>>720003192 Problem with this is trump supporters already had insurance before Obamacare made the price go up 400%
Sure you can keep it if you like it, if you can afford it. Otherwise you can pick something cheaper like we are subsidizing for all the apes. Want to play passive aggressive and not insure yourself? There will be a fine for that. Pay no attention to the fact we never fined the chimps for not ever having it in the first place. If they cannot afford it, we will pay for them with your tax dollars, which are increasing being spent on business of no matter to the working class.
>>720003531 It costs you $695 a year if you decide not to have insurance. Thats roughly 58 bucks a month. Pretty cheap health insurance plan if you ask me. Besides if you are young and healthy you dont need insurance unless you get in some crazy catastrophic accident.
>>720004045 Employer might pay any amount. So what? That is my employer. They are paying on my behalf. The money they are paying on my behalf is part of my compensation. It's not some sort of social program. They do not pay for my insurance out of the goodness of their heart. I look at any money my employer might pay as money I am paying myself. If my boss did not have to pay that money, that money would be available to my boss to pay more salary to me.
>>720004443 >pretty sure Obama fucked me. same. deductible, copay went up. My Primary Care provider sold out their blood/xray lab that's still in the same building so whenever I need blood drawn or an xray I have to pay out of network charges. >out of network >same fucking building someone's being taken to the bank!
>>720003192 I've got bells palsy and i can go get treatment for free. Quite fast and quite efficient in one of the most advanced hospitals in country with the best equipment and it dosent bankrupt me each time, seriously why dont you have a national health service? Why? Yes it costs a little more, yes theres people that fall through the cracks and abuse the system but still? Just why man? Id much prefer for a few people to abuse the system and get caught than have to pay thousands for a single treatment and sit and cry muh tax dollars
>>720004582 Exactly, every year your premium might stay the same, but you will pay more and more out of pocket. Morons like the people involved in this post don't notice actual cost increases, and are fooled by party rhetoric.
>>720004632 not true. I've paid $80 a month for silver tier coverage for the past two years and this year it went down to $40 a month (because I quit smoking I think). I'm pretty happy, but single payer would be better no doubt
>>720004652 >theres people that fall through the cracks and abuse the system when these people are discovered, they need to be hit with hefty fines that are put back into the healthcare system (and not some CEO's pocket)
>>720004941 this guy gets it. We're all better off being lazy fucks and letting others pay for our shit. The trouble is as soon as we try to jump on the lazy train, we'd be caught and inspected with a fine tooth comb, while others are able to breeze along with little-to-no scrutiny
all the racism of the anti-healthcare side probably has a lot more weight these days. i'm pretty sure they're right now before I thought the state was paying for them now I know the state is paying for them and basically if they're black they shouldn't be paid for at all anymore
>>720004941 this is I have self employed friends, poor as shit that still can't fucking afford HS and don't qualify for subsidies. I literally know no one who benefited from the ACA but literally everyone was hurt by it in the form of rising premiums. the ACA was written by the companies that benefited the most from it. Fuck you, Obama
>>720004474 Lol my insurance literally comes out of my paycheck. If I drop it and get market place insurance, that money goes back on my paycheck... I thought Trump supporters weren't white trash without jobs...
>>720005675 right, google it and find other sources - basically this idea that welfare and obamacare are for all those lazy blacks is a tired old racist idea - there are plenty of white folks on it too (not to mentions kids, disabled americans/veterans, elderly, etc)
>>720005537 Wait times for basic procedures are fucking insane. Let's say you have back pain. In the states, they'd schedule you for an MRI whenever is convenient for you. In Canada, get ready to wait 6 to 18 months.
Canada's system is fine if you broke your arm and need a cast. It fucking sucks if you have anything complicated though.
I'd also like to point out that the US pretty much subsidizes the rest of the world's healthcare. A drug company will sell their meds for much cheaper in other countries because they know they can make up the difference in the states.
If the US goes to a single payer system, drug prices around the world will skyrocket.
>>720006146 >because it's a proven failure you piece of dog shit.
