Can anyone tell me why the AR-15 is not the perfect home def

Because shotguns exist.
I'd rather have an ar-15 to go to battle but if i'm strictly defending my home from assailants i'd take a shotgun over an ar-15 any day of the week

>>727107716
This. For close quarters home defense I would take my shotgun, or even my handgun over my AR-15.

>>727107716

Shotguns are definitely a fine home defense weapon.

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This shotgun

>>727107530
It's an awful home defense weapon.

LOL that's hysterical

i bet those kids won't be robbing houses any more

>>727107716
This guy. A 12ga won't go through 3 walls and kill someone you didn't intend to.

>>727107530
You'll shoot thru your neighbors houses.

I mean I don't really think it matters what gun you're using if you're just gonna use it to mow down unarmed kids who are probably just out of luck and don't think they have any other choice.
But whatever, muh justice.

>>727107716
>>727108040
>>727108195

They both have their pros and cons. Shotguns hold less rounds, but can be more lethal at closer ranges.

>>727107530
I'm 51. I got my first gun, a .22, when I was 5. I've gotten many guns over the years and still have them all. The 22 is the best all purpose gun, period. If the world ended tomorrow and I could only choose one gun it would absolutely be the 22. It can kill a person just as quickly as any gun in existence. Or if you don't want to kill them and just want to stop them, you can do that too. You're talking a close range situation so absolutely I would use the 22 for that job

oklahoma has a pretty good (lack of) gun laws

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gun_laws_in_Oklahoma

AR-15 is NOT the perfect home defense weapon. Reasons why include over penetration, difficulty maneuvering full size in tight confines, over priced for just a home defense weapon. Better off going with a handgun or pistol grip shotgun for strictly home defense....

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>>727107530

Because I own one of these.

Shotguns are always better for home defense. And while most people's shotguns are breach-loaded double-barreled and get two shots or at most, a pump-action with an eight or so shell capacity, I'm laughing and pumping out buckshot from a twenty shell drum, semi-auto.

>>727108378

The 5.56 round doesn't over penetrate either, that is why it is the choice for tactical teams such as SWAT. It loses almost all of its energy upon impact.

why shoot them when you can heem them?

>>727108538
Fuck off back to R e d d i t you feminist cunt

>>727108985
heem?

I have a glock 22 40. with basic home defense rounds that wont pierce through multiple walls and shit like that. A 12g shotgun wouldnt be a bad choice either. Get something easily to learn to shoot. Dont go buy an AR without some type of teaching of/with them

>>727108918

I want one of those....

>>727108104
What about a burgler alarm and decent locks?

Too much penetration.

>>727109114

I keep a legally registered SBR outfitted with a suppressor and night vision next to my bed at night. Just in case.

>>727109264
Thank you

>>727107530
Excessive penetration on drywall walls.

Velocity, but little mass

>>727109264

Already have all of that as well as security cameras.

>>727108918
Isn't that a bit overkill for home defense?
How did you even get it?

>>727108933
Would a hollow point be even better for home defense so you dont shoot ur kid thru the wall?

>>727107530
This happened shortly from where I live. Good on the kid, three less pieces of shit roaming the city.

>>727108825
u sure u can handle the pistol grip, rambo?

>>727109592

When it comes to safety, you can never overdo it.

>>727109100
>>>/sp/74916885

>>727109743
What about wearing too many safety goggles that the elsatic breaks and the plastic shatters into your eyes?

>>727108918

I miss BF3

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Ha Ill pass on the AR.

All I need is more sword.

>>727108336
This
and it got the job done. good job AR, good job

>>727109697
I have 223 hollowpoint ammo. Hollowpoint rounds are less likely to penetrate, which shows your knowledge. They mushroom and get larger which stops their velocity. Good try though.

>>727109175

There are two practical options for a high-quality clip-fed semi-auto civilian shotgun that's full-auto in its military form.

The one I have (and posted) is the Korean Daewoo USAS-12. The more common one is the American AA-12. I did my research, tried both out, and was more comfortable firing the USAS-12, so despite it being about $150 USD more expensive, that's the one I bought. Shotguns are not for everyone, and before you go out and just buy a shotgun, you've gotta do your homework. Read up on them, and try the model that you're considering buying at a range first.

>>727109982
Kinda had to swing that thing in a dark hallway

>>727108538
Fuck you

>>727109743
Well obviously, when your life is on the line, you can't overdo it no
But isn't a full auto 12 gauge a bit impractal?
Sorry, I'm not from burgerland, so I know jack shit about using firearms

>>727108538

Christ, the liberalism.

There is no "luck". Life is what you make of it.

If they wanted things, they could get a JOB and fucking pay for it themselves.

Good riddance to these pieces of shit.

>>727110037

Did you not read what the dude said you fuckin sperg?

>>727107530

Dey dindu nuffin. Dey jus' gettin' money for dey church.

>>727109592

It's the civilian model, which is semi-auto only, and can be bought as long as you have a gun license. The military model of the USAS-12 is full auto, and is illegal to own (to the extent of my knowledge).

It was really expensive, though, but a pleasure to use.

>>727108918
Way too heavy and big for home defense purposes, but its recoil dampening system makes the follow-up shot easier.

>>727107530
it's ok for home defense. just remember, you might be justified shooting a home invader/intruder, but you're responsible for collateral damage and are subject to lawsuits for said damage.

want to defend your home? use a 12 guage with number 8 bird shot in the chamber followed by 000 buckshot

Suppressed AR-15 in .300 Blackout is love.

>>727110120

Mine is a civilian model, which is built as a semi-auto version. The military model, which is illegal to own where I live, is full-auto.

