Communism doesn't work. Neither does its horrible cousin

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1/

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>>729021752
not until technological advancements make human labor obsolete. then it might.

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>>729021861
Which economic system has brought about the best technological advances?

National highways and parks are socialism. Those "work" fine. The US has tons of social programs... things built by taxes for public use for the greater good.

>>729021861

Most human labour is obsolete. The only reason the majority of jobs havn't been taken over by robots is because people are unwilling to let them. The system has to change before people are going to let their jobs be taken by machinery.

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3/

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>>729022038
>every. single. time

>>729021752
>You cannot prove this assertion wrong
Except public schools, health care, police departments, fire departments, EMS, postal service are all constructs of socialism and all work.

>>729022132
Doesn't really fit your epic demotivational maymay, but sure. National highways are socialism and your image doesn't address that. ;)

>>729022162
>public schools

People have increasingly gotten less intelligent, despite funding increases over decades

>health care
Expensive as shit, thanks ObamaCare

>police departments
All them brutality cases

>fire departments
Voluntary ones are better

>EMS
Paid for in healthcare insurance

>postal service
Because DHS or FedEx isn't 1000x better

>>729022056
>>729021819

USSR acheived many great feats that were astounding under their circumstances, being under siege practically throughout their whole existence by hostile countries.

>>729022372
Your opinions don't change the facts...

>>729022232
Cool. So if government does x, then all these wars gotten be socialism too right?

You'd want to be consistent with your definition and defend the unpopular things government does too right?

>>729021752
Yes when we done it without taking care of the jew issue . But if you kill all jew anybody will oppose to egality because non jew have honnor

>>729022418
You think people are more intelligent since, say the early 20th century do you?

>>729021752
That moment when you realize that Communism destroyed one of Russia's most proudest treasures of all time; a bitchin ass dynasty of tsars...

>>729022372
yea, obamacare is singlehandedly responsible for high healthcare costs. we totally didnt have that problem before obamacare...

>>729022038
Go look up the definition of socialism then ram a cactus up your ass moron.

>>729022372

Look to any scandinavian country and see that their socialist programs are far superior than American programs. Heath care, education, infrastructure.

>>729022372
dhs, fedex and ups often use the postal service to transport their packages because its cheaper and faster.

>>729022013
communism

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>>729022550
Yeah 'cause the government was all hands off the healthcare system before right?

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Medicaid

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Medicare_(United_States)

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Clinton_health_care_plan_of_1993

>>729022569
kys

https://expathealth.org/healthcare-news/global-patient-wait-time-statistics/

>>729022372
DHS delivers TO USPS almsot all of the time.... it's cheaper that way. And FedEx just blows

>>729022372
Oh hey an american too blind to see other countries do this stuff right.

>>729022709
the guy said "thanks obamacare" as though that was the problem and not massive inefficiencies at every hospital in the country and overpaid doctors.

>>729022459
No, I'm not that invested.

>>729022556
There is no single definition that encapsulates socialism.

>>729022162
No they aren't. That is social spending. Social spending is not socialism. You have no idea what you are talking about.

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>>729022830
see >>729022788
Also

https://www.thelocal.se/20150127/swedens-health-care-is-a-shame-to-the-country

>>729022788
But there is no wait for emergency services.... at all...

>>729022842
>overpaid doctors
This is probably one those faggots that thinks fast food workers should make $25 an hour.

Kill. Your. Self.

Your grasp on macroeconomics is at a Bernie Sanders level.

>>729022875
Yes there are. Words mean definite concrete things, fuck off obfuscator.

>>729022875
Okay, but regardless of you being invested or not.

By your definition the military industrial complex is Socialism

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>>729021752

It looks like socialism does work after all.

>>729022979
theres a reason people see physicians assistants or nurse practitioners instead of mds for their outpatient meetings these days...

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>>729022953
>continues to assert incorrect opinion after overwhelming evidence the assertion is wrong

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-2121966/Woman-dies-ambulance-refuses-pick-able-talk.html

>>729021752
The reason why Marxism was so appealing was due to its sympathy for the horrible working conditions and low wages of the proletariat.

But times have changed. We have replaced human labor with machines. Jobs that have bad working conditions pay MUCH more than they used to. Workers are allowed to unionize, and in most mining and manufacturing industries, unions exist.

Everything that Marxism wanted for the proletariat has already been achieved without a violent revolution or dictatorship (in the US).

There is no need for socialism. Even the countries that claim to be socialist (Denmark, Sweden, etc) are really large welfare states. The means of production are owned by the state, but the state is made up of the bourgeoisie. Socialism requires a violent revolution because the bourgeoisie will not give up their power. Everywhere that has occurred, millions of people died. Cambodia, China, Russia, Cuba, the list goes on.

>>729023048
Wow, it's almost as if they are a small and culturally/racially homogeneous country.

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>>729023048
>corporate tax rate lower than the United States

http://www.tradingeconomics.com/norway/corporate-tax-rate

>>729022788
"elective surgeries"
"specialist appointments"

That article is misleading people by not explaining what those are.

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>>729022162
>health care,
Hospitals get a large portion of operating costs covered by trusts, grants and pledges.

>public schools
And public schools are shit. These are actually funded by the state. Coincidence that something funded by socialist ideology is garbage?

>police departments
Para-military arm of a standing government. Enough said.

>fire departments
Was a volunteer firefighter for 6 years. Fire houses are privately owned, usually by a trust fund kiddy looking to add some credibility to his portfolio.

>EMS
Sister is an EMT. It is not socialized. Much like hospitals, privately owned and run.

