>>725028692 That I find a lot of their identities cringe worthy. It doesn't hurt me (which is why I don't say anything) but it does make me kek occasionally.
If I wasn't so fucking conscious about not being more of a special snowflake than I already am then I'd probably ID with a lot of that shit so it just gives me second-hand embarrassment when I see it being applied in real life.
>>725029311 I'm not entirely sure what you mean. Do you mean that SJWs have a different idea of what justice is?
>>725029458 As many as there needs to be. This is subjective. There are a relatively finite amount of sexes though. I don't have the exact number on hand but consider all of the different sex variables with intersex people and secondary sex characteristic, it's hard to know. But it's not infinite, only because there aren't an infinite amount of people.
>>725027919 >do you value the label "SJW"? >if yes, why? >do you enjoy being defined by self applied labels? >are you still an individual or have you surrendered your identity to the hive mind? >do you have any original thoughts or just regurgitation of garbage you've already heard from other "SJW's"?
>>725029664 We already have the word Justice, adding a modifier to it makes it different justice and yes i do mean that SJWS have a different idea of Justice. Justice to SJW is anything that suits the leftist agenda, such as white privilege etc, pushing feminism etc, BLM. Everything you stand for is utter bullshit. White privilege doesn't exist, more white people are killed by cops than black people, 13% of the population is responsible for 50% of murder in the US. There are only two genders. This whole you can be whatever you want is utter bullshit. Your chromozones determine whether you are male or female not your brain or the way you think. To quote Ben Shapiro, facts don't care about your feelings.
>>725030095 In western culture that is the case deemed by most people but other non-western culture acknowledge third genders as a normal thing, like India(?) where they have males, females and a third type who are typically penis-having people that are androgynous or feminine and it's legally recognized as a third gender. As well as Native American culture, they have "two-spirit" people that are born as whatever and defy that binary norm.
>>725030261 I don't usually go around saying I'm an SJW. It gets a bad rap, just like the word feminist. But I am a feminist and I guess I consider it the same thing. We have our shitty horrible radicals just like every group of people and I acknowledge that they are shitty, but that doesn't devalue the cause/movement/identity.
Because I have BPD I do enjoy self applied labels. It allows me to explain myself better, I think. I like to think I'm still an individual but it's nice having a community that usually understands you.
Once again, I like to think I have original thoughts. My definition of feminism is trying to eradicate the idea that having "feminise" traits are inherently negative. But I am also willing to admit that I can be swayed to believing a certain thing if I think it's logical and not hurting anybody.
Normal person will have same gender for these 3 levels.
If you are 45 XO, you are not "unicorn b22.5", you are female with turner syndrome.
If you are 46 XY, you are male and you can't change that. No matter what anyone tells you or how many operations you have. You can chop your dick off and change your fenotypic characteristics but every cell of your body has XY written in it.
>>725030310 Intersex people do fall under a certain binary but many intersex people already identify as trans or non-binary anyway. I guess some people (like myself) don't like to think as being stuck between things. A binary is restricting, even if you fall in the middle of it, because it implies that you must be 30% masculine and 70% feminine or whatever, or be EXACTLY in the middle of that. One may dress very feminine but their personality may be very masculine, so where do they fall on that binary?
I guess gender and gender identity have a distinction but the issue that may people come across is that "identity", to a lot of people implies that it isn't real. Like, as an example, Anon is my "preferred" name and blah/blah/blah are my "preferred" pronouns.
I guess most trans people want their identities to be more solid than "this is what I prefer but THIS is what I REALLY am" because it can get thrown back in their face.
>>725030346 I don't have any real facts about your opinions on feminism and BLM and all that jazz, but I'm an Indigenous Australian so I can give you this fact about "white privilege" at least here in Australia.
Us Indigenous folk make up a MAXIMUM of 3% of the total population but we make up 25% of people incarcerated. That's so statistically ridiculous. And it happens because we are targeted more by police, are killed more often by police, and we have issues with alcohol because our bodies literally have not evolved to fight addiction properly. We've been exposed to it for like 250 years, Europeans that brought it over had been exposed to it for WAY longer than that.
Also, for memory I'm pretty sure there are 42 chromosomal variations. Many people go through life not even knowing that they're intersex because who the fuck just goes out for a chromosome check? I'm tempted to get one because my breasts have developed weirdly, I have an abnormally large clit and ever since I hit puberty my testosterone levels have been through the roof.
>>725031515 >look at these undeveloped cultures where they also believe in several gods and mental illness is a posession from evil.
> I have BPD No, you did an online test for BPD that granted you that undiagnosed title. I am a sociopathic narcissist with bipolar, avoidant personality disorder and strong paranoia if internet tests have anything to say about it.
>>725031876 I don't know much about intersex but I feel that biological sex is ultimately defined by its role in reproduction. Falling outside of that binary by way of mutation isn't a sex. Being uncomfortable with the fact that nature doesn't care about you doesn't change that either. Nor does it entitle you to change language and science with little more than anecdotal evidence.
Identity is never solid and never will be. Letting our bodies define us is a zero sum game.
>>725030406 I do get off to some porn but it does make me feel guilty since I'm super into BDSM and rough stuff and even some rape scenarios, and sometimes I can't tell whether a scene is consensual or not.
