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She's pregnant. I just found out last night. She told me

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She's pregnant. I just found out last night. She told me it's mine and she's keeping it.

I'm not entirely sure it's mine. I don't have evidence that she's ever cheated on me, but we've been together for over 3 years and it's not like I've had her under full time surveillance or anything. Girls these days and all, you know what I'm saying?

Now she wants to know what my plans are. What do /b/?
>>
Take a paternity test
>>
>>719061230
first off: Hi kyle
second off: the biggest piece of evidence you need is: did you do anything that could lead to pregnancy (fuck without a rubber), if the answer is 'yes' then: You're retarded and it's probably yours.
>>
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Femanon here. I've never understood this crap.

Why would it matter if it's yours or not if the two of you love each other?
>>
https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Scott_Peterson

This

Just dont make the same mistakes as him.
>>
>>719061431
Tits or fuck off
>>
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>>719061431
>Femanon here
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>>719061372
How? The baby isn't born yet?
>>719061425
my names not Kyle. It's Brad. And yes, we fuck without rubbers. She is on the pill, but it didn't work last month apparently
>>719061431
You
>>
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>>719061431
>>
>>719061431
Bait. We won't raise another man's child. She a cheating whore she ain't gonna get a husband
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You're going to have to stick it out until the baby is born and you can run a paternity test. Why you would date someone for 3 years and she actually thought you would cheat on you would make you a pussy ass bitch. She's cheating on you and you don't know it you're a dumbass. You've been with her for 3 years is she the type of girl that would get pregnant from some other dude and pin it on you. How much money do you make a year do you own any houses or property are you worth locking down with a kid ? The fact that you're on 4chan posting this would suggest that you're kind of a dumbass and don't have too much going for you so I doubt she's trying to pin a kid on you. Next time show tits get the fuck out. Her tits not yours faggot
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>>719061431
you're fucking retarded and a fat-ass virgin
>>
>>719061431
Retarded, fake, gay & bait
Kill yourself
>>
>>719061431
Because no man with dignity wants to raise another man's child from their cheating wife.
>>
>>719061594
She probably [spoiler]forgot[/spoiler] to take the pill.
>>
>>719061431
Because that would mean she cheated on him. Which is typically you something you break up with someone over. No one wants to have a hole in their pocket for 18 years knowing they weren't the ones who ripped the jeans.
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>>719061431
lol
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>>719061506
Yes you are going to need to scott peterson that bitch.
>>
>>719061431
Because if it isn't then she doesn't love you and isn't trustworthy. Would you want to be bound to someone like that for 18 years?
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>>719061230
You sir have sprung the trap. You're hers now
>>
>>719061431
Well, if a whore in question is dumb enough to get knocked up by another man and there is even a single doubt in the man's mind that this may be the case, there is absolutely no trust at all in that relationship. It's like schrödinger's cat, the problem exists only if you start thinking about it
>>
Paternity test!
Unless you want to raise someone else kid.
BTW the average price for rasing a child in the US is over 200k now.
You want to spend that money on some kid thats not your's?
>>
>>719061230
>>she's pregnant
>>may not be mine

How can people be so fucking stupid? Even if it isn't yours you deserve all the money wringing she's going to put you through, you inbred retard.
>>
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The average cost of raising a child born in 2013 up until age 18 for a middle-income family in the U.S. is approximately $245,340 (or $304,480, adjusted for projected inflation), according to the latest annual “Cost of Raising A Child” report from the U.S. Department of Agriculture.
>http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2014/08/18/cost-of-raising-a-child_n_5688179.html

Of course, she's going to pay half of that because we equal now.
>>
>>719061989
How is it his fault if she cheated on him?
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>>719061230
Cunt punt that bitch off a cliff.
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>>719061431
Kill yourself whore.just because you have no morals doesn't mean no one does.
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>>719061230
Except responsibility for your whore. you deserve it all . everything you get. You wanna watch her fuck niggas while you pet her hair and then she gets knocked up by one of them rock apes... then break out the czech book cause that little half breed is as much your responsibility as hers. Learn something cuck?
>>
>>719061230
>What do /b/?
Play the nigger and run away.
>>
>>719061230
Don't sign the Birth Certificate until a Paternity proves you're the Father. If she tries to guilt or shame you , tell her the PT is important cuz you guys aren't married and your Trust Fund requires it. Bitches lie everyday about this shit.
>>
Hire a pro.
>>
You don't have to marry her anon. Chances are overwhelming leaning towards it ending in divorce anyways, at which point you'll be right back here where you started. Facing child support payments.

