Hey, /b/. Former aethiestfag here. Been going to a youth group

You don't necessarily have to believe that he exists at first. Look at the things he and Jesus say in the bible and try to relate to how current events, and how the wisdom in there really does reflect so well into the real life world.

>>713655434
I see. Any examples?

>>713655804
Ever heard of Common Filth? He's a man that centers those kinds of examples on his channel.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nTHbY9mVYAM

Pretty good stuff to watch, including his podcasts.

>>713654820
So you don't have evidence for god, but you decided to believe anyway and look for evidence to back up what you've already decided.

If you can admit that's what you are doing, why cant you just go on and believe based on faith or wishful thinking or whatever, and don't require evidence.

>>713656669
Not saying im believing quite yet, just that i would like to.

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dubs means god exists, check em

>>713654820
Have faith my son, finding proof is the devil errand

>>713654820
Think about it like this, if you believe in god and there happens to be no god, then you go to the same place as an atheist. However, if you believe in god and he is real, you go to heaven.

>>713654820
There ain't none unless you set your standards pathetically low

>>713657039
I've thought about that a few times before, it definitely is an encouragement.

>>713657039
K, so which of the thousands of God's should we pick on a whim?

>>713656892
if you are honestly pursuing truth, you already have your best provisional answer: there is insufficient evidence to justify the belief in god.
Sure, re-examine your conclusions in the face of new evidence. But in the meantime, youre an atheist.

But if you can be dishonest to yourself, you can just believe any evidence even if its bad.

Or let go of the need for evidence. But be honest enough to admit you believe despite the lack of evidence (as Jesus suggested is appropriate when he was talking to Thomas after the resurrection)

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>>713656948
Dubs mean God doesn't exist, check em

>>713654820
Realized the point of religion, can be very useful. Replace the concept of "God" With your self and it is pretty good. Minus all the faggy "I LUB U JEEBUS/AYLA PRAISE PRAIZZZEE!" and the cancerous music. Im just trying to gain more wisdom not deepthroat some fagg with "Praise".

>>713657039
>>713657321
That's a real important question. Gods are jealous creatures (often to an infantile extent). So better to disbelieve then to pick the wrong god.

>>713657321
Christianity. Christians are some of the nicest people I have ever met, regardless of denomination.

>>713657476
Might take this advice and put faith in without proof. And as the guy above said, if there is a god, I go to heaven. Not really a loss anywhere.

>>713657746
How wonderfully arbitrary. The truth very well could be that god isn't a nice guy after all. It could be the case that he is evil.

Picking a god based off its followers is fucking stupid

>>713657758
that's called pascals wager and its not a good bet. Cause if you pick the wrong god your are worse off than if you don't pick. Its bad evidence.

Better to be honest and say you believe without evidence. You can even feel that god led you to believe without evidence.

>>713654820
Why would you want to take a step backward like that?

>>713657746
Also, christians are hardly the nicest ones out there. Half of them get pissed off at you if you dare to be born gay

>>713657321
Jehovah. Son of bitch was a wicked.

you dont ever need to find real proof any deity exists

just have something bad happen to you, and find something that happens afterward as a way of explaining/overcoming it, attributing it to whatever deity, not listening to anyone else tell you how irrational it is

then stick your face up a religious book's ass and bam you're now religious anon

>>713658148
Whats the advantage of atheism?

There not being proof for God's existence is why most people are atheists.

If you want evidence, the closest you can get are the pieces of the cross on which Jesus was crucified. Jesus MOST LIKELY existed and was crucified - but he was also probably a mental patient by today's standards.

Just follow the truth, speak the truth. Forget about the straw-god in the sky. God is only your highest value. it's what is beyond your comprehension, so you will not find a 'proof' of 'his' 'existence'. Anyway I never found a proof that god exists. I think that it's foolish to think of god as something, like a mysterious hidden bigfoot or higgs-boson. Forget about a demonstration or a proof, this is just rationalizations.

>>713657746
If hanging around fellow believers who are nice is what you're going for, become a Sikh. Those guys are great.

