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I don't know if this is the right place to ask but what

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I don't know if this is the right place to ask but what fighting style or martial art is the closest to "cqc " featured in MGS? I kinda like the strikes and grappling it shows
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>>798878
A lot of the wristlocks areally based on aikido but aikido is fucking garbage. Learn judo instead.
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The strikes remind me of something but I can't really put my finger on it.
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Muay thai + judo
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>>798878

Filipino martial arts.

(also known as Kali, Escrima or Arnis)
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>>798879
>aikido is fucking garbage

No it isn't.

90% of people who practise it are couch potatoes that go to it once a week for their 'exercise' and 'enlightenment', if you persevere with your training it can be very functional when combined with basic striking skills, a la cqc.

CQC would be a combination of Judo and Aikido, with some basic Kickboxing (or Muay Thai/Karate) techniques.

I wouldn't count on trying to mirror it in your training, keep in mind it's a video game (albeit a great one). Unless you want to be a jack of all trades, master of none.

Better off learning/ "mastering" striking style and then moving into supplementary grappling style with maintenance sessions in striking style, and then split classes and go to both evenly later on. This would take almost a decade unless you become a full-time live in student.

There are plenty of opportunities to become an Uchi-Deshi in Japan at plenty of diverse schools, for a price, Mauy Thai training camps with accommodation and meals for comparatively cheap are also plentiful in Thailand (cheap compared to Japanese long term living expenses).

Give it some thought.

And yes, there actually used to be CQC threads pop up every so often here.
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>>798878
It's just krav maga
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>>798901
Aikido is unmitigated garbage, no amount of strike training will change that

Aikido even has some garbage striking in the curriculum
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>>798902
Makes sense. They both only work in fiction.
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>>798903
Why do you even think this?
Have to truly fallen so far into this pit and its "epic memes" that you baselessly attack a style with nothing but the tidbits you have stolen from other peoples arguments?

Or do you simply judge it on appearances?

You fool.
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>>798905
Feel free to provide evidence to the contrary.
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>>798901
Ideas on the striking style?
Pic unrelated
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>>798910
Honestly it would depend on commitment for results.

If you can only train once a week (in striking) Choose Karate (ideally Kyokushin),
Karates educational structure and more 'gradual accumulation' of skills is better for less frequent training.

If you are going to go more regularly (2+ times a week) Muay Thai is ideal, Kickboxing is good.

If you can find a decent boxing gym in your area that you could make it to once a week, it would greatly supplement your skills and development in Muay Thai or Kickboxing.

Ideally you should train in Martial ARts as often as possible, but if you are also gym/strength training in the meantime, remember to give yourself a break between sessions (1-2 days before training same muscle groups) and never train through pain.

>>798905
Burden of proof.

If you are going to call out a style, at least provide your own, objective, undeniable, evidence.
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>>798934
If by ideally you mean only kyo or offshoots. Pyjama dancing actively makes you a worse fighter.

Regardless, boxing or MT would still be preferable.
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>>798905
>why do you think this

Because you spend 95% of your time working on moves that will only work .0001% of the time while training in aikido
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>>798901
>Unless you want to be a jack of all trades, master of none.
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>>798905
Lack of updated curriculum and focus on spiritualism over training actual practical application against resisting opponents. Everything Aikido you ever see are compliant demonstrations where someone takes dives for the aikidoka after throwing ridiculously telegraphed pantomimes of an attack. The throws, trips and holds used often lack proper use of leverage and momentum or control over the opponent's body, leading to situations where grabbing hold of someone's arm suddenly makes their other arm incapable of fighting back in any way.

While this makes for hilarious comedy where Steven Seagal pretends he's a badass by having someone take a spill from a nudge, it hardly leads to effective fighting. Some of the weapon defense stuff is legit but you can learn that elsewhere where you'll actually stress-test it and learn to apply it against someone that isn't in on it and trying to make you look good. It's pretty telling that all the schools that do Aikido with active sparring, like Tomiki Aikido, just wind up looking like sloppy Judo.
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>>799306
>every demonstration you ever see is compliant
>demonstration
>compliant

Do you know what a demonstration is?
Because I assure you, anything considered a demonstration IS a highly scripted affair, simply showing basic techniques to observers.

You don't fight your instructor every time he shows you a new technique, because it is a demonstration.

As for the effectiveness of Aikido, only practitioners whom have attempted the use of its techniques against an opponent can speak as to its effectiveness.

