If you're a Theist, you are either a fucking idiot or you

I'm not religious but it is a false dichotomy to imply that religious people can't build rockets.

You see it a bit wrong
There is no evidence that's why religious people are wrong
But it's not religion in the first place it's the church/imam/rabbi that causes things like that

>>725257156
There's no evidence for atheism

>>725257468
Yeah well in the bible man tried to build a tower to reach the heavens, and God stopped them. So it is wrong to use rockets according to the bible.

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>>725257156

atheist supremasists are dicks just like any religious extremists

>>725257664
Actually there is 1. People are born homosexual/transsexual. Not possessed by a demon 2. the world wasn't made in 7 days LMAO 3. The universe is very different from how the bible described it. So I don't know what the fuck you're saying.

>>725257825
No we just believe in proof and evidence and wan't to rid this world of the vileness of the 3 Abrahamic Religions.

>>725257706
The evidence for Atheism is the lack of evidence for Theism.

>>725257931
1. Sure
2. I dunno man, you weren't there so you can't say that's not true. Your guess is as good as mine.
3. Yeah

>>725258045
That's not evidence, you're relying on belief there.

>>725257976
There are some massive dicks who are atheists
>"yeh im atheist"
>discussion
>more discussion
>derailed topic, now just insults
>"I never said I wasn't an asshole :^)"

stop

>>725257156
Atheists are the silent majority
Even in churches, the pews are full of people who are afraid to think too hard about reality in case they go to hell

>>725258332
>>725257976
OP is a fine example

>>725258332
You're an idiot. "I dunno man, you weren't there so you can't say that's not true. Your guess is as good as mine." What a dumb ignorant statement. Science has evidence that the universe is about 13 billion years old, that earth is 4.5 billion years old and that we evolved from microscopic organisms. Where is you're evidence? Exactly.

>>725258332
Just do some research and go to a museum.

>>725257156
I never understand these posts. It's as if you got into adulthood and suddenly thought 'wait a minute... Religion is a lie!' This should be coming a few years after realising Santa isn't real.

>>725257156

i'm a believer and i forgive you

>>725258792
No, you're an idiot with dumb ignorant statements. I haven't made any claims so I don't need any evidence.

Nationalism got us to the moon.

Science sure helped, but it wasn't the reason.

>>725258517
No actually. About 60% of Americans are Christian and about 31.5%(2.2 Billion) are Christian. Atheism or secularism comes in third after Islam.

>>725259102
>>725258923
"No, you're an idiot with dumb ignorant statements. I haven't made any claims so I don't need any evidence." You accuse me for being ignorant without telling me what I said was ignorant. Please tell me.

I am not an adult btw.

>>725257156
I remember posting this on my FB like 4 years ago trying to be an cool ass kid
The most ironic think was that I hide the image from my Muslim friends so they couldn't see the post
Only got 4 likes

>>725259102
So you aren't claiming that god exists?

>>725259367
Yeah I can tell. I'm saying fuck you since you said fuck you first.

>>725259428
No

>>725257706
>>725258045
congrats, you got baited

>>725257976
all religions*

>>725259133
I would say it was for science, but also for nationalism of course. Science allowed us to leave our damn planet to go to outer space and study it. That is what science is all about. Exploration, Discovery and gaining Knowledge of how our world works :).

>>725257407
As an atheist, you're a retard. There is no evidence that there is or is not a god

>>725257739
Philosophy class wasn't worth the effort huh?

>>725259610
Buddhism dindu nuffin wrong

>>725259666
>There is no evidence that there is or is not a god

exactly. Without evidence either way, it is irrational to form a belief.

if you do not form a belief, you are not a believer

aka atheist

>>725259367
You have to be 18 to post here

>>725259574
>god being created
I don't think you get what "Is, was, and always will be" means.

>>725259807
Isn't that agnosticism?

>>725259769
meh, they're just boring

>>725259666
Wow, cool you want Richard Dawkins. It's called rounding it off. If he has never made an appearance or done anything to help us, then I would deem his existence as false. So am I a retard for believing the flying spaghetti monster doesn't exist or that there are smurfs that live in the forest? Use you brain.

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>>725259898
so now its come to semantics

yes. it is. but agnosticism is about knowledge.

if you do not have a positive belief in the existence of a god, you are an atheist.

not sure, dont believe? agnostic atheist
not sure, believe? agnostic theist

>>725259850
Does 18 not count as a teen? In my country it does.

>>725260106
18 year olds count as adults

>>725260179
Alright cool.

>>725259769
I actually like Buddhism. Well the Atheistic Buddhism.

>>725260330
Zen's pretty cool

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TRUMP IS GOOD! ARYAN RACE MASTERRACE! TRUMP IS GOOD! ARYAN RACE MASTERRACE! TRUMP IS GOOD! ARYAN RACE MASTERRACE! TRUMP IS GOOD! ARYAN RACE MASTERRACE! TRUMP IS GOOD! ARYAN RACE MASTERRACE! TRUMP IS GOOD! ARYAN RACE MASTERRACE! TRUMP IS GOOD! ARYAN RACE MASTERRACE! TRUMP IS GOOD! ARYAN RACE MASTERRACE! TRUMP IS GOOD! ARYAN RACE MASTERRACE! TRUMP IS GOOD! ARYAN RACE MASTERRACE! TRUMP IS GOOD! ARYAN RACE MASTERRACE! TRUMP IS GOOD! ARYAN RACE MASTERRACE! TRUMP IS GOOD! ARYAN RACE MASTERRACE! TRUMP IS GOOD! ARYAN RACE MASTERRACE! TRUMP IS GOOD! ARYAN RACE MASTERRACE! TRUMP IS GOOD! ARYAN RACE MASTERRACE! TRUMP IS GOOD! ARYAN RACE MASTERRACE! TRUMP IS GOOD! ARYAN RACE MASTERRACE! TRUMP IS GOOD! ARYAN RACE MASTERRACE! TRUMP IS GOOD! ARYAN RACE MASTERRACE! TRUMP IS GOOD! ARYAN RACE MASTERRACE! TRUMP IS GOOD! ARYAN RACE MASTERRACE!