I could point out that free market systems were the basis for the most successful economies and countries in human history, but that is only what's partially wrong with your position.
Whats also wrong about it is that you think stealing peoples money and allowing politicians to pick industry favorites with money that doesn't belong to them is somehow better than people using their own money to purchase their own healthcare tailored to their own needs and desires.
>>720006146 implying we ever had a supply-side healthcare economy. they pick and choose who the winners are, and it's who's in the best with the right person. I'd never even heard of Ambetter before the ACA, now everyone I know on the ACA has it. Whose dick did Ambetter suck?
because regan brainwashed everyone in the 80's into thinking a free public option would make us into soviet russia. Even Though it would actually bring down rates for private insurance because of the competition, so everyone would benefit, rich and poor.
The insurances companies obviously don't want competition so they lobby to the GOP heavily, and the GOP spams the airwaves with absurd propaganda that working class plebs buy hook line and sinker.
>>720005460 Trump supporter with full time job who gets health insurance from his employer here.
That doesn't mean I should lol away while the government makes a massive grab for power with something like the individual mandate. If they can tell us that we have to buy something we may not need, want, or believe in the principle of, what will they do next?
Welcome to America faggot, where we were supposed to be free from this shit.
I've had a plan since I stopped being s kid and got a job. The problem is all plans suck now that it costs a fortune to have a plan better than what's offered by the shit Obama care. I used to have great plans every where I worked.
>>720006151 As an American living as a PR in Canada, I can say from personal experience that the wait time narrative is total bs, our at least BC is pretty good. Maybe other provinces are worse, I've heard bad things about Quebec - but it's Quebec, so of course it's awful
I had to work under the table at a second job to make money for a year just to afford my apartment, and now my Obamacare health coverage was pulled for unreported taxes (even though Negros sling dope here without ever paying a dime to the state.)
Meanwhile some nigger doesn't even go out and get a job and they don't get a fine or punishment. He'll have 4 kids with 4 different women, who he never visits or pays child support for.
If I lose my apartment then my white ass is out on the street. If the blax lose their apartment then the government just builds new section 8 housing for them.
When Bush was prez I had Blue Cross Blue Shield and it covered everything. Doctor's visits, drug prescriptions, therapy visits. With Obamacare I felt like they had a magnifying glass over my credit, job history, and living situation year round. And my Obamacare didn't cover shit. Barely covered the copay at most places (if they even accepted my insurance), and covered next to nothing on my medications. I have more medical debt after Obama's presidency than ever before.
>>720006344 It's a combination of a lot of things, what you mentioned is certainly part of it. You have old people who are bored and lonely, who exaggerate or straight up lie about symptoms because going to the doctor means someone will pay attention and take care of them. You have people who go to the doctor for every little cough and cut.
Not to mention, it's a government program, so the bottom line is always being watched. Someone goes to the doctor with back pain and there is no obvious reason why... well, throw them on the waiting list for an MRI. It's only a 10 month wait. In the meantime, maybe it will clear up on it's own, or they'll pay out of pocket to see a private doc, or, and this is the best case scenario, the patient just fucking dies and then you don't have to deal with it.
The fucking individual mandate has absolutely nothing to do with preexisting conditions. Nobody cared about preventing insurance companies from refusing sick people. The problem is that we don't want the incompetent government telling us how to spend our money.
The requirement is the only part of public health care I don't agree with. It should be an option. You'd be retarded not the take the option, but americans really like their illusion of freedom, so simply dropping the mandatory aspect of a public option would help to gain support from both sides.
From a lawmaker's perspective, people obviously are retarded and don't know what's best for them. So they NEED to be forced to get their free healthcare.
From my perspective a little darwinian culling isn't such a bad thing. Lets let the people that pass up free healthcare die out from easily curable ailments.
