OK, I honestly don't get it. What's the controversy

>>722899601
Liberals are ill and will applaud the downfall of America if it makes them look good on kikebook.

>>722899601
It is costly to build, maintain and easy to get through.
People can dig tunnels, and find weak spots.
You can't simply build a wall without paying guards everywhere to check for holes 24/7.

That is why rednecks voted for him, even thought they didn't know that the wall was already part built in bush years, neither the search of how many that shit cost
>Hurr durr Mexico will pay for it
Then they realize Mexico didn't have the money, so no, nobody said it was evil, it is just retarded

>>722900083
>That is why rednecks voted for him
I guess most of America is rednecks then.

>>722899908
Then what is your solution?

>>722900300
No, he got fewer votes than his opponent, who got a low turnout herself.

A wall is a retarded solution for fixing an illegal immigration "problem" and asking mexico to pay for it is just all around shitty thing to do

>>722899908
Since when do liberals care about the cost of government projects. They had no problem with spending $800,000,000,000 on a stimulus package, but now they are up in arms over the cost of building the border wall?

>>722901171
>muh popular vote
The majority of America voted for Trump when it comes to electoral districts, which is the only thing matters.

Also, that doesn't change the fact that he won the election, and therefore a lot of Americans agree with his ideas.

>>722901320
The annual costs of illegal immigration at the federal, state and local level to be about $113 billion
http://www.fairus.org/DocServer/research-pub/USCostStudy_2013upd.pdf

I have nothing wrong with immigrants. I like immigrants. It's ILLEGAL immigrants that it the problem. And, yes, it IS a problem.

If I moved to another country without permission and didn't bother to learn the language everything would call me an asshole. Why the double standard?

>>722900845
Is like to see a deterrent... maybe landmind zone + gunners. Those get caught actual get punished before release.

In addition our immigration process should be stream lined. No more multi year waits to get approval or denial.

>>722899601
It's expensive, not to mention that it's possible to get into the US legally then stay illegally (which is common).

However, as much as the wall is mocked since it does nothing for keeping people from flying in then staying illegally, if someone's kicked out once then they can be banned from flying in, and the wall prevents them from sneaking in by other means.

It's expensive, not effective, and gives the USA a negative image.

>>722901363
Solid point.

It's a waste of time. Most II get in the country by flying in with visas.

>>722901936
Most? What is your source.

>>722902041
http://www.politifact.com/punditfact/statements/2015/sep/08/jorge-ramos/ramos-40-undocumented-immigrants-come-air/

Sure, maybe it doesn't border on most, but that doesn't change the fact that the wall does more harm than good.

>>722901668
Because America has no one national language.

>>722899908
That sounds like job creation to me anon

>>722899601
Waste of money
Ineffective

I guess it would put some money into the pockets of construction workers, but in all likelihood the firm that gets the deal will hire the cheapest available labor and that will probably be illegal immigrants or Mexicans.

A wall is a piece of a solution... not the sole solution. Even if it reduced iillegal immigration by 1% the US would be saving millions to billion a year.

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>>722899601
its expensive and unlikely to work

also illegals are useful for things like picking crops and building houses

The Effects of Immigration on the United States’ Economy

http://www.budgetmodel.wharton.upenn.edu/issues/2016/1/27/the-effects-of-immigration-on-the-united-states-economy

>>722902186
>politifact

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>>722900083
Another worthless libtard. See your party 20-30 years.

>>722902196
yes, it does fuck nut... I've never seen a god damn "slow traffic keep right" sign written in Albanian you retard; every street sign if written is written in English.

>>722901668
that article on the cost of illegal immigrants which may or may not be accurate, its hard to imagine you can get accurate figures on undocumented people. But thats really besides the point, you don't consider the tremendous benefit illegal immigrants add to our economy. They do jobs that no one else will really do in america, and on top of that because we can pay them less they take jobs that would otherwise be sent to mexico anyways. So instead of that money going to mexico it is spent here. The idea that you can look at what may or may not be accurate cost of illegal immigrants alone to assess the effects of illegal immigrants in america is taking an extremely narrow look at what is a really complex ordeal. Life simply is not that simple, sorry to break it to ya

>>722902186
This article says 40% by air. It is a till an article slinging mud with no study cited. Like a different post stated, it's a piece of a puzzle and not the only deterrent. I say all of this from a position that could care less if a wall is built or not.

>>722902302
At a cost 15 to 25 billion, that's only the construction.
Where do you get those yearly savings from 1% of a reduced illegal immigration impact?

>>722902574
This is not accurate. We do not have a nation language. There are many cities across the nation with signs in different languages. Fremont Ca. Comes to mind.

Why does the White House have an iron fence around it? Why do rich people live in neighborhoods surrounded by walls? If walls are so bad, why does the pope remain behind the walls of the Vatican?

If you don't believe in the wall, do you still lock the doors of your house?

>>722902932
pics or it didn't happen...

>>722902768
Purely annidotical statement. I have nothing to support this post.

>>722900845
remote snipers and drones.

Pay neckbeards and basement dwellers decent money to sit at home and shoot shit all day.

Also, to prevent tunneling, an underground labyrinth that is buried deep to just above the mantle. The only way in is to traverse a series of levels designed to train the border-crossers into high-fidelity assassins with a psychological fixation on eliminating Middle Easterners and serving their white American overlords.

Then the only way in 'illegally' ends up breaking you, or you never make it in.

Alternatively, you can just learn the constitution and provide credentials for being a quality contributor to our society.

