>>704578769 >>704578106 I think mentioning dictatorships would be a pretty good way to flip it onto it's head and that's an arguement people keep bringing up is if it can work in a small town / villiage why not a country one day.
>>704575102 >red scum You've already lost by going into this biased as fuck. Predetermined mindsets do not belong in rational debate, and it's literally impossible to "win" if you won't accept the possibility of "losing". Case in point the Nye/Ham debate when asked "what would make you change your mind?" And Nye said "evidence" while Ham said "nothing"
Even though helping is against my better judgement >>704578769 is a good place to start. I've always related communism to a beautiful glass sculpture there a lot of potential and it can be wonderful.....till some lazy dumbfuck wants to rest against it and breaks it.
>>704575102 Humans are too corruptible for the amount of power associated with leading a communist society. Communism is a good idea but it only would work if every single person in the society is on the same page about everything. That's why it works in small farming villages and shit where they're just a homogenous bunch of peasants. But in today's world, with freedom and individuality valued so highly, true communism couldn't work.
>>704579485 Wont deny I'm biased, I like Russian language, I like chinese language I just hate the concept of communism - so far my main paragraph has been about how as long as humans have a drive to better for themselves and not for the country it wont work.
>>704575102 It ends up being a feudal system. The government still has to make the plans for all the big stuff like roads, the army and sanitation. So they justify taking more money and controlling everything. The government becomes all powerful and people actually don't end up owning or running anything, it's all at the disposal of the top 1 percent that would never give up their power.
Marxist economic theory is politically motivated trash that has never worked in the real world. Modern commies try to rectify the problem by either resorting to muh tabula rasa or arguing that true communism has never been implemented. Argument one is objectively false and argument two is a no true scotsman fallacy.
>>704580534 It's an excellent canard, though. Especially when you look at the circumstances of those deaths as opposed to the deaths caused by capitalism or fascism.
>>704575102 There are so many reasons why communism sucks ass. Best one i can think of is that people inherently suck, so in a communist society where you have no power to elect those who rule you, you just have a bunch of power hungry shitheads telling you what to do and controlling every aspect of your life. Sure democracy sucks, but it sucks less. Just look at north korea, communism is just old school monarchy reformatted, rich elite ruling poor cunts
how glorious you are willing to educate them. tell them your own activity belongs to you as a personal freedom and of course we need to pay basic taxes but the rest should be entirely free to the person. communism is basically a dictatorship.
>>704581278 Yah it is, but there is an element of control. Just look at trump, and brexit, and hitler. Democracy can make this shit happen when people vote for it. My problem with communism is 'what qualifies these people to rule me'. They arent especially gifted or intellectual, they arent all knowing skynet robots, how do people advance through the ranks of a communist regime, what benchmark is there for doing a good job. If they suck im stuck with them, if they are incompetent and i speak out I'll get killed or silenced. Communists are just people, usually fat lonely people, but people nonetheless. I'll take shit politicians i can vote out thanks
I read an excellent paper a decade ago that outlined why the soviet economy didn't work, if you are serious you might to look into how the system caused managers of factories etc to behave/stockpile.
> In a centrally planned economy, the state decides how much of a thing will be produced > Producing too much of a thing is wasteful, so there are inevitably shortages when not enough of thing are ordered in an attempt to avoid this > Reward/punishment for factory managers are based upon producing amount of thing, where they themselves are suffering from shortages of component things > Because of the emphasis on quantity and shortage of components, quality is shit > Because managers know they will get in trouble for not producing enough, they stockpile components whenever they can, which causes more shortages in the system > The entire economy gets fucked because the rational self interest of producers is to horde things, not sell things, and to make crappy things to meet quotas (and avoid using up valuable components), rather than quality things that actually work and sell > Result; long ass queues for basic things like crap ass bread or shoes, when there is actually no bread or shoes shortage
>>704579679 Pretty much this. Just talk about how although communism is sort of a noble idea with the hippy sharing shit, it will never work due to human greed and stuff like that. Do case studies for how capitalist entrepreneurs could bring in money and prosperity to the common man contrasting with the poverty under communism (Boris Yeltsin supermarket for example). Don't go totally McCarthyism though, as retarded as commies may be, it will just make you look bad in the end
It's a short list because they're the only ones who stuck to the magic that is socialism. And what amazing places they are to be, you know how many people are struggling to sneak into Laos to build a new life for themselves and their families? How many people are just dying to enjoy the freedoms the Chinese enjoy on a regular basis?
