>>726756204 Let's put it like this, i have had some spiritual experiences but are they just an illusion made up by the mind or is there more behind it? It has a lot of potential for me.. if i meditate i have like a natural xtc buzz... I just don't know if i'm going insane or there just might be something about it.. i've always been a different person and have felt that something is not right.. but since there is schizofrenia in my family i've always ignored it and i was very scientificly focussed, but since now i've got a whole different point of view on.. i'm really questioning this to myself
>>726756945 >are they just an illusion made up by the mind or is there more behind it Well we know that people can hallucinate and have induced feelings. We don't know about anything "more" that could be behind it.
>>726757234 And let's say i have some small clue's that not everything about it was a hallucination.. but that i might have misunderstood things... i'm not shure if my mind is just playing a game with me. I mean i would consider the risk going insane for finding out if nobody would tell me but if it's shure i would go insane then i would probably not take the risk
>>726757418 And yes it is, my psychiatrist and psychologist haven't been a really great help for me so i've had to figure things out all by myself, i've improved myself a lot but there shure as hell is a long way to go
>>726758182 My native language is not english and i've had a few beers if that might explain, i've got an IQ somewhere around 120 if that might be of use... i would not consider myself smart actually because i've made a lot of stupid decisions in the past
>>726758749 Is there any way to prove it actually is? And how so? I don't want to sound like a conspiracy theorist or anything but science is not exact science, with the look of modern science conciousness cannot be explained and would not even exist, but i know that i am concious.. or that also must be an illusion but it seems to me it would be rather strange
Spirituality is a broad concept, but I'll keep my response narrow. I think the more "inner peace" stuff could be very useful to people by helping them balance life and develop certain beneficial philosophies, but believing in horoscopes/gods/other external spiritual mumbo jumbo is kinda dumb.
Well there's no bullshit, nor truth inside your spirit. Your spirit is what you consciously make of it (the conscient) and what you unconsciously make of it (the inconscient).
When you understand these two entities, you can try to imagine them, make them live.
These two entities are always in conflict. It took me 6 years to finally reconcile them. How? Belief.
Not an ignorant belief, a conscious belief: "I know that what I am imagining might be not even real, but I still believe in it". This is real hard, but if I did it, you can also do it.
This was my way to enter my own spirituality, imagining the conscient and the unconscient as two different persons inside me. Don't ever follow meditation courses, religions or anything: you can't enter in your mind when you are following codes. Follow your own path.
But what would you do that? - You will know yourself You won't lie to yourself anymore, because your unconscious pulsions, desires and memories will all be clear. The unconscient will become a friend: you will ask him a question about yourself before bed, he will answer you in a dream.
- Improved memory
- Understand the process of inspiration in artistic activites, let the unconscient do what he wants to do. Be careful, don't let him be stronger than your conscient (what happens during pyschedelic journeys) because there is not point in that.
Anyway, don't forget that all that is beliefs. But one day, to understand spirituality, you must forget your sceptical edginess a little bit to enter this strange world.
>>726760030 Again, according to everything we currently understand about neurology, all evidence points to consciousness and spiritual experiences as being elaborate illusions based in the physical realm of the brain. There is nothing, absolutely nothing, that gives evidence to anything other than that. No, it cannot be "proven," but that in itself is not a reason to insert an explanation based on zero evidence.
>>726759862 >"I know that what I am imagining might be not even real, but I still believe in it". This is real hard, but if I did it, you can also do it. Why would I want to do this? >You won't lie to yourself anymore Except the whole exercise is based on a lie. >But one day, to understand spirituality, you must forget your sceptical edginess a little bit to enter this strange world. So you want me to abandon reality and embrace fantasy. No thanks.
>>726761482 Probably also an illusion made up by your mind i guess, i mean we are just animals so there is no reality only perspective.. as long as it influences me in a positive way i guess i'll be fine (still a little worried about the schizofrenia tho)
I am an agnostic. As a conscient human being who lives in society, I believe in what is and I am questionning myself on what is not.
At the same time, I understand that I am a spiritual human being who was unconscously given a perception of the world during my childhood. Thanks to my work, I don't stick to a single perception of the word, of life anymore.
But as you say, its all happening in my brain. That's what spirituality is all about. Know yourself. Be the one you want to be. Don't spread your beliefs and ways of thinking as the universal truth.
I mean that's why I am not really into religions, because it pushes a single way of thinking, a single perception. That's bullshit.
If you truly believe something is real, then it's real. I use to not believe in anything spiritual, today i can feel half of my chakras writhe on my back. If You've ever seen The movie The men who stare at goats, it's like that basically
Meh only partially about spirituiality but I really like Elon Musks theory on about us being in a simulation.
Cause if you think of it this way, if this life is mearly a game, and when you die the simulation ends. Technically whatever you do doesnt matter, and nothing really can dissapoint you. You do whatever you like and you do your best to try get a "high score" in life, whatever that is in your mind, then when you die you just get out. Its kinda like that rick and morty episode when he plays the virtual reality game.
