This is for politics that don't belong in >>>/

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Found many of the questions stupid and a couple not even questions.

>>730560559
>>730561202

You're both cucked faggots that will be gassed when the Trumpenreich reaches its final form

>>730561701
I bet you would get along well with the Clintons

>>730561764
You sound mighty triggered

>>730561786
I would in my privatized prison.

>>730561989
Zoinks

Lotta fags in itt

>>730563041
>in in this thread
Learn a book

>>730563246
learn to grammer

>>730563246

Oh sorry i made a typo! STFU YOU FUCKING ASSHOLE! I'M A NAVY SEAL AND I WILL FUCK YOUR MOTHER

>>730563318
>wants to cut spending on working class people
>wants to give corporations big tax cuts

Ah, yes... the working class hero...

>>730563517
triggered, cuck?

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I feel like it's cheaty to put "tradition" against both science progression AND social progression. Because science is important, but modern "social progression" is really just autistic screeching for rights for groups that'd be treated just fine if they'd chill the fuck out.

>>730564334
What is a social science?

>>730564334
Science progression includes things like human cloning, stem cells and transhumanism. Things that a lot of traditionalists are against, or think should be at least confined to the military.

>>730564562
A large scale con.

>>730564562
Not something I'd consider to be classified with legit sciences like biology, chemistry, physics, etc. Heck geology is more of a science than that

>>730564812
See I think that's fair to be put against tradition, but I don't think it's fair to put "Are you okay with faggots doing whatever they want?" with "Is technological improvement important to society?"

>>730560559
aye comrade

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>>730560559
I'm an agnostic, SJW-hating, gay marriage-supporting, anti-drug centralist and there's nothing you can do about it.

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what does this mean?

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>>730560559

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watchu gonna do

>>730565145
yo, comrade

>>730565295
no one cares? you're literally nobody

>>730565380
it just spits an ideology based on your responses. maybe look more into social liberalism and see if it fits you. if not, oh well.

>>730565720
recommend you read volume 1 of capital or maybe conquest of bread. conquest of bread is a little more anarchist though.

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>>730560559

>>730565917
I know what social liberalism is, I'm more in for the Social-democrats

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left libertairan master race reporting in

>>730565986
>When you just guzzle that capitalist kool-aid...

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>>730565986
I like it.

>>730566098
>when you guzzle the commie cum

>>730566097
>Using fascist terminology to describe your leftism
I think we can do better than that comrade.

>>730565917
Das Kapital was alright

>>730566290
>when ur this triggered because someone likes democracy

>>730566381
>when you're this triggered
>>730566290
>because someone likes socialism

>>730566696
kill urself pls

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Commies deserve the bullet.

>>730566648
>when u cant come up with ur own jokes

>>730566735
Bitte

>>730566766
Why do you hate democracy and freedom?

>>730566856
Communism isn't democracy and it isn't freedom. It's quite the opposite.

>>730565129
Traditionalists are implicitly against both.

>>730566856
Communism is to freedom as the Italian army is to effective

>>730566923
>>730567000
Communism/Marxism is democratic control over the production and the enterprise. Read more.

>>730560559
I got a free helicopter ride for you. Fucking commie

>>730567085
What if the demos wants to engage in capitalism?

>>730567103
Oh, looks like you got lost on your way to >>>/pol/

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>>730567085
it's state control over the means of production, and no, "the state = the people" is not a valid counter-argument

>>730567187
>Voting to have someone take away your freedom and voice in how you make and distribute the profits you produce.

Unlikely, but possible I guess

>>730560559
just kys

>>730567303
Communism is the absence of the state, money, and class. You don't have to take my word for it. Look it up yourself instead of sipping the capitalist kool-aid

>>730567446
What you're talking about is anarchy, communism requries a state to redistribute the wealth.

>>730567430
maybe one day you'll wake the fuck up

>>730567555
State control over the means of production is State Capitalism. The USSR is a good example of this.

>>730560559

>>730565129
that's cherry picking. you're either progressive, or you're not. these things happen because they are connected. you can't stop individual freedom just because you hate gays.
just like i can't stop you from masturbating to traps.

>>730565380
it means you have no clue about anything and answer based on your feelings.

>>730565720
you're fine. just don't prevent people further to the left to do their thing because you feel like your standpoint has the moral highground.

>>730565986
>>730566696
>>730566766
fuck off.

>>730567556
>Let's keep it civil.
>maybe one day you'll wake the fuck up

kek

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>>730567622
pic got removed for no reason.

>>730567623
it's a quote from the departed. pretty good movie. i recommend it.

>>730567555
anarchic communism is the only communism.
at least until we have an automated distribution system.

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>Never knew how to call my Political orientation
>Neither a libtards nor a Righty
This outcome genuinely surprised me

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TBH, the EU & UN questions had me doubt the most.

>>730567622
>>730567673
Anonymous boards need more vocal leftists...

>>730567789
you can be socially liberal without being an SJW-loving, islamophile cuck.
it just means people should have individual freedom without the state interfering too much. granted, some people are too dumb to be left ungoverned, but that's another topic.

>>730567784
>automated distribution system.
lmao

>>730566766
>>730567673
>>730567789

Is this site some kind of Libertarian propaganda thing? They call 80% of the shit Libertarian something

>>730567789
Liberals are the worst... Less predictable than right-wingers but that makes them a little more dangerous.

>>730566696
He said politics that don't belong in /pol/

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I contributed

>>730567996
Libertarian describes the state control aspect of politics. You can (kind of) be left or right wing libertarian.

>>730567866
i agree. but then some dudebro comes along with all the machismo in the world, thinking that if he worked hard for his alleged wealth, everyone else should have to crawl through shit as well.
kinda makes it hard to argue, when you can't even get through a person's ego.

>>730567978
yea, super funny. totally never gonna happen. automation is a myth and hasn't caused a complete shift in employment sectors.
so it's fucking NUTS to think it might have an influence on governments in the future. fuck me, right?

>>730568017
Liberalism in the west has literally nothing in common with it's roots. Same with feminism. What once was a fight for the personal freedoms of everybody turned into the fight for superiority of a set of dogmas and ideas

>>730568125
Well, you're certainly better than this fucker
>>730566696

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>>730560559

>>730567996
The first word describes the political, the second the economic view

>>730568127
I get it, but how is this >>730567849 libertarian, unless they just use it as a synonym for anarchist.

