Pascal's Wager states that it's smarter to bet that

>>725756602
>math

you haven't proven he exists, just tried to blackmail people with the thought of hell

>>725756602
>tl;dr
checkmate

>>725756602
So, now you're using math and logic to "prove" your magical sky-wizard exists?? That's not how it works

That's not how any of this works

>>725756805
how does blackmail lead one to believe something to be true? if all that is required a hollow and meaningless statement of faith, then the proposed god is stupid and ridiculous

>Math has conclusively proven that God exists

elaborate

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pascal's wager proves he was a pussy ass bitch

cmon son try something better next thread

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Come on OP you can do better than this

>>725756602
Please post some of that proof...

I think it makes more sense to compare it to alternative energy.

What if climate change is a hoax, and we end up making the world a better place for nothing?

What if god isn't real, and we live our lives as best we can, love and help each other, and don't cheat on our wives and shit all for nothing?

But eh, I believe in higher powers and lower powers and everything in between and nothing at all because mathematically they all 100% exist as well as don't. Organized religion is dumb, religion as philosophy to help guide yourself to understanding the nature of your consciousness, reality, and the universe is ingrained into our brains from evolution to be a useful tool.

>>725756602
So what are the odds you bet on the right god? Also.. wouldn't a god (any god) know when a person believes "just to be sure"?

There's some 3000 different deities mankind has come up with. So if we go for that, then there's 3001 options you to bet on. If you go by the odds, shouldn't you bet on a deity that has most loose requirements to get in a heaven or whatever waits in afterlife, than risk getting punished? If I present to you a belief that I just made up by an inspiration of ever spinning meatball deity that includes a belief that no-matter what you do, you will not get punished in afterlife. Wouldn't your reasoning for the "safest bet" compel you to believe in my god?

>>725756602
Pascal's wager states that the only two possibilities are Christianity and atheism. Pascal was lying

I believe there is a god but I do not believe they are benevolent or omnipotent. I simply believe they create to observe and nothing more

>>725757736
how did you come to this conclusion?

>>725757833
No benevelont God would allow some of the things that happen in this world(in my opinion) and omnipotence is impossible, it's a paradox

>>725758085
how did you determine there is even A god?

>>725757833
But I do believe it took something with immense power to start the universe and that's what I believe God is

OP is so full of shit his teeth are brown.

>>725758263
how did you determine there wasn't some non-God reason for the start of the universe?
how do you know the universe required a start?

>>725758225
So yeah I think it took an immensely powerful being to create the universe and since then he's just been watching

>>725758367
OP is so full of shit I can smell it from here

>>725756602
>Math proves the God exists.

Prove math exists, faggot.

Athiests: 1 Christians: 0

>>725758495
>>725758225
why I ask these questions is I don't see there being any EVIDENCE for these beliefs.

I don't know what happened. God or something akin to it could exist. They could not.

People need to be more comfortable with I dont know

>>725758464
Fuck it instead of my explanation I'm just going to believe in the writings of H.P Lovecraft, everything that exists,exists In the dreams of azathoth the blind idiot god

>>725756602
Pascal's Wager presumes a simple binary qustion of God or Not God and doesn't account for the fact that there are many other gods people believe in, many of which claim to be the only one and will punish those who choose incorrectly.

Pascal's Wager should instead be called Pascal's Horse Race, because if you choose the wrong one, you lose.

This is /b/, there is no God here.

>>725758713
I wasn't trying to be a prick, but I just ask the basic rationalist question:

What do you believe and why do you think you believe it to be true?

Because the chance that the god that might exist is the one from your religion is astronomically small.

>>725756602
All I know is every atheist I've ever met has been a fat miserable piece of shit. It tells me everything I need to know about a person who has no kind of moral compass or grounding agent in their lives.

>Not factoring every other religion into that wager

To honestly believe that horse shit, you've got to be retarded. You can do better, OP.

>>725756602
God or no God, whatever. If you need the threat of punishment or the bribe of a reward to be a good person, then you are not a good person. Of course being on /b/ probably doesn't make me a good person, so fuck me.

>>725757736
You can call that "God" if you want to, but that's not what anyone understands God to mean. A power that got the ball rolling then peaced out forever is not inconsistent with atheism, because it doesn't have any of the attributes religions ascribe to their Gods. When people like you say they believe in a God instead of just calling yourself atheist, it lends power to the religious idiots because it hides our numbers. Stop being a pussy and call yourself what you are.

>>725759008
pokemon and everything in its universe is literally made up dude

>>725758770
>Pascal's Wager should instead be called Pascal's Horse Race, because if you choose the wrong one, you lose.

That would be a crowded horse race, considering the infinite number of horses competing.

>>725758868
I get you weren't trying to be nasty but I just believe it because I do think they must have been something to start the universe, all of this couldn't have just come from nothing and I don't believe that any of the depictions of gods I've read about are true they are usually described as benevelont which clearly isn't true and omnipotent which is actually impossible to me it makes sense for it to just be a very powerful being who watches over the universe and isn't involved

>>725758770
fact.

although if you think about it, by choosing atheism you're guaranteed to piss off whatever god does exist. we know the christian god gets all fire and brimstone if you don't believe in him, even if you don't back another horse.

so really we should just find the god that has the scariest lose scenario and go with them.

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>>725759025
is being fat immoral? I know its stupid due to health consequences but at best its some form of self-harm or suicide.

I guess you could make the argument from a drain on medical resources, causing increased insurance rates for healthy people who don't get fat.

Given the mind-boggling number of possible gods, it's obviously best to remain uncommitted and minimize the wrath of the correct one.

>>725756602

I don't believe in free will. There's only complete randomness and determinism, and I'm not too sure about the randomness. That makes the question of whether or not there is a "god", completely meaningless, regardless of the answer.

>>725759025
I'm in decent shape, make 90k, and have a wife with a six pack and D cups. I'm also happy and not fucking dumb, so I accept the fact that there is no God. So fuck you.

We should all just believe in the pantheon of gods created by Lovecraft

>>725757488
Well how many of those God's are just? It would be just to forgive a person for following the religion they were born into without proving you are the God to follow wouldn't it?

>>725759274
well it could have all come from nothing.

i just think accepting a proposition for no good reason could lead to other decisions you could get swindled over.

Its highly doubtful a belief in a god that you suggest would lead to any real bad consequences, but it just doesn't seem to be a good idea.

>>725756602
But yet, you do not explain why Niggers tongue my anus.

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>>725758847
Yes there is... - Satan -

>>725759589
And it's misleading as fuck. A creation force that made shit then did nothing else is not inconsistent with atheism. That's not a God.

>>725756602
Lol, you could apply Pascal's wager to any deity with punishment for disobedience and come to a similar conclusion try again faggot.

>>725759589
The god I propose exists just makes the most sense to me, I know I could be wrong but it's just what I think is right just like every other religion who have no proof of their good but believe in them anyway

>>725759850
Oh yeah, I was there.

>>725759801
atheism is just a non belief in proposed gods due to no convincing evidence.

not claiming there are no gods. there very well maybe.

atheism doesn't really make claims, it just disbelieves when people say there are gods or a god.

>>725756602
Because we have no idea whether or not the one god you choose to believe in as a result of the wager is the right one. Mathematically, with that info in mind, it is safer not to choose one god than it is to stay neutral and choose none.

Pascal was too heavily Christianized to think such things.

>>725756602
heres a refutation to pascals wager: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NKzqQ-IVxGs

show me the proof then.