>>727107530
Pretty short clip, usually other guns are bigger.

>>727110037
I really hope this is bait.

>>727110095
I agree but it got the job done. Break in on me and you'll be looking at the business end of a Glock 19.

>>727110477
>>727110367
Ah, that makes sense. thanks for clearing that up
Yeah, a semi-auto 12 gauge seems like something you'd want for home defense

>>727110415

In most circumstances, yes, it would be too big, but I live out in the woods, so I have a lot of open space, and my house is big and kind of open. I don't really have any hallways or tight corners, so I can just kind of sweep the barrel from side to side and cover a wide area.

>>727110444

This. And nice trips.

>>727110501
>doesnt know ar's started life with a 20 round clips
>calls magazines 'clips'

>>727110691
Why? What he said is spot on

>>727110765

Right, and the beautiful part is the twenty-shell drum. I can go a lot longer than most shotguns can without having to reload, and fire basically as fast as I need to just by pulling the trigger. The only real downside is that the drums are big and clunky, so it's a bit excessive to carry more than one extra drum.

Then again, nobody really is dumb enough to still be around after you've emptied forty loads of buckshot in their general direction. They're either dead, severely injured, or have fled.

>>727110757
Gets the job done indeed. It is obviously effective, because if it wasn't, we wouldn't be reading that article right now.

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>>727107530
Home defense = SHOTGUN > AR

Nothing is more intimidating than the ubiquitous sound of a shotgun being cocked. Kinda gets yer attention quick.

>>727110796
How about the russian Saigas and VEPRs-12? Although the RPK-based receiver ensures reliability and a simpler mechanism to maintain, are their recoils hard to get used to?

>>727108720
>The 22 is the best all purpose gun, period
This is now a squirrel hunting thread.

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Because a nasty .308 is wayyyyyy more fun.

>>727111428
It took me atleast 3 shots to kill a squirrel with a .22 before

>>727111428
Not him but a .22 will fuck your day right up

>>727107530
KILLING PEOPLE IS FUN!

>>727111644
Shot placement is key

None of you faggots would have the balls to pull the trigger and take a life. You own guns and think you're badasses but I bet you hide if you see a stranger on your block. If someone broke into your house you'd probably just wind up trying to blow them.

>>727111644
you're a lousy shot

>>727107530
To be real, it is god-tier gun tho
10/10 would definitely stick dick in trigger hole

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>>727108720
>.22 for self/home defense
no.
the 22 is not made for self-defense or home defense. it's a target shooting round, or if anything, hunting small game.
>. It can kill a person just as quickly as any gun in existence

a study reported that 35% of threats did not stop when shot by a .22, the highest rate compared to other calibers.
https://www.buckeyefirearms.org/handgun-stopping-power

another issue with the .22 is that it frequently travels through whatever mass it hits. the chance of collateral damage skyrockets when using a .22

9mm imo is the best choice for CC, and just fine for home defense.

and by the way, your objective is not to kill an intruder or attacker. It sounds like you have not taken a CDL/CC class and I'd advise you to do so.

>>727111682
Guns kill by causing blood loss. The .22LR round is capable of killing but you could just as easily put 10 .22 rounds into an adult without knocking them down.
Anybody who says otherwise doesn't understand ballistics.

>>727111938
it's a cheap knock off of a military weapon. KYS

>>727111549

why just kill the burglars, when you could accidentally kill your family and neighbors too??

>>727107530
> broke into a house while people were there
> wore masks

Yeah.... they weren't 3 strangers who broke in to 'burglarize' anything. My money says the shooter knew at least one of the three and probably owed him money

>>727111804
I wouldn't say that but if it comes down to taking some evil mofo out, I will.

>>727111860
funniest post ever. Surprise me and find out

>>727107530
>bored /k/ newfag detected

>>727112179

well his debt is clear now

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I own ARs but I prefer handgun for home defense, 19+1 is more than enough

>>727112076

This faggot has never heard of hydrostatic shock

I have teen aged daughters at home and I choose a shot gun for home self defense.
In the middle of the night, dark, confusing, scared - I don't want them to have to aim or worry about shot placement. I want them to aim in a general direction and KA-BOOM.

>>727112076
Depends

>>727108538
Ha funny. Freedom means you protect yourself. No freedom means cameras in and around your house surveilled 24/7 and you wait for the cops to save you while you get the shit beaten out of you wife and kids raped. Those kids deserved to die entering a mans house with ill intent. People need to wake up and get back into reality.

Give me a FN FAL with a Glock 19 or a FN P90 with a Beretta M9 all day.

/thread

>>727112316

You going to provide your address?

>>727112375
>threaded barrel
>no muzzle device
I will never understand this.

>>727112076
>Watch this blood loss kill this donkey
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_gVGrzb7En0

>>727112096
Don't know shit about guns, you raging /k/fag

>>727112182
Sarcasm

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>>727112665
not going to leave the suppressor on it 24/7 lol

>>727112508
I have no sympathy for someone that breaks into someone's home and gets blown away. Fuck those fucks

>>727112665
i just got my suppressor. it literally took a year before all legal docs were in order before i could take possession of said suppressor.

>>727109264
You mean live in fear? It should be the robbers living in fear not the homeowner. People need to be deterred entering a home other than their own

>>727112638
You want to die?

>>727109504
Live in fear cuck

>>727112714
no. no you don't.