>>722903066
Here you go

http://speisa.com/modules/articles/index.php/item.1192/usa-where-the-street-signs-have-changed-to-arabic.html

>>722899908
I like when people say people will just dig a tunnel forgetting all the famous walls that kept people out for fucking centuries.

>>722903038
That iron fence won't do much to stop someone trying to get in. The military guys patrolling the yard probably will though.

>>722899601
The american people are literally going to pay for it while its just a minor inconvenience for illegals to enter. The wall is more or less just to make the American people feel like less illegals are entering the country. Sure it might stop a few. But its a small percentage compared to the amount of illegals that will still enter the country. Its basically dumbos feather for the masses.

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>>722899601

>>722903522
Hahaha.

>>722903364
what language is the Constitution of the United States of America written in? Oh that's right... ENGLISH

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>>722899601

I think ya'll are forgetting about the possibility that mexicans might get a tourist visa, go in through the front gate and let it expire rendering the milti gorillion $ wall useless.

>>722899601
people are smart enough to realize america is built on cheap labor. The politicaians are protecting acmerica in a weird way by allowing Illegals. >

>No one wants those shit jobs anyway

>>722903364
what language is understood by the VAST majority of Americans? ENGLISH FUCK HEAD... therefore, national language.


Language Spoken at Home (U.S. Census Bureau, American Community Survey 2011)
English only – 231,947,071.
Spanish – 37,579,787.
Chinese – 2,882,497.
Tagalog – 1,594,413.
Vietnamese – 1,419,539.
French – 1,301,443.
Korean – 1,141,277.
German – 1,083,637

A nation without secure borders is not a nation

>>722902586
I was going to dissect Your post. But after reading it. In poo sitive your me a troll. On the slim slim slim chance you're not.
Then you're fucking retarded.

>>722899601
>Seriously, I don't get it.
There's nothing to get. They're stupid. A country without strong borders is no longer a country. Look at Europe being practically invaded with no power to stop them.

Vote accordingly and laugh at autistic screeching along the way.

>>722903600
It is written in English and Latin. Even if it was only English, there are no articles or admendments that state we have a national language.

Being a white make who refuses to learn another language I wish this wasn't the case. Fucking Forfathers

>>722902932
We do not have an official language at the federal level, but every state has only English as it's official language with the exception of Hawaii (English, Hawaii) and Louisiana (English, French).

>>722899908
wasn't he going to hire 5000 ppl to patrol the wall? that's like three every mile avg

>>722903860
Sorry this news angers you.

Build the wall and end anchor babies

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>>722899601

1 - A wall won't stop people coming in, there's hundreds of tunnels, and it's easy enough to build a couple 50ft a ladders

2- You can't build a wall along 700 miles of ravine cliff face net to the rio grande in texas

3- Immigration from mexico peaked in 2007, it's been in decline, and in 2013 more people went BACK to mexico than came to the USA

4- It's an extremely expensive and pointless project when our school system has major issues, we don't have healthcare for all citizens, we need new infrastructure, bridges, roads, solar farms, wtc... it's a complete waste of money and will cost like 40 billion,.... essentially for nothing.

>>722899601
incredibly expensive
it will work as well as the stupid fence did at stopping illegal immigration
terrible for wildlife in the area

>>722904223
FUCK YOU

>>722902196
look faggot im sorry to burst your bubble but it's English

>>722899601
I think it's a cool idea and I don't care how much it costs.Even if they were building a fucking 100 billion dollar castle made of candy,I'd be for it because it's unusual and interesting.

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>>722903916

Tell that to the Rhythm Nation.

>>722901363
1/3 of the stimulus package cost was tax cuts, oh the stimulus worked btw, unlike this stupid wall

>>722899601
It prevents the tired, poor, huddled masses yearning to breathe free from fleeing adversity in their shit country.

>>722903292
first sensible thing ITT

>>722904435
I think all of those non English speakers are doing the fucking.

>>722904470
Source?

>>722900300
>>That is why rednecks voted for him
>I guess most of America is rednecks then.
Actually , most of America did not vote for him.
He won the electoral college and thus became President. He lost the popular vote. So most of America voted for Hillary, not Donald.

>>722903775
I don't really care if no one wants them. If you're unemployed you should either be picking oranges or cleaning toilets or you should die. There are so many fucking people not working (more than the unemployment figure, which doesn't count people who stop looking for work)

>>722904393

also unless we hire about 6000 full time boarder guards at 40K a year each plus benefits, and give them all night vision goggles and subterranean tunnel detection equipment to patrol the wall 24/7 then the wall won't do a fucking thing.

Come to think of it if we just hired those guys we wouldn't need a fucking wall in first place. They would be enough.

Why the fuck are we building a fucking wall? Are the fucking white walkers coming? Is this Feudal China?

>>722904752
>He lost the popular vote.
Remove two counties from the results and Trump would have won the popular vote too

>>722904681
I will fuck you in that loose abscess you call an asshole, til' you die you faggot.

>>722904744
that 90+% of people here speak English. I guess we could all switch to spanish but I don't see why. we should all be speaking the same thing

>>722902302
>1%
>billions
>illegal immigration costs the US $200billion per year apparently
>being this retarded

>>722899601
A wall would have been built decades ago if it weren't for big business wanting illegal immigration (cheap, vulnerable, labor). There will be no wall.

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>>722903292

May I suggest a balrog or two for the labyrinth?