>>713658166
From my experience, the rank and file Mormons are really really nice, decent, helpful people. (But the actually church officials are creepy and spend a lot of time spying on the rank and file. And the history of the church is full of ugliness and lies.)

>>713658408
You're being honest

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>>713658408
It's grounded in truth. Also comes with a cool hat.

>>713654820
You either got to accept to accept the fact that the only true reason youre believing (again) is because it makes you feel good/accepted/relieved, or you've got to deny a quitte some facts about the natural world and do a lot of mental gymnastics.

>>713658462
They're nice when you ignore how hyper controlling their church is. They're still trying to get alcohol banned in that one state they own

>>713658548
Yea, how is atheism superior?

>>713658408
Accept the atheist position because you are following the evidence to the best, most honest conclusion. Don't pick it cause it feels good or whatever.

Its not a broad rages psychology/theology/lifestyle/etc package.

Its just a disbelief in the existence of a god. you need to fill in the other stuff from other sources.

>>713654820
Go with Buddhism. It doesn't force the existence of a god down your throat (literally, all the belief states is that there's some higher power, since the stories from its founding refer to the Hindu deities more as internal aspects of the Buddha than anything else), and can, depending on the sect of Buddhism, be taken more as a set of guidelines in life than anything else. It's what I've followed since I decided that I needed something to put some faith into.

>>713658858
By being an atheist, you are being honest. Religion is a bunch of bull shit

>>713659021
that's horse shit

as someone who married into a buddhist family (Chinese) the family tried everything they could do to push their religious shit on our kids, until I, as a whitey, told them to piss off.. then moved us away from her family

>>713659091
Could be. But theres also the off-chance that something more powerful is out there.

>>713659021
Where do you go for this that isn't full of special snowflake faggots? I think Buddhism is pretty based and would not mind learning a bit and discussing it but most western white Buddhists are annoying.

>>713659091
I wouldn't say honest, I'd say like religion you're coming to a conclusion without any proof

>>713659338
hence why agnosticism is best

>>713659263
and the time to believe that is after it has been demonstrated, not before. Believing it beforehand is dishonest and absurd

>>713657039
This is called Pascal's Wager.

The reality is there are ~4000 religions that have existed on this planet, and only one of them can be right (including atheism, the null hypothesis). Additionally, as no evidence for a god(s) exist, it is equally likely that a undiscovered religion is the true religion. This places your odds of selecting the correct religion quite low.

The bottom line is this: if a deity exists, the fact it has failed to personally contact you and inform you of the correct methodology to follow it is damning evidence against their existence, because they
a) don't care about you,
b) aren't powerful enough to do it, and
c) aren't smart enough to do it.

>>713659338
Coming to a conclusion without proof is dishonest

>>713654820
I think proof goes counter to the point of religion. Once you're aware and study it a bit to understand, either you feel it, or don't.

>>713659402
Not necessarily. If it's real and you wait until its been demonstrated, it could be too late to put faith into it.

>>713654820
Take a Greyhound around America

>>713659467
>failed to personally contact you

this is where talking to a religious person is pointless

a lot of them do believe a representative of their religion whether it be some figure, messiah, or deity itself, has contacted them, and they attribute whatever happened to it.. there's no arguing with people who will go for this croc of shit

>>713659249
Again, depends on the sect of Buddhism. Also, anecdotal statements aren't fully representative of anything. It all depends on the people; most are like your average, moderately faithful Christian family, some follow it more for the Eightfold Path than anything else, some actually believe in various specific deities. You can use your anecdotes all you want, it doesn't change fact.

>>713654820
>Youth group
>Youth
>Get off /b/ summerfag

>>713659338
no, you are wrong.

Atheism is not another claim about god, its just the disbelief in the claims that a god exists.

Its like the "none of the above" answer to a multiple choice question. You don't need to prove that answer. You just need to not believe the other answers.

And if there is no evidence for the other answers, then the default is "none of the above"

>>713659513
>either you feel it, or don't
This is part of the problem with religion. Your view of the truth should be formed by facts, not feelings.

>>713659756
Yikes. Just trying to have a conversation, don't see how it affects you.

