Pro-choicers are sociopaths and autists who don't need to

You go first since you literally haven't given an argument to be rebuked

>>720232780
It's not a human being until it speaks words.
Discuss.

>>720232873
Well it's a paradox. I'd be pro-life but I think anyone who's pro choice doesn't need to procreate
>>720232946
How about we've known what causes pregnancy for thousands of years

Not sure how to feel about abortion. On the one hand it's killing children, but on the other it gives women a choice..

>>720232961
Nigger that's a retarded argument
That's like saying a plant isn't alive until its leaves sprout
Have you ever heard of a fucking seed before?

>>720233038
I'm down for that either way

Also cucks and niggers

>>720233094
But are seeds plants? Are eggs birds?

I'm pro abortion
Keeps the nigger population down and gives women time to choose when they want a baby so it doesn't grow up degenerate
Who the fuck cares if you're literally killing children causing them pain in the process
It's the same thing with circumcision

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>>720233155

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When there's literally no space left on Earth because numbnuts like you don't believe in curbing things like teen pregnancy, then I really want to hear your input on how to fix THAT problem. Mother nature never thought we would be so good at surviving and reproducing.

>>720233155
Of course seeds are fucking plants you autist
Eggs are birds too, if they're fertilized
Both are just undeveloped

Abortion should have always remained as the good lord intended.....for brown people.

Who isn't an autist these days?

>>720233273
I have a solution
Just abort all babies of unmarried/unengaged mothers automatically
And if they have the baby in secret take it away and foster it

>>720233333
Witnessed

>>720232780
Why would you keep a child you DO NOT WANT and who will DESTROY YOUR LIFE just for the SAKE OF A MADE UP RULE ?

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>>720232780
I'm pro choice but I don't support abortion in it's current state. Meaning, I have no problem with the medical procedure of abortion, but I am against the fact that my tax money pays for it. If abortion is "none of my concern as a man," then why is it "100% of my concern" to pay for it? Eliminate funding to Planned Parenthood. Make these trash bag whores who get them pay for it themselves. Okay? That is all ;)

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>>720233155

>>720233362
I agree with you about aborting niggers but you should probably construct better arguments desu

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>>720233333
When plants and birds start communicating with us using spoken language, I'll call them human beings, too.

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>>720233333
I witness greatness, and I tip my fedora in respect

>>720233534
Are you the guy that makes the anti Trump threads?

>>720232780
Pro choice does not mean anti life. Pro life means anti choice. anti freedom of the individual. Pro fetishising biological processess. favouring single celled organisms over rational human beings.


pro life is the autist mentality. It also tends to be associated with those who at teh same time as being anti abortion are also anti all the social care and help packages that would help the non aborted poor kid not to become a criminal and drain on society - - they tend to be sociopathic in all their other social policies.

so basically, your initial idea is bullshit/ needs a hell of a lot of support

>>720233534
Why would you create a child you don't want?

Reproduction isn't this huge mystery anymore

>>720233546
Wouldn't you rather pay for a single abortion versus life in jail for some degenerate nigger baby who was supposed to be aborted but the mother was too poor?

>>720233546
>didn't read post, don't care
but
>literal free market results in company-towns and rampant pollution
Or is it your specific definition of free market, fascist?

>>720233699
Well one day you'll have sex and realize how nice it is

>>720233616
nope? It's common sense dude there is literally no valid rational argument to answer my question

>>720233094
alive and human being are not the same thing. A human egg and sperm are both alive. combined and as a fertilised egg they are also alive - but none of the above are human beings, and they do not have the same moral value as a fully functional rational human being.

anyone who does not see the difference is morally inept or retarded.

>>720233699
Because we don't educate teens on how to fuck properly so they keep getting pregnant and legitimately don't know why

>>720233791
I agree with That
I'm just saying that the guys speak argument is actually retarded

>>720233699
This is another problem dude, it's not a valid argument. Or else, what if the woman was raped then ?

>>720233753
I'm not an Anarcho-Capitalist, so I believe that government is a necessary evil. But we should restrict it as much as possible. But we also need to make it a LITTLE bit harder for large corporations to become a monopoly and control everything that goes on (since everything is privatized.) So yes, in a sense, these corporations would eventually become fascist. But like that I said, that's why I believe in some restrictions.

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>>720232780
I disagree with the pro-choicers too--except for instances of rape, etc.
However, friend, you lose all credibility when you blanket them as "sociopaths" and especially "autists".
I don't think you even realize that "austists" account for nearly all the geniuses throughout the history of this planet and most of the major advancements in technology. People sound very unintelligent when they use "autism" with the equivalent of "retarded" (while not condoning use of the latter either as people can't help how they are born) as autists are often (by far) significantly smarter than the rest of the population.

tl; dr
You've done a bad job of making your point and use words you obviously don't know the meaning of.

>>720233791
Genius you've cracked the case.

So at what point does it go from being "alive" to being a human being. Last time I checked it takes a long time for people to become "fully functional rational human beings," and some never do. I must be in the retard category

What if we used the unwanted babies for the military?

The mothers still have their choice of not raising their kids, but we throw them in some Spartan-II type of project and get some use out of it.

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>>720233546
given that there is never such a thing as a free market - anything else you say is based on fantasy, falsehood and lies.

and to be honest, your view is nt about free markets - it is about not paying for the goods of a civil society that you want to leech off. you are not a libertarian you are just a leech who does not want to pay for the cost of living in a decent community.

>>720233610
greatness - the chance occurance of a pseudo random number.

you are not great. I do not in any way respect you.

