> BJJers do mental gymnastics to validate why they pay 300

They seriously pay $300/month?

My judo club costs $100/year.

>>747912
Even in NYC the most expensive is 240 and that's under wold champions. I pay 75 a month for 6 days a week of bjj.

Yeah because judo is so great and can beat everything with its retarded rule set and lack of ground work. Like we get it, you've done judo for three months now and you can beat up everyone so you better talk shit about a martial art that was meant to exist peacefully alongside judo and even be trained in conjunction with judo.

>>747915
75/m where?! ffs There isn't a place around me for less than 130/m ( Canada)

>>747917
Buttmad GJJ fag

>>747917
Don't get uppity, kid. Remember who your daddy is.

>>747972
Jokes on you i never knew my dad. and my step dad is a faggot.

>>747909
If judo was remotly as well thaught for small guy vs. big guy, it would have been known for decades.
Yeah since the russian did whoop some ass in the olympics rules evolved for the worst.
> why wait till 5th dan to train strikes properly?
>Where are the leg locks judo was so proud about?
>Bjj rules against leg locks and wrist locks are second only to the stupidity of IJF competition rules in under most (95%) dojos train today
>It is sad that 3 months wreslting get the average bjj purple to the level of a judo bb in no gi?
>No gi Judo, do you remember? Only in the youtube videos...
>Are you old enough to remember ne-waza rules before bjj came to the spot light?
I hope bjj never follow the path judo has taken, it would be the burial of bjj.
Don't get me wrong, I love Judo, but the path it has followed is even more fucked up than the one bjj is going today.

>>747909

Same boring "Judo vs. BJJ" thread as every month..

I guess you don't even train, right?

Also yes, BJJ is too pricey but they have a better culture (more open minded towards other fighting styles) and better organisational bodies than Judo.

And I'm saying that as a pure Judoka.

File: 1316404126749.png (2MB, 1920x1080px) Image search: [Google]

2MB, 1920x1080px

>>747909
>300

I only pay 50/month for BJJ, Muay Thai and MMA.
And the instructors know their shit, which is a plus

>>747976
>why wait till 5th dan to train strikes properly?
Because we realise that specialisation is the key to success and that we'll never teach striking as effectively as a boxing or muay thai gym.

>No gi Judo, do you remember? Only in the youtube videos...
What? There are still loads of no-gi comps.

>Are you old enough to remember ne-waza rules before bjj came to the spot light?
Are you old enough to remember BJJ from before its practitioners thought pulling guard from standing was a "takedown"?

Really, we should stop making all of these distinctions between judo and BJJ.
BJJ is literally just a ruleset of judo.
It's judo with micropoints - it's that simple.

If you refuse to learn takedowns because you'd rather get your head kicked in or if you refuse to learn leg locks because you can't use them outside of training, that's your own fault.

>>747909
I pay $100
If wanted to I could go train 11 times a week.

File: image.jpg (22KB, 200x200px) Image search: [Google]

22KB, 200x200px

> BJJers lying about the prices of classes to protect the non-white Gracie family

This thread is too much

>>748044
> BJJ is literally just a ruleset of judo.
I say it's an evolution. Judo is dying a horrible slow death thanks to IJF, BJJ will take it's place and that's a good thing

>>748452
But BJJ is already dying too considering its thought on takedowns is shit

>>748044
>Because we realise that specialisation is the key to success and that we'll never teach striking as effectively as a boxing or muay thai gym.
Yeah and MMA never existed.
Can I start call you names?
>What? There are still loads of no-gi comps.
And the level is so low that they remain unknown.
>BJJ is literally just a ruleset of judo.
Ruleset, for self defence, doesn't know shit about the history of the glorious judo born Kano Jiu-Jitsu.
>If you refuse to learn takedowns...
implying I don't crosstrain.
>>748457
Judo rulesets get narrower and narrower,
BJJ expand to no-gi and submission only...
There is a Russian wrestler that to bjj (not judo, nor sambo because of politics) that ended 2 of its bouts on glorious takedowns. Happened last week end, google it, won't make gif for you.

why is there so much hate on bjj?

because success breeds jealousy

>>748452
Unless they do something about all the guard pulling and drawn out matches, that just isn't going to happen. I train both Judo and BJJ, and as much as I love the freedom BJJ rules still offer at the moment - even if I generally against pulling guard - those two elements make it less suitable as a spectator sport - and, let's be frank about this, that's where the money is too.

>>747909
Even Atos is only 250 a month, get your money straight pal.

>>748485
>why is there so much hate on bjj?
Because practitioners are cunts and try to convince people that their narrow-minded martial art is the very best martial art ever.

>>748472
>There is a Russian wrestler that to bjj (not judo, nor sambo because of politics) that ended 2 of its bouts on glorious takedowns. Happened last week end, google it, won't make gif for you.
Do you have the name of competition or people involved - or just a link? My google-fu is failing me due to a lack of details. Would very much like to see that.

>>748499
This. That's not all BJJ people but a vocal majority for sure. They drink cool-aid, tattoo Gracies on their chest, and claim that BJJ is single best fighting art around

>>748548
what are beats BJJ 1v1?

Oh yeah, none.

9 out of 10 times (at least) bjj would win against any other single martial art (mma not included)

>>748757
Dude I love BJJ and all and love to train it, but it's silly to think that it dominates everything all the time. That is up to the practitioner alone.