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>>713659689
>calls other people's statements anecdotal
>provides conjecture even more worthless than anecdotal evidence

nice1 /b/ro

>>713659633
If it's real a d not demonstrated, it doesn't matter. It still is stupid to believe it.

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>>713654820
See the problem with that is your trying to use sound logic and reason to find god, what you really need to do is shut your eyes, cover your ears and refuse to accept anything that sounds reasonable

Don't for me leaving was the best thing I could do it meant living for me and only me you get one shot at life I'm no gambler but heaven seems like the worst odds for gambling your life on plus if you don't expect anything you can't be disappointed and if something does happen shit thats just a bonus

This 'psychological' interest of the present time shows that man expects something from psychic life which he has not received from the outer world: something which our religions, doubtless, ought to contain, but no longer do contain -at least for the modern man. the various forms of religion no longer appear to the modern man to come from within - to be expressions of his own psychic lif; for him they are to be classed with the things of the outer world.

>>713659338
It's being intellectually honest

>>713660249
pretty much

in some ways this defines atheism too, so many of them have made up their mind that there's no god, creator, or anything

we have nothing to base this on other than the fact that human made religions are obviously made up.. but just because human made religions are clearly bullshit doesn't answer the question of a creator

so any answer that isn't "I don't know" or doesn't leave open the possibility is a religious person, even if it's a so-called atheist

>>713659323
Western Buddhists who really try to push their beliefs and broadcast it everywhere are every bit as bad as you've seen. Honestly, just look into the faith yourself, and if it seems good to you, practice it by yourself, and avoid the topic unless it becomes relevant. You don't want to be connected to those fuckers, I promise you, since most of the time they have a stupidly loose grasp of their religion and only use it to be special. It's not some huge thing, where you really need a place of worship and a social circlejerk to be with, it's simply a set of beliefs.

>>713660542
a lot of libtards believe this too when they disregard everyone's rights for feelings

clearly there are much different standards for what "intellectual" is

>>713660461
>if you don't expect anything you can't be disappointed
but what if you end up in hell?

>>713654820
Weve failed.

>>713659382
Agnosticism isn't a religion, dumbass. It's a ranking on a continuum of certainty in your belief. It you're agnostic, it means you're simply uncertain in you're belief, whatever that belief may be.

>>713660584
indeed.. people who are fed up of the shit around them also tend to glorify shit elsewhere they have no experience with.. as someone who has been around that religion I know it's every bit as retarded as Christianity and Islam

>>713660929
>It you're agnostic, it means you're simply too much of a faggot to form an opinion
FTFY

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>>713660929
it's a belief, that you don't know

gnosticism is what you described

dumbass

>>713660670
man if that happens be an optimist don't make it a bad thing celebrate it might as well you know what else are you gonna do

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Hail the real Jesus!

>>713660642
by saying "intellectually honest" I mean it is impossible to not believe in say "evolution" for example if you legitimately understand it, this even applies to god, generally if you take the time to read a holy book and are "intellectually honest" it is something you can't believe.

>>713661074
It would be hard to celebrate if you're in pain for eternity.

>>713654820
something had to cause the big bang Check and mate f

>>713660670
Pascals wager is bullshit.

>>713660009
What are you referring to, the fact that I didn't go into depth with detailed descriptions on the beliefs of Zen Buddhists, Esoteric Buddhists, and various other schools? There's a shitton of them out there. Fuck off.

>>713661315
some people are into that sort of shit man they would love it

>>713661640
Then it wouldn't be pain, and "god" has failed yet again

>>713661038
No, Gnosticism was a belief system formed around the second century which shuns the material world, and solely embraces the spiritual world. It largely died out after the Catholic Church condemned it as heretical, due to it's primarily Christian definition in which the material world is all the work of Satan, while the Spiritual world is the realm of God, with people being a mix of that Satanic and Godly influence in their existence. Learn your fucking religious history, mate.

>>713661751
well if you consider "god" allows diseases, war, and murders tell me were he is I've never seen him or anything I stopped believing in that nonsense a long time ago

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Don't waste your time

>>713661968
nice try, an extinct religion is not what is defined as gnosticism today

wikipedia and your pretend knowledge failed you terribly

>>713662035
Nigger, I never said he existed I was ridiculing how stupid the idea of believing is

>>713662281
woah nigger calm down then we are both doing the same thing

>>713662059
So what you're saying is, is that because there are many beliefs, by default they're all wrong? Also, I like how at least one of those isn't considered a god, even by its followers.