>>725259666
But there is a lot of evidence to disprove religions individually.
Btw nice satanic trips.

>>725258517
America is a particularly religious nation, but i concede your point. What i was actually getting at is that there is a large undocumented atheist population amongst the young - who are not old independent enough to come out to their religious parents, and thus do not appear on census data. Atheism is the fastest growing belief system year on year, at least in australia. I'm not sure what the american numbers are.

>>725259882
Why can God exist as "is, was, and always will be" but not the universe? Is not God not just an attempt to define something unknowable, the universe? Why have so many different names for one thing?

>>725261000
> Atheism is the fastest growing belief system

how does that work?

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>>725257156
You'll grow out of atheism when you're older, OP.
See you in church :)

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>>725262565
c u in HELL

>>725257156

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fbGkxcY7YFU

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>>725262565
She's so good with kids

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>>725260013
whoops, METAPHYSICS

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>>725263100
I prefer this version desu

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What about people who just follow the religion and all that jazz out of the convenience it gives, like a known community meeting center which meets once a week consistently?

>>725263219
Is it really free will if you can't be evil?

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>>725263666
Satanic evil trips confirm

>>725263666
Wow calm down satan

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>>725263100
>>725263260

>>725257156
sounds gay and cliche' but i legit hope you find some kind of faith in something, doesnt matter if its real
it was Buddhism for me

>>725257156
>the evidence

>>725262250
Dawkins is a smug faggot

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He Hath Arisen!

I assume some theists are here, can i ask you to answer some questions for me?

1/2
Why would god make the vast majority of the universe completely uninhabitable, and to that extent why would he bother making the rest of the universe at all if humankind and the earth are the sole focus of his creation?

Why would god after having created the universe wait 9 billion years to create the earth, then proceed to wait another 4 billion years before humans were able to be created?

Or if you don't subscribe to the idea that the universe is older than six thousand years. Why would god create all animals with the same fundamental building blocks as if they were all related through a common ancestor, despite the fact that this is detrimental to certain species; why would he not create each species from an individual starting point and furthermore, why would god give animals so many vestigial structures (features which no longer serve the purpose that they were originally intended for.) For example, why are 80% of a dolphin's olfactory receptor genes inactive, why do men have nipples, and why do humans experience goosebumps if you can't explain these things through evolution?

If god is omniscient then he knows the future and he knew from the start that one day he would be wiping out the majority of the human species save noah and his family; so why would god not just begin with noah and his family?

>>725265987
2/2
Why has god only ever appeared to such a small selective group of people, and why hasn't he appeared again since; especially considering the dwindling of faith across the globe that we are currently experiencing?

Why would god prioritize his own ego in his commandments detailing precisely how he should be worshiped above the commandments not to murder, or steal?

Why would god not include a commandment for parents to respect their children to go alongside the commandment for children to respect their parents?

Why would god allow satan to exist, if he can eliminate the devil and he doesn't want to then he has malicious intent, but if he can't eliminate the devil, then he's impotent, so which is it?

Why would god harden the heart of the pharaoh of the book of exodus, to then punish the pharaoh with plagues for having a hardened heart?

Why would god create a son to send to earth who's destined to be merciless tortured and brutally crucified in order to forgive the sin of man, when he could have just forgiven the sin of man?

>>725265987
>>725266032
Clearly the Lord works in mysterious ways.

>>725266261
imagine a kid named Steven. He’s from a rough part of the city, but he manages to stay out of trouble. He’s a good kid, a Christian from a Christian family. But one day, unfortunately, he accidentally wore the wrong color in the wrong neighborhood.
[Scenario #1: Gang drives by and fires at Steven, but he is unharmed. Steven goes home to his family.]
Every single bullet missed Steven. Obviously, God saved his life. It’s a miracle! God is good.
[Scenario #2: Gang drives by and fires at Steven, injuring him. He goes home to his family on crutches.]
Steven was struck in several places, but the bullets missed all his major organs! It’s a miracle! He’s gonna make a full recovery. God saved him. God is good.
[Scenario #3: Gang drives by and fires at Steven, critically injuring him. He goes home in a wheelchair.]
Steven has some lasting damage; his spinal cord was struck and he suffered some brain damage, but those wounds should have killed him! God saved his life, ’cause God has more plans for Steven. It’s a miracle he’s still alive. God is good.
[Scenario #4: Gang drives by and fires at Steven, killing him. His family mourns him at his funeral.]
Steven is in a better place now, a place where there’s no violence and no pain. He’s with God and he’ll be waiting for us up in Heaven. He has been called home. God is good.
It’s a cliché as old as religion itself: Good thing happens? God did it (because he’s good). Bad thing happens? God works in mysterious ways (and he’s still good). No matter befalls whom, it always ends up laid at Yahweh’s feet as a sign that he has some mysterious and supposedly benign plan for the entire universe, no matter how bizarre or convoluted the so-called reasoning behind it is. Not only is this annoying and delusional thinking, it’s also exasperating in how quickly it is applied to absolutely any given event by God-botters, No matter the outcome, people are conditioned to see God as the answer.