>postal service
Ditto. It is REGULATED by the government because it's considered critical national infrastructure by DHS & other agencies, but it isn't funded by them.

>constructs of socialism and all work
Perhaps unsurprisingly, you understand little regarding the underlying mechanics of the society in which you live.

Don't feel bad -- europeans don't know how EU administrative councils get elected.
Protip: They don't get elected. It's a trick question, but eurocucks fall for it everytime.

>>729023119
Marxism isn't about communism.... Marxism isn't a thing but he wrote about how capitalism will fail not how communism will succeed. Try actually reading Marx

>>729023155
they aren't....

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>>729021752

>>729022416
They won the race to the space.

>>729021752
Communism doesn't work in practice.
Same thing with large-scale paratrooper assaults in warfare.
Theoretically functional until you add humans into the mix and actually consider history.

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>>729023322
>and lookey how correct he was

oh right, the scores of reformism, national socialism

whew lad, so close, much genius Marx

When big business conspires to keep wages low, people genuflect and call it "capitalism."

When labor tries to get a fair share of the pie, people stomp that idea flat and call it "communism."

>>729022940
long and short of it?

It's the cost that causes shorter wait times, less people can afford treatment so those with economic status get treatment, while the majority of sick and injured are left untreated due to the cost.

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>>729022979
Bernie thread?

>>729023449
the National Socialist party wasn't actually socialist.....

Of course it doesn't... Neither does Capitalism, however. Thinking it's better to just let the rich and corporations have their way though? Well, that's for sheep. Bahhh bahh.

>>729023489
This.
I've seen free clinics in countries with socialized health care. I've been to UK, France, Germany, NZ and Canada.

The wait times compared to a free clinic in the US, let alone a private practice clinic? Holy fucking nutbutter.

Also if you live in a country with socialized health care and you need an organ transplant; just kill yourself now.

>Standing armies are socialism.
go ahead and tell me you would be better off hiring a private military to defend your country. Remember, if the can be hired, then they can be bought.

>Court system is socialism
Go ahead and tell me you would be better off paying for access to privately owned courts.

>nuff said.

>>729023322
Marx wrote about how capitalism would fail eventually.

He also wrote about the different types of socialism: Utopian, Electoral, and Revolutionary.
In the communist manifesto, it is repeated multiple times that one of the goals of the communist party was to abolish private property.

Marxism is an ideology; communism is its application.

I believe it is you who needs to reread the communist manifesto.

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>>729023581
>nationalization of banks
>nationalization of workers unions
>Nationalization of industries

The state taking hold of all that means of production how, unrelated to socialism

>>729023581
The National Socialist party wasn't exactly far right either. It was authoritarian-centrist.

>>729023845
socialism is about giving the rights to the workers, not a dictator...

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>>729021752

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>>729023623
>y-yeah t-they're both terrible as each other

>>729023947
>socialism is about giving the rights to the workers, not a dictator...
Problem. People in large groups are retarded. It's called groupthink and mob mentality.

Source: Western Democracy

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>>729023947
k.

We'll just believe your specific nuance of socialism and ignore over 100 years of history shall we?

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>>729021752
1) We make enough food to feed everyone
2) We waste tonnes of it
3) We farm inefficiently i.e. not enough GM and too much cattle
4) False Scarcity makes you think capitalism is necessary but really we live in a society where some dipshits get born into billions and get super-yachts whilst billions starve.

>>729023947
Socialism has little to do with "workers rights". It's simply state ownership and/or control over the means of production.
Socialism makes no claim to right or wrong, fair or unfair. These are all judgments and subject to opinion.

>>729023294
Except im american, not european. Public schools are better than private schools here because a private school is more likely to be religious affiliated and be total shit at teaching science (though admitedly decent at any other subject). Fire departments here are not privately owned. While there are tons of commercial EMS services near the largest cities the majority are still paid for by the county. Postal service here IS funded by the government (and stamp purchases).

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>>729023860
> Which is why no far-right groups idolise the Nazis...........
> Oh wait
> Nazis were right-wing as fuck don't try any of that revisionist ahistorical nonsense.

>>729023489
"Swedish patients have reacted to the poor availability of medical care by highly justified dissatisfaction. The official national guideline for the maximum waiting time to see a doctor in primary care in Sweden is seven days (ridiculously long compared to many other countries). Only Portugal has longer expected waiting times.

Current surveys suggest that the waiting time for family physicians and specialists in the Greater Stockholm area currently appears to be up to one month.

The county councils and the Swedish Association of Local Authorities and Regions' (SKL) excuses are well known: shortage of doctors, large migration to urban areas, nurses fleeing the profession, and so on.

But in reality, Sweden has no fewer doctors and other health professionals than most other countries in the study.

There is no relationship between money supply and availability. Albania, one of Europe's poorest countries, has no waiting time at all. And population movements and demographic changes are taking place all across Europe, not just in Sweden."

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> Even the idiots in Cuba are doing better than USA in many ways and what they call socialism is questionable + USA has been blockading them for decades

>>729024166
>far right groups idolize the Nazis

https://archive.org/stream/NationalSocialismALeft-wingMovement/NSLM_djvu.txt

stop talking about things your Democrat history teacher taught you.

>>729024093
socialism and communism can only exist in a democratic society by definition.

>>729024063
Moron.

You're the type of idiot who thinks we can just transport fruits and vegetables to africa to end starvation.
>And that, that would be a good idea.

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But Jesus was a commie

>>729024214
>2

Funny, coming from a commie. The utter lack of self-awareness is astound.

