Why is (((media))) demonizing President Donald.J Trump? Where

>>730240104
bump

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>>730240104
The media is simply reporting the truth.

>>730241184
As if (((media))) wants even 70% of that actually

>>730240104
It's almost like he intentionally picked a fight with people who buy ink by the barrel.

He does more radical stupid shit more often than other presidents, thus the media report on him more. More stories, more money for them and this guy is a goldmine.

One good thing from this POTUS is that the media won't starve I guess

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>>730240104
Well, the right wing media were hateful and biased towards Obama, because he was an evil, socialist, unamerican, muslim dictator that destroyed Amercia...or so they said. Nothing of it was true, but they sure did a good job of rallying up the people who then elected Trump.
Trump is shitting all over the place, and both left, centrist and even right media outlets are reporting about it - not the far right, because they think he's the god of prosperity. I'd call this a bias. There are media outlets who are unfairly biased towards him, yes, but as far as I can tell, it's a small minority.
You know this, of course.

>>730241184
No media, anywhere, reports the truth.

>>730241847
What does he do? It's more like what they finish he would do but he doesn't.

>>730240104
He ran as a Republican so demonizing was a given from the beginning. I suspect if he'd run as a Democrat, which he really could've done based on his past, this demonization would not have occurred.

The MSM is propaganda, it's that simple.

>>730241799

They hated him from the beginning, you are an idiot.

>>730240104
What part of Leftist Media is confusing?

>>730241965
lol

>>730241918
see >>730241899

In all fairness, there is some bias against him, but the fact is that the media is picking on him for what he DIDN'T do.

Couldn't repeal obamacare, couldnt reinforceborder patrol, no update on the wall, etc. You saw the news when he dropped the MOAB, right?

>>730240104
I'm sure they would've been just as hard on Obama if he was tweeting the same stupid shit, if he was as clearly inept and incompetent, if he was on the verge of starting nuclear war.

>>730241899
This^^ Also don't fool yourselves guys, establishment politics are as rampant or even more than before Trump. Time we all admit he's been a let down and move on to fight for ourselves instead of millionaires far removed from our interests.

>>730240104
trump is an incompetent buffoon with the intellectual skills of a down's syndrome two year old. Obama had some level of intellegence.

obama: travel ban from 6 islamic countries is ok, don't report on it

trump: same travel ban from 6 islamic countries is racist and must be reported on daily, newspaper colums must be written about this daily, all news outlets and media talking heads must report/talk about this daily

clearly there isn't any media bias

>>730242617
Clearly you lack the intellectual skills to distinguish between the two. trumpism suits you well. No need to think.

>>730242617
Repeating the same ignorant, uninformed bullshit may work with ignorant, uninformed people.
For all who don't fit in this category:

http://www.politifact.com/truth-o-meter/statements/2017/jan/30/donald-trump/why-comparing-trumps-and-obamas-immigration-restri/

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>>730240104
>Why is (((media))) demonizing President Donald.J Trump?

Why are fucktards lined up on their knees to suck his dick?

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>>730242834
>truth-o-meter

clearly we can trust this unbiased media website that has no connections to the democrat party or mainstream media corporations

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>>730240104
The Republicans made the conscious decision to become the party of anti-intellectualism, anti-science, and anti-facts. Thus, maintaining their worldview has required them to invent a reality in which all mainstream news outlets, independent journalists, and scientific institutions are fake, all rigged by liberals. Where their favorite alt-right propaganda outlets and conspiracy peddlers are the only source of truth.

When they say that major news outlets are biased towards the Democrats, what they are actually saying is that reality is biased towards the Democrats.

>>730240104

No, they fawned over Obama because he was deep into the establishment.

It isn't even Democrat vs Republican; the establishment media loves and hates people in both parties, depending on their stance.

The establishment (and its media) vs We the People.

>>730241184
fake news in the meme.
>Vacations=golfing with world leaders while negotiating deals about NK
>a Plan to deceat ISIS within 30days=he actually said they have 30days to present him a plan
>repeal and replace= read his book "the art of the deal"
>stay out of Afghanistan= we have been there since 2001, so this is not a thing he went back on
>term limits=that takes an act of congress, you can only complain. if he vetoes that
>bring back coal jobs= he is making good on that
>stay out of Syria=you mean where ISIS is?? lol
>Drain the swamp= he is putting people in places to finally get caught

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>>730243620

>>730240104
>not my enemy
>enemy of the american people
what did (((he))) mean by this?

