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Writing a paper on why Communism is trash, I'm debating

The stories and information posted here are artistic works of fiction and falsehood.
Only a fool would take anything posted here as fact.

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Writing a paper on why Communism is trash, I'm debating some very passionate red scum and need a bunch of reasons on why communism will never work. help /b/
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>>704575102
...your arguing with somebody on the internet. aren't you?
ffs
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class thing, but at this rate feels the same
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Every single time it's been grid it's resulted in the deaths of millions
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>>704576488
Actually yeah linking real examples could be a good idea.
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There wasnt communism in any satte yet

UdSSR and all the other "communist republics" were/are just dictatorships
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>>704575102
Lazy people will always fuck it up. On a small scale like a town or village it can work. Anything bigger and it is Destin to fail
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>>704578769
>>704578106
I think mentioning dictatorships would be a pretty good way to flip it onto it's head and that's an arguement people keep bringing up is if it can work in a small town / villiage why not a country one day.
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>>704575102
>red scum
You've already lost by going into this biased as fuck. Predetermined mindsets do not belong in rational debate, and it's literally impossible to "win" if you won't accept the possibility of "losing". Case in point the Nye/Ham debate when asked "what would make you change your mind?" And Nye said "evidence" while Ham said "nothing"

Even though helping is against my better judgement >>704578769 is a good place to start. I've always related communism to a beautiful glass sculpture there a lot of potential and it can be wonderful.....till some lazy dumbfuck wants to rest against it and breaks it.
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>>704575102
Humans are too corruptible for the amount of power associated with leading a communist society. Communism is a good idea but it only would work if every single person in the society is on the same page about everything. That's why it works in small farming villages and shit where they're just a homogenous bunch of peasants. But in today's world, with freedom and individuality valued so highly, true communism couldn't work.
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>>704578769
>Destin to fail
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>>704579485
Wont deny I'm biased, I like Russian language, I like chinese language I just hate the concept of communism - so far my main paragraph has been about how as long as humans have a drive to better for themselves and not for the country it wont work.
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zzzzzzzzzzzz
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We're just idiots for such thing work properly
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>>704575102
It ends up being a feudal system. The government still has to make the plans for all the big stuff like roads, the army and sanitation. So they justify taking more money and controlling everything. The government becomes all powerful and people actually don't end up owning or running anything, it's all at the disposal of the top 1 percent that would never give up their power.
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>>704579825
the fact that you have a drive for "improving" doesnt mean everyone has it
Most people are actually taught to have it
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Love the argument against communism that it's caused death, as if millions don't die due to capitalism not providing health care for the poor.
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>>704580534
ye dude when capitalism runs out of fuel those deaths will be counted as "x persons that capitalism killed"
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Marxist economic theory is politically motivated trash that has never worked in the real world. Modern commies try to rectify the problem by either resorting to muh tabula rasa or arguing that true communism has never been implemented. Argument one is objectively false and argument two is a no true scotsman fallacy.

>>704580534
It's an excellent canard, though. Especially when you look at the circumstances of those deaths as opposed to the deaths caused by capitalism or fascism.
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>>704575102
Unless the world resides in a post-scarcity situation, Marxist rhetoric fails time after time to the pitfalls of human nature and scarcity.
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>>704580523
It's pretty instinctual to want to better for yourself.
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>>704575102
All the dead people just mentioned the millions of dead people
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>>704575102
>against communism
>doesn't know why
why do stupid think they need to speak?
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>>704575102
There are so many reasons why communism sucks ass. Best one i can think of is that people inherently suck, so in a communist society where you have no power to elect those who rule you, you just have a bunch of power hungry shitheads telling you what to do and controlling every aspect of your life. Sure democracy sucks, but it sucks less. Just look at north korea, communism is just old school monarchy reformatted, rich elite ruling poor cunts
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>>704576488
Kind of a specious argument when people have been killing one another for profit for all of recorded history
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>>704581003
But democracy is rich elites ruling poor cunts too apparently

just look at the DNC and Debbie Wasserman-Schultz
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>>704580909
I do know why, read the thread- if you're gonna judge people based on intelligence maybe you should learn to read :^)
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>>704575102
First, you should know that Russia is not Communist.
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>>704581285
Yeah, I know modern Russia isn't and in the past it's only been an ideal but I was trying to show I'm not going for a racist approach against russia just the idea of communism alone.
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Capitalism is a pox. Communism or socialism are the only reasonable systems.
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>>704580858
to be better without damaging others, unluckily for you that is not what capitalism does
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>>704581284
>I do know why,
>need a bunch of reasons on why
pick one

if you can't formulate a cogent argument about why you're against communism on your own, you have no business debating its merits.
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>>704575102

how glorious you are willing to educate them.
tell them your own activity belongs to you as a personal freedom and of course we need to pay basic taxes but the rest should be entirely free to the person. communism is basically a dictatorship.
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I would say that communism is just as good as capitalism

>elites get all the wealth
>workers get just enough to live
>people who don't work get FUCKING ICED
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>>704581003
>implying north korea is commie
nice bait xdd, you should have said that with kim jon il, it would have made a bit more sense
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>>704575102
>need a bunch of reasons on why communism will never work

1945-1990's Russia
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>>704581435
>you shouldn't win because others might lose
Cancer.
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>>704575102
Putin - balding, weak-chinned midget commie faggot
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>>704581642
If one failed state impugns the system then we should stop doing capitalism because of the Weimar Republic
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>>704581348
you are against communism, yet the only info you have about it is the one you read in a capitalist media.
Its like reading about the bible in a anticlerical comunity
>note the struggle
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Daily reminder that liberal capitalism and communism are both shit-tier systems that ultimately serve the same purpose.
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>>704581278
Yah it is, but there is an element of control. Just look at trump, and brexit, and hitler. Democracy can make this shit happen when people vote for it. My problem with communism is 'what qualifies these people to rule me'. They arent especially gifted or intellectual, they arent all knowing skynet robots, how do people advance through the ranks of a communist regime, what benchmark is there for doing a good job. If they suck im stuck with them, if they are incompetent and i speak out I'll get killed or silenced. Communists are just people, usually fat lonely people, but people nonetheless. I'll take shit politicians i can vote out thanks
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>>704581720
>win-lose mentality
>not noticing the basic commons
>resources, energie, etc
>not brainwashed at all
enjoy your blue pill
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>>704581798
>Putin
>Comunist
Chose one
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>>704575102

I read an excellent paper a decade ago that outlined why the soviet economy didn't work, if you are serious you might to look into how the system caused managers of factories etc to behave/stockpile.