>>725759878
You're just an atheist who is scared of the label. Nut up.

>>725760127
And you're just a twat who thinks he's a big man on the internet. Fuck off

>>725756602
what if the consequences of choosing the wrong god are worse than choosing none?

maths is funny shit

>>725756602
Bentvelsen's wager is that if there is an almighty god he does not care about what name you call him as long as you follow the golden rule.
>Thou shalt not covet

Atheism usually doesn't make claims saying gods don't exist. That usually could be described as anti-theism.

Gods could exist, it just doesn't make sense to believe in something intangible.

If Gods were even somewhere close to as reliable in fantasy worlds where clerics could directly pray for healing or supernatural effects, the actual notion of atheism or anti-theism would be silly.

>>725758647
sheep

>>725760038
Well, there's atheism the religion, held by the "debate me" crowd on the internet and some real life fags. That type definitely makes claims, but they're just the loud minority.


And then there's atheism the label, used by theists as a slur against everyone who doesn't believe in their fantasies. This is all the sane normal people, and they never use that label themselves.

>>725756602
Pascal can go fuck himself

>>725760271
that's not accurate. besides people have differing ideas of what every damn word means.

try having a convo with someone about their terms instead of making claims about what they believe.

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>>725759274

>>725760210
We need people like you to admit what you are so that the religious imbeciles see the strength of our numbers. Not gonna fuck off until people who don't believe in interactive dieties all call ourselves what the world knows we are. ATHEIST

>>725756602
What do you think God would rather hear, if he truly did exist, before bestowing judgement upon a departed? That one had at the very last moment of life, cashed in their chips and tried to swindle an eternity of happiness in their last breath by prasing Him? Or honesty from one that saw no proof of His existence, but lived a life in service of human solidarity?

For those who ain't smart: if He exists, God dont want no huxters. He just wants good people.

>>725760480
well, that's just too broad of a statement. i don't think people are stupid or get all butthurt over theists, but I do consider myself an atheist.

but labels largely suck because of what you pointed out. people cannot have a consistent measure of most words. makes dialogues really hard.

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>>725760519

>>725760271
Is this kind of asinine straw man really all theists can come up with to counter criticism of their bullshit beliefs?

>>725760480
Atheism is not a religion, it's the lack of belief in gods. A (without) theism (belief in gods). Agnostics are atheists. Anti- theists are atheists. They don't affirmatively believe in Gods.

>>725760975
But we can see his point? I mean words are largely subjective to most people. We have to constantly define terms to get anywhere.

Getting stuck to a word just seems worthless.

Even in the Garden of Eden, Adam and Eve ate. God told them they could eat of any plant or tree, except for the Tree of the Knowledge of Good and Evil. Even before the Fall, life only existed through killing other life.

Whatever intelligence, if any, is responsible for the creation of this world, it is diseased. This world with its unavoidable contests for domination and survival, and therefore unavoidable suffering is either an extremely unfortunate, random occurrence, or it is a manifestation of a bitter, jealous, fearful, greedy, ego-driven, cruel, lustful and perverse mind.

>>725760975
Atheism is absolutely a form of religion, at least in the sense as Communism is a form of religion. They may not believe in gods, but they adopt their own versions of all the other basic concepts, including fanaticism, rituals, prosletyzation, scorning the unbelievers, and so on.

Now, most people labeled as atheists just don't believe in the theist crap. But the hardcore fanatics are basically like Satanists are to Christianity.

>>725761138
It's the least subjective English word to describe lack of belief in gods. Secular, humanist, agnostic, skeptic, etc. are all less widely understood. Strength in numbers requires a label that is known.

>>725760971
Atheist, here. I sincerely believe that if you get the right amount of energy together and explode it according to some very, very precisely-defined rules, it will eventually become self-aware and start worshiping thousands of different Gods it has imagined.

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>>725760592
Do not throw pearls to jews.

>>725761501
LOL no. Based on the available evidence, any theism is insanely radical. Atheism is not a religion, it's not even a belief. It's the overwhelmingly most probable outcome when applying reason to the known facts.

>>725756992
Mathematically speaking, you will hit an apex in which creation has no source, therefore the only logical answer is divine intervention. Wether it be the Christian god, another god, or some divine alien or some shit.

To believe that something comes from nothing is illogical and ignorant.

>>725758647
No. Why would you bet on the most popular one, if other options give you less risk and even greater reward? How about a god of tits and wine with 100 virgins and zero chance of going hell? Why wouldn't you bet on that one instead of some with rules and possibility of eternal torment?

>>725759500
>the fact that there is no God
but thats, like, your opinion, man

>>725761718
He gets it.

>>725761821
Did you stop reading before the first comma?

>>725761821
You're an idiot. Truth has nothing to do with BELIEF. Read Hoffer some time. And just as some Godfags are True Believers, so are some Athiests (with a capital A).

Normal folks don't really care.

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>>725761821

>>725756602
Coz it's the most honest answer.

>>725758647
Eat shit, millions of flies can't be wrong.

>>725757488
90% of those 3000s deities are to be discredited lack to written events and documented times.

If any religion is true it falls between Christianity or some Asian religion.

>>725756602
>Pascal's Wager
Pascal's Wager doesn't work because there are many religions. Bye.

>>725758085
Omnipotence is possible by in itself, that's the point. It's literally "just because".

>>725756602
If there is a God and he's good and all-knowing, he'll understand why I don't believe and will forgive my lack of faith. I doubt me going to church and faking belief will not increase my odds.

>>725761853
No, my opinion is that religion sucks. My conclusion that it is untrue is from the application of reason to evidence. No opinion necessary. The subjective opinion you can disagree with, the conclusion you can't because it's objective.

>>725761834
You're moving the problem over a step.

>the universe had to come from somewhere, therefore god

>so where did the god come from?

>oh well science and logic don't apply to the god of course god didn't need to be created

What's stopping me from then arguing the universe didn't need to be created?

>>725762090
Islam made some impressive evidence for itself when Allah allowed 19 amateurs to bring down 3 skyscrapers with 2 planes. And you know Allah wanted us to know He was responsible, because he preserved Mohammad Atta's passport, perfectly undamaged, atop a pile of ash from the collapsed tower.

Those are miracles that put anything in the Bible to shame.

>>725758628
One object, plus one object, equals two objects. Faggot.

The term one is subjective but could be replaced with any term and still be math.

In case you don't know, this post is bait. When The Childlike Empress is the image being posted with some "checkmate atheists" argument OP is just fucking with you. It's like how Time Machine Modulus gets posted in cringe threads on /mu/, the Ash cosplay child gets posted on /vp/, and the furry pouring wine gets posted here.

>>725762090
"If any story is true, it falls between Lord Of The Rings and Harry Potter, because they're written, instead of being passed on by word of mouth."


That's literally your argument. Anon, please. I need my sides.

>>725761973
No, I was rejecting your idea that one can be a "radical" atheist. A person can be otherwise radical and also an atheist, by coincidence, but Atheism is never radical on its own.

>>725761834
putting a God at the end of the chain doesn't change anything. You've just changed the original cause to be explained.

>>725758770
>implying other religions beside maybe two have somewhat concrete history behind them.

When everyone in a bait thread is a retard

>>725762587
Congratulations, you're a retard!

>>725762587
that includes you an me /b/rother

>>725759500
>things that didn't happen 2k17 edition

>>725761990
Read Russell sometime. Hoffer was wrong.