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>>729024305
Venezuela elected Chavez yet...

>>729024214
this.

>>729021752
Socialism seems to work quite well in Scandinavia.

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You can't prove an political assertion wrong its all based on value judgments and who you choose to believe.

>>729024209
>
Current surveys suggest that the waiting time for family physicians and specialists in the Greater Stockholm area currently appears to be up to one month.
damn dude it took me almost 6 months to see a gastroenterologist for a stomach ulcer diagnosed in the emergency room here in the albany ny area. i would love a 1 month wait time.

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>>729024214

>>729024109
>Postal service here IS funded by the government (and stamp purchases).
So where do you think the money to ship that box of dildos from amazon to you goes...?

>While there are tons of commercial EMS services near the largest cities the majority are still paid for by the county.
I don't think you've ever had to get picked up by an ambulance.

Let's be clear here. Subsidized operating costs != socialized services. You're talking about subsidized expenditures--someone still has to pay for them. That's why an EMS bill usually starts at $500 and works it's way up, and why you have to pay for shipping packages and letters.

You're still paying additional fees, ontop of taxes that may or may not go into postal services and EMT services in your local area. That's private income expenditure--not taxation .

What most of you don't undestand is that insurance - ANY FORM of insurance - is a form of socialism.
Pooling resources from everyone to pay a few "needy" is a socialist concept. Thus, any form of it is socialism.
And that is exactly what insurance does. Just because somebody makes money off it doesn't matter. Putting lipstick on a pig doesn't make it any less of a pig.

Thus, OP is saying all forms of insurance is a failure. To which I agree.

>>729024402
you misspelled the world

>>729024402
As seen in Sweden, and the fact that on a global scale, scandinavian countries aren't even bit players.
Try harder.

>>729021861
and scarcity

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Nah the future is either:
> Fully
> Automated
> Luxury
> Gay
> Space
> Communism

or apocalypse

>>729021752
In theory it makes sense and works. According to history, it doesn't work in practice because of greed and laziness.

The reason capitalism doesn't work is because the unemployed stay unemployed, and those in low paying jobs have no job security.

While it works in the higher realms where you have the experience to actually negotiate with your employer, hourly employees have no negotiation power with the employers so walmart/krogers/best buy/mcdonalds will just pay you as little as they can, and companies other than that type of job will just ignore you.

Capitalism works in the upper realms, where you have the background to where you're a desirable employee, which is entirely based on luck and what class you were born into.

Fact is those that are smart with their money having them in even "safe" investments putting 100k into an investment account is enough to generate the poverty line.

You don't even have to be that rich to generate enough money passively to sustain your existence. So why is helping people so difficult for you?

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>>729024550

>>729024402 Please read the thread before embarrassing yourself

>>729022788
>>729022940
>>729023110
>>729023211
>>729023671

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>>729021752

>>729024305
Also not true. State ownership/control says NOTHING of who owns/controls the state.

>>729024281
>not shown: the appaling living standards, lack of human rights and lack of food

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>>729021861
We would be a lot closer to automated paradise if it wasn't easier for capitalists to exploit workers in the global South.

>>729023098
Except midlevel practitioners still bill at the exact same rates you tard. People see them because if physician shortages and one doctor with 4 PAs working under him can see 5 times as many patients.

>>729024366
Not to mention extreme crime rates and corruption in Venezuela

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>>729024653
>mfw Henry Ford literally created the weekend to make his workers more productive and to allow them more time to spend their wage boosting the local economy

>>729024671
is there a lack of food in cuba? every time i see cubans on tv theyre fucking fat pigs.

>>729024763
but he was a elected! so that's that!

Elections also can't be fixed at all!!1

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>>729022013
> Actually people did labour, capitalism just decides on the economics of it.

> Secondly government funding is actually the biggest factor in tech development

> Thirdly the financial sector drains a high % of our intellectual power working on ways to trade debts and securities which even stock-brokers struggle to explain.

>>729024025
Ignoring a person in need because of all the idiots.

Idiot.

>>729024794
you mean the ones that fled Cuba on shitty home built rafts over shark infested waters to get to Florida in a country of horrific capitalism?

>>729024742
pas make like 120. specialists make like 300. where does that money come from?

Can't we just all agree that capitalism combined with some government intervention here and there (affordable healthcare and education, some environmental regulations, a reasonable minimum wage) is the best system?

/thread?

>>729024460

>gr8b8m8ir85/7

>>729024583
Triggered liberal is triggered

>>729024063
>whilst billions starve

Those billions starve because they are not self sufficient and unable to feed themselves. Their birthrates skyrocketed when the west gave them relatively easy access to medicine (thanks capitalism by the way) and they refused to adapt accordingly, meaning they kept the old pre-industrial birthrates and expect to be fed, leading to shortage of food and starvation follows.

>>729024900
you mean socialism

>>729024848
>people just do things and invent things for no reward

>everyone wakes up in the morning with happy feelings of the collective good will and don't want to make money at all

>>729024900
>weaponizing greed
no

>>729024671
>lack of human rights
the only place on Cuba where human rights are grossly violated is Guantanamo Bay

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>>729021819
> Like Russia wasn't starving under the Czar
> The advances Russia made under Communism were impressive if you actually look at the historical context of Czarist Russia + the destruction brought by WW2

> Don't get me wrong there was a lot of fucked up shit with the USSR but let's have some nuance for once

>>729024675
Industrial automation engineer reporting in.

Your picture makes no sense.