communism is closer to feudalism then to capitalism
if everyone owns property equally, it means nobody owns it but the people who can force a decision about it...
Communism was an idea that was massively going out of favour until it co-opted and absorbed socialism, and the only reason they could pull it off was because socialists were mostly do good university professors and un-organised idealist middle class...
its another scam to make poor people vote against their own interests just like the capitalists do with the communists. Communists just use "pure capitalism" as a fear tactic to choose the other extreme while both are equally destructive for the poor.
Socialism had lots of merit in the 1700s, it still has merit today even though a lot of what they wanted is actually known as "common sense policy" these days and considered capitalist...
Communism will never work because its not supposed to work, its not designed to work, its designed to be an everlasting struggle of the proletariat against the bourgeoisie just as feminists are locked in an ever lasting struggle against the patriarchy and the bush doctrine is against terrorists... it will never end, heck the soviets realised this and as soon as they had a weak president their union crumbled...
Im not saying its not possible to live in a communist society, but anything in the mainstream communist thought sphere only has 1 point... causing strife and upheaval of the weak against whoever is currently on top... and just reading their propaganda will make anyone see that...
extremism never works, moderation and taking the good parts of every system will provide stability and opportunity.
>>704582202 im pretty sure you are all mistaking comunism with a system of commons, the first is an ideology and the second how the system has to work. One can not succeed without the other. Comunism with a capitalist mentality will never work and viceversa neither
>>704582812 >Communism will never work because its not supposed to work, its not designed to work, its designed to be an everlasting struggle of the proletariat against the bourgeoisie just as feminists are locked in an ever lasting struggle against the patriarchy and the bush doctrine is against terrorists I wonder what the (((common factor))) could be with all those ideologies.
>>704582574 >implying we are still in tribes >"we are like lions we made it to here by stepping on eachother" >"muh human nature will never change" >inb4 muh soul >inb4 muh pseude religious believe of an "human escence"
>>704582645 that doesn't prove anything, the ancient Greek direct democracy arguably was the pinnacle of democracy yet they are no longer.
Romans were a totalitarian democracy, no longer
Modern Greece was a proper prosperous state until a couple corrupt leaders were elected and loaned all the sheckles... doesn't mean their economic system sucked.
Those states failed because they were totalitarian, and totalitarian states are inherently unstable... a leader that is irreplaceable to keeping the country together has set his country on a road to guaranteed failure once he dies.
>>704575102 People will always be lazier than others. Also some jobs are a lot more challenging either mentally or physically so why would anyone pick those jobs to keep society functioning when you could just do something easy all day, earn the same as everyone else and do 1/16th of the work.
the state creates cookie cutter jobs with wages and leave days and stuff depending on demand and stress the job gives, citizens fill in the spots and earn more or less wages and free days depending on what job they chose.
>>704582490 My post wasnt a defence of capitalism and democracy, it was an indictment of communism. In communist societies i just see no way of justifying who leads, who gets to make decisions, why someone gets to make the rules. Unelected corporations and rich cunts are a big problem for democracy, but that isnt a problem with the system so much as it is a problem with us. Apathy is so much of what is wrong with democratic nations. We whine and bitch and moan but no one does shit, in america like 50% of you vote. If people really want change it can happen, if people cbf getting up to vote then it wont.