>>725762725
> 2k17
Wouldn't that be 34,000?

>>725756602
>Only proves that cucks exist

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>>725756602
Am I the only person who has 'impure thoughts' about 'The Childlike Empress' from 'Neverending Story' whenever I see these threads??
Just wondering.

>>725758698
I don't KNOW, but burden of proof. I won't believe in anything until it has been proven.
"I can't disprove something, therefore I must consider it a possibility?" Really? Go read up on Russell's Teapot.

>>725762770
Anti-intellectualism is all the rage rn. You'll thrive in the Era of trump.

>>725762509
I believe in evolution, natural selection, Big Bang, etc.

I've come to the conclusion religion and philosophy work hand in hand with science.

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>>725762572
Why are atheists so damn angry at God these days?

>>725762509
p.s omnipotence needs no answer, it answers itself by definition.

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>>725756602
Confucius always say: "He who goes to bed with itchy butt, wake up with smelly finger..."

>>725756602

If you're a false believer you're going to hell also.

>>725762870
OP clearly does.

>>725762945
None of those things requires belief, they are knowable, objective facts.

>>725762372
b8, but just as Japan, the only damage ever done to America is sneak spits in the face.

Insert Pearl Harbor, get 2 nukes.

Insert 9/11, get occupation and dominance of your land people and resources.

It was a smarter play for the US to just take what the Middle East has instead of making it into a Walmart parking lot.

>>725762737
Russell praised Hoffer

>>725763244
>objective

>>725762372
That was God punishing America for..., you know..., gays and abortions.

>>725762324
Once again the beauty of divine intervention, it literally exists just because it can.

I'm a huge philosophy nerd, uhh, I came to this conclusion after a lot of acid so don't take me too seriously, I feel as if the vastness of all living things and the ever expanding universe is too grand to not have some afterlife, if anything science itself brought me to this.

>>725763510
The irrational frequently try to justify their irrationality with "Science".

>>725763276
He respected him, didn't agree with him.

>>725762870
no you're not.
i am ashamed.

>>725763263
You didn't refute the miracle of it. Japan was a fully-developed military power. The 9/11 hijackers had a few weeks of pilot school, and that's it. They just happened to carry out their attack on the same day when NORAD was standing down to have a simulation of exactly the sort of attack the hijackers were carrying out.

They knocked down 3 buildings with 2 airplanes. That is a blessed miracle of Allah, and evidence that Islam is the one true religion, if any religion is true.

I mean, Moses might have parted the Reed Sea, but he didn't have to get NORAD to stand down to allow it to happen. Jesus' turning water into wine and providing the bread and fish were just party tricks, by comparison to this.

>>725762478
Most religions by word alone are all faked, smarter people of the time taking advantage.

If you're so factual, you should know that only sourced backed religions should be taken seriously.

Also, LOTR and Hairy Shitter are both awful films, Star Wars too.

>>725763510
Your acid trip was probably fun. It wasn't science.

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>>725763510
>I feel as if the vastness of all living things and the ever expanding universe is too grand to not have some afterlife, if anything science itself brought me to this.
>I feel
>science itself brought me to this.

That's not how science works.

>>725763510
Once again the beauty of the Universe, it literally exists just because it can.

Why not just say that?

>>725756602
pascal wager is shit, cuz it doesnt include 200 active religions. Whatever u pick u r probably wrong and gonna go to hell

>>725763497
Which God? If it was the Christian God, why would he set up the Muslim God to look like the real deal? If it was Allah, why aren't you a Muslim?

>literally made up dude
Thanks, thread done

>>725756602
Because I don't reduce my beliefs to probability. If I live a virtuous life, it doesn't matter if god is real or not.

>>725763734
I don't go by the Bible because it's man made.

Have you ever seen TSA agents pre 9/11? No I deff could believe it happening easily, as said before countries can only sneak America, just to get fucked for the next 2 decades and drained.

Tl;dr tricking obese nigger TSA agents and hiding small weapons is not hard pre 2001.

>>725763753
>sourced backed religions
So, none of them? A book doesn't mean Mordor is real. A book doesn't mean god is real.
"Someone wrote a book" != proof of a thing.

Also, I recognize the bait, I'm just debating the point because I've heard some idiots sincerely argue that point.

>>725756602
Jewus, if he even roamed the middle east from a historical pov, was a commie, Joseph was a cuck, Mary was a whore, and his followers consisted of 12 jews and an std ridden broke hooker. Need I go on?

>>725763953
Note this while getting spit roasted by two demons for ur ignorance.

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It's best to read the Bible to kids while they're young

>>725763830
>If it was the Christian God, why would he set up the Muslim God to look like the real deal?
In order to maximize the cuck factor for the Americans.
Also..., the Christian God is a woman..., deal with it, Hasim.

>>725764147
WTF is wrong with the back of that kid's head? Did they capture the image of his brain literally exploding from the stupidity of what he's being taught?

>>725764003
There's no way you can get around it. It was a miracle. The NIST report said damage from debris was not a factor in the collapse of WTC 7. No steel skyscraper has collapsed from office fires besides WTC 7, before or since.

They knocked down 3 skyscrapers with 2 airplanes. That's a fucking miracle.

And Atta's passport just laying on the top of a pile of ash on the sidewalk for the NYPD Chief to casually find? Just a wink and a nod from the one, true God.

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>>725764129

>>725764129

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>>725764129
kek

>>725763767
Not bait I swear, science has brought me to this because I fully believe in science, even if god is real, without science how could we understand and operate?

It scientifically and mathematically comes down to the question, "can you create something from pure non existence" and you can't because 0 doesn't create 1.

But insert Devine intervention and there you go, to believe in no "higher being" not even god, is ignorant and illogical.

Blinded by spite and by most the desire to be "superior" by disagreeing, not saying you, just the clichè atheists.

>>725764351
3edgy5me

>>725764519
Oh I don't mind this haha. As said before I'm a philosophical man.

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>>725764351
Hot lmao, I'm not a southern baptist my guy, if this considered "bad" I've already fucked up my mortality with coke and pussy.

>>725764519
>file name

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>>725762372
lost

>>725764764

That pigeon is correct. There is no God.

>>725764278
bait doesn't get me my guy, I will say it was quite the small window of possibility, but I could take a plane with a box cutter and ram it into ur house if I wanted. So still not impressed.

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Equally valid theories seeing as how its all supposition.

>>725764770
Unless you raped someone, neither of those things are immoral.

>>725764536
>It scientifically and mathematically comes down to the question, "can you create something from pure non existence" and you can't because 0 doesn't create 1.
Your fallacy is here in assuming the universe existing now necessarily means it was created from nothing. We can only logically trace time back to the Big Bang (a hypothesis) and will never be able to know what happened before it without the use of time travel.

>>725764927
You couldn't take 2 planes and knock down 3 skyscrapers, though. That's not just a lucky 7-10 split. It's fucking impossible. There was only one chance for it to happen, and it happened. It's a miracle.

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>>725760271
This is the whole phoney argument, and there;s so much wrong with it.

1. The theory says AT Big Bang. There was no "before" full of "nothing" - by which most non-thinkers imagine as empty space.

2. There was no space AT Big Bang

3. This whole approach pushes the question back one - where did "God" come from? If you can't get "something" from "nothing" then who created God?

4. Little exercise for the ignorant of physics:

> AT Big Bang the entire universe was contracted to a single point of zero volume and infinite mass

No time, no space.

