means Soviet Communism works.
First of all, refer to >>730901535
Secondly, compare the poorest russians to the poorest americans in 1989 and compare the economic systems. Or the poorest people in cuba or north korea vs the poorest in america.

>the price of medical care.
Medical care is the most unfree, regulated, subsidized, and government controlled sector of the economy, and has been since the early 60s. It's no coincidence that costs are exploding. Medical care is no where near functioning as a capitalist free market system

> the price of housing
It's not the cost of building housing that has been skyrocketing. It is the market price, which keeps getting jacked up higher and higher by people buying property with borrowed money. The more the price goes up, the more money they borrow. And they can do this because the central banks are keeping interest rates extremely low as they pump trillions of new dollars into the economy, causing inflation, especially in the housing sector.

A similar phenomenon is also responsible for the explosion of college tuition rates in recent years, for that matter.

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>>730895984

There's a reason why Jesus invented Communism.

It works.

>>730904978
>Secondly, compare the poorest russians to the poorest americans in 1989 and compare the economic systems. Or the poorest people in cuba or north korea vs the poorest in america.

This is what's known as moving the goalposts. You first said capitalism is great because poor people in the US got less poor over a long period of time. I pointed out that the same thing happened in Soviet Russia and you change the subject the issue to something else.

Now we have to instead compare poor Russians to poor Americans - in 1989 for some reason. But this is now comparing two very different countries that started in very different places. Russia in 1916 wasn't comparable to the US in 1916 to begin with. Neither, for that matter were Cuba or NK. If you want to take third world countries and compare them to US living standards, you can get bad comparisons with capitalist countries too, like Haiti for example. But why would we try to compare countries that didn't start out in even a remotely comparable position?

When you lose you just move the goalposts. As I said, weak.

>>730902492
>thinking that technology created by capitalists is an example of how good capitalism is
where do you think they get the money to research that shit? it's all govt military contracts , meaning it's paid for by the tax payer.

>>730902700
so, slavery

>>730902682
Why should people not pay attention to the gap? Way more wealth is being created and the % capitalists are skimming has grown so much that the actual real wage of the average american worker is in decline, ignoring it lets them win

>>730895984
>No, I'm not talking about USSR communism, nobody dying, no labor camps...
But REAL communism - right? Guess what, literally every country that wanted this failed and had it's vision bastardized by motherfuckers. Communism is a good idea as long as it stays on paper.
>Like why is would it be impractical to try communism in the US?
Because you've got a large portion of people who would want communism to reap benefits they didn't work for, for nothing else. If everyone loved the usa and was willing to work their ass off for a common goal it could work out. You might see how this is doomed to fail.
>Fuck the banks, theyre complete leeches
Not into economy, i don't know, and i refuse to base my opinion on youtube videos.
>We can finally invest in education and healthcare, which has been proven to be one of the the most effective investments a government can make
Really depends, here in germany many people just study something without actually caring to go through with it because they're too lazy or something - it doesn't matter because the state pays for it. I've seen cases where people would be students for almost 10 years without getting that degree and ending up driving pizza. I think studying should cost that much to make it clear to the student that this isn't your free time but a privilige.
>We can finally invest in this crumbling infrastructure and a green energy system that will be more efficient and cost effective in the long run
Infrastructure detoriates over time, so from an efficiency point of view you should take care of it as late as possible. Green energy is far from efficient, cost efficient or appliable in a large scale because we lack the means to save energy. People would start rioting if the super ball was on and suddenly their tv turned off because there's no wind.
>Collective and local farming would both save energy and efficiency
Large scale farming has been proven to be more efficient than small scale farming.
cont.

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>>730895984
>>730908245
>And you can keep your fucking guns...Nobody is gonna take them away you idiots
I wonder who's going to enforce the new laws against pissed off rednecks... I'm sure it would work without disarmment.
BUT technically speaking guns don't have shit to do with communism so i'll ignore it.
It would make the already impossible even harder.

Because it is a "faerie tale" in the truest sense of the word, and a modern sense of the word....
It exists only in the realm of ideas.
In the material existence of this world it would most likely be unfeasible.... even if we had one of those star trek replicators there are subtle nuances to the material world that make a perfect version of the idea absolutely impossible.
Maybe you can make a SIMS like game out of it.
You goofy red piece of shit.... hypocrite as usual saying "no USSR communism" and using their imagery.
Go suck on Saturn's dick like you usually dream of doing every night.

>>730895984
>I dont know why this isnt common sense
Because you have a 6-year-old's understanding of economics and human behavior