>>704575102 Communism is anti individual and thus anti freedom. (literally) Also most importantly something commufags like to claim is that true communism never existed and that all that violence Stalin committed was a bastardization of true communism. This is in fact a lie. Communism can not work unless every single individual buys into the communist ideology. You will never find a society where that will ever happen, therefore if communism is to exist, then the dissenters need to be forced to conform. How do you force people to conform? Violence. Communism can not exist without violence.
>>704583609 More like he has a natural viewpoint that he needs help rationally supporting. After all, some people are predisposed to being leftist oven fuel, and some are more prone to being useful members of society.
>>704583963 >there cannot be competition between humans, there's like sharp sticks and rocks everywhere... and we might lose 2/3ths of all the people we know live on this earth if Mark and Jack bash each others skull in over Ivy.
>>704584014 You can't be this stupid. I build my own store and sell my own goods I must be oppressed and just not realize it. Sorry your little communist circle jerk dream of never having to work again will never exist. Go out and actually build something. There is a reason communist russia ended up collapsing on its self while the U.S. has been constantly growing and putting out world changing tech while russia is just happy their economy is stable now.
>>704575102 Communism Can't compete with Capitalism. When the Doctor makes as much as the garbage man, only the garbage man is happy. The DR will try to flee the country. That's why they build walls and have massive checkpoints. They need to keep the highly skilled workers there. Eventually production ginds to a screeching hault due to the removal of the most basic human nature...INCENTIVE. In capitalism, incentive is what drives the economy. I want a house well I guess I wont be a herpadur and go get a job and stop smoking weed. Back to Pinkocommieasswipes
Production slows and effects food output. People start to starve and get pissed off. PURGE time. GULAGS and forced labor camps alike for dissenters. Leaders of opposition and outright murdered. In some instances just start mass shooting people who cause trouble or dont produce for shit. Pol Pot, Mau ze tung, Stalin ect ect Killed some estimated 200Million + or -. Its a system designed to keep the 1% rich while everyone else suffers and no one can remove them from power. This is what the Democrats what but a hybrid version.
>>704584112 There will always be elites. That is human nature. There are several billion people on earth. There are people far more intelligent than you, more interesting than you, faster, stronger, taller, more beautiful. There are people who would save money where you spend it, people more creative than you, more artistic than you, people who are better singers and dancers, people with bigger dicks, perkier tits and tighter pussies. There are people who speak 9 languages where you have struggled to master one, people who have perfected instruments...who visualise music and dream up brilliant melodies. In truth, there is someone, somewhere who can do everything you do, but better. Why shouldnt our system of government reflect this.
>>704582574 Lol look at this talking about evolution in an interspecies conversation.
The main point to evolution is that the species that can be better wins. From an evolutionary standpoint communism is just as valid as capitalism. If we, as a species, are able to support each other we could potentially be better off than a species that has to compete, not only with other species, but with itself. A counter argument, however, could look at capitalism as a "culling" method (like gazelles that leave the sickly to be eaten by lions)
>>704584112 Communism is nominally anti-hierarchy (being anti-elite is just one facet of that) but then every time someone tries to actually implement it, all the features of a hierarchical society start flooding in.
Capitalism starts with the false principle of equality but is at least honest in admitting that hierarchy will naturally form in a society.
>>704575102 That 'punishing' the hard working rich people who went through loads of education and hard work is fucking bullshit despite their wealth. It discourages people from working really hard as they get NEET bucks or whatever if they don't work hard.
>>704586094 >From an evolutionary standpoint communism is just as valid as capitalism. It is not. I'm talking about natural selection at the societal level rather than the personal level. Communism is less fit than capitalism.
>>704575102 Russians couldn't make capitalism or fuedalism or any other isms work either, so throw out that example. Russians are simply retards. Now if you take Amerifat as an example of capitalism, and China as an example of communism, then you just need to look no further than the whole 19 trillion debt thing. Checkmate, Christians.