Avoid marriage and skip the heart ache.
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For the love of God, don't marry her just because she got pregnant.
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>>719061230
>accept it
>think up some names
>make plans for the future with the baby
>be all happy and loving with her and the baby
>move to mexico to avoid paying child support
>>
>>719061230
Are there any stairs nearby?
>>
Kill your girlfriend and then yourself. You definitely deserve it and your girlfriend can't be much better if she made it through 3 years with you.
>>
>>719061230
I had this happen to me, best thing you can do.. Stay with her till the baby is born and before you sign the birth certificate get a DNA test. At least you can't knock her up again so creampie away while you can. If it turns out to be yours and you forced a DNA test be prepared for a shit storm if it's not then you have nothing to worry about (walk away).
>>
>>719061230
Tell court she raped you

http://www.independent.co.uk/news/world/europe/man-convicted-rape-condom-sex-switzerland-a7521891.html
>>
>>719061230
If she has to fucking tell you that its yours, it probably isnt.
Get a fucking test and kick her down the stairs
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>>719062782
Can't get a DNA test without the mother's permission. Only a legal guardian can issue a DNA test for a child and until you say you're the father, you're not the legal guardian.
>>
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>>719061230
Thank me later.
>>
I was with a bitch who basically lied about being on the pill and used me as a sperm donor as she felt guilty of having an abortion with her ex boyfriend.

She had the baby sixth months ago and hasn't made contact.

What a fucking whore - it doesn't bother me, I told her I don't want to be a dad so either get rid or she's being a single mother and I'm washing my hands of it.
>>
>>719063193
Not true court order if she states you are the father you can get one also if she wants a cent from you in child support she has to prove it is your baby.
>>
>>719062896
Be a real man. Just take the injustice. Grin and bear it to show us that you're not a pussy.

Only a beta male would whine about this.
>>
>>719063265
Ibuprofen also helps induce a miscarriage.
>>
>>719063265
>#1 Insert a FRESH sprig of parsley as far as possible into the vagina

I lol'd. She'll never know. hahahaha
>>
>>719061431
You wouldent love her if you learn shes incubating another mans spawn.
>>
>>719063265
There was a greentext with even better recipe, guy caused 3-4 miscarriages and convinced the girl she's sterile.

Anyone have this?
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future OP baby

kill yourself you beta cuck
>>
>>719063593
Right one anon, fucking chicks don't understand that sex to a man is like love to a woman.
>>
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I was in a similar situation. I was considering breaking up with her before all this because she was an insufferable cunt.

Anyway I managed to convince her to abort it by berating her into submission with the promise of getting married (she was always bugging me to get married). After the deed I dumped her.

I found out later she cheated on me throughout the entirety of the relationship.

No regrets, get her to kill the babby.
>>
>>719063353
"IDENTIGENE requires a legal guardian to sign for any minor child involved participating in a paternity test. Usually, the signer is someone (father or mother) listed on the child’s birth certificate, but it could also be a grandparent or other caregiver who is the child’s legal guardian."

"This means that a potential father who does not have legal custody of a child must get permission from the mother (or other legal guardian) before we can begin the paternity test. Please keep in mind that legal custody and physical custody are two very different things. A father who has visitation rights or some sort of partial custody may not necessarily also have the right to make legal decisions on behalf of the child."
>http://dnatesting.com/how-to-do-a-paternity-test-without-the-mother-knowing/
>>
Wait a few months. Facial ski apparel. Pick your time. Work the gut for however long it takes.
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>>719063353
If you tell the hospital staff that you're not signing the birth certificate until you get a court order, you will instantly end the relationship by declaring to the entire hospital staff that you think the woman who just gave birth to that baby is a liar and a cheat.

She's be humiliated publicly at at time when her body is flushed with estrogen. Hell hath no fury like a woman scorned.
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>>719064047
IDK what state you are from but in mine, you can demand a DNS test before you sign the birth certificate.
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>>719064397
kek.... I would get a DNS test for sure!
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>>719064343
I know, that's what I said a shit storm either way OP is fucked unless she admits she cheated, or she aborts the kid unless he mans up and cares for a knocked up mudshark.
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>>719064047
If you are not the legal guardian of your child and you get a DNA Test without the mother's permission and discover that the child really isn't yours, the judge will toss out the DNA test and won't even look at it because the evidence was gathered illegally.