It really depends on the shooter.
A lot of people talk about shotguns as better with home defense. I agree - but only if you can't shoot (which isn't a bad thing, just an honest statement).
An AR 15 with a shorter barrel, lighter loads, specific rounds (all not to blast through walls) and a suppressor (only to save your ears) is a much better weapon - but only if you are a half-way decent shot and know the weapon.
Plus, it isnt a pump so you can continuously hit a target multiple times without much trouble.
Also, keep in mind, shotgun grouping on a normal, legal barrel isn't that great - like the size of a baseball/softball (considering the close-quarter distance of a home invader).
It isn't some huge sprayed, yard-wide blast that you may think.
Again - if you know guns and are an okay shot, the AR 15 with specific (but not insane gun-nut) upgrades is better.
But if you're a normal Joe, the shotgun works better.

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I keep this one next to my bed. It's a form 1 SBR But I do have shotguns, suppressed handguns and other firearms available if I need them.

>>727112702
Now find us a video of a .22LR doing that.

>>727112444
Chekd

> In the middle of the night, dark, confusing, scared

While you raise a good point, no one with half a brain breaks into a house at night. Outside sheds and shit, yeah, but not houses unless they are brain-dead teens or no-hoper druggies.

Break ins in the day are more common and a shitload easier. Its hard work quietly pinching a television while holding a torch and trying to get all the cords while navigating around a strange house.

>>727112968

Sounds like you're stalling. Pussy

>>727109882
Real safety goggles don't shatter. Use em at work

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>>727107530
>fire AR
>miss robber
>round goes through the wall and shoots the dog

Pistols are the best for low level home invasions. AR's are for militia purposes. If you want a shotgun just to scare folks away go for it, a 9mm or .22 pistol is the best for home invasions.

>>727112638
Because that's how you die

>>727107716
Yep...I concurred. 12ga loaded with #4 to reduce risk of over penetration whilst still remaining a viable man stopper. Loaded alternately with slugs.

If my SG isn't nearby, I've got my HiPoint 4095 alternately loaded with Barnes Tac XPD 140gr hps and Winchester 180gr fmjs. I keep my Zastava m88a in my bed stand too.

>>727113000
checked..... will be starting my form 1 soon

>>727112892
To protect your snow flake ears?

>>727112978
so many contradictions in this post

>>727112977
Of course I don't know anything about guns.
Who the fuck cares about having a certain type of rifle for self-defense? It's an assault rifle, that's all you need to know, you raging /k/fag.

>>727113055
DM me

>>727113143

Still waiting pussy.

>>727107530
Is this a loli or real a girl http://www.neetpussy.com

>>727113038
the first thing taught when dealing with a home break in during the middle of the night:

>wake up

>>727110073
Don't forget about the saiga or vepr in 12 gauge. They are also good options.

>>727113025
Not enough energy in an LR to deliver it(Unless you're hunting rabbits etc), I agree with the second portion of your argument, just not the first - the right pill in the right spot will kill with shock and trauma, blood loss generally means you chose your pill or placed it poorly and you have to find your wounded animal.

>>727113166
huh?

>>727113206
Not really contradictions per say, more just:
>if you don't shoot regularly and want a gun to protect, but collect dust - shotgun
>if you want to learn about guns, hit the range regularly, and know how to shoot - AR15.

>>727113038
Yeah, I had a day break in, was out the back with my kids didn't even know till I went looking for my phone.

>>727113278
> Assault rifle
Holy fucking kek. Did you just say that seriously?

>>727107530
I like the ak better for home defense because it hits harder and plate armor isn't in the equation during a home invasion from criminals. AR-15 is fine, shotgun is fine, 9mm is fine, .357 revolver is fine. Just have a gun and know how to use it.

>>727113395

Fair enough.

The reason I left them out is that when I did my research, the two I extensively tried and tested were the AA-12 and the USAS-12. I looked at the Saiga-12, but I decided against it before I even picked it up, never got to the point of actually trying it in a range.

>>727113278
topic is home defense.

you're responsible for damage that occurs beyond your target.

study guns moar.

>>727113166
oh ffs......
.45 gun shot unprotected is ~160 db, impulse sound (a sound occurring for ~1 second) over 140 db immediately damages the ear

Ear muffs reduce sound by ~ 30-40 db which is ~ 120 db, repeated exposure to sounds >85 decibels damage your hearing

OSHA limits exposure to 112 db to ~minute, not much time to practice shooting.

Suppressors reduce the sound to ~125-132 db about the sound of a jackhammer.

Add in the 30-40 db protection of shooting ear muffs and you are now hearing safe.

So a suppressed handgun still being as loud as a jackhammer is too fucking quiet for you to let us protect out hearing?

Thats not to mention noone.... hunts with ear pro... thats seriously dangerous, so each gunshot comes with immediate damage sans suppressor.

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>>727113278
> It's an assault rifle

>>727112179
Wearing masks means you're ready to die for something when you're not robbing a bank and smiling at the cameras

Because a shotgun can chuck 9 .30 cal bullets down a hallway in one shot.

Seriously though a shotgun is a far superior home defense weapon simply due to the ease of aim and variety in ammo. Where as your AR can easily shoot through a couple walls after hitting someone at close range thus endangering family or friends hiding in another room... I say this as a guy who has a converted SAIGA that I would use for home defense if I had to. Once I have some spare money floating around I intend to score a pump shotgun. There are some good models out there you can get for new for under 200 bucks.

>>727113312
There are less painful ways of killing one's self. Like I said before, shot placement. I can alter that to not only kill you, but kill you slow and painful. Just sayin cunt

>>727113166
we use suppressors because we don't want to wake up our neighbors or other people in the house if we have to kill some intruders. Oh, and it protects our hearing as well.

>>727113646
you goofed. The US government buys Russian Saigas. The last thing we want to do is buy guns from Russia but they know it's the best so they buy it.