>>704586285 He gets it. I'll use the most extreme example its scales inward from there. The high lvl executive who works 15 hrs a day at work then is on his phone answering emails and never sees his kids but makes piles of money vs the bum who is a street bum. Scaling inward the MCdonalds worker who chooses to smoke weed and cant pass a drug test thus he cant move up in the world vs the welder who makes 80-140k /year.
Although probably not factually true, it has been said that Gorbachev realized that communism would not work, when he saw little boys playing footbal on the street with (virtually free) loaves of bread.
Understanding this is understanding why communism does not work. The government thought that bread was an essential good and made it virtually free. The problem is that bread is not virtually free. The costs of all resources were much higher than the price. Hence, when people were buying bread for purposes like footbal, they were allocating resources at a higher cost than their value (price).
Prices simply need to conatin all the information in the market (costs, suplly, demand).
>>704586930 Checkmate? No the Russians are at fault on that. Commies infiltrated politics long ago. Dems embraced them until it was widely unpopular to do so. Obama is on the tail end of being taught by straight up commies. His grandparents card carrying members. His mentor Frank M dAVIS WAS ONE AS WELL.
>>704575102 It won't work. If you're not informed enough to discuss your "cause" (capitalism keeping the working men in shackles) then don't bother. Everyone who genuinely sees your cause will out you as a faker.
There is Capitalism and then there is Crony Capitalism. Which is what we have now. The Fed, a privatly owned bank that prints our money and controls its rates is fucking us over. Bribes for gov access are massive. Gov would rather pay welfare and bring in H1B visas than fix the problem. Get rid of the illegals and kill most imigration until the unemployment rates gets back to normal. removed all the bs welfare and we are back in biz
Classic communist thery dictates that gov action is needed to take capitalism out of power, when they are all dead the state will magically give the power back to the people and THA's exactly why communism will never be achieved
>>704588603 US is not right leaning, before the turn of the 20th century the US was classic liberal, after the 20th century until today the US turned into a democracy with strong govt regulation and spending.. quite the opposite from a right leaning country
>>704587834 Just because you put it into a meme doesn't mean its true. Capitalism has LITERALLY built the modern world, has with stood decades of change and provides citizens in capitalist societies with the HIGHEST living standards of any other system.
>>704588980 >unregulated runaway capitalism >by the elites KEK, you just convinced me how economically illiterate you are.
China has a central bank that control all the supply of money, they practice extenvi QE just the the US, they regulate trade and tariffs but hey comrade.. nothing I say will change your meme view of how capitalism works
>>704587955 Soooo wrong. China is becoming increasingly more capitalist. Do you know how i know? Because my university had about 5000 students from china who were rich as fuck. My chinese mate owned a 3 million dollar penthouse apartment in the city overlooking the harbour. They are communist for the masses, but very much self interested capitalists for the elite. Also as a side note, the chinese community here looks down on people who support chinas communist regime. They call them wumao (think shillary paid posters), nobody likes communism because its super shit
Watching television on my 70" high def Having the money I need when I want to buy new clothes Having a reliable automobile Having the best doctors in the world Buying my own health insurance because I'm not a degenerate Having as many guns as I want because I'm a free man, using my own money that I've earned, buying things that I want.
Not living in government housing
Being able to quit my job if I don't like it and find a better one
>>704589205 First of all, to even assume the LEFTIST policy with liberals is a fucking meme. THomas jefferson, Washington ... they were liberals.
Second, you really think you can prove me wrong by just spewing the proclaimed ideology of the dems and republicans?? WHAT!!! both of them push more and more for gov regulation, spending, QE, economic incentives, foreign aid.... none of these actions are even remotely conservative, liberal or libertarian for that matter.
THEY ARE ALL LEFTISTS - just research soviet active measures in US politics and see for yourself why you parties are a meme, they are pushing the same agenda
>>704589340 Exactly, it's socialist. The whole liberal concept that the democrats are pushing is just a meme. As you said to the other anon, google soviet active measures and US politics and see for yourself
>>704589405 #notanarguement hows your fairy tale world treating you? It is not a myth but you can't even begin to disprove it because your just a lazy commie douche. Its not a myth your just to lazy to think on your own.