I work as a clerk in a courthouse and I've seen this happen many times. It's considered a crime in Canada and France that carries a 6 months prison sentence.
>>
>>719064588
I'm in the USA and we can get a DNA test before the birth certificate is singed, no matter what the mother says.
>>
Anyway OP, you are fucked either way so enjoy what you got till then.. If i were you I'd start tapping her computer and phone find out if she really is cheating you might get your answer before all the bullshit.
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>>719061230
Abort Mission
>>
I go
>>
>>719064343
>>719064506

The hospital staff will put your name on the birth certificate against your will. They ask her who the father is and put the name down she gives them.

If you aren't there when the baby is being born and she names you as the father, in some states you have only 30 days to contest it.

Most men are completely ignorant of this and don't discover how unfair the process is to men until the get a subpoena to appear in court to determine child support. By then, it's too late. The judge won't consider what's in your best interest weighs more than what' in the best interest of the child.

The state doesn't give a fuck about "muh lineage" or "muh DNA". All that matters to the state is the the child has a male financial provider. If you get a DNA test without her permission and try to show it the judge, the judge won't even look at it and will most likely issue a gag order preventing you from telling the child until it's 18.
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>>719061230
Is no one here gonna talk about the fact that the baby might just be his? OP, you need to man the fuck up for one moment in your useless life and accept that you knocked the bitch up. Until the baby is out of her stomach, you won't be able to tell if it's yours or not. So wait it out and be supportive like a real fucking father should be, then, have a dna test done. If she denies your request and acts weird about it, then is the time to take this matter into the hands of the courts.
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>>719061594
"And yes, we fuck without rubbers. She is on the pill"

>Reality Check

You be a FATHER - get use to it.
>>
>>719064699
This isn't true. The hospital only need her signature and they will put down whatever name they give her as the father.

>believing fathers have ANY rights in an American court.
>kek.
>>
if you are unsure...have a DNA test done
if positive - decide if you will be a father or not
if negative then leave

if abortion then probably leave as well
those are you options how is that difficult to figure out what to do
>>
>>719065249
Really have to double up to have any hope of not getting someone preggo
>>
>>719065253
In my state this is 100% true it happened to me 2 times I have 3 kids to 3 different females.
>>
>>719064588
This isn't true. The birth certificate will be signed by her alone.

After she signs it, a man has a very narrow window of opportunity to test it and the mother, the hospital and the state are under no legal obligation to inform the man named as the father that his name was put on the birth certificate.
>>
>>719065509
(You)
>>
>>719065584
Right on, they cannot willing add your name to a birth cert. with out your knowledge and approval.
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>>719061230
if you have a degree, move to asia, teach english (maybe get a better degree over there that will allow you to work in another western country)
if not,good luck, youre her cash-slave for about 18 years, see you in 2035
>>
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>>719061230
I hear South America is nice. Hope you speak spanish.
>>
When I done paying in 7 more years I will have paid out more than 300k USD in child support, I live in a shit hole with a woman that loves me now but my ex's live 10x better than we do I pay out monthly $1200 and some change.
>>
>>719061230
Tell her that I have no plans.
Hell, I don't even plan for myself, I sure as fuck won't start with anybody else.

So by rendering yourself as useless as possible she will very likely leave your ass alone anyways.

Just don't be ashamed of looking like a retard.
You probably are anyways so why would that matter, right?
>>
>>719065893
To add I have a vasectomy now, no bitch will ever peg me for that shit again fucking gold digging whores and they know they can put out a piece of ass and get paid
>>
>>719065676
They can and they do all the fucking time.
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>>719066040
IDK what race you are but this sounds like nigger shit to me.
>>
>>719066040
Proof nigger.

Who can order a birth certificate?

Applicant must have direct and tangible interest in the matter of record and be able to show proof of relationship.