>>727107716
>I'd rather have an ar-15 to go to battle

With whom? If you're in a rebellion against a trained military like this militia fantasy of a US uprising, I'd say a shotgun is your best hope in that case as well. Your opponent is using assault rifles, so get them to play a different game with improper equipment.

>>727113166
Why would ranges force you to wear ear protection?
There's a reason the military spends millions on ear protection tech for their soldiers - because live fire fucking sucks.
Suppressors help out - don't be a fag.

>>727113687
holy shit i never seen so much disinformation
someone plays way too much cod

>>727107530
How bad of an aim do you have that you need this instead of a handgun and alots of time on a shooting range?

>>727112508
Not everyone is a serial rapist. Most of the people who break into houses don't want to fuck with anyone, they'll gtfo at the first sign of trouble. I don't see the point in killing some poor fuck, just scare them off and they'll never fuck with you again. Also have you ever heard of alarms and locks?

>>727113803

Still waiting

>>727112856
Nope. Should be none givin pulling some dirty shit like that.

ITT: people who have no fucking idea about guns and how loud they are. You neckbearded faggots would go deaf the instant you fired an AR or a shotgun off inside your house. Dumb niggers

>>727113687
Works ok with active earpro but yeah nobody I know uses passive earpro.

>>727108378
neither will AR15 you dumb shit. The 9mm commonly used in pistols is known for this, the 5.56 is a much better round for the reason that it does not.

>>727108336
Well, they died so...

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>>727107530
>Man reportedly kills three teens
Hopefully they all had families too who loved them and will really miss them.

I'm sorry but I own absolutely nothing that I am willing to murder anyone else over. Probably not even my own life.

>inb4 gun hatin' librul

Pic related. I support the 2nd Amendment, and exercise that right. I still have no desire to take the life of another human being over shitty material possessions. Threaten someone I love though, and that is a different matter. I would still feel horrible if it came to that though, and I find people who are seemingly anxious for the chance to blow someone's brains out to protect their collection of cheap mass produced bullshit to be utterly sickening. I get it. You are justified to protect your property and loved ones, with deadly force if it comes down to it. That's one thing, but it's another to sit around fantasizing about getting the "opportunity" to. It's not something you should hope will happen. It's not an achievement, nor is it anything to be proud of if it does happen.

>>727113907
Come find me

>>727113879
Misinformation, he's right though.

>>727108538

>getaway driver
>armed with deadly weapons (they wouldn't have them if they didn't intend to use them)
>wearing ski masks
>breaks into a house, not a retail store

>>727114022
>absolutely nothing that I am willing to murder anyone else over

You clearly have no idea how frequently home robberies end in assault or murder of the homeowner

>>727113384
True dat...
I stayed a friend's house and fucking near got brained by a baseball bat while raiding the fridge cos the dude was half asleep and thought I was making off with his milk or some shit.

>>727113544
Yeah... that's how it goes. I went away for a week (to the house where I almost got brained) and when I came back most of my furniture was missing. 3 guys showed up with a moving van one day and told the neighbours I'd arranged to put some stuff into storage.

>>727114026

That's what I thought. Listen bud I'm sure you have school in the morning so quit talking tough. Go jerk off to a trap thread, look over your homework and go to bed.

>>727113893
HTF do you know what someone who breaks into your house wants, had a mate who was beaten unconscious in his bed with a bat because he woke up and his missus was hit but left conscious.

>>727108825
No, you're a fucking idiot. 9mm and .40 over-penetrate. The .223/5.56 bullets do not. AR-15 can be sold in pistol config or short-barrel with a tax stamp, both are very easy to move around. Also, it is on level with pricing for a quality pistol. Yes, a pump shotgun that only holds 4 rounds can be bought cheaper.

>>727113610
Truth.

>>727107530
because AKs exist.

>>727113888
why take more tylenol when you can just take one aleve?

>>727113278

Even liberals are packing assault rifles now:

https://www.liveleak.com/view?i=a3d_1490515541&comments=1

>>727113943
yeah u got a point on active earpro but still not perfect

>>727114261
Come and get one in the yarbbles that is, if you have any yarbbles. You stupid cunt

>>727112913

An alarm causes fear, especially if the alarm is designed to be a somewhat-concealed kind that on confirmed trigger marks the burgler with some deep-staining dye that won't wash off their hand for a good 2 weeks.

No reason your passive defense can't have the element of intimidation as well.

And if that's not enough, keep a shotgun locked. Kids can't play with a shotgun as easily, but it's been done. Handguns, however, are the cause of almost all accidental shootings, which make up almost all home shootings.

>>727114518
Nope, better than reeeeeeeeeeee though

>>727112056

You're a fucking retard. 9mm is the #1 round that over-penetrates in homes.

>>727114665
true that anon

>>727113675
Exactly this.
It's great to think that you "took out the attacker," but the dead baby in the next apartment/wife hiding in the next room/Neighbor across the street that is hit by your retarded shooting is on you.

>>727114691
Shot placement
again

>>727113879
He's right. Have you ever been to a range?>>727113888

>>727114526

You've already been exposed as a pussy junior. Time to try a new thread

because there are German Shepherds and intrusion alarms

>>727114835
if you're relying on that, shot placement is much easier with a short ar15. noob.

>>727113733

and according to that article those perpetrators were armed with knives and brass knuckles.

>>727112913
How is setting up an alarm living in fear? If anything I'd be a lot more scared having to fend for myself with a gun than just let an alarm do the deterring for me.

(OP) is a fucking commie

>>727114979
kill all trick or treaters. got it.