>>747922
I live in Appalachia and when you're in one of the poorest areas in the USA shits cheap.

>>748854
>Appalachia
holy shit you're in one of the cradles of American folk style wrestling. That area has produce tons of great wrestlers and still has a very strong presence of national achievement in HS and junior wrestling.

>>748790
Be honest. In a 1v1 match, who would win? A pure bjj bb vs any pure artist of any other art? Inb4 muh kimura. Bjj and judo changed a lot since then.

I'm all for crosstraining and stuff, but honestly, bjj and mt are the only arts that are obligatory for mma.

>>748790
Of course it's up to the practitioner, but we aren't discussing practitioners, we are discussing styles. In these conversation, it's implied that all hypothetical fighters have been equally trained for an equal amount of time with equal strength and equal everything else, the only difference is style.

>>748757
What about all of those times when judoka have rekt the Gracies?

>>748970
link to what i'm talking about
Damian Maia who's a rather high ranking BJJ black belt (4th degree BJJ black belt under Roll Gracie trained Fabio Gurgel) and BJJ world champ and ADCC champ, struggling against Tiago Camilio (Brazlian judo olympian silver medalist) who isn't even consider a judo ground specialist.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XyYLBGErC2I


Watch the judoka sweep Maia, pin him and stuff and counter Maia's sub attempts.

>>748757
I'm completely certain that any Wing Chun fighter that has down the fundaments could defeat any BJJ practitioner, any day of the week, even if the Wing Chun Practitioner was missing 3 fingers.

Wing Chun is just a superior martial art; Wing Chun combines kicks, punches, elbow strikes, and even anti-grappling.
The Boxing of a Wing Chun practitioner is much more intricate, well-developed, and more efficient than that of any other striking art. The Kickboxing of a Wing Chun practitioner is by far superior Karate and Savate, simply because of how magnificent Wing Chun's Boxing is, if you were to add some kicks on top of that, it'd be a fucking high-speed bullet train to pain town.
Blow Job Jutsu can't even begin to comprehend and be able to defend against Wing Chun's striking along, let alone it's magnificently well-developed grappling and anti-grappling designed specifically so that the Wing Chun practitioner could strike the living fecal matter out of any and every practitioner of any other martial art because of Wing Chun's superior striking-oriented-grappling and anti-grappling.

>>748974
samefag shit poster that post 1 line 1 sentence.
I dub you cancerchan or 1 line 1 sentence kun. I almost miss Britney kun.

>>748975
>Britney kun.
Who is that?

>>748976
God you're such a newfag.
at least that aspie troll had an enduring gimmick of telling everyone to leave people alone and stop bullying them. Like that one meme about leaving Britney spears alone.

Stay pleb newfag. and lurk moar.

>>748977
>and lurk moar.
I've been lurking /asp/ for a year, though...

>>748978
kek
bullshit newfag
again lurk moar
this is 4chan, btw. newfags like you should probably lurk on /b/aby to get their feet wet and learn some decent trolling.

>>748979
b-b-but I'm not a newfag...
I first visited /diy/ maybe 7 years ago.

File: 6.gif (128KB, 300x100px) Image search: [Google]

128KB, 300x100px

>>748979
>/b/
>decent trolling
lol no
Those phaggots don't know shit about trolling, it's the trolls on slower boards that have better skill.
Those fags can actually learn about their prey and continue to obtain information from posts days or even months.
Shows what you know, newfriend.
It's okay, though, we accept you.

>>748981
>bawwwwwww
>plz xcept me
be more analblasted pleb and go back to /b/
you /b/aby
wahhhhhhhhh

>>748982
What slanderous attacks hast thou thrown against my good name, thou contemptible wench?
Whereas I have risen even unto the foremost rank in the Royal Admiralty; whereas I have on many an occasion partaken in clandestine crusades against the Saracens; whereas by mine hands have fallen barbarians numbering some fifteen score; whereas I am most skilled in the ways of the ape warrior; whereas I am the premier marksman amongst all of our Kingdom's knights:
Thou art in my sights but yet another quarry.
The Lord be my witness, I shall smite thee as no-one under the sun hath heretofore been smitten.
Dost thou deign to fancy thyself secure to cast thy spittle upon my face from behind the Spider's Veil?
Then thou hast wandered into grievous error. Yea, even at this very moment, I am sending word across the land to my fellow Templars, and the provenance of thy scrivenings shall in short time become known unto me.
A veritable maelstrom of vengeance is upon thy gates, thou wretched worm, which surely shall obliterate thy loathsome pretension of life.
Truly, thou art foregone, child.

>>748983
tldr
hows it feel to waste all that time copying and pasting stale pasta that no one reads?

File: the-last-samurai-the-last-samurai-24585071-852-480.jpg (95KB, 852x480px) Image search: [Google]

95KB, 852x480px

>>748984
bretty gud, fam, tbh
It's like resting beneath a cherry blossom tree as a cool breeze gently caresses a cherry blossom flower which falls on my resting unsheathed katana.
It's, as our people may say, euphoric.

>>748985
Well, it's early morning (it's quite l8), and I haven't slept.
Twas nice chatting with thee, m8, 8/8, I r8.
I'm going to bed, bae, night, fam.

>>747909

I respect BJJ and if I had more time/money I'd probably cross train.