>>730567996
Anyone who values civil liberties is either a libertarian, anarchist or centrist. Most people are generally put off by the authoritarian policies of the mainstream political parties, so the high frequency of this type of result is not entirely unlikely.

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>>730561202

>>730568178
Balance of power is key for any system to work. Communism does not have that, it's actually extremely naive.

>>730568261
It is kind of a synonym for anarchist. Anti-state, pro-liberty type stuff

>>730568371
Evidence, please?

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Commies get out. REEEEEEEEEEEEEE

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ok

>>730568801
triggered, cuck?
>>730568849
welcome, comrade

>>730568564
You type like someone who is in their early 20s or late teenage years, therefore you're too young to know anything about the real world, therefore you're naive.

>>730568801
>Views the don't fit /pol/ thread
>Not /pol/ views thread

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I found this pretty cool

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Exactly what I thought.

>>730568371
alright, i'll bite. why is idealism the same as naivety for you?
because i don't base my future utopian system on the feeling that "everyone should be equal and free to decide how to live their lives, because i don't want to work XD"

it's a bit more complicated than that. capitalism is dying, everyone who denies that is delusional. in a world where a little elite owns more than half the world, you can't be defending it by saying "they worked hard for it. if you work just as hard, you can achieve the same".
this elitist system has been self-sufficient for generations, slowly expanding. we have a disenfranchised underclass, and a non represented middle class that actually thinks by kicking down on the underclass, they will be able to become rich.
we have corporations that control governmental decisions and people who vote for corporate liars in hope for change. they don't even realize that their vote will change nothing, because it's voting inside the rules of a system that is built to protect itself, and by that, the elites benefiting from it.

so tell me now, why do you think my view is naive? and what's your alternative?

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>>730568909
>>730568920
I'll do what I damn well please, pinkos.

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>>730560559
fucking lefties and righties... you're both fucking retarded

>>730568915
Nice ad hominem. Try using some actual logic next post.

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>>730560559
what the fuck OP KYS

>>730563517
SEALs are pussies, There are many beefy A-ganger retards that could fuck them up in a straight up fight.

>>730568915
>Implying age determines knowledge about socio-economic themes

>>730569004
no steppy pweez

>>730569015
liberals...

>>730569043
triggered?

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>>730569004
ancap fucks aren't people.

>>730568963
ok what you're talking about is distribution of wealth and the eventual need for minimum basic income. sorry if I don't want to destroy the entire system and then cross my fingers and hope a utopian paradise magically emerges.

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>>730560559
Interesting, it calls me Liberal although I wouldn't call myself Liberal, I think because it's a fairly Americanised set of questions my lack of religion swings the result as it's often tied with tradition in questions.

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>>730569015
you're so mediocre, do you have any passion in your life?

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>>730560559
Fairly accurate, I did feel alot of the questions lacked nuance

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>>730560559

>>730569202
https://www.marxists.org/archive/marx/works/1880/soc-utop/

No one is talking about utopia. It might not be the best system, but it's better than capitalism.

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>>730560559
Too many commies in here

>>730569210
American Liberal is pretty right of center.

>>730569244
I like you, anon.

>>730569202
dude, i'm not a fucking idiot. i won't scream for revolution, thinking that a utopia will emerge out of the chaos.
it's going to be step by step. if you're pro redistribution of wealth and an adequate basic income (and in a step later, for an unconditional basic income), you're probably on my side anyway.
just don't call me naive, if you think in longer terms (100 years+), you will realize that you'll come to the same, or at least similar conclusions as i did.

>>730569374
>when u hate commies because you think their authoritarian
>but then u more authoritarian than them

:O

on 4 issues,rt vs left,freedom as in rule of law property rights.
small state vs mega state
the role of government,primarily to keep safe from foreign buzzardry
government debt,as in the family,do not spend what you do not have,
rules of law ALL must abide by them, THAT is equality
all are not born with equal ability strength stamina,native smarts, me pay for anothers inability or lack of will to plug away and make a pile?
nope,ainna gonna do it
the spectrum you post is arguments for professors in faculty lounges after they smoke doob.meh

>>730569439
>if you're pro redistribution of wealth and an adequate basic income (and in a step later, for an unconditional basic income), you're probably on my side anyway.

No, I'm not. You want to completely remove capitalism, I want it to be more regulated.

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>>730560559

>>730569554
>patching holes in an inherently broken system
kek

>>730569523
im sorry, but i didn't understand that much :/

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Did I win?

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We are not that different, after all.

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>>730569374

>>730569689
u certainly didn't lose.

>>730569244
incorrect... you do know its okay to like some policies and hate others??
its not all just black and white kiddo... get woke

>>730569664
>capitalism is flawed therefore communism is better

>>730569374
you're actually the worst kind of person. undecided and opportunistic in every topic, except for the economy.
let me guess, you're upper middle class white male. probably from a rural area. your father is/was your hero.
you don't hate gays, but you don't want to see them kissing in public.
you think it's good that drug addicts are treated as criminals.
if you see a "this guy touched your girl in the club, what do you do?" thread, you answer with "i fucking kick his teeth in".
you think everything you own belongs to you because you worked so hard for it.
you think everyone who is poor is actually lazy.

sums you up right?

>>730569778
>putting words in others mouth
whew laddy

i mean, yeah, i think communism is better. but, its not better because capitalism sucks, its better because it is democratic, more freedom, etc

>>730569776
That's the funny thing, you can have two people with the exact opposite views and both would be centrists. This arithmetic sum model doesn't really mean anything.

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>>730560559

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The communism in this thread makes me sick.

>>730569890
ya know, the quiz is just for fun. it isn't gospel

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>>730560559

I didn't understand some of the questions, but I did my best.

>>730569940
Why? Because you're ignorant?

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>>730569869
>mfw

>>730569890
implying both with complete exact opposite views would ever be on the same side of a policy...