>>727114509
yeah guns have won the culture war. They are cool and gun and enjoyable by all. Except for jews for some reason.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hStj85CJewQ

>>727114022
I get where you're coming from but its better them than you right? Assuming they had a weapon of some sort.

>>727112978
>Plus, it isnt a pump

Plenty of shotguns are mag and auto-action, dumbass.

>>727112056
If I draw my weapon on someone, I'm going to make it the most deadly thing I can.

>>727113733
Seems odd to me. They were armed (kinda), masked, went in while everyone was home and probably not very quiet about it. Plus there's the 4th person who may or may not have been a getaway driver.

That's no normal home burglary method I've ever heard of. Home invasion yeah, but you don't pull that shit unless you know its going to be a big score.

>>727113879
those are actual facts he posted, you play too much cod.

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>>727114444

>>727114978
Wrong

>>727108378
actually heavy buckshot WILL go though more dry wall then say a .223, same goes for heavy handgun ammunition, such as .45acp, high speed ammunition relies on it's flight stability to maintain it's speed and it's ability to kill, heavy slow munitions rely on their mass to kill impacting even a single layer of drywall will deform a .223 and screw it's lfight stability to hell causing rapid deceleration, whereass a solid heavy lead ball doesn't give two shits about dry wall, will expend some energy to get though it and continue moving in the same direction without very little lessening of it's energy.

and in terms of ease of aiming, both shotguns and rifles have near teh exact same pointability and reflexive aiming.

all that said i would take a silenced handgun over any rifle or shotgun for home defense.

.22's are unreliable as fuck. Can't tell you how man bad rounds I've had that strike and don't go off. Wouldn't rely on it for HD especially in an autloader. In a double action wheel gun maybe since the next round cycles even if the previous doesn't go off.

Not to mention .22 has no knockdown power.

I've used CCI .22wmr Jacketed Hollow Points for ground hogs and that's a fucking bad round. Leaves a nasty exit wound. One shot is all you need.

>>727113893
they broke into that house, 4 guys, armed with knives and other weapons. they knew there were people in the house, they just didn't expect them to be armed. what did you think their plan was?

>>727107716
>This
Just the SOUND of someone chambering a shotgun shell is enough to make most people stop in their tracks. You might not even have to fire.
But if you do, in close quarters, they are devastating.
You don't have to be a good shot.
You don't have to worry about a stray bullet going through your wall, into your neighborhood.

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>>727114691
>You're a fucking retard
is it too early for another irony alert?
yes, that's why you use hollow point.

and it looks as if you completely disregarded the source i provided. if you can't help yourself, I'm not going to bother educating you.

>>727113816
>because we don't want to wake up our neighbors or other people in the house if we have to kill some intruders.

This is a joke, right?

If not, don't you think neighbors and sleepers would appreciate being informed that there are burglers in the area, or that bullets are flying around? Don't you think it would be useful for the police to be called?

>>727114022
You don't need guns, you have a home defense cat.

>>727115442
Stop buying rubbish .22 then, I agree with not using it for anything other than small game but I only get duds if I buy cyclone/555/Federal bricks etc, never had a CCI dud yet.

>>727115421
you've never fired a weapon. if you have, you didn't pay attention to the results

>>727115109
>Except for jews for some reason.

jews will start buying guns once the prices come down a little more

>>727115461
Doesn't even need to be a pump shotgun, just the sound of a semi sliding home is pretty decisive.

>>727107530


>tfw you don't use weaponized small pox as home defense

>spread around the house once, no reload times
>once you've survived it you're literally immune
>can never accidentally go off and injure you
>no cost for additional ammunition
>works 24/7 regardless of whether you're awake, asleep or even home
>convenient excuse to not host social events
>easily tell who has secretly been in your house due to fact they are dying from small pox

>>727115496
the other guy is correct that 9mm has the best barrier penetration. That's part of why law enforcement other agencies like it so much. hollowpoint won't penetrate studs or other solid material as well as a target round but it will still wizz through drywall. All you can really do is try not to miss your target and hope you didn't kill your neighbors. It's not exactly likely to happen though, more so in an apartment complex.

>>727109920

>teleports behind you

Why does any of this matter. If you're gonna shoot someone for being in your home just get a fucking gun and shoot the fucker, who cares what size hole you put in them.

>>727115082

it's not Halloween. and trick or treaters don't break open your back door and start attacking the occupants inside.

>>727111299

you need to work on your mathematical notation

>>727115949
I thought police used 9mm because less penetration = less chance of collateral damage.

>>727115949
9mm has the best barrier penetration of modern practical autoloading pistols i meant to say

>>727107530
Because shooting through your wall into your neighbors house and killing them puts you on for manslaughter. L2gun nub.

>>727108155
Have shot, is fun

>>727116122
Because you need to know what's behind the target before you pull the trigger

>>727116186
nah they use it because you can shoot through cars and doors and shit with it and get bad guys behind cover. They used it for various other reasons though, it's a good round. 9mm +p is a small bullet going fast so it pierces things better than .40 and .45 which go slower.

>>727107530
>61840
gotsta perrtect mahself

>>727116250
5.56 fragments, dumbass.

>>727115949
> best barrier penetration
Is this a joke?

>>727114164
>how frequently home robberies end in assault or murder of the homeowner

How about never (to the latter)?