Fucking Machines is probably my ultimate kind of porn because it's female-pleasure focused, and you KNOW it's consensual. And also I would fucking love to get rammed by a mechanical dick some day. I just wish I was more attracted to women so I could get off to them getting off instead of just fantasising about me being in that position.
Also fucking hate Trump but my partner is super conspiracy theorist and said Hilary would have been no better. I'm an ausfag so it concerns me for the people over there who have to deal with it but I guess I just try to detatch.
>>725032364 >And it happens because we are targeted more by police,
Bullshit. Police do not force you to commit crimes. I bet you also think black neighborhoods are crime ridden because of white people. If only the cops weren't patrolling your neighborhood, forcing you to rob each other. Oh, wait, it's all becos the wite man make you poor! Fucking wite man not lettin you go to school and get a engineeering degree!
>>725032674 Don't beat yourself up for your preferences. One of the good and healthy things about /b/ (and /r9k/) is that there aretwo places where you can still express negative feelings about women (and *anyone* else, in case you want to label thoese places misogynist cesspools). Once those feelings are out in the open, you can deal with them. I think the traditional SJW approach of disavowing negative feelings does not work and actually makes those feelings fester, where they are then transferred onto people with different worldviews,
Start by avknowledging that *you* are a piece of shit, then make a determinedeffort not to act like one. I don't care if you identify as an SJW. I don't hate you. There are parts of myself that I hate, but I'm working on it.
>>725031229 Less hunger and homelessness, less government-sanctioned violence. Other than that, I think we're getting there.
>>725032215 If they truly identify as women, then yes. I'm not one to police people's identities, especially since there has literally never been some pervert pretending to be trans to see some tits. Not to mention most pre-op trans women feel too scared to use public showers and toilets for fear of violence. In fact, burst bladders are unusually common among trans people because we're so terrified of using public restrooms that we just hold it in for fucking ever.
I honestly can't and don't want to comment on issues that I have no voice in. African American issues and Indigenous Australian issues are different. I do believe white privilege is a thing but exactly to what extent, I'm not sure. I can only confidently comment on what I know and have experienced.
However because of the stolen generation and separation of families and lack of prior education, we have really big issues in the community with just finishing year 12. A (kind of) distant cousin of mine that I met in high school was the first person in his immediate family to EVER finish high school. Collectively, the younger generations of Indigenous folk are picking up the pieces, breaking the cycle and getting our shit together and I'm very proud to say that I'm going to a "adult learning facility" so that I can complete year 12 and encourage my siblings and cousins to get an education.
>>725033551 >If they truly identify as women, then yes How do you know what someone else is truly feeling? What about the feelings of all the girls in the shower? Would you take a shower with a strange guy?
>there has literally never been some pervert pretending to be trans to see some tits
Is that why it's ok? Will it be ok until that happens and then it won't be ok any more? How will you know if a guy is pretending? Also there has been an instance where a guy went into a unisex shower and videotaped girls showering; do you really think that won't happen when guys are allowed into girls showers all around the country? I mean really? You just can't be that dumb.
>>725033551 >there has literally never been some pervert pretending to be trans to see some tits http://www.nbclosangeles.com/news/local/Secret-Recording-Store-Mall-Antelope-Valley-Palmdale-Restroom-207541101.html
Well, if it's a normal goddamn shower and not some weird communal prison thing then presumably no one is going to notice that a pre-op trans woman have a penis and no/small breasts. Realistically none of the other cis girls would know there's a trans person in there, so it shouldn't matter. And if they DO somehow fucking notice and get freaked out because "omg secretly a man was in here all along" then what are they actually afraid of? Are they afraid a trans woman is going to rape them right there in a public shower? Are they afraid the trans woman would be secretly perving on them? In which case, should lesbians be banned from womans spaces? Too much speculation and not enough acceptance that trans women are women.
Also, unisex toilets are a different kettle of fish altogether. If you KNOW that you are sharing a bathroom that by DEFINITION is allowing EVERYONE IN, then maybe don't get fucking naked in there??? Once again, what about gay women and men? Should they be banned from toilets and showers because they could commit exactly the same acts that you're talking about trans people committing.
We don't keep all adults away from schools because theres the possibility that a pedophile could be around. Because that would be dumb and stupid. If someone commits a crime, we deal with that person, we don't subject the rest of the people like them to be embarrassed and harassed and being denied use of a goddamn bathroom.
>>725035694 >Well, if it's a normal goddamn shower and not some weird communal prison thing then presumably no one is going to notice that a pre-op trans woman have a penis and no/small breasts. Realistically none of the other cis girls would know there's a trans person in there, so it shouldn't matter. And if they DO somehow fucking notice and get freaked out because "omg secretly a man was in here all along" then what are they actually afraid of? Are they afraid a trans woman is going to rape them right there in a public shower? Are they afraid the trans woman would be secretly perving on them? In which case, should lesbians be banned from womans spaces? Too much speculation and not enough acceptance that trans women are women. This did not address >>725035353 at all. It has already happened. This is not speculation, it is news.
>>725035031 >>725035146 I've said it before and i'll say it again, I don't know enough about American politics and issues to make any real statements about these issues.
I like to make clean, well formed arguments and considering the fact that I'm not American and I have no experience with American issues and it's gonna take more research than this thread is up for to make any kind of claims.
