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OK atheists Prove to me that there isn't a deity

The stories and information posted here are artistic works of fiction and falsehood.
Only a fool would take anything posted here as fact.

Thread replies: 222
Thread images: 26

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OK atheists
Prove to me that there isn't a deity
>>
i dont have to prove it
because trying to prove it would imply there was one to begin with
>>
>>692485731
So you're saying one doesn't exist
Do you have proof?
>>
>>692485982
im not saying one does not exist
and im not saying one doesnt
im saying im too busy not giving a crap anyone
to care one way or the other
>>
Agnostic here. There is no "proof" one way or another. Just accept that you don't know and move on with life.
>>
>>692485493
Disease, Famine, Wars, Suicide
>>
>what is burden of proof

Logically, you should have to prove that there's a god first.
>>
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I can scientifically prove that there is no deity

>everything that exists must have a creator
>God doesn't have a creator

=>God doesn't exist

Of course you can deny all that by saying that axioms are basically dogmatic pieces of rules and data. We can't prove that logical axioms are actually true and we can't prove that God is dependent to those axioms.

You need to have an unchangeable/unquestionable starting point in order to prove anything. We don't have such a point.
>>
>>692485493
i cant prove it but you cant also
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>>692487009
Basically,

Nothing is true. Everything is permitted
>>
>>692487009
humans created god
>>
>>692485493
>Can you see it?
No
>Then it doesn't exist
Just like your dad OP, now go be retarded somewhere else.
>>
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>>692485493
one cannot provide evidence of a negative. Theists would need to provide evidence of a diety, but they dont. instead they just have blind faith based on a mythology.
>>
>>692485493

You can neither prove nor disproves something that exists beyond the laws of physics, for everything we know is based on physics and our understanding thereof.
>>
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What kind of God would make OP such a faggot?
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>>692488736
a gaylord?
>>
im bored of this thread
im out
>>
>>692486697
Stressing a species weeds out the chaff. Humans are not perfect. By far, and can only achieve a higher standard by destroying the garbage and focusing on the best.

If it wasn't for all those things. If, for example, humans were immortal, then they would have stopped advancing at whatever point they achieved that.

Think about it. Everything that makes us good and virtuous is a part of being in a stressful environment that breeds excellence. If there was no stress factor on the species, it would degrade to immobile, thoughtless masses of shit.
>>
>>692487009
That doesn't prove anything. One could just as well ask where the fuck all the energy in the universe came from. It was always there? Well, you can say the same about God.
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>>692485493
I CANT!
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>>692489237
This
>>
My favourite vape flavour isn't vegan there isn't a loving presence in this world
>>
The burden of proof is on the person making the extraordinary claim. You say there is a magical man in the sky.
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>>692489460
Everything had to come from somewhere and if there was nothing at the beginning then it's impossible for it to be created unless someone created it, like god
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>>692489435
Mine is. Rempen
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>>692485493
All scientific proofs work without a god. You are committing a burden of proof logical fallacy. The pressure isn't on athiests to prove there isnt a god, the pressure is on christians to prove he is needed.
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>>692489597
>being this autistic

did you pass high school

it isnt worth trying to argue
>>
>>692489847
If at the beginning of the universe when there was absolutely nothing how could the universe be created? Smart man
>>
>>692489682
You place a lot of faith in your ideology, just like Christians (who are, by far, not the only religious people on Earth).

On the subject of scientific proof. You simply do not know one way or another. The source of all the energy in the universe can not be explained in any coherent way by modern science. The best it can do is "It was always there" or "It was introduced from an even larger system"

Well, theists believe that larger system is an orderly God of some kind. There is no dichotomy between science and religion. The only perceivable dichotomies you see are ones you see from idiots who can't see the big picture and instead blindly focus on their internalized belief system.

Try to look past the armies of strawmen on either side to the core principles, and you will see that we only want the truth.
>>
>>692489847
>>692490057
You're missing the point entirely. Where did all the energy in the universe come from? Science has no coherent answer to the question. It's all blind faith, and some people see all the order and think it's absurd to think there isn't a larger system beyond the conceivable universe.
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>>692485493

4chan still exists. Either your god doesn't exist, or he's evil. Evil may be merely sardonic and lazy in this instance.

QED
>>
>>692489597
That's jumping to conclusions without evidence. Also it's a good of the gaps argument. I think religion has done nearly as much good as bad and I had both a bar mitzvah and a confirmation. I can speak ivrit and even read Aramaic. I know the tanakh backwards and forwards. I'm not an atheist by choice. I just found it all to be horse shit and there is no coming back from that realization.
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>What is burden of proof?

>>692489597
So who created god?
>>
>>692490449
This guys smart
>>692489847
You on the other hand are a fucking idiot and I would love to beat the shit out of you right now
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>>692490650
Humans are too simple minded to understand the idea of a god so I can't answer that
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>>692485493
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>>692490586
> I'm not an atheist by choice
Yes you are. An Atheist believes there is no God. So you have a belief system, hopefully based on something right? In your case it seems that it is entirely a rejection of theism, right? Well, you obviously haven't looked that hard at modern science if you are so sure there is no God. A more logical answer would be to be agnostic, since you are at best, not sure.

>I just found it all to be horse shit and there is no coming back from that realization.

What realization? That you don't know the origin of the universe anymore than anyone else, but you choose to have faith that there is no God, which according to your logic would be just as absurd as believing there is one, right?

Look past the religious dogma and just look for the truth, and you'll find that mankind really doesn't know that much relative to what there is to know.
>>
>>692490827
Too bad. You could have won a Noble Prize with that research.
>>
>>692487403
I can't see Africa right now, or anon, therefore both do not exist. Remove yourself in a harmful manner
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>>692489847
>HUUUURRRRRRRRRRRRR
>DURRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRR

That's the level of discourse that your kind of posts foster, you belligerent toad.
>>
>>692490827

"I'm retarded, so everyone else must be, too"
>>
>>692485493
It doesn't matter what I tell you, you will believe in god, because you want to.