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This

>>725261547
Because god created the universe.

>>725266375
Clearly the Lord works in mysterious ways.

>>725265987
proof of evolution is not proof of the unexistence of a god

>>725266514
So you have a hypothesis? No evidence, but we should take your word as real? Prove to me he created the universe prove to me a being existed before time.

If you cant, all you are doing is creating a statement, not only without gravity. but without anything but a book that talks about an infallible god, written by fallible, corruptible human beings.
You parrot this god because you were brought up to believe it, or you derive comfort from it, or just feel as though it’s right. That isnt evidence, its an appeal to emotion. you dont have shit, you only have an untestable theory from a book containing ancient superstition.

>>725266886
Clearly the lord doesnt have any guidelines, clearly the mysterious ways are you trying to deconstruct the lack of logic a god who would create a species and then destroy it only to start again with a family. Clearly a god who thinks that starting a species through incest is a vastly all knowing life form. Or perhaps he doesnt work in mysterious ways, perhaps the ways which you call mysterious are instead the randomness of the worldplaying out without rhyme or reason. but instead you shut down conversation because you're unprovable imaginary friend claims to have a plan.

>>725267035
No, but it does show that god creating creatures through intelligent design is horseshit.

>>725259493
Nigglet did not pray jesus enough

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>>725266514
>created
couldn't the universe just exists?
you believe God just exists, so why not the Universe?

>>725267360
So, god isnt omnibenevolent, hes selectively benevolent?

>>725267046
>So you have a hypothesis? No evidence, but we should take your word as real? Prove to me he created the universe prove to me a being existed before time.

It's not possible to exist before time, if time was actually a real thing and not just a tool we use to quantify changes that happen.

>>725267229
God does whatever he wants. He's God, for God's sake.

Even if the bibles teaching is just misinterpreted changes to what might have happened you can't deny the potential existence of an omnipotent being who would exist in the future and if being omnipotent would exist know

>>725267046
Apparently someone doesn't understand the basic concept of faith. Of course we won't know. There are dozens of theories on how the earth was created. Hundreds of religions with different ideas on how the earth came to be. And until we invent time machines, we'll never know the truth. Why do you care which one I subscribe to?

Are you being a dick just to be a dick?

>>725267463
It specifically says he made it in the first chapter.

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>>725268017
The fact the you believe is irrelevant to me, regardless how childish I find it.
But when your religion Fucks with everyday life and holds back society, that's where I hate it.
Also all the free passes religion gets.

If humans progress and become more capable of doing things they never could before to point of transcending to omnipotence we would become God and it all comes full circle. We were made in God's image of man, we are god

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>>725268203l
Jesus dude, tone down the douchebaggery. I can smell your fedora sweat from here.

>holds back society
How?
>fucks with every day life
Maybe move to a non-religious nation? They seem to be doing much better.

>>725267638
Time is real, if it wasn't physics as a whole would be thrown out the window.

Well, then he isnt all knowing, he isnt omni-benevolent. he doesnt have a plan, he acts as random is what you are saying right? perhaps he doesnt do whatever he wants. perhaps everything happens at random because its random.

>>725268017
No, my problem is that as nature reclaims abandoned American homes, as our infrastructure crumbles, and our science standards fall behind. 4000 new tax exempt churches pop up in america every year. not for Santa, or the tooth fairy but for this so called god. There are hundreds of thousands of them outnumbering schools, restaurants, stores, museums etcetera. These churches fill my neighbors and friends heads with ideas and notions of god. A god who’s everywhere all at once. but despite this they have to go to the church to give him money. then they go knocking on my door with their supposed holy book, waking me up, every weekend. not to tell me about santa or the tooth fairy, but to tell me about god. At my door to tell me how “broken” or “unworthy” I am. if all this were done in the name of santa or the tooth fairy, might you have something to say about it? The book of this supposed god is the best selling book of all time. Not because people want to read it, but because it gets pushed upon everybody. laid atop every church seat, or stuffed in a hotel room drawer, given freely to children, or grasped in the sweaty grip of every preacher on the street corner with his blow horn waxing poetic about my impending torture. cont.

>>725268999
2/2
there it is written by people no different than you telling us how and what to believe. they aren’t talking about the Santa or the tooth fairy but if they were, might you have something to say about it? you say America was based upon christian values not santa or tooth fairy values, and few politicians are even considered electable without this obligatory “god bless america”. no different than it appears on countless billboards and bumper stickers, placating the masses all who need you to be like them, unlike santa. our lives are governed by these politicians whose policies are dictated by the “God believing” majority, not the “santa believing majority”. But if it were might you have something to say about it? Because these politicians profess to believe in the same just and good god as you, of course we would expect them to behave most ethically, but do they, of course not. contrary to that it's the non-believers who aren’t trusted, maybe that's because of the slander spread about us from self-proclaimed “fair and balanced news”, all the way to the book of romans the propaganda from ages past which they parrot, often without thought or empathy, or maybe it's because we dare to object against this supposed god. If this situation were reversed might you have something to say about it? to put it bluntly, i don’t talk about God because I know he exists; i talk about god because I know you exist.

I wouldnt have a problem with your religion, if it was a personal belief. instead you get theocrats who try to push religion in schools, and instill your idea on others. thats where i draw the line. im a secularist, yes, your beliefs are probably just fine but guess what? So are other people’s. So I will argue with you, but ill never tell you what to think, i just want that same courtesy extended to me.

