Seriously though where did this whole "born gay" lie come from and why do people actually think it's plausible and not just a mental disorder like binge eating or doing drugs? There's no beneficial or practical reason for one man to put his penis in another's mouth or anus and it's been proven to be high risk behavior both for disease and injury.
>>724763405 >There's no beneficial or practical reason for one man to put his penis in another's mouth or anus and it's been proven to be high risk behavior both for disease and injury. That applies to women too you dumbass.
>>724763405 And who really is born with sexual desires anyways? It's not like you come out thinking "boy I sure like penis" it's a decision made later in life by your ability and desire to breed. If you don't then you have no reason to have risky sex. If being gay were really about "love" then why can't they repress their animal urges to avoid put their penises in places they don't belong and just not give another man AIDS?
>>724763956 Why should they be able to spread their homosexual ideas to MY kids and ruin MY bloodline because some kids wanted to molest mine? We have rights too. Rights to ban and abolish the gay agenda and stop you from killing off our families.
>>724764193 I run into this conservative idea that kids should be brought up to think and act the same as their parents.
It makes me feel sorry for the kids. A lot of them could have made something of themselves if they didn't have to deal with overbearing ignorant parents who fly into an incoherent rage every time someone challenges the beliefs they should have challenged themselves.
>>724764687 Whether you want to or not you're a result of whoever showed you how to live growing up. Maybe some of us just don't want fags influencing our children to make bad decisions just because they did.
>>724763405 I think the real question here is why do you give a fuck .. so long as it doesn't hurt anyone else who cares what someone else does with their cock... stick it in the garbage disposal if you want
The easiest way I always thought about this born/choice debate is with something I heard once. "You are a creation of everything and everyone you've ever known" which I think holds some truth. How can you be something you haven't learned or at least used a collective of ideas to become something. If guys were originally born that way then logically they shouldnt have never had a family with kids for a long periods of time.
>>724764900 >Heterosexuality being the "norm" is a socially constructed, arbitrary designation. It's how animals reproduce, in case you haven't noticed having a baby with two of the same isn't a "choice" when you're gay.
>>724765095 Yeah. But let's say that you grow up on an island by yourself. At sexual maturity, if a woman is dropped off on the island, you will know that you are sexually aroused, and you will know how to have sex with her. That's not taught, it's a part of your hardwiring. If that hardwiring gets mixed up, then its not too much of a stretch of the imagination that a man might be sexually attracted to another man despite how he feels about it.
Most gay people can't help who they are attracted to any more than you can. The question then becomes, is it worth punishing them in some way if they deviate in the bedroom? Most people who adopt individualism would say no.
>>724763780 Holy shit please use google. You don't automatically get aids just from sticking a dick in a mans ass. And they want to get off to so why not with each other in an act we refer to as making love
>>724764225 I've always thought that it spreads thru the gay community faster because they fuck all the time. Any gay friend I've had tells me about threesomes and other kinky shit they do. Hetro couples are too busy hating each other
I was never a big fan of the "born this way" argument. It implies that they would change if they could. Really it just shouldn't matter. Orgasm is one of the most exilerating things we can experience as humans and to me I find it odd when people aren't willing to experiment.
>>724765624 thats a cute picture, but conservatives are generally the ones who don't think. they're typically poorly educated, make their decisions based on experience and tradition (as opposed to facts and rationality).
but hey, if you post this meme enough, you'll start to believe the opposite
>>724763405 It's actually thought that homosexuality is not only perfectly natural, but necessary in the animal kingdom- it's found in many animal species, not just human, that homosexual animals will often adopt abandoned babies of their own or sometimes other species, a trait many heterosexual animals don't have as they are busy with raising their own young. Heterosexuality being the norm is actually a fairly modern concept as well, in the grand scheme of things, and was mainly a European thing pre-colinization of America. In native tribes and some ancient civilizations from around the world, homosexuality and transgenderism was common and not frowned upon at all. Religion is what played a major part in making the whole one man one woman a thing that people believed should be the only sexuality.
>>724764678 What's unhealthy about being gay? If you mean the ridicule and hate that's your fucking fault and maybe you should mind your own business. They don't try to ridicule you for being straight.