>>730569554
you'll get there eventually. capitalism can't be saved. the whole system of debt and the market that's completely disconnected from labor, they are bound to fail.
people who work inside this system know it. they try to get as much out of it as possible.
that's why rich people are so determined when it comes to protecting their wealth and their private property. they know that without leaving some, or most of their wealth behind for their offspring, they probably won't be able to reach the same heights. because this system nurtures their elites until it collapses.
and at one point, this system will have to change, or it will fall.

>>730570001
He didn't imply that at all

communism has never worked...
PROVE ME WRONG

>protip

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Eh, some questions need more nuance to actually represent my true answers. thats why it's so few questions I guess.

>>730569999
>when u got nothin left so you pull out this weak shit to save face

>>730570081
you're supposed to back your point up with evidence first, then we refute.... is this your first time posting?

>>730570081
And nor will it ever because people like Bill the brain surgeon see John the cashier reap the same rewards and wonder why they bother
>Also corruption

>>730570012
unregulated capitalism is cancer.
the federal reserve is cancer.
communism is cancer.

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>>730560559
Am I win yet?

>>730567996
Libertarian as in authority vs liberty, not the political party. You see a lot of it since thankfully the west has tended towards the libertarian side after the enlightenment.

>>730570167
You actually lost....

I really wish these quizzes would have more about production, since that is what actually separates the economic systems.

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Not too crazy about some of the questions.

>>730570142
thats the evidence... its never worked cunt. do you understand logic yet or are you to busy buying a starbucks? you hipster social studies pleb.

anybody who values tradition needs to be exiled

>>730570081
What is north korea?

>>730570081
it hasn't. but it wasn't really communism to begin with.
just like national socialism wasn't really socialism.

both were in their core fascist dictatorships. state-directed economies, detached from any ideal to further the world population's quality of life.

>>730570263
>Every minority in every country ever

>>730570155
>People get no personal gratification from saving lives, or anything, they only do it for money

Try again.

>>730570260
>getting this triggered
cuck

>>730570142
Honestly, the list is huge.
Easy ones to point out are Russia, China, Venezuela, North Korea, Vietnam, and so on. European countries that practice a lighter version of this are also on a downward spiral. Sweden, Greece, France. Greece and France have shit employment, huge debt and failing economy. Sweden on the other hand is becoming a shit hole full of scummy Islamist.

>>730569991
Grow some balls and earn your own money, you raging commie faggot.
>Triggered

>>730570337
They may, I didn't argue they wouldn't but a person who takes on a massively higher level of responsibility/risk will always expect a commensurate return - this is human nature.

>>730570155
you realize that a thought through communist utopia still rewards hard work, right?
nobody keeps you from getting more by working more. you mistake this for the shit that's north korea.

corruption is the reason why the distribution system has to be automated. before that, i doubt that communism can be successfully implemented.
until then, we can only further ideas that close the gap between rich and poor.

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OP is a dirty communist

>>730570418
still waiting to be proved wrong kid

>>730569985
you did good

>>730570443
disregard this guy's opinion. he has absolutely no idea what he is talking about.
european countries that focus on social aspects of democracy actually have the highest standard of living, happiest population and strongest economy.
and comparing greece with sweden shows how little you know about the whole thing, you total fucking idiot.

>>730570507
What you are talking about doesn't and will never exist, humans as a race will never allow it to function. There will always be people who will cheat the system through corruption and violence no matter how fair and impartial it is.

>>730570636
/thread

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>>730570507

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>>730570507
commie

>>730570636
a system that can be cheated isn't a very good system, don't you think?
and i'm not talking about a perfect system here, i'm talking about something that's better than the status quo.
and, while we're at it, why don't we try to create a system that's as good as it can get? why keep capitalism, a system that's built on the relationship between deptor and deptee? it has never worked, it will never work. the more governmental influence you try to implement, the more corporate focus will fall on influencing the governmental decisions.
that's what's happening now. capitalism can't be saved. let's salvage what's left, regulate it for the good of the population, and hope that people start to realize that the voice of the masses is good for more than just voting for people who represent only their benefactor's interests.

>>730570600
Well you're asking which countries use a more socialistic model. Greece is heavily social program dependent and its dying. I didn't compare them in the first place either. I pointed out a few countries that do use some form of it. If you think that also nulls the point that there is MASSIVE abuse of the programs by all countries, which includes Germany along with those other three. The Union is dying my friend, there's a reason the Holy Roman Empire collapsed.

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>>730570507
wwrr

>>730570874
>a system that can be cheated isn't a very good system, don't you think?
It's the only system, anything created by us can be cheated by us.

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>>730570874

>>730570816
>>730570850
those arguments are so fucking retarded and don't represent any of my views, so please fuck off.

>>730570443
>shit employment, huge debt and failing economy.
sounds like the US lol

>>730570452
>being this triggered
cuck

>>730570472
To look at people in capitalist society and conclude that human nature is egoism, is like looking at people in a factory where pollution is destroying their lungs and saying that it is human nature to cough. - Andrew Collier

>>730570550
you have given no examples, no evidence

>>730570877
Also, European countries are small in comparison to the rest of the world and thus delay their fall with incredibly high taxes to support their 10%+ unemployment rate

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>>730560559
Mine

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Centrist reporting in.

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>>730570945
does this suit you better dad

>>730570978
>>730570553
>>730570536
>>730570138
>>730569940
>>730569374
>>730568801
>>730568430
>>730566766
>>730566696
>>730565986
>>730563138
>>730562461
>>730561701

So many cucks ITT

>>730570816
>>730570850
>>730570927
>>730570891

>when you slowly kill millions of people a year through starvation and lack of easily preventative care because they cant afford it
>implying these memes are based on anything

weak

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>>730571086

Takes one to know one, anon.

Everyone on 4chan is a cuck you little shit

>>730570995
You don't need to look at a capitalist society, you can look at hunt/gather tribes and see it in action.

>>730570891
>>730570927
jesus christ, do you even try?

>>730570877
stop. it hurts. you compare the european union with the roman empire? what the fuck dude.
>European countries that practice a lighter version of this are also on a downward spiral. Sweden, Greece, France. Greece and France have shit employment, huge debt and failing economy. Sweden on the other hand is becoming a shit hole full of scummy Islamist.
do you even understand the things that happen in europe? do you understand how governmental budgets and public spending work? taxes? anything?
and do you have any idea why sweden takes so many refugees? because the other countries ignore the crisis and insist on their national interests. it's their egotism that causes the immigration issues at hand.
now stop commenting.

