What are /b/tards like according to 8values ? https://8value

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>>730528588
Kek has legitimized this position with the granting of dubs.

From prev. thread
>(autism/10) guy

>>730526789
Alright, I personally disagree with your economic and societal axis. I would honestly emphasize a great degree of liberty on your civil axis but you're kinda on the right path.

Here was mine >>730523479

Again, personally, I find centrists to often be fence sitters.

The problem with "equality" is that it can only exist through the application of coercion as all humans are distinct individuals. When given an equal footing under the law and allowed to live life the way they see fit, the highest capacity individuals often rise within the social hierarchy.

Hierarchies has been a fact of society since its inception. However, systems that do not allow for individual responsibility or promote a meritocracy produce illegitimate hierarchies, these rigid familial and often politically tied monoliths. The capitalist system, by holding everyone accountable for their mistakes, routinely makes and breaks great fortunes. People have this misconception that the wealthy have always been wealthy, but this notion is primarily true within non-capitalist systems where wealth is accrued often by the coercive mechanisms of the state. The fortunes of capitalist entrepreneurs can ONLY be made via mutually consenting parties in their transactions. Trade only occurs when BOTH parties believe that what they are trading FOR is MORE valuable than what they are offering. This produces what is called a Pareto Efficient allocation.

I imagine that a reason why you lean left with respect to economics is because a number of questions were proposed as if the government has a purpose in regulating the free market in the name of labor and the environment. There are a number of problems there. One, the government is ran by fallible individuals subject to personal corruption and often leads to the wealthy to gain access to the coercive mechanisms of the state, which leads society back to a more primitive state of being where these rigid hierarchies exist.

>>730528859
>ultra-militarist
>anarchist
wat

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>having values any different than these

whats it like to have shit taste in politics

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>>730528588
>>730528859

Libertarian/AnCap General /b/read!

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>>730529081
>Communist
>Libertarian

Hello there college educated millennial. I'm sure you have a number of well-substantiated and not contradicting principles that have guided you to forming the political ideology that you maintain today at the age of 19.

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>>730528588

>>730529219
communism isnt inherently authoritarian dude

>>730529323
>bait

nigga, its fact

>>730528859
>>730529085

Get raped by corporate militia with no government to save you.
(implying you don't have the resources to fight back)

>>730529389
You can only achieve it through coercion. Without coercion, you will not out-compete the entrepreneurial firm in terms of production. See the Kibbutz

>>730529991
Who would willingly choose to purchase the product of a firm within a competitive industry where that firm is engaging in atrocities and coercive measures? Public image is important within the market. Also, everyone else has a gun too.

>>730529867
Every Progressive wants
-authoritarianism
-forced, absolute economic egalitarianism

No progressivism is not a vehicle for communism.

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>>730530281
>authoritarianism
>forced, absolute economic egalitarianism

>>730530143
Wouldn't those corporations just start authoritarian states or enslave people effectively removing the market.

correct me if needed

>>730530469
progressivism is inherently against those things.

>>730530476
Note: I'm not actually an Ancap. I just like arguing for it. Top tier political memes.

Anyways, those corporations would then also have to produce the services of the government and other utilities, violating the autonomy of other firms within other industries such as utilities.

Also, the cost of establishing a state and enslaving armed people would most likely outweighs the risk and benefits of autocracy. Firms outside the sovereign state would also be compelled to not trade with them since governments, as a rule of thumb, are generally inefficient with their product and the consumers of firms who chose to continue trading with the state would most likely be boycotted. Firms outside that state are still subject to the consumer's demand.

>>730530797
You're going to have to defend that case. Ever since the conception of the progressives in the late 19th century, they have been pushing for greater state control over the lives of the individual and the firm. Your claim, from what I know, contradicts the history of the ideologies application.

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>>730528588
Not sure how I am a social libertarian while also being economically centrist, personally i would just call myself a libertarian. I probably scored social just because I'm scientifically literate.

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>>730531016
>I probably scored social just because I'm scientifically literate.

You mean with respect to the 4th field, societal? How does being scientifically literate justify progressivism?

This is the argument from fedora fallacy 101.

>>730531656
>disdains authority
>wants to forcibly manipulate nature and society so that everyone achieves equality of outcome despite needing to discriminate against the above average.

No irony here. Move along.

>>730530890
Would people really boycott anarchic corporations if these corporations were meeting their customer needs?


Also what stops a corporate militia from obtaining a monopoly by physically eradicating their competition and then becoming the sole providers of a service or a product?

What if this snowballs and this mega corp vertically integrates?

>>730531810
Wow you're so smart and you changed my mind thanks.

I've stopped caring about these things. But here's what this thing says is my "ideal world".

We don't live in an idea world, so whatever. Meritocracies sound nice.

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>>730528588
>https://8values.github.io/
boom

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>>730532075
I forgot to post it again. Here.

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>>730532323
>>730532366
are you me? haha

>>730531257
because I assumed that I was placed as so highly "progressive" because of how I answered questions like "Climate change is either not real or not man-made" or "Irrational traditions should be abolished", and any rationally minded, scientifically literate individual would answer those questions in a "progressive" way.

>>730531819
>Would people really boycott anarchic corporations if these corporations were meeting their customer needs?

I think you meant autocratic corporations that made a claim to sovereignty. If a people see that corporation to be a threat to their autonomy and liberties, then that will most likely be a grounds for legitimate boycott. This still exists in a competitive market where there are quality alternatives that are willing to produce another product, liberty.

>what stops a corporate militia from obtaining a monopoly by physically eradicating their competition

Do you think the competition isn't going to defend itself?

>physically eradicating their competition and then becoming the sole providers of a service or a product?

Oddly enough, you seem to be entirely opposed of government monopolies as thats exactly what they are.