>>724765847 Conservatives are trying to bring us back to what makes us human to begin with. Religion is what makes us different than the animals, belief in something larger than we are, even if you don't believe in a conventional God, believing in nothing and thinking there is no consequences is what makes animals animals.
If we do not chose our sexual preferences and have no say so over our own sexual orientation then i guess all of those child rapist and molesters are just fine. I mean they have a sexual attraction to children and if we dont chose our sexual orientation.
>>724765464 I mean as long as he isn't seeking to spread it around I don't really care. I think you own your own self. It's why I think prostitution should be legal. You should be able to do with your body what you want as long as it doesn't effect anyone else. Not to mention the gay community has a strong voice about having safe sex. Most gays don't want to go get aids, but it's easily spread since you can go symptom free for a long time.
>>724766143 Religion is more than believing in the supernatural and what can't be seen. It's the essence that brings us to watch our favorite movies, gather with our friends and families for occasions, form coalitions that better each of our lives by working together. Even if you don't want to believe it we all practice a religion of our own, those who go against the grain and think that none of those aspects matter, are the true animals.
>>724765813 lol as opposed to what? A false documentary??
>literally just use common sense >if being attracted to the same sex WAS genetic/biological >this trait would guarantee genetic death (up until the last 50 years or so) >somehow this trait has survived in the gene pool >it has even GROWN to infect ~ 1-10% of the total population
It's a meme. It's just like the wage gap, or religion. Too taboo to debunk, so we all lie about it to feel better.
>>724766379 i mean, it sounds like you put a lot of thought into this. i disagree on so much, but at least you aren't just mindlessly throwing memes and opinions around that were pulled straight out of your ass
i'd love to have a real discussion about this, but /b/ isn't the place for it. cheers mate
>>724766206 What else do humans have that animals don't but collective thoughts? Collective thoughts creating traditions and ways of life for millions is what makes us human. And these collective thoughts come deep seeded in religion.
If you voted for Hillary, you are a fucking idiot....If you think there are more than two genders, you are a fucking idiot....If you support modern feminism, you are a fucking idiot....If you are going to school for gender studies, you are a fucking idiot.....
There is currently evidence that both hormone levels in the womb and epigenetic attributes can increase the likelihood of homosexuality. Interestingly, women with male gay relatives are more fertile and have larger families. Want a large family, find a girl with a fag brother.
and on the internet, these people develop the hubris of a well-studied person. they fight with the conviction of belief instead of fact, but it looks the same to them.
interestingly, both Plato (Phaedrus) and Aristotle (Nicomachean Ethics) both deal with this topic of people who argue from emotion feel like they're grounded in logic and factuality, even when it's clear to everyone else that they aren't.
>>724766388 Proves how Russians have fucked over decades of youths subliminally.
Trump is going to end up being a martyr. The shadow has let this country become weak cucks because its grooming us towards that. They know they can't defeat this generation through forcing politics so they'll give everyone what they want. The same media celeb news bullshit, feed you what you want while they rape and pillage and bleed this country dry because they know it's a lost cause. Then abandon ship and move to the caymans and Switzerland where all their assets lie
Peace and understanding is the biggest joke yet. Self indulgence and debauchery with whores and homosexuality and finally integration of foreigners and mercenaries in the military, women for equality
however, the dialectic isn't about winning and losing, because that implies that the discussion is about you and i. in reality, it's about the third party spectators who get to watch it and make a decision
>>724766548 Ohhhhh yes. As a lesbian, I had my many girl crushes as a kid. I think earliest I can remember was in first grade, and I worked as hard as a little kid could to get this little doll a female friend of mine wanted, and she gave me a kiss on the cheek when I gave it to her and poof I was gay Although I didn't come out fully til after highschool, my siblings all teased me for being gay around the fourth grade when I still showed no interest in boys
Where did this "conservatives are right" lie come from, and why do people think it's plausible and not just a mental disorder like binge eating or doing drugs? There's no beneficial or practical reason to hate everyone and be hysterically afraid of everything all the time.
>>724765886 It's misinformed libtards like you who make the progressive party look bad when you try to fight for a cause but you swing and miss because you rest the blame on mainly whites, christians and men.
>>724767329 well, i have my own views on that as well. i published a paper exploring the idea that the scientific method is a more advanced form of astrology, which is a more advanced form of tarot, which is a more advanced form of bone/tea leaf reading, etc...
in short, predictive methods for the future based on what we believe works at the time
that's not to say that science is hocus pocus, but it only finds probabilities, not hard truths.