Pursuant to NAC 440.070 section 2 direct and tangible interest is defined as:

As used in NRS 440.650, a “direct and tangible interest” means a:
Direct relationship by blood or marriage to the person named on the certificate;
Legal relationship to the person named on the certificate; or
Requirement imposed by law or otherwise to facilitate legal process.
>>
>>719066268
>equirement imposed by law or otherwise to facilitate legal process.
read it nigger and admit you are wrong.
>>
>>719061230
got my korean gf knocked up after 3 years. turned out great and knocked her up 2 more times. 12 years now and no regrets.
>>
The best way to establish the father’s paternity is by naming him on the baby’s birth certificate. Under U.S. Department of Health and Human Services regulations, all states must offer unwed parents an opportunity to establish paternity by voluntarily signing an acknowledgment of paternity, either at the hospital or at a later time. In many states, as a result of political pressure to reduce the number of mothers on welfare by ensuring that there is someone else with an obligation to support the child, hospital personnel will make every effort to get the father to sign the acknowledgment.
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>>719066597
>father to sign the acknowledgment
Where you at nigger I told you admit you were wrong and i will stop.
>>
>>719065893
Is your child support amount based on 11 year old paycheck situation? Did she remarry a rich guy?
>>
>>719061230
Get out... Call her back when the kid is born, do the test is it even yours...

???

Profit!
>>
>>719066755
She was a neet, and I make a lot of money she takes me back every time I get a raise.
>>
>>719061230
If you have doubt it's to late to think about go away
Run my nigga be free it's 2k17 !
>>
OP is fucked any way the best he can do if there is any doubt that it is not his, walk away and don't look back till you get a court order for a DNA test. I did that with my 2nd child and it work out way better than the 1st time by refusing to do shit and stay with her.
>>
Don’t Acknowledge Paternity if You’re Not the Father

Although signing to acknowledge paternity is a very good idea if you are the father of the child, if you’re not the father, or if you are not sure, don’t sign on the dotted line. If you sign a paternity statement, you’ll be liable for child support and even for reimbursing the state for welfare payments made to the mother, until you can prove that you are not actually the child’s father.
>>
>>719066268
>>719066369
Educate yourself
http://www.legalmatch.com/law-library/article/fathers-rights---effect-of-name-on-birth-certificate.html
>>
if it isn't yours then you can probably use that fact to talk her into a threesome with someone.
>>
>>719068053
>In most states, if a person is named as the father on a child’s birth certificate, he is the legal father for all purposes.
>in most states
>NOT IN MY STATE NIGGER
>>
>>719068245
stop trying to teach niggers anything you will never win they are sd dense as a rock.
>>
Take it like a man and stay to your girl
>>
If a girl has giving you no reason to not trust her and you dont trust her, shes better off with out you.
You are the real piece of shit OP. Coming to a fourm to question it with a bunch of virgins? I bet she would leave you for that if she actually knew the kind of person you are.
A real piece of shit
>>
>>719068053
https://www.expertlaw.com/forums/showthread.php?t=58589
>Wrong
>>
The only way you an find out whether or not you are actually the father of the child is to takes steps that will humiliate her.

You basically have to publicly declare that you think she might possibly be a degenerate slut. If it turns out to be your baby, she'll spend the next 18 years using that baby to make your life a living hell to get you back for humiliating her.

Welcome to the Men's Rights movement.
>>
>>719068053
If a mother is not married, she cannot list any father on a BC unless the father is present to sign an acknowledgement of paternity.
>Any US state OP is not married.
>>
Kill her for Allah
>>
>>719061230

Just say you don't trust your own judgement. You can get a paternity test without her ever knowing.
>>
>>719068471
>implying California is representative of most states.
>>
>>719061230
ABORT MISSION ABORT MISSION

PULL UP
>>
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>>719061230
its yours bro. get over it. pluck a hair out and pay the 100 bucks to check after its born if you really want to be a douche about it. but it's yours.
>>
>>719068496
A real man is smart enough to not knock some girl up then complain about what happens when you do. You gambled and chose the wrong girl Thats it. Mens movement. We dont need that pussy shit, were men
>>
>>719068532
Yes she can. It happens all the fucking time.