Short version:

> In a centrally planned economy, the state decides how much of a thing will be produced
> Producing too much of a thing is wasteful, so there are inevitably shortages when not enough of thing are ordered in an attempt to avoid this
> Reward/punishment for factory managers are based upon producing amount of thing, where they themselves are suffering from shortages of component things
> Because of the emphasis on quantity and shortage of components, quality is shit
> Because managers know they will get in trouble for not producing enough, they stockpile components whenever they can, which causes more shortages in the system
> The entire economy gets fucked because the rational self interest of producers is to horde things, not sell things, and to make crappy things to meet quotas (and avoid using up valuable components), rather than quality things that actually work and sell
> Result; long ass queues for basic things like crap ass bread or shoes, when there is actually no bread or shoes shortage
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>>704582070
Most communists believe in democratic decision-making.
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>>704581819
or congo, or almost every single colonized countrie
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>>704582227
Democracy is cancer so that makes sense.
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>>704582070
America has plenty of elites you can't vote to remove, just look at all the billionaire heirs who fund political campaigns

Are you telling me that someone who inherited billions has more justification to rule me than someone who has inherited communist party elite status?

I say neither has such authority! But the former has control of both US parties
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>>704582096
>needing things to better yourself
>implying competing with others isn't the nature of evolution and society
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>>704575102

>>704579679
Pretty much this. Just talk about how although communism is sort of a noble idea with the hippy sharing shit, it will never work due to human greed and stuff like that. Do case studies for how capitalist entrepreneurs could bring in money and prosperity to the common man contrasting with the poverty under communism (Boris Yeltsin supermarket for example). Don't go totally McCarthyism though, as retarded as commies may be, it will just make you look bad in the end
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>>704581819
Alright.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_socialist_states#Former

Take a look at that list of paradises. Wanna guess why they're no longer socialist states?

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_socialist_states#Current

It's a short list because they're the only ones who stuck to the magic that is socialism. And what amazing places they are to be, you know how many people are struggling to sneak into Laos to build a new life for themselves and their families? How many people are just dying to enjoy the freedoms the Chinese enjoy on a regular basis?
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>>704575102
read the communist manifesto.

communism is closer to feudalism then to capitalism

if everyone owns property equally, it means nobody owns it but the people who can force a decision about it...

Communism was an idea that was massively going out of favour until it co-opted and absorbed socialism, and the only reason they could pull it off was because socialists were mostly do good university professors and un-organised idealist middle class...

its another scam to make poor people vote against their own interests just like the capitalists do with the communists. Communists just use "pure capitalism" as a fear tactic to choose the other extreme while both are equally destructive for the poor.

Socialism had lots of merit in the 1700s, it still has merit today even though a lot of what they wanted is actually known as "common sense policy" these days and considered capitalist...

Communism will never work because its not supposed to work, its not designed to work, its designed to be an everlasting struggle of the proletariat against the bourgeoisie just as feminists are locked in an ever lasting struggle against the patriarchy and the bush doctrine is against terrorists... it will never end, heck the soviets realised this and as soon as they had a weak president their union crumbled...

Im not saying its not possible to live in a communist society, but anything in the mainstream communist thought sphere only has 1 point... causing strife and upheaval of the weak against whoever is currently on top... and just reading their propaganda will make anyone see that...

extremism never works, moderation and taking the good parts of every system will provide stability and opportunity.
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>>704582202
This is a bad argument because capitalists fall prey to perverse incentives too: e.g. health insurance

You cant hope to win a debate if your accusations don't reflect well on your side
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>>704581473
It's a debate of minimum 1000 words, I have points but not enough to fill out a debate.
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>>704582202
im pretty sure you are all mistaking comunism with a system of commons,
the first is an ideology and the second how the system has to work. One can not succeed without the other. Comunism with a capitalist mentality will never work and viceversa neither
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Its will nevet work coz equality is impossible. there will always be the rich mother fuckers and the poor ass lickers. The end
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>>704582812
>Communism will never work because its not supposed to work, its not designed to work, its designed to be an everlasting struggle of the proletariat against the bourgeoisie just as feminists are locked in an ever lasting struggle against the patriarchy and the bush doctrine is against terrorists
I wonder what the (((common factor))) could be with all those ideologies.
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>>704582643
This and other annon but dont be surprised they counter with the who epipen and HIV medication shit
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>>704582574
If you're a non-colonial bacteria maybe, but as humans we have millions of years of evidence of food sharing networks that helped us stop becoming wolfchow

Check out the evolutionary principle known as inclusive fitness
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>>704582868

That doesn't make it a bad argument, its an illustrative example of bad practice in one sector.

Now imagine your whole economy is run like that.
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>>704582574
>implying we are still in tribes
>"we are like lions we made it to here by stepping on eachother"
>"muh human nature will never change"
>inb4 muh soul
>inb4 muh pseude religious believe of an "human escence"
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>>704582645
that doesn't prove anything, the ancient Greek direct democracy arguably was the pinnacle of democracy yet they are no longer.

Romans were a totalitarian democracy, no longer

Modern Greece was a proper prosperous state until a couple corrupt leaders were elected and loaned all the sheckles... doesn't mean their economic system sucked.

Those states failed because they were totalitarian, and totalitarian states are inherently unstable... a leader that is irreplaceable to keeping the country together has set his country on a road to guaranteed failure once he dies.
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>>704575102
People will always be lazier than others.
Also some jobs are a lot more challenging either mentally or physically so why would anyone pick those jobs to keep society functioning when you could just do something easy all day, earn the same as everyone else and do 1/16th of the work.
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>>704575102
so basically, you have an uneducated opinion, and are asking the internet to help you rationalize it?
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>>704583235
>implying we are still in tribes
But we are. Human nature doesn't change and tabula rasa is objectively false.