I always wonder about this. Did conservatives sit down with a white board at age 13 and chart out the pros and cons of being attracted to men, finally concluding it's not for them, patting themselves on the back for making the right decision? I mean, that's what they think people do, right? Wtf are they talking about?
>>724766813 I hope when your kids are fighting for bestiality rights they pull the same arguments you do because their feelings will still matter if they're fucking goats and feel the need to have surgery to look like a cat too right?
>>724767441 liberalism (not American liberalism, the classical definition - individualism and individual rights - the ideas that american conservatives and liberals both believe in), class inequality, and capitalism.
>inb4 oh he's just a dumb commie nvm
marx has a lot to say about the world around us, and it would be remiss of us to dismiss him based on the failures of his ideological successors
>>724763405 if people can be born a hermaphrodite, with both a male and female parts then they can also be born with a wired brain that goes opposite of their bodies gender. I consider it a defect. Gender coding in the womb has been said to be one of the most easy things that nature messes up. So yes you can be born gay, but that doesn't mean it's right, same thing with mental retardation, it's natural but retarded to support it.
>>724767484 No way man. The blame is on how our society has been constructed, not on white people. Christians are great, got nothing against them- practically everyone I know are Christians. I also don't place any blame on men, as much as you would like to think so, as our issue still remains with all of us as a collective society and not on one individualized group or another
Is there anything conservatives aren't afraid of? Seriously, they used to be the gun toting, manly men. Now they're diaper wearing, crying shitstains. "We gotta be friends with Russia or they'll hurt us! Brown people are scaarrrrrry! Fags are icky!" Ffs.
>>724767515 I'm a science teacher, and while I do try to hammer the "natural philosophy" side of things, it's very clear that my very liberally-raised students believe science produces 100% hard truths all the time, every time. A lot of my time is spent teaching them about mistakes and arguments, one of my favorites being the Alvarezes being snubbed at parties for suggesting dinosaurs were killed by an asteroid. "SCIENCE!" is just an updated "Deus Vult" but only my least plugged-in students can see it.
>>724763405 There is no risk anymore for diseases. Truvada, Charlie Sheen. There is nothing you guys ever tell the truth over. Even the most basic biology. Everybody is half a fag. And vaginas prolapse too and are fucking filthy and disgusting and filled with way more smegma and fungus and snot and baby chunks
>>724763405 Why don't you simply take a look at nature? There are plenty of animals that engage in homosexual behavior, and their species don't go extinct. Almost like animals find out that rubbing their genitals on flesh feels good, be it male or female. I am not down with doing gay shit, but if someone is into it, why should I give a fuck? The more homosexual men, the more pussy for me.
>>724767849 ah i see. i'm a grad-level philosophy student pursuing my PhD.
i agree mostly. people seem to have dismissed religion and adopted science as their new god.
i've seen the discussions on here before between "STEMfags" and others, and it baffles me that our future scientists have zero grasp of the philosophy behind their sciences. it's like they only learned equations and theories and not how they came about or how to apply them to complex thought outside of a lab setting.
in fact, most of those "STEMfags" dismiss philosophy as being "just as bad as majoring in art or liberal studies". it's really disappointing, though i understand that's it's simply a matter of miseducation.
>>724767942 if you can't breed than that is an impairment. oh they can be normal productive citizens? I guess people born with 3 fingers can't be because that is medical defect or whatever, oh wait they can, but doesn't change the fact it's a defect.
>>724767515 I say science finds the truth as we know it today. In the understanding of the universe, things can change rapidly with new information. When science finds something that contradicts the current truth, they form a new conclusions that includes the new information and that becomes the new truth. True, objective truth is impossible for humans. We all have tint to our perception, and limits in what we can perceive. Repeatably observable evidence is as close as we CAN get to anything resembling "objective truth".
>>724768002 >left out the fact that the original anti-gay Torah scriptures came from Africa and Asia, while only blaming Europe
I didn't only blame Europe, nor did I get into the specifics of what natives and cultures and civilizations. Of course there were other areas that forbid it, my point was that many types of people and areas did not
One causes diminished capacity. Retards can't take care of themselves, drive cars, understand math, bathe, etc. You wouldn't know a gay person from a straight person if you didn't ask or see them kissing men. It's a nonissue for literally everyone who ISN'T mentally retarded.