>>730570906
agreed, but if you create a system where cheaters have little to gain, why bother cheating? capitalism makes it extremely profitable to cheat though.

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>>730560559
I'm trying to make a star for best nation plz halp

>>730571276
Your statement implies cheaters somehow follow the rules of the system, if you're breaking the strictures of the system then what is inhibiting you benefiting greatly in a regulated system.

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>>730560559
welp

>>730571276
>now stop commenting.

The communist shows his true colors. Pesky freedom of speech always getting in the way of equality.

>>730571397
>Closest Match: Centrist

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>>730571006
>liberty
you make me sick

>>730571442
>Progressive

wewewew lad

>>730571276
I compared it to the HRE because the fall of it was due to the enlightenment and the want to be FREE of a totalitarian state. Power was to be no longer handled by a Pope or King but by the people. That's what I compared the fall of the Union with it because it is relevant. They're both huge totalitarian states that don't let the individual countries to decide on the policies it created. The reason that there are so many Refugees isn't Syria's fault, its the bloody Muslim world's fault. They've been killing each other for over 1000 years and guess what. Syria is ruled by a dictator, which is totalitarian, which is endorsed by a former KGB communist. The parallels are astounding.
P.S More than half of all Syrian refugees aren't actually from Syria

>>730571372
ok, we are kind of derailing here, but i'll try to clear up my point of view.
you will always have cheaters, d'accord.
so how do you handle that issue? by taking away the benefits from cheating the system.
how do you do that? by providing people with enough, so they don't feel obliged to cheat.
how do you do that? by a just distribution of work, individual property and the right AND the chance to decide how you want live your life.

so what if someone wants to cheat? who cares? everyone has as much as they need, why would anyone even think about pursuing people who want more than they need?
and why would anyone even bother?

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Classic liberal with a consciousness

>>730571692
>how do you do that? by providing people with enough, so they don't feel obliged to cheat.

this is what I meant when I called you naive

>>730571677
Actually sorry, I've gotten a little off topic, my apologies

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when you're centrist in every way

>>730571794
I think he's trying to say, as long as the average Joe can find a stable job and income, then it doesn't matter if another tries to exploit the system because everyone is doing fine.

>>730571692
>how do you do that? by providing people with enough, so they don't feel obliged to cheat.
As other anon said, that is naive, people throughout the world have "enough" and uncountably more than "enough" yet still trample other humans to the ground in their efforts for more - this is not a symptom of capitalism, this is a symptom of humanity.

>>730571588
at least we're not this guy>>730571715

>>730571891
you almost cucked yourself

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>>730560559

>>730571203
Plenty of evidence showing hunter/gatherer tribes valued community over individuals.

>>730570906
>It's the only system
What is feudalism?

>>730571438
>freedom of speech
Looks like you don't know how that works

>>730571677
>dictator ... which is endorsed by a ... communist
Not going to address the communist part, just that the US has NEVER installed dictators or overthrew democracies to install dictators, right guise???

>>730571975
See >>730570995
quote

>>730571923
If that's true then he's even stupider than I initially thought he was. Allowing people to cheat is pragmatically no different from incentivizing people to cheat. Any form of destruction of a system is going to... you guessed it, destroy the system.

>>730572177
Cheating... in a one person one vote direct democracy... It ain't easy, but it ain't impossible neither

>>730571438
you're entitled to your opinion. that doesn't mean it's of any value, especially not if it's unfounded and wrong.
stupid argument from a stupid person.

>>730571677
>european union
>totalitarian state
>don't let individual countries decide
dude STOP already. that's not how the judicial system in the EU works. the member states voted to be part of the union and all of them benefit more from them than they suffer. there is a european parliament, where votes concerning legislation are counted, so it's a textbook democratic system.
if you criticize the pace of the EU's reactions to crisis and national changes, you're right, the EU is fucking slow. but your points are fucking ridiculous.

>The reason that there are so many Refugees isn't Syria's fault, its the bloody Muslim world's fault
you're a real idiot mate. don't get me wrong, i'm all for taking muslims into responsibility for their actions, especially when it comes to women's rights, machismo, religious extremism etc., but it takes literally 10 seconds to find legitimate sources that explain how the wars in syria, iraq and afghanistan happened.

>P.S More than half of all Syrian refugees aren't actually from Syria
lies. all of the syrian refugees are from syria, or they wouldn't be syrian, you fucking retard.
that doesn't mean that all refugees are from syria, but they don't have to be. syria is not the only shit hole on the planet, there is war in other countries too. and currently, countries develop systems to determine a person's home in a faster way, so they can send them back if their home country is a safe one.

EDUCATE YOURSELF BEFORE TALKING. EVERYTHING YOU SAID IS WRONG.

>>730572325
I have a whole doc on syria if anyone is interested.

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Am I the only social democrat here?

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>>730560559

>>730572325
>you're entitled to your opinion. that doesn't mean it's of any value
Weren't you only just talking about how communism was a democratic system? You're about as authoritarian as it gets.

>>730572520
Actually, it says you're a democratic socialist, which is different. A Social Democrat still believes that capitalism is a good system, whereas a Democratic Socialist believes a socialist economic system is more appropriate.

>>730570443
Except if you did your research, you'd know Communism wasn't the system that the Soviets used, but rather the system the Soviets allegedly wanted to use in the future. At many points, their economy worked as more of a state capitalist structure.

>European countries that practice a lighter version of this are also on a downward spiral. Sweden, Greece, France. Greece and France have shit employment, huge debt and failing economy

As for the problems faced in Europe, it's safe to say that we're facing a lot of the same issues in the US. Trump got elected by white working class people who were dealing with economic issues in their areas. The retail and record industries are going under, and newer generations are buying less. And the US has been in great debt for quite some time.

>>730566097
Ah comrade
We have some work to do...

>>730572640
>I don't like your opinion and I want you to stop talking about it.
>Oh my god!! Stop pointing a gun to my head to shut me up! Fascist!!!
Basically the same... I can see that.