Your thinking is not based on logic, therefore it's pointless to bring up arguments based on it.
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>>692491324
this
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>>692491259
>>692491324
You have no idea where the energy in the universe came from. You're placing your faith in an ideology just like the people you are trying to vilify and discredit.

That's unseemly.
>>
>>692485493
Becuz Jesus is a hipster fag?
>>
Just smoke DMT OP, see dieiteis yourself, and never be bothered by beta atheist faggots or religious faggots, because you would have seen in person how deep the rabbit hole goes.
>>
>>692491474
"Prove to me"
Burden of proof... logical fallacy
but logic seeme not to be your strong point, huh faggot?
>>
>>692489847
>>692491050
>>692491222
>>692491259
ITT knowitall name callers ur no better than a 5 year old mocking someone with an annoying voice
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>>692491737
are you faggot? Maybe reddit is your place
>>
>>692491737
Inb4 name calling, would be very surprised if someone could come up wit plausible answers
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>>692491220
The fact that Africa exists proves there is no god.
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>>692491680
What are you even talking about? Did you quote the wrong post? I never said "Prove to me" I made statements of fact, which hold true.

Again:
You have no idea where the energy in the universe came from. You're placing your faith in an ideology just like the people you are trying to vilify and discredit.

If you believe there is no God, then you must have some reason, right? Because the fact is that you don't know, and since you don't know, you should say you're agnostic, but instead you are choosing to say you believe there is no God.

What is that belief based on? Faith that there is no God? Well, how logical is that by your standards?
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>>692491835
Called it, I'm so distraught by ur comment anon it hurts so bad
>>
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An intelligent God would have never created a digestive system, or even a body for that matter.
>>
Every single one of you is a fag.
can you prove that africa exist?
Yes.
Can you prove that energy exist?
Yes.
now someone prove that either god or the big bang exist/Did exist.
Also agnostics are the biggest fags bc they don't have balls to say what they think or belive.
>>
>>692486697
This is not an argument against the possibility of Gods. What about Greek Gods, Hades? Gods can be evil.

>>692487009
This is the best argument IMO against Christianity. Christians will argue
>If the universe exists, then it must have had a creator
But they exclude Jesus from the prerequisite. Their premise would suggest that God had a creator, thus requiring more Gods. If you can exclude God from requiring a point of creation, why does the Universe require a "Y" to have created it? Akum's Razor.

>>692487403
Do you mean to say you feel a God's presence? Which God do you feel? Jesus Christ? Because if you were born in Egypt in 2100 BC you would feel the presence of Amum and several other ancient Egyptian dieties. If you were born in Iraq you might be singing praise to Allah. The only reason you believe in Jesus Christ is because you were born here, now.
>>
>>692485493
Which god? There's literally thousands to choose from.
This question is trying to play on the concept that "The absence of evidence is not the same as the evidence of absence".
To this I say HORSE SHIT! Extraordinary claims require extraordinary evidence.
Also, of every mystery ever solved, god or magic has never been the answer. And there has never been a single case where something we thought initially had a natural explanation actually turned out to be the work of god.
>>
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I think what most of you "Atheists" fail to understand is that God is the unborn and unknowable. The Beginning and The End. He is not the words on paper or on your screen or irrational sermons by some cult leader. He exists beyond all of that.

What many of you have a hang up on is words and rhetoric by other humans who may have an entirely failing idea of God.

You are becoming enraged, angered, and annoyed by humans and their symbols, not by God, who is beyond human understanding. In much the same way that a starry night full of the depths and wonders on cosmic scales might seem like a black canvas pricked with light to some.
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>>692492224
I belive you
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>>692492628
>I think what most of you "Atheists" fail to understand is that God is the unborn and unknowable. The Beginning and The End. He is not the words on paper or on your screen or irrational sermons by some cult leader. He exists beyond all of that.
And yet you only believe that because of words in a book.
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>>692486949
I'll accept your defeat.

You're no different than the fags from the Triggering who don't have to defend their arguments anymore. Just throw out catchphrases and buzzwords...won't work here
>>
>>692492628
I'm tired of grown adults playing make believe.
>>
>>692492224
Well, dude, if someone really feels that they don't know, what's wrong with saying they are agnostic? Isn't that a bit better than going into atheist-rage and claiming without a shadow of a doubt that God does not exist, when that is impossible to know? It seems entirely reasonable to say "I don't know" if someone really feels they don't.
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>>692489103
So what you're saying is that God, the being who makes no mistakes and is perfection, made something that wasn't perfect?
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>>692489460
The claim that there isn't a God is made by atheists. Buzzwords and catchphrases won't work here. You've admitted defeat that you can't prove he doesn't exist, thanks for that.
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>>692489682
And yet if I go to bat with a Muslim the burden of proof is now on me to prove that he doesn't exist. I don't just get to sit on my lazy fat ass and poke holes in everything they are saying without lifting a finger to do any of the work.

You can't prove he isn't real, thank you for your admission of defeat. Good day
>>
>>692492724
>And yet you only believe that because of words in a book.

You are entirely incorrect. I believe because of empirical observations and my understanding of modern science.

You're blinded by your ideology. I dare say there may even be some hatred there. You should look for the truth yourself, son.
>>
k
>>
>>692491971
it's obvious you are faggot OP
energy in the universe ≠deity

You believe in a deity: burden of proof is your problem.

and maybe define "energy of universe"
>>
>>692485493
thats not how it works, you're supposed to be the one proving there is one
>>
What kind of god would create niggers
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>>692485493
I'm an apathiest. It's not that I don't believe in a god, I just don't care enough to believe or not. The question of the existence of gods is neither meaningful nor relevant to my life.
>>
>>692485493
I can barely make sense of reality, who am I to say there is, or isn't a God?