>>722904996
Sounds legit

>>722901624
>>therefore a lot of Americans agree with his deas

"New numbers just released by Gallup show the slide continues. Trump's numbers dropping to 38 percent approval and 56 percent disapproval."

Seems like a lot more don't.

But that's just fake news, don't worry your little head over it.

>>722905086
Fuck it, sure.

Mexico is paying for it anyways

>>722899601
Wall is a waste of money that is better spent on border agents and recon/surveillance equipment. The number crunching is been done. If we can't take care of our damn highways imagine maintaining hundreds of miles of that shit. It's also very impractical in a myriad of ways from land rights to insane terrain. Money for wall is better spent targeting the source of migration in that form of foreign aid. Remember too that a lot of these people are seasonal farm workers. You'll actually be keeping them trapped in. And most illegal immigrants actually come in legallybypassing wall completely.
It's not logical desu. Are most you want a fence in areas because you can't see through concrete.

remove millions of votes and the outcome would have been different.

YOUDONTFUCKINGSAY.PDF

>>722904916

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>>722903364

>>722899601
easy solution is to punish people caught hiring illegals. A 30% fine on pre-tax income would be a great deterrent. Wall is worthless.

>>722899601
>OK, I honestly don't get it. What's the controversy with a border wall? If it's illegal to for someone to come over into the US without following legal routes, why is so evil to stop them?
1.) It won't work
2.) It will cost us 21 billion plus
3.) Mexico is most certainly not paying for it
4.) Pointless because the net influx of illegal immigrants is near zero anyway.
5.) It will cut water access to the Colorado to many farmers on the border, because they aren't going to build it in Mexico

>>722905032
does anyone know how much money you have to pay in taxes in the United States to be a net benefit? Like if I make 0 money and pay 0 taxes and I'm out there breathing the clean air and wearing down the roads, I'm costing people money, obviously. at what point am I worth the price?

>>722904916

Then make dinosaurs alive again, and lasers effective weapons, and we'd be living in some kid of dino-riders future battle world!

The imagination game is FUN! Let's keep playing!

I read 300 billion 1134.00 dollarsfor every US household

>>722905272
ur fucking autistic if you think mexico is paying for it. Trump literally just put a 20% tax on all mexican goods that are bought in America. Meaning that the American people are paying for the fucking wall. NOT MEXICO. Fucking dipshit

>>722905395
if you make zero money and pay zero taxes your ass isn't driving anywhere.

did you imply air is a limited resource in this country?

>>722901857
>Solid point.
You have been Conwayed dude. The Stimulus package has nothing to do with the wall.

>>722900300
He got crushed in that popular vote. And no, you can't have 5 mil people vote from surrounding areas. That's a monumental effort just moving them. And why would they bus them into states that didn't matter to win? He's a fucking retard

>>722905278
>remove millions of votes

I'm talking about counties specifically. Do you know how many counties there are in the United States? Over 3,000. Remove 2 and he won the popular vote.

You might just build a wall around your city and deport all illegals there instead.

>>722905484
really... how long do you think it's going to be until that starts hurting Mexican exports and they come walking to the negotiating table with their tail between their legs?

>>722904916
and that does actually matter because urban centers are basically just undifferentiated liberal hive minds--it doesn't matter if there are a million or a billion of them, they'll all think the same stupid way

>>722905018
Following this logic there is a national race and a nation religion as well.

Pretty soon, we'll have to solve entire fucking crossword puzzles for the Captcha. I just wanted to say that. Oh, and also, fuck Canada. Canada sucks.

Your paying for it dipshit with your jails and your schools

>>722902297
>hire the cheapest available labor and that will probably be illegal immigrants or Mexicans.

Oh the irony. I can totally see this scandal happening. We like cheap fruit and veggies and we want a cheap wall

>>722899601
Because "le burnt cheeto XD" supports it

>>722899601
Article 13.

(1) Everyone has the right to freedom of movement and residence within the borders of each state.

>>722905658
it doesn't after what you were talking about. it was retarded thing to say.

>if you take away two touchdowns the Falcons wound have won the superbowl. it's only two.

yeah but you can't. and the hypothetical proves nothing except how dumb you are.

>>722905692
Jesus Christ you are stupid... I supposed you think the national language of Spain is Chinese because they don't expressly state it in their laws?

>>722905664
>urban centers are basically just undifferentiated liberal hive minds
Exactly and that's why all the polls were wrong because they all originated for D.C., LA and NY. Once they traveled outside of their bubble they realized there's a whole world out there and shit bricks.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6Qi_IipZVG8

>>722902355
Kek, didn't trump go there? His own school tells him he's wrong.

>>722905876
Right... States. We currently have 50.

>>722905987
Yes, he went to Wharton

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>>722905839
First Memesident of the United States of America

>>722905919
the official language of Spain is Castilian because they DO specifically state it in their laws.

you. YOU are stupid.

>>722905919
It's expressly stated in Spanish law that Spanish is the official language of Spain.

>>722905919

Guess our national car is the Toyota Corolla. Better update the Constitution

>>722899601
>What's the controversy with a border wall
It would cost an insane amount
It would be hard or even impossible to build
Treaty that won't allow it
Won't help the problem

>>722905884
It's accurate

Butt still hurt

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>>722904378
THIS

>>722903373
Someone doesn't know what a sapper was, kek. Undermining walls has been siege warfare 101 for centuries

What's your solution

To me it's not about whether it's illegal or not. I grew up in Texas not having wall didn't hurt us at all. We're doing just fine. I love Texas the way it is. We don't need a fucking wall around us. And if you want the wall that's fine but you need to pay for it because Making me pay for it is communism

>>722906016
The Universal Declaration of Human Righs is recognized in 193 sovereign states.