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>>725268873
Lel you can call me the vapelord with my sick mods
>holds back society
Really, I need to explain this. Brainwashing children to ignore science, the scientific field gets fucked daily because muh beliefs
>Fucks with everyday life
Accurate, also "non religious " countries do great, Google bro

>>725268874
Physics is just a theory

>>725257156
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XEmn0uaQCYc

>>725269234
Science is really just belief

>>725269242
You keep using that word theory, but you clearly don't know what it means
Troll 2/10 made me respond

To choose to believe...

>>725269325
Back by evidence
Troll/10

>>725257931
1 You can't be born as a mentally ill fuckwit that goes against nature, that is conditioning.
2 Only jews believe the 7 days thing.
3 The universe is different from the old Jew book.

>>725268873
"holds back society"

by funding tax exempt buildings which instill faith instead of reality. By lobbying the education system to teach the alternative "intelligent design"
By saying ancient superstition is the same as testable and provable scientific advances. Now see the influence of a Christian God upon a constitutionally secular state. It holds back society by refusing to see the advances made since 2000 fucking years ago.

I live in a non-religious nation but that doesnt stop christian theocrats from trying to impose their personal political beliefs into law.

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>>725269407
Still a belief though. Science is all in your head.

>>725269242
That is very wrong.

>>725269545
see
>>725269522

>>725258792
These statements of huge numbers are such bullshit. The universe is fucking 13 billion years old, just like how 6 million jews died in the holocaust. OH FUCKING WAIT.

>>725257156
Wrong

Liberalism flys planes into sky scrapers

Those fucktards let those shit skins into the country.

KILL ALL LIBERALS!!!!!!

>>725269522
Dubs of a troll, or just your average brainwashed believer

>>725269522
You clearly dont realize that science is the most objective model of reality currently available. Beliefs are constantly challenged in science none are without criticism unlike your superstition. You dont realize that science isnt just a belief, science is a model science is testing the world we live in to come to logical and testable conclusions. it doesnt have any belief thats just made up on the spot, it has years of research, work, reworking, rehypothesizing, retesting, and that cycle until an objective truth can be found.

>>725269586
see
>>725269745

>>725269676
>>725269745
>model
>of reality

>>725267507
A large amount of niggers aren't religious, and many are Muslims because, well, the sand people are invading.

>>725269865
If you are so scientifically illetarate you dont know what science is, then im sorry. enjoy getting eaten by an alligator my Alabaman friend.

>>725269964
whats the point you are trying to make?

>>725269985
I don't live in Alabama. Not even in the USA.

And I know what science is.

>>725269234
>Brainwashing children to ignore science
No, religion does not fucking brainwash children. No child honestly believes the creation shit after around the time they reach age 10.
But, atheist education teaches being mentally ill (Homosexuality, Gender Fluidity bullshit) as normal, which is not.
>Non religious countries do great
Sweden, Germanistan, other shitholes that are being raided by sand niggers.

>>725269522
>Science is all in your head.
and in our computers, medicine, infrastructure, industries, OUR DAILY LIVES!

I can't use blind faith driving to work with eyes closed, I need to have my eyes open and make sound reasoning as I maneuver about.

>>725269745
Religion is often criticized, cunt.
Science, is indeed objective, but it does not disprove religion. If it did, religion would have died off by now.

>>725270286

if you are saying science isnt a ">model
>of reality" then you dont. if you are then congrats we dont have a problem and ill apologize for the ad hominem.

>>725270033
Your statement about god not being Benevolent towards all. That is not true, those that starve are niggers.

>>725257156
lol so edgy, bashing religion in the 21st century.

>thinks he's a hero like Galileo
>actually is just an unpaid shill

You don't need to be a genious to see through the obvious fairy tales in all religions. Even the friggin VATICAN acknowledges that, lol.
You idiots just provide an eager unreflected audience for the likes of Bill Maher/Neil d.G. Tyson/Richard Dawkins/the rest of the circlejerk.

Those charlatans depend on gullible idiots like you. Isn't it ironic bro? Your whole deal is that you don't fall for some middle-aged dudes' ideological agenda, yet that's exactly what's happening.

Only Americans could turn Atheism into a religion.

>>725270451
If science is objective, how come theories can be disproven?

>>725270299
Tons of people continue to believe the fairy tales for life.
Being atheist means you don't believe that's it.
Homosexuality is a normal that happens frequently in nature, get with the times. You've got the internet with all the information in the world, yet you stay ignorant.
Nice job picking two countries as an example.

>>725270450
Nah man, that's reality.

>>725270673
>get with the times
Don't say that.

>>725270451
You truly underestimate the power of human stupidity. Besides, religion makes it easier to keep stupid people from being unruly anyways

>>725270561
>>725270561
if this is a troll comment than 10/10 classic comedy.

If not, then im sorry to be the bearer of biology. black people are still people, biodiversity and taxonomic differences don't always correlate another species. Second, then please tell me about the white people who are currently enslaved in qatar? Or the jews who were blamed and killed for being responsible the bubonic plague? or the christians that died of the bubonic plague?

>>725270766
Ignore facts more it goes well with religion

>>725270867
>it's the current year
Yeah but that doesn't mean anything.

>>725270451
Never by those who subscribe to the religion they parrot. i think >>725270810 said it best "You truly underestimate the power of human stupidity." (thanks dude you are awesome by the wya) Science has also disproven the notion of vaccines causing autism, that doesnt stop people from parroting it as fact now does it?