Pretty much all economic activity comes down to sex.
We do what we do to collect the shit we trade to women for sex. That some people have become fascinated with collecting huge piles of shit they will never trade doesn't matter. The fact that they started collecting shit in the first place was for the purpose of trading it for sex.

This has been the case since the very first dude who killed more than he could eat.

>>729022132
Move to Somalia

>>729024868
nah, the ones when cnn does some goofy "lets check out cuba before we ruin it with kfc and marriots" specials and they talk to the people there about their food and culture. they all look way overweight.

>>729024109
What the fuck are you talking about?
No one actually thinks this.

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>>729024900

>mixed markets

Corporate shill detected

>>729022372
People have gotten less inteligent in the US because you are all retarded

>>729024321

/thread

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>>729024971

>>729024766
Henry Ford did a lot of things to avoid a socialist uprising among his employees.

>>729024900

Capitalism is based on exploitation. An employer makes a profit by paying employees less than what their labor is actually worth.

Why not get rid of the middle man and allow a man's work to decide his profit, not an employer?

>>729022459
War isn't necessary unless you're invaded.

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>>729021861

>>729022038
You are... Right.

>>729024109
each states schools are different.

For example it's laughable to say that Texas schools are shit, doesn't mean schools everywhere don't need a reform to accommodate for the fact that no person learns the same as another. Fact is each state has different schools, worst part is people that live in a shitty state and grew up with a shitty education are apparently the judge on how shitty it is...

I mean basically if somebody is right about their schools being shit, they have to admit to being uneducated.

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> that's why
> ANARCHISM :)

>>729024848
>Secondly government funding is actually the biggest factor in tech development

So what you're saying is "the desire to make a profit is what creates new tech"? Are you trying to undermine your own argument?

>>729022510
I know people who grew up in the 1930s. They said that kids today are more informed.

>>729024853
>Ignoring a person in need because of all the idiots.
On the contrary, my point was to abolish western democracy as the de-facto form of democracy.

It is a generalized democracy. Generalities are a flawed summary of intentions and goals, and thus have failure built-in to its' purpose from inception.

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>>729025125
comrade sonic knows what up

>>729025119
war is necessary whenever there is scarcity
the implication that people can peacefully cohabitate is ludicrous
enjoy your fantasy world, please, for the rest of us that have to live in the real world

>>729024321

this

>>729022788
The US has the same issues with worse results despite being capitalist.

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> F
> A
> L
> C

>>729025111
Look at reality please. Which countries are the best places to live?
In my country we've got garbagemen and receptionists who earn 2000 euros a month. That is not exploitation. Capitalism combined with limited govt regulation is the best system.

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"Suppose that, at a given moment, a certain number of people are engaged in the manufacture of pins. They make as many pins as the world needs, working (say) eight hours a day. Someone makes an invention by which the same number of men can make twice as many pins: pins are already so cheap that hardly any more will be bought at a lower price. In a sensible world, everybody concerned in the manufacturing of pins would take to working four hours instead of eight, and everything else would go on as before. But in the actual world this would be thought demoralizing. The men still work eight hours, there are too many pins, some employers go bankrupt, and half the men previously concerned in making pins are thrown out of work. There is, in the end, just as much leisure as on the other plan, but half the men are totally idle while half are still overworked. In this way, it is insured that the unavoidable leisure shall cause misery all round instead of being a universal source of happiness. Can anything more [irrational] be imagined?"
— Bertrand Russell, "In Praise of Idleness," 1935

>>729024209
The point I was making is that when more people can afford healthcare, more people can use the healthcare, creating a higher demand of it.

It's basic capitalism, understanding this part of health care is an important part to creating a reform.

It's not like it's an easy thing to do, what is an easy thing to do is to make sure everybody get's medial treatment.

>>729025050

True. But fuck other people.

>>729025111
>An employer makes a profit by paying employees less than what their labor is actually worth
A lot of labourers are payed much more than their labour is actually worth.

>>729025251
>the earth has 4 moons
Communism. Ill-educated cucks.

>>729025251
>fucking sputnik
>implying that this future would have ever been possible under human rule when humans are shitty, selfish creatures

>>729025108
Lmao

Detroit was a city with a highly competitive labor market, that's what drove him to pay people $5 a day - it attracted the most skilled and most loyal employees, that's how his company was so successful

had sweet fuck all to do with your wet dream courtesy of a 150 year old economic theory that only accounts for 2 class systems

>>729024999
>The advances Russia made under Communism

You mean what they managed to scrape from Germany and stole from America to create inferior replica?

>Like Russia wasn't starving under the Czar

Not even remotely on the same level as the starvation in the USSR, educate yourself.

Also, your picture makes no sense, but that is to expected from Commies.

>>729021752
Keep posting shill

>>729025073
FACT: 45,001 Americans LIVE because of excellent private health care

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Mfw seeing commies in the anti commie thread

>>729024059

Sorry, those have little to do with communism. Any shitty power freak can claim to be doing good for people when really just working for themselves and their friends.

>>729025298
How much is their labor worth?
>Now answer this - How much money does their labor generate?
Again, how much is their labor really worth?

The difference is called exploitation.

>>729024671
Before Castro took over the human rights violations were a lot worse. Batista allowed what was pretty much slave labour

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>>729021752

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>>729025419
>tax dollars spent

>capitalism

>>729024971
Right, I forgot Cuba is a haven for human rights, free speech and expression and political discourse, not like literally every other communist dicatorship or anything.

>>729024999
>tfw when u have to literally steal b-29's and copy them part for part so you can have a plane capable of short range nuclear warfare
lololololololololol

>>729025409
I work 8 hours a day 5 days a week and I can feed myself just fine.
I can also afford a GTX 1080ti and a nintendo switch + breath of the wild.

