HELP REPEAL THE NFA, MORE FREEDOMS FOR YOUR FELLOW BURGER!

signed for keks

>>722010576

FOPA would need to be repealed as well

b u m p

Signed, does /k/ know about this?

>>722011090
yes they do.

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>>722010889
As far as I know, the Hughes amendment only closed the NFA machine gun registry, it didn't ban the production of them outright, getting rid of the NFA would eliminate the need for the registry and thus the H Amend would have no effect.

Signed.
Goodspeed ameribros, time for you to get full auto fun also
t. swiss

>>722010889
>>722010576

Firearm Owners Protection Act

bans MGs made post '86 and requires all grandfatheredMGs must also be registered to be transfered

Signed my dude.
With Liberty and Justice.

>>722010576
suppressor is a firearm?

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gonna be gud

>>722011563
Its an NFA item, just like some firearms

>>722010576
Great. Just what we need in America. More guns.
Why do we like killing ourselves
>Don't call me a fucking nancy boy either bc I own guns myself they are just a fucking waste. Only thing you would ever need for protection is a handgun.

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>>722011563
Legally according to the ATF, yes, that's where they get jurisdiction to control them.

>>722011625
Care to explain.
Here in switzerland we have the lowest homicide rate of the west, yet most armed households in the entire world

>>722011669
>>722011617
thats some stupid-ass shit u got there

>>722011625
>not an argument

>>722011726
There is exactly one sane gun law ever made.
(pro tip, its the one with the "shall not be infringed" part)

>>722011563
In this regards yes. And even if removed would still likely be regulated as such. Serialized and BG checked to sell. But just removing them from the NFA they would bottom out in price and more people would make them. It would be an economic boost as well as an added fun toy to more Everyman's collection. I'm planning on building them and getting in the biz if the HPA passes. And SBRing my AR if the NFA is repealed.

>>722011625
faggot

>>722010576
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WGjTUpMRfQ0

>>722011625

what gives police the right to these firearms?

if American citizens cannot own them, they have no "we're outgunned" argument

>>722010576
>repeals NFA
>Automatic rifles legal
>buy said automatic for cheap with no license
>school shooting with auto
>bans auto for a century!
Do what chu gotta do.

>>722010576
You know that this will just make the white house speak about it? They're not going to fucken repeal it.

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>>722012062

>>722011697
Do you also have close to 50% of your citizens poor or low income, paycheck to paycheck, having to chose between paying for food or rent? lol I mean I wont sit here and say that "guns kill people" but they sure as fuck make it easier to kill someone. Here in America the crazies tend to go on fucking rampages pretty frequently. Im not saying we shouldnt own guns. I just think trying to add all this shit (That you can get still now just with more red tape) isnt helping anyone.

>>722011625
yea muh nigga. Don't chu worry. I'll make sure america loses gun privilege. It takes one person to ruin it for everyone hehe.

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>>722012141
Sure, but this will at least bring it some credibility, we can only hope it gets quietly slipped into some omnibus bill.

>>722012300
Nah, criminals just get them illegally.
in 2015 more people per capita died in mass shootings in france then in the US, despite france has one of the world strictes gun laws

>>722010576

ATTENTION

You should also support the class-action lawsuit against Lynch and the ATF to fund the ATF process to restore gun rights to non-violent felons

>>722012308
>press
>MACHINE GUNS NOW LEGAL; WHAT DOES THIS MEAN FOR THIS NATION AND ITS' CIVIL WAR?

>>722012473
Fuck no. Felons with a gun is dangerous nigger. It's like supporting a pedophile to stay off the sex offender list, so NO.

>>722012518
trump getting elected apparently brought in a surge of gun sales from people who dont typically buy guns.

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>>722012306
>Implying all of the Dale Gribble types wouldn't quickly get full autos, and then hold on to them until they're pulled from their cold dead hands surrounded by a pile of empty shells.

>>722012449
Per capita. They didnt have more gun deaths or gun violence.