But nevertheless, let me tell you about two BJJ guys I recently met:

First Story:
>guy comes into Judo training
>wears white BJJ belts with stripes on it
>Ne Waza lesson
>instructor kindly asks him if he has prior experience
>he just tips at his belt with the three stripes on it with a condescending look, probably the BJJ version of "tips fedora"
>instructor has no idea what this belt means (mind it's not a judo belt) and just say "Uhm, OK"


Second story:
>cross training in standup fighting style
>new guy, we talk after class
>"I also do BJJ, have you heard of that?"
>"Yeah, that's pretty cool. I'm doing Judo myself."
>"Oh really, where do you train?"
>we talk a little bit
>"By the way, in our BJJ Dojo we also have Judo lessons."
>"Oh, that's good."
>"Yeah, but we do old school Judo, you know? Not the SPORT JUDO of today.."
>I stay quiet and change topic instead of telling him that personally I woudn't like to have a street fight against those SPORT JUDOKA at my dojo
>I also don't ask him why they train Judo if BJJ is so amazing


So honestly, I find it ridiculous to always play this style bashing game, I do respect BJJ. But sometimes I'm confused about their attitude, or maybe it's just a matter of what people you meet..

>>747976
>>Bjj rules against leg locks and wrist locks are second only to the stupidity of IJF competition rules in under most (95%) dojos train today

most gyms teach leglocks but competitions don't allow it. my gym teaches them but we must be blue or above to use them in rolling

>>It is sad that 3 months wreslting get the average bjj purple to the level of a judo bb in no gi?

I don't think so

File: 3.jpg (6KB, 253x234px) Image search: [Google]

6KB, 253x234px

>>748974
>and even anti-grappling

>>747976
Difference is, BJJ gyms still teach leglocks, despite competition rules for IBJJF, because there are plenty of other competitions that allow it.

judo on the other hand....

>>748989
Because were are better than you. *serious face* Seriously, if a bjjer is being a douche canoe like that you have my permission to either leglock or wristlock him.

>>748895
Well, on the street you'd get slammed head first on concrete, then the Judoka would start punching

>>749682
>then the Judoka would start punching
Unless the Judoka watched enough martial arts movies, the Judoka doesn't know how to punch.
The Judoka would start throwing haymakers.

>>749608

Haha, thanks!

And I'll say: "Some anonymous BJJ dude on the internet said it's OK to leglock guys like you, so stop crying. It will heal.."


>>748895

>Inb4 muh kimura. Bjj and judo changed a lot since then.

How about "muh Yoshida, muh Ruska, muh Frye , muh Shoji.." :P

Bot honestly, what do we win by arguing with top level competitors?

I think that BJJ is amazing in the ring and still very decent on the street and Judo is amazing on the street and still very decent in the ring, and there are other guys (BJJ as well as Judo) who share this opinion.

Maybe we can stop this neverending dick contest?

File: seio nage high stance.gif (1MB, 360x202px) Image search: [Google]

1MB, 360x202px

>>748452

I agree with your opinions on the IJF, but I think BJJ has its own problems coming up with mcdojo-fication. There's still a strong, pressure tested, competitive culture, but theres a big money making push towards belts for non-sparring celebs, child black belts, learn by video garbage, etc.

I think that Judo will outlast the IJF/IOC fuckery and keep a steady course. High impact keeps out the weak. I worry about BJJ; the hipster instagram culture might kill it, despite the best efforts of actual fighters.

>>748452
BJJ is already getting rekt. You can literally buy a BB for 5k USD from GB/IBJJF

Basically everyone hates the IJF, so why haven't we done a mass migration away from it yet?

>>749758
That's the only road to the Olympics.

>>749774
Who needs the Olympics?

Shooters have already pretty much abandoned the ISSF, I don't see why we can't abandon the IJF.

There are lots of sports where the Olympics is considered to be a small competition. We can make judo one of them.

>>749718
I am serious. Three stripes means he has only been doing it for a little over year or he sucks too much to get a blue belt. Either way he is nowhere near good enough to be that condescending. Wristlocks or anklelocks

>>748973
>Watch the judoka sweep Maia, pin him and stuff and counter Maia's sub attempts.
i watched the entire video and couldnt find a single thing you said.
did maia have a hard time with him? definitely, and he looked gassed/tired since the start
did camillo defend any subs? none were attempted
did camillo get any pins? no, unless you count spending 5 seconds in side control before getting reversed as a pin
did camilo get any sweeps? the only one i can see is at 5:00, which gets reversed right away

>>749781
Pass and mount around 1:10.

File: sakuraba.jpg (31KB, 426x640px) Image search: [Google]

31KB, 426x640px

>>748895
Please don't tell me you actually train BJJ because that's embarrassing. But if you do train I'm willing to bet money that its at a gracie school. In which case have you forgotten the humiliation that Sakuraba put on the gracies?
Sakuraba isn't a BJJ practitioner and he whooped the best gracies into a milkshake of embarrassment

File: 83939390.gif (3MB, 384x288px) Image search: [Google]

3MB, 384x288px

>>748973
>struggling
Do you even train?

>>747909
>300 a month
>cant tell if this post is b8

my gym has judo and bjj for 100 a month...
faggot

>>747972
How's your watered down ruleset?

Seems like dad has dementia.

>>749828
im sorry at which point were the gracies relevant as the best BJJ practitioners?