Your wanting to be lazy and never do a hard days' work is why you push communism.

>>729022885
Youre so fucking stupid! "Social spending" hahahahahhaa social spending is socialism dumb butt! That has to be bar none the dumbest thing ever said on 4chan! What are you 12? Social spending. Ahhahahahahahahhahaha fucking retarded!

>>729025504
>thinks a capitalistic model can't have taxation

Not the brightest are you?

>>729025419
>the racist criminal justice system
It's not racist. Whites are simply more civilized than blacks. Blacks are prone to more crime because of low IQ, retarded culture and other genetic factors.

>>729024873
It's really sad when people who don't work in the field talk like they have even a basic understanding. PAs are employees. It is illegal for them to practice independently.

They work under the license of a physician who is their employer and determines their salary usually with billing incentives.

They bill for services at the exact same rate, the physician receives the reimbursement/payment and pays the PA with that amount. Anything extra they keep.

Also, most PCPs where the majority of PAs and NPs are employed do not come close to 300k. They are often barely in the 200s and the midlevels sometimes don't even make 100. FYI I'm an NP.

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>>729021860

>>729025509
to be fair, they're starting to come around to classical liberalism like most of the rest of the western world.

>>729025360
That isnt earth you retarded piece of american shit

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>>729024999
>Governments committing atrocities

>capitalism

>>729024308
africa no, the market a town over to reduce the price, yes.

The point is farmers store produce they farm and don't supply it until the price goes up, making food more expensive than it needs to be.

The reality is we should be so efficient at agriculture that domestic hunger shouldn't be a thing.

But it is, because it's cheaper to destroy food than to sell it to the market.

>>729025675
Oh so what planet is it?
Tau Ceti V?

>>729022372

Nice collection of exaggerations, red herrings, and straw man arguments. Quality examples of poor argumentation. You should see if some Professor can use them as examples.

>>729025099
Millions of people who die because they were introduced to post-industrial levels of technology and still have pre-industrial birth rates. It's not capitalisms fault Africans threw out or killed every single person who knew how to farm, nor is it capitalisms fault that nature is running its course, as it always does with overpopulation of any animal.

>>729025625
>i'm an NP
tits or get out.

>>729025615
>thinks taxation is done by the private enterprise

Not the most financially aware are you?

>>729025417
Inferior replica? Put a B—29 against a TU—4 and tell me what happens

>>729021752

Communisim isn't moral. Theft is wrong and everyone is entitled to what they are able to achieve through their own work. No one has the right to take that from anyone else. Taking it and spreading it around the population is wrong and nothing more than theft.

>>729025735
>The reality is we should be so efficient at agriculture that domestic hunger shouldn't be a thing.
Well that, and you can thank the demonization of genetically-engineered crops and foods for rising produce costs.

>>729025773
>thinks private enterprises don't control the levers of government

Painfully naive aren't you?

>>729025111
>muh ebul employers

Without that employer you'd have no job, or worse, would have to compete with literally millions of people who do your job for less pay than what your employer would've given you. And guess what would happen then, that's right, they'd band together, build a new corporation, with a new boss and we're back to square one.

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> Look into democratic confedralism
> The real way forward

>>729025509
>not like literally every other communist dicatorship
Cuba is very different from other communist dictatorships. Cuba doesn't have concentration camps like North Korea / Stalin's USSR. Cuba doesn't murder its own citizens like Pol Pot in Cambodia. Cuba doesn't actively block its citizens from emigrating to capitalist countries like the DDR. Cuba doesn't torture prisoners on a large scale like most communist countries (and the USA). There is a lot more freedom in Cuba than almost all other communist countries that ever existed.

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ITT:

Literal butt enraged liberal dems and europoors made about America being #1

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>>729025922

>>729025484
>CEO doesn't work meme
Sometimes Communists really know how to look like the flat-earthers of politics.
>inb4 muh eebil capitalism
Capitalism isn't perfect, but it can at least sustain itself through natural instincts like hierarchical structures and competition. The

>>729022372
Literally all these things are done better in countries other than America, especially in more socialistic countries.

>>729025882
So who takes in taxes exactly anon? I am curious

>>729025344
who knew, healthcare is as simple as buying candy bars

>>729025451
>that wasn't REAL communism

Every.
Single.
Time.

>>729025752
I'm a male NP you fucking faggot.

>>729025948
Which is why Cuba is communistic in name only.
It's akin to China--largely capitalism-centric.

Nice try, trying to paint Cuba as some idyllic beachside communist paradise though.

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>>729025509
> Oops you're right I forgot the US spreads human rights across the world by exploiting billions, bombing thousands and torturing people.

>>729025391
this is adorable

>capitalism works BECAUSE of human nature
>because those rewards are the incentive to improve the lives of others when human nature is shitty and wouldn't (readily) allow it otherwise because of scarcity
>Except it works perfectly for capitalists and those willing to take risk that others are not (capitalists)
>lmfao no thanks, the quality of life in the US is much higher (they can come here, though, or die trying [risk])
>no it's not and the implication that the misuse of communism hasn't killed more people per hour than the misuse capitalism is hilarious seeing that it's the individuals responsibility in capitalism to save themselves instead of waiting on the government to feed them (when the government power is being abused and misused by the leaders of said government)

What if communism gave everybody everything?