>>722012616
if they are dale Gribbles none of the shots would have hit anything living.

>>722012308
>Can petitions matter, though? A recent article in The Washington Post begins with the headline, “It turns out petitioning the White House is about as effective as asking Justin Bieber to deport himself.”

https://www.washingtonpost.com/news/monkey-cage/wp/2017/02/03/yes-signing-those-petitions-makes-a-difference-even-if-they-dont-change-trumps-mind/?utm_term=.040e45a671d4

Never going to change m9 auto

>>722010576
see: NFA trust

>>722012596
It specifically pertains to nonviolent felons, the asshole who beats up his wife and family won't get his rights restored, It's the guy who had his rights revoked for stupid things like tax evasion/ect that would.

>Needs 6,754 signatures by February 19, 2017 to get a response from the White House

>>722012596
>non-violent
some kid caught with dope shouldn't have his rights revoked.

>>722012842
>in prison for non violent crime/felony
>ass raped/radicalized by terrorist or nazi
>get out the pen
>follow lieutenants order to take down rival
>shoots up a whole neighbor with AA-10(10 gauge will be offered I'm sure) and or ak-47 with the extendos
>civilian casualties everywhere
>1 rival dead

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>>722012786
Sure, that may be true for things that don't resonate with Trumps base, if a petition wants him to release his tax returns, who gives a rats ass, but if it's something that the base wants, he has an incentive to do it.

The same shit happened under the Obama administration, they would use petitions they liked as justification, meanwhile ignoring the larger ones when they went against their agenda.

>>722012596

>write a bad check
>get caught with some pot
>18yo have sex with his 17yo gf hes been dating for 2 years.

all federal felonies that can strip gun rights.

problemm is you hear felon and jump to violent drug dealers an murderers.

Most states have a process to restore these rights. The federal gov does. too Only thing is that congress passed a law saying ATF cant use its fund to consider the petitions.

so, we have a right and a vehicle to petition the gov under 1st amendment, they just wont let us

>>722013074
I do agree that prison tend to make criminals meaner rather than rehabilitate them,
I would like to see more prisons in the is following the Nordic model where they are aware they are evenutally going to have to release these people and should be made as functional as possible.

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>>722013171
I'm sorry to say that if you make a bad decision in life, enough to get a felony, you should not be owning a weapon let alone an automatic.

sincerely,
concerned citizen

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>>722012190
I literally bought an sd9ve today. (that's the pistol the pepe on the left is holding)

>>722010576
Signed it last week.
Almost there!

>>722013316
>implying you have never made a bad decision like that.

You just were not caught faggot.

>>722013451
Well survival of the fittest. Just saying man. I'm not going to be pooled up with stupid felons when they commit another crime with a gun they should not of legally had.

>>722013451
well one time I was with a thai prostitute,
found out it was a tranny but decide to do it anyway

>>722010576
All for this. Tho... I also believe most burglars use capitalism to redistribute stolen wealth.

Lets take it back

bump niggers

>>722011295

It banned the registration of anything new that wasn't law enforcement or military

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>>722010576
A pistol is sufficient to protect myself, and assault rifles are for insurgents and sperglords.

>>722010576
Sorry. Too many guns in America already. They gonna have em either way.
>if guns are outlawed then only outlaws will have guns.

>>722010576
Seriously? Some short barreled shotguns in canada are non risricted and require no paper work. I dont really have any knowledge on american gun laws just know theyre better than canadas

>>722014596
really?

>>722014150

This isn't about self defense you sperglord. The 2nd amendment had always been about rising up against a tyranical government. We match the firepower that government has. When the new governor comes to your house and says I have the first exclusive right to fuck your wife after marriage you then pick up your fully autu ptr95 and kill his ass. After so many governor seeded babies the whole community rises up and you throw down the tyrant. Just like the revolution.

>>722014666
Are you calling for a revolution to anarchy lucifer? Does thou want to rape pillage your neighbors wife?