Monopolies, in a vacuum, are relatively rare within the free market and when they do exist, they often dissolve once other firms become able to produce a product and access the profit market. Monopolies that we see today are often defended, to some degree, by government such as bail-outs and regulations that harm small businesses to a greater degree than that of the monopolists.

>see regulatory capture

>What if this snowballs and this mega corp vertically integrates?

>see the problems of monopolies
Furthermore, diseconomies of scale often discourage over-growth of firms. Also, eventually, there will occur a succession crisis in leadership and often the reigns are left to relatively incompetent progeny and the strength of the firm will decline over generations, opening the market once more in the case of monopolization years ago.

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>>730531917
Do you have an argument?

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honestly thought I was more authoritarian than this, but myeh

>>730532323
>communism & progressivism
>liberty

pick one

>>730532568
Guess we think similarly.

>>730532866
A revolution would happen with a majority of the population on board. Once a government is in place I'm against it having too much power against the civil liberties of its populace.

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Not even trolling.

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canadafag reporting in

>>730528588
All these tests are 100% bullshit, all of this is very subjective and has to do more with your point of view than your ideals.

>>730532866
>posting thumbnails

>>730532944
communism?
Where?

>>730533206

> very subjective
> point of view
> ideals

You have correctly identified the point.

>>730532944
except as you may know from thinking about your own ideals... we're not robots. we are full of contradictions. and I'm not sure why you decided to lump communism and progressivism into the same criterion. or included progressivism at all.

>>730532720
>Irrational traditions should be abolished

Yet you claim to be against authority. >>730531016

This is one of the inherent problems with progressivism. I believes it should force people to adopt its model of believe or "reason", as you put it, for they exists as the absolute arbiters of knowledge. Furthermore, abolishing "irrational traditions" is an attack on the society's culture where their culture is often the bedrock of their society that prevents it from being co-opted and conquered by less liberally minded autocratic societies.

Basically, in the "rational" progressive world, people cannot be allowed to live their lives the way they want to because some fedora-tippers inside the government know exactly how society, culture and religion should be ran.

>>730533513
This is why I dislike these tests. Because I think irrational traditions are dumb and hold us back. I'd like to abolish them.

BUT I recognize that these are people's individual choices and I shouldn't keep people from choosing to do these things. And the government definitely shouldn't be barring people from it either.

>>730533287
Damn, you got me. I'll fix it, soz.

Okay https://8values.github.io/results.html?e=34.6&d=51.9&g=66.7&s=58.6 here it is.

>>730532997
So your idea of achieving the "tru communist" society is by granting total authority to the state to abolish all private property... then somehow abolish the state that has absolute power? How are you going to abolish the state when there exists little to no autonomy? What is stopping the state from pursuing the exact paths of the Soviets, Chinese, Cambodians, etc.?

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Not as extreme as I'd thought

>>730533481
Both advocate for an expanding state. Expanding states must encroach upon the individual liberties of the people. Ergo, both ideologies are antithetical to liberty.

>>730533833
this is basically stalinism, which is only one flavor of communism

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>>730532866
Happy, you little niggers?

Think I downloaded it from some other pleb who did the same thing.

>>730534095
thoughts on titoism? besides the crippling debt seemed to work well but I'm new to this

>>730533080
>canada
>53% capitalist

Aren't you what they call "far-right extremist" in your country?

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>>730528588
Possible to get over 86.5%??

>>730533654
>Because I think irrational traditions are dumb and hold us back. I'd like to abolish them

>BUT I recognize that these are people's individual choices and I shouldn't keep people from choosing to do these things.

You have a dilemma here, sir.

Do you or do you not want to abolish them?

>>730528987
i thought the same thing. The two couldn't even be compatible, how would you pay for giant military without a state?

>>730533513
You're basically saying he should stop mansplaining things to you, but in terms of being scientifically and mathematically literate vs not, instead of being scientifically and mathematically literate vs being a female.

>>730534420
you can only be such a faggot

>>730533513
Your right, i shouldn't have been in favor of abolishing irrational traditions. Upon further consideration the word "abolish" carries very authoritarian connotations. For the record I don't think the government should outlaw anybodies tradition that does not harm anyone else. No matter how stupid, as long as the activity does not directly harm or needlessly put others in harm's way, that activity should not be illegal; there are enough things that are already needlessly illegal. I just answered that question in the way i did because i think it would be the best for society if we all stopped with our dark age fucking traditions, but I would never have a government take away people's liberties in order to get to that goal.

This is what I generally hate about these kinds of tests and think they are not always a valid indicator of someones political ideology. So much of it is dependent on nuance that a simple misinterpretation of a single word can completely change the meaning of a question. In order to create an actually good test like this you would need super-lawyer levels of tight wording and even then it would never be perfect.

>>730529389
>not allowed to own property or businesses
>i'm going to own my own business anyway, try to stop me
>oops I can't, communism isn't authoritarian
>communism becomes capitalism
>profit

>>730534095
Oh we understand that whole "not tru communism" shtick.

We just believe that its the pragmatic conclusion to these sorts of revolutions. We know that you have the anarchic-communist society in mind, but it just does not come to fruition as a consequence to the short-sighted nature of a violent revolution.

Once you remove the autocratic state, competition will once again rear itself and begin to produce better products at a great scale more efficiently and improve society. You NEED the state and coercion to prevent a regression to capitalism.

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>>730534149
i can relate

>>730528588
Looks like you're a dumbass.

>>730534200
>besides the crippling debt

Yeah, that's an issue. So where is all that Yugoslavian prosperity I've been hearing about? Those American slaves with their 2-3 car households, fat full capitalist bellies and numerous children don't understand that Communism is clearly the most efficient means of allocating scarce resources which have alternative uses.

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>>730531656
mfw capitalist smart phone

>>730529219
i know. how can you enforce civil equality on people when you don't believe in the power of law?

