>>591167237 While China does have superiority in numbers, the fact of the matter is that these are a peopke who can't make dinner plates without breaking if you breathe on them, and are incapable of making dog food that doesn't kill the fucking dog. They are so hungry, they eat human fetuses. Also, the people of China have suffered under the oppressive heel of communism for over half a century. There is no passion and true national spirit there. America would win while giggling. Bonus points if we flout the UN as we should have been doing all along since its inception.
>>591169224 I have your ignorance and underestimation. Deception will fuck you. If we could defend Korea well enough with our 3rd world technology back in the day against most of the western world then we would fucking destroy you with modern technology along with countless legions of elite soldiers. Numbers is nothing without strategy and training, look at the wars between Persians and Greeks. Today with the superior training and strategy of the Chinese military, it can easily destroy foreign forces.
>>591169808 You are afraid of us because people like you keep talkingn about us wanting to invade you, and wars between our countries, which is very unlikely on China's part. You spout aggression and rage simply because of your fears and insecurities.
>>591167237 No one ever lists goals in these threads. War is just a way of achieving political goals.
If China simply wants to drag the USA into another war it can't afford to cripple it economically then yes, China could achieve that goal. If China wants to secure all us soil with a prolonged occupation then no, China doesn't have a chance.
>>591170317 Population of China: 1.4billion Population of America: 330 Million No shit they have more STEM graduates. The question is, how many of those graduates then move to the US to pursue carreers.
What the fuck did you just fucking say about me, you little bitch? I’ll have you know I graduated top of my class in the Navy Seals, and I’ve been involved in numerous secret raids on Al-Quaeda, and I have over 300 confirmed kills. I am trained in gorilla warfare and I’m the top sniper in the entire US armed forces. You are nothing to me but just another target. I will wipe you the fuck out with precision the likes of which has never been seen before on this Earth, mark my fucking words. You think you can get away with saying that shit to me over the Internet? Think again, fucker. As we speak I am contacting my secret network of spies across the USA and your IP is being traced right now so you better prepare for the storm, maggot. The storm that wipes out the pathetic little thing you call your life. You’re fucking dead, kid. I can be anywhere, anytime, and I can kill you in over seven hundred ways, and that’s just with my bare hands. Not only am I extensively trained in unarmed combat, but I have access to the entire arsenal of the United States Marine Corps and I will use it to its full extent to wipe your miserable ass off the face of the continent, you little shit. If only you could have known what unholy retribution your little “clever” comment was about to bring down upon you, maybe you would have held your fucking tongue. But you couldn’t, you didn’t, and now you’re paying the price, you goddamn idiot. I will shit fury all over you and you will drown in it. You’re fucking dead, kiddo
it would be a war that would last decades. i'm assuming WMD are a no go. china couldn't possibly get to the states. on the otherhand the us can't invade china. the country is just to big and to wild. lots of jungle, and just look how that went during the pacific war. also the chineese army are pretty danm big, they could just stay on the offensive. there'd be no victors
>>591170402 You mistake me, Hop-sing. I know you pasty little skeletons don't have the fuel, will, skill or technology to imagine an invasion. If you are lucky, Russia will use you cavemen as human shields when they invade us.
>>591168375 Yamamoto stated "behind every blade of grass is a American with a gun" Guess what your guns are being restricted you stupid tool. That does not apply now because does every american have military grade weapons now???? Nope. Thank you Anti Gun Fascists
The point is we're clearly capable of graduating 500,000 engineers and physicists a year, because we do it with lawyers... but that's not what americans value anymore.
there has been a steep decline in foreign talent coming and staying here in the last decade or so, as the rest of the world's technological infrastructure catches up to and surpasses ours. you don't really think we're still #1 do you? our internet backbone is shitty. our factories aren't upgraded. our workforce is lazy. China and India and so on are launching people into space. you don't do that with 3rd world technological infrastructure.
With nuclear weapon - probably none. For now USA- China is the only way to nuclear apocalipsys. Even though it is very unlikely to happen ever. With conventional only no country can win vs USA at all-out war. But if you count EU as 1 country they will win. China in this case would probably would not be even close to USA borders ever.