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>>722014107
Sure, but the point was that it only gets it's jurisdiction from the NFA, it only prevents the transfer or possession of "Unlawful" machine guns, of which in the current wording means that it has to be registered with the NFA, without the NFA most machine guns would be considered "Lawful" thus Hughes amendment would be rendered effectively null and void.

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>mfw mcveigh was right

>>722013319
Nope, that's a Kahr he's holding.

>>722014877
Granted please correct me if i'm wrong on this, I've never been able to find the exact wording of the amendment myself, and I'm only working with quotes from other sources

>>722014654
Yea you can buy a levar action 1887 (no stock) or a 10" double barrel 12g with no paper work at all can buy it on the spot

>>722015065
nice.

>>722015065
but can you buy a qt gf?
you cant do that in america

>>722015126
Our laws are actually retarded, any rifle similar to a ar-15 is restriced but you can buy a fucking bullpup 50cal at the age of 18 with no hassle

I'm really interested to see what comes of this. I really hope it gets the needed signatures before the 19th

>>722010576
I cannot fathom the stupidity in a voting majority that will persue greater freedom in the ability to purchase firearms after repeated school shootings. Note, i am not anti-shooting at all, and have grown up with it in the UK.

>>722011697
Because you have national service and a pretty smart defence policy of giving all servicemen and women a firearm and a sealed box of rounds. Doesn't mean they're actively shot. That said, American gun policy is nuts. Pretty happy with our system in the UK.

>>722014843

No. I ask to be left the fuck alone. When the gubment comes calling when the next Kim Jong Trump/Obama is elected... I still get a vote. at 3200 FPS

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>>722011625
youre a fuckin nancy bitch boy

>>722012449
Because they have a much smaller population and suffered several high profile terrorist attacks...

>>722014877

Fucking machine guns were lawful up until 1968. And they could be made and registered until 1986. The Godamn communist fucking rulers made it so that we cannot register new. Thus driving the price up for a machine gun. Take for example: fully auto colt m16: $1,542 for the pig sheriff. $16,780 for me and you. Plus a $200 tax stamp. FUCKING BULLSHIT.

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>>722015439
So what, why should we restrict our rights because the action of a few retards?

In the US we have reached the turning point, there is no possibility that we could reach a britbongastan level of gun control, guns will always be available to those who shouldn't have them, and as such the only option is to push to the other extreme, If one in 5 citizens had a concealed weapon, violent crime and mass shootings would be nearly a non issue;

>Try to mug someone
>1/5 chance of getting shot

>Try to shoot up a school
>get shot

>>722016192
Are you retarded? Yeah you is. Was outlawed because gangsters shot up blocks at a time. Get your facts straight nigger monger.

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>>722016192
why you got to blame everything on communists?

>>722016412
Wrong

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>>722016192
This is apt to only make you more angry, but they were legal before 1968, they only had to be registered with the NFA since it's passing in 1934, at the time 200$ was more that the average car, so it was effectively a ban, but prior to that, you could get them with no checks whatsoever at your local hardware store

>>722011625
We have a nigger problem not a gun problem you collosal pussy.

i want a thompson

>>722016838
This

>>722012300
>muh poorfaggotry cause violent crime
White Appalachia is the poorest part of America and yet it doesn't look like Little Liberia there...
Really fires up the noodle

I'm going to call my republican representative to ensure that they do not repeal the NFA for my children's safety.

why the fuck do people need machine guns and sound suppressors?

Just want to add that when NFA is repealed Mohammed in class can easily purchase c4 and bomb high school to living hell.

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>>722011625
why do liberals always point out that they owns guns as if it gives their anti-2A opinions some kind of weight?

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>>722017013
Because, one day I want to own a church that preforms gay marriages with a built in abortion clinic, surrounded by a pot field, guarded with machine guns in a state with near zero income tax.

>SHALL NOT BE INFRINGED

>>722017013
I got into suppressors a couple of years ago and they are awesome. No more ringing ears and hearing damage, and one tends to "flinch" less, although they aren't whisper quiet like in movies. And I have not been compelled to go on any psychotic killing sprees, BTW. Sounds heinous and evil right!!!!!!!