>>730534449
There is no dilemma, he is saying that he wants them gone but they should only die because people wise up and choose to abandon them, not because an authoritative regime takes peoples liberties away. This isn't an argument about if irrational traditions are good or bad (they are bad), it is an argument about if a government should force people to abandon them (they should not).

>>730534459
National security is the classical collective goods problem and is a large reason why I don't consider myself, OP, to be an ancap. Basically, the collective goods problem is occurs when the benefits of a product can only be achieved through cooperation with other consumers (the taxpayer in the state). Some consumers knowing that other consumers will consent to supporting the product will forgo contributing because they believe that they don't have to. In this case, I support a little coercion.

>>730534618
well excuuuuse me
enjoy your poverty

>>730534974
Honest question from me being an idiot: since the USA has a buttload of resources, if the populace were on board would communism work better than before? assuming trade was kept up and all that. I feel like a big reason communism fails is because of the USA and NATO not giving it anything. Yugoslavia was the closest to success; Tito got both Russian and American help

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>Social Liberalism

I'd call myself central-right lean libertarian but I guess I've secretly been an SJW this whole time and didn't know it. Time to kms

>>730535294
it's way more likely your way for you to be in poverty. not saying communism is the best etc but there's a lot that's better than your shitty beliefs benefitting about three people

>>730534497
That's a misrepresentation of my position. I'm coming from the side where I don't believe that the elites of a society should forcibly dictate how others act out their lives. While I will most likely largely agree with anon on issues of science, I don't believe that my beliefs/disbeliefs should factor in to how the state runs the lives of others.

>>730534497
Wtf are you even saying?

>>730535322
Yeah communism would work if there were enough resources. People always talk about how everyone starves under communism, but what if there was more than enough food for everyone?

>>730535499
You know what, I think we actually just agree here.

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*brace for insults

>>730535664
excellent results

>>730529812

>Donald Trump detected.

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>>730535471
>three people

>>730534676
I agree that these tests are often overly simplistic and don't accurately represent any individuals actual beliefs to a T, but I do find them fun and conversation starters.

Anyways, I think I would largely agree with your positions on the legitimacy of "dark age fucking traditions" being an atheist myself, but if we're going to continue in making value judgments with regards to the utility of traditions or activities, then we will surely find ourselves on a slippery slope hinging on the current mood of the autocrats.

I, personally, find the "tradition" of mindlessly watching television, playing video games, partying, drinking, sports, etc. to be outrageously inefficient uses of scarce resources, particularly time. These activities often matter little if at all and only promote a society will negative returns to scale as generations come and go.

But should I be in position to abolish these practices? Who am I to judge?

>>730535924
>68.2% liberal
>tramp
kk

>>730534719
eternally btfo

>>730534838
Do you have an argument?

>>730536062

>Civil axis

>>730535928
>less than $1.25/day
>what is currency change over time
being this dense

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meh

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>>730528588

>>730536008
exactly, I completely agree.
Just to be clear one final time: I do not support the government banning of any activities unless they violate the NAP.

>>730536509
I disagree with everything you have but you still win the thread

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Idk how to react to this

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>>730528588

>>730535322
Great question. Is Communism's failures a result of resources?

I don't believe so. The USSR was the most bountiful country in terms of natural resources perhaps on Earth. More bountiful than Europe or the United States. Despite this, the USSR was still terrible inefficient, produced lower quality technology and ultimately still managed to collapse. With virtually all the resources it could possible need, the system simply did not work. Some of the major problems of the communist system (or more generally, the command economy) is that it often takes for granted the function of prices. Prices indicate to buyers what resources need to be rationed (high prices), which resources are more expendable (lower prices) and the consumer can then choose from there how they want to allocate their income to meet their personal needs.

In terms of the producer, prices indicate where there exists a greater market for profit (high prices are highly profitable) where they then attempt to saturate the market by entering the industry. Low prices resulting from high supplies and surpluses signal to producers that the market has too much of a particular product and those firms should seek profits in a higher yield (higher demand) industry.

Another damning problem with the command economy was that the government bureaucrats of the Soviet Union were suddenly placed in charge of not just a hand full of resources, but millions upon millions of individual scarce resources which have alternative uses.

Even the simplest of products, such as the famous example of the pencil, is the culmination of hundreds of other product and labor markets that are no immediately apparent from a superficial view of an economy.

>Here, Milton Friedman on I, the Pencil.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4ERbC7JyCfU

>I, the Pencil
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=IYO3tOqDISE

>>730535664
Nigger

>>730535924
I fucking hope so

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very naiiice

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>>730536999
Welcome to the cult, Trips. We hope your indoctrination was comfortable.
>>730537040
>TheGuyEveryoneWantsToBe.jpg

>>730536509
what!?

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Nice, this is how i would have labeled myself even before the survey.

>>730536527
Thou shall not violate the NAP, unless its the government, the government can violate the NAP..

Fortunately, the Founders managed to create an intentionally inefficient government that has largely maintained our civil liberties despite the size of its military prowess over these couple of hundred years.

Only in a system with strong checks and balances can this voluntary society be preserved.

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hmmm

>>730537467
Why would you label yourself as autistic?

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About what I expected, honestly.

>>730537367
>>theguyeveryonewantstobe.jpg
Really? I thought it was bad to be on the fence about everything, to not have an opinion.

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>>730528588
I consider myself modest. Straight down the middle. I like left stuff and hate left stuff. I like right stuff and hate right stuff. Isn't that what everyone should be? Making their decisions on their own and my blue vs red? Idk I'm drunk

>>730537074
if only there was an economic system that was based on the premise of allowing workers to allocate resources in a way that is most beneficial to society as a whole

>>730537858
Fucking apple said modest instead of moderate
Fucking poll said I'm socialist instead of normal and not sucking trump or Obama dick

>>730537701
it is, you moderate scumbag

learn to be anything but a cog in the machine

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I think its incredibly ironic how a majority of the fags on this thread unironically congratulate themselves over achieving inherently contradicting results on this poll.