>>720234004
People don't lose credibility just because they make you cry, autist.

this >>720234004
only correct response itt

>>720234237
>retard confirmed

>>720232780

If you're pro-life you won't want tumors being killed. Cancer is alive.

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>>720234237
Guys, i found a nigger in our thread.

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>>720232780
Sounds like you're on board with terminating a pregnancy to prevent the spreading of faulty genes; are you trying to make an argument for or against pro-choicers? I can't tell

>>720234125
Don't have anything better to do Bernie?

So giving free abortions to whores is what it takes to live in a decent community. KEK

>>720234237
Okay, friend. You sound real smart. Thanks for proving my point. Everyone has seen it now. Op is literally retarded. No surprise.

End of thread
Nothing more to see here
Everyone is communicating with OP--a proven, literal retard

If I get raped and impregnated at 15 or something, do I have to keep the baby?

>>720233990
Capitalism by definition creates at least two archetypes and therefore cannot be anarchist.
I know that it's widely accepted as a position, but so is village idiot.

>>720234454
yes you bitch he is alive and its not his fault that

>>720234454
They have a safe surrender box

>>720234454
Nope, you dont have to fuck your body up and suffer carrying a rape baby for 9 months, just kill the little parasite

>>720234549
Cool, I'll just add child support to the rape lawsuit.

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>>720234369
Oy vey, Bernie! Aren't you enjoying your new beach front luxury home that was just given to you by the (((Democratic Party)))? But if you are being serious, then you're a fucking moron who doesn't understand what it's like to live in a 'community.' You don't even know what a community is if you expect hard working tax payers to fund lazy people's mistakes. That's not a community. That's forced participation and taxation at gunpoint.

>>720234018
Well, obviously being sensate (having a nervous system, with a response mechanism) would be a first step towards being able to feel pain - a basic moral requirement. after that, being able to be self aware - concious of one's own existence - and having future plans would be the next level of moral value - so for instance newborn babies are not as morally valuable as three year old children. So about three years old is when human beings generally gain this insight and become moral beings int heir own right. before that they are not fully human, not persons, and not as valuable.

that is not to say they are not valuable at all - but they may not have much moral value in themselves - their value is throught the people (fully functional rational beings - usually adults) who value them. if no one values them then thy have minimal value intrinsically because of what they are.

you fetishize this value, promoting it over the value of much more valuable human beings, and their desires and future plans and needs adn wants. this is not rational.

>>720234563
What's a safe surrender box?

>>720234706
Oh, evidently this is only a thing in my state. It's like the pound, but for children. You drop off your unwanted baby with no questions asked.

>>720234706
where you go get raped by niggers so that at least it can happen in a safe environment, they are all over sweden and most of the rest of the EU countries

>>720234786
Sounds useful I guess, but wouldn't I still have to go through the whole pregnancy?

>>720234369
yes. Free abortions for idiots and poor niggers means fewer idiots and poor niggers. Better community.

or would you prefer that they have twenty kids, who die of malnutrition, or grow up feral and thieve? or that you have to take into care, or give foodstamps to? or will you have a libertarian free society where they lie dying on the street, because the market has no use for them?

cheaper to abort than to put through court and execute after twenty years on death row with multiple appeals...

>>720234921
I agree with everything you said. But I repeat my original question: Why do I have to pay for other's mistakes?

>>720234659
oh dear, another angry libertarian who does not want to pay for a peaceful society... leech.

sponger.

greedy bastard.

>>720234992
Not the same anon, but put simply i'd say because thats how society works. It can only move as fast as its slowest component.

>>720234992
You could impose an additional tax on women. Like social security, but the collective money goes towards their abortions.

>>720232780
It's not like you're gonna be knocking one up anyway so who cares what you think.

>>720235143
Also, if they get more than one, mandatory tubal ligation

>>720235050
>wanting a peaceful society
Why do you want mankind to stop evolving?

>putting value on human life
>2k17
pick one, faggots

Being pro life means you want this girl to have the half-nigger baby she's going to be knocked up with in the next few years

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Gu10IiXVNBk

Pro-choice because I hate fetuses

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>>720235050
oy vey, another virtue signalling demmie-Socialist moron who thinks he knows how "society works." You can't even get out of that chair and wipe your ass, much less understand the structure of a society and what constitutes it.

>>720235077
Still not buying it. You've yet to identity how "society works" or what the fuck that even means. That's like how in America they circumcise babies and when asked why they do it, they just say," well that's just how it works here." No, that's not a fucking argument.

>>720234992
because they can't.

because their mistakes will inconvenience you for a long time. it is cheaper than having lots of unwated children and young adults about.

becaue the outside world will impinge on you.

I know, it would be nice if the world was full of clever people who look after their own shit - but remember that the average IQ is not very smart, and half the people are dumber than that.

smart people always have to clean up the dumb people's shit - but to be honest, the dumb clean your streets, and offices, and look after your sewers adn deliver your dvds from amazon, and string your telephone wires, and mend your roads - and do all the shit jobs you do not want to do that make your nice life possible - so part of the cost of having them do that is sometimes paying for their mistakes.

It is called "civilisation"

I know that most Americans have never seen one - they still live in wild west fantasy land were all men are men and look after themselves, and have not realised that it would be better if they just nationalised medicine, paid for the stupid to be better looked after and be less of a drain on society and be more productive - and they would all get cheaper health care because the so called free market would not be ripping them off... like every other G20 country... but that would mean having to pay for others mistakes.... so you think it better to just pay more for your own crappy health care...

crazy.