If you crush China's major cities on their coastline, you basically force them into the mountains, and it becomes Iraq 2: China with Chinese people doing hit and run. If the US employs a scorched earth policy, and just flatten and burn everything in the jungle and mountains (As is the purpose of the thread) China as we know it will cease to exist, and the US would be victorious.
>>591169721 Tell that to World War 2 Germany. You bloody knuckle dragger. Numbers wins wars plain and simple. the Russians proved that for every 1 tank made by Germany the Russians build 4. Obviously you need to stay playing you DD game
>>591171490 See, here's the thing with Vietnam. First off, in the interest of objectivity, you're not wrong. However, you miss the fact that like the Korean war, and in Clinton's idiotic eastern european skirmishes throughout the 90s, America made the pathetic mistake of taking UN convention seriously. We fought like cunts, even moreso in Korea. General Patton in fact tried to arrest Truman when he returned. But in both those cases, we were not in a war for survival. Should China invade the US(or more likely, be Russia's good little lapdogs in an invasion), it would be a fight for survival, and you would see a USA closer to it's days when we were a true nation, and not some shit hell district of a fantasy global government.
>>591170024 China is building a larger submarine fleet on the principals that "we can't kill them all when we run out of missiles". China isn't exactly know for its military prowess. It just doesn't give a fuck about human life, and that makes it dangerous
>>591172218 Are you this stupid? China owns most of the US debt. If America cuts ties they basically default. Their credit rating becomes even more shit then it already is, suddenly noone wants to do trade with the US.
You people think china relies on the US? It's the other way around.
>>591171452 don't think it would be that easy... should the chineese just cease to fight because they lost their mayor cities. scorching so much land ain't easy mate. they can shot down airplanes, make airstrips on in the inland out of range from the amerocan navy. there are many more aspects to war...
>>591170980 There are more firearms in America then people. Seriously in sitting in a room with three. It's not a stereotype to say we own a lot of guns. It's a fact. Any invading country would be met with heavy civilian resistance
>>591170760 lol wannabe. For a start SEALs do not have operational control over "spies" they are merely operators so you proved you are a fake just in that small sentence. Plus NO navy SEAL has 300 kills since Vietnam otherwise you would have been added to the wall. But your not. the statment of " your ip is being traced" you mean pinged right? that anyone can do with google. Plus MAKE UP YOUR MIND! ARE YOU A NAVY SEAL OR MARINE YOU STUPID LIMP DICKED RETARD!
If you are for real and everyone knows your full of Shit I GIVE YOU 7 DAYS TO COME HERE TO THIS ADDRESS. IF YOU DONT YOUR FULL OF SHIT! Plus learn to mask your IP address or use a proxy you stupid ape
>>591167237 basically a stalemate. China lacks the airforce and navy to really leave their mainland, and they are locked in my many geographic borders. However it would be incredibly expensive and difficult to hold any land in china. They have overwhelming numbers which is one of the biggest factors in a land battle.
There's almost no scenario here where the PRC comes out on top. Because of the 7th fleet our response capabilities would be devastating. American cyber warfare and logistics is simply unbeatable considering the resources we have at our disposal. Trying to match america in a war would break the PRC's back and they'd have uprisings within months.
>>591175003 >Eh, anybody can do what America does with the same resources. Its not that hard. OK so then why didn't your country have this land. People gtfo of Europe to come here dispite the long voyage and took it from the native Americans. They worked for the land.
>>591172933 And in WW2, we were behind in technology when the war started, that's not the case here.
When we went after Iraq, Iraq wen't from the 4th largest army in the world to the 2nd largest army in Iraq in 72 hours. When it was over the "big numbers" guys lost 100,000 guys killed/injured compared to about a thousand of the high tech guys.
>>591167237 Im reading all of these replies and not one is an actual claculated answer that just lays down facts. China has the largest population in the world, largest economy, and largest military. The united states has the largest GDP, the most advanced/powerful weapons on the face of the earth, and a literally manufactured infrastructure meant for home front battles(Highways made for landing planes on). If china is the aggressor than they will no doubt lose on American Soil, if USA is aggressor they would no doubt lose on Chinese soil. They are literally equal.
>>591172642 With the amount of money that is owed to china by the US, if the US chose to default as a result of "war were declared" the global economy would choose the victor based on who got fucked by not repaying loans.