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bow down to your god fags

>>730571165
>I'm out of comebacks, better insult his dick

>>730571794
explain.

>>730571975
i disagree. look at people in small communities, aside from western socialized life. they don't care about personal gain. it's about living a happy and healthy life inside the community.
there is no basic human drive for greed, only for survival. and the capitalistic systems suggests a permanently impending scarcity, so people hoard money and property.
if you knew, that regardless of what you did, you would always have enough food, a house to live in, a pc to play games on if you feel like it, and generally being able to do pretty much everything you like, why the fuck would you think about cheating?

>>730572177
so instead of allowing people to cheat, because its "pragmatically no different from incentivizing it", you'd rather skip the "allowing" part, and go straight to making it profitable?
that's like watching someone steal a bike, and instead of giving everyone a bike, so nobody has to steal one anymore, you give the bike thief a car instead.

>>730572751
Yours is the most contradictory in the whole thread.

>>730572640
try harder. i'm not shutting him up because i dislike his opinion. i'm telling him his opinion doesn't matter, because it's not based on any facts.
if you like to listen to every lunatic who thinks he has to talk about something he has strong feelings for, you wouldn't have time for much else.

>>730560559
This 8 values thing is stupid. As a nation, you dont have to pick and choose, you can have all of these things.

>>730572749
Your ideology is more important than human rights, democracy and freedom of speech, no matter how you try and spin it. The nature of your posts reveals your authoritarian mentality.

>>730572829
what seems contradictory to you anonfag?

>>730572829
>>730572751
yeah, it's nearly textbook ancap.
NAP, personal freedom, progressive thinking, but still too stupid to see that in the environment of a free market, nothing he wants will ever be possible, except when he's rich.

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>>730572325

i like your style, dude

>>730572928
>if you like to listen to every lunatic who thinks he has to talk about something he has strong feelings for, you wouldn't have time for much else.
except that's literally what democracy is

>>730572977
>The state can control your whole life and YOU can control your whole life!! :DD

>>730571677
>They've been killing each other for over 1000 years

Actually, during the middle ages, most of the Muslim world was internally peaceful. In fact, at one point they were on par with Europe. The poverty and violence started after people invaded them and carved their territory up into countries that didn't make any sense. Then any time one of the countries tries to get a sane government, some asshole comes in and installs a dictator.

>>730573122
What?

>>730572977
I don't think you get the point of the 8 values.

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>>730560559
Come at me

>>730572987
Say we allow all freedom of speech. That means, people who advocate the murder of autistic people, can actively do so. In the end, however, that eliminates the free speech of autistic people because they're fucking dead. Ergo, it isn't free speech to advocate that, it is the opposite.

Try again.

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Goddamn it I'm a fucking social liberal...FUUUUUUUUUCK!!!!

>>730573042
in the environment of the free market anything is possible you faggotrous state cucks. by the way just because i dont share your hardon with authority doesnt make me an ancap. i believe in personal freedom. the state needs to provide free health and education. nothing else. once you have an institution like the state intervene it will mess everything up.

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How much of a faggot am I?

>>730573038
You advocate liberty and progress, but capitalism is a direct antithesis of that.

>>730573048
no, it's not. what you're talking about is the often desired "direct democracy". mostly pushed by right winged populists, because, as i said, every idiot gets to voice their opinion.
in every other democratic system, people have representatives they vote for. that has a number of other issues, but people can at least make sure their representative knows what the fuck he is talking about before they vote.

but, since i stated earlier, the system doesn't work if it only provides candidates that represent a small elite and no other alternatives, or if it represses the eligibility of them.

>>730573225
>>730573279
Cucks

>>730573281
capitalism is the only system that provides financial liberty. go back to your stalinist and communal gulags until you realize capitalism like democracy are the best systems you got.

>>730572810
>instead of giving everyone a bike, so nobody has to steal one anymore

Tell ya what kid. Get out into the real world. Get a clue what people are really like. Then come back here and we can continue this discussion.

>>730573269
>Free health and education
>no state intervention
.... whew leddy...
I guess I'll just let my student debt creditors know that school just pays for itself

>>730573269
i posted quite a bit in this thread and i think it's pretty clear that i'm an anarchist. i just know that capitalism doesn't work.
corporations are based on profit. profit is made through the exploitation of labor. so how can individuals be free, if they can't freely choose where to work?
the argument of "voluntary occupation" is invalid if you have to die of hunger if you don't get a shitty job.

>>730573281
>Capitalism
>Financial liberty
pick one

>>730573281
This post >>730573436
Was meant for >>730573381

>>730573295
fair point, freedom of speech was what I meant. everyone gets to say whatever they want, no matter how moronic. the time that is wasted on talking about stupid things is the price to pay for civil liberties.

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Feels good man.

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Why do all you autists need some test to tell you what type of cuck you are so you can parade around with your labels. You're all pathetic.

>>730573384
i'm 31, i've got a master's degree in economics, i have worked in 3 companies and i've had a business of my own. the things i write in this thread are a gathering of my personal experiences (in the real world), enhanced through countless theories to be adequate for implementation.
you can feel high and might and deny me having a clue all you want.
but maybe you can learn something from me instead.

>>730573164
The Muslim world was not internally peaceful, as the Sunni/Shia split happened quite awhile ago, and the Ottoman empire was only kept in check by large military powers. Really, Ill admit, it was more of a one sided fight and it wasn't that bad, but can't say that the Ottoman empire wasn't the one doing the carving. They took down the Byzantine empire, abet with indirect help with crusades lol. Along with Africa and most of the Middle East. They were a warring nation period. We didn't carve them up, they saw an opportunity in WW1 and got destroyed by Russia.

>>730573620
>i'm 31

Thanks for proving my point, kiddo.