Personally (although naturally my opinion is biased) I have never had an altercation in which I have failed to get my opponents arm and subdue them. although granted, most of these altercations were in highschool and against the untrained, I always felt basic arm/wrist techniques were more than enough.
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>>799315
Here's the thing though. I realize I worded that in a way that left you that way out, but for essentially everything else you have videos, easily observable proof, where they engage in a fight. Sure, there's usually rules, limitations, agreements, but they're actively trying to hurt or otherwise effectively subdue the other guy to the best of their ability while the other guy does the same.

I've found very, very little of the sort for Aikido, and it's a couple of offshoots like Shodokan Aikido, which separate themselves precisely because they engage in these sorts of practices. And then it just winds up looking like sloppy Judo. So yeah. All things considered if anyone's interested in Aikido I'd just go for Judo.
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>>799319
Ì wholly agree with you.

I personally feel Aikido instruction of any quality is supremely hard to come by, and the only proper way to train and truly become competent in it as a fighter would be to become an Uchi-Deshi, living and training in Japan.

Western Aikido is largely garbage for neckbeards that want to be 'a dangerous man' without trying hard, and the ones that don't go for that are far too heavy on the spiritual side where it is 'art', but far from 'martial'.

Anyone considering taking up Judo and not moving to Japan, should really consider Judo or boxing.

>>799315 here by the way
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>>798879
Aikido is an expansion pack for your martial art.
Hating on Aikido is a meme. However, training Aikido and nothing else will give you barely any results. You need to have a fighting foundation of some kind first, because Aikido's nature makes sparring and stress drills too dangerous.
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>>799473
>2dedly4sparring
Fuck off.
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>>798907
>>799306
>>799225
Techniques you learn in a martial art are not the actual art itself.
The art itself comes when you learned the techniques so much that you can grasp the ideas behind them. I do FMA and there's twelve standard blocks against twelve angles of attack.
Doing those standard blocks is not FMA. What is FMA is adapting the concepts behind those blocks against strikes from all directions.

Same goes for Aikido. Sure, the techniques do fuck-all, but they are a perfect device for teaching you how to manipulate a person's body. It's knowledge that allows you to expand your control of the situation.
Many of the things in Aikido are things that you normally would never think off, like making a step next to your opponent when he grabs your wrist. Looks completely pointless, but actually does hurt your opponent's wrist.
Useful in a fight? Most likely not.
Useful when a fucker harrasses you and you want to intimidate? Hopefully yes.
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>>799478
>provide proof
>no anon let me ramble on some more
yeah okay...
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>>799391
>I personally feel Aikido instruction of any quality is supremely hard to come by, and the only proper way to train and truly become competent in it as a fighter would be to become an Uchi-Deshi, living and training in Japan.
So, do Japanese martial artists generally do more than one art?
I feel that the idea would go against their sense of honor.

>Western Aikido is largely garbage for neckbeards that want to be 'a dangerous man' without trying hard, and the ones that don't go for that are far too heavy on the spiritual side where it is 'art', but far from 'martial'.
Do you really want to generalize like that? McDojos are more of an American thing, really.
In Germany, for example, you might get into trouble for pretending that you are an instructor in an art that you have no clue about. Our national associations take care of that shit.

The bit of Aikido that I did had an instructor that also knew a pressure point martial art. He loved to use it while demonstrating techniques.
>if you do this wrist lock, you press here and then your enemy screams
Was pretty funny to watch, at least. And the guy did know his shit. In fact, I think he learned Aikido in Japan and occasionally went back there.

>>799476
Aikido consists almost entirely of wrist locks and shit. You will inevitably break something if you do it at full speed.
As I said, it's not a full art. It's a subset of nifty things to use in your art.
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>>799484
>Aikido consists almost entirely of wrist locks and shit.
Bjj consists almost entirely of elbow locks and shit. You will inevitably break something if you do it at full speed
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>>798878

Martial Art or Martial Style are a brand. Although many Martial Arts don't codify their teachings under a system; in general, a Martial Art has schools which are lead by instructors with a lineage (which influences their methodology). School's have a curriculum (or curricula), curriculum contains courses, courses are made up of subjects, and subjects have modules. In a Martial arts context a module can be thought of as a technique, form or group of techniques.

For example, Judo's Seoi Nage (Shoulder throw) and its variations could be thought of as a module (or maybe the variations are a separate module). Seoi Nage falls under the Subject of Te-waza (hand throwing techniques) and falls under the course of grappling (jujutsu).

Now the scope describes the many different modules which have been incorporated into a curriculum of a Martial Art or Style.