>>722015853
fuck off to reddit

bump. we can do this

>>722010576
>Our petition is almost at the required 100K signatures, please add yours to it and help the cause!
Who wants to appear on a list of rednecks and gun nuts that'll be read by the next liberal government? A good way to get an all-expenses paid trip to the Gulag.

>>722017013
I didn't realize this country was founded upon a bill of needs anon.

Suppressors and machine guns simply aren't used in crime. Machine guns were legal to manufacture, sell, and own in the united states up until 1986. Between 1934 when the NFA was passed and 1986 when the Hughes amendment was passed (thus barring the manufacture of fully automatic weapons) a total of 3 crimes were committed with fully automatic weapons. Ironically 2 of those 3 crimes were committed by police officers.

>>722018012
>White Appalachia
8 years of talking about fema camps and it didn't happen anon.

>>722018012
They already have my name, address, and a few of bits of information on the forms they "discard" after I purchase a firearm.

>>722013451
Only niggers and white trash pass bad checks

>>722018129
>Suppressors and machine guns simply aren't used in crime.
I could see how supressors would be pretty helpful for a criminal

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>>722012062
Protip: Even when unregulated full autos where rarely if ever used in crimes

>>722018228
Then you must not know much about firearms.

>>722016412
That was the GCA of 38. Might want to do some research before you NIGNOG

>>722018257
If by "rarely" you mean "once" then yes.

Plus, it was a cop that did it.

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>>722017013
Since when has need ever had anything to do it?

Machine guns for fun, suppressed machine guns because loud.
Europe has much less regulation on suppressors, and they are encouraged to be used there, faggot.

>>722018228
>I could see how suppressors would be pretty helpful for anyone who shoots or is near shooting

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>>722018012
You really think they don't know who you are yet?

>>722018228
You would be surprised, a suppressor makes a pistol much harder to conceal and much more expensive. The majority of gun related crimes committed in the US are committed with cheap hand guns.

>>722018228
So why aren't there many silent assassinations and killings in other places like Europe where they are much less regulated?

>>722016431
Because communism only works with a disarmed populism. Dumb ass

>>722018528
Yeah, and it did fuck all to stop the North Hollywood shootout since they just illegally modified normal semi auto rifles. And they still didn't manage to kill anyone but themselves.

>>722018676
I dont know if there is or not, havnt seen any statistics on it,
though I imagine crime in general is lower in these countries due to things like less wealth inequality and various social safety nets and such.

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>>722018432
Not the guy you were responding to, but it was the NFA of 1934, and it is true to some extent, the legislation passed based on the perceived violence from movies of gangsters using machine guns, they were used by a few notable gangsters and they might have seen a slight spike in usage, but they were never overwhelmingly the issue, it was more of a matter of the people banning them cared more than the ones against it .

>>722015914
So you admit that these attacks perpetrated by muslims were "terrorist" attacks?

>>722018676

In europe you cant own a fucking gun

>>722019008
Yes you can. Please educate yourself.

>>722018837
Exactly. Because full-auto is only good for suppression and wasting ammo.

>>722018924
OK we are both wrong. The fucking FFA of 1938. GCA was 68.

>>722015751
Implying your gun is going to protect you from the full force of the United States military.

>>722010576
Your only complaint is that you have to pay a 200 dollar few and wait a few months?

Fuck you, I ain't signing that shit. Pay your taxes and shut the fuck up.

>>722019063
I am being an ass. Europe cant own a ptr 91. so fuck off newfag. http://ptr91.com/

>>722019331
>Implying the military isn't woke af

lul

>>722019331
>implying the full force of the United States military would be able to fight without resources and supplylines from the citizens (those who actually wörk, not the liberal shits at buzzfeed and huffpo)
>implying the United States military would fight their fellow citizens at all
>implying the United States military would not join the ganlads in a civil war

>>722019331

Just like the mud farmers in Iraq use RPGs to fuck up GI's every day. The US military cannot stop an ideal. The best soldiers have a wife, and children. They have to get out of the tank to take a shit...