I just prefer to not waste my time thinking about something so above my comprehension.
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>>692493174
Ok, I'll bite. What 'empirical observations' and 'modern science' have lead you to believe this?
>>
>>692493372
This, also I believe in God because if there is one I don't want to burn in hell and it's not that hard to just pray every once in a while
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>>692493285
No, we don't. We accept on faith. Prove there isn't one, otherwise your atheism is just another form of faith.
>>
>>692491680
the person who resorts to insults first has lost the argument.

Sorry bud, triggerwords and catchphrases won't work here. You can't prove shit, we accept your admission of defeat.
>>
>>692492947
Prove that ghosts don't exist
Prove that unicorns don't exist
Prove that leprachauns don't exist
Prove that gremlins don't exist
Prove that the skies arent full of invisable pizza floating around everywhere

You can't go around asking people to prove that every possibility of everything doesn't exist. Maybe I'm not atheist because certainly I accept that I cannot prove that the skies arent full of invisible pizza that cannot be sensed or smelt or felt or eaten, although I consider it to be absurd that anyone would believe that. Although if you believe that isn't the case, then I ask you to prove it to me. OTHERWISE, YOU LOSE! I ACCEPT YOUR DEFEAT. You cannot prove the pizzas arent in the sky, therefore you must accept that it is possible.

That's what religion feels like to me, and people trying to argue that gods may exist.
>>
>>692485493
>There is a God
Prove it
>The events in my holy book
So now we reach the real request, "prove my holy book is lying"

OP, please state your holy book(s) of choice so that we may begin dismantling them and disprove each part of the book that claims divine intervention or existence is at fault.
>>
>>692492874
I don't think you fucking get it, bro. Your field of view is entirely tunnel visioned on rejecting Baptist Protestant Christianity. Wake the fuck up man, there is a world of religious thought. Some with wildly different opinions on the nature of their gods.

Some people who believe in God, see past all the dogma and rhetoric and look for answers to major questions without being fed a pile of shit from someone claiming to know one way or the other.
>>
>>692493219
>>692493285
>>692491680
OP can't handle logic, but want to discuss "logically"
>>
>>692492865
Still fags.
Let me explain.
John thinks that god exist, and that is ok.
victor thinks that god Doesn't exist, and that is ok.
if john and victor shut the fuck up about that they belive the world wouldn't give a single fuck about it.
Kim doesn't know if there is a god, and doesn't care. That would be acceptable.
But if kim claims that she is right about not knowing, she is way worse than edgy faggots because she is not even trying.
>>692493311
This guy is a fine example of "I don't give a fuck" that is ok.
>>
That's not how this works. It is the responsibility of the theists to prove there is one.

You can claim that there is a planet of purple horned dragons a billion miles away. It isn't my responsibility to prove that claim is not trure.
>>
osama bin laden is the only true god
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>>692493219
once again, insults=admission of defeat.

thanks and good day
>>
>>692493219
I'm not OP, and your logic or reading comprehension seems to fail you.

The enrgy of the universe is just that. All the energy in the universe. Some of it condensed into matter in its many different states, some extremely energetic as electromagnetic radiation. An entire spectrum of spectrum of energy all over. Are you blind or just closing your eyes to the truth?
>>
>>692493285
you believe that there isn't one. you won't say it, but that's what you believe. you likewise cannot prove anything more than OP. You lose friend.
>>
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>>692493590
this
>>
you faggots right now
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ooDcstIm6Qc
>>
>>692486603
This is the only valid belief one can have
>>
there's nothing wrong with not having answers but it's important to side with the most logical side that has the best points so accusing people of burden of proof is just dragging the argument down and we're not gonna get anywhere
>>
>>692493699
fag op: no arguments and overchallenged with logic-> defeat... nigger
>>
>>692493511
The bible is in fact a more reliable document than atheists tend to believe. You cannot discredit it when so much is already widely agreed upon by historians. sorry fella.
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>>692494036
>>
>>692493492
No. We accept it on faith. That's what faith is. Because there's philosophical substance to the notion of an intelligent creator. Pizza in the sky is absurd.

We're not saying you have to believe with us. We're saying, "Prove that I shouldn't believe."
>>
>>692485493
In current climate of scientific discovery we know so little about our universe and what created it that there is no absolute proof that discredits or credits belief in a God. However with the sheer amount of different conceptions of God the statistical probablitablity of you workshipping the "right" God be it Abramic, Simulation, Aliens, every religion every invented, is ludicrous!

I rule out most traditional religions due to lack of evidence like Islam, Christianity, etc. But I don't discount the existence of a being who is a "God" to us. I just haven't seen any evidence or proof of one existing yet, until I do I can't believe in it well that'd be foolish.
>>
>>692493390
>>692493174
Still waiting.
>>
>>692493390
I'll give you a summary, since it's beyond the scope of this thread

>empirical observations
All the coherence and order in the universe. Life itself, and the evolution of the species.

>modern science
Modern science has no rational explanation for where all the energy in the universe came from. It's just as valid and makes more sense to me that there is a greater system beyond our conceivable (conceivable instead of observable, because we already know there is much beyond what we observe) universe, which some may call God.

I'm not preaching the rhetoric of any specific religion. As a religious scholar, I've synthesized the religious beliefs of dozens of contemporary and historical religions and taken what I see as the wheat and separated it from the chaff. I've done the same with our understanding of science and the material world.

I'm legitimately looking for the truth, unlike most of the people who are simply trying to validate some previously held internalized conviction based on blind rhetoric. Stand up and wake up and look for yourself. If you really do, you'll be happy that you did.
>>
Deities and gods are our arrogance and our inability to answer the mal-formed questions about life and existence. Some people would rather settle for a bullshit answer than admitting we just don't know.
And these deities always have some kind of human representatives speaking for them. Millions of human representatives all telling a somewhat different story.
Believe as I believe, or suffer the consequences. Sounds more like a scam to me.
>>
>>692493492
I do not get to sit on my lazy fat ass and make no effort to tear down any claim that everything Muslims say about their God is totally and utterly false. In order to do that I'd have to get off my high horse, dig a little, and do some research.