>>704583197
>there can never be any competition within the in-group
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>>704583028
Proletarian struggles are part of Roman history before they conquered Judea

you're an idiot and an antisemite
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>>704583293
what about communism with wages?

the state creates cookie cutter jobs with wages and leave days and stuff depending on demand and stress the job gives, citizens fill in the spots and earn more or less wages and free days depending on what job they chose.
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>>704583449
Class revolts do not communism make.
I am an anti-semite, though. Get into the oven.
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>>704583371
No, there cannot be competition between humans. It's too dangerous. We have nukes now
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>>704575102
the fact that you're not educated enough, or intelligent enough to debate communists - speaks volumes about today's capitalist.

you rely on the propaganda of others, as fuel for your counterpoints.

typical right-wing scum.
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>>704582490
My post wasnt a defence of capitalism and democracy, it was an indictment of communism. In communist societies i just see no way of justifying who leads, who gets to make decisions, why someone gets to make the rules. Unelected corporations and rich cunts are a big problem for democracy, but that isnt a problem with the system so much as it is a problem with us. Apathy is so much of what is wrong with democratic nations. We whine and bitch and moan but no one does shit, in america like 50% of you vote. If people really want change it can happen, if people cbf getting up to vote then it wont.
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>>704575102
Communism is anti individual and thus anti freedom. (literally) Also most importantly something commufags like to claim is that true communism never existed and that all that violence Stalin committed was a bastardization of true communism. This is in fact a lie. Communism can not work unless every single individual buys into the communist ideology. You will never find a society where that will ever happen, therefore if communism is to exist, then the dissenters need to be forced to conform. How do you force people to conform? Violence. Communism can not exist without violence.
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>>704583028
whats up with the brackets, wont those dissolve due to not adding to the calculation?

just like 1+ (( 5+ 4) + 2)

just becomes 1 + 5 + 4 + 2 or 1 + 11 because the brackets do nothing
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>>704583632
Sure but if the argument against communism also works as an argument against liberal capitalism is it really an argument against communism?
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>>704583601
You're retarded.

>>704583609
More like he has a natural viewpoint that he needs help rationally supporting. After all, some people are predisposed to being leftist oven fuel, and some are more prone to being useful members of society.
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>>704583881
No you're retarded if you've never heard of nuclear weapons
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>>704583609

Yup.

All these "communist" states you guys keep citing as totalitarian states.

The "communist" part is the illusion kept up by the rulers to keep the working class in line.

That sounds awfully fucking familiar, doesn't it?

When will you realize capitalism is the realest conspiracy that exists?
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>>704583795
Putting something in triple parentheses is a shorthand for calling that thing Jewish.
Feminism, communism, and neoconservatism are all infested with Jews.
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so if communism and capitalism both have an elites problem why don't we change the argument to should we have elites
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>>704583963
>there cannot be competition between humans, there's like sharp sticks and rocks everywhere... and we might lose 2/3ths of all the people we know live on this earth if Mark and Jack bash each others skull in over Ivy.
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>>704584014
You can't be this stupid. I build my own store and sell my own goods I must be oppressed and just not realize it. Sorry your little communist circle jerk dream of never having to work again will never exist. Go out and actually build something. There is a reason communist russia ended up collapsing on its self while the U.S. has been constantly growing and putting out world changing tech while russia is just happy their economy is stable now.
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>>704584140
you're comparing prehistoric warfare to ICBMs
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>>704575102
>Communism
>Putin
You've already lost anon.
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social programs will never take hold in America because Americans prefer being right to having access to education and healthcare

MURKA
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>>704575102
>communism
>posts putin
You do realize that putin is a czar ergo the complete opposite of communism. Right?
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>>704581407
Cite or explain, you twat.
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Hey man who am I to argue with the shit you learned in high school, everyone knows anyone who learns anything after high school is a rat Jew intellectual commie fuck
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>>704584251
Actually it's not so stable right now with all the war going on in eastern Ukraine, the sanctions from EU and the oil crisis.
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>>704583371
your main point is that and anything else
>human nature never changes
Try to describe human nature without sounding stupid and one sided
>6/10 bait the argument is overused
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>>704575102
Communism Can't compete with Capitalism. When the Doctor makes as much as the garbage man, only the garbage man is happy. The DR will try to flee the country. That's why they build walls and have massive checkpoints. They need to keep the highly skilled workers there. Eventually production ginds to a screeching hault due to the removal of the most basic human nature...INCENTIVE. In capitalism, incentive is what drives the economy. I want a house well I guess I wont be a herpadur and go get a job and stop smoking weed. Back to Pinkocommieasswipes

Production slows and effects food output. People start to starve and get pissed off. PURGE time. GULAGS and forced labor camps alike for dissenters. Leaders of opposition and outright murdered. In some instances just start mass shooting people who cause trouble or dont produce for shit. Pol Pot, Mau ze tung, Stalin ect ect Killed some estimated 200Million + or -. Its a system designed to keep the 1% rich while everyone else suffers and no one can remove them from power. This is what the Democrats what but a hybrid version.
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>>704585358
the same could be said of America: jobless recovery, 5+ wars ongoing, a crazy amount of drug, gang and police violence
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>>704582490
They fund campaigns but they still have to be voted in and still have less power than a member of any commie inner party.
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>>704584112
There will always be elites. That is human nature. There are several billion people on earth. There are people far more intelligent than you, more interesting than you, faster, stronger, taller, more beautiful. There are people who would save money where you spend it, people more creative than you, more artistic than you, people who are better singers and dancers, people with bigger dicks, perkier tits and tighter pussies. There are people who speak 9 languages where you have struggled to master one, people who have perfected instruments...who visualise music and dream up brilliant melodies. In truth, there is someone, somewhere who can do everything you do, but better. Why shouldnt our system of government reflect this.
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>>704584724
I'm very sorry you spent money to hear a more in-depth version of the bullshit that you were fed in high school.
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I think all the capitalists itt are seriously "I'd be happy to work with a gun at my back but only if the soldier is capitalist"
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>>704575422
kek
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>>704582574
Lol look at this talking about evolution in an interspecies conversation.

The main point to evolution is that the species that can be better wins. From an evolutionary standpoint communism is just as valid as capitalism. If we, as a species, are able to support each other we could potentially be better off than a species that has to compete, not only with other species, but with itself. A counter argument, however, could look at capitalism as a "culling" method (like gazelles that leave the sickly to be eaten by lions)
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>>704584112
Communism is nominally anti-hierarchy (being anti-elite is just one facet of that) but then every time someone tries to actually implement it, all the features of a hierarchical society start flooding in.