>>730240104
>seams
>>>/pol/

>>730240104
There is a bias against him of course, but he is also just really bad at his job, like really bad. The stuff he has done is retarded and there is so many things that he a said he would do that he simply wont. Being a borderline retarded president and having a bias against you are not mutually exclusive.

>>730240104
>(((media)))
He couldn't care less about who is honest or not He's playing sides with those who make him look good it doesn't matter if is true or not

>>730244765
PLEASE stop spaming

>>730240104
>demonizing
we can see that he aint about no action Talked 2 much got ppl 2 hyped and then what? Nothing has changed.

>>730240104
Cuz he is too EZ
Bites every time

>>730244617
One of the first things potential dictators do when they gain power in a free society is wage war on the independent press. He wants to trick Americans into thinking they can't trust the press so they start only trusting him. It's only going to work for the rural trash though, who are already so dumb they don't even merit mentioning.

>>730244782
>>730244799
Birds and Frogs now? weirdo...

>>730240104
Trump ist the comicvillain of capitalism and every other degenerated country loves him too.
He is also failing at everything like obabo and any other politician in this competition System we have.

>>730241847
Half of the stuff they bitch about Obama and Bush both did during their terms

>>730242400
Obama was too busy fucking up the healthcare system and bombing third world countries

>>730243620
What kind of insider information do you have to know that he's negotiating deals? Nobody is allowed to know what he's doing and there are tons of pictures of him golfing.

The simplest answer is that he's golfing constantly. Even if he is doing some deals, why does he have to charge American taxpayers millions of dollars by doing these deals at his resort?

The talking points are full of holes.

>>730243620
>bring back coal jobs
Coal jobs are never coming back, automation and natural gas have seen to that.

>>730245644
Except he didn't "fuck up" healthcare. He wanted single payer but compromised on a republican plan that didn't completely suck. Republicans realized that the plan didn't suck and freaked out because they had a stated goal of obstructing anything Obama did.

>>730245901
>that feel when the party is dead set on killing a health care system nearly identical to one the chosen candidate in 2012 introduced as Governor

>>730245901
Look man, we all wish that the people who don't try in life could have the government take care of them but it's just not an option

>>730246257
>government shouldn't strive to provide affordable, quality healthcare to the people
>that money is better spent so that people not cut out for college can join the military and shoot brown people

>>730246257
We waste Trillions of dollars in bullshit wars but some decent Health care is a delusional dream?
MOAB alone cost us $18m

>>730246043
That feel when you voted for Ron Paul

trump supporters. What happens when a defect in the gene pool isn't bred out in time. trump supporters should be sterilized for the good of humanity.

>>730246479
18m bombing isis tunnels or letting hundreds of thousands of Muslims into the country so we can take Sweden's place as rape capitol? How much do you think it would cost in welfare to take care of all of those refugees?

>>730246871
>Can't refute argument about healthcare
>tries to switch topics to avoid further discussion

Rural people shouldn't vote and Trump proves why.

>>730247019
Stop being poor and pay for your own fucking healthcare, that's my argument

>>730247257
>being this out of touch with reality

>>730246871
What tf are you talking about now? Sorry how many muslims are on our boarders again?

>>730247382
Being this much of a bitch and being this cucked by poor people and immigrants

>>730243738
nice pepe

>>730247257
>that feel when the top 5 states that receive more aid from the federal government than they pay in taxes are all red states.

>>730247450
He's talking about wasting money on bombs and I'm talking about wasting money on Syrian migrants

>>730247539
>poor people and immigrants
The Topic was about healthcare. nobody said anything about muslims or letting refugees in america but hey if wasting money in wars and not on american ppl sounds best for you,what's the point?

nice pepe thread you fags got going here

>>730240104
(((media)))
you answered your own question

>>730240104
>Why is (((media))) demonizing President Donald.J Trump?

Because they were pimping Clinton with everything they had. The butthurt when she LOST is more than they can accept. People are ignoring the media since the media had a Clinton agenda and pushed it way too hard.

How to tell if it's a propaganda site? There's no comment section. As in NPR which recently ended their comment section.

The comments skewering the hypocrisy were the best parts. Daily Best (Jew owned) also ended comments. They just want to shit out what they consider to be news and are not interested in any feedback.