>>725035741 I suppose the difference stems from there not being much legal justice for victims of certain crimes or kinds of abuse. So many rape victims go without justice, there's very little legal protection for gender and sexually diverse people. Even though it's "technically" illegal in a lot of place for someone to be fired on the grounds of sexual or gender identity many employers and business will find loopholes just to fuck us queer folk over.
People with not-so-pretty mental health issues (personality disorder, psychotic people, people who are generalized as being "dangerous" when they aren't) are very much mistreated in the mental health system, by the government, by society in general.
There are a lot of people that go through trauma and face abuse and get little to no legal or social justice for it.
I suppose the need for SOME sort of justice for people who have been victimized in these ways, if it's sticking up for rape survivors, trying to educate people about trans people and mental illness, I think that's where it comes from.
Whether the movement has helped fill that gap or not is up to interpretation.
>>725036564 >People with not-so-pretty mental health issues (personality disorder, psychotic people, people who are generalized as being "dangerous" when they aren't) are very much mistreated in the mental health system, by the government, by society in general.
What do you do with broken minds? We tried locking them up in the US, but as it turns out, abusive shitheads love to get jobs where mentally unsound people are kept locked up all day, and immoral doctors love to tinker with their pets.
So they are mostly on the street today. Living as the indigent homeless. Frightening, and unloved.
>>725035857 >We don't keep all adults away from schools because theres the possibility that a pedophile could be around. Because that would be dumb and stupid. If someone commits a crime, we deal with that person, we don't subject the rest of the people like them to be embarrassed and harassed and being denied use of a goddamn bathroom.
Funny that you didn't read that part, because that part was specifically for you. And also, fuck that guy. He's a gross pig. Why are you demonizing an entire group of people and lumping them into the same category as this pervert? Once again, should we ban gay people for using gendered facilities? They could pull that shit off even more easily.
>>725035872 it's subjective. But you don't get to control other peoples identities either.
>>725035882 There isn't much I can say about this other than I'm not sure you understand how addiction, specifically community-based addiction works, and you don't understand what Indigenous communities are like.
>>725036499 You asked an open question. Don't expect a fucking answer within two second. I'm trying to think this shit out and be literate.
>>725037054 >Why are you demonizing an entire group of people and lumping them into the same category as this pervert? I am not doing that. I'm saying that people who are not trans can abuse the law incredibly easily. Also, I ignored that part because it's a false equivalency.
>>725035694 >If you KNOW that you are sharing a bathroom that by DEFINITION is allowing EVERYONE IN, then maybe don't get fucking naked in there?
If you are allowing men who feel like women into the women's shower you are by definition allowing everyone into the women's shower because there is absolutely no way to know what someone is truly feeling. Where do you get off putting the feelings and rights of a tiny amount of transgender people above the feelings and rights of women? Where are women who don't like to get naked in front of strange men supposed to go?
And why are you arguing that women wouldn't know they are showering with a trans man? Are pre op men with a dick hanging between their legs not trans gender? Are they excluded from your little utopia? How much surgery qualifies you as transgender?
This may surprise you, but it would be extremely difficult for a transgender man with any amount of surgeries to pass off as a legit woman when naked. What liberals are saying is that women should just fucking shut the fuck up about their feelings and deal with it because transgenders are higher up on the food chain.
>>725037054 >>>725035882 (You) >There isn't much I can say about this other than I'm not sure you understand how addiction, specifically community-based addiction works, and you don't understand what Indigenous communities are like.
Probably boring as shit, peer pressure to drink and a lot of dummies that think its fine and they can handle it that end up a huge drain on everyone else.
Seriously, though. Just don't fucking do it. Excusing it off as a lack of understanding is like a fat bitch that won't stop eating 3000 calories a fucking meal blaming genetics.
> I suppose the genetics might make you too stupid, self-centered and weak willed to avoid things that hurt you
>>725035694 >We don't keep all adults away from schools because theres the possibility that a pedophile could be around.
Yes we fucking do. A man can not just walk into a school and use the bathroom. Especially when the kids are being let out of school and are using the bathrooms. There is a lot of security at schools. It's not because the kids are criminals.
>>725036766 Which is EXACTLY why there needs to be more support for these people, if not from the government but from their communities!
If you want to help these people then you can always donate to smaller charities that are BY mentally ill people, FOR mentally ill people. I have seen more success from smaller, more open communities online supporting each other than I have from big companies run by asshole that don't actually care, or because of a lack of government funding, are very restricted to giving mentally ill people what they need in order to survive.
>>725037204 Yes, it could be abused very easily. There are loopholes to every law. However if you're focused on weeding out the perverts, I can tell you that trans people are not where you should be starting. If a cis woman got caught doing exactly the same thing that guy did, in exactly the same way (aka, not being suspicious because he looked like a man, but because a woman noticed the red recording light and reported it) then you would have this one situation to fall back on. Literally anyone can be a perv. But subjecting trans people to more humiliation isn't going to solve the problem. If someone is going to perv, they don't give a shit about the law, they're going to find a way.
Gender terms are for other people to describe you. Whatever bullshit is in your head doesn't fucking matter.