I'm a lawyer.
>>
>>719068652
>lawyer
>4chan user
pick one lying fucking nigger, you know how i know you are a nigger.. They lie even when they are wrong.
>>
>>719068645
>A real man

Tits or get the fuck out.
>>
>>719068745
I dindo nothings
>>
>>719068602
In California, the only legal way to add the father's name to the birth certificate (if they are not married) is for the father and mother to sign an Acknowledgement of Paternity and Declaration of Paternity. The Declaration of Paternity also is a request to amend the birth certificate.
>filthy nigger
>>
Run nigga it's a long road full of regrets and mental agony.run I tell you.dont look back
>>
>>719068745

>I have 3 kids to 3 different females >>719065509
>calling someone else a nigger
>>
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>>719064488

yeah, just type Ipconfig into commant line
>>
Come to 4chan to give advice doesn't know how to use google
>>719068652
>>
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>>719061230
If she says she's keeping it, she either really wants a child or wants you to marry her.

Get paternity test NOW. Involves mothers's blood (it has the child's DNA in it too) and a DNA sample from you.

If it is not your, winrar.

In all likelihood its yours OP.
Start adjusting your life to either:
A. marry her and raise the child together (but only if you both see the marriage being worth it)
B. pay child support and move on with your life.
>>
>>719069015
Always pick B anons always. Make her work to get it to just don't offer that shit up.
>>
>>719061230
Tell her you have thought it over and you want to marry her and start a family. While she and her bitch ass mother are planning the wedding, you read up on how to establish a fake identity. The day of the wedding, you disappear.
>>
Be a proud fater. Congrats :-)
>>
>>719061594
You can take a paternity test while she's pregnant dumbass. Do that before anything else. And then dump her and pay child support.
>>
>>719061431

>Implying any self respecting man could be with a cheating whore
>>
>>719068918
No, difference between me and a nigger like you is I'm a father to all my children and I'm a major role in their life.
>>
>>719061594
She forgot to take the pill and you're paying the price for her stupidity

top
fucking
kek

This is why I always wear a condom
>>
>>719068532
>>719068745
>>719069004
>>719069146
>>719069269
>http://singleparents.about.com/od/custodyoptions/a/name-on-birth-certificate.htm

"For single moms, it can be hard to decide whether to list the father's name on your baby's birth certificate. For married parents, the husband is automatically assumed to be the father of the child. However, unwed mothers are asked in the hospital to provide the name of the birth father as the birth certificate paperwork is being completed. Let's explore the factors you should consider before listing the father's name on your baby's birth certificate:"

Turns out he's right. Wow.
>>
>>719069015
Child support > raising a kid
all fucking day
Just because she wants to keep it doesn't mean you have to stick with her, you have a choice to make as well.
>>
>>719068745
4chan is a top 500 website

A ton of different people use it
>>
>>719065249
This.

Even if she was cheating and fucking another guy without a condom. There's a 50-50 chance it can be either of yours.

Also, she probably stopped taking her birth control to trap you. Should have nade her get the implant.
>>
>>719069471
Stop samfaging nigger, since when is it legal to sign any other persons name.. you sir are a jackass and proof from a fucking 3rd rate website.. Big lawyer you are!
>>
>>719069269
>caring about random people
lol
just because they came from your balls doesn't mean jack shit
>>
>>719069632
samewebsite 3 lines down, fucking tard

Documents Required to List the Father on a Child's Birth Certificate

Hospitals generally require the following information to add a father to the child's birth certificate:

Acknowledgment of Paternity (AOP) form signed by both the father and mother
The signing of the AOP must also be witnessed and signed by two uninterested parties
>>
>>719069471

Fucking trying to troll a Alpha male it will never happen jack off, take your fake lawyer shit outta here and go outside faggot.
>>
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>>719061992
> she's going to pay half of that because we equal now
>>
Can some femanon get a baby real quick and mark Donald Trump as the dad? Then kill Trump and inherit half his assets.

Would rate 8/10 on troll scale
>>
>>719061230
It's hard to say without knowing the dynamic of your relationship, whether your girl would cheat or "stop" the pill on "accident" or whatever.

Sometimes this shit just happens.

I'd be more likely to say she trapped you if you weren't together for 3 years (assuming happily).

Prime example:

Close friend of mine started dating a new girl. She left her boyfriend for him (already a red flag). One of those slightly overweight "nerdy" girls. Suddenly 6 months into it she's knocked up. He claims she took the pill everyday, but his ass worked 9-5 while she sat at home. There's no way he would know. Knowing her personality I think she trapped him.

