Greetings, /b/. I'm an anarchist, a community organizer,

>>723561619
No shit, what is an NGO? I'm pretty interested in this stuff but have no idea about any of it.

>>723561619
>founded two NGOs

How does it feels to be a shill?

FBI here, are traps gay?

>>723561619
good luck overthrowing the laws of physics

>>723561619
Kill yourself pinko

>>723561701
Non-Governmental Organization. Virtually all of the organizations you're familiar with are NGOs.

>>723561711
For what or whom do you believe I'm shilling? Genuinely curious.

>>723561738
I think sexuality is a social construct. Until about 150 years ago, there wasn't even a word for homosexuality. There were words for certain sex acts, like sodomy or tribadism, but people didn't have a set sexuality. Romantic friendships were the norm instead of the exception, with the most famous one in recent history being Abraham Lincoln and Joshua Speed who shared a bed and emotional closeness; whether they also engaged in mutual sex isn't known, but neither would have considered it wrong or unusual.

>>723561619
Sound more like a communist than an actual anarchist to me anon

My father organized against nepotism and cronyism can Union leadership , and most of my brothers were union carpenters or electricians, yeah, I'm old

you guys and other black blocks interrupt the Peace of peaceful demonstrations by tearing it down burning stuff and confronting the cops.

Why not go out on your own and have your own final it or destructive demonstration and leave the peaceful demonstrations alone? You guys are a cancer on the resistance.

My other question is why haven't you an heroed yet.

>>723561795
Our genus is 200,000 years old. For 197,000 of those years, we were anarchic and made decisions by consensus. Many modern tribes (such as the Hopi and the Highland Yanomani) have continued to have stable, peaceful anarchist cultures for millennia. If any sort of social order can be said to follow "physical laws," it would be anarchism.

>>723561821
I'm a mutualist. Mutualism is generally regarded as being slightly right of centre, to the right of anarchosyndicalism, but left of the egoists and individualists.

>>723561619
You seem cool. Keep it up comrade. How do you feel about individualist anarchism/anarchists?

>>723562045
Your examples are for small community Networks comma sparse populations. How do you think anarchism should work in densely populated urban areas?

>>723562040
I'm a card-carrying Wobbly. There is a single paid member for the entire union, and our dues are based on income and can be as low as $6 a month. Because we use the model of solidarity unionism in which the members themselves formulate strategy rather than some faceless career bureaucrat, we've avoided the corruption of other unions -- which is why we've lasted 110 years despite the best efforts of the bosses and State to crush us with prison, executions, and deportations.

But yes, we do believe in forceful revolution. If you want to see how forceful, look up the Centralia Massacre and see how we reacted when veterans tried to smash up our union hall. We left such a pile of corpses that they're still ass-blasted about it to this day.

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>>723561619
what is a radical unionist?

what do you think of anarchocapitalism?

Are you worried about neoliberalism? If so, how are you fighting it?

Are you vegan? Why or why not?

What do you think about homeschooling?

How, honestly, does a mutuality propose to topple the power of capital and government arms? I'm asking as a matter of praxis. Old school Leninists like myself propose armed conflict and guerrilla action. What's your plan?

Do you actually make any effort to change people's fundamental mindset and view of the world or just stick with organizing and playing in the current system in an effort to remove those in power?

>>723561619
The whole point of being an anarchist is that you don't follow or 'found' any structured organisations at all. That's why they can't win power in a government for example - they can't form a political party or any kind or have any kind of structured leadership.

You are not an anarchist. You're closer than those that think anarchy is running about setting fires and rioting, but you are still not an anarchist.

Modern day anarchy is impossible to achieve and maintain even though it's probably the best choice in theory.

>>723562113
To quote Errico Malatesta, "Individualism is, in theory, a kind of Anarchy without cooperation. It is therefore no better than a lie, because liberty is not possible without Solidarity, without cooperation. The criticism which Individualists pass on government is merely the wish to deprive it of certain functions, to hand them over virtually to the capitalists. But it cannot attack those repressive functions which form the essence of government, for without an armed force the proprietary system could not be upheld."

As a mutualist, I believe in ownership and exclusive possession, but not property.

>>723562171
Mutualism and parecon attempt to answer that with the existence of a central, community-run, non-profit bank to both track labour credit and to offer interest-free loans to allow for the creation of large capital projects of benefit to the community. Capitalism was invented for the specific purpose of aggregating wealth into a small enough number of hands so that capital projects such as factories, highways, and dams could be built. Interest-free loans replace this need without eliminating industrialization in the process like the Bakuninists would require.

Topkek

Post a link to organizations in atlanta. That I can join.

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>>723561619
Get a job, you communist faggot.

>>723562552
>anarchist
>which organization can i join

You make me smile little one.

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>>723562256
https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=tB-qL1v36Cw

>>723562267
>what is a radical unionist?

I'm a Wobbly, and the kind of unions I organize are not traditional in the sense most people would recognize, though their structure predates modern unionism in the sense that their purpose is mutual aid and protection rather than collective bargaining. I mostly unionist street workers: beggars, buskers, fortune tellers, scrappers, pickers, and so on, people no large union would touch. The IWW has a long history of organizing the unorganizable. During the Great Depression, for example, so many hobos were Wobblies that they'd demand to see your union card if you tried to hop a train and pitch you off if you couldn't produce one.

>what do you think of anarchocapitalism?

Doesn't exist. Capitalism creates an owning class and a working class based on access to the means of production, and social classes are antithetical to anarchism.

>Are you worried about neoliberalism? If so, how are you fighting it?