>>720234679
fuck you, singer.
rational capabilities can never be the condition to be regarded as a human being. you can justify euthanasia and shit

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>>720235600

>>720235050
There is only peace in death. All life is conflict.
You've been mentally atrophied by society if you think otherwise.

>>720235271
way to conflate ten arguments with no substance or any factual backing...

I'm a Trump-supporter. A conservative republican

That said, I'm also pro-abortion.

Abortion has too many worthwhile benefits.

tbh the only people who're anti-abortion are sjw's (in their own right).

>>720235561
so much anger, so little argument or reason...

would you be a white supremacist as well?

>>720232780
I was going to ask "when you abort do you actually kill *someone*? explain" But that has already produced billions of pages of flamewar. So let's try something new.

Religious zealots and other scum are basically people who don't want to ever be happy and who try do destroy every possibility for the other people to ever be happy in their life.
You are actually terrified of death. So you want to spoil your very own life in order to survive through abstract ideas like "the Nation", "God" (strictly unproven), "genes", "esthetism" (allegedly), "harmony" (allegedly) or whatever.
...
So you think are not allowed to be ever happy in life because it would harm your (alleged) beautiful ideal and pass your gene to your kid. You also think that:
your child is not not allowed to be ever happy in life because it would harm your (alleged) beautiful ideal and pass your gene to your grand child
your grand child is not not allowed to be ever happy in life because it would harm your (alleged) beautiful ideal and pass your gene to your grand grand grand child.
your grand grand ... grand grand grand...

With this bullshit "moral values theory" of yours, is there any human being who can ever be happy? Don't you realize you're wasting the only thing you really possess (your own existence)?

I'm a proud liberal. To the other libards like me keep this in mind: A bunch of people who call themselves 'conservative' (fortunately not all of them) are predators. There are tons of predators out there, they only have one goal: destroy everything valuable in life, in YOUR life although they don't even know you. Stop being ashamed by defending yourselves against predators. They're easily on the same level as ISIS members in term of religious based douchebaggry although the majority of them happen to be christians. 2nd amendment is your friend (although you don't like it I know that). NO ONE has the right to prevent your freedom and opportunity to seek happiness.

Abortions are a service.

A service that can be charged for.

A charge that creates a market.

Even if if it's small compared to other markets, abortions are a business, and money is exchanging hands somewhere.

Being against abortion is an economically poor choice.

>>720235789
Not that dude, but there is nothing to argue about. Some people don't want to pay for other peoples fucking shit. Call it privileged or whatever you want. But I don't ask for hand outs, and I don't want to give them out

>>720235561

Except I did say we can only advance as fast as our slowest component. The whole "why do I have to pay for someone else's mistake" is such a childish approach, adulthood means you have to stop acting like a spoiled brat and think about whats best for the majority. You are not being scolded by your mom bcs your brother broke a vase, get your head out of your ass.

>>720235789
"smart people always have to clean up the dumb people's shit - but to be honest, the dumb clean your streets, and offices, and look after your sewers adn deliver your dvds from amazon, and string your telephone wires, and mend your roads - and do all the shit jobs you do not want to do that make your nice life possible - so part of the cost of having them do that is sometimes paying for their mistakes."

My Socialist radar is going off the charts. Would you be a cuck as well?

>>720235876
>Any practice in which money exchanges hands is beneficial to the greater good

Jokes on me, you were just pretending to be retarded

>>720235635
actually, Peter is a friend of mine - we met in 1992 when I was a post grad student of his at Monash... but we do not agree on all things.

however, you have not shown any argument that contradicts his position (or mine) just saying it can't be condition does not make it true. if you examine how we regularly make moral decisions it is clear that rationality is a key moral concern, in all moral questions.

if you look at how we determine when a person is dead, rationality is more important than biological processes.

>>720232780
This is why you have to be careful what you post http://traineddog.club

And it's only gonna get worse under Trump.

>>720235952
>adulthood means you have to stop acting like a spoiled brat and think about whats best for the majority.
Not really. You can continue to just care about yourself for the next ~60 years and then die. Who cares what happens to the next generation, you'll be dead.

>>720235683
conflict and war are not the same thing. also, there is no moral force in evolutionary change - it is neither a good nor bad thing,and it cannot be stopped - evolution is merely adaptation to the environment - your argument would suggest that any change to the environment is anti evolutionary - which is simply false.

>>720235600
Certified CUCK

>>720235876
Just like literally every other market, if you ban the market it just goes underground it doesn't go away. That was the only real reason abortion was legalized. Because most people realize a grown adult woman's life is more important than a bundle of cells in her gut and she shouldn't have to risk murder,rape, and torture to get rid of the bundle of cells so she literally doesn't ruin her entire life by having severe PTSD from keeping a child she didn't want to term and the stigma she faces for giving it up for adoption. Or, ya know, be a parent and have over half the things she wanted to do in life ripped away from her because she wasn't strong enough to give up the child after birthing it.

Pro-choice is respecting women as adults and equals and a bundle of cells as not as important as her life and livelihood.
Pro-life is respecting a bundle of cells more than an adult with no care for the adults life and livelihood. Plus it's not like pro-lifers adopt children or donate to causes that help kids in dire straits either. As soon as the kid's born they couldn't give less of a shit about the child's life.

>>720232780

i like to draw giant coathangers on pro-life baby billboards.

'LETS LOVE THEM BOTH!'

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>>720233013

OP thinks sex is a bad thing. Is he a faggot or is he a tumblerina?