Your argument, and every argument of any atheist I've ever encountered, think you have to do no work. You're lazy, you use catchphrases like "burden of proof" and "self-fulfilling prophecy" the same way faggot use "racist" "bigot" and "homophobe" to avoid having to have their beliefs challenged.

You have beliefs, you won't state them because you can't prove them. You therefore lose. At least the Christians/Jews/Muslims are out there making a case for their beliefs. You poke holes in arguments and yet can prove nothing on your own.

That is why you lose, that is why I accept your defeat.
>>
>>692493748
energy≠deity
>>
We sound like a bunch tumblr bicuriousunicornaircraftcarrierkin with all these "deities" and "atheist" we're no better then the tumblr fags ITT
>>
>>692489237
energy wasn't there "before" the big bang because there is no such thing as "before the big bang". Energy as we know it started to exist with the big bang. Energy isn't eternal. OP's concept of god is.
>>
>>692493618
>It isn't my responsibility
Nah, I'll just sit here on my fat lazy ass and poke holes in everyone's argument and try to disprove it. Even though I don't believe it's real to begin with.

k bro
>>
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>>692489435
>>
Can God create a stone that he cannot lift.
If you can answer this, then God could have an ounce of possibility to exist.
>>
>>692494668
Big Bang is a theory
Yeah yeah Ik "lack of proof" "burden of proof"
>>
>>692494173
90% of religions where polytheist.
>>
>>692494668
You don't get it at all, and your response shows an obvious lack of understanding of our mdoern conception of the Big Bang.

The Big Bang was energetic on a magnitude that most can not even comprehend. All that energy cam from somewhere. Some believe the Big Bang is a cyclic system where the previous universe eventually collapses and created a Big Bang, forming a new one.

Well, none of them have a provable source for all of that energy. Do you understand now? Humans don't know nearly as much as you seem to think they do.
>>
>>692493981
No logic has been presented.

Just a bunch of atheists that can't be bothered from their Halo and Doritos date demanding that all these theists do all the work for them and prove that there is a god for them.

Sorry, doesn't work that way. If you're going to engage in debate you've got to do some work to be taken seriously.

You called me nigger so your claims are no longer valid anyway. Thanks for the resignation, I accept.
>>
>>692494875
In the bible it says that we cannot begin to understand the will and grasp of God and God created humans to be imperfect so whoever wrote that God can do anything may have been wrong we don't know
>>
>>692494897
yeah... like evolution is a theory
faggot has stuck his head in his ass
>>
>>692494259
I have recognized that anon was right, and I cannot begin to discredit him in anyway. Alas, from what catchphrase shall I chose today? I settle upon "bait" until a more opportune one arrives.
>>
>>692494436
>All the coherence and order in the universe. Life itself, and the evolution of the species.
Stars explode, galaxies crash into each other, black holes, 99.9999999999% of all planets devoid of life and absolutely pointless, cancer, birth defects, earthquakes, tornados etc on the one planet that DOES sustain life. The universe is a chaotic shambles.
>>
>>692495108
read
>>692492224
>>
>>692494308
>Pizza in the sky is absurd
So is believing in a specific God then. What sense do you actually have about believing in Jesus rather than Allah or Amun or Zeus or believing that are universe was created in a laboratory by gargantuans or in faith that the universe doesnt even exist and you are actually some abstract dream occuring within an organism you can't even imagine.

Having faith that the universe was created? Faith in a book? Feeling a presence? Again I go back to history and civilization. People believe in different Gods every few thousand years and you only believe in your God because you were born HERE NOW. If you were born here a few thousand years ago, or born in a different country whose main religion was diferent, your faith would be entirely different. I don't have any interest in putting faith in a religion knowing full well that my faith would be in a different religion if I grew up elsewhere. It seems to show a major fallacy in the whole idea of religion.. shows how it is made up by people and that religion are temporary and interchangeable. I have less of problem with someone saying "I believe in a God or Gods having created the world, but I am not religious because I have no way of knowing what the God may be like or if there are more than one". To me that is the only reasonable "faith".
>>
>>692494403
We would need to sit down and discuss this in a reasonable matter with time to spare, to really flesh this out, son, but I already typed you a summary with the points you asked about.

This isn't really the place for a discussion that could fill dozens of books, and has filled thousands, but I hope you'll look for the truth yourself.

>>692494436
>>
>>692495108
"prove that there is a god for them.

Sorry, doesn't work that way"

---> again: logical fallacy
burden of proof. You can't demand a logical discussion and be illogal faggot
>>
>>692494875
Sorry guy, God's existence doesn't rest on your puny "Catch-22" question. Try again!
>>
>>692485493
Deity?
Here's mine.
>>
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>>692485493
ITT: A massive shit eating cocklord of an OP acting like a fucking asshat over menial shit that ultimately doesn't matter.

Pic related, OP's last line of defence revealed.
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>>692494436
>>692495354
>Stand up and wake up and look for yourself. If you really do, you'll be happy that you did.
>but I hope you'll look for the truth yourself.
Could you not be so patronising? You're assuming I'm some retard who hasnt given the concept of God a single thought
>>
>>692485493

no can do - but if you prove to me that there is a deity, i'll give you my life savings.
>>
>>692495309
>The universe is a chaotic shambles.

And yet you're here talking to a million people from all over the world, connected with invisible energy, playing on tools you could not possibly make on your own and likely do not completely understand all about them.

The universe is very orderly, and life is an extreme concentration of that order with the capacity to be refined further.
>>
>>692487224
In that case, God doesn't qualify as a deity.
>>
>>692495657
Take it how you will, man, I'm trying to be straight with you.
>>
I believe the fairies did it. Since there is no burden of proof you're just going to have to prove me wrong.
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>>692495367
Again: insults = you've lost the argument.