>>720007223 Says who? That ridiculously made up graph posted earlier? Ive lived here for 36 years and have known dozens of people who have had serious injuries including myself...I know exactly zero people who are bankrupt
>>720006151 Sounds exhaggerated. In regular countries, like Sweden - MRI's are not just taken randomly because of a bit of pain - there's an medical investigation first. If you tell your amurican doctor that you've got back pains and he instantly sends you to an expensive MRI scan - you are being tricked into paying for something you might not even need, ever. By the way - an non-emergency MRI scan will probably not take more than 2-3 months to order in any other civilized country.
A public option is.....ready for it?.....an.....OPTION.
Private insurance still existed under obamacare. No one EVER wanted to ban private insurance companies. NO one ever thought a government monopoly on insurance was a good idea. If you thought that, then you believe the absurd propaganda. Your IQ is likely 110 or lower.
>>720007411 Oh and by the way; Swedish healthcare is tax financed by county/region. I Believe I pay 30% of my income to the county/regional gourvernment & that covers healthcare, supports our local transport system & any communal thing you can think off like the library, schools, water system, beach maintenance.
Since I don't make more than $5k a month I pay zero to the equivelant of federal gouvernment.
I bet you pay close to the same amount in income tax as I do; yet you have to pay for more stuff yourself. HF in your 3rd world country.
>>720006975 That is another thing people don't realize about the Canadian system. It's not a national healthcare system, it's provincial. Each province runs their own.
Where you live in British Columbia might not have long wait times, but other places in the province might, or you have to travel hours away from your local hospital or clinic to have procedures and tests done.
Go to another province and again, in one location it might run smoothly, for some people. And for others it's a total cluster fuck.
>>720007536 >lol what do you mean there isn't an option? >If you don't want to use the state endorse medical system that is already forcibly taken from your pay check every week, just spend even more money on another medical service that has to inflate it's prices to compete with the state run medical services since it doesn't actually need to earn it's money since it can just steal it, indefinitely remaining open with a never ending budget.
This is typical leftist trigglypuff shit. They can't imagine any complex system being run by anything but he government. But, to be fair, they spent at least 13 years in government run schools that are 25th in the WORLD and they believe that this is effective management.
Let's pretend it's not the GOP that fucked over the education system. Let's also pretend it's not the GOP holding back science, fighting against evolution, and pushing forward fake science for their ancient God.
Lets pretend it's not the GOP that denies scientific consensus.
>>720008228 I love the Canadian system. You get your device certified, then the province tells you what they will pay for it. No lobbyists threatening you if you don't pay, no crazy fucks ripping up deals because they get paid more by the competitors.
>>720003192 There are plenty of valid arguments against government run healthcare, but saying that our current system is just fine and dandy and that the cost of seeing a doctor in this country is reasonable is pure delusion.
>>720008801 Because that's all they have. Ask them to look at which countries have the best schools in the world then ask them if they're government run. The answer, of course, will be yes. These types of ''people'' can't into logic to save their lives. They don't see that poor leadership is the problem, not the structure of government itself. There is a reason no libertarian can point to a well-functioning state governed by libertarian principles.
>>720005272 700,000 Americans out of more than 300 million, in fact are only the poor and the sick who disappear not? In fact every American is persuaded to realize the "American dream", and nobody wants to pay to treat the cancer of his neighbor, but nobody is considering needing expensive care! But when that happens you only have to hope to heal without being ruined It seems that our system of health is called "socialist", but we do not care to know if you can pay for us to treat you with us, besides few American tourists have been ruined by our system of health A report showed how little you did with your "9/11 heros", billions spent on building buildings, but sick heroes that you let in total indifference, even the Chernobyl liquidators were very much Better cared for by the Russian state .....
>>720006784 In not arguing that a government controlled healthcare system, that didn't focus on a profit but rather aimed to break even would be bad. A law that forces you to use certain company's by offering incentives, and forces you to buy the product creates a monopoly. here is an example. Imagine if we had universal gasoline coverage, and a majority of people who could not afford gasoline were subsidized by Exxon mobil. I could go to the shell station everyday, but still be giving money to Exxon through the price hikes in paying for others gasoline . I would naturally try to opt out and not use gasoline, but then I get a fine of 50$ a month for not using gasoline at all that still subsidies Exxon mobil. Very quickly Exxon Mobil would have a monopoly on gasoline. The alternative is health care provided by the government at cost, with no preference for race, age, sexual preference or any other factor. Throw in a government that mandates drug prices based off the price to create the drug and to produce the drug and you have a good system.