>>749839
>1970

>>749828
>bjj is ne waza
>uses ne waza to defeat ne waza

There's no embarrassment you fucking aspie,
no one is going around dojo storming any more like you wish with your sekret kung fu McTechnique on a misty mountain top. I can promise that you are fucking horrible. Everyone I know who is worth anything in Judo respects, if not has taken a few classes in BJJ.

They're both really great martial arts that serve different but complimentary purposes.

Go burn some sandalwood and sit in seza for a while longer, weeb.

>>749839
> m sorry at which point were the gracies relevant as the best BJJ practitioners?

Where in my post do I say anything about 'the best" BJJ. Gracies are without a doubt the most influential family in BJJ and the ones who brought it into the light of fame.

>>749842
> Go burn some sandalwood and sit in seza for a while longer, weeb
I don't know what any of that means. I come from greco and freestyle wrestling background and give very little fucks about anything Asian judo included.
Now, Gracies always made a distinction saying how THEIR special method is a complete system. At no point do they ever acknowledge other ground fighting styles being as good or even good at all. Which makes me say that when a practitioner of another style defeated THEIR it was a big deal and an embarrassment.

>Everyone I know who is worth anything in Judo respects, if not has taken a few classes in BJJ.
What the fuck are you on about even? I haven't mentioned Judo once in my post. Try getting chocked out less often

>>749845
>Gracies are without a doubt the most influential family in BJJ and the ones who brought it into the light of fame.
none of which implies any of them were at a comparable skill to sakuraba, so why bring it up in the first place

>>749845
Stop drinking the Koolaid and pretending you're not.
The Gracie did not invent bjj. There are different schools totally free from Gracie influences. Geo Omori taught to a lot of people too.
Which Gracie is unbeaten those 40 past years, Rickson who got dq because too good included?
Yeah.
Stop it.
>I haven't mentioned Judo once in my post.
So you know nothing about the topic you're talking about?

>>749842
m8, when you spend all your time using wu's name or a parody of it, you become your own annoying namefag, regardless of whether your posts are good or shit.

>>748757
Late as fuck to this conversation, but I feel like Sambo is the best single martial art to train in.

>>750044
why sambo?

>>749842
Whos this faggot trying to be Poo

>>749685
Niggers beat each other to death with ground and pound on the street, you're telling me some quick explosive Judoka who probably already killed or paralyzed you with a huge throw on the street wouldn't be in a great position to start laying on that ground and pound? Being the martial artists we are, we most likely all study some striking or watch or practice mma

Judokas know enough newaza to hang, of course, more than likely they'll be submitted the longer they're on the ground, thus I won't deny.

Just as you're most likely to be thrown the longer you're standing with the Judoka, and the Bjj guy will have a hard time taking down the Judoka, more than likely the first exchange will be a throw on concrete, or pulling guard then being slammed on concrete, and having a guy stacking you on concrete, while raining down gnp

>>750056
while tko on concrete might be possible, i have seem videos of people being thrown by judokas multiple times on the street and still getting up.
I would fucking hate to fight a judoka on hard ground but it is manageable. you can always pull guard, expect the judoka to fall inside your guard on purpose, play de la riva and take him down from there, turn his throw into a light takedown and work from there, expecting him to try to pin you and then sweep and work on guard.

however, if the judoka is smart enough he will avoid going to the ground and just work on kicks if he doesnt land a hard throw. just my opinion.

>>749828
>Sakuraba isn't a BJJ practitioner and he whooped the best gracies into a milkshake of embarrassment
but sakuaba trained bjj.

>>749682
bjj guy would realize he is going off balance, pull guard, the judoka would think he is winning and try to sub the bjj dude inside his guard and get triangle choked

also I have seem bjj purples tome nageing judo browns pretty hard after defending some strong koshi attacks.
outside judo rules, when the guy tries a hip throw just stiff your arms, put your butt backwards, pull the dude by the pants, get his back and now you are playing bjj.

i fucking love stand up grappling but there is a reason bjj dominates submission wrestling

>>750056
>>750073

The problem with this street fight scenarios is that there are too many unknown variables..

First of all: why do they fight? Is it a "life or death match" or do they have a problem with each other and want to work it out, or does the BJJ guy try to rob the Judo guy..? It cahnges a lot of things.

Sencondly, most people underestimate that fighters don't exchange informations before the fight. So the Judo guy may think it's a good idea to finish the other guy on the ground (because he doesn't know the other guy knows BJJ) or the BJJ guy would try a takedown (because he doesn't know that the other guy knows Judo). Or they just exchange punches because they don't feel like they need their grappling skills here and someone gets punched out.

Last but not least it's a matter of the environment or just coincidence. Maybe they both trip and start fighting on the ground, maybe the judoka is in a hurry and just want's to throw the other guy to get rid of him an walk away.. too many unknown factors.

>bjj guy would realize he is going off balance, pull guard

Yes, it might go down that way, but that's all to theoretical.. Let's say the Judoka is really pissed and throws a mean Harai Makikomi or Hane Makikomi where you get constantly accelerated until you hit the ground with head first with the other guy landing on top of you.. There's little you can do once the throw started and it will be tough to absorb the impact.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-kX1RVAky4E

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BAd0GzKxAdo


>when the guy tries a hip throw just stiff your arms, put your butt backwards

Which is the perfect opening for a Tawara Gaeshi, Hikikomi Gaesh, Sumi Gaeshi, Tomoe Nage..

Or just an "Over the Back Grip" which enables you to do a Gari, Makikomi, Harai Goshi, Uki Waza..