I thought personal pronouns were a fucking joke someone made up. We use pronouns to describe other humans to each other. Whatever you think is irrelevant. If you've got a Y chromosome, a dick and not tits, people will describe you as "he". Getting offended at this is just inventing problems where there are none.
It's not our fault you feel uncomfortable in your own skin. Don't get mad when we don't want to play pretend with you.
That said, it's not the trans people that will cause problems. Go search on google for guys caught in womens restrooms. Hundreds and thousands of results will bubble up with autists, retards and perverts trying everything they can to see a little snatch on the women and girls around them.
/They/ are who people don't want waltzing into the bathrooms with you guys backing them up because they claim their wieners are awful vagina-y today.
>>725037783 >humiliation How is using the "wrong" bathroom humiliation? I've used women's bathrooms on several occasions and never felt anything like that. Before you say that I feel differently than they do for obvious reasons, and that I'm allowed to use the one that matches my perceived gender, etc. let me remind you that the fact that I as a cis man can use a women's bathroom without people giving a shit means that trans people can do the same.
>>725037457 I'm not here to police peoples identities. The REAL question is WHY are women afraid of transwomen? When you can answer that for me, then we can have an actual conversation.
Because at this point you're essentially just saying "cis women should be allowed to be transphobic"
And trust me, I am PERFECTLY aware of how well some people pass and some people don't.
I have many trans friends that are pre op and would 100% pass in a female setting. I'm not sure if YOU know this but typically women tend to cover their chest area, all the way down to their thighs when wrapped in a towel. So once again, unless everyone is totally fucking naked, there are MANY pre-op trans women that would fit in just fine in female bathrooms.
You don't have to have ANY surgeries to "qualify" as transgender. But once again, I'm not the fucking identity police.
So when you get back to me on why cis women would be SO TERRIFIED of having a trans woman in a womans space, then we'll talk.
>>725037747 Idk about your schools, but here in Australia you can walk into a public school, walk into the office, get a little visitor sticker without any background checks and pretty much go wherever you want. If you've got little Johnny running down the hallway and the visitor is a pedophile, too fucking bad.
>>725031515 See its shit because it's a movement, you guys have no leader or spear head, anyone can join. All of your views are so all over the place that no one even knows what feminism or sj even stands for anymore. You just say some random ass problem is a problem and don't do anything about it. Then we see people who also say they are part of that movement and try to argue that point. No one knows what you people want
Because regular dudes harass and fuck with women their whole fucking lives. Constant fucking comments, offers, demands and obsessive compulsive targeting, and now a dude is allowed access to a private space just because he claims to feel awfully like a lady today?
>>725038013 >That said, it's not the trans people that will cause problems
It doesn't matter who causes the problem. Letting men into women's facilities opens the door to these problems. They are predictable and unavoidable. SJW's are just so fucking retarded that they can't see past the boner they get standing up for the poor victims to see the damage their retarded policies create.
>>725038013 you're clearly new to the whole "gender dysphoria is a literal diagnosed mental illness that can take therapy, self acceptance and in some cases extensive surgeries to cure"
>>725038210 Because bathrooms are some of the most gendered areas we encounter in our lives and when you are presenting as and identifying completely as a certain gender, being forced out of that and basically having to "out" yourself as trans or piss yourself in public, that's humiliating.
Although I do agree that unisex bathrooms are really god-tier. I ALWAYS use a unisex bathroom if one is there. Helps that I need to use a cane too so disabled toilets are an option too.
>>725038658 Overall it's based around being open to feel the way you feel and self acceptance. Whether that identity-based or other people recognizing that you've gone through trauma when others dismiss you, that kinda stuff.
this is all based on the idea that because some of them have penises, trans women are really men. Which is not the case.
Eradicating transphobia means safe spaces for both cis and trans women because trans women will be accepted and not get the shit kicked out of them for being a faggot in the mens bathroom AND cis women will no longer see trans women as men and thus will know that they are safe.
someone explain this to me... trans can't use the right bathroom because they make women feel uncomfortable, despite the fact that they're NOT more likely to commit a crime in the bathroom right? they just make women uncomfortable. Black people make ME uncomfortable, for the actually statistically true reason they ARE more likely than a non-black person to commit a violent crime against me. why does their right to not have to use a blacks-only bathroom, like they did earlier this century, supersede my right to be more safe and less uncomfortable?
>>725039442 natural balance disorder used to go to school near a really busy main road, 4 lanes, shit loads of trucks lost my balance several times nearly falling into oncoming traffic. turns out I have bouts of straight up not being able to walk in a straight line.
>>725039495 I said pretty early on I prefer feminist over SJW but I figured being that blunt about it would probably catch some attention
>>725039525 So you're proving my point, if no one cares if you use the 'wrong" bathroom then why is it such a bad thing for trans people to want to use the bathroom they want to use? If a dude can just walk willy nilly into a womans restroom then can he not also just fucking film people in there without the need for a dress or a wig? you're unravelling your own argument.
>>725038398 >The REAL question is WHY are women afraid of transwomen? When you can answer that for me, then we can have an actual conversation.
The question is not why they are afraid of transwomen, but why they are afraid of men. These are not unicorns born in rainbows we are talking about. These are men who claim they feel they should be women.
Why should women have to justify their feelings to you? Why are their feelings less valuable or right than someone whos feelings contradict reality?