Take that point away and what do you have?

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>>725764770

>>725756602
Because I chose, and no man is wise enough to not be a fool in part.

None such men exist. I chose; I sowed; I'll reap.

>>725757488
If you go with Islam you get to be a genuine cunt for your whole life and that qualifies you for heaven. How do all these disparate religions compete? You've got one Abrahamic God and three religions arguing over what the requirements are for their particular heaven.

God can't be geo-specific, being born in the Amazon rainforest and never hearing Christians..or otherwise..proselytising about their God. Would your ignorance condemn you to hell? That sounds most like the capricious God of the Jews.

>>725765170
Don't know about you, but the girls I fuck scream my name.

>>725756602

Atheism is mostly just a lack of belief.

Most agnostics don't believe in a god. They say they don't know, so sit on the fence.. But they don't actually believe. They are really atheists.

Only a few atheists want to debate it.

>>725758698
I don't know is more scary to a lot of people than "I'm pregnant!". Me personally I think life is literally a journey of discovery, but I don't think there's a test at the end of it. I see it almost like a test drive for our internal energy or soul. I see it as when we're done with this life we get a chance to see it without the dimension of time, as in these husks our brains are only able to comprehend forward motion. Our brains little more than a quantum decision making device.

Maybe you get a good "best of" highlight reel at the end.

Did you have a good world when you died? Enough to base a movie on?

>>725759344
You're thinking of the God of the Jews. The Christian God is a peacenik man.

>>725756602
It's also smarter to use your free time to go outside, meet friends, find a love interest and so on, yet you are here, creating a shitpost.

Math has conclusively proven that you are a faggot, m8.

Something that tripped me up recently is that "nothing" can't exist, right? Absolute nothingness can't be measured with some sort of device. My philosophy is that I am the universe experiencing itself subjectively. All things have "divinity" inherently. When my body "dies" the things that make me, me get recycled back into the universe to be used as something else. I'm still stuck on what consciousness is and if it can exist outside of my human body.

>>725756602
It's only a little better, as there are over 4000 religions to choose from. Taking a guess at random would be foolish. You can rule out most of them for nonsense, but then things like the Bible say the universe is 6000 years old when we can clearly calculate distance to other stars using parallax and the light's been coming towards us for billions of years.

To accept Christianity and make it consistent with observable universe means twisting it and reinterpreting it, meaning definitely a different sect than most existing ones. Shit, trying to look up every valid interpretation of every sect of every religion just so I can give pascal's wager a reasonable attempt would take most of my life.

I'd rather just keep doing research and try to make our world less shitty than worry about it. I am going to pick baptist because I don't want my daughter to be a slut and they forbid drinking and dancing.

I am a proud luciferian.
Personally I don't give a fuck about other religions, unless someone starts going ape shit that he is haunted by the devil and etc... cause that is a retarded view which abrahamic religions share on satanism. And which makes me buthurt

>>725766688
>prohibition has never worked
>oppressing people's natural sexuality through religion does not work

>>725766622
>if it can't be measured, it can't exist
Seems legit.

>>725761533
That's the while point. Normal people don't look at religious people and try and convert them to non belief. I don't need a body of numbers to qualify my beliefs.

Like my ma used to say, if everyone else jumped off a cliff, would you? Be your own person. Make your own choices and have the balls to call your decisions your own, don't try and justify your way of living as divine. You're no different than me, we're all red inside and we all die one day. Don't be afraid, I'm not. If there's a God I'll be having some chilled convos, if not, no loss, you won't know shit about it anyway.

The one thing there sure as hell ain't is hell, that's a uniquely human piece of fearmongering. "Be like the rest of us or burn in hell" Uh huh. Pull the other one it's got bells on.

>>725761834
To believe you can create energy is against the known laws of the universe. See what I did there? Known.

>>725757488
>>725757833
>>725759344
>>725759500
>>725761533
>>725762222
>>725763244
>>725763700
>>725763855
>>725764988
>>725765499
>>725766444
>>725766622
>>725766688
>>725767199

All this blasphemy in Kek's presence.

>>725767142
Well, logically, in this context wouldn't it be true?
How do you measure nothing? You can measure a lack of heat, light, etc, but actual nothing trips my thought process up.

>>725762090
So the most popular ones must be right? Just like at school huh? All the popular kids are right just because they're popular. If there is a God, they exist without rhyme or reason.

>>725756602
Infadenl
Islam is the true doctrine

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>>725760271

Atheism is a belief that we don't know.

Given everything in our observation is natural and has natural causes we can safely (not absolutely) presume that nothing supernatural exists.

Also we don't believe "there was nothing". Our universe implies that nothing is not a natural state. There was no "nothing" before the big bang as there was no "before".

How does that work? We don't know, and we're still trying to figure things out. And it's OKAY that we don't know. We've not known about a lot of things long before we understood how they happened.

But I bet if there was some sort of cause, it wasn't supernatural.

>>725767502
Logically, you're misrepresenting the inability to be measured with the cause of the impossibility. That's what I'm refuting. Gravity existed before we could measure it. So did air pressure, infrared, UV rays, etc.

>>725767893
Like I said, ALL of those can be measured and have an observable effect on our environment. Nothing doesn't(?) in what way would "nothing" be measured? If it exists then it's not nothing by definition.

>>725768162
Logically you'd have to measure it for all things and find an absence of those things.

>>725767659
Supernatural is only undefined natural. Once we understand a mecanism then we find there's nothing supernatural about it. Whether it be time, gravity or death.

If there is a God, and if he gave us free will, then his whole point was to see what we do with it. How do we choose. Whether you make decisions based on group dynamics or not doesn't make you unclean in the eyes of God.

People are supposed to as k questions, seek answers and make choices. You shouldn't need someone else's framework of beliefs to live a life that betters humanity as a whole.

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>>725756602
i mean whenever i ser your posts op i just laught but this time i cringed
bad bait
ur not even tryin

>>725756602
Have belief in your convictions! This is not Paddy Power. There are no Gods even if there are so many up for selection. Get over it and come to terms with your mortality.

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>>725759344

Actually only Christianity and Islam are particular that you believe in them, and threaten you for refusing to do so.

Of course there's also Roko's Basilisk in whatever countless iterations it might take, but so long as you don't know about Roko's Basilisk, you're safe.

The Olympians, the Aesir and the Egyptian gods all are fine with you not caring about them, so long as you live well (according to their definitions of living well).

>>725758770
Remember there are also 40,000 denominations of Christianity. All but a small percentage of them believe "Extra Ecclesiam nulla salus", including the Catholic Church (despite what Pope Francis opines, the Holy See has not passed any new bulls, though the RCC does recognize the Greek and Russian Orthodox Churches)

A small percentage of protestant faiths hold that other Christians can ascend to Heaven, or even that non-Christians can ascend to Heaven if Jesus is feeling kindly on the day the non-Christian dies.

Math hasnt proven what u say it did.

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>>725763004

I, for one, am pissed off not at God but at people who use their belief in scripture to perpetuate social inequality, and control who fucks with whom.

That god is simply a justification for people being dicks.

>>725764988
>thread
Pascals wager refuted by the simpsons

>>725769253
>The Olympians, the Aesir and the Egyptian gods all are fine with you not caring about them, so long as you live well (according to their definitions of living well).