I work at a grass-roots level. I let the big boys play with their toys up on the battlements while I slowly undermine the structures which keep them in power. They'll never know what's happening until the walls are falling. I'm a patient man.

(I'll have to answer the rest in another message.)

>>723562452
Money and the beleif in authority are the two new tools and "new religion" of those that control the world. Nothing will change by trying to manipulate the banking system as money is still there as a tool to control people. Trying to free people and still maintaining the tools of control will not change anything. Good luck actually freeing people without a huge fundamental change in the beleifs of the vast majority of people.

>>723561619
Do you honestly believe the human race could live in anarchy without immediately fucking it up for most of them?

>>723562267
>Are you vegan? Why or why not?
I'm not vegan, but I am largely vegetarian. I used to be pretty strict about it, but I found myself feeling superior about it and didn't like that, so now I eat what's put in front of me; I don't go out of my way to eat meat, but if someone serves it to me I won't refuse it. I will also eat fish if I catch it myself. Life eats life, and if meat was obtained by small-scale sustainable hunting, I would probably eat a small amount of meat.

>What do you think about homeschooling?
I think education is too important to be left to parents, but there are better solutions than large, monolithic educational systems run by the State. The creche system, for example, works well for kibbutzes.

>>723561619
No master, but you organized something? How ridiculous?

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>>723561619
Is this what stops you from kys?
If so, please can you stop this?
Cheers in advance!

>>723562296
Have you read Bakunin's exchanges with Marx at the First International, where they kicked out all the anarchists. They're rather... instructive. "When the people are being beaten with a stick, they are not much happier if it is called `the People's Stick'." -- Mikhail Bakunin

We've seen again and again and again, from Ukraine to Russia to Spain to Cuba to Venezuela what happens when a vanguard takes power and replaces the old bosses with new bosses. Any change has to occur on a structural level first. THEN you can have your bloody revolution. I have no objection to blood and thunder, but it has to be for a point or it's worse than simply living with oppression which has the benefit of at least providing stability.

>>723562309
I've mentioned in previous postings that I organize people on the street who are largely apolitical. The kind of work I do is subversive on an intrinsic level. I don't need to call the work I do explicitly anarchist because it operates on an anarchist, horizontal, grass-roots level and teaches people the benefits of mutual aid without preaching. I don't care what people CALL it, as long as they're USING it.

>>723562256
I have no problem with your chosen chosen method of protesting comma or revolution. It's just not doing anyone else any favors when you bring violent revolution into a non-violent protest. It is Bad Manners it is unaccountable and it is ineffective. Keep your protest focused and leave the non-violent activities alone.


Whether you heat it or not that's my message. Beware Technologies to identify black Bloc protesters comma both visible and invisible.

>>723563060
Useless lefty fag

>>723562444
There's a huge difference between creating a grass-roots organization and founding a political movement. I have no interest in playing in the halls of power. I teach people who have been disempowered how to use mutual aid to find allies in people with similar needs, and to grow strong through fighting for their own interests against those who wield power through capital. I'm not trying to "create awareness" or "open minds" or "overthrow the system." What I do is a lot more dangerous and subversive: I teach people how to recognize their own interests, how to methodically work out step by step how to pursue those interests, and how to make allies of people necessary for pursuing those interests.

And that's pretty damned anarchist if you ask me.

"People often take prejudice or habit for truth and in that case feel no discomfort, but if they once realize that their truth is nonsense, the game is up. From then onwards it is only by force that a man can be compelled to do what he considers absurd." -- Alexander Herzen

>>723562452
Interest-free lending will not eliminate corruption and profit-taking because humans are humans and some believe in mutualism and some believe in every dog for himself. Wants to climb the ladder to control the capital we are all f***** again and again and again period period period period period


Next Theory?

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>>723562552
http://www.iww.org/branches/US/GA

I highly recommend the IWW. We're not perfect, but we've been at it for 110 years, and we've been at the forefront of every major labour and civil rights battle for that entire period.

>>723562601
this

>>723563440
At the Forefront for sure and in the f****** way

>>723561619

What is most ridiculous than a "anarcho" estatist?

>>723563172
Old Leninist here - excellent response. You and I are in common cause, just in different roles. Stay solid.

>>723561619
Grow up idiot.

>>723563440
What a bunch of fucking faggots in this outfit. Apparently the "employers" of these workers don't mind if they skip work for months on end to run down the street breaking windows and kicking trash cans.

>>723562832
See, that's what I meant when I wrote that I'm not trying to "change the system." You can't change the system. If you could, it wouldn't be the system. What I do is show people how different forms of organization can get them what they want out of life. It just so happens that those forms of organization are also anarchist and operate by consensus through horizontal executive structures. A good example of this is filesharing; I recognized in the very beginning how dangerous and subversive filesharing was, and threw as much time, money, and risk as I could afford at it. And indeed, by the time the capitalists recognized the danger, it had spread so far and so fast that they couldn't and can't stuff the genie back into the bottle. A whole generation has now grown up with the intrinsic understanding of the benefits of sharing knowledge -- and that the capitalists trying to stop them are NOT their friends or acting in their best interests.

>>723563562
Maybe you could meet up and suck each other's dicks.

>>723562851
Currently? No. Anarchism requires a great deal of personal responsibility, something which has been beaten out of people for generations. It's going to take time to change that, which is why I do what I do the way I do it.

