Is true knife defense without a firearm achievable through

>>951775
Not with a great degree of reliability. I mean you'll probably fair 10 times better than someone with no training but that moves you from like 0.1% to 1%.

>>951786

So basically you go from dying like a dog in the street to dying like a dog in an ambulance?

Depends on if you are going to play true Scotsman or not.

But yes however nothing is certain 100% flawless victory best magic anti knife death touch. And their is a LOT of bullshit out there. So much so that some in the martial community see dealing with edged weapons at all as almost nearly impossible.

In the end it comes down to how you train any your mental attitude that increases your odds of survival more then what exactly you train in.

That being said style like FMA have the most familiarity with knifes and knife defense on a practical level.

>>951793
>Depends on if you are going to play true Scotsman or not.

I don't know what that means, please develop your hypothesis.

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yes, you will still get cut pretty much 100% of the time but defensive wounds are better than taking it to the liver

>>951788
Yeah so I mean theoretically a well versed martial artist could probably keep someone else safe, but it's fucking hard to stop a knife attack. And every knife defense assumes you see the attacker coming.

If someone blindsides you with a take down and you're good at BJJ you can turn that fight around.

If someone blindsides you with a hard punch, and you've got some striking experience there's a slight you can get your feet and fight back.

If someone blindsides you with a knife to the throat/lung you're pretty well fucked.


Unarmed against a knife is fucking -hard- especially if the guy with knife isn't a complete idiot.

Actually know someone from my class who had a story of being attacked while he and is friends were drunk one night.

Angry dude pulled an knife and slashed at him, without thinking he just front kicked him away and ran the fuck out of there.
Only when him and his friends woke up the next day did he notice a huge cut through his jacket and shirt and how close he was to being gutted.

Long story short, yes but it is better to be lucky and run at the first chance you get.

>>951796
It's a fallacy where you exclude a counterexample to a universal or broadly general claim from the subject of your assertion. Basically, if someone that did this or that martial art gets shanked, it's not that the martial art failed. The guy that got shanked will be called a fake that didn't properly represent the art and didn't attain the true skills of knife defence a real practitioner would have. Less dramatic but still valid and probably much more common, you see it a lot when representatives for martial arts get smoked in MMA events or even in just cross-style matchups. Such and such did badly but didn't represent the true (insert martial art of your choosing here).

getting back to topic
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=F4qXuVAtXUs

have a video of Tomiki Aikido, where they actually do a form of sparring where an unarmed guy tries to defend himself from a guy wielding a prop knife. Notice how they consistently get slapped and poked with the metal dong that represents a blade multiple times before even managing to attempt a disarm, much less complete it.

- speed
- strength
- accuracy
- reflexes
- reaction time
- fakes and feints
- set-up
- tactics
- strategy

Whether you're Boxing, Wrestling, Kickboxing, Muay Thai-ing, UFC-ing, it'd be a good idea to use these things.
Boxers use things things.
Wrestlers use these things.
Kickboxers use these things.
Muay Thai practitioners use these things.
UFC fighters use these things.
Judoka use these things.
Homosexual brazillians use these things.

People spend hours upon hours developing these things to win fights. The more people improve these things, the better their chances of success.
It's no different with defending against an armed opponent.

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>>951775

Be like this guy.

>Pusk kick
>Run
About the only strategy I can imagine working more than 1% of the time

>>951775
No defense from anything is 100% certain and anyone claiming to do give you a full proof plan to protect yourself is a fool. Hell I remember a video that circulated awhile ago if a pro fighter getting knocked the fuck out in a street fight because he got bonked in the back of the head with a 2x4. Shit happens. On the flip side I also remember reading a news story where a professional mma fighter parried a knife attack thinking the guy was trying to punch him and then knocked him out with one punch, only after realizing that "I almost got stuck"

What martial arts can do is five you the skills necessary to increase the odds in your favor. Think of martial arts as a force multiplier. Weapons are also a REALLY big force multiplier so you better be pretty fucking good if you want to tangle with a guy trying to stab you.

>>951775
> it's another one of these threads
This isnt alternative sport or wrestling related

>>952043
90% of the alternative sports people are martial arts to begin with

This is discussing whether any martial art can greatly increase your chances of surviving a certain scenario, stupid.>>952043

>>952042
>What martial arts can do is five you the skills
What if I want martial arts to 7 me the skills?

>>952043
Bait
>>952045
Baited

>>951836
Whats this from?

No. Even a gun is far from a guarantee under 21 feet.
/thread

>>952045
There should be a martial arts board 2bh. all you partial autist faggots talk about is muh mcdojo this muh mcdojo that or is > is muh full contact expressive dance effective against x
You cry about the wresslefags spamming yet 99 per cent of your threads are the same old boring shit

>>952076
More bait

Lets see if the anon take it yet again.

>>952079
How is it b8? Its all true
You lot are just like the wresslefags but just more boring

>>952064

Perfect answer.