You cannot maintain your civil liberties AND create an egalitarian society. Freedom is inherently at odds with equality. Equality, while superficially seemingly a virtue, requires discrimination against success and the over-achievers that make our luxurious society possible in the first place.

If you have results where you're a leftist but also believe that authority is necessary, I think you're a communist faggot, but at least your principles are consistent.

The libertarian communists out there, you're exceptionally retarded communists.

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For the record, I'm Canadian.

>>730537620
If you were autistic, would you not label yourself as such? Or is denial your strongsuit?

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where are my libertarian friendos?

>>730537926
>allocate resources in a way that is most beneficial to society as a whole

The workers themselves don't understand the needs of the society. Society influences the shift in resource allocation via profits, not the labors understanding of what is good for society. The entrepreneur can only become wealthy if he produces the best product for the lowest price AND satisfies the basic condition of trade, offering a product to a consumer who thinks that it is worth more than the money paid for it.

A system where the labor controls the production is not a system where production expands beyond the immediate needs of the labor. The profit motive exists as a function to indicate where there exists heightened demand for a certain product which is the culmination of scarce resources which have alternative uses. The profit motive leads to the expansion of industries to produce products which the consumer believes is worth more than the money they pay for it. In doing so, the entrepreneur also adds jobs to the economy. In most cases, the entrepreneur, in a competitive market, makes very little on each and every transaction. If they were making exorbitant profits, that market would surely be flooded by other profit seeking entrepreneurs and ultimately bringing the price of the good down to equilibrium price and low long term profits.

>>730538229
Sounds about right.

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>2017
>caring about tradition
>mfw

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I don't think it's thst accurate. I'm a right wing libertarian (according to political compass as well as my own self title).

>>730538435
You need more traditionalism, m8.

>>730539050
The progressive/traditional axis seems to be the most flawed in its representation. Not personally revering traditions does not make one a progressive who actively wants to erode them.

>>730538994
This thread appears to have predominantly Social Liberal posters in it. I'm honestly surprised, given this if 4Chan. I would have expected less socialism.

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>>730528859
I actually laughed outloud imagining what kind of persont this anon might be
>fuck leftists cucks
>also fuck the goverment
>also fuck mexicans
>things used to be better before

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Super Centrist here. Can someone fucking give me an idea on what my political standpoint is? I usually consider myself as a paleocon or as a libertarian

>>730539662
Well, 4chan isn't a single board. The notorious "right wingers" are all on /pol/. This is /b/, the normie side of 4chan.

>>730538105
But you could still have a society with civil liberties, and at least some egalitarian sentiment, couldn't you? Coming from a leftist who believes that authority is at least necessary to some degree.

I mean, some people might be shit on ever so slightly, but I'm sure you could work out a society where the top percentile is still guaranteed the rights and freedoms that most other citizens have, and not merely curb-stomped for the sake of the have-nots and gib-me-dats.

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>>730539331
This pole is based on abstractions. It's flawed, but IMO still valid for MOST people.

>>730539778
I think a libertarian would have high capitalist, dovish and liberty percentages.

Paleoconservatism has a higher emphasis on liberty and traditionalism.

You're more like right-leaning centrist.

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well the social liberalism... k then who cares

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I've also gotten neo-liberal

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>>730539846
/b/ is not for Normies. It's for those who have become numb to the world and desire extreme stimuli to feel anything at all.

But I agree with you, the Right Wingers are on /pol/

>>730539699
Lmao, when you put it like that, it's hilarious. I brushed past it, just thinking, "hmm, wonder if they got that on the first try"

>>730539891
The egalitarian sentiment should only exist within the court of law. Those who have been wronged should have their cases reviewed by their own peers and whatever injustice done upon them, corrected as far as the state can. This isn't like welfarism. Welfarism demands that all persons of a society be held account to varying extents the poverty of others who may or may not be their peers. A society that is FAIR in the sense that people are allowed to engage with one another as they see fit while not encroaching upon the liberties of their peers is what should be the objective.

Now, why do you exactly consider yourself a leftist?

>>730539984
Like I said in some previous post, its a good general conversation starter.

>>730540285
I think it has become normal to feel numb. Just like people who used computers were considered nerds in the 80s but are now normies.

>>730540285
No, no, /b/ is for normies. Just edgier normies. Look at the average thread and tell me its not a normie thread. Tits, Ass, Trap, c'mon. This is degeneracy.

>>730539778

"What makes a man centrist, Kif? Is it greed? Lust for power?"

>>730540102
>Paleoconservatism has a higher emphasis on liberty and traditionalism

Pls explain political-anon; i'm fucking dumb as sticks. So a paleocon would lean traditionally on the societal axis, while, opposingly, leaning on the liberal sode of things

>>730540285
Just look at the results within these threads. They have intrinsically contradicting results (high equality, high liberty, high progressive), indicating to some degree that these people aren't too familiar with the fundamentals of those ideologies.

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I still get results like this in any of all the political tests.
I know most stuff I want to happen won't work, it represents more how I feel about it.

>>730541206
>le fancy quote that I don't know the source of

well I do admit to being a kiss-ass in political discussions though. I mean my general mentality is that I shouldn't try to get everyone upset. Especially if my fam's talking about politics n shit. I mean I wouldn't wanna go full /pol/ mode on their asses.

I usually end up being a trump
>person everyone fucking hates because I somehow upsetted each one

or a fucking shillary
>person who has a shit opinion that's worth discarding (bc of vague opinion on all issues)

>>730541616
>>730541663

We're samesies

>>730541235
Tread cautiously when using the word "liberal". That word has meant many things over many years and is sometimes lost in translation even today.