>>723563362
If you don't focus on the minds of people it will not change anything. You can focus on destroying the current power system but all that will do is cause unmeasurable suffering as everyone still believes the world is controlled and regulated the same way and there will be no change. A lot of people would starve and kill each other and in the end rebuild civilization in a very familiar manner. All that would be accomplished is a very lethal breakdown in society for a period of time and then back to more of the same

>>723563597
Your mother is gay

>>723563011
The word "anarchy" comes from the Greek anarkos which means, literally, "without rulers." It does not mean without laws, without rules, or disorder. Any system where people collaborate by consent without the use of coersive force is anarchic. Early US communities, for example, were anarchic: they gathered in town hall meetings and voted on laws and rules by simple show of hands.

>>723563627
I can respect that

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>bitcoins are currency that don't need security assurance from banks and central banks
>security assured by blockchains
>blockchain technology being transplanted to other forms of capital - cars, gadgets, even houses
>circumventing and thus eliminating the need for security institutions that derive power from it - ie banks, government agencies, etc
>trade and payment between individuals directly

Is this anarchic? Would this be a preferred form of capitalism? I asked about anarchocapitalism earlier and subscribe to it because I believe technological advancement such as this will allow for a decentralization of wealth. What do you think?

>>723563667
Or I could put you up against the wall. Whatever.

>>723563385
If that's what you believe, then feel free to create your own authoritarian community where you can live. All I want is to create and live in my own mutualist community; what you do in yours is entirely your business, unless and until it interferes in my ability to have mine, at which point I have to convince you to stop, most likely with a rapidly-moving piece of lead.

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>>723563597
Nope. I've been an angry teenager for 48 years and I plan to stay that way. Mother Jones was still fearlessly facing down riot cops and capitalist goon squads into her 90s.

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Anarchists are faggots who don't appreciate what society gives them. A fucking worthless leach that never wants to give anything back. Go move to a remote island and get off the internet. You don't don't deserve something that took civilization to create.

>>723563784
Have you read Kropotkin's _Conquest of Bread_? It's specifically about this issue. The title refers to the premise that no sane person will join a revolution unless and until the revolutionaries can prove they can feed everyone afterward. It's part of why the IWW organizes industrially rather than on a craft basis, so that we can keep the machinery running after things fall apart. You can look at the factories in Chile, for example, which were seized by anarchists after the capitalists abandoned them and got the machinery operating again, trading finished goods for raw materials, all the while defending the factories from the police.

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>>723564289

>>723561619

I imagine you have to co-operate with many people of different political opinions. How do you manage running campaigns with left wing statists, moderate liberals, etc etc?

In your opinion, has the experience of co-operating with the politically different made you better - perhaps refining your views - or worse - maybe your views were warped not by political theory but by just happening to like some random libertarian you worked with once?

>>723564402
Haven't read that. It's pretty self evident though when you really sit down and play out the scenarios in your head.

>>723563955
I don't think you understand what "capitalism" is. The premise of capitalism is that the means of production -- that is, the tools used to create wealth -- are put into the exclusive hands of private individuals. Land, factories, resources, they're all privately owned. The people who own them become lords and masters, and those who do not have the good fortune to be born with access to the means of production become slaves to those who do.

Trade is not capitalist. In fact, capitalism is monopolist by design, and hostile to trade. I'm a mutualist, usually regarded as slightly right of centre, but am absolutely opposed to capitalism -- as you should be.

Anarchist fagggg.

All my experience of working in groups - group projects, running a couple community benefit companies, local political committees - have taught me that humans need hierarchy in order to operate.

You just need a chair to structure speaking times, to make the judgement on minor details because voting is incredibly incredibly slow etc.

What's your evidence that non-hierarchical systems are better? I'd like it to be true, it just goes against all my experience of group dynamics - even left wing groups who attempt to be flat end up defaulting to a hierarchy to work properly.

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>>723561619
>ANARCHIST
>COMUNITY organizer
>radical UNIONIST

>>723564743
That's a very hard left critique of capitalism

>>723564550
Oh yes, very much so. I started out as an anarchocommunist, then drifted steadily rightward to anarchosyndicalism and finally into mutualism as a direct result of spending decades having to work with reds, leftists, Trots, tankies, and harder-core-than-thou campus radicals who were always ready to wave a flag at a protest or sign a fiery manifesto, but vanished like smoke when there was actual work to be done. I decided I had no interest in share and share alike with lazy shirkers.

And yes, I've had to sit down at the table and shake hands with the devil, negotiating with police and politicians for what I could get. It was actually pretty easy as long as I kept my mind on the step by step goals. I recall, for example, chatting with a cop during a major action, and he thanked me for being so courteous, unlike the other participants. I quote Churchill at him, "If you have to kill a man, it costs nothing to be polite," and smiled. He did a double-take and was clearly completely confused.

Op obvious fgt

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>>723564743
what about property rights from the ground up? That rights to capital are assured by technology that circumvents the need for large permanent institutions and therefore power over capital - whereby institutions are formed to serve a purpose and would not exist beyond that purpose.

>>723564977
I think you're confusing hierarchy with structure. Our meetings have a chair to keep order, but it rotates between individuals every meeting, for example. Likewise, we have positions like secretary and treasurer and so on, and while these positions have executive power, they are rotated between people on a regular basis both to make sure no power blocs are created and to make sure everyone gets training for every task.

And on the battlefield, in places like revolutionary Ukraine and Spain, Makhno's and Durruti's orders were followed absolutely -- but were freely questioned _after_ the battle. They also held their positions by consent, not appointment, and could be replaced at any time.

You find a similar arrangement among the Hopi and highland Yanomani, where they have have a council of elders whose word is often followed because they give good advice, but who have no formal authority to issue orders.