Capitalism starts with the false principle of equality but is at least honest in admitting that hierarchy will naturally form in a society.
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>>704575102
That 'punishing' the hard working rich people who went through loads of education and hard work is fucking bullshit despite their wealth. It discourages people from working really hard as they get NEET bucks or whatever if they don't work hard.
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>>704586094
>From an evolutionary standpoint communism is just as valid as capitalism.
It is not. I'm talking about natural selection at the societal level rather than the personal level. Communism is less fit than capitalism.
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>>704586285
Ok then you have my ear

Explain.
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>>704575102
Russians couldn't make capitalism or fuedalism or any other isms work either, so throw out that example. Russians are simply retards.
Now if you take Amerifat as an example of capitalism, and China as an example of communism, then you just need to look no further than the whole 19 trillion debt thing.
Checkmate, Christians.
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>>704586285
He gets it. I'll use the most extreme example its scales inward from there. The high lvl executive who works 15 hrs a day at work then is on his phone answering emails and never sees his kids but makes piles of money vs the bum who is a street bum. Scaling inward the MCdonalds worker who chooses to smoke weed and cant pass a drug test thus he cant move up in the world vs the welder who makes 80-140k /year.
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>>704586597
Communist societies have sadder and materially poorer populations and stagnant economies while offering no benefits over capitalism or other political/economic systems.

The exact things that communists seek to avoid are replicated in their societies, while also rendering them less able to respond to internal and external threats.
>>
Although probably not factually true, it has been said that Gorbachev realized that communism would not work, when he saw little boys playing footbal on the street with (virtually free) loaves of bread.

Understanding this is understanding why communism does not work. The government thought that bread was an essential good and made it virtually free. The problem is that bread is not virtually free. The costs of all resources were much higher than the price. Hence, when people were buying bread for purposes like footbal, they were allocating resources at a higher cost than their value (price).

Prices simply need to conatin all the information in the market (costs, suplly, demand).
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>>704586930
Checkmate? No the Russians are at fault on that. Commies infiltrated politics long ago. Dems embraced them until it was widely unpopular to do so. Obama is on the tail end of being taught by straight up commies. His grandparents card carrying members. His mentor Frank M dAVIS WAS ONE AS WELL.
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>>704575102
It won't work. If you're not informed enough to discuss your "cause" (capitalism keeping the working men in shackles) then don't bother. Everyone who genuinely sees your cause will out you as a faker.
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>>704586125
Capitalism is hierarchy. Liberal democracy tries to alleviate that.
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>>704587301
But it doesn't need to be alleviated.
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There is Capitalism and then there is Crony Capitalism. Which is what we have now. The Fed, a privatly owned bank that prints our money and controls its rates is fucking us over. Bribes for gov access are massive. Gov would rather pay welfare and bring in H1B visas than fix the problem. Get rid of the illegals and kill most imigration until the unemployment rates gets back to normal. removed all the bs welfare and we are back in biz
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>>704587301
No its a sham. You think Hillary or Nancy Pelosi is gonna give up their power? If Hillary doesnt win the prez she is going to jail and she knows it.
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>>704575102
>Writing a paper on why Communism is trash,

the get the fuck off /b/ you lazy Trumpfag fuck and get to fucking work
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>>704587696
Take a look at South vs North Korea checkmate
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>>704587782
>Clinton is going to jail
>because I say so
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>>704575102
Communism is trash. Capitalism is trash.

Communism works in China, to this day.
Capitalism works in America, to this day.

Your argument is moronic at best and you should both feel stupid for having the opinions you do without actual examination of active societies with economic infrastructure.

Stupid fucking kids.
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>>704587267
Funny thing is your American 'left wing' party is pretty right wing by global standards. In my country i could legit see hillary running for the conservative party.
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>>704587804
what the fuck?
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>>704587955
>Communism works in China, to this day.

China dropped most of its Communist shit in the 1980s

you are a retard
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>>704575102
research ludwig von mises work and you will be pretty well based
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>>704588038
Get the fuck off /b/ you faggot, and write your fucking paper.

If I were your teacher and I found out you were going to a trap board to do your "research" I would fucking flunk you on the spot.

And yeah you're probably a Trumpfag since liberals don't just outright dismiss communism as "trash."
>>
>>704588103
You live there? You understand how their government monitors the citizens and media content they're allowed to ingest?

You don't even know what communism actually is you post 1998 pig headed little nigger. Shoo now, shoo.
>>
>>704575102
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Q_2HuEaCRnI
>>
>>704588369
China is a capitalist country now. Yes, the government is crazy right wing bullshit.

But it isn't "Communist" why the fuck are you replying retard?
>>
>>704588465
That's a good question. Enjoy your mediocre role in life boy, I'll see you next time I feel like having fast food.
>>
>>
>>704588462
When a right-leaning country like the US pushes this kind of shit, we don't know for sure if it did or not.
>>
>>704588543
Enjoy being proven wrong.

You sound like an oldfag still stuck in the Cold War.
>>
>>704578106
You reaver read Marx hav you?

Classic communist thery dictates that gov action is needed to take capitalism out of power, when they are all dead the state will magically give the power back to the people and THA's exactly why communism will never be achieved
>>
>>704583609
The fact that you would even defend communism says that you're a child, lazy, utopian, idealistic, and ultimately useless.
>>
>>704575102
"I'm a fucking retard who can't think for myself and formulate my own opinions. Help me /b/!"
>>
>>704588465
China is Keysian.. and there is a large gap between that and capitalism m8
>>
>>704588465
China - right wing pick one
>>
>>704588649
Your perception of proof is fallible at best. You're showing your lack of IQ by acting as though you've displayed anything, let alone won anything.

Myopic little boy, stay the same.
>>
>>704583609
There's no point in arguing with kulaks, comrade.
>>
>>704585358
Yea but thats outside of what we are discussing. Russia has seen tremendous GDP growth under Putin.
>>
>>704588657
Thus why he is one B now and not producing.
>>
>>704588603
US is not right leaning, before the turn of the 20th century the US was classic liberal, after the 20th century until today the US turned into a democracy with strong govt regulation and spending.. quite the opposite from a right leaning country
>>
>>704588747
China is not Kenysian. It is unregulated runaway capitalism by the elites.
>>
>>704585832
>I think all the capitalists itt are seriously "I'd be happy to work with a gun at my back but only if the soldier is capitalist"
what?
>>
>>704588801
No you're showing that you're a brainwashed lockstep idiot who believes China is Communist because it's something you learned in grade school during the 1980s.
>>
>>704588920
>US is not right leaning,
Bullshit

Both parties are center-right politically

>strong govt regulation
because of liberal elements in a right-leaning government

you really don't know US politics m8 js
>>
>>704587834
Just because you put it into a meme doesn't mean its true. Capitalism has LITERALLY built the modern world, has with stood decades of change and provides citizens in capitalist societies with the HIGHEST living standards of any other system.
>>
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>>704588798
China is a military-run dictatorship. That is not "liberal."
>>
>>704588980
>unregulated runaway capitalism
>by the elites
KEK, you just convinced me how economically illiterate you are.