They would both lose you moron. China doesn't have the fighting power to completely defeat the US 100%, and in fighting them the US would take a massive hit to the economy and eventually all its citizens would starve or move elsewhere. You failed
>>591167237 Daily reminder that darpas goal is to keep the US armed forces at least 10 years ahead (technologically)of any other millitary. Also >every American knows how to use a ar15 >chinks can only make iPhones
china,because its not a nation vs nation warfare it's a nation vs civilisation warfare 95% of the chinese are han chinese and believe they are direct descendants of yan huang(flame emperor), chinese will not change their life style depend on where they live, they will change surroundings into chinese, just look at san fransicso,vancouvour and melbourne,they even have road signs in chinese. you can wipe the "china" nation out of the face of the planet but chinese people will always rebuild another china,its the sense of "chinesism" that america is fighting against and no civilisation has managed to purge chinses in the past few thousand years.
>TL;DR china,because no mater how many time you destroy the nation "china", the chinese will always rebuild another
>>591184848 >>every American knows how to use a ar15 i highly doubt this and how fucking had is it to learn also warfare isnt just about having the coolest guns american obesity isnt winning any wars any time soon
>>591185700 yes you might argue that, those second generation chinese will assimilate into the society of the host nation,but lets not forget that they also embrace their chinese heritage and root, they do realise that they are han chinese afterall
>>591168054 Numbers didn't protect them from the Japanese. Numbers didn't protect the Soviets from the Germans. As the world stands, the US would likely crush anyone in 1v1 conventional warfare, it would be horribly lopsided. This may likely change in the decades to come. Ideally we will find a path to real peace and an end to war...
>>591184833 this is exactly how it works. most modern ships have good anti-rocket systems equipped. seaskimming is the only remaining way to avoid getting shredded by radar-aimed high precision miniguns.
>>591185434 on the other hand,us is a big diverse country hence hard to control,us lacks the cohesion, vietnam war would be a good example,us didnt lose to vietnam,it lost to itself. races would be a big factor too, china would just send in some spies and intensify the racial tensions between different ethnicity groups and it will eventually lead to a racial civil war in america
>>591184848 and thats exactly why its dangerous, china would just send in some white looking spies to start a riot and you burger rapists neckbeard would start shooting each other with your glorious AR15 in the name of "patriotism "
China would just cut all exports and loans to the US some months before invading and use the money to build a proper sea fleet while the US goes down the drain. Then they just go ham with infinitely superior manpower. US would only stand a chance if their economy would notbe so dependent on china.
>>591189463 This aint oldschool command and conquer games buddy. You imply that the US would send their warships into an assault against china instead of stationing the ships defensively along their coasts.
>>591189289 americans are still bragging how many aircraft carriers they have,but the truth is, if china really wanted to invade us,they could produce 40 aircraft carriers in a month,the manufacturing power of china is just invincible
>>591190261 This. When germany got atacked the tiger tank was vastly superior to any other tank at the time. They still just got zerged by a bunch of shermans each. They would just surround it and take one or two losses in the process but they would either get lucky and destroy the tiger or make it run out of fuel.
>>591190849 >Nah, the truth is that they are struggling with their single aircraft carrier that is nothing more than a rusting cold war relic bought from Ukraine. >The aircrafts they plan to launch from it are just SU-33 clones.
check the news mate, us government has allowed chinese engineers to see the production of american carriers,dont you think they have learned a thing or two from the us?
>>591189864 .... A month.... If they need a month to get their war machine rolling, US tactical strikes would have the head of the Chinese snake off in 12 hours. That's the problem. US just waltzes in with the most advanced aircraft and carriers in the world, blows up every production center in China capable of producing something useful to the war effort. Problem solved. US, only nation with sufficient force projection at the ready.
>>591167237 Define: Conventional War. Let's assume no utilization of WMDs, since that kind of kills the war boner.
If we invade China, China wins because of greater access to resources and recruitment from populace.
If China invades USA, USA wins because of greater access to resources and recruitment of populace.
If China and USA fight over a specific territory, China will probably win, but it would be a Pyrrhic victory. China would expend enormous resources for the victory, and the USA would probably just say that the cost of continued conflict would be greater than the profit gained from victory.