U.S. Dept of Justice home invasions report from 2003 to 2007 annualized:
bjs.gov/content/pub/ascii/vdhb.txt

*An estimated 3.7 million burglaries occurred each year on average from 2003 to 2007.
*A household member was present in roughly 1 million burglaries and became victims of violent crimes in 266,560 burglaries (7% of all burglaries).
*Simple assault (15% or 155,400) was the most common form of violence when a resident was home and violence occurred.
*Robbery (7% 72,520) and rape (3% 31,080) were less likely to occur when a household member was present and violence occurred.
*Offenders were known to their victims in 65% or 2,405,000 of violent burglaries; offenders were strangers in 28%.
*Overall, 61% of offenders were unarmed when violence occurred during a burglary while a resident was present. About 12% 8,702 of all households violently burglarized while someone was home faced an offender armed with a firearm.
*Households residing in single family units and higher density structures of 10 or more units were least likely to be burglarized (8 per 1,000 households) while a household member was present.
*Serious injury accounted for 9% or 6, 527 people (0.17% of all burglaries) and minor injury accounted for 36% of injuries sustained by household members who were home and experienced violence during a completed burglary

>>727116331
A thief who clearly doesn't respect your home? Fuck them. Don't want to get shot? Don't break into someone's home.

>>727116400
Huh... there you go then.
I'll never laugh at the SWAT guy with the pissy little MP5 again.

>>727116553
i just meant between 9mm .40 and .45.

>>727107530
It's incredibly loud--especially indoors. Gonna want to buy a suppressor and sub-sonic for indoor encounters or after the first shot you're gonna be disorientated as fuck. Also the rounds have way too much penetrating power for domestic defense, too easy to kill your dog or someone shooting through your bedroom wall.

>>727116557
Cool. I'll ditch my gun and simply dial 911

>>727116727
Don't worry, they'll clean up the mess

>>727116640
You're preaching to the choir anon

>>727116839
News at 11

>>727116727
No one said you can't have your gun, it's just that maybe you should chill out and not blast holes into people who don't really need holes blasted in them.

>>727116480
home defense would likely be loaded with .223, anyways
fragments if you're lucky, those fuckers have crazy piercing power

>>727116987
Oh? Okay!
Good advice

>>727116839
nah nigga your family has to pay for that

>>727115551

>don't you think neighbors and sleepers would appreciate being informed that there are burglers in the area

My neighbors find out once they see the police arrive and remove the bodies of the dead burglars and give me a high-five for removing some violent criminals from the streets

>>727116987
If they didn't need holes blasted in them, maybe they should rethink their profession. It's like someone who free climbs complaining of a broken back.

>>727115816
i've fired numerous weapons, i own numerous weapons, including multiple shotguns, and rifles (yes including 2 ar-15)

the fact of the matter is this, any caliber that can reliably penetrate a chest cavity will penetrate most walls in your home, even 9mm can punch though brick and kill someone on the other side, that said, what i state is still true, lightweight high speed projectiles become SIGNIFICANTLY less powerful once they lose their high speed due to deformation, the same cannot be said for slow moving heavy projectiles.

>>727114518
active earpro can be had under $25. No excuse not to unless you're super poor.

Is fucking the dead body illegal?

>>727116987

Should we make them sandwiches instead and help them load our stuff into their trunks too?

>>727107530
Rifles in most indoor situations are terrible in general. You have so many situations where it is harder to aim in tight corners and slower to react with. A handgun is a better choice almost always for the stated purpose of home defense.

But nevermind me, enjoy your AR just like I enjoy mine.

>>727107530
Wouldn't a bullpup be better indoors?

>>727108155
Wow arent you a faggot

>>727117487
Its your house, you should be in a safe area where you know your lanes of fire. Clearing your house alone is a very poor idea, armed or not. PLEB

Heh, give me my 5-shot 1893 black powder s&w and lets see what happens, bud.
>burglar breaks into house
>all is silent
>suddenly feels the wind change behind his back, senses a human presence where there simply wasn't one to begin with
>"nothing personnel, partner"
>pulls back hammer
>unloads

>>727116331
Ok
Get a gun and bullets that don't hit people behind the person you're shooting.
Woah

HOME defense? you're a retarded nigger if you think im going to use a little 5.56 round to defend my house.

truly, the only weapon i keep loaded by me at all times is my grampa's M1Garand.

sure, its a little long for indoors, a little on the heavy side with all the wood and american steel, and it would blast through the attacker, the wall behind the attacker, the neighbor's wall, the neighbor, the neighbors car, out the neighbor's other wall, before finally stopping inside the power transformer at the end of the street knocking out power to the block, but it has already been used to kill nazis. And as far as IM concerned, only a bloodied weapon can be used to kill with, and my M1 has already been baptized in the best.

>>727117792
>nothing personnel, partner
>nothing personnel
>personnel

spellcheck fail

>>727117920
You think that's silly but it's something you have to take into account.

>>727117331
>i've fired numerous weapons,

doubtful, given what you've posted

>>727116727

Statistically, your chances of not dying from violent crime are far far higher that way, as much as you may not want to believe it. I mean, peace of mind sometimes transcends statistics, but if you have a family whom you care about, I don't think you should put your own ego above the facts.

Though again, a burglar alarm also works, and you can get some intimidating shit on top of it.

>>727118093
I have a 1911 from WW2, I'd like to think it also killed nazis in combat. it's an arsenal rebuild, so I assume it saw action.

>>727107530
have a slidefire mod ar15, shotgun and .40 s&w, prob using s&w when someone comes into apt, don't feel like accidentally shooting through walls

>>727118280
i have a Mauser K98 my grandfather gave me

>>727118153
I'm not seeing the issue here

>>727117331

You speak in your second paragraph like the first part (fully penetrating the chest cavity) is a good thing, and the second part (losing speed due to deformation) is a bad thing, which means you don't know shit.