>>730573394
free health
secondary education! i should have specified that. i assume you are american. the only reason you got debts so high is that the government is subsidizing the universities into having such high loans. if there was no intervention the loans would have been much lower.
>>730573424
>>730573477
you are living at the best point in history. french kings lived worse lives that you are currently living with the amenities you have. the only reason for that is capitalism. in 1906 americans lived to be 46. now they live to be 78. in the 18th century 80% of people lived in absolute poverty. today its 34% and predicted to fall to 10% in a decade.

realize you commie anarchist and selfish fucks that the only reason you are on here right now is because of what capitalism allows you to do. stop complaining.

is there a exploitation? sure there is. there are the victims due to power changes. you want to start a discussion on the consequences of communism and anarchism? i think they are well known. nothing stops changes to be made within the system.

but be grateful fags

>>730573598
Shit tier scores

>>730573617
Bro, it's just a quiz. It's more about that juicy conversation we're having.

>>730573707
Man, you must be desperate

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I guess that sounds right

>>730565720
are you me?

>>730573205
Ok explain to me why wealth and equality are opposite of one another. Also, why are might and peace opposite? You can have a powerful national defense and be neutral at the same time. Liberty and authority are not opposed to one another, your nation can have plenty of social freedom but can still take a firm, Draconian stance against violent crime such as rape and murder. And you can tradition in a cultural since (Social views and culture are not the same thing) and still have scientific and technological progress. Anyway, im a newfag so explain this chart to me before i rant again :P

>>730573707
sorry, the next time i'll try to have a legitimate opinion, i'll watch my age first.
guess 65 is an age to be taken seriously?

fucking idiot, i've worked for 15 years. at some point you don't learn anything new anymore, you see the same shitty patterns in every person you meet, every job you work.
you don't get to patronize me, even if you're fucking 80 years old, you uneducated fuck.

>>730573923
Like it matters, you've obviously been living in a very sheltered environment your entire life.

>>730573987
Baseless assumptions

>>730573739
You didn't address my point about having free services with no government intervention...

But, the reason I have nice things isn't capitalism , you dolt. I have nice things because some one made them. Capitalism didn't make the iPhone, labor did. Workers made all this shit around us and they should control how it is made and how it is dispersed. Democratically.

Also, Americans didn't live to be 46. They didn't just keel over around that age. The average age was 46 because of the infant mortality rate. And I would love the source of that poverty drop in the next decade.

We see the consequences of capitalism all around. Child labor, barely livable wages, debt through the roof (not just individually, but nationally), millions dying yearly of preventable causes all because people can't afford to eat or have proper medical care. If capitalism works, why doesn't it work for them?

Either start reading or piss off.

>>730573987
obvious troll is obvious

>>730573739

>french kings lived worse lives that you are currently living with the amenities you have. in 1906 americans lived to be 46. now they live to be 78. in the 18th century 80% of people lived in absolute poverty. today its 34% and predicted to fall to 10% in a decade.
are you implying that the medical progress is a consequence of capitalism? because it's not.
and what kind of logic is that? "200 years ago everything was shitty, now it's less shitty, so be grateful and stop fighting to make it unshitty?". people who fought for socialist ideals paved the way for the western standards of today. if people hadn't fought for a better system back then, you'd still have your feudal overlords.

>realize you commie anarchist and selfish fucks that the only reason you are on here right now is because of what capitalism allows you to do.
excuse me? capitalism KEEPS me from doing most of the things i would like to do. i work half of my life, so i can pay rent for a corporation that literally makes money out of people existing.

>nothing stops changes to be made within the system.
except the system, of course. idiot.

>>730574077
Well, we're all skirting around the topic of crony capitalism. Thats when the government gets involved with business or visa versa. Crony capitalism is hands down horrible. Im a staunch supporter of Capitalism but I despise when business and government collude with each other. It makes a business that can never fail, even when it disrupts human rights. We had that in the US in the late 19th century and we had to dismantle it too.
Real capitalism is when we can get the government to stay off the free market and get the market from influencing the government. We're having corporatism today infact. While the government is getting its money back, it should have never have saved the American Car industry. Why? Because we have shit cars and they'll never improve if we condone their bad spending and poor goods. Thats why crony capitalism is bad.

>>730573987
ugh, i don't feel like i have to justify myself to you, but i come from a working class family.
my mom is a teacher, my dad has a small family business that he manages with my granddad.
resort to personal assumptions to disprove my arguments all you want. it will only make you look like an idiot.

>>730573900
You can't have wealth and equality because that wealth that individuals amass has to come from somewhere. Employers get more value from the worker than what they give as payment, otherwise the employers wouldn't make any money. And, if you have a ton of money, you can probably buy votes or resources to get you more money.

Might/peace are more like whether you go to war or not. Do you remain neutral? Attack other countries to colonize(might) or keep the army for defense(peace). The size of the defense doesn't matter all that much with those questions.

Liberty and authority are synonyms (in this respect) for individual freedom vs state authority. You don't need the federal government to solve a domestic dispute, do you? The neighborhood could technically deal with that without a state institution threatening violence for the offender.

To be honest, it's just a rough idea on what you lean toward. It doesn't mean a whole lot. It's just some fun.

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Cucks everywhere lol.

https://8values.github.io/results.html?e=51.9&d=60.9&g=68.4&s=65.8

>>730574077
no workers didnt make the iphone. someone who had the idea about the iphone made it. workers simply made the pieces of it. they should be paid for the labor they put into. and the reason you have nice things is because of capitalism and the free market and because if an X company makes a product of 10 dollars and Y company will make it for 5 and you ll go get the one with the 5 dollars. its called competition.
> Child labor, barely livable wages, debt through the roof
governmental policies are causing this. fix them. like i said changed need to be made. but within the system of capitalism.
> eat or have proper medical care
social policies are needed. never said they werent. simply check how the welfare state in europe works.
>>730574270
>people who fought for socialist ideals paved the way for the western standards of today.
sure. there were also people who fought for communism and oh wait we saw what happened in those countries too.
>excuse me? capitalism KEEPS me from doing most of the things i would like to do. i work half of my life, so i can pay rent for a corporation that literally makes money out of people existing.
too bad if you dont want to work fag. i work and i enjoy what i can do with what work allows me to do. stop wanting to have your cake and it eat it too.

once you realize you monopolizing illiterate cucks that all the good things in your life come because someone has an idea, pays people to assemble it together and gives it to you in a low price then you ll be grateful. fuck off from by board antifa neets

>>730574023
You don't deny it? Listen kid, there's no way you would say "give everyone bikes so no one will have to steal them" if you weren't completely detached from reality.