Liberalism used to mean individualism. Today its synonymous with collectivism. Paleoconservatives would be of the "classical liberal" laissez-faire stock where they place emphasis on small governments, deregulated economies while maintaining firm laws that uphold the traditional values (precedents and cultural convention) such as strong traditional marriage laws and other conventional american conservative beliefs.

Liberalism, in its modern connotation, is virtually the equivalent of progressivism, which in the early 19th and late 18th centuries, was at odds with classical liberalism (today's constitutionalists and libertarians). The term liberal was co-opted, I believe, during the FDR administration (or at least around then).

>>730538229

Fuck off, lumber cheater.

>>730528588
ultra-capitalism
>fucking wagecucks haha everytime

>>730535499
Do you believe that the state shouldn't base their decisions on science, logic and reason, then? How would the state run the lives of others, if not by those methods? Astrology?

>>730540729
I suppose I usually fall on the left side of things when it comes to the majority. I guess the majority actually being a lot of anons from /pol/. I mean, I appreciate the state, I can consider the free market, I figure a handful of drugs may as well be decriminalized, I figure abortion shouldn't be illegal at the very least, I don't feel "the church and the state" should be together, universal healthcare, rehabilitation instead of punishment (but still some punishment), change is sometimes nice, that kind of stuff. I guess I'd ultimately look down on welfarism though. I like the idea of the fair society you pitch.

I guess issues that shouldn't be partisan, like climate change, probably make me a leftist in the eyes of the many, too. Not that I'm this way or that way because "muh climate change"; I understand why we burn coal and why dropping everything and investing in solar power would be a dumb move. I understand why some people harp about political correctness. I get why some people feel like there's some sort of liberal agenda being forced on them. I'd like to call myself a moderate, but years of measuring myself against the grain leaves me feeling like "left" is a better label.

This was my result
>>730532366

>>730541947
Ah, so to put it simply, its the economic values that a libertarian takes to heart, and the traditional values that right-wingers or reactionaries usually promote.

I get it thanks based anon

>>730542399
Strawman. You're making the mistake of believing that the state NEEDS to intervene within the lives of its constituents. The state doesn't have to be involved within dictating how society structures itself, rather instead deferring to the position of umpire.

But fortunately, there are state institutions for your stock. Are you familiar with One Flew Over the Cuckoo's Nest?

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31 Year Old White/Hispanic making 6 figures a year

>>730542744
That's about right. Anything else I can help you with?

>>730535506
I'm saying that by saying you don't think the state should force their beliefs, especially when you're talking about beliefs that are grounded in fact, is to say that you'd either rather they didn't have any control (which defeats the purpose of any kind of state in the first place), or that you'd rather they force other kinds of beliefs on the population (which is asinine). People are free to believe in whatever vooodoo they want, but when the state enacts regulations, it shouldn't be voodoo that they regulate with.

I was comparing his statement to feminists claiming that it's "mansplaining" when evidence is presented that doesn't jive with their "feel-goods", regardless of the legitimacy.

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>>730528588

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>>730528588
I think I'm the majority

>>730529389
communism is inherently anarchist my dude

>>730543208
>especially when you're talking about beliefs that are grounded in fact
So the state should be advocating for selective breeding and eugenics as its an established fact that artificial selection produces offspring that are better suited in performing a certain desirable task. Selection via love is such an inefficient means of allocating society's valuable genetic resources. The state should have the absolute say in who should be allowed to reproduce and with whom.

>is to say that you'd either rather they didn't have any control (which defeats the purpose of any kind of state in the first place)

Again, you believe that the state should have a matter in ALL affairs as opposed to minimalist governments. This isn't a dichotomy. The world isn't split between only communists and ancaps. Strawman.

>or that you'd rather they force other kinds of beliefs on the population (which is asinine).

This is the purpose of the justice system, to ensure that beliefs aren't FORCIBLY via the violation of individual autonomy.

>People are free to believe in whatever vooodoo they want

Unless its the state's brand of voodoo. Also, science isn't ethics just to be clear. But when the state does become involved in the regulation of voodoo, it damn will.

>I was comparing his statement to feminists claiming that it's "mansplaining" when evidence is presented that doesn't jive with their "feel-goods", regardless of the legitimacy.

What if the feminists are elected? And their understanding of established facts then co-opt the functions of the government in which you or society has granted as a voter in the hopes of producing a rational government capable of regulating how society functions.

>>730539778
I think it means you don't really give a shit or you don't really engage politically

At least I'm the same and I don't

>>730544006
There's always a flock of sheep to every shepherd.

>>730544321
Care to defend this position? I disagree.

>>730530797
No, it's not. It lies and says it's against those things to get elected, but the reality is very different.

>>730544481
the three core tenants of communism are
>lack of hierarchy
>lack of currency
>lack of a state
not a commie I just want the idea to fail on its own merits not strawmen

>>730544951
Theory =/= Practice

It first requires the state to abolish private property. It then expects the state to abolish itself.

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>>730544006
Less than you think.

>>730545380
more like the less you think

>>730545458
depends on your perspective, fuckboi

>>730545151
one of my main problems with communism is the "transitional" state. most other anarchists want to abolish the state then take the necessary steps to their ideology idk why they have such a hate boner for private entities as a whole

>>730545789
Its the naivety of revolutionary communism. It denies the reality of human nature. You see very few examples throughout history of a single man willingly walking away from absolute power, let alone an entire state abolishing itself.

>>730538919
It's like you haven't even read volume one of Capital....

>>730545966
"To look at people in capitalist society and conclude that human nature is egoism, is like looking at people in a factory where pollution is destroying their lungs and saying that it is human nature to cough." - Andrew Collier

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>>730528588
All communists should be rounded up and gassed.