Just consume and keep silent? Nah, fuck the media. Lying Jew bastards.

>>730240104
>>>730240104
>The media is simply reporting the truth.
Old pictures

>>730247655
I don't live in a red State and that is why my business gets taxed to fuck and back to pay for poor and illegals to have welfare

>>730240104
>Because it seams hate and bias against Trump is stronger


Probably because there's a good reason to rail against stupidity and irresponsibility that's been yet far displayed by the Great Cheetolini?

And yes the media criticized Obama repeatedly especially over the inaction in Syria, and the expansion of state spying on its citizens.

>>730245901
>A republican plan that didn't completely suck

Lol'd so hard. Have you read the plan?

>>730247742
So immigrants and the poor won't benefit from having affordable health care that I would have to pay for a higher tax rates?

>>730240104
The media is part of the educated American majority that voted for Hillary and recognizes fascism. Trump supporters don't understand because they've barely graduated high school, if not dropped out.

>>730248070
Do you realize that due to the profit motive and the inefficiency of all the bureaucracy needed to coordinate such a barbaric healthcare system you are paying more than you would by taxes? Check the numbers on price vs. results on the amerincan health system. They are tremendous, believe me.

>>730247742
What's your major bro?

>>730248018
The best compromises are typically those that make both sides of the aisle uncomfortable.

and yes Obamacare originally was a republican plan its the same plan New Gingrich and his crew came up with during the Clinton years, and subsequently was inacted in Mass. by Gov. Romney of all people

While it isn't perfect it prevents Gov't costs skyrocketing under single payer but insures that everyone is given a chance of having healthcare. The only problem is that it didn't address price gouging by medical companies, and private hospital systems, and either making healthcare costs transparent to where you could shop around, or regulating the industries that are profiting off research that the Gov't help fund in the first place.

>>730243620
Hmm, yes, tasty alternative facts fellow conservacuck.

>>730248637
I thought you were replying to a different anon that was talking about Trump and therefore you were talking about Trump.

You can say about Trump that he also started with single-payer (Made some comments about it) and compromised on a republican plan.

Your response was spot on, though. Kudos.

TL;DR I fucked up, you were on point

Let's do a twitch raid cause why not
Streamer: MCTCLive
L

>>730241899
>small minority
Obama got a nobel prize for being the first black president, even before he could actually do something. The majority of media companies AND educational institutions, as well as foreign politicians, went crazy over this, praising him like the black reincarnation of Jesus.

>>730249946
Don't even know why I did a reply to someone.
Ignore that.

>>730249946
>>730250078
As a leftie, that should have been a warning about how the establishment was behind him all along

>>730243453
democrats are automatically the party of anti-intellectualism and anti-science just by being the party that supports more than two genders and being accepting of transsexuals.

>>730250994
>Meanwhile, the GOP tries to allow states to teach Scripture

>>730250994
>Democrats are automatically the party of anti-intellectualism and anti-science

Like that compares to republicans: Religion bullshit, Anti-environmental bullshit, Economic bullshit, Social bullshit.

Also, not going to defend the democrat establishment but... The reasons you cited are not necessarily anti-science nor anti-intellectual

>>730251208
I would much rather have scripture be taught than have more than two genders or other liberal antiscience such as gender studies be taught or encouraged. In general human society was much more morally pure like 50 years ago when Christianity played a larger role in our society.

>>730251615
>In general human society was much more morally pure like 50 years ago when Christianity played a larger role in our society.
That's a nice opinion you have there, it's a shame it's fucking retarded.

>>730251615
>>730250994
>TFW you don't know what gender is

Not like christianity has been getting in the way of progress for about the entirety of history and whatever you are worried about genders and stuff is not going to amount to anything. Seriously guys, are you really that scared of a bunch of retards that want you to call them by silly names?

>>730251815
Not even close to being as retarded as encouraging guys to wear dresses and cut their dick/balls off. Or murdering babies under justification that it's cool because people should have all kinds of sex as if it's some casual act instead of something special. Your party is basically bringing society back to the corrupt morally evil ways from Roman orgies and all. While you call yourselves progressives, really you're just bringing us thousands of years back.

>>730252024
>you're just bringing us thousands of years back.
Irony is this statement coming from someone advocating for religion being taught in schools.

>>730240104
Because money is made criticizing him. He makes it easy.

Though the media did not go hard against Obama when they should have, and still need to.