China has a central bank that control all the supply of money, they practice extenvi QE just the the US, they regulate trade and tariffs but hey comrade.. nothing I say will change your meme view of how capitalism works
>>
>>704583271
>idea is put forward
>idea is tested repeatedly throughout the world
>idea fails every time and leads to nothing but suffering
>"that doesn't prove anything"

It must be so comfortable to compare capitalism as it is with socialism as you imagine it to be.
>>
>>704587955
Only thing about communism is that the government can suddenly seize the power to control means of production. Its not actually communism where wealth is distributed
>>
>>704589273
>the myth of capitalism

kek
>>
well said, anon. thank you for posting a very englightning statement.

however, some one already has mentioned DAH JOOZE, and get reading to be called a nigger, faggot, and basement-dwelling neck beard.
>>
>>704587955
Soooo wrong. China is becoming increasingly more capitalist. Do you know how i know? Because my university had about 5000 students from china who were rich as fuck. My chinese mate owned a 3 million dollar penthouse apartment in the city overlooking the harbour. They are communist for the masses, but very much self interested capitalists for the elite. Also as a side note, the chinese community here looks down on people who support chinas communist regime. They call them wumao (think shillary paid posters), nobody likes communism because its super shit
>>
>>704575102
for fuck sake OP
just pander on your freedoms
>>
>>704589357
It's still capitalism shitwad.

China has workers and they get paid wages. That's capitalism.

And if Republicans had their way, they'd want one entity controlling all the money too, so they could make their rich buddies richer.
>>
>>704587267
Except Obama didn't create the debt, Bush and 2 unfunded wars, the Bush tax cuts, and TARP did that.
>>
>>704587696
I'll tell you where

Watching television on my 70" high def
Having the money I need when I want to buy new clothes
Having a reliable automobile
Having the best doctors in the world
Buying my own health insurance because I'm not a degenerate
Having as many guns as I want because I'm a free man, using my own money that I've earned, buying things that I want.

Not living in government housing

Being able to quit my job if I don't like it and find a better one

Being able to start my own company

Just to name a few
>>
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>>704575102
Because every communist country had to prevent the successful people from escaping/defecting to stay viable as a nation. Basically imprisoning people within their own borders.

Never heard of any capitalist country that bars its own citizens from emigrating.
>>
The all fucking world is capitalist now, capitalism is just the final form of trading. Plus societyes natturaly evolves to take a hierachical/Pyramidal form. So commies are retards
>>
>>704589273
At what price for the world and for the next generation?
>>
>>704589618
I hope your taxes skyrocket during the Clinton years

It's the best revenge, really.
>>
>>704589618
God bless America.
>>
>>704589205
First of all, to even assume the LEFTIST policy with liberals is a fucking meme. THomas jefferson, Washington ... they were liberals.

Second, you really think you can prove me wrong by just spewing the proclaimed ideology of the dems and republicans?? WHAT!!!
both of them push more and more for gov regulation, spending, QE, economic incentives, foreign aid.... none of these actions are even remotely conservative, liberal or libertarian for that matter.

THEY ARE ALL LEFTISTS - just research soviet active measures in US politics and see for yourself why you parties are a meme, they are pushing the same agenda
>>
>>704589810
>Republicans
>Democrats
>THEY ARE ALL LEFTISTS

stupid dipshit

>just research

translation: go on a wild goose chase for me since I can't prove my point

kek
>>
>>704589340
Exactly, it's socialist.
The whole liberal concept that the democrats are pushing is just a meme. As you said to the other anon, google soviet active measures and US politics and see for yourself
>>
>>704589939
You Google it.

Post the top 5 examples.

Prediction: It's probably stupid right wing lolbertarian bullshit.
>>
Won't work?
https://youtu.be/zIddCEBCKHQ
>>
>>704575102
Do you know that the turks are 100000 times more evil than the Russian.
>>
>>704589405
#notanarguement
hows your fairy tale world treating you? It is not a myth but you can't even begin to disprove it because your just a lazy commie douche. Its not a myth your just to lazy to think on your own.

http://www.mapsofworld.com/world-top-ten/world-top-ten-quality-of-life-map.html
https://fee.org/articles/the-myth-of-scandinavian-socialism/
>>
>>704590094
>jet fuel can't melt steel beams

protip: don't post youtube videos unless you're watching music videos or some scene from Seinfeld.
>>
>>704589570State run economy is not capitalism you illiterate fuck.

Capitalism is free trade and privatized money.. anything other than that is nothing but various degrees of socialism
I>E when the state seizes the means of production from private individuals.

I know republicans would do that, the same as the Democrats, that's why they are both fucking leftist. Anarcho capitalism is the way to go
>>
>>704589273
Todays retarded millenials are only capable of memes and not critical thought.

Our future is fucked.
>>
>>704589595
He just tripled it.. not saying bush was any better but obama is a cuck
>>
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>>704589726
They won't. Her tax plan is barely higher than trump. I'd still prefer Johnson, and the complete removal of income tax, but hey, whatever.
>>
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>>
>>704590172
I don't need to "disprove" it.

You're a butthurt right-wing faggot who sucks corporatist cock.

>the-myth-of-scandinavian-socialism/

oh wow some stupid right wing blog agrees with you

didn't see that coming

kek
>>
>>704587666
Satan is absolutely right.
>>
>>704575102
it always fails

the end
>>
>>704589706
High standards of living/ vs gulags..... Hmmmm I think I'll take private-ownership over forced labor. Thanks for the platitude!
>>
>>704575102
Ask them for an example of where it has worked...they will have no answer if they are honest, it has never worked and never will.
>>
>>704590218
>State run economy is not capitalism you illiterate fuck

when "state run" means big business can do whatever the fuck it wants to make money, yes it is.

It is the very worst capitalism.
>>
>>704576488
Kind of a retarded argument considering capitalism has also lead to death, arguably even more than Marxist Leninst regimes ever have.
>>
>>704590323
Compare those numbers with Stalin's kill count and shut the fuck up.
>>
>>704579679
so what you're saying is that if we could somehow have a communist society without the corruption, the world will be a better place?