>>723565210
Read Pierre-Joseph Proudhon's _What Is Property?_. He's the father of mutualism, and draws a very distinct line between ownership and property. Ownership is determined by possession, labour investment, and need. If you build a house, you own that house. It does not belong to The People or The State. So long as you reside there, it's yours; but you can't build a second one and rent it out. The land is free for all people to build, and you are welcome to own only what you, yourself build and possess.

>>723565043

What is your view on relations with police in general? I've always been kinda disgusted by chants about hating cops. They're workers, most of what they do is necessary and scarring to them, and it's often not their fault they're complicit in oppression / they haven't realised.

>>723565482
So you couldn't build a house and give it to your children, or let someone having hard times occupy it?

>>723565043

Isn't that a bit irrational? It seems like you changed opinion based on whether you liked the people who shared your opinion. Someone can be unpleasant and wrong

>>723565482

I will read this for sure

>>723565319

And none of these systems you've been involved with have devolved to a highly respected individual swaying everyone? Because most of my experiences have been like that - flat in name only.

>>723565850

*unpleasant and right

>>723565817
Police are class enemies. They might be very nice people with great intentions -- most aren't -- but at the end of the day their job is to maintain the status quo. I do organizer training, and one of the first things I teach is that if the police are allowing you to do something, it's not effective. They exist to protect the wealth of the rich; anything else they do is ancillary to that. If you aren't getting watched, surveilled, harassed, and occasionally arrested, you aren't being effective.

Considering the picture you posted, it is interesting that the whole "shake the dust off your sandals" thing comes right out of the Christian bible.

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Bored of snapchat? > Snapchatz .com could help you today

>>723565848
Sure you could -- if they actually used it themselves. You could even sell it to them. But you couldn't rent it or mortgage it or otherwise make passive investment on it. You have the absolute right to the full fruit of your labour, but you may NOT skim other people's labour.

>>723565850
It has nothing to do with liking people; I've simply endured too many disastrous campaigns where people cared more about which pronouns were used or how pure the politics were or how many people signed anti-oppression statements than actually getting shit done.

>>723565937
Sure, that's what we call a "cult of personality," and it's actually really effective in the short term, which is why it occurs so often. But over the long term, it is absolutely toxic and will destroy any organization. I spend a lot of time teaching new organizers about the dangers of cults of personality, how to recognize them, and why you have to go full-out balls to the wall in fighting them, even when it means falling on your own sword to dismantle them, which I've been forced to do on more than one occasion.

>>723563994
Non-violent protest is how I see it being created, which is why you are a f****pezt

>>723566006
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1_v9tz2nxvs

>>723563667
You don't even have the sack you limp wristed fuckboy.

>>723566427
"The whole history of progress of human liberty shows that all concessions yet made to her august claims have been born of earnest struggle. If there is no struggle there is no progress. Find out just what any people will quietly submit to and you have found the exact measure of injustice and wrong which will be imposed upon them, and these will continue till they are resisted. Those who profess to favor freedom, and yet deprecate agitation, are men who want crops without plowing up the ground, they want rain without thunder and lightning, they want the ocean without the awful roar of its many waters." -- Frederick Douglass, 1857

Have you ever considered becoming a startup founder / investment banker / [insert moneybags here ] in order to make a fucktonne of money and fund other activists?

It always seemed weird to me that few political types pick funding as their specialisation. If you make $200,000 dollars a year you could probably pay for 6 activists to do what you think is best fulltime. Are you more effective that 6 people?

>>723566292

I guess I've just never really seen it as a problem shallow enough for an actual solution - more a 'fundamental human nature' thing. You've had success with rooting charisma out and building a decent size actual mutualist organisation?

>>723566773
I actually used to be a partner in a marketing firm in my 20s. I made a huge amount of money for doing very little, and what little I did was largely dishonest. Over time, I began to darken inside, to become something I didn't like. My business partner, Frank, was killed by it. Went to bed at the age of 32 and died in his sleep from a blood clot in his leg. I truly believe the kind of darkness you swallow will blacken your soul and devastate your body. I ended up having to spend a year homeless, hitching around the continent cold and hungry and alone, to sick up all of that evil.

Today, I live a life of voluntary simplicity. My income has not been higher than $10k USD per year for the last decade, and all my worldly possessions can fit in a backpack. I don't have a fridge or stove or vehicle, and sleep on an old piece of foam. I not only don't own a cellphone, I've never even used one.

>>723566926
Twice. And the first time I ended up having to commit organizational suicide in a sort of mutually assured destruction to prevent the cult of personality from forming. The person who was trying to muscle her way into a position of authority required me resigning in disgrace to act as a lightning rod for all the lies, bad press, and shit-talking down on street level she'd pulled in an attempt to force us to recognize her power.

>>723567119

So you'd encourage me to do what you're doing now? I was intending to use my software degree to earn six figures and funnel all but 30K to direct action in whatever city I end up in.

I don't think it's impossible to do this - I know some people doing it though they mainly fund anti-poverty in other countries - but I'm not sure how hard it is and whether I'd get value drift over the decades. What do you think?

Really enjoying this thread, thanks.

>>723561619
>Greetings, /b/, I'm a Medieval Feudalist

Time to grow up and stop living in a fantasy land, little boy.

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>>723561619
>an anarchist
>also a community organizer
>a role where you participate and contribute to society's structure and overall health
Wew lad

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>>723567889
>b b but like... it's the good kind of structure

>>723567666
All jokes about your Satanic trips aside, I think it's a decision only you can make. Not everyone has to be down in the trenches, and indeed, one of the things I tell the public when I do interviews is that money is one of the ways you can be extremely helpful without risking jail time.