I guess its kind of a different way of believing in heaven or an afterlife, but still not having to follow the way religious ppl live, idk
>>726763249 Yes it is, it's been proven with certain experiments... but to me it seems so unbelievable, but at the end.. if for some reason it is possible for the universe to exist wouldn't anything be possible?
If youre talking spirituality like spirits and the existence of souls then ??? = Opinion circlejerk
Closest i get to spirituality is I believe buddha was a guy who spent a lot of time trying to master his mind, and like a great master at anything, he learned some things the average guy couldnt. Tennis master learns new techniques how to better hit the ball, master of the mind understands how to better use the mind.
Mastering your mind > other things
Master your mind and then other things will be easy.
>>726764103 >Anything is possible Is it possible for A to be not A? >we LITERALLY have eternity to figure this out Except that you'll die, so no. There's also the potential problem of the heat death of the universe.
>>726764600 >our souls are immortal dude Why do you think souls exist? Why do you think souls are immortal? >Your too combative Being combative is how we separate truth from not truth. >closed off to the idea I'm open to ideas, but the entrance fee is high. >Karma is real as well The evidence suggests otherwise.
>>726764600 >but our souls are immortal dude. >Karma is real as well
You simply cannot state these things as facts. You don't know this. You don't possess this knowledge. Believe what you want - but admit it's a belief. Otherwise you're a liar or delusional, and neither trait is attractive.
>>726764600 I believe karma isnt something like, "uh oh you were mean to someone and karmas gonna get youuuu".
It's more like, theres a web of decisions that began at the beginning of humanity and before, where each choice led somehow to this moment. So every choice is connected to something, and every choice you make will affect the future, for better or worse.
>>726764820 I just know what I've experienced, if i try it and it doesn't work, then i stop doing it. I get a lot of my idea from ancient cultures, Egyptians, Sumerians. I research works attributed to Hermes Trismegistus.
>>726764600 I've had some mdma on my birthday about 250mg in crystals, but i stayed in it for like a week or so and then i could see proof of karma and stuff but as far as i know it might be an illusion
>>726765240 >I just know what I've experienced You know what you believe you've experienced. Human memory is actually notoriously unreliable and the human mind is prone to fallacious reasoning. >I get a lot of my idea from ancient cultures I get my ideas from modern culture, though a lot of those ideas can trace there roots back to ancient culture. Skeptics have been around for a long time.
>>726763474 It's not Ellon musk theory, that's as old as the sims 1.
And how is that concept helping you getting somewhere? Do you feel joy now knowing your life is a pointless motherfucking game? Do your pain feel less real? Will this theory prevent you from shitting all over yourself when you're close to die?
>>726765784 I do. I strive to believe that which is true and not believe that which is not true. Skepticism and methodologies based upon it (e.g. the scientific method) appear to be the best way to accomplish this.
>>726760361 how are you sure that neurologic activity is not the physical manifestation of consciousness and spiritual experiences?
consider minecraft. you're virtually in a world of blocks carving out a castle for yourself. now remove your hard drive from your computer and try shoving yourself into the space that occupies your hard drive so you can walk around your castle in physical reality.
>>726765895 Needing to live by values in order to check off the requirement for spiritual validation seems a lot more stressful than being realistic about what can/should be accomplished. Cut through the ego driven goals of spirituality and realize plainly what can be done in the present moment.
>>726766811 Everything is just energy. The air around you, your body, the porn you fap to, it's all just a sea of energy and your consciousness is just inhabiting the space where your body is in the physical
>>726767534 >Also, if we are all energy, then the idea of being connected with all things is verifiable fact Is it? What if we are just different "frequencies" of energy that exist in separate dimensions?
See, if you get to just make shit up, you can make up anything.
>>726767483 If it were to disprove chakras, no i would not change my beliefs. But i don't hold all my beliefs to the same degree. The more they prove to be true to me, the more and more i believe it's real
>>726768235 Advance warning: don't confuse colloquial theories with scientific theories
>we are all made up of the same stuff quantum entanglement yadayada Sure, but that doesn't address what we REALLY are, which is apparently conscious energy floating about. That conscious energy is actually completely separate.
>>726768142 waves of electrons propogating through space colliding with other waves creating intereference which in turn allows for large masses of energy to form which creates energy structures strong enough to have a physical presence on the macro scale, which in turn leads to planets n stuff.
>>726768698 >Or is it simply an electrical signal To put it simplistically, yes. >Is consciousness just a chemical signal? To put it simplistically, that seems probable given the available evidence, yes.
>>726768760 If we aren't in the same reality, how are you talking to me? Is solipsism true? Am I the only mind and you are all an illusion? If that's the case, then ending my reality would be the end for you.
>>726769270 Oops lol, but where does it say that protons are specific objects? Protons themselves are made up of smaller particles, those particles are too etc. Where does it disprove that they are not waves of energy themselves fundamentally?
>>726769936 I grant you that everything is energy on a quantum level - and yes, non-locality is a thing on the quantum level.
But there is NO evidence to suggest that this applies to the macro level, and NO evidence to suggest that consciousness is non-local. This is where you (and all the other Deepak Chopra mystical bullshit) arguments fall flat. Any physicist will tell you the same.