>>720235889
yes, I agree. Some people (like you) do not understand that being greedy bastards and not paying their way in society is a self destructive and sociopathic mindset. But you may in time grow up and get wisdom, and see that the cost of a free society is that sometimes people who don't fuck up their own lives (you) have to help people who have fucked up their lives, because if they don't everyone's life gets fucked up because the dumb fuckers will keep fucking it up until even the smart guys are fucked.

get it now?

>>720236075
Assuming there is a next generation, we're all going the way of Japan though perhaps not quite as many social rejects since our culture isn't as toxic to 'outsiders' like Japan. Basically as soon as life extending tech starts advancing most people would rather become functionally immortal than deal with kids. At least that's my plan as long as I don't die from unnatural causes even conservative estimates of technological growth put people a little older and any younger than me in a save window where it's unlikely we'd die naturally before getting cybernetics/nanobots that make ageing a thing of the past and death comes through bad luck or by choice.

>>720236269
Yeah the entire pro-life movement is based on religious irrationality, just like islamic terrorism.

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>>720236075
See, that there is what I would call a leech, wanting everyone to put up with you, wanting all the benefits but none of the responsibilities.
This is why your country is going to shit, it's completely plagued with obese manchildren who can only reply at the best of times is "who cares it's not my problem".

Considering that the pro-choice side has taken it to the extreme where they want the right to slaughter a child literally up to the point of the umbilical cord being cut, I'd say they've gone too damn far. You want a choice, make it before having sex or make it before the child can survive outside your damn womb. Can't make up your mind by then? fuck you, you've made your choice. Don't want to raise it later? Give it up for adoption. Stop slaughtering human beings because you can't deal with the results of your choices!!!!

>>720236006
ah, and you don't know that the word "socialist" means either do you?

Also, please, you are still using the word "cuck"? how very 2015 edgy teen of you.

>>720236025
>the double retard switch
Sweet Jesus they're evolving. We should have aborted you.

>>720236680
>Not even comprehending a post before replying

That trifecta of retardation

>>720236075
>You can continue to just care about yourself for the next ~60 years and then die.

a lonely life, and death. and one in which you will continually be forced to pay for ignoring cheaply solved problems

and if you manage to avoid paying - then you are a leech. you are not a libertarian or a freemarketeer. you are just a greedy selfish shortsighted bastard.

>>720236507
single payer healthcare would cost tax payers less than our current system, getting rid of student debt and having tuition free public universities (which the person you're replying to's parents had that) would free up our economy too. Literally billions of dollars would flood the economy from now not barely getting by students and would do nothing but help the person you're replying too's job. It would essentially bump us back up to the best economy in the world, pretty easily I might add.

>>720236243
certified idiot, who does not know what "cuck" means, and who thinks using that word makes him look - what? clever? Big? Funny?

come back with an argument, gimp boy

>>720236779
>Being so retarded that you think others are retarded.
The legendary quadtard! I thought it was only a myth!

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>>720232780

>>720236827
>you are just a greedy selfish shortsighted bastard
Yes, this is me. I'm not a libertarian at all. I don't even vote.

>>720233546
>my tax money pays for it
You are genuinely fucking retarded. If I could reach through this screen and retroactively abort you, I would.

>>720236587
If you want welfare and aren't a mooching cunt of a mother you need to work for it or prove you're too disabled to work. Also it would cost less tax dollars if we had single payer as our current system pushes poor people into neglecting their health until a completely treatable and small problem becomes an untreatable huge problem that leaves them in the hospital draining tax dollars until they die. This refusal to seek medical help because they can't afford it as the biggest reason our current healthcare system is more expensive for everyone involved than a single payer system.

>>720236830
all true.

I just do not understand why so many Americans are so keen to give huge profits to insurance companies, private hospitals and all their lawyers and administrators, and get such shitty health care in return - paying two to four times what they would in a single payer system, just because they don't want to pay for other people... fuck that - insurance is all about paying for other people...

>>720233699
condoms break, the pill can fail, rape can happen, unless you want women to stop having sex with us there's gonna be accidental pregnancy.
plus when abotion takes place it's barely a fetus, just a collection of cells. I might have a problem if it's an abortion after more than three months, caus by then it can feel pain and has nerves etc, but previous to that who gives a shit?
May as well ban masturbation and women having periods.

>>720236608
"Considering that the pro-choice side has taken it to the extreme where they want the right to slaughter a child literally up to the point of the umbilical cord being cut"

Nice strawman. I've never, ever, met a pro-choice person who wanted the legal abortion window to be past 26 weeks into the pregnancy barring a medically necessary abortion which would only happen if they know it's not late enough in development that it would survive outside the womb otherwise they preform a c-section and the mother and pre-mature child survives.

If you're a person who would get an abortion you shouldn't be raising a child anyway. Abortion seems fine to me.

>>720233779
Unprotected sex with strangers feels good but so does heroin.

>>720236175
>conflict and war are not the same thing
I never said war and neither did the post I was responding to. Although, conflict breeds war; not in the literal 'nation' sense, but in the colloquial "at war with x" sense.
>also, there is no moral force in evolutionary change - it is neither a good nor bad thing,and it cannot be stopped - evolution is merely adaptation to the environment.
All of this is irrelevant.
>your argument would suggest that any change to the environment is anti evolutionary - which is simply false.
I never made an argument. I made three claims.
I think you're confusing me with someone else.
Pay more attention to writing style when responding to posts in order to avoid this in the future.

>>720237193
That's because the U.S. is a corporate oligarchy and has been for decades. Bernie was going to put a stop to that but $hillary rigged the primary and cheated him his obvious win where in every poll imaginable showed he would've kicked Trumps ass.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5tu32CCA_Ig

>>720237234
Main function of sex is procreation. Understand the risks and accept consequences.