The way the Taoists put it is, never pick up anything you can't put down. If you can have a house and a car and a family and the respect of nice, middle class friends and neighbours and then throw it all away with a laugh, then you can afford to have it. Otherwise you're willingly walking into the cage which was prepared for you on the day of your birth.

Do I recommend my lifestyle? Well, my health is shattered, I have little or no joy in my existence, I have no one on Earth who cares whether I live or die, and organizing has become the totality of my existence, preventing me from doing anything else with my life which might have brought me rewards other than grim determination. But my hours or my own and I require little more than my pipes and a pouch of tobacco to entertain myself. It has its compensations.

>>723561912
Anarchy is just an idea. You don't find it in nature. Cultures always have norms and mores. Dedinitely not anarchy cultures. Anarchy cultures, no such thing.

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https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=P6ENH8N672Y

>>723561912
Sexuality is a socially constructed word for an actual thing in the world. The word is a social construct, sexuality is not. I'm getting the feeling that you are some grade-a moron with no education.

>>723567889
>>723568046
>>723568201
I find it really irritating when drive-by shit-posters can't be bothered to read any of the postings in a lengthy, intelligently-discussed thread which has already addressed all of the idiot nonsense they're spewing.

Are you a transhumanist?

>>723568159

Thanks for heartfelt answer. I hope you set aside a little time for joy in simple things today.

How's it feel knowing that your political ideas are never going to be achieved?

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>>723568046
If he's going to be an anarchist that's fine. Living life with no rules, that's cool. I empathize with the ideals.
But OP has continued to reinforce the stereotype that anarchists are just people who can't stand getting told what to do, but instead of working their way up societies ladder they go off and act like a gigantic faggot.
Who the hell claims to idealize a life of no rules, but then works as someone who establishes cooperative organizations with rules?

>>723568415
More of a post-humanist. I'm a Jungian mystic, and I believe we're reaching the end of the current story-cycle. Consciousness is preparing to reinvent itself, as it did when we moved from hunter-gatherer to agrarian, and the Singularity is going to allow us to redefine what the word "human" even means at its most intrinsic level. And frankly, I'm looking forward to it. A bunch of semi-evolved monkeys are not going to travel to the stars in aluminum cans full of food, water, and astronaut poop; whatever inherits the Universe, it will not be human in any sense that we would currently recognize.

>>723563362
That's not anarchistic. You have proven your ignorance. End thread. Nothing but a mental-midget here thinking he's spreading anarchy.

>>723568358
>demanding people live by your shitty arbitrary rules on who gets to be an anarchist (an ideology of no rules)
>whinging about shit posting on /b/
Are you clinically retarded?

>>723568358
>the idiot nonsense they're spewing
Kek. Yeah, anarchist """ideology""" is totally rooted in reality.

Btw, I did read some of the thread. I think maybe if you didn't spend so much time with excessively idealistic bullshit, your life wouldn't be so shitty.

But you're definitely a worthless piece of shit and you should kill yourself.

>>723568569
You are just a jackass. The Singularity wont happen. It's wishful thinking. Do you even study Artificial Intelligence? Now, your Brahma bullshit has nothing to do with the Singularity. You just sound like a damn fool.

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>>723568516
>>723568573
>>723568680
>>723568750
>>723568784
Well, I see the shit-posters have started to buzz around the thread, so our time here has finished. Thanks to everyone who participated intelligently, whether we agree or not. To the idiot subnormals and slackjawed, shitposting basement troglodytes shitting up an otherwise interesting thread, please die in a fire.

OP out.

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>I'm going to go tell everyone on /b/ about how I'm really hip and live a life of no rules
>But I'm going to whinge and complain at every instance when they prod at gaping holes in my lifestyle choice

>>723568358
I read them alright. It's just that you are WRONG. Define anarchy for me, please? I need to know what you define anarchy as and we will compare it with the actual definition. How about that for drive-by shit posting?

>>723568910
>OP out
>continues to monitor thread
>reads this post
>gets hit with a flash of self-awareness
>realizes he should just end it right now
Do it, OP... do it.

>>723568910
You're so juvenile you are still covered in embryonic fluid

>>723561912
>whether they also engaged in mutual sex isn't known, but neither would have considered it wrong or unusual.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sodomy_laws_in_the_United_States
Have you considered that you're probably just full of shit?

>>723566292
Huh? I can own a house but not land. If I build a house, I can sell it but not rent it? I do this in an efficent way (say I have 19 kids). My family can amass wealth in this manner. We then use money in your system. However there is no central organized body to determine the value of that money? There is no regular exchange. There is no consistency of the value of money. Therefore the money becomes worthless. But lets ignore this... Lets pretend that everyone agreed on the value if money... How would people get money unless they exchange their labor for it? If there is a labor exchange, how do you prevent anyone from taking advantage if their staff? How would you keep human desire for control and greed out of the equation? Lets ignore this.... What would keep me from using the house sale money to corner a market and buy the majority of an item? One could secretly group together a handfull of select people (selected by desire) and then collectively arbitrage that market. If it was cornered well, we could amass more wealth selling that market and using the profits to corner a new market. The cycle could repeat endlessly (as it does in the current world). There would be several equality imbalances. Your ideas do not provide any solutions to the core flaws of humanity.

>>723568516
Anarchy does not mean "no rules". It means "no rulers". Anarchists believe in rules and laws. Maybe you should actually learn about a subject before commenting on something you know nothing about.

>>723568784

y won't it happen? u read superintelligence?

>>723569288
Rules require enforcement, you utter fucking dolt.