To expand on it, even at 20 feet out, an assailant with a blade can probably close the gap an stab you faster than you could get a hand on your gun, raise it, point/aim, and fire off a reasonably accurate shot.

>>952049
Sicario. It's a good movie, worth checking out.

>>951808
This you'll be surprised what cuts are lethal and what aren't the thing is people freak out at the sight of blood if they aren't heavily trained.

>>951786
Always have a firearm! Niggas must die edition!

>>951775
Every knife defense specialist/instructor will tell you that there is no 100% method to protect yourself from knife attack. The best defense is just run away.
Anyone who tell you otherwise probably never hold a knife.
even spetznaz instructors are saying that you could use some method to protect yourself from some simple knife attacks in specific situations BUT you probably will get hurt if someone who attack you know how to use them.

As far as I understand it the issue with knives is that they get pulled out without warning when your opponent is close to you and then they just stab you 10 times before you even know what's happening.

So if you see someone hiding their hands, you need to immediately assume they have a knife in their hidden hand and are going to rush you and try to get you to the ground or up against a wall where you'll be easier to stab multiple times.

Then you apply that ugly-ass technique where you try to block his stabbing arm with your forearm and grab his knife, but you are very likely to be stabbed a few times in any case.

In this situation it doesn't matter if you have a gun unholstered, you will get stabbed either way.


This is a good vid imo:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Bgi8UPVLteU

>>951775

Nobody knows because nobody has the guts to train 100% even with rubber knives.

>>951775

FMA would probably give you the best shot,but a push kick and running away should always be your first option

>>952275
If my assailant is 20 feet out, Id turn around and run. Me most likely being a better athlete and a ton faster, I'd either out run him or get a safe distance and pull my gun out.

>>952503
that video annoyed me
first of all that wasnt a social experiment, a social experiment is something that tests social conventions
this was just a lesson on knife defense to someone that never did one

and a bad lesson at that, his techniques wouldn't work, You don't strike someone in the face when the knife is in play, you focus 100% of your attention on trying to control where the knife is. Until the knife is out of play the rest of the attackers body isn't even there as far as you're concerned.
the only thing palm strikes are good for is knocking someone around when you don't really want to hurt them too badly.

>>951775

I know I'm gonna get heat for this, but probably krav or aikido.

If you can control the knife hand and maybe joint lock something with a knee strike or nut shot, you might be able to get him to the ground and get the knife out. Controlling the wrist that the knife is in seems to be the most important thing. I would be worried about outrunning a dude just in case he turns out to be fast, but maybe busting a knee and getting the fuck out of there would be the best thing you could do, because you can't push kick a guy away from you forever. I had a teacher that trained the local police and cops get taught some sad little wrist locks to keep from getting stabbed. That's the best you can do unless you have a Batman utility belt with tasers and pepper spray.

If all else fails, take their knife hand, jam it into your side avoiding all your vital organs and pummel the guy until he's out. Then kill him and get to a hospital.

tl;dr you're probably fucked so I would say get a gun.

>>951788
>So basically you go from dying like a dog in the street to dying like a dog in an ambulance?
Not to rain on the (justifiable) hate parade on "knife defense", but people survive stabbings all the time.

Getting stabbed or cut once or twice isn't a death sentence.

Learning how to fight against a knife (with or without a knife) is beneficial in that you up your chances of "winning" with the least amount of damage taken possible, because you're going to get cut 99/100 times.

>>951775
Attempt to control the knife, be ready to take painful defensive wounds, hope they aren't properly trained with it.

I'd rather fight a guy with a bat than a guy with a knife.

>>952949
>I'd rather fight a guy with a bat than a guy with a knife.

That's a good way to get your head smashed in

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Hku1QrHxjGc

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Q9pbQclU9JM

then there are these wild cards if you're into FMA

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=SBxQ-PWNn6o

>>952543

That's also a perfect answer. Best defence against a blade is distance. Run like hell.

Dumb question here, if you get stabbed down to the bone ( like in the shin or elbow ) would the other guy be able to take it out ?

>>952971
>https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Q9pbQclU9JM

>this is why it doesn't work
>doesn't explain why it doesn't work

The defender against the knife is unrealistically a shit martial artist.

>this is what keeping distance looks like against a committed knife attacker
>shows what's essentially a swarm Boxer
People can block and parry those attacks without the knife easily while Backpedaling, or enough to turn around and run away.
The application of the blocks and parries with the knife have a very minimal difference.

That video was complete horse shit.

>>952971
>https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=SBxQ-PWNn6o
This video wasn't so bad, but the guy was kind of rambling.

>>952507
are you high?

>>952507
>>953151
He has a point.
There's a significant lack of thorough training of knife vs unarmed, application of knife vs unarmed, and analysis of knife vs unarmed.
There's a lack of objective and scientific methods of obtaining data, and a lack of objective peer revision, and a lack of objective data analysis.