Wristlocks can be thought of a module and hand strikes can be thought of as a module. Aikido contains both these modules, as does Judo (though this is dependent on the school and instructor), Hapkido has both and so does Shorinji Kenpo. Many koryu and gendai budo Japanese styles contain both these modules as well, for example Katori Shinto Ryu, (Hontai) Takagi Yoshin Ryu, Bujinkan, Jinenkan, Genbukan etc.

Here is the rub. There is only one correct way to do a wristlock or a hand strike in the most efficient and effective manner relative to the situation. The modules of some styles do this well, and some do not.

CQC is a whole other kettle of fish. CQC can be thought of a curriculum in itself and there are many sources (Schools) which cover off on it, but not all CQC training is well defined or effective.

There are many ex-military types of will teach CQC which they picked up from service. Not all of it is good, but it's as authentic as it gets. LEO types will also have limited training (depending on service).

Many manuals for CQC, both military and civilian, are publicly available. That is another way
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>>799527

Cont,d.

CQC isn't rocket science. The fundamentals are simply and easy to grasp. With a little training in any martial art school you could probably put most of it together yourself.

As an aside, CQC describes a distance between 3-30 metres and usually refers to room clearing and urban combat, primarily with a team.

CQF is what you might be looking for. CQF is Close Quarters Fighting which refers to a distance of 0-3 metres and involves close hand to hand combat techniques and strategies. CQF can be trained for multiple attackers, but usually covers off on single combat.

CQB is one step above CQC in terms of range, usually referring to assault rifle ranges (30m to 400m). CQB is trained with multiple teams including fire and support groups.


From what I've seen of the MGS videos on CQF I believe you could get most of it from an Aikido school. Probably dabble in some Judo, find a jojutsu school or an ex-military type for training and you'll be set.

Seriously, it's not complex at all.
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Holy shit ninjerfag got released from the asylum? The men in the white coats need to make another visit since the pathological lying hasn't cleared up.
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>>798901
Post a video of aikido working against someone who trains a real martial art.
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>>799473
>aikido doesn't suck guise, you just have to train something that doesn't suck first. That makes aikido good
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>>799527
>>799534
Fuck off ninjerfag
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>>798901
https://youtu.be/OJAYZMuzYC4
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>>798901

If 90% of the people who practice Aikido are fat, non-combative potatoes who refuse to spar, then, technically, Aikido IS fucking garbage, and one should seek out Judo, BJJ, etc.

Training partners matter. It doesn't matter how good the style is, the guy who trains against other fit and aggressive practitioners, in non-compliant techniques, is going to be a better fighter than the guy training against weak and meek people using compliant techniques.

I understand that YOUR aikido/kungfu/kravmaga place might be a shining exception, but it's a rare one. The average Joe has a better chance of finding a good Judo or Boxing Gym than a good Aikido one.
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>>799501

rekt.

Seriously, how are 2deadly fags still believing their own bullshit.

If you choke someone long enough, they die, therefore Judo and BJJ must be too deadly to train live.

If you slam someone into the ground, you can do lasting damage and possibly kill a guy, therefore Judo throws and hard Wrestling takedowns are impossible to train in a non-compliant fashion


Right?

Wrong. There is always a way to go live and test your fighting skills. Fuck, in the Army, we loaded our issued C7's with simunition so that we could train force-on-force with live ammo.

2deadly fags refuse to train live because they are afraid of testing themselves. That's it.
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>>799554
They're afraid of the incoming cognitive dissonance mind fuck
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If you exclude much of the weapon stuff Hapkido is very similar, as is JJJ, and most of the throws can be found in Judo.
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>>798895
No, not even close.
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>>798902
While it could be said to be a modified form of some sort of combatives program, it is not really krav maga. There are more differences then similarities.
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>>799671

Yes, absolutely.

Not only because of the many knife fights, but you can even identify FMA specific techniques (like the "Labai") in certain scenes. And you see a lot FMA disarms..

I mean look at this:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FcJSHQMx27w

And then look at this:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=HCoDb740z3I

It's pretty obvious.
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>>799478
Techniques are the core of a martial art, at least so far as the martial part goes. Effectively learning how doing this or that causes this or that effect that will allow me to effectively defend myself or hurt someone in specific ways. Any competent instruction will show you that it's not just a specific rote response, move A for attack A, they'll teach you the ideas and mechanics behind them and the reason why they work as they do and how so you can apply them yourself.