>>723569213

Honestly I do that most anarchists have never tried to model everyday life under their system while incorporating bad actors. Everything falls apart without an authority to stamp down on edge cases - consenting committees just can't hack it.

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>>723569373
Again, I repeat, maybe you should actually learn about a subject before commenting on something you know nothing about. It is clear from your comments you have no idea what you are talking about.

>>723561619
Have you noticed how when a protest run by extremist socialists goes bad in a way that's not helpful to whatever socialist party is in power in a particular country (eg democrats in usa) the newspapers controlled by the socialists start referring to protesters as "anarchists?"

As a true anarchist, how does it make you feel that to this date, nobody knows what the fuck anarchy is really about?

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>>723561619
> be me
> use #NoGodsNoMasters on twitter and FB
> be a Libertarian, that waxes relativism and doesn't "believe in shit" but sees it as the superior way
> realize not putting capitalism or people's feelings about absurdist concepts/lifestyles is the high road
> not be an anarchist, or even an ancap but only a minarchist

>>723561738
I shouldn't have laughed at that

>>723561821
McAurthorism sees ideals or principals that enable communism as communism... not acknowledging the pathologies that enable the communists is part of the problem, believers in systems is part of the problem.

>>723569530
Oh... well, I guess since you said that...
>clearly he isn't aware of the non-aggression principle
Rules. Need. To. Be. Enforced.

You'd have to be mind-numbingly naive to think that a hierarchical power structure wouldn't arise from an abolished government.

>>723561619
>Hi /b/ i'm an idiot. Ask me anything.

Can you please kill yourself?

>>723569333
Because HIGH AI is a pipe dream. High AI means having the same intelligence as humans. Computers lack consciousness. We need to add consciousness onto a computer to make it self aware. Then the Singularity would start to look possible. What is consciousness and how do we add it to machines who do not understand but are simply manipulating symbols? That is the fundamental issue at hand.

>>723561619
>anarchist
>community organizer
kek

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>>723568324
>>723569124
Guys... this guy is either an irrelevant autist or a troll waxing collectivist egalitarian trash.

>>723569884
>says someone who has absolutely no idea what he's talking about

>>723569884

Alright, you clearly haven't read the literature but I'll give you the pitch.

The human brain exists in reality. Reality obeys physics - simple, mathematical laws - and such is a computable system. Ergo, a human brain can be simulated on a computer. Computers run much faster - billions of times faster - than a chemically based neural connection. As such, a simulated mind can be set a task and complete it in a negligible amount of time.

That all means that as soon as we have a AGI, that AGI will be able to self improve at an amazingly rapid rate.

No need for your invented concept of consciousness to play a part. Consciousness is probably just an emergent property of any sufficiently advanced form of life, and we can simulate life about as complex as a small insect right now.

Objections? Try to make them not rely on the soul, or consciousness, or any similar magical thinking, without explaining what you mean by the word.

>>723569830
If society is organized democratically, there's no need for a hierarchical power structure to exist.

For more information on what anarchism actually is, rather than the straw man you have created in your head, visit Infoshop's Anarchist FAQ.

>>723561619
Explain what the word anarchy means.
Simple as that.

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>>723569830
Yeah, the NAP would be self-enforced by citizens... person being put upon and neighbors, ideally. In a Minarchistan, it could be reinforced by the good-guy fuzz.

Beyond that, every system is people doing things. The invention of modern information-technology allows Anarchism to be much more viable an idea, than before.

>>723570002
Triggered me m8 and I am not even the troll OP. Anarchists tend to be low-brow progressives that want things done, but lack funds/resources and usually knowledge of how to do a thing... or government is standing in their way.

>>723570321
Made me laugh because community organizer made me think what if OP is retired president who is upset about the way the country is headed now?

>>723561619
It must be difficult being mentally challenged, how do you deal with having such a retarded political belief?

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>>723561619

I'm sympathetic to anarchism, particularly anarcho-syndicalism (although I believe Kropotik raised good points about the problems with syndlicalism in Conquest of Bread) but these days I'm increasingly skeptical of its ability to produce general wealth and a high standard of living when compared with Capitalism... and if Democractic Capitalism makes the average person wealthier than Democractic socialism, that's a big point in its favor. Do you have any compelling arguments for economic productivity in an anarchist society? All I've heard are rather vague references to the spanish revolutionary period.

>>723570276
>if society is organized democratically
>IF
So, how are rules enforced? How is the "non-aggression pronciple" enforced?

Btw, just because you don't have a good answer for something doesn't mean it's a strawman.

>>723570190
Technocrat reporting in... also wtf is an AGI?

woah... the chemical based neural connections are a complicated undertaking, you are VASTLY over selling the speed of computers as ideas are more than just 1 neural connection.

Meanwhile... RAMdisks, SSD PCIe 3.0, cluster servers working individual connections... could theoretically do that, if all known chemical interactions of the brain is known. Heck it could even simulate a chaos factor to create real AI... the trick is that servers only have to produce an AI as fast as a human to be relevant.

(but once the needed functions are known they can be scaled back to create an absolutely efficient interaction, without free will and the processing being a Slave AI... doing needed tasks for humanity, a warehouse of servers as a doctor)

>>723570660
Please, explain what the word anarchy means.

>>723570190

This post takes for granted a materialist interpretation of the universe and the idea that consciousness is an emergent phenomenon. It would be cool if it were, since it's pretty much required for true AI, but I'm not convinced it is.

>>723570743
Please, explain what the word technocracy means.

>>723570743
>without free will
>thinking humans have free will
See: Genetic and environmental constraints

>>723570850
not being totally convinced is fine, but I don't really see a single reason to assume otherwise.