>>722904378
Shhh, don't tell /pol/ this. They have limited debate skills so you'll be called a shill and cuck like clockwork. They sure are oblivious for being"red pilled"

>>722905876
>within the borders of
Not
>across the borders of

>>722902302
>A wall is a piece of a solution... not the sole solution. Even if it reduced iillegal immigration by 1% the US would be saving millions to billion a year.
How? I think Georgia might disagree with you. When they got rid of their immigrants their peaches rotted. When you get rid of people, those people no longer buy US products or services. US workers don't want the jobs they do so farmers have to pay more to find anyone to pick their crops and their crops become non competitive. When products become non competitive people go to other countries to buy (import). The trade imbalance becomes worse and more Americans lose their jobs. Trump is trying to make America have the greatest recession it has ever had. So your statement that we would be saving millions to a billion a year is nonsense

>>722906304
so is saying if a frog had wings he wouldn't bump his ass when he hopped.
it's still a totally stupid thing to say.

>>722905568
forget air, but the only reason we're not overrun with barbarian hordes is that we have an extremely expensive military and police, so even being alive and unraped costs money, and if you're not paying it, someone is. pretty simple concept really

>>722906149
... I can use google too retard, go fuck yourself

>>722899601
the problem is its not going to work, and it's going to be obscenely expensive.

>>722906218
you're a Toyota corolla

>>722906433
Thank you. I thought about us having more after I posted. I didn't know there are currently 193.

>>722901363
>They had no problem with spending $800,000,000,000 on a stimulus package
You are now aware that most of the stimulus was buying up stocks. Meaning that when the stock market returned to stability, they could sell that stock back. AT A PROFIT.

>>722906757
maybe you should have before you made yourself look like a moron.

We do not need illegal
St wandering our cities and states

>>722905692
yes, the national race is white and the national religion is Christianity (for the time being anyway...)

oh gosh I really hope you don't think I did racism

>>722899601
It's not worth the billions of taxpayer dollars

>>722904205
So each has cover a distance of around 530 meters. You tell me how secure a wall is that is 530 meters wide and has only one guard to take care of. The whole disgussion is just about the impracticability of the whole thing. You will have to pay building it, maintaining it and the people patrouling. I can imagine there is better ways to spend your taxes.

>>722903373
You mean like Hadrian's Wall, the one that

>DIDN'T FUCKING WORK?

>>722906185
suck my dick IDGAF

>>722899601
>why is so evil to stop them?

The answer is who in their right mind cares about some Mexicans coming to the US to work?

Oh right bunch of fucking morons.

>>722906651
The wall isn't to prevent work visas or immigration. It's is a piece of puzzle to address illegal immigration.

>>722906838
Anon doesn't know how to because he is stupid.

>>722901668
The problem is that immigration is an insane maze of crazy bureaucracy. To become a bona fide immigrant requires a lot of luck. Even then, Drumps banned legal immigrants anyway.

What's more, American agribusiness would implode without a steady stream of immigrants to do the work.

>>722906927
Then why did you reply...HOLY FUCK TRUMP IS ON /b/!

>>722899601
Vast majority of illegal immigration is when people overstay on a visa. They typically come on airplanes. The wall is a political distraction.

>>722905663
Even a gop Congress won't let this stupid idea happen. Because Mexico will do the same to us and we sell them a lot of heavy equipment. Once again hurting American workers.
Also automation took more jobs than any Mexicans could dream of

>>722906808
:) 'Merica

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>>722906988
>>722906838
>same fagging this hard...

>>722906703
You're right It is a totally stupid thing to say. Almost as stupid as bringing up the popular vote to begin with since that's not how we elect a president.

The guy that got killed in my state this week by an illegal that was drunk

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>>722906960
>It's is a piece of puzzle to address illegal immigration.

What illegal immigration? You aren't stopping Eurofags, Indians, Canadians, or Chinese illegals with a wall along the Mexican border.

>>722907063
Why would immigration stop? That's not what a wall is addressing.

>>722906838
IDGAF I'm going to fuck your mom in the ass later faggot

>>722903988
nice arguments

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>>722907120

>>722907063
Yes. Our system is shit. It is another piece of that puzzle that needs fixing.

>>722907120
Told you he is stupid.

>>722907065
Have you ever been on /b/ before?!
... I remember my first beer.

Jesus Christ this place really is dead

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>>722906106
I honestly hate this man. I knew he was a con ever since the apprentice show. It wasn't based on business fundamentals. At best loosely.

>>722907308
do you need to Google how to fuck first?

>>722904752
>most of America voted for Hillary

Wrong

63,000,000 votes for Hillary

318,000,000 people

20% is not "most" of America

>>722902312
Yeah god knows no white dude could figure out a leaf blower

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>>722907452

>>722907469
nah, your mom is going to tell me how she likes it.

>>722907241
Nope. You are correct it's not addressing those.

>>722907166
almost.
but not quite. since it's not a hypothetical and all

>>722906812
Not him but do you know what a sovereign state actually is?

>>722907395
hurr durr, you showed him...

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>>722904478
this is why i come to /b/....thanks /b/ros im off to bed after that one

>>722907530
one more thing you didn't know that someone had to spell out for you. I guess being a moron is a regular thing for you

>>722907419
You liken having your first beer to the first time you went on 4chan? Time to kys

>>722903038
You are talking as if no one had ever jumped a wall or fence anon.