>>730574404
Teachers and small business owners are middle class. Proving my point yet again.

>>730574571
oh and here is your source faggerino
World Bank Forecasts Global Poverty to Fall Below 10% for First Time; Major Hurdles Remain in Goal to End Poverty by 2030
http://www.worldbank.org/en/news/press-release/2015/10/04/world-bank-forecasts-global-poverty-to-fall-below-10-for-first-time-major-hurdles-remain-in-goal-to-end-poverty-by-2030

>>730574316
But what if there was another way? What if workers controlled the business instead of one person at the top? They would never vote their jobs overseas, or call the police to stop themselves from striking for more wages. That is just absurd! They would just vote to get a livable wage! It's not about any one form of capitalism. Capitalism needs the state to uphold their property rights, otherwise the workers would realize they don't need the boss and would just take over the factory!

>>730573490
Moronic shit is why the first amendment was created in the first place. Back in the 1950's, saying "blacks shouldnt be treated as second class citizens" was considered moronic and politically incorrect, but, thanks to freedom of speech, we all know what happened the very next decade. And i know that many of those who oppose it simply oppose bigotry but thats stupid because the solution to bigotry is freedom of speech itself. Letting a bigot speak will let you know why they are the way they are and will give you ideas on how to help them while oppressing them is only going to radicalize them and make them worse. And i say help because, contrary to bullshit popular belief, bigots aren't just simply bad people, theyre a tragic result of some severe trauma or shitty childhood and they didnt choose to be that way.

>>730574571
>sure. there were also people who fought for communism and oh wait we saw what happened in those countries too.
at least be polite enough to read the thread. i've replied to that argument two times already.

>too bad if you dont want to work fag.
again, 31, master's degree, 3 jobs, had a business, 15 years of work.

>i work and i enjoy what i can do with what work allows me to do. stop wanting to have your cake and it eat it too.
i bet i can do more than you with my money, because i probably earn a lot more.
and that's the difference. i don't feel entitled to the money i earn, just because i worked for it. i was born smart and arguably handsome, that made it easy for me to get a good education and a highly paying job. i didn't have to work hard for it, like most people. so why should i feel proud? why does this system reward me for being born with certain traits that others lack?
what you're implying isn't far away from social darwinism, and i do not agree with that.

also not being antifa is kind of saying that you're a fascist.

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>>730560559

>>730574706
Worker-owned companies exist. Instead of trying to destroy everything, why don't you lead by example and create some companies like that yourselves.

>>730574706
But what would drive the need for innovation if the workers controlled the factories? They just want jobs, it takes a visionary to create something new. Im honestly asking, just want to hear the other side.

>>730562461
>Totalitarian on Civil Axis
>which gives some form of Anarchism

HOW RETARDED IS THIS TEST SERIOUSLY ?

>>730574839
you are a living kek

>>730574589
in my country, teachers are not middle class. my parents are divorced and my dad has another family to feed too.
we've struggled with poverty until i was 19, so cut this shit already.
you won't make my points less valid.

>Listen kid, there's no way you would say "give everyone bikes so no one will have to steal them" if you weren't completely detached from reality.
you realize that was a metaphor? i'm not literally saying you should give everyone a fucking bike.

>>730567673
hippie scum

>>730574961
I've met plenty of people who grew up in poverty and were gullible as shit.

>>730574571
Bro, a dude had an idea. He did not build every iPhone into existence. And I doubt he was alone in designing that phone. Intellectual property is not personal. It belongs to society, just like the land we have to live on.

Also, we wouldn't have barely livable wages and child labor if production was democratized. The conversation goes like this.
"Do we want our children in school rather than working?"
"Probably."
"Okay, let's vote to not let our children work until they have a good education first"/

"We also don't have to pay 20 dudes at the top billions of dollars from our profit. What should we do with all that dough?"
"Let's reinvest in the business and make sure we have a livable wage"
Done.

Just fucking look up Mondragon Spain

>>730574870
I know! Surprise! That's marxism dipshit

>>730575032
i give up. think what you want, you've not brought up a single argument as to why my points aren't valid.

>>730575089
thank. you.
some people are so dense, it hurts my eyes reading their overconfident bullshit.

>>730574909
This is genuinely how it goes. We all believe automation and technology make things easier, right? Well, that wouldn't change under democratic society. You automate EVERYTHING you can. Less work means more play. More opportunities to learn arts and create new products that people would like. Culture would blossom if people didn't have to do meticulous work to make shit that can be made with automation.

>>730575089
> Intellectual property is not personal. It belongs to society
i give up.
> wouldn't have barely livable wages and child labor if production was democratized
the problem is not the democratization of production. its government policies. there is a reason why top economics say that the only path to escape poverty is the education of women in third world countries. governments dont do it cause they simply want to make a quick buck. this is not the systems fault its the governments. you have choices in life (at least in a capitalist democracy). make the fucking right one.
> We also don't have to pay 20 dudes at the top billions of dollars from our profit
first off its not your profit. its their profit and they can do whatever they want with it. you have a specific task and paid for it according to what the market deems fare. they own the company or habe whatever high role in it and are paid according to their responsibilities. its not a fucking commune.

bottom line you are entitled to shit fag.

>>730575248
It wouldn't work in the real world. People don't work the way you think they do. Giving everyone free stuff is going to stop almost no one from continuing to fuck everything up for everyone. I don't know how else I can explain this. Like how you attack people for not having all their historical and philosophical facts correct, I'm attacking you for not understanding life.

>>730575280
aaah finally. fully automated post-scarcity space communism utopia. i wish live long enough to see if we eventually achieve it.

>governments dont do it cause they simply want to make a quick buck
yeah, because governments work like corporations, right? they hoard money and only do things for the profit of the state.
i agree with educating women of third world countries though.

>this is not the systems fault its the governments.
system = government + corporations. your point?

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Is this good /b/?