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>>722019331
>implying soldiers are communist liberal kikes
>implying they're not gun owners themselves
>implying they would take orders to fire on their own neighbors
>implying the number of armed citizens doesn't outnumber the sum of all the police, soldiers and government agents combined by a factor of 10

>>722019825
Fucking...what?

>>722019965
Did I stutter?

>>722019965
It is true. Only the registered hunters in the US - not all gun owners by far - are for a reason called "biggest standing army of the world".

>>722010576

So, what you're basically saying is:

To have the right to do this, you need to pay?

Sounds like the american dream doesn't it?
With freedom comes responsibility.

I'm really not seeing the problem here

REMEMBER IF YOU HAVE GOYBOOK TO SPREAD IT ON THERE

>>722020397
I don't need to register and pay extra taxes for the muffler on my car, why do I need to do that for a muffler on my gun?

>>722013241
cuck

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>>722014666
the government has drones,you get that right?
you want to bring guns to a drone fight?!

>>722019825
Yeah not even the orange retard is gonna side with you nutjobs

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>>722019328
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gun_law_in_the_United_States

Sure this is Wikipedia but still;

>National Firearms Act of 1934 (NFA)
>establishes the tax stamp/NFA registry system

>Federal Firearms Act of 1938 (FFA)
>establishes the FFL system, and mandates that individual retailers/manufacturers keep records of sales (even for non NFA items).

>Omnibus Crime Control and Safe Streets Act of 1968 (OCCA)
>raises minium handgun age to 21

>Gun Control Act of 1968 (GCA)
>Adds the sporting clause to weapons imported to the US, stops unlicensed individuals from doing firearms transfers.

>Firearm Owners Protection Act of 1986 (FOPA)
>limits the ATF in how much they can harass FFLs, bans the sale of machine guns manufactured after the date of passage by closing the registry created by the NFA of 1934 via the Hughes amendment to the bill.


It seems some people have their dates and effects mixed up.

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>>722020639
>let's drone strike and level a neighborhood because some guy owns an ar15 and a suppressor

Great logic there

Even if that does happen, the next town will find out who the drone operator is, and go find and kill him and his entire family to send a message to those traitors.

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>>722010576
I already own a machine gun. But i want more suppressors!

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>>722020571

One is not like the other, go figure ehh

>>722021127
Actually they are similar in every way by design, and serve the same purpose.

Wouldn't short-barrel shotguns be a better/safer choice for home defense than a handgun and less of a temptation for those who buy a handgun for home defense to end up bringing it out of a home (since it's much more difficult to hide in a coat or car, or use to hold up a person discreetly)?

I mean, just thinking in terms of urban policy here. I support gun control in general and increased handgun regulation specifically.

>>722019467
>Your only complaint is that you have to pay a 200 tax and wait a few months before you can post a youtube video?
That is what this law would look like if the subject was the first amendment.

>>722021365
Any defensive shotgun load above birdshot will penetrate as much as a handgun in most cases.
00 buckshot, the most common defensive load, is just a bunch of 9mm sized lead rounds all going off at once.

>I support gun control in general and increased handgun regulation specifically.
Faggot kike. Support it for yourself and leave us the fuck alone.

>>722020933
and then they drone strike that town,drones win everytime

>>722021365

Also, heavier and larger guns are much more difficult for children to handle, which might in theory make accidents from "play shootings" more difficult. Shotguns also have a shorter range than handguns being smooth-bore.

So maybe short-barrel shotguns are should be allowed as long as they're above a certain weight and bore size.

>>722021803
Eventually they'll run out of pilots.

Curious, what would laying waste to your homeland accomplish? What's the ultimate goal in this scenario of eradicating all your productive workers and infrastructure?