>>591167237 First off I don't think China would ever be the aggressor because America kinda owes them trillions of dollars that they don't wanna lose, but in the even that they did, America would win. Sure our economy would go to shit and the war most definitely would be fought in America and in the Pacific, but in a conflict of that size it wouldn't be just China and America, it would involve many more countries, most of which would be on America's side (At least the ones that could actually have any sort of affect on the war at all).
In all likelihood it wouldn't just be America vs. China, it would be America, most of Europe, parts of South America, Canada, Australia, Israel and bits of East Asia vs. China, parts of the middle east, North Korea, maybe Russia if the stars align correctly, and (pfft) some Africans probably too. While China is a huge economic super power, it's obvious when you look at it from a global perspective which side is stronger, even with America's economy crippled.
Of course, none of this means anything because China won't attack the US because they don't need to, nor do they really want to.
>>591191875 your eyesight is a bit too narrow mate, if wont be long until china figures out how to build a functional carrier and it wont be hard for china to mass produce it either,believe it or not the day china builds a functional carrier,there will be 10 others built the very next day, thats the manufacturing power china has
Most of you people are idiots. in a conventional war between china and the US. the US have 10 aircraft carriers, many air bases in the surrounding area (japan, korea, guam, afghanistan, etc), all of which allow the us, through aircraft and ballistic missiles to pound the major chinese cities. Whereas the Chinese have exactly no airbases near the US, have only one aircraft carrier, and their only ballistic missiles capable of reaching the US are their ICBM's. Thus the US has the ability to hit China, whereas China does not have the ability to hit the US.
Thus it is simply a matter of time before the US shit houses the chinese economy, think what isreal did to lebanon, only on a far vaster scale. Does this destroy china, no; however, it will remove china as a regional power for decades.
TL:DR China messes up some US military equipment, US messes up chinese military, economy, and cities. US "wins"
>>591172642 This is under the implication that the U.S is the aggressor, but it specifically says China is the aggressor. That literally eliminates all debt owed to China, and the credit wouldn't be a problem, as America would not be the one refusing trade
>>591191808 If they fought over a specific territory it matters immensely where that territory is.
The US navy completely and utterly destroys the Chinese navy in all scenarios. If China is the aggressor, it's unlikely they'll have international support, therefore any territory outside of China would likely not allow passage (at least without notifying the US). So maybe like N. Korea or something close by, but certainly nothing >1000 miles from their border.
I don't see a scenario where China wins a territory or US invasion. The US invading China just wouldn't happen, we'd resort to nuclear weapons before we'd resort to that.
>>591173690 >>591173576 The U.S is massive as well, though not quite as massive. With the combination of heavy civilian resistance, as well as the organization of organized military resistance, I doubt it would be possible to do.
dude Im not sure you noticed this, but in order for China to send waves and waves of troops at the US, they need to cross this little thing called the pacific ocean. Unfortunately for them, they lack a sufficient navy to safeguard a single trip across the ocean, much less a constant flow.
Long story short we bomb them, they try to shoot down our bombers, nothing more than that.
China does not have nearly an equivalent element of force projection. They have an assload of neighboring land masses and lack the navy to stop us from staging troops in europe and the middle east via the atlantic. Meanwhile, we do have the entirety of 4th fleet to keep them from successfully staging in SA via the atlantic, 5th to keep them from ever passing the indian, 7th and 3rd to stop them at the pacific...
actually seems you missed the TL:DR. Also you seem to assume that China has the capability to destroy all of these positions. Possible in a long war, but in the mean time they lose their cities, and infrastructure.
>>591189525 I'ma have to slightly agree. America is reliant on China for day to day lifestyle choices, which is important for population moral. However, considering how Americans works, they'll just get pissed at China rather than get upset with the government for China doing shit. "DAYUM CHINESE TAKIN MUH FREEDOMBURGERS" However, with or without the US the Chinese can feed their people, they just don't. The money is invested in the military and the government to keep the starving in line.
>>591189289 LOL the U.S is so dependent on China because it's cheaper dumbass, not because we need them. They produce cheap shit at cheap costs for America because the U.S wants to spend billions making its military supreme, which is why we would easily sweep in with our unmanned bombers and fuck them in the ass as their chink children scream from the might of the United States military.