>>953133
fuck are you on about? the guy clearly demonstarted what he was talking about
maybe if you watched not even the whole vid but like a 3rd of it through there's no way you would've missed it

>>953053

Depends. Tip will probably break.

>>951775
Funnily enough, my club just had knife defense lessons.
The entire lesson had a somber tone, everyone looked depressed because we all already knew how dangerous knives are and the trainer concluded the lesson with "these techniques are nice toys, but their use is questionable".
The conclusion was that we might maybe get a slight percentage increase of survival chances with proper knife defense, especially as most enemies will knife you out of nowhere without you even being aware of the weapon.

Remember, folks, the winner in a knife fight is the one to die second.
Your best defense is parkour, a gun at a range longer than 9m or a sword.

>>954362
For the record, we are an FMA group.

>>951775
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=E61jnJe_1SI

This should be mandatory viewing for all martial artists.

>>952958
A bat needs to telegraph strikes.
A knife doesn't. It doesn't even need speed. It can cut you from a stationary position with barely any movement.

>>954370
>shows all students on their FIRST lesson on unarmed vs knife
>doesn't show the students after they get good
>doesn't show the students 1 year later after dedicated training
>doesn't show the students 2 years later after dedicated training
>doesn't show the students 5 years later after dedicated training

>>954362
It's not that great when the enemy has the element of surprise on you.
So, you should work on getting the element of surprise on your opponent.

>>954362
>Your best defense is parkour, a gun at a range longer than 9m or a sword.
Or if it's the ol days, your walking staff turns into a bo staff or jo staff pretty quickly.

>>954375
Real life isn't Dragon Ball Z. No matter how hard you train you are still vulnerable to a knife attack.

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>>954362
>or a sword

Will Keith is that you?

>>954559
I'm pretty sure you could learn some techniques to win in a knife fight, it'd just be very time consuming and not that useful.

>>954806
>I'm pretty sure you could learn some techniques to win in a knife fight

Definitely.

But they won't make you invulnerable to a knife attack.

>>954559
>No matter how hard you train you are still vulnerable to a knife attack.
No matter how hard you train, you are always vulnerable to a punch.
No matter how hard you train, you are always vulnerable to a throw.
No matter how hard you train, you are always vulnerable to a submission.

>>956137
None of those things are false

>>957029
>Will Keith
That´s the point.

>>956137
I'm not sure what you're implying here, because those are all true.

I'm also not implying you shouldn't train to defend against a knife or use a knife, because it could mean the difference between getting stabbed and winning the fight and getting stabbed more and possibly dying (though many people survive one sided knife attacks all the time).

But that training doesn't mean that after five years of training knife defense you're going to be invulnerable to knives or knife attacks.

>>956137
Fighting is a gamble. Boxing, MMA, street, weapons. A dude could slip and lose. Shit happens. Run away, live another day

>>951775
I used to train knife defenses a lot with Krav Maga.
The techniques mostly came from Judo, with a sprinkle of Aikido and a bit of Krav Maga agression. But when I did Judo I had no idea they could be used like that.
So no, if you want to train knife defenses you really need to do a style that trains against knives.

Plus it's really easy to make small mistakes that could cost you your life.
Like for example during training you miss a block, the plastic knife hits your forehead and then you laugh about it.
But in reality you don't want a knife stuck in your forehead.
So if you want to be good at disarming knives you should really do it a couple times a week.

And even then you are still a bit dependant on your opponents stance and skill. In certain stances you can redirect the attack, but it's hard to get control over his arm. And if the other guy is skilled in knife fighting there is basically nothing you can do. Because as with everything in martial arts: every attack and defence has a counter.

>>958164
>Fighting is a gamble.
You can gain skill, learn how to count cards, learn how to read people.

>>958239
>But in reality you don't want a knife stuck in your forehead.
The chances are that it just bounces off of your forehead.
It's your forehead, that's a hard ass bone.

>>954370
They look like absolute beginners. And he kind of ruins their chances by putting their backs against the wall, so they can't move away. But those low stabs are fairly easy to stop, because they expose their entire arm. So you've got an entire arm to play with.

With quick slashes or straight stabs it's a lot harder to get around the knife. Or if someone targets the arm you're defending with.

>>958239
>Krav Maga.
Stopped reading here, goy.

>>958364
That's why you don't know he also did judo.

>>958471
Well, these days I wrestle. I recently lasered my eyes so I try to avoid getting punched in the face.

>>958283

Then it slides down and cuts your face in half or takes out an eye

>>958587
If the knife person is using the "sewing machine stab" technique, then no.
It'd bounce off, they'd retract their arm, and stab again, unless you do something about it.

If they don't have a basic understanding of fighting, and they didn't learn the sewing machine shank technique in prison, they'd think a knife is a all mighty and powerful thing, and be in shock if their single holy all mighty stab missed, which gives you a second or two to try something.