I think anarchy is a lot simpler than this thread is making it out to be. This thread reminds me of Socialists/Communists/Fascists or several other political persuasions that simply deny critics because the "critic" doesn't know the true definition of whatever it is.

In other words, all you people are dorky faggots with no life. That's what I think.

Fucking gypsies using buzzwords to feel alternatively political hipsters.

>>723570748

It refers to a state "without rulers (or more broadly hierarchical power structures)". More specifically, it refers to a political ideology which attempts to maximize individual freedom by abolishing the state and other power disparities in human relationship, including those power disparities introduced by wealth disparities. It is therefore anti-capitalist, just as it is anti-state. It is generally anti-church due to the power structures inherent in most religions, although there is a Christian anarchist tradition with proponents like Leo Tolstoy.

>>723570984

I'm all for researchers trying to build one. I've tried myself in an amateurish way :-) I'm just not convinced it'll work due to the consciousness isssue. You don't know if you don't try, though.

>>723571045
The word came from the country I was born.
A = not.
Arch = lead.
No leaders, is what you're saying, so, I guess you're ok, though I should say, no leaders means a lot more shit than you think.. You know that, right?

>>723571212 (you)
It means no laws

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>>723561912
>sexuality is a social construct

Gas the degenerate

>>723570190
>>723570850
The mind is an emerging process, the idea of self-realization is an axiom of consciousness... Rene was right.

The brain's job as an organ is to measure reality, thus it works by its own logic even if it's informal. You only have to logically acknowledge a thing to feel about it. While the mammalian brain structure has been connected to wholistic relating to things and the right hemisphere has been connected to emotion-feeling. Thus I propose the right hemisphere's job is to summarize the abstract and emotional-feeling relation, due to reality not being a binary existence (thus formal logic not being inherently superior)... aka the "soul" is the connection of the summarized lost compulsions and urges from an emerging process.
> willpower is most a feeling of logically acknowledging logic on a subconscious level, instead of pursuing a feeling or emotion
> "what is" willpower is most likely stored in the right hemisphere liken the other emotion-feelings

tl;dr - I am oldfag.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gAMbkJk6gnE

>>723570743

Artificial General Intelligence - the idea being it can perform activities at a high level generally, not just a specialised system that excels at one task e.g. DeepMind's AlphaGo. Frankly you should be familiar with the acronym if you're going to say you know anything about transhumanism - even if English isn't your first language - it's like if I met someone who says they follow politics but they don't know what POTUS means.

You also look like a bit of an idiot naming random pieces of hardware that have nothing to do with ML research.

Lastly, free will clearly doesn't exist but that doesn't mean an AGI would only take actions we want. Look up AI safety research, and remember that any general intelligence would be like a genie - it would be almost impossible to get your instructions interpreted correctly by a machine that doesn't share all the heuristics and desires a human does

pls git gud>>723570743

Artificial General Intelligence - the idea being it can perform activities at a high level generally, not just a specialised system that excels at one task e.g. DeepMind's AlphaGo. Frankly you should be familiar with the acronym if you're going to say you know anything about transhumanism - even if English isn't your first language - it's like if I met someone who says they follow politics but they don't know what POTUS means.

You also look like a bit of an idiot naming random pieces of hardware that have nothing to do with ML research.

Lastly, free will clearly doesn't exist but that doesn't mean an AGI would only take actions we want. Remember that any general intelligence would be like a genie - it would be almost impossible to get your instructions interpreted correctly by a machine that doesn't share all the heuristics and desires a human does.

pls git gud

>>723570850

So what do you think consciousness is? I think the reductionist view (that is isn't really a thing) is the only one that matches reasonable priors and available evidence.

>>723571045
What power structures are acceptable then? You get on a granular enough level and you need some cooperation among individuals to do things like build infrastructure.

Or is anarchy just about not organizing past a certain point? Or maybe true anarchy is not organizing at all but since we live in such a hyper organized society with (in case of US) everything from recreational marijuana use to school cirriculum, a lot of us are anarchists relatively speaking - even though we do want some well defined organization somewhere - just not at the level it's at today.

>>723571323
I'm happy you used 5 Greek word for some reason, you know what those are?

>>723571212
>e

Yeah, but I'm not trying to write a book here. And really, pretty much all anarchist theory stems from the idea of no leaders and maximizing liberty. That's at the root of the rejection of capitalism and the state and the countless other power structures that various anarchist thinkers and branches of anarchist thought oppose... Anyway, I'd love to oppose capitalism but the world is full of examples of state socialism not generating nearly as much economic productivity. I'm not fully convinced anarchism can do much better, although it is different feeling like you're working for yourself than working for a boss/owner/corporation. Syndicalism helps with this because people feel like owners, but syndicalism has a sort of capitalism-between-communes aspect which could potentially lead to substantial wealth and power disparities itself... so... *shrug*

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>>723570907
> techno-
> -acracy
Rule by technocracy, roughly.

But how one does it and why is kinda more important, than the definition of a word.

>>723571449
Exactly, they shouldn't can their idea anarchic

>>723571323

The functional hemispherectomy (invented by Ben Carson!) is a treatment for epilepsy in which the epileptic hemisphere of the brain is severed from the healthy hemisphere and the body, allowing the healthy hemisphere to have full control of the body free from any epileptic interference. Children who get a functional hemispherectomy sufficiently early will be partly paralyzed on one side, but they will mostly be seizure-free.

There appears to be no difference between leaving the right side and the left side in control - both operations give you a somewhat disabled human, but righties aren't logical and lefties aren't emotional.