>>730543086
Neocons are usually greedy assholes, right, but how do they differ from paleocons? Necons are usually asshole warmongerers and corrupt lobbyist ass kissing retards, right?

>>730546744
you sound like a cuck

>>730546962
There are good and bad things to both sides of political spectrum, just happens to be more good on the right side.

Since when does being a moderate mean being a cuck anyways.

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The only good option for a strong nation anymore.

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>>730528588

>>730547175
>People should decide what to produce and how to produce it democratically
>They should be gassed
>Good and bad on both sides of this argument

This is what's wrong with people who believe in hierarchical control over production (capitalism) but still somehow want equality and democracy. You can't vote once or twice a year, be under the control of someone else for 8 hours of your day your whole life, and call that democracy.

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As someone who generally identifies with the far right, this came as a surprise.

>>730548105
Liberals are still right of center. Especially in the US.

>>730548105
Your score was very similiar to mine.
Here:
>>730547875

I also identify as far right, so I feel ya.

>>730548194
>Genuinely thinks a muslim genocide would solve 80% of the world's problems
>But gay marriage is okay

I guess that makes me liberal in the US

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>>730528588
Im boring

>>730548062
People can still be controlled and manipulated in a democracy, just like any other form of government.
This is the reason they are OK with democracy, they can't see the people guiding them from "behind the shadows".(not trying to sound like some fucking edgy conspiracy theorist, but it's true)

The only way to ensure no manipulation is to have anarchism, which is stupid as fuck.

Traditionally, two-party system democracy works well when parties are willing to compromise with each other, which has not happened for a long time.

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>>730532903
ayy same. underrated af

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>>730548105
As someone in the "still kind of butthurt about the French Revolution" far right camp, I know the feeling.

>>730529389
then wouldn't you vote to get richer?

>>730548650
This is why I should have absolute power

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>>730528588

>>730529081
Found the Antifa

>>730549069
Under a direct democracy that just doesn't hold water. Manipulation is much harder, but obviously not impossible, when you eliminate representatives.

Two-party systems have long since been understood to be inferior to multiple-party systems. Two-party systems devolve into what the US is today. You pick the lesser of two evils and pat yourself on the back for choosing the Devil's cousin instead of the Devil himself.

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>>730528588
I'm not super surprised.

I dig this quiz though, it's the first political one where I wasn't like "ehhhh kinda, it depends?" on literally every question.

>>730549274
>still kind of butthurt about the French Revolution

I would genuinely like to know more about what you mean by this.

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>>730528588

Apparently, i'm more progressive then i thought. Still hate feminism and other SJWs, though. i'm a man who supports freedom for all, not any one race, gender, or religion.

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Accurate

>>730550710
SJWs are regressive. Progressiveness can sometimes be shitty too, but the modern "women are equal but deserve to be protected from any bad feelings" is its own special brand of stupid.

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Not all the questions I felt were justifiably yes or no questions and putting neutral simply didn't feel right so uh, this isn't the most accurate.

Friendly reminder: If your Tradition is higher than Progress, you are what's wrong with the USA.

>>730551253
Honestly, social liberalism is gay. I'm a mutualist

As long as your dominant bars on this chart are red, yellow, and purple you are a pretty cool dude.

If not I regret to inform you the world would be better without you.

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>>730551410

>>730528588
What the fuck is ultra-capitalism?

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>>730528588
Pretty good quiz.
Fully automated gay tier, as expected.

Odd to see a lot of man-children in here think libertarian right is in anyway related to Trump.

>>730551818
Your so capitalist that you become pure shekels

>>730551818
Superman's bourgeois cousin.

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more extreme than the compass but more or less acurate

>>730551818
People that have no concept of true liberty

>>730551818
Judaism

>>730546149
das kapital, lemming

>>730551818

It mainly comes in two forms
>daddy was rich so I grew up never having to work for anything in my life or face any character-building adversity. I unironically admire Patrick Bateman and Gordon Gecko.
or
>I'm a delusional blue collar worker who has been indoctrinated to think cutting taxes on ultra rich globallists will make me rich too someday!

>>730546851
The term neocon is usually used as a pejorative but generally they're very quick to exercise military action. While a lot of them have strong traditionalist streaks, I often refer to them as RINOs, Republicans in name only. They often have a tendency to support expansions of the state, but not nearly aggressively domestically as the progressives.

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>>730529081

>>730547340
Sorry, but that autocratic state is going to drift away from capitalism and shift to corporatism. The citizens should be the check on the government. How else can you prevent tyranny?

>>730538105
were you trying to pack as much bullshit in one post as possible?
because you won

>>730548062
>People should decide what to produce and how to produce it democratically

Yes, that's called capitalism. The consumer votes on which firm they want to support by trading their earnings for the product of their choosing.

Unless you mean that 51% of the people should force 49% of the people to pay for their guaranteed income.

>>730552676
Only cucks that don't read it call it that

>>730550284
Ah! Emphatically autistic, eh?

>>730550710
See >>730539331

>>730553383
>sees points
ok
>understands the arguments
alright
>begins to respond
LOL YOU IS DAS TUPID FEG

>>730554034
no seriously, it's like i'm looking at some /pol/tard spew

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Let's see who could possibly argue with this one

>>730554239
If you disagree with any of the points, refute them. If its such obvious bullshit, it shouldn't be hard to produce a convincing counter argument.

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mmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmm

>>730533513
>african girls suck shit out of the asses of cows so they produce more milk
>this belief is only justified by cultural tradition
>clearly irrational tradition
>called a fedora tipper for not wanting africans to literally eat cow asses

All cultures are equal

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>>730528588

Liberty for people, control for corporations.

