Atheism is the dumbest fucking thing. So if energy from the Big

i know this is prolly bait or summin

but my theory is everything was already here

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Zero-energy_universe

>>720448206
This

>>720448154
Pretty much this, if a god can be eternal why can't the universe? Maybe it's just all cyclical and shit.

Besides this is a pretty shitty universe for a god to make. It's like a bubble, takes up a whole bunch of space but has nearly zero substance. A god could make way more interesting worlds than this depressing pile of shit.

>>720448154
>>720448206

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Conservation_of_mass

Matter cannot simply be created from nothing (This includes energy).

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>>720448080
Science tells us that the universe did in fact fart itself into existence, OP. It's scientific fact.

>>720448447
Learn to read. If the energy was always there then it was never fucking created.

>>720448394
My theory is this universe is a "Personality Creator" AKA it's built to build as many diverse personalities as it can.

>>720448499
Oh so the energy was just always there..?

You realize that is fucking retarded right?

Will we ever find out what actually happened?

>>720448547
Why? Theists say "God was always just there" and nobody bats an eye. Why should the universe be any different?

And if you insist on being a faggot, laws of physics such as the conservation of mass only apply inside an already existing, 3 dimensional system. If anything else, or nothingness, existed before the big bang then all the laws of physics are out the window up until the big bang.

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>>720448499
You call this science?

>>720448711
Nah I call it speculation, since we can't know, scientifically, what existed before the big bang

>>720448447
Actually, it can be as long as the equation is balanced by the creation of negative matter or energy.

>>720448080
if god created the universe, where did god come from?

>>720448709
>Why? Theists say "God was always just there" and nobody bats an eye. Why should the universe be any different?
The difference is that theism and science give credence and weight to different sources of proof. Science demands facts, religion demands faith. By saying what you just said you prove that the self-congratulatory cult of science is just as much a religion as any other.

>>720448629

no.

>>720448829

from your mom's filthy anus.

>>720448833
you don't understand logic

>>720448833
Again, I'm not saying science has proven that the universe always existed. If you loo back at my post (>>720448499) you will see that I said IF, as in I'm speculating different possibilities, not claiming any of them are certainly true.

>>720448871
No, you've abandoned logic.

>>720448829
The magic (Or it may be science to them) in their universe would probably explain it.

>>720448810
Or rather, matter or energy with negative mass

>>720448810
>>720449053
Then where did the negative mass/energy come from?

>>720448080
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wNDGgL73ihY
watch this.
>>720448447
E=m*c^2

To the guys arguing about dark matter: its almost certainly not balanced.

>>720449202
>Due to quantum uncertainty, energy fluctuations such as an electron and its anti-particle, a positron, can arise spontaneously out of vacuum space, but must disappear rapidly. The lower the energy of the bubble, the longer it can exist. A gravitational field has negative energy. Matter has positive energy. The two values cancel out provided the universe is completely flat. In that case, the universe has zero energy and can theoretically last forever.
From empty space.

>>720449340
No one is talking about dark matter

>>720449340
Was that video supposed to refute my point?
It didn't.
>E=m*c^2
What does this have to do with matter/energy being created?

So basically the only argument against my point is "It always existed, So it wouldn't need to be created".

Atheist fags please kill yourselves.

>>720450155
You can say the same thing about god

>>720450155
Man when you get shut down so bad you can't even continue "debating" and just give blanket statements announcing that you think you've won, you get pretty mad. Just relax and admit you have no more of a clue than anyone else and are just talking out of your ass.

>>720450155
No, actually, you can say the same thing about everything that existed and wasn't registered as data.

>>720450248

>>>720448944

>>720450365
I stopped debating because your only argument is complete garbage.

And no, I'm not mad i'm laughing at how retarded Atheism is.

The question of unmoved mover boggles even me, and I'm not as dumb as everyone else ITT.

>>720450544
Yeah, salty as fuck.

>>720450634
Why would I be salty when I won the argument xd

>>720450741
You don't have to keep convincing us of your salt OP, you've already made it more than obvious.

>>720450634
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Heat_death_of_the_universe

A cycle of rebirth ?

>>720449541
You mean niggers, right?

>>720450741
The universe is expending, one day it will stop and reduce in size. When the universe is so dense and small that it become a singularity, it become just a point in the void. Then it collapse and explode, Bing Bang.

>>720450741
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Big_Crunch

>>720451069
I thought the "big crunch" was disproven by some kinda mathematical shit a while back, but I might be wrong about that.

>>720451069
Never said it can't restart.
Probably even built that way for even MORE personalities.