>>725270986
Nigga wut

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>>725261000
>Atheism is a belief system

>>725270766
>>725271081
>get with the times
>aka be liberal
>renounce your faith
>because "it's 2017 come on guys :^D"

>>725257976
this

the actual cause of all conflict through the last 3 or four millennia has been regional differences in the definitions and interpretations of the three major religions (the abrahamites) and the purposeful subjugation of the followers of said religions by their corrupt (if not clinically insane) leaders.

as an anti-theist (not atheist, please don't insult me by getting it wrong) i support the dissolution of all religions, not because i see them as inherently evil, but because i see them as having been corrupted to the point where they present a clear and present danger to the advancement of humanity and a global threat to the future of the human race. they have become a tool of the propaganda machine, much like modern media outlets, and in that same vein they have established that their tenets are no longer viable in a common world view.

adherents to these three religions in particular, while often intelligent, lack any real in-depth knowledge of the depths of decadence that their beliefs instilled in the modern world; that the corruption, war-mongering, and economic and political destabilization of their countries is a direct result of the continued support of religious leaders whose global view does not extend beyond the coffers of their would-be governments, and whose sanity is no less questionable than that of a ruthless serial killer.

after 2000 years of conflict based in religious belief one would think that the world would have caught on to this and eschewed all religious thought. the only thing that truly stands in the way of global peace is the willful ignorance of otherwise intelligent people who will not let go of the image of the boogeyman that is religion, and the belief that there is a heaven and a hell, and that non-believers are infidels.

remove religion from the human equation and global peace and humanitarian advancement will become reality.

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>>725259666
shut up satan

>>725271258
Woah, I see the issue wit it and how you interpret it.
Fuck liberals, believe what you believe regardless that it's stone age thoughts
We'll it is 2017

>>725257156
There is no evidence against the raw notion of a deity, nor can there be, because the concept is too nebulous to be disproved.

For example, I subscribe to the Order of the Sacred Fawn. It's said that the Fawn sleeps in a forest somewhere. There's nothing special about her, except that she's actually the dream-self of another fawn, sleeping in a forest somewhere in a world beyond, and this world is her dream. Also, the version of her that sleeps in a forest in OUR plane of existence is ALSO dreaming, and in HER dream, she's ALSO sleeping in a forest somewhere. It's fawns all the way up and all the way down. We must not allow the Sacred Fawn to come to harm, because when mammals die in their dreams, they wake up--and besides, it's a cute widdle baby fawn and what kind of monster would even want to hurt it.

There's no evidence against my beliefs. There are ARGUMENTS against it, but they're all flawed. Examples:
>from whence cometh evil / rock he cannot lift / etc
The fawn is omnipotent and benevolent. However, in the form in which she appears unto us, she is not omnipotent; and in the form in which she IS omnipotent (the fawn sleeping in the beyond world), she's asleep, and can't consciously control her omnipotence. All evil is nightmares.
>the big bang
Dreams have to start, right? It's not like you go to sleep and they suddenly just exist. Obviously the singularity's SUPPOSEDLY probabilistic emergence from the quantum vacuum was actually a rift opening up; the space, time, and matter that poured out were the neurotransmitter dump that initiated the dream; and everything in the history of the universe that occured prior to the fawn's birth was the hippocampus being randomly activated by the dump as it would in a dream, but prior to the beginning of the fawn's actual dream experience.
>a god is unnecessary because the singularity emerged by chance
Yeah but it would be cool.

>>725271586
Nigga wut

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>>725271736

You cannot generalize all sort of spiritual belief.

I do understand that one would critize the mythological or traditional aspects of spiritual that have no relation to reason but are simply built upon the belief that this is what some higher spiritual wants us to do. I'm talking about stuff like Sharia law or even less serious stuff like circumcision.


But condemning all religion or all spiritual beliefs in general is not helping. Besides, I'm pretty sure there more effective ways to battle these "symptons" of a unreasonable society than to label them all as irrational.

I also wanna say that I think most people who fight for atheism on the internet are probably mostly doing so because it is an outlet to assert intellectual authority over others. But well, they probably only do so in order to deal with their percieved reality better, because they feel helpness in a world where they percieve so much negativity.

How about we fight to create a world where there has to be no more material survival? Or even better, how about we fight a world where there is no need for psychological survival either?

How? Well you can always start to take responsibility yourself. It starts with how you percieve reality. Do you really think that everything you percieve to be negative is truly that way? Or that you have to fight what you percieve to be negative by reacting to it in negative ways? Or when you are pissed of, or stressed out, how about you start to at least try to resolve that by yourself instead of stressing people around you out even more or if you really wanna take responsibility you could stop projecting your inner negativity onto your enviroment.


There is always a reason why a human being percieves the world to be a certain way. If we were to stop fighting other peoples perception and tried to understand each other we could find out what would make our collective reality better.

>>725271403
Zen Buddhism is pretty cool though.

Im not religeous but there is some good that can come from religion.

1. Religion is good at turning people good by giving them a second chance, especially christianity. From personal experience, ive known many drug addicts and criminals that have "found god" and now they are good people with families and kids and shit. At least better than what they were

2. Religion is good at helping the community. Church programs exist everywere feeding the homeless and running the orphanages and shit. Religion compels people to be morally righteous.

3. Religion is good for strengthening community bonds. Church communities are much happier and usualy much safer(excluding catholics and muslims) were nabors go out of their way to help eachother, common in the southwest US.

If you ask me religion (excluding islam) is a good thing for most groups of people. At least its better than how a typical atheist would describe it.

>>725271905
>I think most people who fight for atheism on the internet are probably mostly doing so because it is an outlet to assert intellectual authority over others

/r/atheism in a nutshell

>>725272050
I like the community aspects very much.

>>725272164
Well I don't see anything wrong with that

>>725272164
>I like the community aspects very much
The only real use of religion.