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NQDzJHUwrA0

holy shit i love street fight arguments

>>750056
>you're telling me some quick explosive Judoka who probably already killed or paralyzed you with a huge throw on the street wouldn't be in a great position to start laying on that ground and pound?
I'm saying that a pure judoka wouldn't know how to throw a punch, because he's a pure judoka. So, he'd be throwing haymakers, since he didn't learn and train punching.

>we most likely all study some striking or watch or practice mma
Don't mind if I don't just take your word for it.

>>748895
>Be honest. In a 1v1 match, who would win? A pure bjj bb vs any pure artist of any other art?
>>749682
>then the Judoka would start punching
>>749685
>The Judoka would start throwing haymakers.

>>747909
I live in a Martial Arts wasteland(Mississippi). there aren't even any cheap Judo places no where near me. All there is is just an mma place 72 miles away that charges 150 dollars a month for bjj and muay thai. I never been though.

>>750073
Sakuraba is a catch shoot wrestler. Unless you have some proof that he did in fact train BJJ you are a liar

>>750088
good luck switching to tomoe nage or sumi gaeshi after trying to do a hip toss, while the guy pulls you down and sits and now you are obligated to pass his guard. even if you want to face stomp him he can still grab your leg and take you down with his back on the ground if you don't know what you are doing.
have you ever sparred with bjj guys?
if you land a strong throw or ashi and the guy simply breaks his spine on the first impact, great. if he doesn't or if he pulls you down good luck on finishing what you started.

dont get me wrong, I have landed some strong foot sweeps and throws on bjj guys that were much more experienced than me.
but then they can
>reposition the guard
>sweep or scramble even if you get on top
>not get seriously injured

if you land the fucking throw that is.
just fucking crosstrain.

>>750212
>while the guy pulls you down and sits and now you are obligated to pass his guard
Lol.
Alternatively, you could just walk away because he's no longer any danger to you.

This "fall over on the ground" defense that BJJers use is a really interesting one.

They even seem to use it as an offensive technique, but in that situation they fall on their face rather than their ass. I think they call them "double legs" and "single legs", but they're nothing of the sort.

>>750152
He was in Brazil for awhile. But Calling him a BJJ guy is just like doing mental gymnastics. You might as well the just say that BJJ isn't really BJJ but Judo and Catch wrestling because that's what Maeda did.

>>750405
>Alternatively, you could just walk away because he's no longer any danger to you.

and give him space to get up and start all over again

you never sparred against a bjj guy have you
nice shitalking for a non MMA fighter who practices low grade american judo

File: neck break.webm (3MB, 1280x720px) Image search: [Google]

3MB, 1280x720px

>>750405
takedowns like doubles and singles aren't you falling on your face. If you ever actually trained you know you can lift them up and drop them on their heads and necks.

A fall that fast with that much impact can kill a person.

File: Dashdavaa pick up.webm (2MB, 500x281px) Image search: [Google]

2MB, 500x281px

>>750442
Hey i practice low "Grade" American judo and there's nothing wrong with my grappling. There's a lot of drama politically with the USJA etc but there are tons of great grapplers that have judo at their core stateside.

>>750442
Yeah, I found kinda logic this to be the problem with greco rules. You don't always "win" if your opponent is on his back.

>>750405

These aren't shit talking questions, I'm honestly curious to hear your perspective.

So if I have you in my guard, how are you going to get out of being in guard in the first place?

Also, what happens when you get taken down by a single leg or a double leg if you miss your defense?

What happens in the case that a bjj guy jumps guard?

Say this was a fight. Like a feud. The guy punched your mom or some bad shit like that. What are you going to do if he does go on his ass and you're not done fighting?

>>750447
>What are you going to do if he does go on his ass and you're not done fighting?

>bjj guy positions guard/pulls guard
>judoka is still on top /standing up
>the crowd break it apart and call the judoka the winner because he was on top and fighting someone who's on the ground is dirty

a vegan, a crossfiter and a bjjer walk into a bar

>>750212

>good luck switching to tomoe nage or sumi gaeshi after trying to do a hip toss, while the guy pulls you down

Nah bro, Judo starts with grip fighting. A Judoka wouldn't just let you get in "hip toss distance", he would push you back and when you agressively push foreward you're already adding the momentum for the throw.

>>750447

>So if I have you in my guard, how are you going to get out of being in guard in the first place?

That's the wrong way to look at it..

"So let's say you're already in mid-air while I throw a Harai Goshi, what are you going to do?"

>Also, what happens when you get taken down by a single leg or a double leg if you miss your defense?

That's like saying "What if I passed your guard?".. Judo is all about not getting taken down and Judoka don't just magically drow dead once their legs are attacked. And still you have to get near enough (win the grip fight) and avoid the Judo attack in the first place before you can launch your single leg.


>What happens in the case that a bjj guy jumps guard?

You can slam one of the legs very fast so he can't entangle you or move of the line. In case you were to slow, well depending on the situation you can accelerate and run against a wall (using him as an airbag) or - more radical - lower your upper body really fast and knock his head on the ground.

Of course it's dependant of the surrounding, on the beach to BJJ guy can probably take each Judo takedown, at a bar brawl where you can throw someone at a table or just at the pavement the Judoka has better chances to knwock the wind out of the BJJ guy with his throw.

>What are you going to do if he does go on his ass and you're not done fighting?