>>724768147 The fuck are you saying or talking about. It is 4 in the morning. Are you anti gay? You are wrong and Satanic and a duped liar. And the REAL sodomites. I'm going to bed. There are even gay people blessed in Bible all over place. Check out "Shekinah hoax" and "platonic complementarity" and "serpent seed". To see how FUCKED UP YOU GUYS ARE. Muh "they're weird", eh? You'll see. They aren't. YOU all are. They will be perhaps in the 144,000 mentioned in the Bible. You will not be. You're defiled and disqualified
>>724768228 I like your post. well thought out. i would like to make 2 statements:
>When science finds something that contradicts the current truth, they form a new conclusions that includes the new information and that becomes the new truth.
This is how it SHOULD work. In theory. But there's a lot of young people out there today who see science as the ultimate hard and fast answer to everything. If science becomes dogmatic, then science is dead. The entire point of the scientific method is to escape dogmatism, and yet we have people clinging to it as tightly as a Christian does their God.
>True, objective truth is impossible for humans.
Well, depends on what you mean. Deduction is possible, and as long as the premises are correct, then the conclusion is always objectively true.
>>724768165 This. That is ALSO in the Bible. They're called "born eunuchs" and everybody knew it meant what we would call gays, today. The marriage parable (it's a parable nothing else) in Genesis doesn't apply to these men. And we can't tell anybody not to wed. David and Jonathan ejaculated together. And then there's the centurion. That we called him having a "son" when he was clearly fucking the slave boy. Was blessed. Centurions are forbade marriage. And two different words were used. And "beloved". And he didn't want Christ in his house for some reason. But yep. That aint his sex slave. That's his "son".
>>724763405 look at nature, plenty of gay animals around, not exclusive to humans. And there is a benefit, not for the individual perhaps, but for the "herd" its part of. Homosexuality ist just one more quirk of evolution to help the species as a whole. Now i can somewhat understand if you fail to accept that beyond a reasonable doubt. That being said, being an asshole to people because you think its a mental disorder (one that seems to affect penguins and lions to roughly the same percentage as humans...huh) and demanding them to be treated as such is just cold honestly. Its also the reason there are gays, since the herd needs emotional inteligence.
Do you know what an illness is? Normals don't get freaked out by gays because there is no reason to get freaked out. Only weirdass conservatives with overly sensitive purity responses do. That's the only mental illness at issue here--a tendency to be frightened of or offended by everything relatively unusual or different.
>>724768133 I think a lot of that tends to come from basic misunderstands and an overabundance of postmodernist thought. It's very easy to strip meaning from something, say everything is subjective, and call that philosophy, and when you're a STEM-minded person and the majority of your liberal arts education is reductionist and nihilistic, it's easy to get tired of the constant negativity when your own interests tend to be more constructive. I notice the same regard for poetry from that demographic too.
>>724768452 That doesnt exist and i guess your mother raped you and everything you say about them is a backward reflection on yourselves? You created em anyways. And all death and all sin. You literally have sex with the devil's sloppy seconds. Some come from Adam. You come from Cain's line of "something" else >>724768553 Ok Globe-o. Fucking clammosexuals.
>>724765560 Youre weak minded. You know what else is innate To our existence? Murdering, raping, pedophilia etc.... lol. Being gay is a choice and its a bad one. Not to mention how disgusting and perverse it is. Youre just weak minded. Just cause you dont have control over your thoughts and life doesnt mean others dont.
>>724768452 >If being gay is genetic, then it wont be too long until they are removed by natural selection.
This is false. Anyway, being gay isn't genetic, it's epigenetic. Genes play a role. You can see it in twin studies. 50% of twins of gay people are gay too. Even when they are raised by different parents. That illustrates it's not just induced socially. Thanks for playing.
>>724763405 >Seriously though where did this whole "not born gay" lie come from and why do people actually think it's plausible and not just a mental disorder like binge eating or doing drugs? There's no beneficial or practical reason for one man to put his penis in another's mouth or anus and it's been proven to be high risk behavior both for disease and injury.