Catchphrases and buzzwords won't fly here. Try actually disproving anything. You can't.

Like the homos and the femnazis, you've become lazy and rely on buzzwords and think you don't have to defend yourself.

If you want to not believe a word I say, then fine, but if you engage in debate, you have to offer us something to go on. You can't just sit there and say "you're wrong" while I do all the talking. Sorry it's not so easy!
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>>692485493

if OP has even a cursory understanding of the science he's criticizing i'll eat my hat. why do people form opinions on things that they don't understand? it's like some kind of human race bug
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>>692494036
The king James Bible I assume?

It's actually well known for having a number of flaws, contradictions, moral ambiguities. It is also not a single book but rather several books/scrolls that have been combined into a single text. Most, if not all, of these books trace back to human authors and many of those are taken from ancient Judaism. There is also a number of stories, written by the disciples of Jesus Christ which either conflict with each other entirely (the two conflicting stories of his birth) or can be argued to have been mistranslated or having had "artistic liberties" taken or even just having the wrong impression given to those observing the situation.
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>>692495906

here's the thing - you're asking for proof when proof doesn't exist. the more important question is, what reason do you have to believe there's a diety?
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>>692485493
So what proof do you have that god exists? Check m8.

Also, don't make a fool of yourself by saying the bible is proof. It's not. It's been modified hundreds of times to fit the agendas of various people and organizations in power. It's not the word of god when the only way it's passed around and reproduced is through people.
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>>692495759
>Doesnt address any points presented and assumes God created single celled life forms so they could one day evolve and shitpost on 4chn.
>>
>>692494897
>>692495093

like I said in my original post.

Science =/= truth

we make claims based on axioms (pieces of data/rules that everyone agrees to be true)
Noone even tries to prove the validity of these axioms, because in order to prove those axioms one would need even more axioms.

Nothing is "provable". We prove things by accepting dogmatic pieces of information.

We use the word "prove" in the scientific sense, meaning we agree that all the scientific axioms are true, and make claims based on them.

IF one agrees that everything must have a creator, then God, being a thing, must have a creator as well. Then the concept of God that has no creators is FALSE.

IF one agrees that things such as energy exist forever, that they are eternal. It means that they were never created. God is the creator of all.
If there is something that isn't created, than something that creates all can't exist.

AGAIN, reality isn't as simple as we perceive it. Logic is a human invention. When you are a god you don't really need to care about Logic.
Still, I can scientifically "prove" it's lack of existence.
>>
>>692496047
HURR DURR YOU'RE GOING TO HELL
>>
>>692495947
>if OP has even a cursory understanding of the science he's criticizing

This is atheists biggest problem to me. You have the almost pathological assumption that theists don't have the same exact knowledge that you have. Like it literally almost kills you to hold for a second that someone might have a different opinion formed than yours. Mindblowing.
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>>692485493
In order for your challenge to even be possible, you must present evidence to suggest there is a deity. As no evidence has ever been brought forth to suggest there is one, proving the non-existence of something that has never been shown in any way to exist in the first place is pointless.
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>>692495947
OP didn't criticize any science. It sounds like you're fighting your very own straw-man in your mind to say something like that. He just asked atheists to prove something that they can not prove, which obviously rustles some of their jimmies.
>>
All of this bait...
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>>692496277
Just look around you anon, look at the intricacy of it all and come back and tell me a creator isn't responsible for that!
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>>692496185
When you think that you have actually had a somewhat intelligent conversation on /b/ and someone calls another person a retard and ur back at square one
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>>692496024
Yep, everything you say is true. And in fact scholars have dealt with and reconciled each of the things you've mentioned.

Case in point: conflicting stories often lend credibility to a historical event as each person has a slightly different view. If it were biased or a hoax, you would have several authors from the exact same date in time with the exact same written account, indicating some sort of conspiracy. The fact that several authors wrote at different times and their stories only have slight details contradicting actually lends credibility, at least as far as the gospels of Jesus Christ are concerned.

That's just one example though. Care to try again?
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>>692485493
why i don't give a shit what you think
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>>692496125
You're being hardheaded on purpose. Think for yourself, m8. If you don't understand that the universe is extremely orderly, then you can just throw out any scientific knowledge you think you have since it's "chaos". If you really believe that you need to think on that some more, son.
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>>692485493
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qmU5fpVkUQs
>>
>>692485493
Prove that a deity DOES exist. Its impossible to prove that something that has never existed doesn't exist, but if you believe something does exist, you should have your own proof.

>inb4 bible

>inb4 I HAVE FAITH!!
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>>692496635
> posts spongebob cancer
kek... this new
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>>692496185
HURRR DURR IM AN IDIOT SO I HAVE TO INSULT OTHERS TO HIDE THE FACT I HAVE NOTHING INTELLIGENT TO ADD TO THE CONVERSATION
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>>692496047
Proof is all around us. The proof is in the pudding, you may say. You may ignore it if you wish!

And no, I would never accuse anyone of going to hell.
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>>692496883
>takes pride on spending long amounts of time on an Internet site
I don't know how to feel about this
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>>692496185
I cannot say for certain whether anyone is. Nor would I want them to if hell existed. It is not my choice and I would never say such a thing.
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>>692496889
I do it for (You)
and your butthurt
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>>692497092
No u
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>>692496799
>Continues to not address any points and continues to be a patronising dick head.
If you're such a genius this should be easy for you.
>>
>>692497164
no u
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>>692485493
it sounds unlikely that there is one. decide for yourself
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>>692497201
What are you even talking about? You're completely in your own little world. What points? Seriously.
>>
>>692494514
How does one prove non existence? You're shirking my question. If you can't prove to me the skies arent full of undetectable pizza, then I can't prove to you that their isnt an undetectable GOD which exists outside of the realm of our universe. I'm not really asking for you to prove the existence of God though, anybody who asks the other for proof should not even be in the discussion. I'm saying Atheists and Theists dont need to prove the existence or nonexistence. But I think there are some good arguments on the atheist side that theists dont have good answers for.