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>>729025419
dude, the whole thing follows a very predictable distribution curve

It's given by: the sum from 1 to infinity of (1-2*integral from 0 to 1 of pop. times gdp)*x^i

There is nothing anyone can do about this fact, it is simply the way that numbers are distributed. What we can do is make the economy stronger, so that despite the increasing population, the distribution of money can keep more of the population above the poverty line.

This criticism would also work better if there were a better option. As it says, this is the richest country in the world. Everyone else is worse off, especially countries that are not capitalistic

>>729026008
Nix "the," it was a typo.

>>729025948
>usa tortures prisoners on a large scale
evidence for that claim?

>>729025726
He literally gets paid to do that tho.

>>729025439
this.

>>729025616
>inb4 all disease is racist because sickle cell anemia afflicts blacks at a higher rate

>>729026153
>implying the rich don't work
Where do you think they get that money?

>>729024900
people that disagree with you don't raise families & live off their parents.

>>729026058
lol then youre the faggot. should have gone with the more manly PA degree. nursing is for women and queers.

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>>729026153
Well if a communist says "Nuh uh, capitalism is socialism maaaaaan." then I guess it's fucking gospel.

>Guaranteed most ignored post right here.
With all your 'isms, everyone is missing the most fundamental problem that causes all economic systems to fail. The use of money itself.
Money has had a good 7000+ year run dealing with scarcity. But today, we no longer have that problem with most things. Today, we are technically capable of feeding everyone, of housing everyone, of providing education, medicine, and all manner of services to everyone. So why don't we? Because of money itself.
Due to the nature of money, it cannot operate in an environment of abundance. Give a people all they want of a thing, and the monetary value of it drops to zero, and nobody can make a profit. So what do we do? We artificially create a scarcity for the sole purpose of preserving profits and keep using money.
What is the root motivation for most crime? Money. What keeps us from feeding the world? money. What keeps us from housing everyone? Money.

Money has become the root of most our social problems. And any economic model that continues to use money will continue to have all our social problems. Money, by its very nature, creates scarcity out of abundance.

>>729026278

By exploiting the proletariat's labor.

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>>729026107
> Muh human nature
> Thinking you're clever cause 'human nature'
Human nature is a product of social conditions

Humans are a product of their material conditions rather than some transcendental sense of human nature. That is to say, in our society the way we understand motivation is the idea of profit. In other societies it has been different. Take for example feudal societies where a sense of duty and honour is a key motivator. To a feudal person the world is understood in terms of duties rather than taking the most personally "profitable" action. Moreover for many societies the world is understood through a religious lens. It's difficult to put ourselves in the shoes of someone with such a mindset but it is essential to understanding that our profit driven mindset is not universal but merely the product of a profit driven society.

>>729026090
shut up, those are just parts of the "peace process"

>>729025757
I don't want to live in a prosperous, free and fair society where even the poor can afford things that are considered luxuries literally everywhere else in the world. No, I'd much rather live in a society where nobody has anything, the state controls what we can say, think and do, and where I get to eat something once a week, now that is the real deal.

>>729026278
inheritance. by a clear majority.

>>729026229
I wouldn't even call that hard work
I wouldn't even call it work
W=fdcos(theta)
It might be hard work because he's fat, I guess.

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> inb4 muh human nature

The idea human nature doesn't mean anything it's just a way of masking your beliefs as something which is intuitive to all. As soon as you try and agree on some universal sense of what is human all consensus dissolves.

>>729024900
yea, this thread is full of generalized arguments. its the intervention here and there part that people who read and go to school (not me) actually debate, and people like us cant understand the nuances because we dont read.

>>729026344
Maybe if this was sharecropping times in the 19th century. Rich gotta work too, they're so busy that their kids grow to resent them because they're always working shit out and trying to keep their stock afloat. But all you faggots see is a pig shitting on people then act enlightened because you wanna transform the world into a sandbox.

>>729026451
Says the cuck worshipping communism like a kool-aid chugging marxist acolyte.

>>729026337
>feeding the world
>when starvation is literally the only thing keeping the population in Africa and parts of Asia in check

>>729026428
their parents worked hard so their kids and grandkids would be better off. isnt that part of working?

>>729026428
[citation needed]
And that source better credible without partisanship.

>>729026278
From previous generations mostly. The ultra rich billionaires have often not "worked" in two or more generations. They have investment portfolios built from money their great grandparents earned as oil and steel tycoons that earns millions in annual interest just by sitting on it.

They don't even manage the investments themselves, they pay people to do that while they golf and complain about taxes on money they did literally nothing to earn.

>>729026428
You do of course realize that is complete hogwash, right? No social group changes more YEARLY than the top 1 to 10%.

>>729026467
Some of the busiest people in the world are already rich enough that they need not work at all.
The argument that people need to be motivated by money is wrong.

>>729026228
Guantanamo
Abu Graibh
tons of other "secret" prisons (google it)

>>729026559
because nobody tells them their real value
would be kind of stupid wouldnt it?

>>729021752

National socialism works- go back to r/t_d

>>729026451
>capitalism killed billions

[citation needed]

>>729026345
I borrowed "human nature" straight from the picture. I would have called it greed; "Human nature" is unspecific.
"Human nature" is the product of much more than mere social status.
GLHF with your idiocy.

>tl;dr, btw

>>729026668
most people are not already rich enough that they dont need to work. its true money isnt the sole motivator, people usually pick a profession they are interested in.

>>729026562
Incorrect. People in Africa have large families because their children are seen as their only source of social security. They're hoping that at least one child will become wealthy enough to care for them in their old age.

Americans did the same thing before the 1940s.

>>729023048
Do not confuse the result of centuries in a liberal economy whith socialism

>>729026668
>Some of the busiest people in the world are already rich enough that they need not work at all.