Throw stuff at him or jump over his guard and land on top of him, genki sudo style.

>>750444
>takedowns like doubles and singles aren't you falling on your face
They are the way that BJJ guys do them.
It's pretty hilarious.
Seriously, just search "BJJ competition" on youtube. Their entire standup game consists of:
>Fall flat on your face (read: fail at a single leg)
>Fall flat on your ass (no, "pulling guard" is not a takedown)

>>750447
>So if I have you in my guard, how are you going to get out of being in guard in the first place?
1. Daki age
2. Stand up
3. Walk away

>what happens when you get taken down by a single leg or a double leg if you miss your defense?
You're implying that a BJJ fag could take me down in the first place.

>What happens in the case that a bjj guy jumps guard?
1. Daki age
2. Stand up
3. Walk away

>What are you going to do if he does go on his ass and you're not done fighting?
1. Wait for him to stand up
2. Dump him on his neck

>>750532
And if any BJJfags don't believe how shit they are, watch this.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FPHMPr6iZgY

This is the world jiu-jitsu championship.
These guys are clearly very high-level BJJ practitioners, but in their standup game I'd expect better from a judoka who'd been practicing for less than a year.

>>750532
In most of your answers, you're implying that the guy in front is the same weight/size than you are. What happens when he's 20% heavier?
Your Daki age-stand up-walk away turns out to reach your level i.e. pure shit.
>What are you going to do if he does go on his ass and you're not done fighting?
>1. Wait for him to stand up
Yes, you're a fag. The good answer is walk all over him.
You tried bjj in a mc dojo or rolled with blue belts/ lighter weights and you're proud of it, isn'it?
It you let a cunt sit in front of you and think that you won't lose a leg, you're just a noob. In any average school, they'll leg lock you to oblivion from white belt on.
>>750534
Since you're a kbw that doesn't understand that the rules are more important to winning than whinning about what a noob like you expect from world chambions can do, I don't expect you to understand.

File: get in my inverted guard bro.gif (649KB, 320x180px) Image search: [Google]

649KB, 320x180px

>>750550
>It you let a cunt sit in front of you and think that you won't lose a leg, you're just a noob
Using that deadly buttscoot?

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gBK23Vjv4mM

Really, I don't get why refusing to learn effective standup fighting is considered to be a good thing. Sure, do judo with micropoints and leg locks, but if you're going to do newaza at least learn how to take them down in the first place.

>>747909
BJJ is great combined with wrestling.

File: greco gut wrench.gif (1MB, 250x189px) Image search: [Google]

1MB, 250x189px

>>750557
Any good grappling style complements the other well.

BJJ + Judo
BJJ + wrestling
BJJ+ sambo


Judo + BJJ
Judo +wrestling
Judo+ sambo

Wrestling + BJJ
Wrestling + judo
Wrestling + sambo

They're all good.

>>750550
>In most of your answers, you're implying that the guy in front is the same weight/size than you are. What happens when he's 20% heavier?
>Your Daki age-stand up-walk away turns out to reach your level i.e. pure shit.
Not him, but even while I'm only a middleweight, I have yet to encounter anyone that I can't pick up from guard, and my heaviest teammates are almost 50% heavier than I am.

File: greco 4 point throw.webm (3MB, 720x404px) Image search: [Google]

3MB, 720x404px

>>750566
when it comes to throw base grappling styles. you become stronger over time with the repeated of drilling techniques that require you picking them up and slamming them. Wrestlers and judoka are insanely strong for their sizes. Combine that with the fact a majority of their programs also have weightlifting programs you have strong athletes that can pick people off the ground and slam them.

File: toe hold from Kenny F..gif (2MB, 402x263px) Image search: [Google]

2MB, 402x263px

>>750554
No need to buttscoop when people can't even sense the danger.
>eally, I don't get why refusing to learn effective standup fighting is considered to be a good thing.
We agree on this, buttscooting is bullshit. it should be treated, if the buttscooter doesn't get his opponent to the ground in 5 seconds, 2 points should be awarded to the opponent even if he just avoid the fight and circle around.
>>750566
Did they ever open their guard and try to sweep you instead of playing by the stupid ibjjf rules?

File: ko soto gake persistance.gif (2MB, 360x202px) Image search: [Google]

2MB, 360x202px

>>750554

>Really, I don't get why refusing to learn effective standup fighting is considered to be a good thing

This right here. So many bjj guys take it as a personal insult when you suggest they try to train at least one takedown to a decent level. Just learn one throw.

File: knee buckle osoto gari.gif (2MB, 360x202px) Image search: [Google]

2MB, 360x202px

>>750657

>>750566
what if someone hooks their arm around your leg while youre trying to lift them?

>>750658
>osoto gari
>reaping the knee
>uke's foot planted
>knee is destroyed
>yuko scored no ippon
remember hearing about this. both those players hate each other. blue intentionally leg reapped the knee and destroyed his opponent's knee, shelving him for 8 months and scoring himself a spot in japan's squad for the worlds.

That's such a douchebag variant of osoto. angling your body to reap the knee out. Ive had lower belts spazz and intentionally try to do it and ill just do a real big ukemi hoping my leg doesn't break. I've punched a black belt who intentionally tried to do that to me during randori. A very dangerous version of osoto.

File: matt huges KO.gif (1MB, 212x160px) Image search: [Google]

1MB, 212x160px

>>750664
smash the back of their head in with a slam.