You're literally just a collection of cells too.

Menstruation and masturbation so not create people.

I swear I caught your autism.

>>720234992
Because their mistakes would join a gang and you'll have to pay for their life in prison which costs more in the long run.

>>720237095
actually - the layers of admin at all levels (insurance companies, managment of private health care companies legal liason, government departments needed to inspect andregulate and co-ordinate) as well as shareholder profits and inflated management salaries, unregulated profiteering by drug companies (hey, we love the freemarket, just don't allow anyone to bring in cheap drugs from Canada) and the cost of medical malpractice insurance and huge payoffs for small injuries - all add up. Most poor people just die fast of a nasty infection or something cheap to treat like late stage cancer (previously undiagnosed)

it is alzheimers and early detected cancer that is expensive and long term...

>>720237239
Nancy Pelosi... "it's not a child until you take it home from the hospital"

>>720237531
What if we just relied more heavily on capital punishment instead of life sentences?

>>720232780
Absolutely correct

>>720237475
>Main function of sex is procreation
says the virgin who has never studied psychology or biology...

>>720233333
Nice

>>720237475
Why force yourself if you don't have to? We could just limit it to early stage pregnancies. Also in the big picture, no abortion means more people and more people means more overpopulation. From a practical standpoint abortion is better. I think pro-lifers are just being self-righteous.

>>720237620
Cool, doesn't mean she supports post legal window abortion that aren't medically necessary. The legal window cuts off when it does because roughly 30 weeks in it develops nerve endings and sometimes shortly after that it can experience pain. Therefore, regardless of whether you consider it a child or not, not allowing an abortion that would be painful that which is being aborted is unethical unless it's medically necessary where in the mother's life outweighs that which is being aborted. If you don't think so, you're a sexist, period.

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>>720233333
Then why aren't eggs called birds? And why aren't seeds called plants?
By extension carbon atoms are birds too, cause birds are formed by carbon. And they're plants as well, cause plants are formed by carbon.
quints wasted by a retard

>>720233534
If you think murder is a made up rule then I guess you can say all rules are made up

>>720237391
Does that mean you should be punished your entire life for a stupid decision?

>>720237669
Over 4% of executions are PROVEN to be innocent people after they die. That's 1 in 25 and doesn't include those who were innocent, but not ever proven to be. Even if it was .1% of those executed that's still way too much in my view. If I were in a jury and a crime had capital punishment as a common punishment knowing there's at least a 1 in 25 chance the person standing there is innocent I couldn't get myself to convict them. I wouldn't be surprised if obstruction of justice happens because of this pretty often really.

>>720233546
No public money goes towards abortion. If you believe it does then you probably also believe in alternative facts.

>>720237998
Everyone dies eventually.

>>720237932
well, all moral rules are made up, but some are more justified than others. But your use of the term "murder" presupposes that this is an unjustified killing of a rational person - abortion is none of those things.

>>720238080
My ex got one from the use of a charity and state funding. If you're very poor and can't afford to pay the procedure yourself you can get someone to drive you there and have the state pay for it.

>>720238080
WA state I mean

>>720238140
yes, that is true. So what?

>>720238140
Wow, you are the lamest, laziest troll I've ever come across

>>720237815
Funny, because what the republicans are calling for is a 20 week ban, which isn't exactly trying to ban all abortions. Actually Nancy believe that no one should be able to make the decision for a woman AT ANY TIME. So, who's the monster? The incredibly rare case where it's one life or the other has always been an exception and NO ONE is asking to close that but abortion with no limits? That's as insane as banning them under any circumstances. So if we can get past that it becomes a question of who should pay for it and that's really what it boils down to, the rest is grandstanding isn't it?

Every person that isn't pro-choice should be forced to adopt the unaborted children so that they grow up in a wholesome environment. Otherwise kids will be born into poverty, starvation, drugs, and crime. If pro-lifers want to carry a moral mantle then they bear the consequences.

I'm a pro-choice autist that thinks a need to pass on genes is narcissistic.

>>720238277
Sorry. I need to kill 30 minutes before work, and absolutely nothing else is going on.

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>>720237815
>Agree with what I'm saying or you suck as a human being

>>720233546
Are you also against having access to other publicly funded medical procedures? What about publicly funded education? What about publicly funded roads? If people want medical aid, education and roads, they should just pay for it all themselves, right?

>>720238080
The fuck it doesn't. By freeing up money for everything else, it does in fact go to pay for abortions. try your legal linguistic gymnastics elsewhere, this isn't a courtroom, it's 4chan.

>>720238361
So rob me of my income and force me to pay for your bad choices? Yeah, fuck you too.

>>720238507
or ask you to pay your fair share of the costs of having a decent society? yeah.

now go fuck yourself and pay up you leech

>>720238507
Yeah, because you'll never make a bad decision in your life ever and those who do should live with the burden for the rest of their lives.

>>720238507
It's funny you say that, because the whole time it kinda sounds like that's what pro lifers are asking for.

>>720238507
>>720238715
besides, plenty of accidents happen even when using protection, so it's not -just- "bad decisions".
Or are you advocating for abstinence and chastity belts?

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>muh consciousness defines humanity

>muh clump of cells rhetoric

Reminder that the only difference between a fetus, a toddler, and s grown man is time, nutrients, and nothing else and that there's no principled argument saying otherwise. Any and all arguments that justifies dehumanizing the unborn is either flip-flopped or fucked-up when the same reasoning is applied to the post-born.

Pro-Stitute

>>720238797
>every human is made of carbon atoms
>therefore carbon atoms are sacred

great logic, shit-for-brains

>>720238283
She is a monster then I agree. There's whackos in every political group.