So we just need computerss to be our overlords to lead the communist revolution!
>>
>>704589936
I was actually providing you with accurate economical data. I have a degree in Austrian Economics but hey, you would't be a socialist if you knew economics would you?
kek
choke on a dick fag.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kJKJM36lMTE since you are too lazy at least watch this, if not fuck off
>>
>>704590218
>Anarcho capitalism is the way to go

Which still gives the top dogs the most power because of a lack of regulation

just like Chinese capitalism
>>
>>704589618
God bless China.
>>
>>704590060
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kJKJM36lMTE
>>
>>704590377
Look at
>>704590094
>>704590273
While neither ideology is perfect, there are many examples of functioning socialist societies.
>>
>>704590224
God have mercy on our souls
>>
>>704590313
Bullshit. Trump's plan is to cut taxes down to practically nothing.

You are lying, and you will bitch like a faggot about your taxes during the Clinton Years.
>>
watch this in its entirity

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6P97r9Ci5Kg


in the end we might not like to admit it but communism (aka star trek society) is inevitable
>>
>>704575102
human nature.

end of argument.
>>
>>704590515
>accurate economical data
about Democrats and Republicans are all "LEFTISTS."

stop posting retard
>>
>>704590515
>I have a degree in Austrian Economics

I'm sorry
>>
>>704589618
Watching TV: boring
Having money to buy shit you don't need
Having a car, just to go from a to b, who needs more?
Best doctors? are you sure?
Health insurance? to cure you from cancer because USA has the highest cancer rate in the world, Sure you need a health insurance
Having guns: sure, with all that wealth you need to protect yourself
Gov Housing? What about all the homeless people in the US?
Quit your job? You think people can't do it elsewhere?
Start you own company? same as above etc.
>>
>>704589726
>>
>>704590218
Authoritarianism doesn't mean left wing, you moron.
Hitler put communists and socialists in the concentration camps and provided slave labor for PRIVATELY owned companies.
>>
>>704590476
>What is the slave trade
>What are the Rothschilds
>What was nationalism in Europe from the 1920s
>What is operation condor
>What were the great depressions
Can't we just agree that both programs have resulted in massive losses of life and destruction instead of putting ideologies on pillars
>>
>>704590544
Nope, monopoly is actually something quite rare in a free trade economy. Only example I can think of is Standard oil before J.P morgan and edison invented electricity.

Actually, the whole sherman act thing was in fact to protect smaller, less competitive business that could not keep up with better prices.

https://mises.org/library/anatomy-antitrust-interview-dominick-t-armentano
>>
>>704590555
I could care fuck all for your youtube video.

Post even ONE example from Google that backs up your point.

Protip: you can't because it's so fucking retarded and asinine.
>>
>>704590422
It's called corporatism. I.e NOT CAPITALISM
>>
>>704590330
>didn't see that coming
Top Kek,
>provide a source from FEE one of the most well renowned Economic journals
Right Wing!!!
Did you even look at the sources dumb fuck? One shows the Ten countries with the highest standard of living. tl;dr they are all Capitalist. Again you prove how intellectually dishonest you are. Can't prove your own statements, can't disprove mine but some how your convinced your right.
>>
>>704590548
Tv is Korean
Clothes are Indonesian or some shit
Car is American
Guns are American (and one Austrian)

Fuck thyself
>>
>>704590881
You want corporate tyranny as seen in China and the US, only worse with ZERO regulations.

Srsly Fuck your Ayn Rand crotchlevel view of society.
>>
>>704590643
Have you actually read trumps tax plan? It's literally right in his website you retard. For most people who aren't millionaires, it's like a 5% difference. God you're a fucking retard.
>>
>>704590928
Corporatism is still capitalism, only with massive deregulation. Which is what the Chinese and frankly the Republicans prefer.
>>
>>704590882
http://digitalarchive.wilsoncenter.org/collection/52/mitrokhin-archive

https://www.amazon.com/Sword-Shield-Mitrokhin-Archive-History/dp/0465003125

Just a couple of the thousands of books written on the subject of active measures by the KGB.
>>
>>704590942
>of the most well renowned Economic journals

if you're a conservative

faggot it's really really just easier to drop the point

of course butthurt conservatives don't want to share power with the citizenry
>>
>>704590942
I don't have to prove anything.

Your sources are shit, that means so are your arguments.
>>
>>704591129
Fucking bullshit faggot

Trump wants to ELIMINATE taxes for most of the populace, and cut corporate taxes to 15%

stop fucking posting
>>
>>704591163
FUCKKKKK MEEEEEEEE

CAPITALISM REQUIRES DEREGULATION AND FREE TRADE, CORPORATISM IS THE OPPOSITE OF THAT, SPECIAL PRIVILAGES ARE CONCEDED TO THOSE FRIENDS OF THE REGIME AND THAT'S WHY THEY TURN INTO BIG CORPORATIONS.
>illiterate much
>>
>>704591388
Nice try trumpfag. You guys are almost retarded as hillaryniggers
>>
>>704591207

Prove that both the Democrats and Republicans are "leftist."

You can't.
>>
>>704590949
your point being?
Other than that you won't purchase American made consumer products
>>
>>704591451
>all caps

butthurt faggot
>>
>>704591039
and you want to get free shit without working for it but the only thing you are going to get is being stuck in a gulag breaking rocks for the rest of your life.

Fuck Ayn Rand btw, Long live Mises, Rothbard and Hoppe
>>
>>704591504
Not a Trumpfag. A Clinton supporter pointing out specific examples from Trump's economic plan that are on his website.

Not sure if trolling stupid or both
>>
>>704591582
>and you want to get free shit

stopped reading there
>>
>>704591507
lets see tyrone.
They are both voting for larger government, increase spending, foreign aid, regulation on free trade....
but no.. no leftist shit found kek
>>
>>704591535
Except that the two most expensive things I mentioned are American products (my Cadillac and my gun collection.)

No reading comprehension.

Jesus Christ dude
>>
>>704591773
>tyrone.
stopped reading there

you're a stupid racist right-wing dipshit and your opinions are discounted

fuck off

stop replying
>>
>>704591536
nice argument commie fag.