If the techniques themselves do fuck-all, something you said yourself, then you're not even learning to manipulate a person's body, because other martial arts with better training curriculums teach you how to do this with the actual techniques rather than trying to apply some mumbo jumbo about how you're supposed to look past the actual physical application that you're learning and find deeper meaning. There's respectable grappling systems that teach you about how leverage, positioning, momentum and off-balancing will allow you to control someone, and teach you this with the actual moves themselves and how you can apply them or modify them in a myriad of ways.

The "art" part itself tends to come more from the philosophical aspects, the spiritual and moral development along with the encouragement of self-growth. That you, person defending Aikido, admit yourself that the moves do fuck all and are most likely not useful in an actual fight means that Aikido is, in fact, rather garbage, no matter how ridiculously you try to justify it.
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>>799682
Not only are there pretty large diffrences between the two

>Shinsei Kenpo & Shinsei Arnis Jitsu systems
Really, a hybrid homebrew style with JJJ and Kenpo as major components.
I am not sure if you think I am a idiot or if you are actually a idiot.

Watching the first video again just makes me think it looks like hapkido with gun stuff.
Unlike FMA you can actually find ALL of those moves in hapkido, and even used in similar ways (except maybe that cartwheel out of a wrist lock, don't think I have seen too many people practice that. And the taking the gun apart thing, which I don't even think is possible in the way they do it in the game).

Not even saying hapkido is good or anything, just that it fits the best move set and hand to hand approach of all martial arts I have seen.
CQC is extremely different from FMA with only a tiny overlap of techniques that are often used differently tactic wise.
MGS CQC is obviously primarily grappling style with strikes being secondary but important, especially in cut scenes and in MGS3.
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>>799658
That's because it's literally a shitty rip off of jujutsu with shitty TKD mixed in.
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>>798879
I believe you shouldn't underestimate ai-ki-do. Now I know you may be thinking, "Why take a weakling martial art like aikido seriously when I am learning Kendo?" I can see why you would think that, how can a peaceful martial arts like ai-ki-do beat a powerful one like Kendo?

Well, I have a story to share with you.

Years ago, I was a Kendoka, I thought I was the toughest kid in high school, I would pick fights, and kick ass. I was full of hate, until I picked a fight with the wrong dude. He was a Japanese exchange student, I still remember his name, Noboru Takeda.

I picked on him because of his hilarious and thick Japanese accent. I told him I was going to beat him so hard, he would go back to China(Yeah, I was a little racist prick.), he never said anything back, made me wanted to kick his ass even harder.

Well, here comes the fight. I threw men and do strikes, he dodged them like I was a mere white belt. I was tiring out and he knew, I saw the smirk on his face that made me raged hard. I put all my strength in one amazing tsuki, and he grabbed past it to my wrist and threw me over. My back smacked on the hard cement ground, and I was knocked out for who knows how long.

When I woke up I was in the school infirmary, I asked the nurse who brought me here, and you guessed it, Noboru Takeda. The next day, he wasn't at school, he was back in Japan, and I never got to thank him, for saving my life and showing me the light. I soon learned that he was an aikidoka and have been practicing aikido ever since to show my thanks to him.
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>>799921
Nice copypasta
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MGS moves are based on aikido
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>>799938
> a NEET fantasy game uses techniques based on a NEET fantasy martial art
KOJIMAAAAA
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>>799769
But the techniques don't do fuck all.
Squeeze a persons wrist the right way and their hand becomes limp and malleable.

Granted the art does rely on the opening for the attack presenting itself, and while it does teach the attack with significant telegraphing, the trained response is completely suitable for a realistic altercation.

Most of the 'attacks' they are trained to respond to are punches to the head and wrist grabs, basically any opportunity.

And given that they are trained specifically for that opportunity, or to similarly create the opening by grabbing the opponent's wrist (they are of course taught this when they practise as the Uke, having techniques demonstrated upon them.)

But naturally the curriculum also includes counters to virtually all their techniques, so in the situations someone counters their wrist grab in theory they can also counter that technique.

Aikido is about the physical, but in the west it became about spirituality and philosophy, where these were only a minor component beforehand, similar to how some Karate styles focus on the "mind" over the "body" and "spirit".

But this is the true flaw in Aikido, if you were to train in Japan, you would see that they are true martial arts (in comparison to the large majority of Western Aikido Dojos) and styles like Yoshinkan in particular, continue to focus on 'form' over 'flow'.
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>>799942
Wasn't me that said the techniques don't do fuck all, you can check the post I'm replying to. The art relying on an opening has nothing to do with Aikido, this is basic fighting where you take any gap you can in the opponent's defenses. Karate is practically the polar opposite of Aikido and they still rely on openings like everyone else, so that point is moot. In fact, being so reliant on opponent-given opening should be seen as a huge hole in training and application.