Not really. There were all sorts of ways of pissing of the Olympians. The God of the Bible generally doesn't get annoyed unless people are extremely degenerate (cf. Sodom and Gomorrah). In fact, knowledge is considered a basis for judgement. But deliberate ignorance is no excuse.

>>725769547
This is not the Christian God. Free will is at the core of Christianity, unlike in Islam, Hinduism, etc.

>>725764988
Well the peoples of Europe rejected their pagan past, finding it embarrassing and not at all consonant with the idea of true deity. And I'm not prepared to convert to Islam

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Note according to the Christian narrative:

Since the Harrowing of Hell (when Jesus went to snatch up a the purgators and good people), NO ONE has gone to Heaven since, and will not until the rapture / second coming.

The ones in waiting spend eons in Sheol, in miserable conditions that would shred the sanity of mortal minds over years, let alone centuries.

Also, over 100,000,000,000 (that's 100 BILLION) people are damned to Hell (Hades, the Hell of the Damned). At most 2,000,000,000 souls are worthy of salvation. That is, either in heaven or destined to heaven. So if this was ever a gotta-catch-em-all contest, Satan has a decisive victory, because Jesus was too stingy on who joined his club.

And according to the RCC, The Pope could change that at any time. If the Holy See passed a bull to open the gates of Heaven to all, living or dead or even damned, the Pope would -- again, according to the Christian narrative -- save 100 billion souls.

But that would be too liberal for the RCC, and might destabilize their power base. So for very mortal, material reasons, they don't enact what would be the greatest act of spiritual salvation across time itself.

>>725759274
The universe as we know it, isn't a bunch of Something that came out of Nothing. As far as we can tell, with gravity acting to balance out energy, matter balancing anti matter, etc, it all cancels itself out in the end. So it technically is still nothing.

>>725765161
But random chaotic and destructive processes do not create order. According to my worldview, always 'something' existed, and that something was God. He also took otherwise chaotic forces and shaped them into something beautiful, into a mechanism with function that could support life and not just immediately implode

>>725770394
Actually, sheol refers to the death state, and this was the Jewish understanding. It's a state of non-existence. Otherwise Jesus wouldn't have been kept for 3 days 'there'. Ecclesiastes 9:5:

"Whatever your hand finds to do, do it with your might, for there is no work or thought or knowledge or wisdom in Sheol, to which you are going."

Sheol is a place of non-existence, and Jesus likened it to a sleep like state

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>>725770059
There WERE all sorts of ways of pissing off the Olympians, and they'd torture you personally if they noticed you and were annoyed.

Those stories were specifically cataloged.

But the underworld included Tartarus (where the Titans were held) and the Elysian Fields. And you had to be a really evil fuck to not make it into the fields.

Meanwhile as I posted above, 100 billion people in Hell. 2 billion people with salvation. By the rules of the bible.

Jesus came to late and was too stingy.

Which god? You still only have like a 1 in a billion chance of picking the right one.

GOD IS IN YOUR BRAIN / HEAD IT IS NOT FUCKING REAL

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>>725770059

Christian notions of free will do not take into consideration confirmation bias or attitude polarization.

And US representatives and the majority of US churches deride gays and singles for their promiscuity, and seek to deny women control of their childbirth, based on their faith.

These are as real Christians as any other, and it is not your place to say otherwise.

>>725770863

That's not the interpretation of the RCC. The Harrowing took place in Sheol which is Hell's waiting room.

And it's dark and cold and miserable. And those who have salvation wait there until the apocalypse.

>>725770900
Wrong, wrong. wrong. VERY few made it to the Elysian Fields. Achilles was one, because of his extreme heroism (supposedly). Most were condemned to live as shades eternally in Haides. This was a miserable existence.

If you understand Revelation 20 correctly, it speaks of Hades (or Sheol, a place of sensory nonexistence) being destroyed in 'the lake of fire', where Satan is destroyed. After hades is destroyed, Adamic death no longer applies. Then Revelation 21:3,4 clearly states that there will be no more pain or death. This is not condemning the vast majority to torment, but promising mankind everlasting life

>>725767659
> Atheism is a belief that we don't know.

You're thinking of agnosticism. Atheism specifically describes a lack of belief in god. Some would claim that atheism is a belief that there is no god, but that's kind of like saying baldness is a hair colour.

YOU DON'T NEED TO BE A FUCKING PHYSICIST TO KNOW GOD IS BULLSHIT

>>725771578
Atheists like Stalin, Mao and Pol Pot committed mass genocide (in part) in order to promulgate and enforce atheism.

One cannot blame a text or religious worldview if people do the opposite of the tenets of that worldview. For example, Jesus never went around condemning the common people, even though they were sinners. He actually did spend a lot of time excoriating the religious leaders of the time. But he never encouraged sin though.

The RCC has so many non-biblical doctrines and has done so many evil things, that it cannot be a candidate for 'true Christianity'

If the whole universe has no meaning, we should never have found out that it has no meaning: just as, if there were no light in the universe and therefore no creatures with eyes, we should never know it was dark. Dark would be without meaning.

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>>725771579
No.

Achilles was elevated to heroism, which his why his is a name that we all still know today.

Elysian only closed its gates when it became Christianized by St. Augustine, and reinterpreted as a parable of the path to Heaven.

>>725771991
> Atheists like Stalin, Mao and Pol Pot committed mass genocide (in part) in order to promulgate and enforce atheism.

How's about some evidence that they did those things in support of atheism as opposed to entrenching themselves in power?

>>725772078
We could never find out that it has no meaning, unless we could traverse beyond it. Or understand it at the level of creatorship.

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>>725771822

Agnosticism is a nice way of saying atheism that doesn't get you thrown out in parties.

I identify as atheist ("naturalist" actually, I am incidentally atheist), but that doesn't mean I adamantly don't believe in gods, but that the specific ones we've had defined for us are contrary to what we understand of nature.

A god may exist but I suspect it won't be anything like the gods we've imagined or supposed. Certainly the named gods are certainly fictional, with perhaps an infinitesimal modicum of doubt.

>>725771991
bullshit. Stop attributing doing good things to Christianity. Christians have killed so many more people in the name of their god... ridiculous!

>>725772747
um do you have proof of christians killing anyone?

>>725772943
sigh. really now?

>>725772247
Very few seem to have actually been thought to have made it to Elysium. Whenever heroes traversed the underworld, they always visited the land of the shades.

http://www.theoi.com/Kosmos/Elysion.html

Achilles was thought to have ended up in Elysium. And he wasn't 'elevated' to hero status, if you were half divine, you were automatically a 'hero'.

>>725772272
Well they actively persecuted and killed the religious, instituted a cult of personality, actively propagandized non-belief, and at different times banned religion outright. Similar with the Korean Kims, and (to a degree) all the Eastern Bloc communist regimes.

>>725772666
>but that the specific ones we've had defined for us are contrary to what we understand of nature.

No they aren't. Or, no he isn't. That is a fatuous statement.

>>725773045
i'm waiting

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>>725771991

Stalin, Mao and Pol Pot committed mass genocide not for Atheism, but for their own specific ideologies. And Constantine wiped out any Christian that refused to take on his Apollonian revision of the New Testament.

The USSR banned religion because it was contrary to Leninist Communism, The USSR did not ban religion because it was contrary to atheism.

Christianity is an identity, and any who call themselves Christians have as much say in what Christianity is -- and the correct way to interpret scripture -- as any other Christian. This is doubly true in Protestantism in which Sola Scriptura (the bible alone) is the only authority.