The truth is that framed in a different context you would go ape shit if you heard a guy was in the women's shower. If you were taking a shower and a guy walked in on you I bet you would scream like a banshee.
Let's step away from trans people for a second, why should men be allowed in womens bathrooms?
Men and transsexuals are indistinguishable except that one thinks they are a woman. Do you understand that?
>>725039100 >>>725038820 (You) >yes, the macho alpha jackasses that actually behave that way towards women would definitely be cool with slapping on a dress and saying they were a lady. >that's not how things work.
If you think it's only "macho guys" that do this, you don't have a single idea what the fuck you're talking about.
Do you even know any women?
>>725039330 > you're clearly new to the whole "gender dysphoria is a literal diagnosed mental illness that can take therapy, self acceptance and in some cases extensive surgeries to cure"
Nah. I'm aware of it. And you know what, I'm sure it's a really hard state to go through. But we don't use gendered pronouns to let people know what other people think about themselves. We use them to describe what they appear as.
The human race is complex, and there are people outside the bounds of normality. Cool.
It doesn't create an onus on the rest of us to care.
I'm not going to "say Cindy the thin woman" because some 500lbs hamplanet self identifies as thin-kin.
>>725039330 > this is all based on the idea that because some of them have penises, trans women are really men. Which is not the case.
"Man" is a term we use to communicate an idea about a person. That idea is "human with a penis". If you have a penis, it applies to you. Wanting the whole god damned world to change how it uses language because you'd preferred to have had a vagina, or nothing, or six penises with little vaginas on the end, a bunch of self-entitled bullshit.
Your self image, even if driven by purely biological reasons outside your control, is still an internal factor that the rest of us have no reason to support.
You don't seem to understand the difference between introspection and recognition of the real, and want to force adherence to introspection and punish people that insist on adhering to reality.
>>725040278 >If you think it's only "macho guys" that do this, you don't have a single idea what the fuck you're talking about. >Do you even know any women?
then you've defined 'harassing and fucking with' so loosely that it's wholly disconnected from anything in the realm the ought to be regulated at gunpoint by the government and whether it has anything to do with who uses what facility.
>>725040592 >It's better for the ten people in ten thousand with these mental issues to suffer the misfortunes of their biology than to force everyone else to adhere to it.
then why isn't it better for the small minority of black people to have to use separate facilities?
it has nothing to do with pretending. no one is saying everyone has to agree that these people really are men/women, just that, like being black, it's not something that justifies discrimination.
also, transmen being forced to use the ladies room will cause FAR more panic and chaos than transwomen using the ladies room. or do you want to argue that only transwomen can be forced to use the facilities of their genitalia and not transmen?
>>725038820 >Because regular dudes harass and fuck with women their whole fucking lives. Constant fucking comments, offers, demands and obsessive compulsive targeting what the fuck fantasy world do you live in
and your contention is that if not for the sign on the door these people would dress up as women to go into bathroom and start harassing women there? there's lots of places that allow trans to use which facility they want; other places in the world have straight up unisex bathrooms (that aren't single-occupancy)... men pretending to be women to get in remains exceptionally rare, as does inappropriate harassment.
do you really think that if a man was clearly faking it and behaving inappropriately, that a policy allowing legitimate trans people to use the facility of their identity would shield them from being ejected and banned from the venue, or arrested if it their behavior was illegal? that's not how things work.
I don't even really care about this shit. It just annoys me that people like you have no respect for so many.
> it's basically racism
Not really. The human race is fairly split between man and woman. The two groups have long had different cultures that intermingle and remain separate.
There are a vanishingly small number of people that don't fit this mold. And the vast majority of these are just people that for whatever reason, be it wishful thinking or accident of biology, wish they were in the other group.
Not understanding what about this makes people uncomfortable and having a standard response to concern be "you're basically racist and discriminatory and you should just feel bad and shut up" isn't a good position.
>we don't use gendered pronouns to let people know what other people think about themselves. We use them to describe what they appear as.
If you ever correct yourself and apologize to someone when you thought there were a man but actually a woman because of their haircut or their figure or whatever then there is literally NO reason why you couldn't do that for a trans person.
>Your self image, even if driven by purely biological reasons outside your control, is still an internal factor that the rest of us have no reason to support.
cool, then fuck literally everyone with depression or anxiety or eating disorders or literally any other illness that contributes to low self esteem. also fuck disabled people who need mobility aids who feel unlovable because who would ever find someone in a wheelchair sexy?
if you pick and choose through that shit then youre a cunt.
>>725041310 >I don't even really care about this shit. It just annoys me that people like you have no respect for so many.
well it annoys me even more that you think exceptionally rare events and bad feelz justify forcing a group of people to be exposed to a real risk of violence (transwomen in the mens room).
Not understanding what about this makes people uncomfortable and having a standard response to concern be "you're basically racist and discriminatory and you should just feel bad and shut up" isn't a good position.
I do understand why they're uncomfortable. But it's not reality-based, it doesn't justify the downsides, it's definitely not acceptable to only single out transwomen and not transmen (who would make women FAR more uncomfortable then transwomen), and you're right it's not just like race, because black people are more likely to commit and violent crime, so why does forcing me to share a bathroom with them not violate my rights?