>>730574431
Im talking overall wealth of the nation or properity if you prefer. And you dont need everyone to have exactly the same as another to achieve equality either, if you create a robust middle class and a path for everyone to get to that middle class. You'll still have rich people but youre both equal in the since that you both have healthcare, food, houses, tv's, cars, water, clothes, and electricity. Its just that their stuff is probably more expensive, but who cares because youre both equal in that you both can take care of yourself. And if you set up a system of equal opportunity like this, poor people will still exist but it will actually be their fault for being poor because they had all the chances in the world to make something of their lives and they took none of them. Also, employers exploiting workers is what unions and regulations are for (Not corporatist regulations, fuck that shit). Also, im in favor of police reform, not your idea. But i am of course in favor of defending yourself. If someone breaks into your home, by all means, turn that motherfucker into hamburger meat.

>>730575248
Honestly. Good luck, comrade. I'm with you.

>>730575439
>i give up.
When the Romans set up the aqueduct, did they charge for its use? No, because water belonged to everyone and society was better off with it easily accessible.

In many "democracies' you vote once or twice a year. Whereas you spend 8 hours a day for almost you entire life at work. Democracy at work is where true democracy begins.

Here's an example. I set up a chair factory. The raw materials have a value of 5. I hire people to make the chairs and I sell them for a value of 10. Now, where did I get the other 5? The labor of the worker. Now, if I give the worker the entire value of their labor, which is 5, how much do I take away from this exchange? Nothing!

So, how do I make the monies??? I give to the worker, LESS than what the work was worth. I give them 3 or 2. So when I take the 10 from selling the chair, I have to spend 5 again for the raw materials, and I give 2 to the worker which means I pocket the 3 left over! Capitalism!

>>730575631
>I'm attacking you for not understanding life.
you're attacking me for not agreeing with your view of life. and that's fine, but you have to base it on something other than your personal way of understanding.

for example:
>Giving everyone free stuff is going to stop almost no one from continuing to fuck everything up for everyone.
that's untrue. there have been studies regarding the unconditional basic income that showed, while some people stopped working altogether when they didn't have to, the overall productivity went up.
not in paid labor, but in voluntary work, such as tending to the elderly, or building stuff for the local community.

that's what i meant. i know something, based on a fact. you pretend to know something, based on your personal experience and logics.

>>730560559
Centrist + progress is the only acceptable result.

File: Political C 5 26-04-17.png (106KB, 800x600px) Image search: [Google]

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>>730575757
Re-did mine, this is the new score.

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>>730565720
Nuthin

>>730576000
how did you get that bad at life?

>>730575994
Gas yourself

>>730575867
>>730575439
Also, when you say "what the market deems fair", I'm wondering what sentience this market has. Is it God? No. That Adam Smith "invisible hand" bullshit doesn't fly. If you think capitalists (employer/shareholders) are just going to let some unknown, mysterious entity control how much money they make, you are dead wrong. The whole point of advertising is to make demand. They have a product but not a lot of people want to buy it? Advertise it in a way that MAKES them want to buy it. Capitalism isn't looking to find your needs, it is looking to make you need what it produces.

>>730576067
fascist

>>730576067
triggered?
or perhaps, cuck'd?

>>730575807
Also, my point with a military is that our message should be this "dont fuck with us, we wont fuck with you; fuck with us, we fucking end you."

>>730576051
What?

>>730576092
i wanted to expand on that comment, but then i realized you actually said everything.
nice job mate.

>>730575941
>that's untrue. there have been studies regarding the unconditional basic income that showed, while some people stopped working altogether when they didn't have to, the overall productivity went up.

Now factor in the people that stopped working but are still out stealing, dealing drugs and whoring.

>>730576276
I understand that people have different opinions but choosing tradition over progress is the stupidest thing one can do

>>730576250
>pointing a gun at your head
>tells you not to make me nervous, or I'll blow your brains out
>but we can still be friends :3

>>730576355
Traditions are what built us, may we never forget or roots.

>>730576360
Ok its world war 2, what do you do?

>>730576316
Thanks!

>>730576355
Depends what you mean by progress. If it's race mixing, tolerating Islam, changing children's genders, more GMO garbage and funding fake science like global warming then fuck no.

>>730576440
well, since i probably caused it... lol

>>730576384
If it limits our capacities to reach prosperity we should abolish it

cultures around the earth are to different to keep our traditions without creating a new conflict

>>730576594
kys globalist scum

>>730576508
to me it means fixing all the bad stuff.

>>730576594
Then we must have conflict, nuke the Earth until nothing is left but my traditions.

>>730576665
then you're a traditionalist

>>730576658
today not being a globalist = being retarded
we cant go back now its like a bridge where the ground behind you collapses

>>730576725
I think we disagree what bad means.

Im that
>>730575994

>>730576547
But you get my point right? If someone attacks us, we beat the shit out of them, but we be friendly with people as much as possible for the sake of peace and prosperity until then.

>>730576335
>Now factor in the people that stopped working but are still out stealing, dealing drugs and whoring.
what are the reasons for people stealing shit? because they have no money to 1) survive, or buy the things they 2) need or 3) want.
so you give them enough money to survive and eliminate the first two causes. what's left are criminals and you deal with them
crime goes down, everyone wins.

whats the reason for people dealing drugs? same as with stealing. also, you legalize drug use, legalize the sale of "soft drugs", like weed or shrooms, and make money through taxing it.
hard drugs might still be illegal, but you treat it like an illness, like a program in sweden. it gives out drugs like high quality heroin in small doses, but only if the users didn't take any other drugs. the dose is gradually lowered until the users overcame their addiction. in the meantime, the program helps them to establish a stable environment, a clean home and a steady work.
sure, you can't heal everyone, but this way you have:
-lower drug addicts
-income through taxes
-generally happy people

also, studies showed that the accessibility to drugs don't increase the drug use. in germany, the percentage of people consuming weed is higher than in the netherlands, even though it's illegal in germany. so don't even try.

what's the reason for whoring? same as with stealing and dealing drugs. legalize the whores, pursue pimps that don't follow the rules. if a girl wants to get fucked, why do you care?

anything else?

>>730576850
I get that, I do, but I think there are some major flaws with it. I don't know of a better solution, but I know that isn't the best one. Ya know?

Bump limit has been well passed. I'm making a new thread.

>>730577078
Actually, just highjack this one if you want lol
>>730576448