So you don't get to say who a "true Christian" is or isn't. The gun-toting, gay-hating, women-subjugating, brimstone-slinging Christians are just as valid in their understanding of the faith as the California Universalists who are pro-gay, pro-women and celebrate that everyone goes to Heaven.

>>725773045
No one has killed anyone for Christ. In fact Jesus forbade Peter from killing to protect Jesus' life. None of the apostles killed anyone (while Christian at any rate). Some power structures have evolved which twisted the scriptures (or ignored them) in order to maintain their own influence, but have nothing to do with Christianity as Jesus taught. Whereas in atheism there is no basic text, any atheist can do evil and not be answerable to any core belief. However atheists in power has been exponentially worse than even the Inquisition

>>725773293
read a fucking history book once in a while! the ones capturing the time between the year 0 and now might be evidence enough.

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>>725773163

Very few Mortals have made it into the Underworld at all. There's a gateway in Greece but those who cross into it commonly perish and don't live to tell the tales (poison gas).

Curiously, Achilles wasn't given his on constellation in the stars, which is a more common reward for being a hero.

Maybe they ran out of sky.

>>725773536
ever read e.g. about missionaries to south america in the 1600s, 1700s end so on?

>>725773526


Atheism is a natural and inseparable part of Marxism, of the theory and practice of scientific socialism.[7]

In About the attitude of the working party toward the religion, he wrote

Religion is the opium of the people: this saying of Marx is the cornerstone of the entire ideology of Marxism about religion. All modern religions and churches, all and of every kind of religious organizations are always considered by Marxism as the organs of bourgeois reaction, used for the protection of the exploitation and the stupefaction of the working class.[8]


No, God determines who is a Christian and who isn't. And the basic scriptural tenets are clear. Those who practice evil will not inherit the kingdom. Matthew 7:21-23:
"21 “Not everyone who says to me, ‘Lord, Lord,’ will enter the kingdom of heaven, but only the one who does the will of my Father who is in heaven. 22 Many will say to me on that day, ‘Lord, Lord, did we not prophesy in your name and in your name drive out demons and in your name perform many miracles?’ 23 Then I will tell them plainly, ‘I never knew you. Away from me, you evildoers!’"

However, those who practice homosexual acts cannot be saved unless they repent. Also, clearly the Bible assigns women a submissive role. And in fact modern degeneracy does not produce a better society. The world had massive problems in the 50s, but new age feminazism and moral relativism has made things 1000 times worse.

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>>725756602

>>725773163
> Well they actively persecuted and killed the religious, instituted a cult of personality, actively propagandized non-belief, and at different times banned religion outright. Similar with the Korean Kims, and (to a degree) all the Eastern Bloc communist regimes.

Killing religious people had more to do with nullifying potential threats to power than anything. Communism's atheistic element was largely a reaction to the theistic element of power structures against which communism was contrasted. I'd bet good money that if those structures had been predominantly atheistic (and atheism was a movement which historically wielded great power and control) communism would've singled out atheists instead.

Look at predominantly atheist countries today. How many of them engage in ideological genocide?

>>725774033
Some did good, some did evil, however Christianity has been a force for good. It made Europe a more just place than it would have otherwise been. Also prior to the arrival of the missionaries, they practiced all sorts of abominations in the Americas. However, Christianity is evident in the deed and not the word. No one who kills can be said to honour the life and sayings of Jesus.

>>725756602
That's not faith

I bet that if there happens to be he will understand skepticism more

>>725774041
The point is, they embraced atheism with a kind of evangelical fervour. There is nothing inherent in belief which is contrary to 'the workers control the means of production'. These fanatic bolsheviks and others were committed atheists, and Stalin raised Lenin's extreme antipathy into violent persecution

>>725774041
that is some bullshit right there. WTF! How can someone be so fucking ... I mean where do you get that shit from?

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>>725773260

...such as the notion of a human soul that contains the consciousness...it directly conflicts with quantum mechanics.

Even if we imagined that there was some ephemeral piece of the human being that could retain his or her life experiences, personality, et. al. -- what requires three pounds of functional human brain in material terms -- it would be so fragile, so delicate that natural phenomena would tear it apart.

In fact, it does. Nothing trying to do so much with so little can survive simple Brownian motion or the Earth's natural magnetism.

Of course, all this goes away if we're not in a material world but an ideal one, say a computer simulation. Then you can create specific exceptions.

But that would mean we're living in a simulation.

>>725774283
The ordinary religious folk posed no serious threat. But religion is a common factor to humanity throughout history, and the bosheviks, maoists and khmer rouge were anti-human, Satanic.

North Korea engages in ideological genocide. Some might say with their extreme policies of cultural genocide, moral relativism, and anti-male rhetoric, that Sweden and some other liberal states are going down are more subtle form of self-destruction

>>725761834
>To believe that something comes from nothing is illogical and ignorant.
So where did god come from?

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>>725756602

>>725774726
What the bit from wikipedia, or the bit from the Bible, or the notion that modern degenerate society is absolutely worthless? Humanism and secularism has produced nothing of value, people are more estranged than ever, and more divided. Morality and ethics are almost non existent

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>>725756602

>>725774308
no. It held back science worth a few hundred years. We could live in a much more advanced society if religion would have had not the impact it has had. I mean kill someone because he said the earth is not the center of the universe - Im talking about Kepler which can be used as an example for many other incidents that formed European society in the name of God through the almighty church? Jesus Fucking Christ!

>>725774759
No actually quantum mechanics predicts and provides the basis for free will. However matter is more durable than you think. Although it isn't real sometimes on a quantum level it is real on a macro level. However I feel strongly that decision making and small assertions of the will can be explained as quantum events.

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>>725774041

Copy pasta? You might as well cite your sources.

But no, marxism is not "inseparable" from atheism. Atheism might be axiomatic to marxism, but it's also axiomatic to scientific models (e.g. When you toss a thing, it follows in accordance to the law of falling bodies, unless Something Else interferes with it).

I suspect -- I don't know. It's been a long time since I read Marx -- Marx may have been suggesting a system of human government has to remain secular rather than sectarian. Once a church is allowed to start inserting its scriptural doctrine into law, the system ceases becoming communist (for the community) but creeps towards theocracy (for the deity / church).

But I'm guessing based on my own dabbling in Poli-sci.

>>725774884
To believe that structure and function came about without design is illogical and ignorant.

>>725774759
What if we're some beyond quantum Multi
threaded consciousness beyond our own
recognisable selves ????, What if Muslims are like a trojan virus
what if we get rid of all the muslims and discover sanity.

>>725775079
Christianity is designed to divide people. So there goes your argument! And the bible is as much a credible source as L. Ron Hubbards bestsellers or anything Tolkien wrote.

>>725756602
It works just as well from the other side: Any God that would punish me for not believing in Him, is not a God I could have much respect for in the first place. Far easier to believe in a merciful God who cares not one whit whether I believe, only if I tried my best to lead a decent, productive life. So I feel pretty safe not believing in any God at all. If I'm wrong, and there *is* a God, I will be delighted. (for the millisecond it takes before I realize this is a God that put Donald Trump in office and we're all screwed!)

Maybe the safest bet is SIthrack, the flaming evil God who never dissapoints!

GOD
HATES
FAGS

>>725775458
ORLY

What about Muslims ?, Now why would a god design these fucking imbeciles ?

>>725774871
> The ordinary religious folk posed no serious threat.