Wrong. They are rich precisely BECAUSE they are incredibly busy. And in most cases, only stay rich because they are busy.

>>729026681
that isnt a large scale.

Countries with best system:

1. Switzerland
2. Canada
3. Australia
4. Denmark
5. Netherlands

>>729026668
Busyness != work
nor does work = value
thanks for your response, ig

>>729026861
Thousands of people over 20+ years, I would call that large scale.

>>729021819
kek, they always bring up the space shit as a last resort

>>729026851
So why do they STAY busy after amassing all that wealth?
>check m8

>>729025247
the solution is birth control, not war

>>729022056
>literal meme tier anti-communist propaganda
brilliant

>>729026915
considering there are millions of prisoners in the US and billions of people in the world, that isnt a large scale

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Oook

>>729026823
>Incorrect. People in Africa have large families because their children are seen as their only source of social security.

aka pre-industrial birth rates, despite the fact they get post-industrial levels of medical aid from the west, which means more children actually grow up than should be possible, meaning more mouths to feed, meaning more starvation.

>>729026993
If 2000 or 6000 people are tortured, then that's large scale. No matter how many prisoners there are in total.

>>729026996
the hammer and sickle is objectively a badass symbol. doesnt matter what your political opinions are, their flag was pretty sweet.

>>729023155
>culturally/racially homogeneous country
you cant flip between "norway is nice because its all white people" and "norway is flooded with niggers" as it suits you...

>>729027005
>which means more children actually grow up than should be possible, meaning more mouths to feed, meaning more starvation

Myth #141: hunger is caused by overpopulation

>>729026903
So when Princess Dianna convinced the United Nations to ban land mines, you're saying she was doing it for money? Or are you saying her efforts had no value?

>>729026307
>no you
Kill yourself hick boy. Only complete trash still have that mindset about nurses.

Besides, PAs have no autonomy. I live in a state where NPs can practice independently and I work in a specialty making more than PCP physicians without anyone taking a cut of my pay for my work.

What do you do and how much do you make manly man? Im betting manual labor.

>>729023449
>hidler was a lefdist :DDDD

>>729027050
nope, its gotta be relative to the number of people imprisoned as a whole.

look at how countries like pakistan or saudi arabia interrogate prisoners. that's torture on a large scale.

>>729026950
>So why do they STAY busy after amassing all that wealth?

So they stay wealthy, and because they are industrious by nature. They can't not do something.

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NOTHING YOU GUYS SAY MATTERS ANYMORE. DOLAND DRUMPF IS PRESIDENT SO FACTS ARE NOW LIES AND ORANGE IS THE NEW BLACK. THE HOLOCAUST NEVER HAPPENED AND THE EARTH IS FLAT. YOU HAVE 17 SECONDS TO OBEY.

>>729027090
yep. capitalism sure produces a lot of food and houses.

>>729026967
>force people to do this one thing because you said so
>force people to do this one thing because you shoot their friends
I'm not seeing a difference in the end result or why I would comply with the first one when I cognize your reasoning but still want to have another baby
>Jim had a baby last week and now you're not allowed to have one
lol ok

>>729027005
IF you were correct, then the European and Japanese birthrate should still be high.
>your argument is invalid.

>>729025601
Actually he is right, socialism must work as a global system, not only in a few sections of the government. socialism and capitalism cant be in the same gov

>>729027144
i'm 24 and retired because my dad was a hugely successful chemical engineer with like 40 patents, then became a patent attorney and now is the lead attorney for a multinational.

>>729027313
so what?

>>729026620
>he thinks old money is dominant
Yes, and the earth is flat and vaccines give autism.

The market is expected to expand as Gen Z pursues entrepreneurial fields and things like funeral services are projected to rake in more cash. This means new wealthy folks, because the fact of the matter is Capitalism is a fragile ecosystem that needs constant nourishment via market changes and competition. The rich isn't the majority of people on inheritance and what's to you if there are some who are? They're just as entitled to that money as their ancestors who had striven to make a name and easy living for their descendants. Not only that but not even the rich are totally safe from recessions and depressions and they end up being that ratty fuck begging for spare change. Even friends of mine who grew up wealthy are now poorer and have debts to settle because of 2008. Meanwhile I moved from poorer working class to middle class; it's all relative to evolution and survival, hence why people say Capitalism is human nature.

>>729027328
You aren't retired, you are a trust fund baby. Huge fucking difference

>>729027090
>18 million die each year from poverty-related causes
Extreme poverty has decreased by 50% over the last 4 decades. Mostly because of the introduction of capitalism in Asia.

>There are more than 5 vacant homes for every homeless person in the US
That's because there aren't as many homeless people as you'd think there are.

>77.5% of US households are in debt
That's because they have a mortgage. No problem.

>>729027139
I should have put a "necessarily" in there twice.
Thank-you for bringing this incongruity to my attention.

>Your argument that having more mouths to feed in countries where landmines are commonly present is humorous to me

>>729027475
not really. I dont have to do shit all day.

>>729023671
Brit fag here can confirm, took me 3 hours to get a fucking blood test.

>>729027525
Right, just like trust fund babies. If you made your own fortune working, then stopped, that would be retirement. Your just suckling at daddy's teat

>>729027594
nah, i'm retired.

Yugoslavia. Socialism did work. OP is a fagg

>>729027567
did you make an appointment, or just show up?