The drilled response is not suitable for a realistic altercation because even if Aikido has a response to a punch, it is not practiced against an actual one. You said it yourself, the attack is done with significant telegraphing, not to mention not all punches are equal. When you know it's coming and are 100% prepared and it's not an actual punch but the pantomime of one you're not training to defend against an actual full speed punch, like someone who's taken a few boxing classes will throw, in a scenario akin to a fight. You're training half speed against someone who isn't actually punching you, just going through the motions and with no other offense coming your way.

You keep saying how Aikido's curriculum trains counters to multiple techniques and can create their own openings, but I'm not seeing it and have never seen it. I haven't found a single shred of proof where an Aikidoka counters, well, anything thrown with actual intent, and in demonstrations to show off the depth of Aikido's curriculum you get the same magical counters to opponents throwing sloppy nonpunches, running into you face-first without even attempting an attack or wristgrabs where the other guy does nothing else with the rest of his body.
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>>799942
>>799981
Even if the curriculum were 100% solid, which it's very, very far from, the compliant training practices against people who are in on it get you the ridiculous idea that a wristgrab somehow completely shuts down an opponent's offense. Unless the guy is holding a weapon and unwilling to let go and try anything else, a guy can still use the entirety of his otherwise unrestrained body to keep fighting.

Aikido is physical like any martial art, but it has a very heavy spiritual and philosophical side, more than many others but not as integral to it as, say, Shorinji Kempo which has been recognized as a religion. Ueshiba was very heavily influenced by the Omoto religion/cult and much of Aikido's focus and indeed its very name find their origin in Ueshiba's beliefs. But that's neither here nor there, really.

You keep saying "oh train in Japan it's much better there" but, again, I've yet to see a single piece of evidence to support this claim in this day and age of crosstraining and everything being recorded or photographed in some way. Every time I've seen an aikidoka step outside the comfort zone of being surrounded by his peers and try to take part in an actual, non-choreographed encounter it has ended badly for them and their showcases never ever seem to feature actual sparring unless it's one of the few offshoot schools that include it. Whereupon, once again, it just looks like a sloppier Judo.
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i notice a lot of the throws are sambo throws
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>>799774

Oh god, you...

Look, I've got serveral years of FMA experience and I know my shit. Of course MGS isn't "pure FMA" to the core, just like every computer game they mixed in some stuff, flashy high kicks here and there. But 90% of the techniques are FMA (mostly disarmas, locks, knife attacks) or Silat (the throws and some holds), I could even tell you what they are called in our system for example. Or if I have time I'll make a collection with video stills from MGS and put them side by side with FMA pictures, so you know what I mean..


Anyway, let me show you this:

>"Pekiti-Tirsia Kali is an authentic Filipino Martial Art. (...) Pekiti-Tirsia essentially means "close-quarter" (...)"
>http://www.sentemartialarts.com/pekiti-tirsia-kali.html

And this video is lterally called "CQC":

https://www.youtube.com/watch?list=UU7ZW8hCf-1JGbeVXh2Ytq7A&v=Wdo9wn-G_Gw

Or here:
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>>800480

Or maybe those video is better:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fmGh7B2kQyo

Here are some guys who reenacted some MGS scenes, they also claim a lot of it is Silat:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KPRzzTGavM4
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>>798878
Judo with some basic kickboxing strikes and gun disarms.
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>>800566

Could you please stop spreading such non sense?

How is knife fighting Judo?
How many Judo weapon disarms do you know?
How many throws that use wrist and ellbow as legerage points?
How many ellbow strikes you see in kickboxing from the side (not from the front, like i.e. Muay Thai uses them)?
How many "hammer fist strikes" you use in Kickboxing?
How many Judo throws utilise the head and neck as leverage point?

If anything, Aikido is somehow close to CQC, but Aikido usese them only passively, not agressively (like FMA does).

I've done 2 years of Aikido, 4 years of FMA and currently I'm doing Judo and FMA, and MGS is definately not "Judo + Kickboxing".
Not only the techniques, the whole fighting strategies in MGS are Judo unlike, you never see Solid Snake losing someone on his hips, you never see him using foot sweeps or anything Judo related.
But you see him using angles footwork as in FMA, you see him using "lock and block" techniques from FMA, you see him defending knife strikes and executing hammerfists and knife strikes exactly like an FMA guy would.

Yeez..
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