>>722899908
Agreed, didn'the the head of homeland security say that we should focus more on the actual drug cartels if that's what we are worried about?

>>722907672
How's that bait taste, faggot?

>>722907691
AHAHAHAHAHAHAHA.... one second, hold on, hold on... AHAHAHAHAHAHAHAAAAAAAAAAAAHHAHAHAHAH my God, you are fucking retarded.

>>722907293

Immigration from Mexico has slowed due to demographics.

http://www.pewhispanic.org/2015/11/19/more-mexicans-leaving-than-coming-to-the-u-s/

>>722906896
You could do a lot of things like drive along the wall, concentrate on areas that see more activity, etc. It can be built and yes, will be imperfect like anything, but it will reduce the number of people who cross

there are better ways to spend my money than on black metal t-shirts, anime figurines, bad dragon dildos and monster energy drinks, but I want all of those things as well as a big fucking wall along our southern border to keep out Mestizos

>>722902302
... And that post is what happens when people make choices based on their fantasies rather than on reality.

>>722907570
There's nothing hypothetical about it. Take away 2 out of over 3,000 counties and Donald Trump won the popular vote. That's factually accurate.

Do you even math?

>>722907509
Yeah, I admit it. CIA is going to Lee Harvey Oswald his ass soon anyway.

>>722907590
Of course. It's that hairy area between the balls and butt hole

No body cares.
It is a ruse to rustle your gimmies.

>>722907836
you tell me...

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>>722907419
>... I remember my first beer.

I remember fucking your mom the first time. I was lucky. I'm not proud. But at least I'm not your dad either.

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>>722899601
It's retardedly expensive to create, which will come from "our" pockets.
Then manning the fuckin thing will be even more expensive and pointless

>100,000,000,000,000 on a wall
>500 for a tall ladder

>>722904378
and most importantly: more than half mexican illegal immigrants arrived by plane and overstayed their visa...

>>722899601
OP, you want to know why the trouble and expense of a wall isn't worth it? I'll tell you:

They'll go over it.
They'll tunnel under it.
They'll sail around it.
They'll fly over it.
They'll smuggle themselves in right across the border in some way or other.

You think I'm full of shit? The Cartels have been doing this shit for YEARS and YEARS now, and so have the Coyotes to a lesser extent. Meanwhile we've been trying to stop them -- to no avail. It's an endless game of Whack-A-Mole, and we lose no matter WHAT we do.

Building more fences, walls, ALL that shit? It's just empty, pointless window-dressing, paying lip service to the 'illegal immigration problem', and in the end it will accomplish NOTHING. It's just more clueless nonsense from one Donald J. Trump, who is just a showman and a loudmouth, not fit to be the leader of the Free World.

Meanwhile, while he's grandstanding to his support base, the rest of the world is alternately disgusted with the U.S. more than they ever have been, and laughing at us for having such a clown in the White House. If he actually survives the entire 4 years without being impeached and run out of office for one reason or another (if not outright convicted of high treason) he'll be replaced -- and whoever that poor bastard is will spend the next 8 years trying to untangle the MESS they're left with, assuming that is there's still a country to run at that point.

NO, I DID NOT VOTE FOR THAT CUNT HILLARY CLINTON, EITHER, so STFU.

>>722908019
You Trumpcucks get in these threads then whine, pout and cry until you sadly leave to go fap to traps. You know what you are.

>>722903988
>your me a troll
Nigga wut!?

>>722907891
hysterics is common amongst dimwits

>>722900083
America owes Mexico 27.7 BILLION dollars... BY saying mexico will pay for the wall, TRUMP said (that ur cnn always forgets to mention) that the dept will be drastically cut... SO IN TERMS hes correct... instead of owing Mexico 27.7 billion USA will only owe them 10billion est.
Deal with it.

>>722907962
since you can't do that, it's literally a hypothetical

>>722901363

Except we sold back everything we bought for a profit.

"The U.S. government essentially closed the books on TARP with a $15.3 billion profit.

Treasury sold its remaining shares Friday in Ally Financial, its last remaining major stake from the $426 billion bailout of banks and the U.S. auto industry. "

http://money.cnn.com/2014/12/19/news/companies/government-bailouts-end/

Because it won't work, will take forever to build and won't be maintained in the future, will likely be scrapped once trump is out, will hemorrhage money worse than the big dig did in MA (constantly rising cost vs projected cost), will be money spent that could be used in maintaining and expanding infrastructure (bridges are barely standing in areas for fucks sake), and ultimately is just a terrible plan with no forethought whatsoever. That's Trump, though. He wants what he wants and damn the logistics, logic, or financial wisdom.

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>>722899601
There's a lot of problems.

(1) It does nothing to address the real issues of illegal immigration. The majority of people in the United States came here legally through temporary work visas and other programs and just didn't leave when their program expired. A wall would do nothing to fix this issue.

(2) It is a $20 billion project that can be outwitted with a $30 ladder.

(3) It would require massive implementation of eminent domain to secure all of the necessary land to build the wall.

(4) There are hundreds of species, many of which are endangered, that routinely cross the US-Mexico border for everything from mating to simply traversing their habitat. As a conservation ecologist this issue really matters to me and building a structure like that would have devastating ecological impacts across thousands of miles of habitat.

(5) Taking into account 1-4, its clear that the wall is really just a poorly conceived attempt at political posturing. American taxpayers (something Trump isn't) should not have to pay $20 billion for an ineffective structure when we have thousands of bridges across the country that could desperately use the funding. It's nothing but an attempt to capitalize on the flagrant racism of the conservative voting base.