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Huh apparently I'm left wing lul

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>>730528588

>>730554398
the very fact that that post started with an insult, continued with an insult (while also pointing out the superior worldview) and finished with an insult, tells me that i shouldn't waste my keyboard

>>730553389
That's the most bent description of democracy I've read. Those aren't decisions, those are consequences of "bad business". You think workers will vote to offshore their jobs? You think workers will vote to follow practices that pollute where they live? Not likely.

A just democracy is one person, one vote. Under your example, it's more like one dollar, one vote. That sounds antithetical to equality and democracy.

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How can people think Capitalism and Liberty go hand in hand?

No one chooses to be a wage slave. Capitalism relies on the force of the state to prevent the exploited class from rising up against their owners.

If you're an authoritarian capitalist, I think your views are completely wrong but at least they're consistent. If you consider yourself a "libertarian capitalist" or any variation of that then you are pants on head retarded. You can't be for the individual and simultaneously support and economic system that exploits most individuals.

>>730554973
but you know that they're two different things, right? that's why they're named differently

>>730532906
Got similar results to you (though i preferred less peace). Maybe this is geographical. Im a canadafag, voted NDP last time since Fuck Harper and Fuck Wynne

>>730554579
Where in our western culture do we have a tradition equivalent in its "irrationality" as that?

Do cultures that emphasize that the sucking of cow shit is necessary to produce greater milk yields produce great societies or civilizations?

No.

So what kind of cultures have produced our great society? One that is equivalent to the shit suckers of africa, or one that has withstood countless invasions and crises, from the Persian invasions of Greece to the rise of Facism?

Our culture is the bedrock of our civilization. If you think that the government should dictate how the people interact outside of violating one another, then you missed the train with the Soviet Union. But good news, you still have North Korea.

Also, never once claimed that all cultures are equal. Relativism is autism and there exists a universal morality.

Is it difficult living through everyday life being mentally retarded?

>>730554601
So, facism-lite?

>>730554973
you just won again!

>>730536187
You must be a joy to be around.

>>730539001
>It is (insert year here) how could you can about (insert thing I don't like here)

Why don't you care about the tradition, shill?

>>730554799
Not an argument

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>>730555275
Restricting corporations increases the net amount of freedom in society in the same way restricting a violent psychopath increases the net amount of freedom in society.

>>730555275
Nah, more like libertarianism with environmental regulations and labor unions.

>>730555357
Traditions? Pfft, what are those? Its not as they are the foundation of our civilization and has largely preserved the West through its greatest crises.

>>730555392
why waste time explaining things when all i'll hear in the end will be some /pol/-tier autistic screeching?
years ago i was stupid enough trying to explain this but you sooner or later learn the futility of doing it. you just don't argue with cognitive dissonance

>>730538105

Capitalism is an authoritarian economic system with markets and the private ownership of nature(capitalism), it requires a state to enforce "property rights" and maintain the hierarchal distribution of power. so called "free market capitalism" doesn't exist and can't exist without destroying itself immediately. There are plenty of ways to have free markets, capitalism is not one of those ways.

>>730554973
>>730555438
>>730555748
Seeing this on /b/ is like a breath of fresh air...

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>>730528588

just a reminder that money is the biggest cancer, humanity ever invented

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>>730528588
I don't even associate with any political party so don't taint me of being a leftist because i don't subscribe to any of that bullshit

I have my own perspectives and reasoning outside of what's commonly accepted

>>730554973
The alternative to engaging within the capitalist market is to revert to the primitive self-sufficient family. Many Americans who did not want to be subject to "wage slavery" chose this option during the American industrial revolution. However, many more Americans believed it was liberating as it allowed for them to be liberated from the tribulations of the homestead, no longer doomed to death from an early winter, pestilence or a bad crop. The quality of life rose so dramatically for those who migrated to "wage slavery" that attention no longer had to be paid to survival. Man had removed himself from the random selective processes of nature. In conjunction from the removal of this survival stress came the nihilistic depression of indolence.

>No one chooses to be a wage slave.
Literally everyone that is choosing to be a wage slave or creating a self-sufficient way of life is choosing to be a "wage slave".

>Capitalism relies on the force of the state to prevent the exploited class from rising up against their owners.

So you don't think the state should have laws against theft, vandalism, etc. You know, basic laws?

How does the capitalist exploit anyone? We are the most prosperous generation of the wealthiest nation and society the world has ever seen. Why do you believe the poverty of socialist states is a preferential life to enjoying a new phone every year with your full stomachs?

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SCIENCE!!!

>>730556145
Actually, I would argue privatized ownership of land...

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What does this say about my personality, /b/?

>>730555725
Still no arguments to be found

Remember that this is a thread where multiple people are engaging in, so if you want to refute my points for their sake, go ahead. Teach them.

>>730554344
I like it.
>>730554454
>Liberal
>Market
>Neutral
My head is spinning. Not in a bad way, but... My head...
Looking at this again. I think I like it.
>>730553196
You seem like they type I'd enjoy talking to.
>>730555763
THIS IS ME forgot to add comments. r1p
>>730555953
I like this, Its very balanced.
>>730554683
Its like... We're different... But its okay. You seem like the type for a good conversation.
>>730556145
Pretty much

>>730556445
>Still no arguments to be found
and don't expect any
>go ahead. Teach them
i love how you used "them", instead of "us" because surely you can not be wrong

>>730556440
Seems like a pretty chill level headed dude

I'm
>>730556316

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>>730528588

>>730555748
> it requires a state to enforce "property rights"

So you don't think that stealing should be a crime?

>maintain the hierarchal distribution of power.
All societies have had hierarchies. Free markets where the government doesn't intervene within industry produce the highest individual mobility of any available system and only as a result of merit by providing the most desirable product to the consumer (who chooses that product via consent). The rigid classes of the old world were built through political ties, access to the coercive nature of the state.

>"free market capitalism" doesn't exist
But it does... anon...

Why do you think that people should be allowed to steal from one another??