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Atheists nowdays are so damn angry

>>725272576
theists nowdays are so damn ignorant, i guess thats a constant though,

>>725272640
excuse you but i am a theist and i am not ignorant
(see: >>725271632 )

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>>725272640
Surely if we're reading we're not ignorant?

>>725272929
apparently ignorant of the burden of proof fallacy.

>>725272969
I could read the fuckin bearestein bears all day, wouldn't make me any more aware. You fucking thesists always think that "magic book" is somehow going to help you pray harder. FUCKING idiot...

>>725272969
just because you aren't illiterate doesn't make you intelligent.

>>725273163
People can be both theists and aware of the fallacy

>>725273205
>>725273214
See what I mean? Atheists nowadays are so damn angry. I could insult you too but I won't. It's alright guys.

>>725273339
yet you still use it at the beginning statement when you talk about there being no strong evidence against a deity.

>>725273339
it isnt an insult, the fact is the ability to use and read a written language has no correlation to iq beyond around 30 points.

>>725271905
I also wanna add that there may be spiritual systems in the future that you cannot compare with what we have today or what we had in the past.

You can label me anything you want me to because I say this but there is definetely scientific research that points into the direction that concsiousness is not just in a vacuum from the rest of the universe. Not just a biological sympton but some that is tangible to the universe, one of the forces in it. Just look at the double slit experiment for example. If a particle is being observed at one point in time it will act as if it is just one particle. If it is not being observed the sensors will recognize that it behaves like a wave.

Perhaps that should point us into the direction that our perception and our personal reality construct has an effect on the "metaphysical" manifestation of things. By that I mean that your perception will have an effect on something, like an idea for example because pour information onto that idea and then that will have an effect on how other people percieve this to be.

Even if none of that were true there are still some things that cannot be negated. Such as that humanities concsiousness is always going to control how humanity will manifest itself. And that the quality of life or our entire reality is vastly subjective, if not completly.

If humanity were to recognize that we could perhaps work out a standard to find out what truly is best, and that standard will be built upon how our percieved realities are like. No progress brings us anywhere if it doesn't make our realtiy more positive.
Yes of course, scientific progress can make our reality better. Being able to structure reality and make sense of the world can cause joy. Even a fascist state can make people happy because the idea of living in such a state satisfies them.

Gods were thought to be in the sky because ancient humans thought we'd never go there, and it gave everybody a false sense of security. To believe it now, after so much science has broken their "theory," is just ridiculous.

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>>725273440
That wasn't me

>>725273527
What? You just said I was dumb, how is that not an insult?

You can all be forgiven though, you need not panic.

>>725257156
Muslims* flew into skyscrapers.

>>725272000
it is
although buddhism is more about finding your place in the maelstrom that is the world by using a set of tools to achieve personal and psychological balance.

it's philosophy is that if one is balanced in his knowledge and beliefs, then one is at equilibrium with the universe, and basally, the world.

however, it is still a religion, in that it has it's leaders, and it's acolytes, and adherents. it too has been the basis of several conflicts during it's spread, and as such is really, basically, no different than any other belief system, be it abrahamic or otherwise.

we should be attempting to achieve that inner balance, i agree. but not as followers of others, and their beliefs, but rather as leaders and captains of our own destinies.

all religions are flawed, in that those who follow them have not achieved their inner balance, and are too mentally dulled to make the attempt to pursue it.

>>725273163
Not ignorant of it, I just disagree with its formulation. The burden of proof should only lie on the person making the less widely accepted of two opposite claims if those claims are the subject being debated. I don't have to prove my beliefs, because my specific beliefs are not being debated.

The claim being debated is OP's claim that there's evidence against religion in the general case. I disproved that claim by providing a religion against which there can be no evidence. I don't have to prove that religion is true, because OP didn't say it's not true, OP said it can be PROVEN not true.

Let's suppose you're OP. I'm not saying you are, but IF you are, here's how our conversation just went.
>"I have evidence that your religion is wrong."
>"No you don't."
>"Where's your evidence that your religion is right?"
If you don't see how that third line is a non sequitur, you have tunnel vision on this issue.

>>725272576
They are young.
Many come from religiouse families and resent religion because they were forced to endure it as a child. Theist parent don't take the news that their child is an athiest very well. And it creates lots of tencion in the family.

Our typical athiest will then seclude himself from the family and focus inward especialy at athiest media wich gives them the confirmation for their lack of belief that they don't get from their parents.

The result is an angry young man who resents religion. Is unhappy with his family life. And has memorised the little bit of reason needed to disprove te claims of 2000 year old books. The only outlet for him is the internet were he can call religion stupid.

>>725273650
when i say ignorant its ignorant to modern nuance instead deciding that ancient superstition is the right way to go not because proof exists, but because it hasnt been disproven.

I dont want to be forgiven by a creature that condones slavery, id rather have him hate me to be perfectky honest.

>>725273832
>when i say ignorant its ignorant to modern nuance instead deciding that ancient superstition is the right way to go not because proof exists, but because it hasnt been disproven.
see: >>725273775

>>725259367
>I'm not an adult

We know

>>725273722
I think you might be thinking of some other Buddhism

>>725257156
Islam crashes planes into buildings

>>725257156
Being a theist doesn't mean you subscribe to organized religion, it just means you believe there is a God.
My God fashioned the universe using math and sciences to construct the framework, then let it run. I don't think he believe in me much, but I'd imagine he checks out earth every now and again to see what we're doing and how far along we are.

>>725274542
How did he survive the crash?