(6) Lots of Mexicans are actually fleeing the US at the moment. Logistically speaking the wall would also require Mexicans to jump it going back to Mexico. So the only possible benefit America could gain from the wall is a small jump in the stock of Carlo's Climbables, a popular ladder store in southern Texas. That is not worth the investment that would be required to build the wall.

(7) The wall is just a way to shit on Mexico and there's no good reason to alienate them. We should be finding a way to help them handle their drug cartels by stopping the problem at the source. The fences we currently have stop only a negligible fraction of the drugs flowing into this country and Trumps wall wont be any more efficient.

>>722907891
>>722907831
>>722907959
So what is the reality?

>>722899601
It's Pathological Altruism, known in the past as living in an Ivory Tower.

Because people don't cross borders like you'd think they would, most come over by plane. Visiting family or going on "vacation" then staying. A wall is just wasting tax payers money while only creating temporary jobs and only a FEW permanent job. You know damn well Mexico isn't going to pay for that wall and rightfully so.

>>722908162
Sorry Pablo, time to go back home

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>>722899601
because george soros and carlos slim are literally changing reality

>>722907096

Yeah the job market change was progress, not mexicans. Trump wants to go back to a 1960's economy where we needed steel mills. Dude lives in a dream world and don't understand the driving forces behind the changes he's trying to undo.

>>722899601
Libs and muzzies complained about the Israeli palestinian wall, too. Said it wouldn't work. They were so butthurt because it was effective at stopping palestinian bombers from getting in, so it would hurt their cause.

>>722908247
>I can't do math so no one else can
That's the spirit

>>722906960

It won't address anything. We need to help mexico stabilize its economy, and society. Then they won't need to come over.

>>722908085
This has to stop as well. Round them up, lash them and drop them on the other side of the gate

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Why is America focused on hating spics again?

I would be more concerned with the niggers that go looting and rioting every time some cop shoots a nigger.

>>722899601
Because it doesn't solve the problem, ineffective without boarder guards on the fence with the requisite support to chase down people trying to cross illegally, most illegals are people who entered the country legally and stayed beyond what the visa allowed, and it's impitus is usually some combination of fear and hatred.

>>722907962
>Take away 2 out of over 3,000 counties and Donald Trump won the popular vote. That's factually accurate.
Take away Texas, Florida, and Pennsylvania and Hillary Clinton won the electoral vote. That's also factually accurate.

Because it's a colossal waste of time, money, and effort. Due to the failure of the War On Drugs, Mexican Drug Cartels are more powerful than ever. They've dug and constructed a network of tunnels into the US decades ago. The means of subverting the wall already exist, and anyone who thinks it'll make our country secure is a fucking idiot who doesn't know the reality of how these cartels operate.

I'm against illegal immigration myself. The thing is, the only way you're gonna solve it is if you target the demand for illegal labor, rather than the supply. Basic market function dictates that so long as a demand exists, the supply will be met. We need to prosecute, imprison, and seize the assets of companies and individuals who exploit illegal labor as a means of enriching their businesses.

The best way to combat the problem of illegal immigration would be an organized effort to destroy the demand of their labor. There are entire industries in this country who've built their fortunes off of exploiting illegal labor. Everyone from wealthy individuals looking for a Mexican Nanny to exploit, to the CEO's of large corporations (fast food, agricultural, and hotel chains) need to be arrested and fined for their involvement in fueling the demand for illegal labor.

That won't happen though, as Trump is another Chrony Capitalist who won't lift a finger to hamper corporate interests. As it stands right now, his plan to deport illegals will only be a minor inconvenience to the business owners who profit and thrive off of the exploitation of labor. If a demand exists, there will always be a supply to meet it, regardless of what the government does.

The wall won't do anything. It will only give another section of the black market to Cartel and Coyote organizations, to empower and enrich their operations.

>>722908650
How would you personally go about doing this? Out of curiosity of course because I feel the main problem holding Mexico back are the cartels.

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>>722908833
Yes

>>722908625
trying to discount things that actually happened isn't math genius

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>>722908821
only black lives matter! you ignorant asshole

wildlife you retarded nigger mountain lions and other big cats and the impalas or whatever the fuck grazes that way

>>722908162
Australia isnt laughing at the USA. In fact we are actually impressed you of all countries were one of the first to be red pilled.
Cartels have being doing this for years yes... but who has actively tried to stop them? as their main focal point of putting a halt to it?
You have the spotlight on it now, and lets say that this wall works... look thats awesome news it worked... but lets say it doesnt... the spotlight will be shown down on the issues or what the illegals are doing and more people will wake up and see just how terrible they are. All you cunts in the northern states have no clue the crime and general disgustingness that is happening down there and you all sit back accusing them of being uneducated and rednecks yet this is the problem they are faced with, a problem no other president has declared to fix. Trump will fix this issue for them... be it in a walls success or its failure. And trust me, no one wants to be like Germany right now... they are literally being raped of their land and citizens all for this "political correct" nonsense.

>>722909007
Let's just make it easier for you.

Numbers minus numbers equal numbers. True or False?

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>>722908821
we can't live out our cuck fantasies without black people

>>722908650
Is the US also obligated to "fix" all the other countries to our south? Sure are a lot of them. Didn't know they were asking for our help.