>>720448514
it's doing a shit job of that then. Like 99.9999999999999% of the universe is inhospitable.

>>720451291
That is if the string universe theory is wrong

>>720451436
What do you call "personalities" ?

>>720451509
Fucking hell m8.
If there was like a billion earths with sentient lifeforms like your suggesting their should be then it would make different personalities than the ones being created now.

The creator could just make a universe like your suggesting too.

>>720451662
I would say it's how you react to the world around you.

>>720451697
Oh woops meant to include "Next to us, So we would know of their existence.

>>720451697
>>720451697
Implying that there's a creator in the first place

>>720451727
So the Universe (God??) create personalities ?

>>720451785
Yea sure there's chance it was just magic being random and no sentient being behind it, But that's boring.

>>720451858
Uh.. obviously personalities are being created?
Not sure if i'm misunderstanding something

>>720451861
Boring but realistic

>>720451947
Can't really attribute a chance to things like magic my dude.

>>720452043
God isn't magic then ?

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>>720448080

>>720451697
even if there were a billion earths, the vast majority of the universe, in terms of volume and matter, would still be uninhabitable. If the universe were made for generating personalities, shouldn't most of it be habitable for those personalities?

Try to imagine to go to sleep and never wake up.(death?)

Think about that for a few minutes... now ask yourself..

What was it like to wake up having never gone to sleep? (was that when we/i was born?:))

We are all the universe, we are all One, the Universe is our consciousness that we are trying to measure with science.

We are something the universe is doing, the same way as a sheet of snow tumbles down a mountain at a given time.

When we die, other people are born, and they are all us, and we can only experience it one at a time.

Time to wake up

>>720451934
Personalities aren't 100% innate, your environment influence your personality for example. They are not "created" you're born with them and you change with time.

>>720452192
I'm saying Earths as in habitable planets.

>>720448080
>So if energy from the Big Bang created the universe
>created the universe
>created
That's where you went wrong. The universe was not created.

>>720448447
>Matter cannot simply be created from nothing
True, it cannot be created. But it does spontaneously pop in and out of existence on a very small scale. We know this happens, we can see it and measure it.

>>720452287
Yea that's what I meant of course.

>>720448080
How does that prove magic?
At least science guys are honest enough to say "We don't know what preceded the big bang, but we're fairly certain about what happened just after the big bang".
If you think you know what happened before the big bang, please share what empirical proof you have to support it.

>>720452332
>But it does spontaneously pop in and out of existence on a very small scale. We know this happens, we can see it and measure it.

Hold the fuck up, source?

>>720452490
Hadron Collider ?

>>720452441
Because energy being created from nothing breaks the law of physics.

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>>720452490
It's called quantum fluctuation. There were supporting theories as far back as 1930, and confirmation in the 1970s. Theoretically, we could stimulate the effect under the right conditions with a very intense laser and particle accelerator.

>>720452555
So basically it's only specific particles...You were getting me excited there for a moment... :(

>>720452648
That's your first step of an idea I guess.
Now please explain to me how it proves creation versus just popping into existence.

>>720452841
Because "popping into existence" is simply illogical.

Like holy shit is it dumb.

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>>720452840
At least it prove that energy can be created from nothing, but not for too long :)

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>>720452950
*Specific energy
AKA it doesn't fucking matter.

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>>720452927
You're still not quite getting what I am saying. Prove your assertion beyond "I dunno what happened before the big bang, but my personal bias would prefer if it were some creator creature".
Scientists are supposed to find proof for their assertions in order for people to believe them, I think it's only fair that you live up to the same expectations.

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>>720453148
I'm Mark from O'Brien.
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The question of whether or not deities exist hardly pertains to the backstory of the universe. I believe that all gods exist under some realm of time, circumstance, and eventuality; just as well that I believe there are none.

This segment of reality that we occupy is either infinite, or a finite system stapled to an infinite medium.

If your line of reasoning ends at the fruition of OUR universe, you're probably not asking the right questions.

In order for expansion to have initially taken place, it needs a point of origin.

Regardless of your beliefs, the space in which to exist will ALWAYS come before any creator, because a creator cannot create, until it has itself been created. Even if God does exist, he's probably just as clueless as we are when it comes to the origin and nature of the great sandbox.

>>720453148
My assertion is that it is GUARANTEED to be created by magic,Not that I'm not sure. And proof is a scientific law.. Don't know what's better than that m8.

Also I wonder who's the one that is memeing the thread... :)

>>720453148
Why should he find proof ? Where are yours ?

And no, scientist make hypotesis/theories, experiment and give results. They are not preachers.

>>720453274
Nah the whole "Infinite" argument is complete bullshit. It simply would not work.