>>725260077
What if you don't give a fuck

>>725274692
I like to think that fairies visit me every night and rub themselves against my penis, thus causing me morning wood. I don't think that they believe in me much, though.

>>725274823
There's another cool label for that - Apatheism

>>725273775
How about this: what reason do you have to believe your positive claim that a god exists?

How common is it for you to believe that something exists despite having no reason to do so?

Unicorns are real. You cant prove theyre not. Lol
Atheist- 0
Theist- 0
Me- 1

STFU I'm in church rn faggot

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>>725275143
*They're

>>725274395
i could very well be, there are as many buddhist sects as there are islamic and christian, and i really haven't really made any further investigations into the differences between those sects.

i presented a very basic view of buddhism, as i understood it from the information i had at hand. it's tenets are really not that different from those of other religions, other than the way in which it is followed, it's observances, and it's presentation to the world.

i merely stated what i know in a very general way, i have no time for in depth discussion and debate, nor the space (in this thread) to pursue a meaningful discussion about my possible misinterpretation or misrepresentation of the buddhist religion.

but as an anti-theist i still see it as a religion, though not as potentially threatening to humanity as others i've mentioned

>>725273788
Most atheists I know are just people who kind of found that religion was nonsense and dropped it from their lives.

Perhaps it's different in the US, because of the lack of laicism?

>>725275052
>How about this: what reason do you have to believe your positive claim that a god exists?
Sentimentality.

>How common is it for you to believe that something exists despite having no reason to do so?
This is the unique case of it.

By the way, you're not getting any closer to disproving my religion, which is what you originally explicitly said you were able to do. If you can't, I'm sorry, but you're wrong. Not about my religion being untrue; it's quite possible you're right about that. But you're wrong about your claim that you can PROVE it's not true.

Here's where you (or possibly someone else you're trying to defend) said you could disprove my religion: >>725257156
>If you're a Theist, you are either a fucking idiot or you just are ignorant and do not know of the evidence.
>the evidence
Well? I'm still waiting for this "evidence."

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In a nutshell.

>>725275398
I'm not the person you were arguing with.

Well, if you acknowledge that your belief is irrational, that's fine as far as that goes. I tend to believe that the Universe is deterministic, but I suspect that's because I don't know enough physics.

I don't make that part of politics, like religious people tend to do, though.

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Atheists in there natural habitat.

>>725257156
I can't believe these shitty bait threads still get as many replies today as they did ten years ago.

You dont need evidence that something doesnt exist. You need evidence that something does exist. You autistic neck beards need to use logic before I have to best all your asses

>>725275895
Lol. True

>>725275895
>there
>their
fixed that for ya

>>725275912
religion is a historical thorn. until somebody removes the source of the irritation it will always be a painful topic.
no matter how sensible the removal of that thorn would be, most people would rather not have it removed, in that life with the pain is more familiar than life without it.

and let's face it, most people would rather talk about their pain because it garners sympathy from others of like mind.

>>725257156
Thanks for insulting my parents, mate.

>>725275600
>I tend to believe that the Universe is deterministic, but I suspect that's because I don't know enough physics.
On a tangential note, that's actually a really fascinating subject. I believe I made some mention of it myself--on the subject of wave function collapse. Deterministic at the Newtonian scale, probabilistic at the quantum scale--so they say these days. I like to think of the properties of leptons as like water in a jar; there's not enough to fill up the whole thing, so if you tilt the jar, the water flows to one side. It's the same kind of thing, not enough informational stratum exists in the particle to contain all of its properties at once, that's why it's both particle-like and wave-like. You can "tilt the jar" by observing one property, but that drains the informational stratum from the other properties and makes them nondeterministic / "fuzzy." Like how if you know exactly where an electron is, that splits where it's going into multiple simultaneous states, and vice versa.

>I don't make that part of politics, like religious people tend to do, though.
Me neither. My dedication to social liberalism and economic conservatism has nothing to do with my religion. How could it even? What bearing could it possibly have on my political views that I like to think we're the dream of a sleeping fawn?

>>725276589
You sound gay.

>>725276313
If you want to make a claim, you need evidence for it. If you want to refute a claim, you need evidence against it.

If the claim is that God doesn't exist, and you want to refute it, you're an idiot, because there's no evidence for God.

If the claim is that there's PROOF that God doesn't exist, and you want to refute it, you've got it made, and whoever made that claim is an idiot instead.

The latter is the case in this thread, not the prior.

>>725276702
I am.

>>725276799
how about:

if there is no proof either way then what is the value in discussion of either side?

the entire argument is based in the inability of either side to provide irrefutable proof based on empirical evidence (although science is working hard to find out what the truth is).

it's a circle jerk. i just let it go at that, and go about my life. when somebody actually comes up with the truth i'll fit it into my view of the universe and move on.

>>725277417
>if there is no proof either way then what is the value in discussion of either side?
I would agree if OP's position were "God doesn't exist" and mine were "God exists." But that's not the case. That would be a fallacy of substituting beliefs for claims made. OP's position is "I can PROVE God doesn't exist," and my position is "no you can't," and neither of these statements is unfalsifiable.

>>725271403
I'm an atheist, and you're a piece of shit. Or you're a skillful troll (probably the former).

I thibk going too far in any belief without solidly verifiable and testable evidence is plain stupid. If religicunts believe there is some spirit guys out there why do they not try to utilize them for socioeconomic gain?
If god is all knowing, then surely he could help our knowledge of physics by explaining why our universe's particle effects are so low res.

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>>725277965
Don't call people pieces of shit, it makes you look like this guy.

>>725257156
science also sorta drops nukes on others.