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>>722020397
>>722019467
The main point of contention is that the Hughes amendment prevents civilians from owning machine guns manufactured after 1968, but it only has it's authority as long as the NFA is still in place.

On top of that, owning guns is a negative right rather than a positive one, you should have a right to own any gun without undue burden ,(which a 6 month wait period, 200$ tax stamp, and backround check that includes everything short of a cavity search constitutes), It merely requires the government to abstain from obstructing you, it's not as if we're as insane as those "healthcare is a right" loons who don't realize that that requires the government to take something from someone else ,(time/skill set), and give it to them.

We're not saying give everyone a machine gun, we only want the government to stop trying to impede us from getting it voluntarily from another person.

>>722021934
>Shotguns also have a shorter range than handguns being smooth-bore

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=F42Bsc8YtnU

>>722021653
>Support it for yourself and leave us the fuck alone.

I live in a city -- things work differently here. If we can get regulations that hold Congressional and judicial review that can keep carry and smuggling out of urban areas (like Chicago's ban attempt), I'm fine with minimal regulation in non-urban areas.

>>722022066
Also it's worth pointing out that at the time of it's adoption the average yearly household income was $6000. A $200 tax stamp cost nearly as much as a car at the time. Originally it also included handguns. It was a blatantly unconstitutional law.

>>722022215
Urban areas are a place I would most definitely want to carry and own defensive guns.
You people all think ass-backwards.

>>722022066


GD right. We have an unrestricted right to ANY weapon. From slam fire shotgun to RPG to fucking 166 mm artillery. The fuckstick tyrannical gubment has nothing to do with our right to arm ourselves and being capable of overthrowing the fuckstick gubment.

>>722015439
U.K. has a opinion about American laws and rights? That's cute.

>>722022350

Escalation of arms is a good defensive policy? Remember, if somebody gets the jump on you for a street robbery, you won't be able to draw on time. The best way to make street confrontations survivable is to keep both parties from having highly-lethal weapons.

>>722015439


Look at the statistics.. The school shooting aren't shit compared to NIGGER ON NIGGER violence. 80% of handgun violence is nigger on nigger. School violence is not even an issue if you look at FBI statistics.

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>>722023083
>what is situational awareness

And how has banning gun from criminals turned out?
You're wishing for a pipe dream, and disarming otherwise peaceful law abiding people, and making it hard to defend themselves will not stop criminals from getting and using guns.
I've never understood this logic.

>>722021653

00 is not a bunch of 9mms, it's a bunch of spheres that are roughly 9mm across. They have limited range since they scatter and do not spin, and they do expand or tumble or shatter on impact like various bullets. Penetration depth of flesh doesn't really matter at that point.

>>722019331
Jets can't guard street corners. Tanks can't search houses. Helicopters can't operate checkpoints.

Also, the military would defect in the event of a civil war.

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>>722023083
Sure but if you can't strictly control what the opposing party has, your best bet is to get on equal level with them, which in this case means getting a gun.

The goal is to make street crimes survivable by the victim, not the perpetrator, being caught and tried in a court of law should be considered gentle compared to what you could face a the hands of your victim in self defense, if mugging someone has a decent chance of you getting shot, I guarantee you that far few people will try.

Besides, throw your wallet and then shoot.

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>>722023083
Funny thing is, you're much less likely to be harmed defending yourself with a gun than other means.

>>722023291

this is fucking hilarious. what absolute moron gets the idea to rob a fucking gun store? i have multiple friends who work at gun stores, and let me tell you, more often than not the guy behind the counter is former law enforcement, former military, or so well-trained that he might as well be. only a fucking fool tries to rob a store owned by people who love weapons

>>722023291

Nigs getting guns for other nigs either don't have criminal records or in Chicago get them delivered from the tri-state area. Strong urban laws mean laws and enforcement powers across the board: carry, import, resale, and private sale.

Distinguishing between urban and rural enforcement and rights can be tricky, but it is done in many many other areas of policy (alcohol, animals, labor), and you guys are all about state and local rights versus Federal oversight.