Go consume the shit I make and make me rich
>>
>>704591798
>my Cadillac and my gun collection

insecure much

I'd hate to be you at the Thanksgiving dinner table
>>
>>704575102
going from a shit backwards feudal shithole that was czarist russia in 1919 to being the second global superpower in 1945, all while fighting the military that was curbstomping the rest of the eurofags. Second country to develop nuclear weapons, first country to put a satellite in space, first animal in space and first man in space. It's pretty impressive for something that """doesn't work"""

How you you feel about is mostly about your perception that you might be rich and powerful someday. (protip, you wont because youre 4chan degenerate retard)
>>
>>704591257
You are the dumbest little twat I have had the displeasure of intellectually annihilating. FEE is NOT conservative or liberal, it is an economic journal for people literate in economics (clearly not you) created by Professors of Economics. Sorry your feeble commie brain cant think further past "I want money, why wont someone give me money".
Keep pushing the argument away from the truth because you know your wrong. You can't refute the fact that the highest standards of living all exist in capitalist countries. Bye Bye now you little cuckold for big daddy government.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Foundation_for_Economic_Education
>>
>>704591892
did you break your caps lock button when you were that mad faggot

kek
>>
>>704591677
You can read?? shit m8

But I guess you are right, since the state is incapable of producing wealth the correct phrase would be: "you want to get shit that was stolen through taxes"
>>
>>704591972
Like I said

it would have been so much easier to just drop the point then continue to polish this turd as you're still doing

nobody cares that your right-leaning economic theory agrees with you and that you hate social democracy.

Enjoy your taxes going up during Clinton. If we can't shut you up, you'd better fucking believe we're going to soak your shit.
>>
>>704592043
>durr hurr free shit

stupid right wing faggot
>>
>>704591938
The beauty of capitalism provided these things. Stay mad, fag.
>>
>>704591972
>you know your wrong.

kek
>>
>>704591868
I'm not right wing, I'm a libertarian. And yes I'm a racist, I can accept black ppl but not ghetto niggers. I also have a gun and I thing that all the SJW's and BLM movement belongs in a ditch.

Are you cutting yourself already? Stream your sissy fit so I can laugh at you
>>
>>704592186
The "beauty of capitalism" also provided the insanely disproportionate economic gap you're more than happy to be a cheerleader for
>>
>>704575102
The final step in Karl Marx's plan of communism is that the "leader" of the revolution that created it, steps down into the system, officially creating only one single class. The issue is that nobody in history has ever stepped down from power, leading to many of the horrible communist communities that we have today.
>>
>>704592267
You're a fucking disgrace to libertarianism. Please leave our cause. Go be a trumpfag.
>>
>>704591952
That's all fine and dandy, only problem is doing this while killing 05 million ppl with lenin and 20 million with Stalin and ensalaving the rest of the population from the Black sea to the sea of japan
>>
>>704592267
>I'm not right wing, I'm a libertarian.
there is literally no difference

>And yes I'm a racist

good, I appreciate your honesty

fuck you
>>
>>704592142
Bring it on then. Your too lazy and idiotic a refute a single point made. All you can say is its a conservative website!!! Thats really the hill your choosing to die on huh? I don't even know what half the incoherent nigger talk your spewing means "we're going to soak your shit." Or the fact that the FEE link was literally just a supplement to the data showing the top 10 countries with the highest standards of living. Again keep pushing the argument further away from where it started. I can tell your little brain is trying so hard to think of a good insult.
>>
>>704592232
#notanargument
>>
>>704592387
Why would I care about that? Try harder then, poorfags. It's not that hard to succeed, just work harder than those around you. I was born and raised in Detroit. Poor as fuck. I made it, and so can others.
>>
>>704591798
Also the most not renewable products
>muh,muh, I buy a new cadillac every year
yeah, you sure do anon.

Sure you have done some big one time purchases, not denying that.
However the stuff you obviously most renew and therefore spend considerable amounts of money in the long run are not America.

Can you just do economics and support American?

And what all this still has to do with anything?
>>
>>704592396
This point most definitely nullifies any case of it being a successful plan. It is HUMAN NATURE to stay in power when it is provided. Why would Karl Marx (creator of the Communist Manifesto) believe that someone would defy human nature to complete the system??
>>
>>704592495
I did refute it.

You're biased and out of touch with the real world.


You want the 1950s to come back, and we look forward to 2017.
>>
>>704591975
I'm not mad m8, I was only trying to get across your thick skull.. I was actually not shitposting and giving good reliable economic data.. but I can't do a thing you are incapable of interpretating it.
I guess I overestimated you.
>>
>>704592449
There's definitely a difference. Thus racist asshole is no libertarian.
>>
>>704592549
no but it kind of shows what an uneducated psuedo-intellectual you are, actually
>>
>>704575102
I hear from my Russian mother in law that communism is an unattainable it opiate that is impossible to achieve because of greed.
>>
>>704592562
>I was born and raised in Detroit. Poor as fuck.

Then you're a fucking dipshit if you think you have the right to look down on others because you found the opportunities and they didn't.

You're a turd, basically.
>>
>>704592736
I think she's referencing this:
>>704592396
>>
>>704592401
Cant you see I'm shitposting fuckwad.
To even consider race as a means to judge caracter, and not individual actions, is to be a collectivist asshole and therefore a racist libertarian is an oxymoron
>>
>>704592627
>You want the 1950s to come back, and we look forward to 2017.
Hurrr duurrrr. Shouting conservative at everything doesnt make it so. And AGAIN, really spaced out so you get it. That article......... from the FEE....... was ........ only a...... SUPPLEMENT to the.......second article... Do you get it now? Lemme guess, numbers are conservative now? Economic metrics are conservative now? Or you just going to totally ignore it and keep crying about how conservative the FEE is.
>>
>>704592633
>giving good reliable economic data.

no you actually literally claimed without irony that the Republicans, who are right-wing, and the Democrats, who are center-right wing, of being "LEFTISTS" (note caps.)

You're a sad sad retard.
>>
>>704592695
nope, try again
>>
>>704592893
shut up faggot

enjoy pretending your 20th century vision of the world isn't outdated and unsustainable
>>
>>704592929
yep actually it does

you are an illiterate

and I stopped replying seriously a few posts ago
>>
>>704592874
shut up and go write your paper OP
>>
>>704592905
I sent you the lins for the books that state the truth behind this, with good economic data behind it. I don't pull things out of my ass like you.