>>713662570
No, not necessarily, he's saying that it's statically unlikely your god is right because there are so many and the evidence for them is the same 0

>>713662570
If everyone on earth believed the same fairy tale it would be more believable. If your chosen belief is the right one and u "know" it is, then why doesn't everyone know the "right" religion?

>>713662570
And t's obviously making fun of the childish beliefs, I doubt whoever made it gives a fuck if one of them is a follower or not

>>713663079
sorry "god"

>>713662834
Exactly. Zero proof for any of them.

>>713662199
Also a nice try, but that's not what it's defined as. Agnosticism is defined as a lack of certainty in belief, primarily used in the context of agnostic atheism (belief, but not certainty, in the lack of a deity). However, agnosticism simply means you don't have absolute certainty in your faith, so agnostic Christianity is just as much a thing. I'm arguing off of the dictionary definition that I know of agnosticism, and the fact that literally nothing defines Gnosticism as a certainty of belief, other that people who don't know that it refers to a dead religion. I'll accept that it probably can be (incorrectly) used in the context you described, but in reality the word simply refers to a follower of Gnosticism. If you can find me one credible source telling me otherwise, I'll gladly take a look at it and concede that you're right. Otherwise, I'm holding to my own position.

>>713663404
Wtf?

>>713656948
Kek is displeased with your attempt

>>713657602
Kek doesn't like you either

>>713658166
>born gay
This is some bullshit, and you know it. Homosexuality doesn't make any kind of moral or logical sense (saying "It happens in nature!" Is a fallacy btw, so don't be that fag).
>When neither evolution nor biblical values support you
And the worst part is, what you're saying isn't even true. A vast, VAST, majority of Christians would silently let you commit the sin.

If there is a god, only us atheists will most likely be the ones going to heaven. This was all a test to see if we would believe stupid shit without evidence

>>713663064
>>713663079
That seems just as childish, to condemn every possible belief as false, just because there's a fuckton of them.
>>713662834
That seems like a much more optimistic interpretation, but wasn't really the message I was getting. Still, I like the idea.

>>713663678
It's no sin being gay. But it is or seems like a sin to discriminate against gay people. That's what good Christians do tho I guess is discriminate

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>>713654820

>i want to be a christfag to fit in so i want help pretending to believe things i don't.

>>713663678
People are born gay dipshit. And yes, evolution does support it. And I don't give a shit if the bible supports it. Fuck the bible.

As for the all natural fallacy, I never said that it was OK because it was natural dipshit. I only said it wasn't a choice

As for the christians, bullshit. The majority of them will think there is something deeply wrong with you just because if something you can't control.

>>713663678
Actually some evolutionary biologists/psychologists think that it's a trait that started from people who were in charge of their kings harems but weren't allowed to fuck, also there are many animals that have homosexual tendencies, like elephants and giraffes.

>>713663482
Formal logic cuts out the bullshit and memes and the 100k words of nonsense itt, anon.

>>713663678
>this is the reason people don't like you, you fucking nigger

When you can stare at a naked man, choose to stay soft after staring for a minute, then magically choose to get a raging hard on from it, let me know. If you can't do that, then it's not a choice.

Dubs means Judaism is the one true religion.

>>713663827
So u admit religion is childish?

>>713663827
Simply provide evidence

>>713654820
go to /x/

>>713664048
If you say so.

>>713664195
ditto

>>713657476
Essencially, believe it when you see it.

>>713663678

that's not what natural fallacy is dipshit.

>>713658616
>cool
Please be ironic or bait

>>713663827
This isn't an argument on if the beliefs are false or not, but you realize the religion is the main source of hate in the world

Hey OP, I can only recommend to keep going, and to ask questions. Contrary to all the mockery you may hear, the belief in the Lord is both spiritually and intellectually fulfilling. Apart from reading the bible presumably, I would recommend in some Christian literature. I'm currently reading God's Not Dead. God bless you anon.