>Akum's Razor. Why does the Universe need to have a creator? If the Universe must have a creator, why doesn't the creator have its own creator?
>Time and Place. If you believe in a religion (not just a God, but follow a specific religious book such as the bible) how do you answer the temporary and geographic nature of religions? If you were born 3000 years ago you would believe in a different religion entirely. If you were born in a different part of the world you would have completely different religious convictions and you would be just as certain of them. Why do you believe in Jesus and not Zeus? Why not Allah or Amun?
>>>692494875 This is a simple logical fallacy which Christians always ignore. They believe in an all-powerful, all-knowing god, yet "all-powerful" is paradoxical. It's a concept which poeple have made up that can't actually exist. Something that is all-powerful would be able to create a stone so heavy that nothing could lift it (including the God itself) thus limiting its own power. Nobody can answer this, the question seems absurd, but thats only because claiming that something is all-powerful is absurd. Nothing can truely be all-powerful.


I think a lot of 'by the book' religious people don't actually bother to answer to these arguments and instead go to "prove he doesnt exist!" instead of answering the simple claims athiests make about having faith despite this
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>>692485493
If god exists. He/she would never allow the createtion of a retard like you.
>>
>>692485493
>OK atheists
>Prove to me that there isn't a deity

That's not how it works. The burden of proof is on people making the claim for the existence of something.
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>>692497490
Oh yeah I forgot this thread was bait
>>
>createtion
Oh deity my sides
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>>692496621
That's just special pleading. The vastness of the Universe isn't evidence for a deity. Nor is the existence or intricacy of life.
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>>692497330
>Stars explode, galaxies crash into each other, black holes, 99.9999999999% of all planets devoid of life and absolutely pointless, cancer, birth defects, earthquakes, tornados etc on the one planet that DOES sustain life.
Does this serious scream 'intelligent design' to you?
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>>692490650
Nothing created God and Anti-God, together they are nothing, but when not together, they can be anything.
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>>692497416
God created humans to be imperfect so it's possible they mis represented what God was
>>
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A female orgasm takes 20 minutes.

A male orgasm takes 2.

WHAT MORE PROOF DO YOU NEED THAT THERE IS NO GOD?!?
>>
>>692497416
>But I think there are some good arguments on the atheist side that theists dont have good answers for.

That's fair, but having a dug a little into the atheists side of things myself, you get to a certain point where even atheists have to admit that they don't actually know (they won't admit or acknowledge this part). And that's my whole point, Atheists claim to know for sure, when they don't.

Saying that Christians do the exact same thing doesn't refute my point either.

I won't even begin to debate with you on such a ridiculous claims as your pizzas which is so self-evidently not true as to not require argument, anymore than I need to argue with you that the sun is real. Your fault lies in the fact that you think our 5 senses are perfect and the end all be all of proof. As if someone big enough to create it couldn't exist beyond our 5 senses.

I will never prove a single shred of God's existence to you as it is already available to you in abundance. I will always argue that belief in any sort of deity is way more credible than zealous atheists make it appear.
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>>692498009
Futhermore all the stories in the bible come from the fact that we are not perfect, God sends his son down to die for are imperfections, Adam was given free will so he could sin and give us the ability to love
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>>692486603
Correct, but Agnosticism is simply a knowledge claim. It doesn't say whether you believe there are god (s), just that you can't know for certain.
You eventually adopt a belief position that's either theist (whatever flavor you might prefer) or atheist.
And since you've already made the knowledge claim, you're more likely an atheist, because you usually assume when there is no evidence that something happened/exists, it didn't happen/exist.
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>>692497490
Oh look, another lazy atheist who can't be bothered from his Halo and Mountain Dew date.

"Well if someone won't get off their ass and prove this to me then it must not be true! Hmmph!"
>>
because, 9gag exist.
>>
>>692486949
>>692492754
Are you saying you cannot prove a god exists? I'll accept your defeat.

If you cannot prove your particular god exists, then fear not my friend, no one can prove their god exists - because all the evidence is either lousy or non-existent. And, obviously you're not alone in believing in things without evidence.
>>
Religious arguments are cancer, once another person becomes defensive, there is no point anymore... they will not listen anymore.

fuck this thread
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>>692496673
Slight details such as the entire setting being different? Those who were greeted by an angel being vastly different as were their reactions? Or how about a genocide against children that was not recorded in any measure other than in the Biblical texts themselves? You almost make me want to put effort into this but I got to be somewhere in a half hour so I'll ask you to take up your world views with someone who spends a great deal of his time pursuing such scholarly debates

https://www.youtube.com/user/TheAtheistVoice
>>
>>692498645
Not the guy you posted to, but think of it like this:
I claim that there is an invisible, intangible, pterodactyl on my shoulder.
I tell you to prove to me it doesn't exist.
I'm obviously lying to you, so this should be easy to accomplish.
How would you go about doing it?
>>
>>692490983
Use of obfuscation and relativism won't further your case here lad. I'm not impressed.

Just simply make a decent case for god with some good evidence, and I'll consider whether or not I believe in it.

We can know that faith is believing in something without evidence, so you either know their is a god or you believe there is a god and you may have faith that god exists.

We can KNOW there is no god, because belief and faith is required and demanded in that religion.
>>
>>692498425
I am the one you replied to and thats the point I'm trying to make. Everyone knows you cannot prove the existence or lack of existence of a god though I do think that Atheists belief in a lack of God is slightly better than believing in a God having created the universe because it is a simpler solution to the issue (Akum's razor). Though I strongly believe the all-knowing all-powerful Christian God does not exist because of the arguments I posed eariler. I believe if there were a God we would know nothing about it, nor would it expect us to know about it or care whether we praised it or spited it. I'm not an atheist because I cannot prove a God does not exist, but to me its the same as being agnostic about their being undetectable pizzas in the sky. I cannot say for certain they do not exist. And I really do not think the premise is much more absurd than the premise of a God
>>
>>692497841
Yes, dude, what do you want, some candyland dreamworld straight out of the imagination of a toddler because that's what a Hollywood artist imprinted in them?