>>591192656 >oh gee im going to post bullshit opinions that have no backing on the internet and expect nothing to happen to me The bad views of our country can be pinpointed at one single asshole named George Bush, and even still, to say we have no boundaries is retarded. before you say >no boundaries, look at vietnam trolltrolltroll We pulled our troops out at the request of our citizens >you napalmed everyone Jungles asswipe, Vietcong engaged in guerrilla warfare, meaning ambushes, so to prevent even more casulties, we found possible locations were they were camped and blew it up. >oh ok but you're the only country to use nuclear bomb To prevent hundreds of thousands of needless deaths on both sides of the war, though it wasn't exactly humane, it was better than carpet bombing every square inch of the country.
If i got off track, im just trying to invalidate assholes who say the same thing over and over
I think Euros and whoever else is claiming that the Chinese would win have absolutely no idea how shitty every other country's military in this world is compared to ours.
After Russia fell, we're the only superpower left. It'd be like if there were only one supercar in this world, say a Ferrari FXX and people argued "yeah but duh honda civic SI is duh 2nd fastest car, it won't be too long til honda catches up".
It's embarrassing, y'all need to wake the fuck up, for real.
The US has had three major encounters with the Chinese; summer of 1900 (the US invaded), WWII (US and China allies), and the Korean war (China kept US out of North Korea). Study what has happened to know why the US is now buddies with China.
>>591170399 The US army beat the Vietnamese army left and right, the war was a political one, and the poor Vietnamese farmers and citizens liked the communist party. They thought it would up their social status, when it failed. Democracy lost to communist, not the army.
>>591191296 Carriers have enough fire power to fend off an attack, but you are right in a way. Cruisers have most of the fire power in the fleet. not to mention a carrier is the fastest ship in the fleet so if in danger it can outrun anything on the water
>>591195536 You seem to be stuck in your room. Why don't you utilize your computer and have a look at how big this world actually is. China for example is a pretty big country. So yeah, it would take quite some time to destroy all of chinas infrastructure.
But keep dreaming buddy, maybe the day will come that some nerd can just press one button and launch enough drones, aircrafts, missiles or whatever else floats your boats to destroy a targets scattered across a landmass the size of china in less that a year. Protip: This nerd who presses the button will be some chink hacker.
>>591196027 Well the carrier fleets also always have at least one anti-submarine submarine and many anti-submarine aircraft. Also logistical and EWAR ships that have early detection capabilities against surface and subsurface vessels as well as missiles and aircraft.
>>591196171 >wants me to teach a 101 class on modern chinese military because he is too lazy/stupid to take 5 minutes and do the research himself no thanks, teaching lazy americans isnt on my schedule for today, or ever. I will however continue to laugh at your retardedness, so please continue!
>>591167237 I actually did a masters paper on this topic.
TLDR: If China successfully knocks the US out of the first and maybe second island chains in a short fast action, combined with political pressure (like the Russians pushing Poland), China gains Taiwan and becomes power in Asia.
If war goes on for a long time and US lacks distraction. China loses, mostly because it cant win a straight fight with the USN away from its shores.
yep, you know you're wrong. It is always funny to watch people result to saying it is a simple google search when they know they are wrong.
Back on topic chinese DF-21D's exist, but have no effective kill chain. Add this to the fact that their are <100 of these missles in existence, I stand by my statement that China lacks the capability to destroy all us bases in the area, and carrier groups, in a short time frame.
There aren't many powerful military countries that would sacrifice themselves to fight for China. US has Japan, who never seem to get tired of killing Chinese people and has been pushing for greater military independance, and Gorea, one of the most pro-american countries on earth and one that is in a constant state of military readiness. US Ground Forces have far superior tech and better training, along with much better and more vehicles. The US also has a far superior Airforce and Navy, and better logistics. Chinese aircraft launching to bomb US infrastructure will have to cross an ocean and waves of advanced interceptors and missile defense systems to reach their targets. The US has airbases on several islands near China and the defensive countermeasures to overcome Chinese air defenses. In addition, Aircraft carriers and their carrier task forces also have the resources necessary for land invasions at strategic points.