>>722023774

That guy will be charged in most jurisdictions as he has the duty to flee once out of danger. He cannot claim self-defense at that point. Lethal force for defense of property is only allowed by castle doctrine in a few jurisdictions, and as implied in the name, only within your "castle".

>>722024316
Maybe if you live in a cucked state without a stand your ground law. He probably saved a bunch of other people from being robbed or harmed, and most states have laws that say you can use lethal force to stop the commission of a felony, of which aggravated robbery is most definitely a felony.

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>>722023855
>1979-1985
I believe this is probably still true, but could you find a more recent source? Most of us weren't even alive then.

>>722020639
are you familiar with asymmetrical warfare? that's how Vietnamese farmers and mudslime goatfuckers prove any sort of challege for the US military. Plus the government literally cannot tax or govern a nation that its running a shock and awe campaign on. plus we share this country with them, with includes infrastructure, politicians, VIP's families (many more targets than military). Plus they wouldn't even be able to differentiate between civies and insurgents.

there is absolutely no way the US could fight its population, not even a small fraction.

>>722024749
As far as I know, that's the most recent study on this particular topic.
And it was done in an era of much higher crime rates than today.

>>722023855

Normally I wouldn't be too picky with survey dates, but that data is from 1979-1985 -- 30 years ago! The crack epidemic was hitting peak momentum and gun ubiquity for street gangs was only starting to become commonplace ($100 a piece in modern cash wouldn't be available for a while). I don't doubt that stats in various cities can swing the argument one way or another, but I will say that nobody wants to be in a situation where *everybody* carries.

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>>722024957
>but I will say that nobody wants to be in a situation where *everybody* carries
Why not?

People who legally carry are among the most peaceful, law abiding people out there, with crime and error rates lower than that of even police officers.

>>722024527
>most states have laws that say you can use lethal force to stop the commission of a felony

No states have this. The most liberal justified homicide laws are Castle Doctrine and Stand Your Ground, both of which are only in two states and require some reasonable suspicion of physical harm before lethal force is justified.

>>722018228
supressed guns are still pretty load, they just dont blow out your eardrums when you shoot them. the neighborhood will still know a gun went off.

>>722025266
>No states have this
Mine does

>A person is justified in using force intended or likely to cause death or serious bodily injury only if the person reasonably believes that force is necessary to prevent death or serious bodily injury to the person or a third person as a result of another person's imminent use of unlawful force, or to prevent the commission of a forcible felony.

https://le.utah.gov/xcode/Title76/Chapter2/76-2-S402.html

>>722016921
I have a semi auto thompson. Pretty neato

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>>722023569
I hate to break it to you, but there are no common pistol rounds that shatter/fragment like 5.56 does in flesh, however your comment about lower energy is true, assuming 50ish grains for the weight of buckshot and 120 from 9mm, we'll say that both of these are moving at around 1200 fps which is a little high for 9mm, and low for buckshot.

Plug this into E=.5MV^2 do some unit conversions and you get around 170FPE for the buckshot, and 411 for buckshot so it's a little over twice the energy.

Now where the difference comes is that 9mm jhp in flesh penetrates to about 25-30 inches, if we assume that it transmits energy to the target at a constant rate and the average person is approximately 12 inches thick, this means that it only transfers 48% (197 FPE) of it's energy if we assume the lower penetration statistic,

The shotgun on the other hand penetrates to around 14 inches which leaves with 85% (144.5 FPE) of it's energy transferred to the target.

This means that that 9mm fmj wounds will look similar to to buckshot individually, but with 00, you get 9 more pellets to add on top of that, I'll just note this changes slightly if your using hollow points for the 9mm since it transfers a significantly larger quantity of energy to the target that fmj, but that's nothing compared to the 1296 FPE that the combined total of the pellets would transfer, and this doesn't even account for things such as would cavities, which would be larger with the shotgun.

Perhaps a pistol is better for home defense due to the portability but, if I had to kill something close to me right now, I'd want a shotgun.