>>722901832
This, in a nutshell. Plus, there really hasn't been an actual problem with illegal immigration in nearly a decade. It's just an expensive, basically useless solution to a problem the U.S. doesn't actually have. It's mostly just about playing into people's fears that jobs suck right now because of Mexicans, rather than automation and globalization. I'm all for tightening up the borders, but a physical wall is like a middle schooler's solution.

>>722909246
you're not subtracting numbers. you're pretending events that happened didn't happen to prove a point. which you cannot do. which is why your point is bullshit.

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>>722908821
niggers might steal merchandise from time to time, but spics do far more damage by stealing american jobs

>>722902448
Here's a thought: How about both of you speak to each other with some common courtesy? There's no need to get petty just because you see things from different perspectives.

>>722909904
>Numbers minus numbers equal numbers
>you're not subtracting numbers

Okay. So you're legit retarded. Glad we cleared that up

>>722908892

Not the OP, but a good start would be in overturning the trade policies set by NAFTA. NAFTA was a death nail in Mexico's economy, and sabotaged the entire agricultural industry within that country. The reason why so many Mexicans are willing to risk life and limb to illegally come to this country is because of the economic devastation NAFTA left in it's wake. We need more anti-globalist economic actions taken in this country. Trump has voiced his support in such actions, but it remains to be seen whether or not he'll really follow through with it. I'm hopeful he will. NAFTA needs to be abolished and dismantled.

Will it solve all of Mexico's problems? Probably not, but it will be a good start. Ending the disastrous War On Drugs would also be a good thing, as it will cripple the Cartels who currently control most of Mexico. But again, it's hard to tell if President Trump has the means and the will to do such things.

>>722909195
But Anon, they ARE rednecks, they ARE undereducated, and they ARE part of the problem.

You just don't get it, none of you do: Build all the goddamned walls you want, IT WILL SOLVE NOTHING. The problem is the entire nation of Mexico. It's de-facto run by the Cartels, and the Mexican government is so thoroughly corrupt that it'll never stop. You fix Mexico, kill off the Cartels, make living in Mexico something better than a death sentence, and the illegal immigration problem WILL SOLVE ITSELF. They come here, ILLEGALLY, because their lives are WORTH NOTHING if they stay in Mexico.

You want some sort of 'extreme' solution? Here's one: We go to WAR WITH MEXICO. We issue an ultimatum: Get rid of the Cartels, clean up your act, OR WE INVADE AND TAKE OVER YOUR COUNTRY, KILL OFF THE CARTELS FOR YOU. Would probably take about 10 years though, and we'd fuck what's left of our reputation with the majority of the rest of the world, and might start World War 3. But ASSUMING that didn't happen, and Mexico didn't suddenly become best buddies with, say, China or Russia, we MIGHT just kill off the Cartels, their corrupt government, and raise the standard of living for the average Mexican -- who would likely hate us anyway. Then we're the Empire of America and the corporations can get all the cheap labor they want and not 'import' anything.

Sound like a plan?

No?

Then what's your better idea that doesn't involve some retarded-ass WALL that WON'T DO ANYTHING?!

>>722910173
This sounds good. Mexico politicians should work on it

>>722899601
There isn't one. Liberals are actually fucking insane. That's all.

They want illegal immigrants for no reason. They want rapefugees for no reason. They think everyone who disagrees with them rare racist or some stupid shit for no reason.

Dumbasses.

>>722899601
Because it's the fuckers that lure them over that are never punished. THEY just get richer and richer, pointing and shouting, "Look, over there, Illegals, you dumbfucks." And dumbfucks we are.

>>722910283
>You fix Mexico

No u

>>722910283
read what I said... Even if the wall does nothing... then it shows EVERYONE how messed up mexico is and they will be united in solving the issue. Right now if Trump declared war people will rush to mexicos aid allowing it to exsist as corrupt and fucked up as it always has been... wont solve shit and he would get impeached for doing so. You need everyone to know of the problem before they will agree with a drastic tactic like that.

>>722899601
It is a waste of tax payers dollars and is against a large portion of the work force. Also it is somewhat racist because there is no wall on the border of a majority white country known as Canada.

>>722910164
people walking into a voting booth and casting a ballot is an action, not a number.
you're attempting to over simplify it because your reasoning is as poorly thought out as your original point.

>>722899601
Here's a few things wrong with the 'wall'
>expensive as fuck
>won't actually stop illegals
>the terrain is too rough to actually build the wall over it, meaning America would have to build inward of their border, losing a substantial amount of its own land

>>722899601
instead build a mine field its low cost sends a message and gets the job done

>>722910173
Right, I remember him mentioning NAFTA but I wasn't too familiar with it. Thanks for the info.

>>722899601
Who the fuck said it was evil? You need to stay away from Fox News kid.

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>>722899601
dont mind the wall i mind that its costly as fuck to build it and maintain it without hurting taxpayers. not to mention that the wall only cover less than half the problem because half of illegals come from airports with visas that end up overstaying hence becoming illegals. the other less known or overlooked part of the problem comes from the sea shores though lesser illegals come from there out of the other two.

>>722900845
Not taxing you for some bullshit?

>>722903860
is this poor guy retarded?

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>>722911060

>>722911224
Doubt this is cheaper but fully agree with fortifications. Would like to see our immigration stream lined to allow for more lega immigration and be very hard nosed and no tolerance to illegal immigration. Catch and release that we do now is not a deterrent

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Watching stupids try to understand politics is always a surreal experience. It's especially entertaining when, like on /b/, you get this Dunning-Kruger demographic of horrifically stupid subnormals who are convinced of their own utter brilliance pontificating on things they don't understand.