On the other hand, China has sheer numbers. With reserve and paramilitary personnel, they have a 2:1 numerical advantage against US forces and with North Korea, the 4th largest military in the world, that number increases. Their production capacity exceeds that of the US, although their tech isn't as good.
>>591198084 >Their production capacity exceeds that of the US Right up until we tool up for war like we did for WWII. Shit, we had IBM and international harvester making rifles for us and Ford and GM making tanks.
haha, again attempting to attack everything around the statements, but ignoring the truth behind them. Not once have you mentioned anything specific about what weapons and or how china could destory all the US bases quickly.
Hence you are a shill. For lols, china, russia, it does not matter. You are wrong, and I suggest you take a look at /k/ before continuing your work as a shill. It will help you improve...
>>591167237 Are you really trying to compare the military strength of a nation that within recent memory has just entered into an industrial revolution, integrated jet technology into a makeshift air force, and achieved spaceflight off of the success of others?
Numbers mean nothing if you can't stop an orbital strike.
USA would mop the chinks. Chinese economy is nothing but a temporary phenomenon allowed by American expansionist policy. You can compare it to Japan in the 80s. We were all concerned but it didn't last long. Anyways neither countries would even think of attacking since there is too much vested economic interest on both sides. US has much better tech and chiner is copycat nation.
Now, the US with very little contest because we dominate air and sea. They have more ground forces but no way to use them; their troop transports could barely make Tiawan before being sunk. 10 years from now maybe... 20 years from now it depends, if they fix their air and water pollution problems and continue to improve quality of life the US won't stand a chance. If they don't then all of their top scientists and engineers will live in the US or Canada and they will have gone back to agriculture by hand primitivist communism.
>>591167237 Those fucken chinks would be wiped out quickly. Lets not forget that the Chinese military, while large, is largely using outdated tech. The US would win on all fronts. By land, air and sea.
Regardless, only a dumbass would think the two nations would ever go to war. The rely on each other too much to ever fight.
>>591202176 >us going nowhere >literally just launched new space vehicle named Orion and uh.. i think... THE UNITED STATES has currently has made just about every space faring object in history, a very large amount have gone to other planets.
oh and we put men on the moon more than a few times like alot of times
>>591203676 you understand Russia is better at space than the US. Runs the current space station, launches all US astronauts since the last US shuttle explosion, has had dozens of space stations. Like I get sad sometimes. Sad people like you are out there. Making stupid.
>>5912042037 >Who's footprints is on the moon? >Who has had constant innovations in space faring vehicles >who has launched robots to mars, on constant occasions >who has put satellites around most planets i he solar system? >who has a space faring vehicle about to leave the solar system?
Okay guys if the us wanted to beat china we could do it without having to fire a fucking shot. We put out a law prohibiting any goods to be manufactured in China, and that if any country does business with China we will completely cut ties with them as well. No country would side with them. The US is the biggest market in the world and most countries are heavily influenced by American goods (try to say your not on your apple/pc computer, on an American website, drinking American coke and eating American oreos). The factories can be moved to other third world shit holes like India or Pakistan. It would create huge unemployment, and if the government tried to employ those people it would run up such a huge debt that it would crash like the USSR in the 90s or go back to the stone age (I think the Chinese refer to it as the 1950s). Moreover, the Chinese want American/western goods and they would demand the government step down if they weren't getting it (imagine if all our computers and movies were taken away immediatley because of political bs, we'd be just as pissed).
Now just to humor every one if the US did have a major invasion it would be horribly grusome (I saw the US because china can't get over the pacific, that's just a fact). China would with out a doubt suffer more loses just like they did in Korea, but it would probably end (relatively) soon either because the government was obliterated (tomahawk missiles to every parliament members house) or the American public would just get tired of the killing the way we did in Vietnam and the army would take a much more defensive position and slowly retreat
This. China is basically our manufacturing slaves. We allow them to hold some debt(less than 9% of US debt) so they feel like they are important and have some power. The truth is that we could cut them off whenever we want. We have enough cheap dollar store shit stockpiled until we re-tool some of our factories to start making that shit here. We just recently neutered Russia by dropping oil prices. The truth is the US rules the world.
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