>>750611
>Did they ever open their guard and try to sweep you instead of playing by the stupid ibjjf rules?
Obviously. But in any case, I'm out of their closed guard, so it's all good as far as I'm concerned. The second part of your comment doesn't make sense though.
>>750664
Disregard that and break open their guard anyway.

>>750664
>what if someone hooks their arm around your leg while youre trying to lift them?
Bite them until they let go.

>>750676
>The second part of your comment doesn't make sense though.
I meant if they let themselve lift higher than your belt.

the point of leg hooking is not allowing others to slam you.
also, the guy who slammed was out in your gif. so that is a double ko.

>>750525
>when you agressively push foreward
proof you never fought a bjj guy

>"So let's say you're already in mid-air while I throw a Harai Goshi, what are you going to do?"

except every judoka ever gets inside your guard on purpose or cant avoid it when he tries to pin you. or worse, the try to choke you inside your guard. that's how shitty judo's ground game is.

> jump over his guard and land on top of him, genki sudo style.
amazing guard passing skills

why are you talking so much shit of what you would do if you never have been in a similar situation
what is the point of playing pretend
everything I said is based on experience because i practice both arts. dude, fuck off and stop sucking kano's tiny dick

>>750666
thanks for telling me that
i jus thought it was tard str making up for poor technique

>>750694
You mean exploiting the rule that prevents slams? In that case, I get it.

It does happen, but it doesn't bother me as I'm fairly hard to sweep or submit from closed guard. Deadlifts are rather efficient posture builders.

>>750698
>except every judoka ever gets inside your guard on purpose or cant avoid it when he tries to pin you. or worse, the try to choke you inside your guard. that's how shitty judo's ground game is.
Depends highly on the school. Your average Judo school may have very mediocre ne waza, but the more competitive ones are a different story. I've hardly ever been submitted in BJJ competitions - only due to injuries seriously hampering my game when I shouldn't have competed in the first place - but there's a few Judoka which have submitted me during ne waza tournaments despite me being a decent BJJ blue belt.

>>750706
>Your average Judo school may have very mediocre ne waza, but the more competitive ones are a different story.

I know an olympian, brazilian national champion, south american champion that have shit tier ground game and have seem gold medalists being subbed with a knee on belly. I also trained with guys from the med school who go for tournaments with other colleges and won this year, i know their ground game is fucking shit.

you are either more competitive than these guys or you went to a shit tier bjj tournament/your blue belt is crap. let me guess which one is more plausible

>I'm fairly hard to sweep or submit from closed guard.

you mean you stay stiff as fuck until both are gassed the fuck out or the ref stands you up

File: heel lift leg ride askren.gif (3MB, 433x259px) Image search: [Google]

3MB, 433x259px

>>750726
So you're from Brazil?
Again maybe things are a tad different here in the US, but i've had the chance to train with Nick Delpopolo (US Olympian) Israel Hernández ( Cuban Olympian). But a majority of international players and olympians have insanely good ground game and both Cuba and the US aren't really known for real elite level newaza. The standard is to have good newaza.

Even myself as a scrub 2nd degree and with my wrestling background both olympians smoked me. However ive rolled with plenty of local MMA fighters and several local BJJ affiliates, and i can hold my own with the local BJJ browns and blacks on the ground.

I am rambling right now, but i want to say this. You can't toss the baby out with the bath water. Judo and wrestling's ground work are great tools to know and shouldnt be discarded. Ultimately as martial artist we should learn from one another. And not scoff at the other's style on the ground game, specially when all 3 have been proven time in and time out.

>>750698
Kek, I've subbed a few BJJ guys from their guard.
I've even subbed a couple of guys from their mount.
Do you guys legitimately not even teach the ezekiel choke or something?

But really, I don't know where you got this idea that we get in the guard on purpose. At my club we need to show two guard passes even just to get to yellow belt and four to get to orange.
From memory, a guard pass was literally the second thing I ever learned in newaza after kesa gatame.

>>750743
so you can hold yourself in a submission wrestling match against a bjj brown but not against a judo black or wrestling guy?

sorry, but that makes absolutely nonsense unless you are refering to judo or wrestling groundgame rules. when I say ground game, i'm obviously refering to either submission wrestling or MMA's ground game. the ground game rules in judo and wrestling are nearly irrelevant imho. let me also point out the guy in the bottom of your gif responds like a wrestler would, by giving their back and not fighting to reposition guard. im not going to say that leg riding works, but i can say that giving your back is the stupidest shit you can do on bottom. even if he got only half guard he would have more control over his opponent than by being on fours.

>>750807
>Kek, I've subbed a few BJJ guys from their guard.
>I've even subbed a couple of guys from their mount.

first one ok, I have seem it happening, I did it myself against scrubs.
you lost me on the second one bro. are you proud of choking white belt 10 year old little girls trained in shit tier american bjj gyms?

oh yeah dude, EVERYONE'S judo gym in /asp/ has absolutely amazing newaza bro. guess what? in my bjj gym we drill kataguruma, drop seoi or kouchi gari once in a while. but since i train judo too i KNOW those stand up drills are a complete joke compared to what we do in judo and their contributions to my stand up game is nearly zero. same applies to newaza sessions in judo.

File: monk_laughing.jpg (55KB, 576x381px) Image search: [Google]

55KB, 576x381px

>>750825
>that makes absolutely nonsense

>>750834
>>that makes absolutely nonsense

that translates to "I know you are lying"

>>750825
Don't bother, too many here live in lala land.