>>725278279
Not if God's the Sacred Deer.
Trying to talk to her would be about as useful as trying to talk to any other deer

Also waking her up would kill an indeterminate number of innocent people in an inferior plane of existence. You want pixie blood on your hands?

>>725268874
Time is an illusion, a quantification we use to compare the relative motion of objects.

Most likely a 12 yearold that just discovered Atheism and wants to be rebellious against his parents

>>725257156
religion is just a jew scheme.
>churches get a fuck ton of donations and no taxes
>clearly telling you not to break the law or you go to hell

>>725278746
Why the fuck do all atheists define "religion" as Christianity?
>hey look i can disprove religion
>*concise disproof of Christianity*
>bam religion disproved
Um no, I think you forgot about like at least a hundred of them

>>725278746
>religion is just a jew scheme
I guess some of it is, like Judaism

>>725278947
oh my bad
religions are shit tier cults where they want their people to do whatever shit it says in their book

>>725278409
This is the life I have chosen.

>>725279075
Ok but what about the ones that aren't
like for example where they don't have books
or tell people to do things

>>725257931
hello tumblr

>>725259666
But there is, and it's me.
All yo mofackas better shape up and follow my demands or its fluffy hell for the lot of ye.

>>725257931
>1. People are born homosexual/transsexual. Not possessed by a demon
That's evidence against Christianity, not religion.
>2. the world wasn't made in 7 days LMAO
That's evidence against Christianity, not religion.
>3. The universe is very different from how the bible described it. So I don't know what the fuck you're saying.
That's evidence against Christianity, not religion.

You'll have to try a little harder if you want to disprove religion. Because right now you've only disproved Christianity

>>725259701
This is the argument i make to people who claim god helped them get healed.
Bitch if wasn't god of was the 24 hr staff of overworked and underpaid orderlies and nurses accompanied by an overpaid and even more overworked doctor, empowered with years of studying medicine that applied those techniques with modern technologies to heal you.

>>725278538
If their plane is inferior they would eventually be exterminated by our superior plane anyway.
Also deer are awesome, i used to spend hours meditating on local deer in the forest before i started haviblng to get eddicated and work.

>>725257156
The space race wasn't about science and a modern 747 requires more "science" (actually engineering) than a moon rocket.

You should at least change it to "Politics flies you to the moon."

Too bad you weren't aborted.

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we've never been to the moon.. Nasa has admitted we haven't been any farther than low Earth orbit. They have no idea how to get threw the Van Allen belts. There new space ship Orion might be the first but it's not finished yet.

>>725271403
Lmao nice try
>Mao-Tse-Tung, Atheist: 78 million plus dead
>Joseph Stalin, Atheist: 20 million plus dead
>Adolf Hitler, Atheist: 15 million dead
>Vladimir Lenin, Atheist: 5.5 million dead
>Kim-Il-Sung, Atheist: 5 million dead
>Pol Pot, Atheist: 2 million dead
>Fidel Castro, Atheist: 1 million dead

Atheist dictators killed millions of people over the past century, and caused more death in a much shorter time span than almost any other catastrophe that has happened in the civilized world.

>>725257156

"Overall, from the years 1901-2000, Christians (not Theists, that are even mroe) have won a total of 78.3% of all the Nobel Prizes in Peace, 72.5% in Chemistry, 65.3% in Physics, 62% in Medicine, 54% in Economics and 49.5% of all Literature awards"

Source: Shalev, 2003

:^)

>>725257739

My dog dose not like to eat apples that means pears are not fit for humans to eat.

>>725259574
Just thinking but what was before the big band and what created it for it to happen where did all this shit come from and how was it made from nothing.

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>>725282972
Nobody knows

>>725282212
Where are your morals now, atheists? How come you didn't win that peace prize?

>>725271403
If it isn't religion people would fight over land/resources/wealth whatever, don't be naive.
>>725272000
Whilst my favourite spiritual movement, they also kill people, again don't be naive.

>>725282386
what?

>>725283591
Stop making strawmen

>>725257931
1. No evidence of that, there is one study that had several flaws that said it, but yeah I doubt the reason is demons, most likely it's more about experiences i.e. molestation etc.
2. No it was made in less than a second, making your entire argument faulty.
3. The bible doesn't describe the universe at all, and we don't know all about the universe either, besides that's the bible, one religious book, you didn't say Christians you said Theists.

This is coming from an Agnostic Theist

>>725257817
go back to your trap threads then, 'cause you sure as hell don't post that there.

>>725282212
Obama got the Peace Prize as well, and all he did was lie to people saying that he was going to end one out of 4-5 wars that they were already in, instead he started an armed intervention, so the nobel peace prize is trash, mainly because of the norwegian cucks that give it out to retards.

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>>725269482
>Homosexuality is a mental illness
>You can't be born with a mental illness

>>725286091
The Nobel Peace Prize is a damn joke. It has lost all of its credibility a looong time ago. In the future, people probably will believe that Hitler won the NPP at some point.

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>>725286327
close enough to hitler. killed about as many people.

Christ-chan is too cute

>>725260077

Oh don't be a cunt.

When someone says they are agnostic in a modern sense they are saying they don't know what to believe.

You are using feminist logic you tard

>>725258332
do you believe that the Egyptians existed? Or the Romans or Greeks? Do you also believe that every fossil ever is fake?

>>725286091
Peace Prize = / = Science Prize

The fact is that the great majority of best scientists ever are Theists.

There's only two consequences in life. 1.) Other humans 2.) Nature

>>725257156
>you just are ignorant and do not know of the evidence
There is no evidence, that's why it's called Faith.