Right, because ordinary people rising up in revolution never happened.

> But religion is a common factor to humanity throughout history

So is murder, rape, theft and any other shitty thing you care to name.

> North Korea engages in ideological genocide.

So you can name a single atheistic country that does so, and it's the one that happens to be a totalitarian regime. Weird, huh? It's almost as if atheism isn't the common factor here.

> Some might say with their extreme policies of cultural genocide, moral relativism, and anti-male rhetoric, that Sweden and some other liberal states are going down are more subtle form of self-destruction

Some might say that ambiguous scaremongering doesn't amount to much without evidence.

GOD IS REAL I SAW HIM STANDING BEHIND A NIGGER AT THE GROCERY STORE

>>725775236
Technology is not an end in itself. If we were more advanced in the 1800s, the world would no longer be livable, because the chemical-industrial machine would have made the world unfit for human habitation, weapons of war like nukes would have made vast swathes of the planet desert and likely we'd be in the depths of nuclear winter. Technology must keep pace, and not outstrip, ethics and morality. Also population explosions are bad enough as they are. We cannot have a population boom that outstrips the planet's capacity to support it.

Also you are pretty ignorant, Kepler at no stage faced any of the things you are talking about. Galileo was threatened (not tortured or killed), primarily because geocentrism was the prevailing scientific view. The learned of the time were more wedded to Aristotelianism than anything in the Bible. Of course nowhere in the Bible does it support torture

>>725772943

Christians were doing everyone else a favour by eradicating Islam, Now it's back again the
Magog are at the gates and have entered the divine courtyards, They must be of Purge.

>>725775403
Wikipedia for the first section, the Bible for the second. We know that Marx spoke of the 'opium of the masses'. Marxism like all cults, has a special reverence for its founder and follows his teachings blindly. Marxism and atheism have been inseperable for the duration.

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>>725775372

I can see that if by "free will" you mean a human does what he computes the best thing to do is at the time, but occasionally does something random.

Only since the breakthroughs in the 1990s have we really made much advancement in psychology, but the more that we examine human behavior (and animal behavior which compares) and the more that we seek to mimic human behavior with robotic behavior, the smaller the window becomes for free will.

Free will is the "god of the gaps" regarding human psychology, but our entire social system relies on the notion of free will, given we have argued that necessity is a defense of criminal behavior (e.g. robbing a pharmacy of specific drugs to stay alive, or keep a loved-one alive).

At the point that we recognize that our greed, our bigotry our cruelty are all acts of personal insecurity and desperation that are fed upon by our society, it will be way less easy to just dismiss our inmates as undesirables.

Regardless, quantum mechanics can serve to create randomness in human personality and simultaneously assure that human souls would dissolve from their own delicacy.

>>725775713
Free will, and Satanic influence

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>>725756602
>Math has conclusively proven that God exists

Inshalah brother! Help these infidel to see the light of allah just as our prophet, peace be upon him, has told!

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>>725775476

Why fixate on Muslims. We've seen Jews and Christians allow their society to move towards liberal reform (e.g. allowing women to be their own property -- more or less) Muslims are going through the same process of realizing that the extremism within their own scripture runs contrary to a functional, egalitarian society large enough to support infrastructure.

Just the way that the Jews have been able to contain their own codes that are inhumane to create a gentler society, so can we all.

Religion isn't the problem. Traditionalism in the face of new knowledge, new awareness that's the problem.

When our world is falling apart on us and the climate is changing, that's not a good time to start relying on the promise of the rainbow.

>>725776060
Sorry, not Kepler, my bad, I meant Giordano Bruno - I mix them up sometimes for no apparent reason - who was burned for his crimes of spitting out some facts. But I'm ignorant - why not!

>>725775484
People are divided anyway. Christianity historically has brought more people together than it has divided. Exponentially vis a vis Tolkien or any other text. Except for the Quran perhaps which negates personal freedom.

>>725775744
>Right, because ordinary people rising up in revolution never happened.

Very rarely, despite utopian fantasies. The Bolshevik revolution certainly was not one. Indeed, the unmilitant masses have never been a threat, and least so in Russia, which had a pliant mass of serfs for centuries.

>So is murder, rape, theft and any other shitty thing you care to name.

And love, justice, care for the young, desire to know one's place in the universe etc. All the great works of art have some religious connection. What atheist composer wrote music like Bach? How many atheists designed something equivalent tot he Sistine Chapel? Michelangelo's David?

>So you can name a single atheistic country that does so, and it's the one that happens to be a totalitarian regime. Weird, huh? It's almost as if atheism isn't the common factor here

North Korea is the only atheist country on the planet. Atheist countries come about through oppressive force. Some elements of the atheist left in the west would be happy to see such 'enlightened policies'

>Some might say that ambiguous scaremongering doesn't amount to much without evidence.

Sweden and Germany in particular are suffering because of extreme liberalism and moral relativism. Its another Weimar period all over again

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>>725776260

Remember Christianity, and all its reformations, too, were cults.

And that's not Marxism, that's just the first people who considered it.

Every ideology requires review and revision. Like the Mesopotamian civilization, once precepts are set in stone never to be revised, it is doomed.

>>725776260
Christianity is a cult as well. It qualifies in every aspect. No better than Scientology if you ask me or anyone else with a functioning brain!

>>725773536
What we about the crusades?

>>725776961
>Giordano Bruno

holding opinions contrary to the Catholic faith and speaking against it and its ministers;
holding opinions contrary to the Catholic faith about the Trinity, divinity of Christ, and Incarnation;
holding opinions contrary to the Catholic faith pertaining to Jesus as Christ;
holding opinions contrary to the Catholic faith regarding the virginity of Mary, mother of Jesus;
holding opinions contrary to the Catholic faith about both Transubstantiation and Mass;
claiming the existence of a plurality of worlds and their eternity;
believing in metempsychosis and in the transmigration of the human soul into brutes;
dealing in magics and divination.


Well, Tyndale was burnt at the stake for translating the Bible into the common tongue, and Servetus, Felix Manz, and the Waldenses were killed for holding different theological opinions from the secular authorities of their day (just like Bruno)

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>>725777138

Christianity is 40,000 cults. Some have existed long enough to be accepted as orthodoxy.

I can guarantee you that if you "bet that there is a God" and worship your entire life with that premise in mind, you won't get into your "Heaven". There's no fucking way God Almighty would let you in knowing you only gave a shit because the alternative is burning in Hell.

>>725773536

Constantine massacred for Jesus, and the killing hasn't stopped.

In fact in the US Army, some of our generals felt it was necessary to instill killing-for-Jesus into the troops, hence the whole "Spiritual Readiness" program.

So killing for the Christ is current and ongoing.

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>>725777354

And yet the threat of Hellfire is the most common argument used in the Great Commission.

Also, it's fun thinking that Hitler went to Hell. (Or anyone we don't like).

>>725756981
I have your moms nudes

>>725756602
>Math has conclusively proven that God exists

Stop being a fucking retard and engage with reality. Religion is a sham and "God" is not real.

>>725756602
specifically, the idea is that even if there is a miniscule fraction of a percent of a doubt that there *could* be a god, the consequences for not believing would be infinitely bad, so you should always just believe.

the problem with the wager is that it assumes that the god that might exist is one who would send you to eternal suffering if you didn't believe in him. what if the god under consideration would only send you to hell if you *did* believe in him? analytically there's no reason to think that might not be the case, so the wager has no force.