>There are plenty of ways to have free markets, capitalism is not one of those ways.

Name them

>>730556411
but it's just another part of the money making machine

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>>730528588
Hell Seger

>>730556830
My dads a nazi idk if I should show him

>>730555748
anon, don't bother

>>730556145
A convenient means of storing value? Do you prefer having to carry your cows to the market for trade like the ancient Greeks did?

>>730555555
>>730555555
>>730555555
>>730555555
>>730555555
>>730555555

>>730556938
Worst case scenario he stomps your teeth to the curb

Might give it a try, what do you have to lose?

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>>730528588

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Hmm

>>730556557
>very balanced
lol

>>730556354
I never consented to your conception of property rights, so why should I be forced to live by your beliefs? In order to get me to obey your beliefs, you need a state to use force to get me to obey.

Capitalism is fundamentally authoritarian in this way. Not only is it authoritarian, in practice it is most often totalitarian as well. You can't be pro capitalist and pro liberty. The two are mutually exclusive.

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I dunno I'm just a stoner whatever

>>730556999
absolutely. better option in every possible way

>>730556754
>and don't expect any
I can't imagine why not...

>>go ahead. Teach them
When referring to everyone else outside of a conversation, the word "them" more accurately conveys that sentiment as opposed to "us". If I'm referring to everyone except for us, then us doesn't accurately describe that.

>>730557253
>I can't imagine why not...
see? you didn't even bother read the previous posts
>rest of the post
that's one hella retarded dodge and you know it

I understand the contradiction of people wanting freedom while being treated equal, but how the fuck can you justify tradition over progress?

Progress is what made us stop being cavemen, what fucking tradition can be useful when you can always shift and find better solutions with each step science takes?

>>730557617
>doesn't worship tradition
what kind of /pol/tard are you?

>>730557109
>I never consented to your conception of property rights
Then leave the society that built itself around that law.

>I never consented to murder being illegal
Well I suppose murder should be legal

>I never consented to theft being illegal
Well, go ahead and steal from everyone

>you need a state to use force to get me to obey.
You know you can just leave, right? We're not forcing you to stay unlike the Communists in North Korea and East Germany. Vote with your feet and stop complaining about the society that has made your pathetic whiney existence so fucking easy. Go start your own life in some other country with a dysfunctional state and live in prosperity without electricity, clean water, food, phones, internet. It'll be great. This society sucks. Average life expectancy has only increased from 30 to 70.

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til i'm a jew

>>730556354
There are a lot of reasons the US workforce subjected themselves to wage slavery during the mid 19th to early 20th century. If you would like, I can go through some of them with you.

>Literally everyone that is choosing to be a wage slave or creating a self-sufficient way of life is choosing to be a "wage slave".
That is circular reasoning... You just said people who choose to do something, choose to do something. That's redundant and doesn't have any real substance.

>>730556354
>>730556859
> you don't think the state should have laws against theft, vandalism, etc
Stealing private property and stealing personal property are very different.

>>730556859
>>"free market capitalism" doesn't exist
>But it does... anon...
Where?

>>There are plenty of ways to have free markets, capitalism is not one of those ways.
>Name them

Slave systems had markets and Feudal systems had markets. Markets existed before capitalism. What makes capitalism unique aren't the markets but the way things are produced.

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>>730531016
basically me

>>730536191
Can you fucking read? That graph is adjusted

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"Live and let live" is my motto

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Yaaaa

>>730557762
jews don't do liberty. the very opposite actually

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Me xd

>>730557736
The only reason people would ever get tradition over progress would be garbage like imposing religion or ethics unto others, and before you rev up those fedora images, the concern here is the action of imposing something to someone else.

>>730558144
Libfag

>>730557617
Change is always good, right anon? Always.

>>730557748
>Stop trying to make things better! Either suffer willingly like the rest of us, or DIE!

>>730558214
We're measuring progress, not change for the sake of change.

Traditions are removed when you realize they're not useful (or they become harmful) to society.

>>730558214
These fucks beleive change is good. Tellem anon.
Tell the how all the great empires to ever exist were torn down by change..

The Egyptians had the greatest civilization, until they started mingling with the Romans.

>>730558204
>imposing something to someone else
but that's what /pol/ does 24/7
i'll say more: that's what /pol/ trolled itself to believe

>>730557842
>I can go through some of them with you.
Go ahead if its substantive for the thread

>That is circular reasoning..
Its a self-evident fact. If there exists an alternative to A, being C, and person chooses A over the alternative, then they're not slaves and prefer that state of being to a truly liberated life on a self-sufficient homestead.

>>730557842
>Stealing private property and stealing personal property are very different.

wot

So theft in itself is not wrong. Only theft of "personal" property is wrong.

>>730558214
that doesn't change the fact that you can't stop it

>>730558596
Read a book once in a while

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this test is fucking joke

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i have trouble dressing myself in the morning

>>730557842
>Where?

It seems we have different definitions of free.

Here's mine: A free market is one where an individual can consent to engage in with other individuals/firms of their choosing without the intervention of state. This does not mean that the market necessitates an anarchic society.

My examples would include:
Singapore, Switzerland, Hong Kong and still but to a lesser extent, the United States (it has drifted quite far from the free market). Note that there does not exist any 100% command or free economies.

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1v1 me faggots

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>>730528588

^ There's only one way to not destroy our country in the long run

>>730558857
i was actually waiting for this

>>730558509

People sell themselves into wage slavery to avoid starving to death. They aren't doing it of their free will any more than you would cooperate with an armed gang holding you at gunpoint forcing you to give up your money or be killed. You only have a "choice" in the most superficial way.

Capitalism requires this type of mortal threat to operate since a substantial number of people would refuse to work under capitalistic conditions if they truly had a real choice about it.

>>730559080

You and I are similar