>>729027328
Holy. Fuck. You are a trust fund child with the audacity to insult others career choices. That's beyond having no self awareness. Your father should be ashamed he let's you live as a parasite. Seriously not as a joke, take a good look at yourself and your biases if you are lucky enough to "retire" at an age most kids are coming out of school with tens of thousands in loans and a lifetime of +40 hour work weeks ahead of them.

This is just sad.

>>729027636
lmfao

>>729027636
So you are a leech and stupid. Kys

>>729027765
If i'm a leech and smart do I have to kill myself?

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>>729027636
This fucking guy

>>729027825
Yes. No better than a welfare stealing nigger

>>729021752
The first thing to realize is that the society works regardless of it's form and internal functions because of one reason: greed and need. This literially covers everything from wars, communism, capitalism, dictatorships, etc.

It's not always justified but it works. Now lets talk about justice.

Now lets talk about justice. In terms of society justice is that everyone gets a share. Not their share but a share anyway. They get something out of their effort. In communism and dictatorships this doesn't happen except for the chosen few whom gain that through corruption. In capitalism this happens but it's very minimal because the mechanisms of trade; to make a profit you must impoverish a person for a certain amount. The amount itself determines if it's ethical or not, but in a world of mass production even a small profit margin equals same as asking for a lot. It doesn't rob individuals it robs the system. In this sense capitalism is flawed: there will be few very powerful people and a lot of poor people. And the thing is that bread doesn't get that much more expensive and thus after a certain point you don't ever need to work again; a lot of money simply equals more money regardless of what you do.

And there are people, families and organizations that seek to plot against the system all the time. This is why laws(especially regarding taxing) are so complex; because people with money and power seek to create more means of obtaining those two, and in democracies the way to do so is by creating loopholes in the law.

>>729027739
its not insulting someones career choice to point out they picked a woman's job.

>>729027401
I was only implying that about the richest of the rich. Billionaires very rarely fall out of that category and very few enter it. They are mostly multi generational and even those that do work usually have their positions handed to them through family connections.

There is a class of rich you can't really imagine unless you've mingled with them. My family is in the accursed one percent and our entire net worth is less than some of my father's business associates annual spending.

I really don't know how to show pepole that haven't seem it.

>>729027765
not a leech if your parents want you to not have to work.

>>729026278
The rich don't work nearly as hard, the middle class and lower class do most of the work. the upper class get paid so much that they spend a majority of their time working, doing nothing. It only takes 100k to never have to work a day in your life again.

>>729027960
So why is the world so shit?
A lot of it comes down to time. If our time and lives wouldn't be limited we wouldn't necessarily seek so much luxury in our lives and be willing to trade so much of our lives for miniscule luxury.
It also comes down to technology because might makes right-- it's just that we've gotten to a point where few are so mighty that they can't be beaten and generally speaking exploitation can be done without murdering tens of thousands, unlike in the dark ages.

Currently we're not "there" yet. We got grandeour fantasies of idealized world and how things could get better but in reality they won't. We don't have the lifespain or the technology to be independent of each other and especially powerful people. In that sense we should accept that to a degree while making preventive manuvours to stop further exploitation-- lets not allow powerful people to push us back into the violence of past. But what we can do today is give everyone equal opportunity. Regardless of your wealth and background you should have the opportunity to advance yourself through education. And everyone should have access to healthcare.
Those two things should be free.

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>>729028062
Holy delusions/troll Batman

>>729028100
>why is the world so shit
because you think it is.

>>729026759
Shit makes me kek.
>be me
>be authoritarian soci-I mean uh, communist
>have revolution in 1917
>many die
>take power
>decide to fuck over Marxist principles and become autocratic
>purge people like romans and religions
>death camps
>send huge waves to death in WWII
>continue to kill torture and starve people until 1991
>be a different me
>be chink authoritarian soci-I mean uh, communist
>change M-L think around to suit my chink culture to buy into it
>take power
>fuck over Marxist principles, autocrat imminent
>kill many people because I can
>I die but my legacy lives on with human rights violations happening every year and persecuting falun gong
>be different me
>be spaniard
>be a legit communist
>end up in a bloody civil war
>lose
>be different me
>be actual Ukrainian Communist
>get assblasted by USSR
>be me
>be spic
>be authoritarian soci-I mean uh, communist
>have violent revolution
>fuck Marx, obtain power
>continue to starve the people long after I'm gone
>be me
>be Korean
>Be the not at all power hungry leftist
>fuck Marx
>tfw grankids abandoned Marxism-Leninism to worship me as a god while they kill their own people
This list could still go on, but Capitalism kills shitloads.

>>729028062
That's the definition of a leech. And if you think your daddy could ever be proud of a pathetic leech when he accomplished so much, you don;t understand parenting.

>>729028062
Still a leech. Your parents make you a leech then.

K Marx was a genious, who wrote on a number of subjects. Economics (socialism) was such a subject.
He was so brilliant, he died without enough wealth to have a funeral. His lifelong friend F Engels paid for his burial and marker.
I will believe someone other than an unconditional failure.

>>729028019
>should have picked another career
>only women and queers do that
Being a NEET rots your brain huh?

>>729028153
nope, a leech is unwanted.

my dad will be proud when i'm in congress and you arent.

>>729028064
Go become rich and come back and tell me that.

>>729028213
dude, nursing is a woman's job, 80% of nurses are women. end of discussion.

>>729027401
Hey guy, it's not even "old" money yet but wanna see a perfect example? Follow this discussion. Kek.

>>729027328

>>729028214
I'm sure he would be, but your dumbass will never accomplish anything if you haven't already with the resources you have.

>>729023953
Federal Reserve isnt the government. Theyre a private company that loans the government money.