>>725040832 >Skin color = gender Nice lack of an argument. Society should not be at the whims of a small minority. Next you'll need a restroom for all the other 150 "genders". And if you're wondering if society has the right to shun you for your degenerate mental illness, yes they do.
Nice lack of an actual rebuttal. Remember, black people are a small minority too. You haven't addressed why their right to not be forced into a colored's bathroom is more important than my right to not have to share a bathroom with a small minority that in addition to making me uncomfortable, actually ARE more likely to hurt me.
I shouldn't be answering anything, the tittle of this thread is I'm an SJW ask me why I'm stupid.
But unlike you I can back up my beliefs. So for the first one. 1st. there is not a statistic that says black men assault white men or that black women assault white women at a higher rate in the bathroom than outside the bathroom. 2nd I support separate but equal. It is SJW's that claim we're are all indistinguishable except for pigment, which is wrong but for another thread.
So it is a false comparison to say that separating white and black is the same as separating men and women. There is a much higher chance of sexual assault in the latter.
And it doesn't matter if transgender commit crimes at the same rate, a higher rate, or a lower rate. If you are allowing transgender into womens bathrooms you are allowing all men into womens bathrooms. The idea that you can have a law just for people who feel a certain way is pants on head retarded.
For the second one, It doesn't matter if trans cause problems. The argument has never been that trans are all going to go in there and cause problems. I will go in there and watch the young girls changing and showering and when someone has a problem with that I will just cry like the rest of you faggots and ill be untouchable. That is the world you are fighting to usher in. I don't want my daughter to live in that world, but if you fucks succeed in bringing it to fruition I will not pass up that opportunity.
Use the bathroom according to your equipment. If you cut your dick off you get to use the womens facilities. You deserve it for your sacrifice. The laws should remain the same. All new construction should include a third facility for unisex.
If describing you as you are rather than as you would like to be makes me a cunt, so be it. I'm a fucking cunt.
> yeah, I used to be one.
And you're telling me it was only brodudes that ever got weird on you?
> cool, then fuck literally everyone with depression or anxiety or eating disorders or literally any other illness that contributes to low self esteem. also fuck disabled people who need mobility aids who feel unlovable because who would ever find someone in a wheelchair sexy?
It's not my job to pretend the depressed are happy, the anxious are confident, the fat are thin, that those with low self esteem are paragons of self love, or that the disabled are as abled as the rest of us
It's my job to help these people where I can, and to give aid were I can. But being dicey with language doesn't help these people. Antidepressants and therapy helps the depressed, befriending people and creating safe ways of exposing them slowly to situations that makes them anxious helps them, getting fat people to exercise and eat less helps them, building people up so they love themselves for hard work and accomplishment helps those with low self esteem, and giving assistance to the disabled, building prosthetics for amputees and helping them helps the fucking disabled.
Telling them they're all just perfect as they are doesn't help anyone.
I don't want these people to see themselves as broken, or whatever. I want them to fucking excel in all they do.
You're too stuck on the labels, man. Be you, excel and fucking thrive.
We need language to describe things. But there is no compunction to be defined by that language
>>725042293 >There is a much higher chance of sexual assault in the latter.
No, there is not an increased chance of sexual assault in facilities that allow trans people to use their facility of their appearance.
>there is not a statistic that says black men assault white men or that black women assault white women at a higher rate in the bathroom than outside the bathroom
there's not a statistic that says men are more likely to assault a women in a bathroom than outside one either, never mind transwomen doing so
>So it is a false comparison to say that separating white and black is the same as separating men and women.
You're right, the former is actually based on the reality that black men are in fact more likely to commit a violent crime.
>>725042293 >If you are allowing transgender into womens bathrooms you are allowing all men into womens bathrooms. The idea that you can have a law just for people who feel a certain way is pants on head retarded.
No, you don't. See: the large number of places that already DO have a policy that doesn't require that.
>>725042293 >Use the bathroom according to your equipment. >>725042293 >I don't want my daughter to live in that world, but if you fucks succeed in bringing it to fruition I will not pass up that opportunity.
You'd really be ok with your daughter walking into the bathroom and seeing someone that looks like Buck Angel?? No, you wouldn't, and don't even fucking lie. If you saw a transman in the womens room, you'd be quite upset.
>>725042208 >12% of the population is a small minority Yeah, go fuck yourself.
>You haven't addressed why their right to not be forced into a colored's bathroom is more important than my right to not have to share a bathroom with a small minority that in addition to making me uncomfortable, actually ARE more likely to hurt me.
Because, among black people, you get male and female. Bathrooms are segregated into biological sex, not skin color.
> my right to not have to share a bathroom with a small minority that in addition to making me uncomfortable, actually ARE more likely to hurt me.
>ME, ME, ME, ME, WHY CAN'T I
Because your presence is disgusting to normal people. Black and white. You make us uncomfortable and you're more likely to hurt us. You're all mentally unstable and should be locked up in an asylum before you eventually have a break down and hurt someone.
>>725041848 >i've never met a single person from the islam faith who thought my being queer was a problem.
The bubble is real. When SJWs protest for Muslims they are not exclusively protesting for the kind neighbor who never said anything bad to their face. They are protesting for the hundreds of millions who would kill them on principal. They are just too stupid to realize it. The internet exists, news exists, and yet SJWs are so retarded they can't see the world for what it is. Pro tip, it doesn't actually end at the end of your bubble.