I know these books mean nothing to you since they dont have any pictures just letters and graphs. Hey, at least I tried
>>
>>704593185
You can't prove your stupid cringing point faggot

drop it
>>
>>704593134
I'm not OP
>>
>>704593185
>Democrats and Republicans
>are leftists

you are such a fucking retard

why faggot

why even
>>
>>704592986
It sure is fun arguing with retards. Is comical how you haven't backed up a single one your points but continue to spout off meaningless platitudes. Its okay I know I'm right, you know I'm right and your inability to actually address my points proves this. Now run along.
>>
>>704593243
you might as well be
>>
>>704593068
il·lit·er·ate
i(l)ˈlidərət/
adjective
1.
unable to read or write.
Wow I've been getting pretty lucky just randomly smacking this keyboard.
>>
>>704593306
I'm not making any points. You are.

The burden of proof is on you.
>>
>>704593306
>Now run along.
I was done with you about 10 minutes ago.

I'm just watching you get your ass handed since.
>>
>>704593232
It's not my point Illiterate cuck, It's a fact noted back in the fucking 50s.
You can't get around the shitposting because in the end you are an empty, dumb, illiterate waste of breathable air. We get it
>>
>>704592776
Kek

Most of the people I grew up with:

Didn't go to college even though we all got it for free, more or less

Sit around doing drugs while complaining about having to pass a drug test to get a decent job

Abuse food stamp system by pretending to be homeless

Sell food stamps at 50% value to buy drugs

Complain about lack of opportunity in life

Get jobs, dont show up, get fired, somehow still the company's fault

Don't pay taxes (I'm actually ok with this part) but then complain about Michigan roads

Have children even though condoms and birth control are free at literally hundreds of local clinics

Teach children how to be losers

Cycle repeats

Suburban ass pseudo intellectuals telling me how the lower classes are trying so hard and can't catch a break. Go live there for a while. I'm from this shit. For every one person who can't catch a break, there's 20 who aren't even looking. This is a very prosperous country. Shove your pay gap bullshit up your ass.
>>
>>704593401
>you know your wrong.
>your wrong
>your

kek
stupid pseudo-intellectual

at least use spell check
>>
>>704593410
Already have, you ignored them... twice because you had no actual rebuttal. Bye now.
>>
>>704593527
You've posted no "facts" here.

Stop lying.
>>
yo hi there, legion, сап аноны, как жизнь молодая
I'm russian and i can tell you one thing, people here fuckin hate the Soviet stuf. The idea is beautiful, but all my ancestors saw was hunger and fear of being reported of having the oppinion that differs from communism stuf
communism rulez, people suck fat cock
>>
>>704593556
>muh shitty anecdotes

aren't fact
>>
>>704593556
>Don't pay taxes (I'm actually ok with this part) but then complain about Michigan roads

right because Michigan has no sales tax laws
>>
It's fucking amusing to watch these leftists here using argumentative tactics that predates the Greeks.

Sophists is all I can see.

Attack the source not the argument, attack the person after attacking the source.. you are all amusing
>>
>>704593559
KEK
Thats the best you've got. Oh noes I didnt use you're instead of your on 4chan! How could I have ever made it past 2nd grade?! Point made anon I couldn't possibly be right about economics with such poor grammar.
>>
>>704593556
BUMPPPPPPP

the left is for the little people
I vote for the little people

KEEEEEEEEEK
>>
>>704593572
You posted nothing.

Like many pseudo-intellectual chickenshits, you can't back up your point so you post some vague link and claim victory.

You are actually what's wrong with this country.
>>
>>704593769
Lol providing me with a good laugh
>>
>>704593683
Keep believing this myth of the oppressed working class. Maybe my sample audience isn't large enough for you, but I absolutely witnessed every bit of what I wrote.

Retard
>>
>>704593866
>How could I have ever made it past 2nd grade?

Given your unstable mentally quirky hyper-defensive replies, I"m starting to wonder that myself.

You really should have stopped posting a long time ago in here js
>>
>>704593908
Yawn..... were you even reading my posts or did they trigger you too much?
>>
>>704593972
I don't believe anything

just saying no one cares about your cool stories, bro

nobody
>>
>>704593949
It's funny cause it's true
>>
>>704594005
pot meet kettle. Your point is? Im at work getting paid to respond to you fucktards. I could care less.
>>
>>704593739
The state income tax, fucking retard.
>>
>>704575102
dont do it u are to plain stupid what communism is about...

stupid capitalistig fuckhead i bet u dont understand the system we are currently living in ...
>>
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>>704583449
Jew detected
>>
>>704594052
No you've been such a childish unstable retard for the past 15 minutes I've given up.

You have this delusion that Democrats/Republicans are "all leftists" which is the epitome of cringe

and that's good enough to keep torturing you the rest of the thread :)
>>
>>704579485
>You've already lost by going into this biased as fuck. Predetermined mindsets do not belong in rational debate, and it's literally impossible to "win" if you won't accept the possibility of "losing"
I absolutely fucking love you for saying this.Please breed and bring more rational reasoning into this world.
>>
The problem with socialism is that socialists are generally stupid and socialism is really retarded.
>>
>>704594237
That wasnt me.....
>>
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>>704594149
>Im at work getting paid
>>
>>704594180

You said they don't pay taxes
you're lying
>>
>>704594292
might as well be

both of you retards blur into the same derp
>>
>>704575102

Communism is judaism, plain and simple. It's a one world government ruled by jewish people and other quasi intellectuals. It's not meant to "work" in real life because it's a bait & switch program meant to draw in weak and stupid people and con them into overthrowing legitimate governments and destroying civilized society in order to rebuild the world based upon principles of arrested development. People support communism know the least about everything and tend to be overly emotional to sociopathic, and almost always highly parasitic.
>>
>>704583584
Because you don't trade stress for money you stupid fuck. Nobody wants to buy stress. People trade money for VALUE.

The more value you produce, the more the market will pay you for that value.
>>
>>704594465
>Communism is judaism,

ALL HAIL KING TINFOIL
>>
>>704594502
>The more value you produce, the more the market will pay you for that value.

bullshit
>>
>>704594149
>getting paid to respond to you
What??
>>
>>704583271
No they collapsed from within through large government and corruption.
>>
>>704594281
the problem with circular logic is that circular logic is circular
>>
>>704594352
Clever, didnt see that joke coming.
>>
>>704594631
Anon was having a Hillary Seizure and thought he was in a Trump thread
>>
>>704594690
>>
>>704594442
>both of you retards blur into the same derp
ahhh good one! YOU'RE the one too stupid to respond to the right post but were the idiots.... makes sense.
Thread posts: 309
Thread images: 30



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