Of course, she started badgering him about getting married since she was pregnant. He held his own for about 8 months after their kid was born, but finally caved and got married to her. Guess what? she got knocked up again and #2 is on the way.
>>
>>719070033
And this is the fucking exact reason why you can't just name any man the fucking father without proof.
>>
>>719070123
That poor bastard them kids are probably yours!
>>
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>>719061230
flee the state
>>
>>719070404
She's cute, 10/10!
>>
>>719070168
You're convinced that you're right because otherwise it wouldn't make sense.

The whole point is that it doesnt make sense: it really works like that in some states.
>>
>>719061230
in a lot of states you can have a paternity test done without her knowledge
just make sure you do that before you touch the baby when it comes out.
>>
File: 1483208318117.jpg (44KB, 720x558px)
1483208318117.jpg
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>>719061230
Not even a original picture. Post real evidence or you are fag
>>
>>719062651
kek
>>
>>719070622
Again, for the last time you might think your jubilee of niggory works here but it doesn't niggers aren't welcome here and you know you are wrong. A female can't just name any man the father with out his concent. Shit doesn't work that way now shut the hell up nignog.
>>
>>719070344
Ain't mine anon. He's a good friend (or was, since he has no life outside his wife/kids now) but I wouldn't have touched her with a ten foot pole. The overweight chicks aren't my bag, and neither are the attention seekers.
>>
>>719071098
I can just see your poor friend, wife in had with his balls. Poor fucker, I feel for him.
>>
>>719071246
>hand*
>>
>>719071246
It is sad. I feel really bad for him, but then again he knew what he was getting into. This wasn't a case of naivety on his part. He had definitely been around the block. Plenty of long term girlfriends. Plenty of one nighters/FWB. I'd feel much worse if this was one of those saps you see that get roped into this shit on their first go with a girl .
>>
>>719071740
FWB? Yea, sounds like he did it to himself.
>>
>>719061230
She bought that positive result on craigslist to try to trap you and drain you from your resources!!!
>>
File: darkarchon.png (4KB, 120x120px)
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>>719061431
yeah this
do it like animals
just kill the junglings because you cant know if they are your offspring
or some other mans, so the only way would be to kill them and then insta mate with the mother to be sure about it
>>
>>719061230
Plans include a trip to mexico for the next 20 years
>>
>>719065409
I hope you don't mean double condoms. That makes em' way more likely to break.
>>
>>719061431
Such bait, much retard
>>
>>719068775
Wanna see a pic of my 8 inch dick?
>>
>>719069141
This, you scared little faggot. My sons are the light of my life. I was like you once OP: distrustful, terrified, and looking for any reason to run. It's gonna be a couple before you truly appreciate the benefits of fatherhood. But when you do. You'll never look back. I'd trade everyday from this one to my last for my sons...and I will. Shout out to muh boys: I love you Clark and Charlie!
>>
>>719061230
Just ask for a DNA test when it's born. It's against the law for her to deny it and if A) she loves you and B) she's honest she'll have no reason to say no to it.

It's saved at least 2 of my friends from having to raise someone else's fuckup kid with fat chicks so whats there to lose?
>>
>>719073063
It's what I've been trying to say to him for the past 2 hours. If you love her deal with the kid, if you really think it's not yours say something and man the fuck up.
>>
>>719073020
You chose some gay ass fucking names anon. You should be ashamed of yourself
>>
>>719073020
Gayest names I've ever heard lol

Did you want them to be gay?
>>
>>719073282
I did name them. The gay part is I named them after fucking superheroes.
inb4 muh autism.
>>
File: free abortion.png (273KB, 500x750px) Image search: [Google]
free abortion.png
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>>719061230
push her down the stairs or... give me a sec to find that vitamin c recipe I had, pic related
>>
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>>719061431
>>
>>719061230

>Now she wants to know what my plans are. What do /b/?

DO NOT GET MARRIED!

DO NOT GET MARRIED!

It is far better to hold off and wait to see if it comes out black then you get off free then it is to get married and have it come out black then loose half your shit.
>>
>>719061931
So she both preggers and not preggers at same time! Is the baby the cat in this scenario? Or perhaps the baby is both his and some next dudes simultaneously. Either way it's a problem. So ya just don't think about it, that'll solve all that ish.>>719061931
>>
>>719061431
no man would raise another mans child. its very basic biology. its hard wired into us just like not talking about feelings. and it would really really matter if a woman did this.
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