I still haven't seen a single person acknowledge that enforcing this 'bathroom by genitals' thing wouldn't make women freak the fuck out when a transman walks into the womens room.
If transmen still have to use the womens room, THEN you're really inviting all men to use the women's room, because transmen are far more passable as men than transwomen, so you really couldn't tell the difference. If a big burly looking dude says "but I'm really a female so I have to use this bathroom", what the fuck are you going to do? Making him prove he has a vagina? Enforce ID checks? Well ID checks wouldn't work, because if men will pretend to be trans, surely the lesser fake ID use would be on the table.
>>725043940 One person acknowledged it and it was totally dismissed.
>>725042537 ....n-no?? that is the dumbest fucking logic? I know NO feminist or SJW that would ever fucking do that??? The point is that the dying one is dying anyway, not shooting that person would mean prolonging their suffering, which is exactly what SJWs don't want to do, is prolong anyones suffering. Except maybe their own.
>>725043411 I said earlier that every group of people has its radicals. If yall can't realise that there are just as many radical christians that want my head on a stick as there are radical islamics then you know very little about the similarities between almost all faiths of those kinds. I'm fighting for innocent people who simply believe what they believe in terms of a loving and merciful god that DOESNT want queers to die have a safe and peaceful life and be able to seek refuge.
OP here, I'm pretty much out. it's like 5am and all I've learned is that most transphobic people are dumb as fuck. however, those who used science and psychology to back up their arguments instead of making assumptions (especially about cis women who, on any other day, they couldn't care less about).
Like, so many people have been like BUT WHAT ABOUT THE INNOCENT WOMEN when most of the time those same people probably joke about raping women and cat call women in the street.
I appreciated the decent, logical conversations. i don't think i got called autistic once in this thread.
>Now they are. But they used to be segregated by skin color too. Did you not take history in middle school
Literally no argument. Are you trying to imply black people somehow were never human? You comparing your mental illness to our struggle is quite insulting. You were born as either a male or female. Even during apartheid there were rooms for both genders for us.
>Black peoples presence in the bathroom is disgusting to me. Used to be digusting to an actual majority of whites too.
We can't change that we were born black, literally all you have to do to fit in is nothing.
>No, women don't face an increased risk of being hurt by allowing bathroom choice by transpeople.
o'really >http://www.dailywire.com/news/5190/5-times-transgender-men-abused-women-and-children-amanda-prestigiacomo Not to mention trans people are literally mentally unstable.
>Gays too? Autists definitely, bye bye most of /b/
Gays and autists don't want access to female bathrooms so they can touch little girls, nor do they think they're something they're not. And if you think we can't tell if you're a man or woman I have news for you. You have zero arguments.
>>725044921 No, no, I mean when I was passing as male and still having to use the female bathrooms because school policies, a lot of chicks got freaked out. genital-based bathroom policing would be ridiculous, humiliating and inconvenient for everyone involved, trans or otherwise.
then they have to use the womens room right? so what are you going to do, post genital examiners at all the doors? or just take peoples word for it despite them being indistiguishable from a biological male until they pull down their pants?
>>725045122 >38268000 is not a small number. Now compare that to the 3 trannies in this thread.
dude 12% of the population IS a small minority, stop trying to pretend it isn't. flip it.. saying 88% *isn't* a large majority doesn't sound right now does it?
>Literally no argument. Are you trying to imply black people somehow were never human? You comparing your mental illness to our struggle is quite insulting. You were born as either a male or female. Even during apartheid there were rooms for both genders for us.
Saying "literally no argument" doesn't make it so. You were born either black or not black. You comparing your propensity for violence to simply being uncomfortable for no other reason that your own thoughts is quite insulting.
>We can't change that we were born black, literally all you have to do to fit in is nothing.
It's pretty silly to suggest that someone would take on all the difficulties that coming out as trans entails just for the heck of it. That's what you're saying right, that it's just a lifestyle choice? Like being gay maybe?
>>725045122 >Gays and autists don't want access to female bathrooms so they can touch little girls, nor do they think they're something they're not. And if you think we can't tell if you're a man or woman I have news for you. You have zero arguments.
Transwomen don't want access to female bathrooms so they can touch little girls either.
And no, you couldn't tell that the situation in this picture is perfectly a-ok because that person obviously really has a vagina (they do)
>>725032364 Disparate outcomes do not equal disparate treatment. Your citation of differences in prison populations does not equal differences in treatment of that group. Hell, you disprove the theory yourself when you cite that your group has more alcohol problems. So, 3% vs 25%. How much of that is due to alcohol? Do you know? Of course you don't, so what percentage of the given population should be in prison, considering that we already have one factor on the table that increases the likely percentage beyond that of 3? You have no idea.
>>725045677 >dude 12% of the population IS a small minority Relative to the argument it is not. And if you add in all people that would be segregated that would be close to 50% of the US. Nothing close to 0.6% of the tranny population.
>Saying "literally no argument" doesn't make it so. You were born either black or not black. You comparing your propensity for violence to simply being uncomfortable for no other reason that your own thoughts is quite insulting.
All these empty words. You could have copy pasted the ingredients to a good pasta instead.