20 week ban? You can't have an abortion after 20 weeks? Well if that's what you mean then first off almost all abortions happen within the first 10 weeks so if they're doing that to reduce abortions that's not gonna' do much at all. However no science has shown any reason to stop until 30 weeks in. Before 30 weeks nerve endings haven't even developed so there's no chance of pain being experienced and it's solidly concluded there is no consciousness until after 30 weeks either. So scientifically, reducing the legal window lower than what is now, 26 weeks, is just bullshit. All it's doing is screwing over women who were struggling to decide to or having trouble getting the chance to have an abortion. A controlling boyfriend or family can make it virtually impossible to get one where in it could take past 20 weeks in before she gets the chance to.

If by 20 week ban you mean they have to wait till they're atleast 20 weeks pregnant to have an abortion that'd bottle neck abortion procedures leaving many women out of luck because an abortion couldn't be scheduled in time and it's literally torture as forcing a woman to keep a pregnancy when she doesn't want it is classified as torture by the UN

>>720238507
Couldn't we just make them pay for it?
Outside of cases where an abortion is 'justified' (rape, risk to the mother, etc), just force the mother to pay for it. If they lack the funds at the time, pursue them with the same force we do student loans.

>>720233224
Underrated post

>>720238380
If you think a bundle of cells is more important than a grown adult woman you have a horribly poor view of women so you are sexist. It's basic reasoning and logic is it not?

>>720238881
It's not about atoms, it's about genetic makeup. All the genetic material that a person will ever need in it's lifetime is given to him/her at conception.

Great false equivalence tho

Anything without the capability for higher level thought and metacognition is not human and should be allowed to be aborted or canned. Doesn't matter if it's inside or outside the womb.

This means fetuses, babies, children until 2-3yo, retards, and (You) should all be up for abortion.

>>720239014
What's so sacred about genetics then? My equivalence still stands, I was just taking it to the absurd level to show you how absurd your argument really is.

>>720238797
the only difference between a grown man and a corpse is time, so therefore all grown men are morally the same as corpses and we can harvest their organs or burnthem.

sorry, what principled argument have you against this? what do you mean by "principled"? We are not dehumanizing - the unborn fertilised egg is human - but it is not a person. it is not a moral subject.

>>720238881
If it's genetically human, It's genetically human.
What completly arbitrary scale do you judge human life on?

>>720239171
A corps is dead, a fetus is alive.

>>720239112
Nothing. It's the retard's attempt at latching onto something based in reality so his other outlandish beliefs aren't as easily lambasted.

100 years ago he would have been claiming the "soul" is given at conception.

>>720239014
actually, this isn't true either. Wow, your biology scores must have been low...

>>720232780
They should make a federal law to allow them to get an abortion with the condition that they are to be medically sterilized. It's fair, you lose the right to procreate since you don't value your own children's life. That way, the state will pay for the abortion, but they will never be able to have another abortion since they will be sterile. It's only fair.

Women who try to have an abortion on their own should be charged with childslaughter.

Feminists are right, it is their body, but the child is another, separate body. Killing it is murder.

>>720239264
only time stands between them. Your argument, not mine...

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>>720239005


Not really, what it sounds like to me is more along the lines of "I want special privileges and special treatment from society because i have a vagina".

I'll tell you what, If i was to, god forbid, impregnate a woman, and said woman wanted to abort my son or daughter, I would probably tie the bitch in my basement and keep her there until she gives birth, specially if retards who say things like "nobody should tell a woman what to do with her body" end up being the same people who make our laws.

Nobody should tell a woman what to do with her body? Well, no woman is going to choose for me whether my kids live or die, fuck you.

>>720239272
What isn't true.
During what other point in one's life does he/she gain genetic material?

>>720239326
I like this idea a lot

>>720239356
There's another difference, death and life.

>>720239272
>thinking Trumpanzees are capable of understanding meiosis

>>720232780
I'd very much prefer not allowing a child to live a miserable life and grow up to a person who will only be a number on crime rate statistics.

Also, you don't have an arguement. You have a statement.

>>720239469
I voted for Jill Stein.

>>720239391
Again, taking the life of something not even born yet as more important than the living breathing human being you fucked. Thank you for proving my point that you're a sexist bastard.

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>>720239326

>>720239270
actually, the Catholic Church argued that the soul was not fully in place until after "quickening" - the growing foetus was not fully ensouled and a human being until it was moving int he womb. Before that it only had an animal life, not a humen one.

also, note problems with twins (single egg at conception, splits after a while when multicelled - one or two souls at conception?) One twin may be soulless, and an abomination...

>>720239272
A person gains all 46 chromosomes at conception.

>>720232780
> Recognising that people need to be given choice, or they are less than human.
> Somehow autistic sociopath.

>>720239391
You sound like a retard. And no woman is going to abort your planned child. Abortion is for when you're not ready to have a kid or got raped. There's already enough retards in the world and I'd hate to bring in another human who's probably going to have the same upbringing as some fedora wearing conservative on 4chan

>>720234189

Nigga u dumb as shit

>>720239392
Genetic material and genome or genetic makeup aren't the same.
Your genome isn't "finalized" for awhile after "conception," which I'm going to define as sperm meeting ovum.
>>720239571
Wrong.

>>720239469
meiosis Has nothing to do with gaining genetic material. Meiosis simply replicates genetic material.