>>730252024
>"Really you're just bringing us thousands of years back."

Said a conservative. Lol'd so hard I almost fell off. Your very name is based on not wanting to change and if you had your way throughout history we would still be licking mold out of rocks and dacing around a fire for fertility

>>730252024
>Or murdering babies under justification that it's cool because people should have all kinds of sex as if it's some casual act instead of something special.

Having sex is literally human nature. Sex itself doesn't warrant getting pregnant and having kids, both of which are life long consequences.

Forcing people to have kids because they had sex isn't a good idea either. Look at what good it does to China and India.

>>730252115
What liberals don't realize is that religion isn't the bad thing. America wasn't great before because it was an atheist nation. Atheism never was the national religion of the USA. Instead America was great because of religious freedom. You would be accepted no matter what religious belief you had and none in particular would be the state religion. That's completely different from what atheists are pushing for where they want atheism to be the state religion. Or liberals push for acceptance of Muslims or other minorities but they are hypocrites in that by supporting the minorities, they do so in a way where they oppress the majority. That's not pushing for equality at all.

Wanting to have religion in the classroom isn't bad at all. Like it or not religion is a part of the human species, unless you want to claim that atheism should be the state religion and all other religions should be purged, and if you think that, you immediately lose any credibility to be listened to and prove you're a retard.

>>730252688
>That's completely different from what atheists are pushing for where they want atheism to be the state religion.
There's a term for "atheism being the state religion," its called secularism and we've had a secular government since the adoption of the Constitution.

>>730252344
Conservative means you play it safe in that you only change when you need to adapt. They're the guys who go to a casino and play smart gambles, learn all the rules, know when to stay and when to hit. Liberals are insane gamblers who risk it all on a whim just because some new fad idea sounds cool and because they love to cause chaos and see what happens.

>>730252688
>he thinks atheists are trying to take over
Just because less and less people every year identify as religious doesn't mean there's a war on your particular superstition.

>>730252891
>cognitive dissonance

>>730252891
>Conservatives (...) smart.
You could have ended there, buddy.

>>730252688
>America wasn't great before because it was an atheist nation
America was never an atheist nation, it was secular, and still is and should be.

>>730252891
>Conservative means you play it safe in that you only change when you need to adapt

Conservative means to cling to old ideals even when new ones make the old ones obsolete.

>>730253295
You mean ideas that worked for most of human history? As opposite to Libtard ideas that make no sense?

>>730253709
>You mean ideas that worked for most of human history?
Like flat Earth? Or Earth being the center of the universe? Or shedding blood in surgery to be sinful? Or epilepsy being demonic possessions?

>>730253709
>You mean ideas that worked for most of human history

Like old ideas about medicine and science?

Nah, you idiots refuse to live in the present and bash everything as muh cucks, muh LIBRUHLS MUH PRUGRESSIVES

>>730253709
For most of history there was an 75% child mortality rate. Conservatives are all morons and don't understand how the world works.

>>730253709
You do realize almost the entirety of our society is the product of past liberals that got their way against conservatives? (Our democracy, our rights, our liberties...) We've come a long way from absolute monarchy.

>>730240104
maybe because he's retarded and probably also because their precious candidate lost to a retard...

>>730253975
No like old ideas that Man is Man and Woman is Women

>>730253709
>>730253975
How about we return to good 'ol blood-letting?

>>730254031
You understand how world works, so why aren't you sitting on chair where Trump is?
Libtard

>>730254139
You seem fixated on that little stupid point that is not even shared by most of liberals (hence, why Hillary lost)

>>730254139
The fact that this is the hill you choose to die on shows just how dumb you are.

>>730249946
yeah we get it the Nobel Prize has been a crock of shit for fucking Years. Henry Kissinger got a Nobel Prize for Peace too and he was one of Nixons more hawkish advisors during Vietnam.

>>730254139
>Because <1% of the population having gender-dysphoria truly affects everyones' lives for the worse.

>>730254139
Pretty sure most people agree on this one

>>730254031
What people don't realize is that it's the balance of conservative people and liberal people that causes the best progression of the human race. You need people who innovate and come up with crazy ideas and theories for the future, and you need people to hold those people in check to make sure the proper research is done on the subject before rushing into things that could very well be bad for us just because it seems like the right thing to do. Conservative doubts lead to perfecting the ideas so that there are less doubts and make it more realistic.