Total lateralization is bullshit.

>>723561619
Anarchism
It's not a state if we don't call it that

>>723570920
> regarding the social construct of social science as a mechanism to estimate human potential, then feel power over it
> pretending determinism is a highly advanced notion that you can some how grasp while trying to devalue human potential

Sorry degenerate, people can think.
Its just that degenerates besides you also exist.
> inB4 I am called a liberal communist when I meant environmental constraints and not genetics, when even lesser minds can be enhanced by learned pathologies of superior minds

>>723571536
The word we made, has a reason, Greek language is beautifully complex.
Techno = art or technical (Greek)
Cracy = government

>>723571535
Yeah, but not write a book here. Implementing the curriculum-from theory to born leaders and increasing the freedom. That is, in Mature capitalism, the government, and countless other structures, many individual thinkers in the branch of footwear, a thought ... and I'd love to see from the capitalism of the world, National Socialism is not to produce almost the same economic productivity. And all of anarchism can be and must be, different and feeling like please your work for the boss/owner organization. Syndicalism is popular, but syndicalism, variety of capitalism and regional characteristics could potentially lead to a very large wealth and power, the difference in their------*problems*

>>723571607
Work the invented Ben Carson!) It is for the treatment of epilepsy and the fit half of the brain cut from the health world, and body health tip completely from media interference. Children's work is partially paralyzed on one side and is to be penalty free.

>>723571745
Home>society and social Sciences as a mechanism for estimating the ability of human, and then feel the power in your
>The diagnosis is very high the notion that there can be a grasp when trying to devalue people

Your degenerate people think.
That's lower than present.
>inB4 called a liberal Communist time and context of the obstacles of genes even a little mind to be learning the disease better heart

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>>723561619
How is 2th grade doing ?

>>723571745
You're not too bright, are you? Your post is mostly incoherent.

Freedom is an absolute. There are very in degrees of DIFFICULTY of Will, but varying degrees of freedom doesn't make any sense. The fact is, every event that occurs in nature (neurological or otherwise) is the result of a maelstrom of causal relations that we have no control over.

>>723572136
>How is 2th grade doing?
>How is 2th
>2th

LOL.

>>723572183
Your not too bright. no? You are more incoherent.

Freedom is absolute. There is so much the degree of difficulty of the different degrees of freedom of any sense. This event, occurring in nature(nerve, vortex of cause-and-effect relationship.

>>723572185
They was good, topkek desu comeback

>>723572264
>That*

>>723572228
are you using google translate to reply with the same shit the other guy said, just after a few translations back and fourth?

>>723571607
> beta pseudo-intellectualism
The other side takes over the function... its just where the usual activities manifest. Your post only means the mammalian brain and reptilian brain guide the fuck out of the neo-mammalian brain (higher thought) structures.

>>723571457
stop being a beta fake intellectual, k thanks

>>723571386
oh, then I was talking about how an AGI would most reasonably be made. Knowing catch phrases is dick cheese, its all about the objectivity of reality.

Transhumanism unlikely to go anywhere I want in my lifetime so fapping to maybies that I am not a lead in designing is actually the act of an idiot.

Free will doesn't have to literally exist, but cosmically nothing is prove-ably above us to know-estimate it all. You only have to learn the physics, chemical interactions, and brainwave interactions to simulate the brain... then you can have the AI.

I am not a fan of learning macros with a few philosophical lines built in, unless they do the job needed.

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>>723572433
Triggered?

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>>723572519
Also, since you're the true intellectual, go ahead and explain the words you used.

>>723571975
Not sure what you posted, but I will try to respond.

Things are relative, trying to universalize a principal in a social science of estimating people (evolutionary psychology or something similar) tends to manifest as pseudo-intellectualist bullshit about saying humanity's urges are mainlined and lack self-determination or capacity to be more than that when the person making the point is trying to be above humanity with a word problem and determine those factors... its childish wishfulfillment, to feel safe against the scary unknown/other.

>>723572183
Comprehension is basic 3rd grade shit, m8.
Google, then reply or acknowledge you are a cuck.

>>723572228
This.

The stance they usually take is consequentialism, about how all things are predestined (determinism). When the truth is there is no one (proveable) above all the odds, or down the subatomic level that is keeping track of it.

So its close enough to free-will, that the discussion is irrelevant besides in physics. What the conversation really is is a wish fulfillment fantasy about the speaker being a god-like super-intellect above the free-will and self-determinations of others, so they won't have to deal with or consider the other scary thing.

#NoGodsNoMasters
That is classic pseudo-intellectual internet autist.

>>723573077
You're responding to some troll who's using Google translator to reply to posts. Moron: confirmed.

>>723564743
for someone who's an anarchist, your idea of capitalism is blatantly marxist. Capitalism means you as an individual has the ability to use and sell their own human capital, and own property/production of capital. Sure monopolies can exist in capitalism, but if people pay attention and have the ability to organize and boycott and the government doesn't have a ton of power to sell to said monopoly (again people have to pay attention) than we have the ability to starve and kill any monopoly.

>>723572383
yes - I actually am writing a script to do that. It goes english - swahilli - japanese - english.

I'll put up a site in the next day or two for others to use. In the meantime, seeing how many people I can piss off on /b/ with it.

>>723574202
People take the idea of capitalism is a blatant Marxist. Capitalism and the operational capabilities and sales of own human capital on the property. Many monopoly can exist in capitalism, and attention to organize a boycott of the government is not in the power sales monopoly(popular), capable of starving to death, even monopoly.

>>723561619
How many cops did you lynch last week you fucking nigger?