>>704589936 I was actually providing you with accurate economical data. I have a degree in Austrian Economics but hey, you would't be a socialist if you knew economics would you? kek choke on a dick fag.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kJKJM36lMTE since you are too lazy at least watch this, if not fuck off
>>704589618 Watching TV: boring Having money to buy shit you don't need Having a car, just to go from a to b, who needs more? Best doctors? are you sure? Health insurance? to cure you from cancer because USA has the highest cancer rate in the world, Sure you need a health insurance Having guns: sure, with all that wealth you need to protect yourself Gov Housing? What about all the homeless people in the US? Quit your job? You think people can't do it elsewhere? Start you own company? same as above etc.
>>704590476 >What is the slave trade >What are the Rothschilds >What was nationalism in Europe from the 1920s >What is operation condor >What were the great depressions Can't we just agree that both programs have resulted in massive losses of life and destruction instead of putting ideologies on pillars
>>704590330 >didn't see that coming Top Kek, >provide a source from FEE one of the most well renowned Economic journals Right Wing!!! Did you even look at the sources dumb fuck? One shows the Ten countries with the highest standard of living. tl;dr they are all Capitalist. Again you prove how intellectually dishonest you are. Can't prove your own statements, can't disprove mine but some how your convinced your right.
CAPITALISM REQUIRES DEREGULATION AND FREE TRADE, CORPORATISM IS THE OPPOSITE OF THAT, SPECIAL PRIVILAGES ARE CONCEDED TO THOSE FRIENDS OF THE REGIME AND THAT'S WHY THEY TURN INTO BIG CORPORATIONS. >illiterate much
>>704575102 going from a shit backwards feudal shithole that was czarist russia in 1919 to being the second global superpower in 1945, all while fighting the military that was curbstomping the rest of the eurofags. Second country to develop nuclear weapons, first country to put a satellite in space, first animal in space and first man in space. It's pretty impressive for something that """doesn't work"""
How you you feel about is mostly about your perception that you might be rich and powerful someday. (protip, you wont because youre 4chan degenerate retard)
>>704591257 You are the dumbest little twat I have had the displeasure of intellectually annihilating. FEE is NOT conservative or liberal, it is an economic journal for people literate in economics (clearly not you) created by Professors of Economics. Sorry your feeble commie brain cant think further past "I want money, why wont someone give me money". Keep pushing the argument away from the truth because you know your wrong. You can't refute the fact that the highest standards of living all exist in capitalist countries. Bye Bye now you little cuckold for big daddy government. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Foundation_for_Economic_Education
>>704591868 I'm not right wing, I'm a libertarian. And yes I'm a racist, I can accept black ppl but not ghetto niggers. I also have a gun and I thing that all the SJW's and BLM movement belongs in a ditch.
Are you cutting yourself already? Stream your sissy fit so I can laugh at you
>>704575102 The final step in Karl Marx's plan of communism is that the "leader" of the revolution that created it, steps down into the system, officially creating only one single class. The issue is that nobody in history has ever stepped down from power, leading to many of the horrible communist communities that we have today.
>>704591952 That's all fine and dandy, only problem is doing this while killing 05 million ppl with lenin and 20 million with Stalin and ensalaving the rest of the population from the Black sea to the sea of japan
>>704592142 Bring it on then. Your too lazy and idiotic a refute a single point made. All you can say is its a conservative website!!! Thats really the hill your choosing to die on huh? I don't even know what half the incoherent nigger talk your spewing means "we're going to soak your shit." Or the fact that the FEE link was literally just a supplement to the data showing the top 10 countries with the highest standards of living. Again keep pushing the argument further away from where it started. I can tell your little brain is trying so hard to think of a good insult.
>>704592387 Why would I care about that? Try harder then, poorfags. It's not that hard to succeed, just work harder than those around you. I was born and raised in Detroit. Poor as fuck. I made it, and so can others.