To address your question, OP, I suspect you're probably not smart enough to understand, but I'll make a good faith attempt to explain it. First, there is no way the wall will be 100% effective. The Berlin Wall was only 66 miles long, and every inch of it was patrolled by snipers, machine gun nests, mines, and barbed wire -- and people still made it across. The Israelis have more or less given up trying to stop the tunnels under their wall, estimating there are anywhere from 10-40 of them in operation at any given time. Furthermore, you have TWO ENTIRE FUCKING OCEANS on either side.

Second, when Arizona passed a bunch of anti-immigrant laws, every business in the state -- including the ones run by Republicans -- screamed bloody murder because the economy dived straight into the toilet. They quietly lifted the laws to allow all the illegal labour to seep back in.

But my suspicion is none of this will make the slightest impact on you. Prove me wrong, OP.

>>722910855
I guess I agree but, then again Canada is better because you don't see them running the border.

>>722899601
it will be useless and cost too much money. I don't want illegals either but they'll find ways around it like they always do. The coastguard is spread thin enough as it is, they have almost no chance of catching illegal boaters.

>>722901171
No she got 2 million illegal votes n besides we aren't a democracy we are a republic that's why the ec works

>>722911039
I'm not attempting anything. Numbers minus numbers equal numbers. You're dumb

>>722912065
>muh "can't stop em all!!1!"
70% is still 70% fewer you dumb cuck

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>>722903669
>lmao
You do know Reagan's administration helped immigration reforms like crazy. Look up Immigration Reform and Control Act of 1986

>>722912493
You realize that's an urban legend, right? Some rando on Twitter made up a "3 million illegal votes" figure, and Breitbart ran a story saying there were "reports of up to 3 million illegal votes" in response. Fox picked it up from Breitbart, Herr Drumpf picked it up from them, and vomited it into the tender ears of morons like you. But then, when have facts ever mattered to you Trumplorable idiots?

>>722899601
Mainly just because it's a poor solution that won't work very well and will cost billions of dollars.

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The only issues i have with it are 1) it won't stop anyone and 2) it's attacking a symptom while ignoring the disease - which is individuals and companies that rely on criminally cheap labor to bolster their profits and maximize executive/administrative/management bonuses. If we attacked the people hiring illegals and shut them down (a business death penalty is needed) they wouldn't be coming here for jobs, and American workers could get appropriate wages to do the jobs illegals used to do.


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>>722899601
theres no controversy with rational people. most normal people want to feel safe and want the borders of the country guarded.

leftwing extremists want to see the country burn, so theres that.

>>722899601
ggjhgj

>>722913414
this

>>722912540
except when they aren't numbers. you're simple

>>722900845

You don't need to offer a solution to recognize bullshit.

>>722913596
It's okay kiddo, adults are in charge now. We'll handle important stuff like math

>>722913596
Here are your numbers.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LPjzfGChGlE

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>>722912566
See if you can understand basic economics, since you clearly fail at... well, everything else. The "War on Drugs" not only did not stop any drugs, it actually resulted in an INCREASE in drugs because it made drugs super-profitable. An entire industry grew up around it because of the amount of profit involved. If you build your idiot wall, all that will happen is it will create a large and profitable industry smuggling people inside.

Get it? Of course you don't. You're the same fucking morons who voted a narcissistic incompetent into office because muh emailz.

>>722899601
It's prohibitively expensive and most of our illegals came into the country legally then stayed past their visas.

>>722914031
replaying past events with hypotheticals is not handling anything. it's pretend time. it's what juveniles do.

liberal fakery
this who million tons of democrat steer manure owes to an alliance btw the border hating we are the world leftists,and the more practical democrat party,, rinos too, they both wish to compete for illegal votes,in return give them bennies
licenses jobs,keep them in vulnerability, blame anything that goes wrong on the fellow in the corner,while the democrat press regales repubs for hatred racism,etcetctetc
been doing that for years

>>722908604
>Israeli palestinian wall

Slight difference. Israeli wall was built to stop sand niggers from coming over and blowing shit up.

Show me a Mexican suicide bomber and we'll talk.

>>722909905
>but spics do far more damage by stealing american jobs

The type of merican that would do a spic's job would rather sit in a trailer and do meth.

>>722899601
Nobody is against banning illegal immigration
Heres the problem though, if a government run welfare state gives benefits to people who came here illegally those people will be inclined to vote democrat because thats the side more in favor of giving out more of those benifits
so republicans would rather spend a large amount of money keeping the United States free of illegal immigrants and therefore farther from becoming a welfare state which is all the better to keep their main goal: keeping democrats out of power (at least until voters change their mind anyway)

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>>722914630
>Math is pretend

>>722915521
also jews come into play somewhere in there, or lizard people, tomato tomato

Because corn tortillas are taking over our tacos and must be stopped at all costs.

>>722903916
Raider Nation as well.

>>722904610
...illegally

Paperwork and money is still enough of a barrier already. Why even bother with a wall?

>>722915178
Maybe they're just really good suicide bombers.

>>722916896
>illegal
>paperwork
pick one

>>722899601
60% of illegal immigrants come into the country on airlines. Wall is an expensive option that won't really even work.

>>722899601

#1 the wall won't stop them.. ever heard of planes, boats, or digging tunnels?

#2 they claim they want to impose tariffs on imports to fund the wall.. that means americans will be forced to pay for it through higher costs on imported goods like food, etc.. it's ANOTHER tax on americans..