>>720453274
>In order for expansion to have initially taken place, it needs a point of origin.
Only if you're expanding into an already existing space. If there was nothing "outside" our universe, then where would one map the origin point?

>>720453493
Explain please.

>>720453403
That's like saying the law of thermodynamics goes against the theory of evolution. It doesn't since the only truly closed system we know of, is our universe itself. And that is full of open systems like our solar system, where our sun continually add energy to our planet.
Show me the connection between your assertion of magic and that law and I might give you some credit.
>>720453457
I've been advocating the position of "We don't know what happened before the big bang, but we know what happened after it", there is plenty of evidence supporting what happened after the big bang.
I see no evidence supporting a creator though.

>>720453767
Because anything becoming infinite is not physically possible to put it in a plain and simple way.

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>>720448080
I don't know why x therefore y.

>>720453695
What exactly would this nothing be made of though? Same thing as what our void space is made of?

>>720453903
But a god would be infinite, so...

>>720453898
m-man your pretty good at adding a bunch of bullshit in your argument to confuse your opponent... BUT NOT GOOD ENOUGH.

Look at it like this.. You are doing a multiple choice test with only 2 choices. I just eliminated one choice with a scientific law, So it's clearly the other choice.

>>720454189
Why would he have to be infinite?

This. Also; consciousness is a backdoor through space and time. You could be reborn in a completely different universe after you die, thousands of years into the future. But you'd never realize it. Only the living body observes time. Consciousness itself is not sentient. Consciousness is the spark of life energy that gives us that sense of individually.

>>720454152
A void and actual nothingness are two different things. Well, one different thing as nothingness wouldn't really be a 'thing' period. If they weren't, all that empty space between the Earth and the Sun, or any other celestial bodies for that matter, wouldn't still be there. True nothingness can't really be grasped by our minds but that doesn't make it impossible.

>>720454189
The answer to that would be, if god is infinite, which law of physics would allow for that?
>>720454245
The science behind our universe isn't a multiple choice test though anon. That is an oversimplification of a very complex system, that we only partially know how works. Saying "God did it" and stopping there will ensure that you won't learn anything new that might help out the people around you.
Explain to me how God creating the universe by magic is connected to the law you are using and I might give it some credence.

Nobody knows,and nobody will ever know. We can't comprehend the Universe/God.

>>720453903
Probably because nothing 'becomes' infinite. Obviously though, if there is just empty space outside our universe like some in here assume, it has to either BE infinite; or encapsulated in something, meaning that there are outer layers beyond that, and layers beyond them.

>>720454462
Fucking hell dude.

If what i'm talking about isn't only 2 choices, then name any of the other choices.

Also i'm not saying it HAS to be a god like being, It could be magic being random too.

And I know what your doing anon :)

>>720454681
Well then prove the magic anon, show me some of it, tell me how the universe allows for it, quantify it, capture some in a vial and distill it.
What do you think I am doing anon?

>>720454547
I suspect the creator created it so the "emptiness" outside our universe LOOKS like it should be infinite, But if you go past it there would be a invisible "wall". Of course we wouldn't be able to prove it since universe got a time limit before it implodes and it would require a hilarious amount of time to get there.

>>720454847
Lol, I wasn't completely sure until this post, But your trying to get me mad my dude. :)

>>720455088
Not really, I'm just getting slightly exasperated anon.
I'm trying to come from the position of "If you have an assertion, provide me with proof", I'm not a physicist or an astrologer but I've read enough on the subjects to know that they are working from a set of proofs to explain their assertions.
You're just saying energy can't come from nothing= creation magic. Without explaining the connection between the two.

>>720455306
It's ok anon you gave it a good effort, I'm proud
T B H.

>>720455375
Even though this still seems slightly dismissive of my position, I'm still gonna take that as a compliment.

Aight anyone got anything more to discuss? Cause i'm gonna go take a shower in a min.

>>720454547
Infinite ju

Is just a placeholder for "beyond our comprehension"

>>720448080
>That is undeniable proof this universe was created by magic
Do you even Demiurge?

>>720449202
The positive mass/energy.

>>720448080
>implying atheism = big bang

This thread is a sham. Everyone knows the universe came into existence because of the time-energy uncertainty of the vacuum.

God does exist though. He's the one who designed the vacuum to be uncertain, and designed the world it produced by overseeing supposedly random outcome of each and every individual wave function collapse

>>720452319
I get that...

so please re-read my comment

>>720456418
God is a fairytale, but this is the most well thought out excuse to believe otherwise I've ever seen.

Like wow. You are really dedicated to being wrong.