>>720239489
It's been proven one of the only things libtards have done to reduce crime is legalizing abortions. Literally millions of criminals would exist and be in prison or wreaking havoc on society right now if they weren't aborted from their poor often morally bankrupt mothers. Now if they can just stop bitching about guns and let sane law abiding citizens carry like they damn well should be, we could be one of the most law abiding 1st world countries in the world.

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>>720232780
Spend a week shadowing or working in a labor and delivery department in a hospital anywhere in America.

You'll quickly realize 90% of the people having babies are exactly the type of people that SHOULD NOT be having babies. Borderline retarded people, legit retarded people, drug and alcohol addicts, uneducated inner city trash, broke and uneducated single trailer park trash moms, overly dramatic hispanic cunts that plan on living off welfare all their life, and women who were knocked up by a physically abusive man.

Then spend a week in the NICU and/or PICU and/or a foster home and/or a group home for troubled kids or some shit like that, and see how fucked up the lives of these kids end up being.

These uneducated victims of abuse end up becoming the tumblr retards that support hillary, they live off welfare and go by their parents' example of not getting an education or doing anything with their lives. These babies end up being what ruins society.

That's why I'm pro-choice, I just wish we could make it easier and more accessible so that all these broke fucking retards can get that little monster flushed out whenever they want without any hesitation.

>>720239532
Did you know catholic women abort children more than any other religious or nonreligious group? Oh the hypocrisy.

>>720239326
That sounds highly authoratarian for an American.

>they live off welfare and go by their parents' example of not getting an education or doing anything with their lives. These babies end up being what ruins society

that's 90% of the people on /b/ tho

>>720239886
>>720239743

Woops, forgot to tag

>>720239816
Those aren't real catholics though. They're a tiny minority of a great religion.

>>720232780
Fetus is a growth out of the woman's own body. It happens to have different DNA - just like cancer does.

Logic dictates that if it's ok to remove tumors, it's ok to remove a fetus.

Once it's viable on it's own, outside the womb, well, that's a different story. But I can think of a few children (and grown adults) that could be done away with...

>This thing is inconvenient...lemme kill it.

Honestly if there's a life threatening risk either physical or mental...ok I get abortion. Don't sacrifice a mother's life for a child. But beyond that no other reasons justify killing an unborn child. Being given up does not make for the best start in life but at least its a start in life.

>>720239719
I'm not a libertarian. I very much prefer an utilitarian way of life with certain flexibilities.

If a system works, it works. It doesn't matter who made it.

>>720238715
I live with the consequences of every bad decision I've ever made. Some fade, some go away with work toward fixing them but I don't expect someone else to fix my problems. It's called being an adult. By the way, that burden of raising a child doesn't last for the rest of your life, only an average of 18 years.

>>720239392
interaction with sunlight, various chemicals, viruses (can rewrite major portions of the DNA and this can be passed on)

If you are female about half your cells will use one x from your mother, half will use the other x from your father - this random choice means half your body is actually different genetically functionally from the other half (a problem that may explain a lot about women...)

Also, cellular reproduction is not perfect - glitches occur. Not all of them cancerous, but you have thousands of cells in your body that are unique, and do not share the exact same DNA as the others.

Also, sperm cells in older men change - look up downs or haemophilia.

your body is not a set of genes that remain unchanged.

also, note - the bacterial load in your body - especially your gut = more foreign DNA than you might expect...

>>720239326
I'm not ready for kids right now, but I might be at a later point in my life when I'm more emotionally and financially stable
>then you lose your right to kids for as long as you live

seems fair?????

>>720239709
>the process by which genetic information is exchanged has nothing to do with gaining genetic material
G.E.D recipient? How the fuck do you think haploid cells become diploid?

>>720239743
Why not also kill these kids in foster care and living in shit situations to unprepared mothers?

>>720240106
It's reversible though...

>>720239646
only niggers are impressed by shiney baubles and stings of numbers.

here look and be amazed
66666666666

isn'tthat wonderful?

how about 7777777777?

wow, fantastic.

>>720240043
Why would you want to promote the perpetuation of burdens when there are options to alleviate them?
Sorry you had to carry some shitty burdens, but if you could take away some of those burdens, wouldn't you?

>>720232780
No one "needs" to pass their genes on the planet has already reached overpopulation. Pro lifers are Bible thumping bigots only capable of regurgitating what their pastor tells them the Bible says. Because most of them can't read. Discuss.

>>720239871
It's not authoritarian, it's give and take, it's comprise, it's a social contract.

With that law I proposed here:>>720239326 the woman is given the choice not to be a whore and have the state pay for her abortions constantly whenever she forgot to take her pills. She's given the right to have a child. She's given the right even to abort her own child. The state would simply be asking for something in return and it's all her choice, her choice of losing the ability to procreate after murdering her own. The state will even pay for removing her genes from the gene pool, since that's what she did before.

When a murderer goes on a shooting spree, he will always be a murderer, he can never give that life back. Abortion is murder, so it needs to be treated like it, even if it is the child of a degenerate who would kill their own blood.

>>720240170
I would love to.

don't have a problem with either as long as the expense they endure...is not paid for with others peoples money...exactly government..Fuck planned parenthood!...make your own damn decisions with your own damn money.....

>>720240330
>abortion is murder
Define murder.
Then define human.

>>720239982
Hey moron, a tumor only has one person's DNA sequence, the baby inside a mother has the separate DNA of both parents.

>>720239610
Speak for yourself, I really don't give a crap if X woman wants to be involved or not with the upbringing of an unplanned child, she's still not gonna make the decision of killing it without me having a say in it. Period.