>It's pretty silly to suggest that someone would take on all the difficulties that coming out as trans entails just for the heck of it. That's what you're saying right, that it's just a lifestyle choice? Like being gay maybe?
Do you die if you don't cut off your wiener and go to restrooms not made for you? Seems like a lifestyle choice to me. Being gay is literally also a choice. Stop trying to use everyone else to further your argument.
>I can link to 5 instances of women abusing other women too No shit. Lesbians beat their partners up a shit ton. However they're still sane.
>So are quite a good percent of black people. Way moreso than any other race.
Because of your people enslaving us and literally breeding us to be work horses with high test.
>>725047229 Pretty much this. Also, transgenderism definitly a mental illness. It is no different than biid, and yet we let, nay, encourage these people with perfectly healthy bodies to mutilate their genitals.
>>725045677 >then they have to use the womens room right? so what are you going to do, post genital examiners at all the doors? or just take peoples word for it despite them being indistiguishable from a biological male until they pull down their pants?
We're going to kick your face in if we find one of you trying to get away with it. Don't cry when it happens, you know you're asking for it.
>>725046997 >Relative to the argument it is not. And if you add in all people that would be segregated that would be close to 50% of the US. Nothing close to 0.6% of the tranny population.
Sorry, yes it is. You can pretend all you want but just because 0.6% is small minority doesn't mean 12% isn't. And they did use to be segregated, so it's not hypothetical.
>All these empty words. You could have copy pasted the ingredients to a good pasta instead.
Thanks, I'm trying to learn from you, your arguments a WAY emptier than mine. So much talent.
>Do you die if you don't cut off your wiener and go to restrooms not made for you? Seems like a lifestyle choice to me. Being gay is literally also a choice. Stop trying to use everyone else to further your argument.
Well, thanks for clarifying that you're totally ignorant of gay/trans issues.
>No shit. Lesbians beat their partners up a shit ton. However they're still sane.
Then you've concede the point that transwomen in the womens room don't in fact pose a risk a violence not otherwise existing, thanks.
>Because of your people enslaving us and literally breeding us to be work horses with high test.
Well regardless of the reasons it's true, so thanks for acknowledging that. Really saves time in making your arguments look silly.
>no shit, females are disgusted by you. They can still see you're a fucking tranny. Your tumblr blog may tell you otherwise but we know what you are. No amount of hormones will hide it.
This is true for transwomen, but not for transmen. Do a google image search.
>Keep telling yourself that
Given the many places that don't enforce bathroom-by-genitalia, if there actually was an increased risk of that all you people would be waving it all over the place
Whether or not they go through with the play acting, the best thing for any tranny is to accept the empirical reality of the world that they live in.
"Transwomen" would all be much more mentally healthy and secure if they could look themselves in the mirror and say "I'm a man, but I really really really would prefer to look like and live as the idea that I have of women".
"Transmen" the inverse. Blair White is a good example of that. Blair White mostly accepts the reality of the world that she lives in and recognizes that not everybody wants to play along. The thing is, there is a reason that shrinks are told not to directly contradict delusions. Because it causes the mentally ill to go ballistic. They go ballistic as a form of blackmail, extortion, and bullying to attempt to force others to play along so that they don't have to confront their own flaws and decide how they want to live with them on their own terms.
>>725047943 >Sorry, yes it is. You can pretend all you want but just because 0.6% is small minority doesn't mean 12% isn't. And they did use to be segregated, so it's not hypothetical
I guess one apple is just as little as 2000 to you then right. Because relative to 10000 it's not a lot. I'm not sure you understand. The majority of the population segregate bathrooms into male and female. Your biological sex. Now, in the past it's true races were separated, but they were still separated in restrooms by their sex. This doesn't add anything to your argument. Your argument is one of sex, not race. Not to mention, people can't change their race. Just like you can't change your gender. Trying to change it ends up creating a problem, so in short. You are creating a problem for society by trying to go against the natural order. Autism, Gays, different skin color, all these are found in nature but show me a dog that cuts its wiener off and goes on hormones so it can pretend to be female and then spends copious amount of time complaining when other dogs refuse to acknowledge that it's female. We all know that's what this is about. By allowing you to use female restrooms, society agrees that you're female. You can never change the fact that you were born male/female. And we will never play along with your delusions that you can.
>Well, thanks for clarifying that you're totally ignorant of gay/trans issues.
You're ignorant of cis male/female issues. thanks.
>Then you've concede the point that transwomen in the womens room don't in fact pose a risk a violence not otherwise existing, thanks. No, I haven't. Learn to read. Adding trans adds yet another level of danger.
>This is true for transwomen, but not for transmen. Do a google image search.
I have, I can see that they use to be female. It's not hard.
>Given the many places that don't enforce bathroom-by-genitalia Like? Maybe we should just do what they do in the arab states and toss you off a roof.
>>725048386 >Because it causes the mentally ill to go ballistic. They go ballistic as a form of blackmail, extortion, and bullying to attempt to force others to play along so that they don't have to confront their own flaws and decide how they want to live with them on their own terms. This is what white padded cells were invented to handle.
>>725052113 do we need to evolve physically to the environment? isn't that what capitalism is for. somebody sells you something to make your life easier and in return that capitalist makes money. he evolves from being poor to a rich person.
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