>>713664471
Yes. Religion causes more problems than it solves.

Fake it until you make it. I found the argument from morality to be helpful in this place, we know what's good and what feels right, even if these things aren't materially advantageous. Why do you get a pit in your stomach when you steal or kill someone? Who put that there? Granted, i am an idiot, a faggot, and don't think much about religion anymore.

you wont become religious again, do you know why?

>but having trouble finding proof of God's existence

This is what made you atheist in the first place and you know that faith is not evidence.

You can fool yourself and the others around you by thinking you are religious/believe a God exist - but deep inside you know that there's no proof of that and you are only fooling youself because of the social aspect of a youth group.

>>713664553
Whatever makes u feel better

>>713664553
>intellectually fulfilling

get the fuck out of there, you're holy book says the earth is flat, the stars are in a filament of water surrounding the earth, and that the earth is 6000 years old.

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for one gains by losing
and loses by gaining

>>713654820
Dmt

>>713664553
>intellectually fulfilling
>intellectually fulfilling
>intellectually fulfilling
THE MOST BS IV'E EVER HEARD

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You won't find any
Religion is faith based

>>713664799
The Bible supports the globe. I'm almost certain you're making up that about stars, and it never explicitly states the age of the earth.
>>713664901
>>713664763
Good arguments.

>>713664799
Yeah and written by uneducated sheep herders!! Hahahahaha

>>713664553
>intellectually fulfilling
Two humans bred the entire human population, and that women came from a rib, also talking snakes.

You can't choose to believe something.

>>713665002
Good argument. Is that scarcasm? U can't argue with u religious fools

>>713654820
Read " I Don't Have Enough Faith to be an Atheist" by Dr. Norman L. Geisler and Dr. Frank Turek. They use science, logic, reason, and philosophy to prove the existence of God. If you order it off their website you can get it for dirt cheap.

>>713665246
uhm try again sweetie

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>>713665002
If you add up ages of the people in the order the bible says you roughly get 6000 years old,

there are multiple passages saying the earth cannot move, it is firm and that angels have stood in "the four corners of the earth

At most the bible supports a disk shape not globe.

>>713665388
Logic and reason? Hahahahahaha

>>713665626
>>713654820
Read "God: The Failed Hypothesis" Book by Victor J. Stenger

>>713665865
>>713665388

>>713665002
assuming your christian, how about you read your own fucking holy book

>>713665371
Yes that is sarcasm. Unless you learned that mockery is an argument in whatever school you went to. Judging by your spelling, I would assume it was.
>>713665154
>supernatural things aren't possible for a supernatural being
Yes. That is how God created woman. If you studied demons / Satan and what he does, you would know he possessed the snake to deceive the woman.
>implying Adam and eve were the only humans God created
>>713665540
>four corners of the world
In perspective to the middle east, there are four corners to the continent. Common sense dictates those are the same corners it talks about.
>implying man was there since the earth was created

>>713665865
Looks like something I could get on board with. Thanks!

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OP have you ever considered Satan?

>>713666320
Lol my spelling and your beliefs!

>>713666655
Can't say i have, anon.

>>713654820
Yeah, don't look for spiritual guidance on fucking /b/

>>713666908
I was trying for the get, but as you can see, I was off by 11.

The Satanic Temple is pretty based though, no shit. Bunch of atheist trolls.

>>713666320
Please provide evidence of women being created from mans rib, despite the mountains of evidence that contradicts this.

Exactly, it was written by middle eastern men who had no understating of how the world actually is.

And if god is "all knowing" then why did he decide to do everything in the middle east where most everyone at that time was un-educated and illiterate, why not china where they could actually read and study evidence.

>>713666320
You are actually retarded

>>713666320
Also please explain the filament of water around the earth with the stars inside, that's not just something you can brush over

>>713666937
I dunno, some of the people here seem pretty chill.

>>713654820
هذا ما نطق به لسان الفطرة عند الأعرابي عندما سُئل عن دليل وجود الله ؟ فقال: البعرة تدل على البعير .. والأثر يدل على المسير .. فسماء ذات أبراج .. وأرض ذات فجاج .. ألا تدل على العليم الخبير ..