>>725777127
Christianity claims to have divine origins, and there is good reason for that belief.

1. It has been targeted by the most powerful states of its time and not been destroyed, ie. the Roman Empire, the USSR, the Caliphate, the Ottomans. Also the Roman Catholic Church massacred those who were trying to be Christian according to their consciences. The early Jews (from whom Christianity sprang) were violently opposed to it.

2. It provides a universal worldview for humanity. It proclaims equality, and millions have been liberated by it. Still in a world of unbelief, its vision for a united heaven and earth cannot be quenched.

3. The Bible has been targeted for destruction, by the Seleucids, the Catholic Church (which forbad translation in the vernacular). The Jews were almost exterminated by the Babylonians, Assyrians, and threatened by elements within the Achaemenid Empire, and in 70 AD Judaism was again almost defunct, and Christianity a persecuted minority.
Yet the Bible is by far the most widely distributed and accessible text. If God wanted to communicate with man, he would use such a text which is available in billions of copies and 1000s of languages (now online accesible to everyone).

Prophecies in the Bible always came true. One is that Babylon would be destroyed, which occurred more than 1000 years after Isaiah's time. Also the current world situation clearly reflects Jesus' description of the last days.

Etc...

>>725777138
>Because I assert something it is true.

How long have you been a sodomite?

hgfh

>>725756602
false dichotomy. what if you believe in a false god and that infuriates the true god?

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>>725777003

Is this one of those "what happened last night in Sweden" sort of things?

I expect that you could argue that Sweden is suffering because of extreme liberalism because they took in a bunch of war refugees (more than they could, comfortably) and are dealing with managing them all, but that's because refugees need a home and the rest of Europe is being stingy about theirs.

If there are other examples, you'll want to be specific. Otherwise, I'm pretty sure Sweden's doing better than the US is.

>>725777286
Yeah, burn someone for an opinion. What a Christian thing to do to one another. Your opinion is shit as well. Trinity? What the fuck is that shit? I'm God and my son but I'm also a ghost. What is it, God? Make up your fucking mind... And Mary was a virgin giving birth to Jesus? Sure, nothing wrong with that....

>>725777344
Doesn't matter, cult is cult! And bullshit stays bullshit!

>>725778266
As long as you've been a retard I suppose.

>>725777593
Constantine was remarkably tolerant for the day. He did start to favour the nicene crowd. In any case, I am anti-nicene. In fact, remarkably little state force was required to break paganism. It was a battle of the mind, heart and spirit, and paganism couldn't retain the adherence of the people. Even Julian's obscurantism had no effect whatsoever. Julian persecuted Christians far more than Constantine persecuted pagans.

Its the anti-Christian forces that far more readily resort to violence and oppression in order to enforce their twisted views

>>725778132
A sub zero IQ attempts to assert his pathetic will and non-intellect into a debate clearly above his pay grade

>>725778743
I seriously doubt yours is above his IQ.

>>725778352
He was killed because his view of Christianity was different from theirs. So you blame him for his own death? Christianity has nothing to do with the Inquisition, that stuff is purely satanic.

>>725778547
No I hazard a guess you have been a sodomite most of your life, whereas my intellect is clearly several levels above yours

>>725779056
Are you the guy that said the Kepler was tortured to death by the inquisition?

>>725756602
Is this all about possible consequences? Sounds like a belief based on fear and threat. Which God do you believe will provide salvation? you had better make the correct choice. Aethism is not a belief, it is just an acknowledgement that after death ther may not be much going on! Why do religious people believt hey are so special and worthy that they deserve an afterlife?

if god isn't real then how do you explain a baby's smile?
>christians 1
>atheists 0

>>725779056
nope, but was he? I can imagine that to be true...

>>725778743
you're a fucking idiot

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>>725756602

>>725779419
Grow up! How do you explain a miscarriage. Explain the great plan there?

>>725779128
Sure. And you're Christian, which is why you are the far better person than probably everyone around you! Eat a dick!

>>725756602

1. I have faith that i am more right than math

2.what consequences?? If there was a god how do you know he hasnt made some policy changes that dont punish unbelievers.

3.because FUCK YOU. (Best reason imo)

4. Also op if there is an afterlife wouldnt you go tohell for being in hell??

5.??????

6. PROFIT!!!
0/2 for gettin a reply

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>>725778201

Um, Plato's Republic has been targeted by powerful states both of its time and since. Having enemies and being targeted for destruction doesn't make a person or a scripture divine.

The bible is neither universal nor does it proclaim equality.

It was believed believed scriptural indicators of the apocalypse were visible and the end of the world was imminent pretty much throughout Christendom, though specifically around big round numbers such as 500 and 1000 CE.

Extraordinary claims require extraordinary evidence, and none of that is extraordinary except (maybe) to those who are seeking confirmation of their own beliefs.

Modern Christianity is about deciding who gets to fuck, and that's despite the alleged wars on hunger and poverty. So Christianity as it is demonstrated by its own institutions is a farce of whatever was intended by its founders.

I half suspect that Jesus was a con-artist much like Trump or Hitler, and the gospels were a witting revision by a handful of Scholars (based largely off Mark). Jesus as described in the New Testament may never have existed, and Constantine's revision assured that you're mostly worshiping Apollo, not a Galilean carpenter's son.

You're speaking for the prosecution, my friend, and by adhering to the Great Commission playbook you only lend evidence that you're no different from the countless other frauds desperate to get into Heaven.

Let me clear this up.

I do not exist, although I am typing these words.

Your friend,

God

>>725756602
Pascal's Wager: It's better to bet a billion times zero than just take what's behind curtain 3 and go home.

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>>725780035

>>725779419
Why does an new born turtle crawl to the sea? Survival instinct all genetically learnt behaviour.
Genetically necessary in order to survive.

>>725779738
the baby gets to spend eternity in the kingdom of heaven

>>725780558
and God is who blessed them with those instincts

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>>725780638
>>725780768

>>725780834
looks like christians win again.

>>725779056
His IQ couldn't be that high, responding to this ancient stale pasta.

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>>725778674

Once the Church came into power, they must have forgotten that tolerance.

Or rather it's simply that pluralism and sectarianism go in shifts. I have no particular love for the Hellenists, who were, themselves, intolerant of the Jews (or of each other). Long after Thermopylae, Xerxes had to be the one to instill religious freedom, which Rome emulated. Everyone can be dicks from time to time, and it's difficult to not be a dick when you're in power.

But that's the problem, Christianity has not helped society become less dickish. Crusades, religious conflicts, western imperialism, Italian fascism and German National Socialism all occurred under the watch of Christianity, and it's Christians fighting to push back freedom of religion in the US today (as well as, at least, the UK and Russia).

Christianity has only proven to serve as yet another burden, another justification of old, common practices of inequity and bigotry when we're desperately trying to civilize.

>>725756824
Enjoy your stay in hell, buddy.

>>725780768
How did God bless children who died at birth or the majority of turtles who do not make it to the sea? Seems more like tough love, or just perhaps just a Darwinian reality.

>>725781020
nope just adding to the bump limit

>>725781334
God blesses them because they get to spend eternity in the kingdom of heaven. Death is not a bad thing.

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>>725781250

Not sure if Poe.

Most people who threaten Hellfire do so because they think the (proverbial) gun is to their head too.

> I'm being held hostage by my religion.

>>725756602
>Math has conclusively proven that God exists
Must have missed the arXiv announcement on that one.