>>727118228

A layered security plan is always needed. Alarm (doesn't need to be paid subscription and monitored), security cams, at least one large dog (attack cats are perfect as well but harder to train. imagine a trained 30lb cat attacking you...), guns, safe room if possible, reinforced door frames, security glass is super expensive but your regular windows won't do shit to keep someone out.

>>727118431
load the shotgun with birdshot and you won't hurt your neighbor but you'll pepper the hell out of an intruder. ask your nearest gun store for help on ammo selection.

>>727118228
Have you considered this figure may be skewed in the US because so many homeowners are armed, in Aus - where defending your home often incurs a similar penalty as committing the crime offensively would - 66% of all homicides occur inside the home of the victim

>>727118228
I have no family that lives with me and I highly doubt that an intruder will get nothing but a deadly surprise

>>727116557
CJ fag here
>*An estimated 3.7 million burglaries occurred each year on average from 2003 to 2007.
legal definition of a burglary is wide at best. It's called a 'wobbler' law.

>*A household member was present in roughly 1 million burglaries and became victims of violent crimes in 266,560 burglaries (7% of all burglaries).
okay, lets keep this in mind

>*Simple assault (15% or 155,400) was the most common form of violence when a resident was home and violence occurred.

so now we have the figures 7% and 15%.
let's do some basic math here

>3.7 million burglaries
>a household member was present in 266,560 burglaries
disregard that it's only 7% of all burglaries, because we aren't comparing assaults to total number of burglaries, rather the total number of burglaries where a household member was present.

big mistake on your part by misinterpreting what you just pasted.
>155,400 the number of instances where assault occurred
>155,400 of 266,560 is 58%
that means in 58% of situations where a household member had been present, they were assaulted.

>>727118153
newfag

>>727118496

>personnel
>personal

You not seeing the issue is the problem el oh el.

>>727117757
>Clearing your house alone is a very poor idea

That's why I don't let my family sleep in any home that isn't properly defended with three other men -- they share my bed at night while my wife and kids sleep in the room two doors down.

>>727118741
Doesn't even need to be birdshot, No4 won't go far but it'll fuck you up harder than birdshot.

>>727118840
lol*

>>727118477
I have an ottoman 1873 musket from my great grandfather. If there is an experience scarier than creeping through a dark house, and hearing the cap of gunpowder being screwed off, poured down a barrel, pressed down rapidly, a musket ball sliding down the barrel, also being pressed down, and the 9 lb hammer being pulled back then feel free to tell me, kid.

>>727118840
Hmmm not ringing any bells buddy, care to elaborate?

>>727119018
liar

>>727108694
No shotguns have low penetration and high stopping power, an ar-15 will go thru the person and hit something behind it, too powerful for home defense

I'm a britbong, I use a pointy stick to defend my family

>>727118228
I used to be involved in bad shit and did a lot of break-ins. This guy has the right of it.

If I thought someone was home or I'd get caught on camera or I couldn't hit an alarm before it went off, I didn't go in. If I heard movement while I was inside, I got out pretty damn quick... not from fear of getting shot, but because I didn't want a situation where I might hurt someone trying to escape.

I did carry a gun and back then I would have been stupid enough to use it if I felt I had to. So yeah... take from that what you will.

>>727119321
Depends on the loading faggot. 00 and slugs will over penetrate just as much. Hence why majority of PDs use #4 buck.

>>727118756
That really is some top notch math you just pulled off there anon.

>>727119018
The racking of a shotgun probably.

Just a guess though. Close range musket shot? If you hit them it will do damage, but unless you are planning on giving them a chance to hear the 3 minute process it takes to reload the thing again, something less retarded would probably be better.

>>727107530
I love the AR-15 I got the VTR Preditor it is truly a good home defence gun but we have Bushmaster (AR-15) and it is better for home defence because it's not heavy but after like 30 shots the barrel get to hot and the bullets are not as accurate unlike the VTR Wich I can shoot like 120 rounds till the barrel get that hot so they are great but I do not believe they are the best home defence gun I believe that a 12 gauge is better because one shot and one down and most likey that person won't be able to shoot back but with the .223 or .556 the bullet is traveling faster and is smaller so it would pass right through that person and so he could start shooting back at you after being shot

>>727119637
I read all that in one breath.
I nearly died.
I should probably quit smoking.

>>727119529
you just made my point, again.
simple math flies over ideologues.

>>727119325


Sorry to hear that, bt that's why you brits have the highest crime rate...

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/uknews/law-and-order/7922755/England-has-worse-crime-rate-than-the-US-says-Civitas-study.html

>>727119321
no dummy, the AR15 bullet will not continue on a straight path through your body, it may enter your side and exit your leg in a completely random direction. The russian 5.45 bullet is even better at this.

>>727119325
I thought you guys had official defensive sporks?

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>>727119518
>Hence why majority of PDs use #4 buck
They also like the bigger pattern. I've got mine loaded with #4 because I live in a flat and don't want to kill my neighbors.

>>727119627
I WANT that nigger to hear every second of the puppy that's about to take his life and fill my house with flammable powder being jacked off to completion before collapsing his sternum

>>727119627
Nothing says "here I am, come get me" like the sound of a sg being racked.

Enjoy your noisey meme. Make sure to keep your tac light on at all times too.

>>727118753
>I highly doubt

See, that's where statistics will help quell the doubt. When at most 100 people are killed, either homeowner or burgler, in home invasions per year out of 3.7 million, and when those cases are available to study from DOJ/FBI reviews to see what actually happened, and when every other case of an armed defender did not quite end up as a "deadly surprise" for whatever reason, it might be worth a look.