>>726769863 My best guess is that the illusion comes from the fact that we construct the reality within our minds, but we aren't aware of energy beyond our visual range. Eg. UV is not perceptible to our experience. We understand the tiny frequency waves of light by our eyes, we detect the physical properties of objects with our touch, and we can detect different molecules through our taste and smell, we detect pressure waves through our ears. The illusion is that we construct a solid reality based on those perceptions, whereas we actually exist in a universe of micro and macro scale, constantly in motion.
if youre one of those "science is my religion types" that needs everything to make sense rationally then its bullshit. otherwise it can have great value for you. personally i think it has a lot of value even though most of it doesn't make a lot of sense, but then again theres a lot shit that doesn't make sense so i don't mind.
>>726756104 I used to be on the edge about stuff like this, I considered myself agnostic for a long while, until I stumbled upon channels and what not. Channelers are basically people who act as mediums for various beings.
One who caught my attention is one called Bashar, channeled by Darryl Anka. At first, I was as skeptic of his teachings but as you listen to it more and more it starts to all piece together. Abraham Hicks, Seth, are a few others to name.
Now, basically it is as follows: We imagine god as one person, overwatching all of the universe. But their version of "god" is All That Is. All That Is is basically everything in creation that has ever existed, has existed, and will exist linearly speaking, because all things exist at once. You are All That Is experiencing itself from your point of view.
You also create your reality, totally, completely. %100. You do this with your beliefs and definitions about how your reality is, whether conscious or unconscious. He also goes into depth about parallel realities.
Parallel realities and the fact that everything is NOW. To them, there is no such thing as linear time. Every single moment is time is all now, but from a different point of view. Every moment is the same moment from a different perspective, everything already exists now. The entirety of existence is happening right now, you only experience a specific portion of it though because only a specific portion of it is relevant to you based on who you are now, who you define yourselves to be. Expand your definitions of yourself. If to you there is a so called past and future, then that's the effect you are creating, in the NOW.
>>726770802 Well my guess is based on objective fact, and it's in response to "explain this etc", so i attempted to explain. if you want to be dogmatic in your approach to understanding, be my guest. Do you actually refute my "guess"? I want some scientific rebuttals, otherwise why not ask your questions to proven scholars of a scientific community?
>>726771301 >if youre one of those "science is my religion types" that needs everything to make sense rationally then its bullshit.
Not true at all. I'm one of those types, and I find "spirituality" to have great value. I also believe that there is a logical, scientific explanation behind it. Sam Harris is famous for talking about this in terms of meditation and certain Buddhist practices, and he's an atheist neuroscientist.
>>726756104 To think that a live body and dead body are not different on so many levels is ignorance. If we were meat given life through chemical and electrical stimulus than frankenstein would be a true story.
>>726771556 Time is created by you shifting through billions of parallel realities, each second. That's how time is created. The analogy he uses is a film strip. Each picture, or reality, is it's own existing moment. When you play the strip one after the other in a fast motion, you get the illusion of movement. This is how change is created, and what determines which reality you shift to is based on your beliefs, thoughts, definitions, expectations.
He has 4 laws of creation and they areL
1. You exist 2. Everything is here/now 3. The all is the one, the one is the all 4. What you put out is what you get back (otherwise known as the law of attraction)
To #4, he says that physical reality is literally structuted like a mirror, and that whatever state of being you experience in the present determines what "future" you will experience.
Your physical external reality from the symbols that are reflective of your beliefs and emotions, or the state of being you choose in the now.
>>726771556 Example of creating your reality: "damn, i hate the sound of the train i live near". Instead of "i love trains yay". One person hates a sound based off of nothing, the other loves it based off autism. Either way a train is making sound waves that travel to your ear and your ego can interpret it a number of ways.
>>726771866 Whatever dude you either want to have interesting discussions or you don't. All info needs to be taken objectively so it shouldnt affect you that much, that you refuse to read based off a figure of speech.
>>726772360 Yeah, nothing in reality has any built in meaning. You determine the effect of whether it be positive or negative, and that will determine the experience you get. You may think this is all bullshit, but I know and many others know that this works for me. Listen to him if you want, don't if you don't want to. But my life has completely changed because I gave it a chance and I was open minded enough to take in these concepts.
>>726772756 id argue that point, you can subjectively interpret, yes, but you can also objectively analyze the information you subjectively interpreted. Eg. The apple looks grey, subjective interpretation based off of subjective experience. However objectively and with opinions from science you can say well apparently there are many spectrums of light, perhaps it isnt actually blue.
>>726773597 I mean grey . But yeah if you're subjective, colorblind, and the ruler of the world, you could force people to agree that it is indeed grey. So be objective, save the world, and have interesting debates with all types of people
>>726774336 True, but your subjective objectivity is closer to objectivity than subjective subjectivity? I wont argue with you, you are right, but I guess I am aiming for being as objective as possible, however impossible. The very idea that everything is subjective is the basis of understanding how to be objective, so subjectively i objectively agree with your objective subjectivity
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