>>724764390 Lol silly dummy.... thats your rationale? How does it feel to be that stupid? Anyhow... have you ever heard of bisexuals? These faggots go and let dudes fuck their asses... they get HIV (thank god), and their faggot asses go back and give it to women. I hope youre really not this retarded and just another faggot that will probably die of AIDS.
The only reason people are living under the delusions that they are a gender outside of male or female is because of societies gender roles, such as Boys wear blue, Girls wear pink. Boys like superheroes, Girls like Barbie.
Look, I'm open-minded. I realize that not all men like things like sports and other "manly" things. I understand that some girls like "manly" things. That is perfectly OK. People like what they like.
The problem lies in where people assume that just because they don't fit the social mold of their gender, that they somehow must be special. No, your not. It's perfectly normal, you're just an extreme case. Whether it's a feminine male liking girly things, or a butch girl liking manly things. It has nothing to do with being a different gender. Society has just brainwashed you with limitations, which has caused you to brainwash yourself into the delusion of being the opposite sex, both sexes, or some other nonsense.
You can wear dresses, son. You can get a genital alteration surgery. You can take hormones. You can wear makeup and change your posture and personality to be lady-like. You can do all of these things, but it doesn't make you woman. You will never be a woman. You will never understand what it's like to be a woman without actually being born female.
You merely WANT to be female. You have a desire to be one because you like and identify with what society has told you is girly, and whatnot. It doesn't make you the opposite sex. That is a delusion because the world around you has fucked with your brain and left you confused.
I don't hate these people. I just wish we'd stop glamorizing mental illness and delusional thinking. Sure, it makes them happy, but it's still not living in reality.
I find it hilarious though, that those who are certain that there is no god, ghosts, etc., and are strong in their atheism, believe something like "I'm a girl in a boys body."
>>724768443 Deduction is possible, sure. But that's assuming we can prove that the premise is 100% accurate. That would be objective truth. All we can really prove is that the premise can accurately predict the outcome. And to be fair, you can have something be ALMOST right and still accurately predict the outcome, until something new is noticed and accounted for in the premise.
>>724769144 Chill out dude. I didn't say they invented homophobia, I stated it played a large part in modern hetero normativity- especially with the beliefs of the time. Find a better argument against that statement
>>724769208 Lol bro penguins arent sucking each others dicks and butt fucking each other. Why is everyone so fucking stupid in this room or is it just one person. Animals dont even have sex for pleasure you faggot. Maybe dolphins... maybe. But even then... a male dog humping another male dog is showing dominance. They arent faggots.
when people start learning Foucault and Derrida, they only get the big ideas and not the nuances that go along with it. it leads to people making big claims without proper context. i definitely see an issue there.
but rejecting postmodernism as a whole would take a lot of time and effort before i took such a position seriously.
>>724769533 >yes when i was 5 i had my first crush on a girl because of my desire to breed
You had your first crush because you had proto sexual desires. I wanted to see girls' pussies by the time I was 4 or 5. I had sexual fantasies of being naked in the girls change room long before I hit puberty. In fact if you didn't have those I would think you sexual development was completely different from mine. I like girls. Fags like boys. Who gives a flying fuck?
>>724769533 >yes when i was 5 i had my first crush on a girl because of my desire to breed
You had your first crush because you had proto sexual desires. I wanted to see girls' pussies by the time I was 4 or 5. I had sexual fantasies of being naked in the girls change room long before I hit puberty. In fact if you didn't have those I would think you sexual development was completely different from mine. I like girls. Fags like boys. Who gives a flying fuck? .
>>724763405 you're on /b/, you know you aren't going to have a meaningful amount of civil discourse. You know that you will be subject to an incredible amount of confirmation bias. Is this seriously how much you crave being "right"?
Tell him people only believe in god as a result of boredom, aggressive stupidity, or alternatively, a failure to secure their earthly desires. I mean, what else accounts for the belief that magic is real and snakes can talk? Hell, the Koran says on the first page that God manipulates the minds of nonbelievers so they are cut off from access to the truth. Muslims literally believe God brainwashes people. It's a false religion, and they should be ashamed. But they're not, 'cause it's cool to shit on people.