>>720240043
>that burden of raising a child doesn't last for the rest of your life, only an average of 18 years.

you are not a parent then. My son is 34. He is not a burden, in any conventional sense, but I worry about him, and think of him, and care for him, and am proud of him, and fear for him, every fucking day, and always will.

kids are not something you throw away when they get the vote.

>>720240190
depends on the kind of sterilization

>>720240170
If they had just had an abortion they wouldn't be in foster care.

>>720240056
I never said genes don't change, I said that you don't add on genes.

>>720240106
>I'm not ready for kids right now, but I might be at a later point in my life when I'm more emotionally and financially stable

Don't have sex if you can't deal with the consequences. If you're not ready for kids, don't have sex you stupid whore.

>>720240170
At that point, they've developed consciousness. If it was some vegetable kid that's trach-dependent, vent-dependent, G-tube-dependent, and bed-bound, I would absolutely support euthanizing something like that. But once you reach a certain age, you develop consciousness, and then it starts to sound cruel to take life away from something that has a crude understanding of life and their existence.

>>720240508
You don't "get" your genes immediately after conception either.

>>720240106
then don't whore around, easy enough right?

>>720240376
> fuck planned parenthood
> fuck healthcare for poor people!

You realize that abortion is a negligible fraction of what they do, right? Most of it is pretty straightforward woman's healthcare.

>>720240509
As great as it would be if it worked that way, it just doesn't.

>>720239940
eh I wouldn't say 24% of all abortions done by roman catholics is a 'tiny minority' http://www.lifenews.com/2016/05/13/shocking-report-shows-54-of-women-getting-abortions-are-christians/

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>>720240411
I'm actually liberal too, and I like Trump is doing this. Not all liberals have the same beliefs.
>pic related

https://www.congress.gov/bill/115th-congress/house-bill/586

>>720233546
Taxes aren't about you and what will benefit you. They're about society as a whole. Get your head out your ass.

>>720240008
What if it's a rape baby and she'd literally lose her sanity if she was forced to keep it to term?

>>720240508
>All the genetic material that a person will ever need in it's lifetime is given to him/her at conception.

Is what you said. Well, maybe all they "need" but not all they will get.

And anyway, so what? you are a unique combination, probably never seen before and never seen again - so what? genes don't have moral value...
being unique does not have moral value.

>>720232780
I never actually thought about it this way. Pro-choicers are more likely not to pass on their genes and beliefs since they're less likely to have kids, so eventually they'll die out, like non-heterosexuals.

>>720240509
>>720240592

Ah yes, abstinence. The great cure that has worked wonders for centuries.

Let's be honest, abortions lower taxes. Kids cost how much now? Like 2 or 3 million dollars or something to raise and put through school?

How much does an abortion cost?

Wouldn't you rather get rid of an ungrateful little criminal welfare-whore scumbag before they're even born, instead of pretending they actually have some chance of doing something with their life?

>>720233070
My main argument against it is "you had the choice already - you chose to have sex"

As far as I'm concerned pro-choice is pro-life. Now hold on a second I know you're going to get excited about this but waiting until you have a better lifestyle to provide the best childhood and educational experience possible for a new child means that child grows up a better person. I also think that birth control should be free as well as any doctor visits necessary to acquire birth control. You have one opportunity to give a child the best life possible it is something I stress over when thinking about my daughter everyday. I do everything I can to raise her to be a good person to be an honest person to be an intelligent person. And I wouldn't give her up for anything in the world. I live an okay lifestyle I own two businesses trying to start up a third. My daughter is home-schooled and doing very well. However if somebody is in a situation where if they do not have the ability to care for a child and it will inhibit their ability to take care of themselves then why force that person to go through the pregnancy. There is a reason why Roe versus Wade passed. I think all this anti-abortion sentiment is more about conservatives pushing back against the pro intellectual movement but it's been going on and which people are stepping away from religion and conservative values that don't make any sense. You are welcome to have your opinions and ideas however it is nobody else's position to force or decide how somebody else live their life and pro-life is forcing upon somebody else a lifestyle which they may not want or a life decision that they may not want.

>>720240638
Well, they have to deal with the consequences. It's like trying to defend a murderer, saying they shouldn't deserve prison or death sentence, when the whole time it was the murderer's choice to premeditate killing a human.

>>720240434
But she can. I mean when it comes down to it, you literally can't stop her. Before abortion was legal in the US women just went to Mexico for them. In the end forcing her to have your child makes you no better than some middle Eastern warlords. You can be buthurt she doesn't want your baby but that's about the only choice you have.

>>720240030
'libtad' is referring to liberals not libertarians. Libertarians support gun rights because they actually understand the consitution. Liberals don't support gun rights because they think being like the UK where every right is truly just a privilege that can be taken away overnight if the higher ups feel like is smarter than being a truly free country where the people come first not the government

>>720240818
Yes, people should refrain from expressing their love towards their partner. Fuck these pesky primal urges, abstinence is a foolproof method because humans are not emotional beings at all.

>>720233701
I'd rather pay for their execution than their abortion or lifetime stay in jail, but "he dindu nuffin".

>>720240790
>Ah yes, abstinence. The great cure that has worked wonders for centuries.
Which is why the sterilzation part will make it work.

>>720240501
Well too late..still an issue. So why not murder them?

>>720240530
So basically you just personally decide when you think a human life is viable and when taking human life is cruel and justify the killing of everything else.
That's great for you if everyone has the same moral perception of what constitutes a worthwhile life.

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>>720240725
>this is a person despite having 92 chromosomes
Any defense?
Is miscarriage manslaughter then? Reckless endangerment leading to death of a "person?"

>>720240847
>all murder is equally wrong
You'd make a terrible judge.