When things function like that, society works out great. The problem is we're starting to lose sight of that balance, and it has become heavily about attacking the other side and labeling them as evil instead of it being intellectual. Both sides are guilty of doing this now. SJWs make traditional people out to be villains and claim that they are a basket of deplorables. Conservatives do this in regards to gay hating and all. Can we all agree that the best choice is neither liberalism or conservatism but rather some balance of the two and that either extreme is bad?

>>730254209
Because he or she didn't run for presidency?

How fucking retarded are you?

>>730254497
touché...

>>730254497
>proper research
Who gets to decide what constitutes "proper research?" If you're talking about ethical implications then I'm afraid I have to disagree. Research that was done in the past using unethical methods by today's standards have had a great impact on improving the quality of life for many people. Sometimes the ends really do justify the means.

>>730254359
Just bringing up that fact cracks me up, a really fucked up world we live in.

>>730254769
As long as large portion of the population disagrees with an idea, that means the proper research isn't done yet. First and foremost we're a democracy, and attacking a large portion of the population and declaring their opinion shouldn't matter just because you disagree with it is being anti democracy. The collective population decides what we do, like it or not, and even if you think they're stuck in the past. There's a saying that if you really understand something, you can explain it in a way that even a 1st grader can understand it. So that means if liberals can't convince conservatives on something, that means either it's not the right choice, or there isn't enough research/understanding of it even for liberals, which is bad because you shouldn't be implementing something that even the side pushing for doesn't really understand the implications of.

>>730254542
Not retarded as your average Libtard

>>730255526
>declaring their opinion shouldn't matter just because you disagree with it
In many cases it's not that their opinions don't matter because we disagree. It's that their opinions don't matter because they are uneducated laymen who believe their opinions hold the same value as the opinions of someone who has worked in their scientific field for years. Just because some hillbilly has an opinion on climate change doesn't make his opinion equal to someone with a Masters degree.

>>730240104
because he wants to sabotage the democrat's plan to flood the country with illegal immigrants for a socialist society.

LIBERAL FAKE NEWS
I
B
E
R
A
L

>>730255834
That's not the point at all. If you look at an election, they do not give someone 10 votes because he's a scientist or give an uneducated black guy 1 vote. EVERYONE gets 1 vote which means EVERYONE is equal when it comes to our government. The fact that the liberals refuse to see this is exactly why Trump won the election.

Besides, attacking people by calling them uneducated deplorables is NOT the way to do an intellectual argument as name calling is one of the lowest things you can do. So really liberals have proven that they re NOT the intellectual side if their convincing arguments for their side is by calling anyone who disagrees racist, sexist, homophobic, uneducated moron, etc.

>>730256185
How do you have an intellectual argument with a group that has historically been suspicious of educated people and education as a whole?

>>730256332
By actually being educated regardless of what happens. Lowering yourself to their level is the mark of an uneducated person. You can't expect to easily convince someone of a belief they feel strongly against regardless of what it is. Name calling and calling someone uneducated is giving up on taking the intellectual approach and bringing yourself down to their level. Either that or liberals try to ignore the existence of or opinions of conservatives which was why no polls saw Trump's silent majority, because they refused to believe those people existed in their ignorance.

If you lack the means to convince someone intellectually, it means you don't even have enough understanding of why it's such a good idea yourself, and we shouldn't change society for that alone. It doesn't matter how educated or uneducated the person you're talking to is. He's still a citizen of this country with equal vote as you.

>>730256332
Trump finished maybe the best university about finance in the world

>>730257388
>If you lack the means to convince someone intellectually, it means you don't even have enough understanding of why it's such a good idea yourself
I suppose the objective fact that many of these people are immune to arguments based on fact and prefer to argue based on their feelings is lost on you.

>>730257388
Educated about what? What would an average Libtard know about chemistry or engineering or physics?Is that what he wants to talk about to me? What that has to do with politics? lel

>>730257575
>What would an average Libtard know about chemistry or engineering or physics?
Irony

>>730257638
It's not. I said ''average''.