It all has a purpose. Humans are being refined. Refinement takes stress on the system, or there would be no incentive to advance.

Look, humans as they are now, are far from their potential. What makes you think creation is over? This is all a work in progress, and your childish complaints aren't even a footnote in the history of mankind in that blessed future of more perfected beings striving to be good co-creators.
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>>692499080
>Are you saying you cannot prove a god exists?
Far from it in fact! The proof is literally all around you, there is plenty of evidence. You may draw any conclusion you wish or like! I need not prove to you for instance that the sun is real, you may believe...or not! :)

>because all the evidence is either lousy or non-existent

This a common atheist fallacy. I could provide all the evidence in the world to you that OJ did it, you do not in turn get to say there is none. You do not by any means have to accept it, but you do not get to make the claim "there is none" you see? It just isn't true :)

Wouldn't you know it, a million atheists using the phrase "burden of proof" has actually never disproven anything! Go figure! :)

Sorry you were so badly mistaken about my defeat, would you like to try again?
>>
Knowledge: evidence based. Yes we can know that 2 + 2 = 4 because it is reliably demonstrated easily.

Belief and faith: we can know nothing that requires belief, because faith is required. Faith is required without evidence, because evidence for god is either lousy or non-existent.

Any assertion of an idea without evidence can be dismissed without evidence.
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>>692499785
>We can KNOW there is no god

You can not. The very idea that you can is completely absurd. And if you can't see how absurd it is, then you're probably too feeble-minded or blinded with your ideology to see the truth.
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>>692499785
All you're saying is that you don't believe in a specific deity. You're just arguing against a specific religion, not the existence of God.

And you're insane if you think you KNOW there is no god because that does not reasonably follow from anything. It's just some random blind belief you have.
>>
>>692499182
>You almost make me want to put effort into this
Ahhh, if only more atheists would, then more would realize the absurdity of what they've been saying for so long.

As far as your claim to the setting, not nearly specific enough for me to comment. But your mere other two claims are weak, at best. I will in fact put effort into your claims though and do a little digging, because that's how I get my beliefs. Not just, you know, throwing catchphrases out there to atheists. Thank you for pointing me in a good direction, I'm interested to see what I learn.
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>>692485493
>>
>>692499500
Simple! Mind if I ask you a series of questins?

Are you the only one that believes there is a pterodactyl on your shoulder?
>>
>>692500242
>Far from it in fact! The proof is literally all around you, there is plenty of evidence. You may draw any conclusion you wish or like! I need not prove to you for instance that the sun is real, you may believe...or not! :)

Just because things exist doesn't mean a deity created them. That was not an argument. If you think it was, then it was a lousy one.

As far as burden of proof goes, yes it disproves a great deal.

You're making a claim that a deity exists. Show some evidence to back your claim, or we simply dismiss the claim.

If I say I have a flying car, will you believe me? If I say I have a flying car that will make your soul live to eternity, and if you don't believe it you're going to burn in conscious torment for eternity, then will you believe it?

The more claims I make without evidence, the further from truth we get.

I accept your defeat, and have a great day.
>>
>>692500023
Kek I love that you came in here claiming the high ground because of science and your only response is basically 'god works in mysterious ways'. YOU were the one that claimed the universe was orderly and coherent. Then when I point out all the ways it's not you just write back 'Of course it's not perfect, why would God make it perfect'? You have absolutely no science backing up your claims and are clearly guided by emotion and, perhaps, a fear of the chaos and death this life offers.
>>
>>692495888
Trips of truth.
>>
>>692501022
Not the other guy but I am interested in this conversation. I love that your first question implies
>other people believe in my religion, therefore its more likely that its true!

this is gunna be good. Also, he's not the only one. I actually do believe he in fact has an invisable pterodactlyl on his shoulder. Ive seen pictures of fossils and know that pterodactyls do or at least did in fact exist. If they did exist, there is a chance that they still might
>>
>>692501022
I don't know, maybe.
I can't tell you what everyone believes.
>>
>>692500311
There are things we can know, and there are things we cannot know.

We can know that the bible was written by men. We can know that the claims in it are outrageous and without proof.

The bible makes scientific claims about the nature of the world, the age of the world, the nature of death and physiology.

There are many claims in the bible that are later proven to be wrong by science. We can know that if the vast majority of biblical claims are wrong, then the the deity is not so much a deity- He is not omnipotent, or omniscient.
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>>692485493
logical fallacy : burden of proof.
/thread
>>
So your God hides in the gaps? Used to be that the sun rising was "proof".
>>
>>692499838
>I believe if there were a God we would know nothing about it, nor would it expect us to know about it or care whether we praised it or spited it.

I can't even begin to follow your way of thinking. I'm sorry, I did try. I honestly don't know what to say other than the reasons you feel strongly about God existing do have the same effect on me.

Believe it or not, I am very much not a troll but believe the existence of God to be an absolutely critical one to my existence. I will investigate any and every angle I hear of, why would I want to waste my time believing in something that isn't real?

If any atheist can convince me otherwise, I'm willing to listen. As for me, I like to go to the source and investigate the only physical proof we have, which are the texts of the bible. They are infinitely more reliable than any other religious text and suffice to say I'm satisfied. If you are not then you are free to do as you wish.

However do not claim that my beliefs are founded on an absurd belief in a spirit in the sky that I made up one day. 95% of 4chan won't be able to maturely respond to this. I'm expecting more from you.
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>>692501565
Upon examination of the bible, we can know that it was written by men for men.
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>>692485493
Dear God, please make op die in a fire right now.

You still alive? Proof of no God.
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>>692501266
Dubs of confirmation. The fairies did it.
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>>692501442
Love it! You avoided the question, I think I've proved my point friend :)

If in this analogy, the pterodactyl is Christianity, then the correct answer is "Yes, millions of people do!"