That's especially true for those of you speculating on what the "best" weapon for home defense is -- what has actually worked and has not in past cases.

>>727119325
pretty sure it's illegal to defend yourself?
had a friend that lived in Essex and had always been afraid to defend himself from chavs.

may of just been a pussy but I wouldn't underestimate the cognitive dissonance of law enforcement there.

>>727119873
Exactly! This ^ guy gets it!

>>727119341
You don't know the layout of my casa. I do.
Bang

>>727108825
Are you fucking retarded a AR-15 is perfect for home defence it manuver's great in tight spaces

>>727115496
>aliminum casings

Another fellow of the sun I see..

>>727120186
Nickel plated

>>727120186
those aren't aluminum pleb. most of the high end rounds have cases like that.

>>727108720
I was a juror in a murder trial. Defendant shot another man 6 times with a 22. 5 rounds penetrated his skin and migrated below the surface of his skin. The only way the defendant was able to kill the man was to put the gun against his head and fire the last found behind his ear. I would not use a 22 for home defense. I also wouldn't use my AR. Too dangerous for innocent people in the house. Shotgun is a visual, Audible and functionally superior defense weapon.

>>727119791
So because my opinions are different from yours I can't understand math? Cause I'm pretty sure I know how math works and you certainly didn't prove your math skills to be superior.

>>727120065
Good thing I have shish kabob skewers in my bed stand!

>>727120103
I hear you coming and can't find the door, I'm hunkered in the dark. Maybe you get me, maybe I get you. Maybe we get each other.

Also, where do you keep your gun? Unless its next to you or locked up, there's a really good chance I've already stolen it.

>>727107530
no stopping power. goes through walls.

>>727120361
>most of the high end rounds have cases like that.
Which is funny given that brass cases are superior but more expensive to produce.

>>727120186
>fellow of the sun
so crypted. i cannot compete with your sophistication.

>infers 'aliminum' casings
>actually nickel

oh

>>727119854
Shush! Don't let anyone know!

>>727120133

Not as much as literally any bullpup AR.

TAR-21, Steyr AUG, hell, a P90 is better in close quarters than an AR-15. and a P90 isn't an assault rifle.

>>727120186
lol good one. aluminum casing is pretty cool for target shooting though. Walmart was selling them 50 round for 10 bucks of federal aluminum last time i was there.

>>727120466
I can tell you that it most definitely is not locked up and I know I'll get you.

>>727109264
the locked doors are there to protect the criminal

>rather be beaten and robbed than shot
>rather be killed in a home invasion than have my wife and child killed

Statistics tell me I'm better off without a gun in the house.

>>727120666
sorry satan you can't trip me into shopping at walmart for cheap ammo.

>>727120664
Neither is an AR

>>727120466
>I hear you coming and can't find the door, I'm hunkered in the dark.

why not just leave?

>>727120391
lol, again missing the point.
my intentions were not to show off my math skills. any swinging dick can read the copy pasta you provided and come to the conclusion that it doesn't actually back your narrative.

the fact that I used simple math to show how you misinterpreted your own sources shows how incompetent you are.

you know why I structured it the way I did?
because I literally would have to spell it out for you anyway.

>mfw when you don't have a rebuttal other than 'nice math skills bro!'

just stop replying.

>>727120523
Those cases are coated brass, PLEB.

>>727110444
mine is also a stamped sbr

>>727107530
If you actually owned one you wouldn't post a pic from a catalog faggot.
Please kill yourself with fire.
(Because you don't own a gun to do it with.)

>>727118756

Oh my god you lack basic reading comprehension.

Literally the first two paragraphs, the only paragraphs you quoted (which leads me to believe it's the only paragraphs you read) say

>An estimated 3.7 million burglaries occurred each year on average from 2003 to 2007.
>A household member was present in roughly 1 million burglaries and became victims of violent crimes in 266,560 burglaries.

I didn't do the percentage of those of people who were home because I was 1) I was mostly quoting the summary from someone else and 2) Because it's dirt easy, yet you still managed to fuck it up.

The percentage of burglaries in which a household member was present and became a victim of a violent crime was 266,560/1,000,000 ~ 26.7%, so about 1/4.

Of those, 155,400 (58% of those violent crimes) cases were simple assault, i.e., anything from a misdemeanor to causing minor injury. Whatever else you want to calculate is left as an exercise to the non-dumbass reader.

>>727120846
That's the ideal and was my first choice of action.
But if I couldn't find an easy way out...

I got trapped once. Came in through the front door at night and thought no one was home. Homeowner's bedroom came off the front room and the back door had more chains on it than a 1980s punk rocker. Homeowner came out of the fucking bedroom and didn't see me.

Sat in the dark under the kitchen table for 2 hours while that fucker read a book in the front room. Couldn't get out until he fell asleep in the chair

>>727119220
>>727119627

This is the reason why some people shouldn't have guns.

>>727108538
No, let's allow this gang of masked intruders into my family home. I'll give them a tour while they're robbing my shit and raping my mother and sister. Then a thank you and farewell, hope their circumstances get better so they don't need to resort to home invasion anymore for a living.

Yeah, nah, I'd shoot them too. Whether they die is up to their 'luck'.

>>727120943
And you know nickel is significantly cheaper than brass right? added to the fact they reload like shit.

>>727120800
Hey now... WWB is decent ammo. FMJ, JHP, don't matter. It's cheap, maybe a little dirty, but goes bang every time.

I still prefer my 140gr Barnes tac xpd and Underwood 155gr XTP.

Need to try Underwoods Lehigh 140gr xtreme penetrator.

>>727121965
FMJ for plinking JHP for defense right?