>>713657321
The one you feel the most convicted to worship

It's weird that there's a bunch of wrong stuff in the bible about how things work, when god has infinite wisom

>>713658014
But as most say if there really isn't a god then he's not picking a god, he's pivking a religion, in which case picking because of the followers is a pretty understandable reason

>>713654820
sup anon. I was in the same spot as you before. I really wanted to believe in that "fairy tale happy ending".

I kept asking God to MAKE me believe. Everyday or every other day I would BEG for him to PROVE to ME that it was all real.

tl;dr my wish came true. The only way I can explain it to you is that he basically showed up in front of my face and showed me the cross.......

It's real anon. I'd bet my life on it

>>713658166
The irony in what you just wrote, do you see it?

Even if the Christian god is real I wouldn't worship him, hes an evil character whom supports rape, genocide, misogyny, slavery, child sacrifice, etc.

There is none. No evidence either.

>>713659467
What if you constantly ask for it to prove it to your and it happens?

>>713661316
It caused itself

I've always personally thought that Jesus was a real person, but all of the miracle stuff wasn't true, and the Bible is more like a set of guidelines to make yourself a better person, not a literal document that needs to command your life

>>713667774
That's pretty amazing. Thanks anon.

>>713663678
>(saying "It happens in nature!" Is a fallacy btw
Oh really?

Which fallacy is that?

>>713664553
Hilarious, given the only way to spread religion is to be as intellectually stifling as possible.

>>713668302
The "I'm a retard and understand nothing of what i'm talking about fallacy"

>>713668180
I've only told a few people that story. It isn't word for word but it happened. It really feels crazy when in your mind you feel like you have proof but can't show it to anybody...

>>713666320
Man has been around a lot longer than 6000 years.

>>713667774
You're making up BS.

>>713668437
you can't prove something that's not true

>>713659785
Like a test, it could just be you didn't study enough and frankly don't know the answer, you just believe your right, because you just don't know, doesn't make you wrong, but don't think you've got a 100% chance of being right

>being a creationist in 2016

>>713668508
My face literally tightened together because I wished you believed me

>>713668302
Has this reddit-tier logical fallacy meme taken such strong hold here that people no longer know what the actual word fallacy means?

>>713659850
Funny you think absence of evidence is evidence of absence, tell that to the bomb the police didnt find when the searched my property

There is nothing to theism other than blind faith. There's no knowledge or proof involved, they just believe "because". They'll never actually know for sure they're right either.

>>713668669
What is there to believe?

>>713668698
I know what a fallacy is. I asked him to elaborate on what kind of fallacy it supposedly is and why.

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OFFICIAL Religion Server!
https://discord.gg/4xZkS8p

RAIIIDDDDDDD???

>>713668707
Not necessarily

>>713654820
Believe whatever you want to believe, but don't lie to yourself, there is no proof.

>>713668768
The fairy tale happy ending man! just keep asking for it bro it HAPPENED to ME! I can't say how long it will take for you man but it HAPPENED

>>713668707
I don't think religion gets to have some special "benefit of the doubt" where we just assume it's true despite zero evidence for it.

>>713668980
And what's this fairy tale ending?

>>713668728
this is why I never stopped being agnostic and couldn't commit to any religion, it's the lack of knowing for certain

God will not let you have proof of God's existence. God will also not let you have proof of the absence of God's existence.

Therefore Proof of God

>>713669041
You live happily ever after in heaven. It sound so obscure I know but it's true. If you don't have faith that's its true ASK for FAITH.

It sounds so corny I know but it's what I did and it worked. So now whenever I see the subject brought up it's like rescueing people from a burning building....

>>713669258
That is idiotic logic

>>713654820
You'll never find proof for the existence of god. You'll only believe in god if you want to, logic will never lead you there.

>>713669287
how do you know you live in heaven? you haven't died yet

why not worship / respect nature instead?
i dont mean just on a hippy spiritual love sense but in an actual scientific sense too.

at least you can prove nature exists right?

There is no proof or evidence.

>>713669451
Yeah man I know what you mean. But after that moment I take everything said in the bible either literally or figuratively. But it's all true