>>720007214 >using my money to pay for tyrone's healthcare yeah, nah. if you can afford it on your own or through an employer great if you can't fuck you for being so shitty. there should be no "free" option paid for by taxes
>>720006380 very simple because the system is broken. Get rid of the insurance companies. Do it like in Europe, government gets taxes from everyone, pays nearly everything in healthcare. SO that if you get sick you only need to pay a small fee. Also get rid of the insurance companies on the hospital side. The reason way the price is so ludicrous high is because of them. Because the hospitals don't want to get sued, simply make it so that a hospital can't get sued. But they can be take into court for malpractice, and an insurance will not help you there.
>>720003531 >Pay no attention to the fact we never fined the chimps for not ever having it in the first place
Bullshit. I've never had or needed health insurance because I'm 24 and have no preexisting conditions. The ACA required that I get health insurance so that the CEOs of the health insurance companies and their cronys acould afford to make 7 figures while still paying out to all the fucking half-dead baby boomers that they can't deny anymore.
Why didn't we cut out insurance companies completely and have completely socialized healthcare? Because republicucks are afraid of socialism and losing jobs. Even if the social program is beneficial to everyone and the job is perpetuating a scam.
>>720006114 And a sizeable portion of them are lazy, don't take care of their children, spend it on drugs or don't have any direction and have been on the system all of their lives.
Welfare is a disease, it props up the weak to be weak and leeches off of the strong. A real welfare system would get these people back to work. They could be doing literally anything as long as there was a net profit to it.
>>720010302 abolish welfare all together disability is now limited to those bedridden you must work for 5 years to build up 6 months of unemployment. You cannot bank any higher than 6 months of unemployment. done
>>720010301 Sounds like you agree with me. Sounds like you are not for forcing people to buy insurance and you are for charging all the negros who had been using our welfare prior to obamacare, for free.
>>720010578 I'm for a step further. Bedridden? Sucks to be you. Hope you were nice to your family or a charitable organization takes pity on you. Otherwise, you and the other dead weight will eventually perish and relieve our burden of your suffering.
How is it a false equivalency? A monopoly is a monopoly, no matter what.
>the government is just institutionalized violence I just realized it's pointless arguing with an american trump voter, if this is how you perceive the government where you live. In other industrialized countries, the government is put in place to actually help people.
>>720010609 No, and not very many people got it for free. The ACA makes me pay 60$/mo on healthcare and sinks 215$/mo of the taxpayers money. Most of that money gets payed out to insurance company employees and the dude sitting at the top. If healthcare were completely socialized most of those people would be cut out, and more money would be available to pay out for medical expenses.
Auto insurance is a scam too. If you saved your auto insurance payment instead of sending it of to the insurance company then you'd be able to afford to pay out most of the time with no deductible. Can your auto insurance say that?
i work around a lot of people and hear horror stories about what ACA did to their rates. people with median salaries paying 1500 a month to insure themselves. plus their insurance has high deductibles and wont pay for anything anyways. I talked to a guy yesterday whos going deaf and his insurance will only pay for 1 hearing aid. the hearing aid for his other ear will cost 9,000. so why the fuck even have insurance just pay for all your shit out of pocket then your fine, a.k.a tax to the impoverish niggers
>>720011926 Run it in to the ground so it can be sold off cheap to their mates. Make a quick buck, cook the figures post-sale to show how much the service improved after selling most of it and take credit for "saving" it.
They did the same with the Post Office. Make it shit, sell it cheap, their mates make a massive ton of money (the initial share price rose immediately by >30% because it was sold undervalued) and they pretend like it's saved the service when in reality it's still just as shit as ever.
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