The next question I would ask would be, "did this belief spring up overnight, or have people believed this for a long time?"
>>
Agnosticism is the only logical position to this question. I can never know if there is or there is not. Live your life, think of the material consequences and have a blast.
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>>692485493
Burden of proof in the same way something that cannot be proved doesn't exist until you can prove it.

So I've never really been bothered about the existence of a god.
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>>692502142
People used to believe sickness was caused by demon's and they'd drill holes in heads to let them out.
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>>692501429
>I love that your first question implies
Haha, I think I proved my point!

I said a "series of questions" so right away your jump to conclusions casts discredit on any point you are trying to make.

Also your eagerness to jump in and discredit my claims when I haven't even begun I think shows more than a little bias! Thanks for the help guy! :)

>Also, he's not the only one. I actually do believe he in fact has an invisable pterodactlyl on his shoulder.

Good effort! The correct answer (assuming he meant the analogy to be pterodactyl = Christianity) is that millions of people do! See how this works? Avoiding the question only helps my cause! :)

How long have people believed this? Is this some new fad that sprang up overnight? Sure sounds like it to me...
>>
>>692501246
No, you're wrong. The universe is fine, it's your feeble perceptions that are flawed, but you will be long dead before God's creation is finished, so you needn't worry about that, you pretentious fool.

You haven't made any valid points in any way. All you are doing is clinging to this idea of a Baptist, protestant, Christian God that you've made into a strawman.

Fuck you, you completely tunnel visioned troglodyte. Fight your strawmen all you want. I was trying to talk to a you like a man, but obviously you're just a kid.
>>
>>692501565
I never said anything about the Bible. You've obviously got some hangup with it though.
>>
>>692501768
We can look all around us and see how belief in eternity is damaging to society.

We can look for evidence of the exodus story, and find nothing.

We can look and see if humans can survive their death, and can find no evidence to support that biblical claim.

We can check if stars can fall from the skies as mentioned in so many places in the bible that it will happen, and we can see that it is absolutely impossible for this to happen. It's an absurd claim.

We can see over 50 failed prophesies in the old and new testament. http://faithskeptic.50megs.com/prophecies.htm

Demascus never fell, it only grew larger.

We can know that the hindu religion is 1500 years older.

We can know that the jews were never enslaved in Egypt, based upon evidence.

We can know that once a person is cold and dead and rigor mortis has set in after 3 hours, that it is irreversible.
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you cant prove definitively that there isnt one. but i definitely know there isnt a christian god.
>>
>>692502393
Very true!

I can't help but notice you chose to use the words "used to"...did that belief die out at some point? Or do millions of people still believe that today?
>>
>>692501831
kek

Whatever you ask for you shall receive.
Matthew 21:22
Mark 11:24
>>
All you dumb as fuck, pretentious little teenage atheists need to understand that Southern Baptist isn't the only religion. They're more of a fucking cult than anything else. Wake up, dumbfucks. You're fighting a strawman, easy mode, and never dreaming to touch the root of the matter because apparently you've failed to realize the difference between dogma and understanding.
>>
>>692502142
I didn't avoid the question, I answered it to the best of my ability.
And who said anything about Christianity?
We're just treating the pterodactyl as a claim for you to refute, and one should be able to do easily.

And to answer your question, all I can account for are my own thoughts, so I started believing this approximately 20 minutes ago. I'm unsure of when others believed in this.
>>
>>692502682
Well, what deity were you referring to?
>>
>>692485493
that's not what atheists claim
you might want to ask to an anti-theist
>>
>>692502720
1) Your opinion only
2) thanks I'll look into it
4) You fail to mention the many that did come true, how sad
8) also something for me to look into, thanks!
3 &9) the whole crux of the bible rests on these, they are pretty important!
>>
>>692485493
Fuck your troll bait
I came here for that image fucker
>>
>>692502724
>Welcome to the family
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>>692485493
Don't believe in a deity but instead and endless pool of consciousness in which we go back too once our physical body ends, nothing happens because of a diety and it's decisions things just happen. Helps me understand how the world can be so fucked up everything is just RNG on a massive scale.
>>
>>692502891
Any pretentious teenage atheist has an advantage over a person with faith or a belief system.

This is one case where the angsty teen has an advantage over the religious person.
>>
>ITT: Faggots who don't understand that agnosticism is the only way.
>>
>>692501768
What I meant by the part you greentexted was that if there was a creator for the universe we would not be able to determine anything concrete about the creator. Organized religion like Christianity or historical religions like Greek Gods or the Egyptian Gods are very much fantasy. In the beginning religions used God's that lived on the tops of mountains, but once mountains were climbed and seas were crossed people claimed God's lived in the skies or the heavens. Religion has moved towards abstraction, as we unravel more about the universe. As anon said, people used to claim God made the sun rise each morning by physically moving it through our sky. The point I was trying to make though is if you follow a book that claims to have stories involving the creators of the universe then you are stepping into fantasy world. Unless you believe that the creator zips into our universe and speaks to people like the "Satanic Toaster Lady". And if you can't know your creator or know why or what may follow in your death, then why worry about it? Why believe at all or be firmly in belief that one can't exist?

The Bible is not "infinitely more reliable than any other religious text". Earth is 45 million years old, the bible is off by 45.999 million years in that regard. Do you believe literally in Genesis and Adam and Eve? Even the time frame of the great flood is historically off by about 5000 years with the nearest major world flooding event.

And as to >my beliefs are founded on an absurd belief in a spirit in the sky that I made up one day. 95% of 4chan won't be able to maturely respond to this. I'm expecting more from you.

It doesnt matter who made it up, or how many people believe in a book, that doesnt make it any more right. When you look at the history of religions in civilization they were used as tools to control people, religion and mysticism meant power in the early days and shamans were the original scam artists. Y should modern religion be any dif?
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