>>724769475 I think thats society as a whole. Look into past superpowers and their downfall, the greeks, the romans, the italians... their reign ends when faggotry is accepted as a "higher way of thinking". Moral of the story... your muslim friend is somewhat correct just a little misinformed and also fuck faggots.
>>724769938 I am not the other anon, but do you not understand genetics/epigenetics? It's not a gene that absolutely makes you gay, and only does that; it is a gene that is strongly linked to homosexuality through means of something such as hormone production. Of course there is no "gay gene" but there is a gene in literally every single god damn one of us that, when active during our development, is likely to facilitate homosexual development by inhibiting androgens.
>>724769500 Yeah it can't be completely rejected and I've never heard of anyone doing such. There's just an abundance of unregulated academic democracy, if that makes sense. Part of why nihilistic attitudes are favored is because it reduces the real and perceived power equity gap. People will naturally favor anything that involves accruing power to themselves, but our society is based on power being localized, and unless we want to make an abrupt transition to anarchism I think we're missing a re-integration element; once you've seen society and your own identity as subjective constructs that are significantly outside your own control, how do you cope?
>>724770187 Which all came only when we came up with religion. If you watch anime like it's your life that is your religion, seriously though if you're not religious somehow you're not a critical thinker.
They sure aren't having sex for procreation. Maybe that's not the only thing it's for? Like, wtf are you saying? Anal sex, blowjobs, 69ing, dildos, vibrators, etc. are violations of natural law? Wtf are you talking about?
>>724770158 The Greeks' reign flourished under Alexander the Great, and the Romans' ended after turning into the (Christian) Holy Roman Empire. Pick up a history textbook, and also maybe fix the loose wire in your brain that establishes false causations
>>724769818 Don't lose your religion, get your humanity back. Seriously felt the same way for years about video games, it was like "what's the point" and then I picked up minecraft and my life has been picked up ever since.
Too complicated for retards to grasp. Even though it would take a five second wikipedia search to learn this shit, I feel like we should save our breath. Which is why this thread is utterly worthless. Conservatives have no brains or sense of morality.
No kidding. I have a phil PhD along with a JD. I can read complicated shit all day long. I wrote the Ontario bar exam today. And I still have no idea what these people are talking about beyond the obvious fact that we are influenced socially. Yes, we have biases. Yes we are constrained by our upbringing, environment, and society? So fucking what? Learn to fucking think and you'll stop believing retarded shit. Reasons for belief are what matter, not random beliefs generated by random forces we're subject to.
>>724770509 Our current social climate disfavors the idea of objective moral truths and value judgments, but our society is built upon certain things operating in objective ways. Children obey their parents, people follow laws, etc. These are contradictions. Without specifically addressing a way to integrate the two, you get jarring reality breaks that lead to victimhood mentalities, institutional worship, that kind of thing. Basically, by killing God but not officially or consistently replacing him with anything, we've been scrapping together whatever we can find and hoping for the best.
>>724770376 Heh. You're pretty ok, anon. I dunno, I'll never understand why people don't like it. Overall, itself about the human desire to constantly go onwards and upwards, to always want to achieve more as individuals and as a collective race. And short term, it has a bunch of sweet looking giant robots beating the shit out of other sweet looking giant fucking robots, which is pretty fuckin' tits. Plus, there's not THAT much fan service, compared to some shit out there. Female anatomy is nice and all, but if I'm in a mood to stare at those, I'd rather just jerk it to porn, really.
>>724770598 >>724770598 You dont know what they are doing. You have a perverse mind and you see the 69 position cause your head is filled with faggotry. And yes all that shit is against what you call "natural law". Fucking vibrators and dildos were made cause doctors were getting cramps from finger fucking bitches. Go figure the vibrator and dildo was invented to shut women the fuck up. It just backfired cause we have faggots like you that think being perverse is "normal" and should be tolerated and accepted by everyone. Youre a fucking idiot.
Please support this website by donating Bitcoins to 16mKtbZiwW52BLkibtCr8jUg2KVUMTxVQ5 If a post contains copyrighted or illegal content, please click on that post's [Report] button and fill out a post removal request
All trademarks and copyrights on this page are owned by their respective parties. Images uploaded are the responsibility of the Poster. Comments are owned by the Poster.
This is a 4chan archive - all of the content originated from that site. This means that 4Archive shows an archive of their content. If you need information for a Poster - contact them.