>>730257575
>What would an average Libtard know about chemistry or engineering or physics
More than an average conservative? Please check the data on the subject

>>730257548
Yeah and both sides have been guilty of manipulating "facts" as they see fit for their own ends, so you can understand why conservatives would be ignorant of "facts" reported by the media elite too. You're a fool if you think that CNN and other MSM are objectively unbiased, and the fact that 100% of anything they report related to Trump is negative proves that. Why should anyone listen to those biased "facts"? Why should anyone listen to the sides who saw Hillary winning by a landslide and yet they were completely wrong? Are those the "facts" you refer to? I suppose it's somehow a fact that there's more than 2 genders now? Or wait, how about how blacks are more different biologically to whites than different species of animals yet we classify them all as humans because we don't want to be racist and how PC/SJW culture influences even our science books?

>>730256332
>I paid 80 thousand dollars to have a Jewish professor teach me about how all white people are evil, especially white men
Yeah you educated types are really brilliant.

>>730257934
How would you know what goes on at college since you never attended one?

>>730257837
Your best modern ''scientist'' is Bill Nye and some Tyrone guy LOL

>>730257866
>Blacks are more different biologically to whites than different species of animals

This is why you don't argue with conservatives dude, please educate yourself before you post. This is so stupid I'm starting to suspect you are a troll. I want the opinion of the other people debating this guy, was he a troll all along or nah?

>>730257548
>Implying liberals don't also argue based on feelings

Liberals argue on feelings way more than conservatives do... They're the side with the moral SJW compass and if you disagree with them then they have the right to crusade against you and ruin your life.

>>730258162
Both parties need to get the riff raff back under control. Liberals have the SJW types, we have the religious trash who oppose everything not in line with their particular superstition. I hate that we have become the party of stupid.

>>730241899
>Well, the right wing media were hateful and biased towards Obama

Fuck, someone had to be.

>>730257987
If only there was a way for people across the world to share their experiences and even videos!

>>730258738
>I saw a video so that must be what all of college is like.

>>730257837
The problem is that data is skewed because you can face discrimination in intellectual areas if you publicly identify as conservative because liberals are so tolerant and accepting am I right? You can definitely openly admit you voted for Trump without being called racist, sexist, etc.

I'm a software engineer and I voted for Trump. I graduated with a 4.0 GPA in getting my bachelor's degree in Computer Science. It's funny because if you don't count me into your data under the assumption that I'm lying, then you prove why data is skewed in favor of your side. If you can't believe the data then that would be because it was anonymous. If the data wasn't anonymous, then conservative intellectuals wouldn't vote in it because they don't want to be discriminated against for being conservative.

>>730258793
Are you going to deny that those things go on? Where do you think sjws come from, they're born that way?

>>730258908
You might come across that in a humanities class like Sociology or the like, but the majority of college isn't anything like that. Didn't your whore mother teach you not to believe everything you hear on the Internet?

>>730258877
So conservatives are discriminated against but if they weren't anonymous we'd see there are a lot of them, so.... If they are so many how come they are discriminated against? Your credentials are irrelevant to this conversation, only statistics matter and they show conservatives are a minority wherever intelligence shows up.

What did you say about me not counting you in the statistics? I really don't follow.

>>730259347
It's because by now it's basically become a stereotype that all college/intellectual communities are heavily liberal which is true to an extent. Or rather, we wouldn't know if it really wasn't true because the vocal liberals with their intolerance have made it impossible to find out the truth. I'm conservative too and even I think you might be right about there being a majority that are liberal. The problem is we'd have no way of knowing because it might be that 60% of my coworkers are conservative and yet we all assume that 90% are liberal and thus won't speak our political views out of fear of being discriminated against.

So while I'm not saying you're right or wrong, I'm saying there is a valid basis to the idea that the data could be skewed in the same way the polls were skewed on the election.

>>730248242
But poor people take advantage of the system... people like refugees... this is really simple. Why should I pay for my Neighbors Health Care, I don't go to the doctor why should I pay for it?

>>730259830
Now I get it, I doubt that what you say would change the statistics too much but I wouldn't deny that it could be happening. The polls of the election weren't off, the commentary about them was, it's funny to go back and watch establishment liberal commentators making fun of Trump while the very data they are quoting is within margin of error of him winning, it feels so stupid. If you take the average of polls close to the election, the results are not even outside the margin of error

>>730259985
Poor people taking advantage of the system is not that big of a deal, studies in single-payer countries show that it doesn't amount to even a portion of what a private system costs. Either you go full libertarian and defeat yourself intellectually or you admit that some social programs shouldn't be private (The army? Firefighters?). Hell, a good amount of libertarian thinkers have argued for universal healthcare.