>>704592396 This point most definitely nullifies any case of it being a successful plan. It is HUMAN NATURE to stay in power when it is provided. Why would Karl Marx (creator of the Communist Manifesto) believe that someone would defy human nature to complete the system??
>>704591975 I'm not mad m8, I was only trying to get across your thick skull.. I was actually not shitposting and giving good reliable economic data.. but I can't do a thing you are incapable of interpretating it. I guess I overestimated you.
>>704592401 Cant you see I'm shitposting fuckwad. To even consider race as a means to judge caracter, and not individual actions, is to be a collectivist asshole and therefore a racist libertarian is an oxymoron
>>704592627 >You want the 1950s to come back, and we look forward to 2017. Hurrr duurrrr. Shouting conservative at everything doesnt make it so. And AGAIN, really spaced out so you get it. That article......... from the FEE....... was ........ only a...... SUPPLEMENT to the.......second article... Do you get it now? Lemme guess, numbers are conservative now? Economic metrics are conservative now? Or you just going to totally ignore it and keep crying about how conservative the FEE is.
>>704592986 It sure is fun arguing with retards. Is comical how you haven't backed up a single one your points but continue to spout off meaningless platitudes. Its okay I know I'm right, you know I'm right and your inability to actually address my points proves this. Now run along.
>>704593232 It's not my point Illiterate cuck, It's a fact noted back in the fucking 50s. You can't get around the shitposting because in the end you are an empty, dumb, illiterate waste of breathable air. We get it
Didn't go to college even though we all got it for free, more or less
Sit around doing drugs while complaining about having to pass a drug test to get a decent job
Abuse food stamp system by pretending to be homeless
Sell food stamps at 50% value to buy drugs
Complain about lack of opportunity in life
Get jobs, dont show up, get fired, somehow still the company's fault
Don't pay taxes (I'm actually ok with this part) but then complain about Michigan roads
Have children even though condoms and birth control are free at literally hundreds of local clinics
Teach children how to be losers
Suburban ass pseudo intellectuals telling me how the lower classes are trying so hard and can't catch a break. Go live there for a while. I'm from this shit. For every one person who can't catch a break, there's 20 who aren't even looking. This is a very prosperous country. Shove your pay gap bullshit up your ass.
yo hi there, legion, сап аноны, как жизнь молодая I'm russian and i can tell you one thing, people here fuckin hate the Soviet stuf. The idea is beautiful, but all my ancestors saw was hunger and fear of being reported of having the oppinion that differs from communism stuf communism rulez, people suck fat cock
>>704593559 KEK Thats the best you've got. Oh noes I didnt use you're instead of your on 4chan! How could I have ever made it past 2nd grade?! Point made anon I couldn't possibly be right about economics with such poor grammar.
>>704579485 >You've already lost by going into this biased as fuck. Predetermined mindsets do not belong in rational debate, and it's literally impossible to "win" if you won't accept the possibility of "losing" I absolutely fucking love you for saying this.Please breed and bring more rational reasoning into this world.
Communism is judaism, plain and simple. It's a one world government ruled by jewish people and other quasi intellectuals. It's not meant to "work" in real life because it's a bait & switch program meant to draw in weak and stupid people and con them into overthrowing legitimate governments and destroying civilized society in order to rebuild the world based upon principles of arrested development. People support communism know the least about everything and tend to be overly emotional to sociopathic, and almost always highly parasitic.
Please support this website by donating Bitcoins to 16mKtbZiwW52BLkibtCr8jUg2KVUMTxVQ5 If a post contains copyrighted or illegal content, please click on that post's [Report] button and fill out a post removal request
All trademarks and copyrights on this page are owned by their respective parties. Images uploaded are the responsibility of the Poster. Comments are owned by the Poster.
This is a 4chan archive - all of the content originated from that site. This means that 4Archive shows an archive of their content. If you need information for a Poster - contact them.