>>750726
>you are either more competitive than these guys or you went to a shit tier bjj tournament/your blue belt is crap. let me guess which one is more plausible
Probably the first, as I can catch higher belts with consistency when I train at other places, at home or abroad.

>you mean you stay stiff as fuck until both are gassed the fuck out or the ref stands you up
Nope. I just stand up and break it open. Or stay low and break it open for Judo.

>>750669
i dont think you understand what i wrote

>>747912
50$ per year here for judo

>>748449
The Gracie family came from Ireland, they just mixed with BRs

>>750825

>so you can hold yourself in a submission wrestling match against a bjj brown but not against a judo black or wrestling guy?

It's so amusing how BJJ guys always think that their ground game is automatically better than the ground game of any Judoka..

I mean Wallid Ismael (who has defeated Renzo Gracie, Ralph Gracie, and Royce Gracie) was beaten by a Judoka (Akira Shoji) in Pride 4.

Mario Sperry (3 times world champion in Brazilian Jiu Jitsu) was beatn by a Judoka (Igor Zinoviev) in 1996 Vale Tudo Japan.

Amaury Bitetti (1995 world champion in Brazilian Jiu Jitsu) was beaten by a Judoka (Don Frye) in UFC8.

And last but not least:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9pwMnKNNuDM


So while the average Judoka is usually not on the level of a BJJ guy - which is no real surprise since they train groud fighting all day long - it's absolutely ridiculous to claim a Judoka could never win against a BJJ guy.

And that is without a hard pavement which works in favour of the Judoka.

So keep on dreaming your wet dreams about being invincible, but it's still only just a dream.

>>747917
DIS NIGGA speak the truth. I'm a judo guy we should connect and become one and be known as jubjjdo. People will just think we are skilled in both areas but they won't know that we are actually fused.

i have some rough sketches on how we will look like want to see

How do I into better standup in BJJ if I don't have access to Judo or Wrestling?

>>752259
pull guard
or let them take you down and over commit and choke them out with a guillotine
both wrestlefag and judofags do that all the time look at UFC.

if you guys think 100-150/month for unlimited bjj is expensive. go check out your local dance studio pricings. you'll shit a brick.

File: How-to-Become-Independently-Wealthy-man-no-money[1].jpg (37KB, 350x218px) Image search: [Google]

37KB, 350x218px

>>752363
>mfw when my gym uses a business model from a dance studio

>>747917
literally this
i would train judo too alongside bjj and wrestling if every judo school in existence(beside the top 1% olympic team feeder schools) wasnt filled with a bunch of buttmad weeaboos who willingly make their own sport worse each and every year

go back to making rice balls and taping up your ankles

>>749682
more like theyd rip your t shirt collar and whine to the ref that you arent in proper uniform before getting dropped on their head from a shot
>in his last moments the judo weeaboo points at you and mouths out ILLEGAL MOVE

File: leg ride.gif (2MB, 433x259px) Image search: [Google]

2MB, 433x259px

>>750825
I just realized I got troll'd since this is copy pasta from another thread.


Anyway to make lemonade from lemons, i want to expand a misconception you have about my gif from>>750743
Leg riding in MMA is a huge example of wrestling ground work applied in the MMA ruleset.

Now the bottom man in my prior gif can't roll into guard because of the leg ride.In fact, you can see the bottom man try to roll and pull guard. however the wrestler on top(Ben Askren) uses that forward momentum to get a stubbie (shove his heel under and lift uke's leg) this jams the go under, preventing him from standing up and preventing him from puling guard.

One aspect of ground fighting that wrestlers prevail at that BJJ lacks is standing up from being grounded, and keeping an opponent grounded.Wrestling's ruleset rewards points for athletes being able to get up from turtle, and rewards points for keeping an opponent grounded (riding points)


I am in no ways an elite grappler, however ive been chosen a few times by the local MMA coaches to train and drill their fighters in leg riding and getting up, over the local BJJ gym for ground training. I've even discusess it with them and they said depending on the game plan their developing they rather have a decent high school wrestler leading the drills of standing up and riding then a BJJ brown or black since it can have dicate a match.

I'll admit riding is insanely boring from an audience POV, and is probably overlooked as a tactic and technique (often dubbed as just being a blanket or lay and pray, or grinding out a dec) however it doesnt take away how powerful and useful a technique it is.


On that subject of excitement looking at people like Phil Davis and Ben Askren, once you understand leg riding it can be more dynamic and exciting since its so powerful a positions to land ground and pound, or leave openings to more varied submissions and tilts.

>>748974
>anti grappling
Lmaoooooooo

>>751365
>wallid ismael vs akira shoji: win by tko (punches)
>igor vs mario: win by doctor stoppage due strikes, while mario dominated the whole match on the ground
>amaury vs don: win by tko (punches), by fighting a substitute who weighted 10~15 kg less

only valid one is the yoshida vs gracie, who later got his shit handed to him on the rematch.
on the other hand, i can give you HUNDREDS of examples of bjj guys destroying olympians on the ground along with personal experience. and how many non bjjers do you see in abu dhabi?

stop lying. stop pretending the ground game of judo is anywhere near as good as the ground game in bjj because this is objectively not true. be happy with your throws and sweeps.

>>752413
leg riding is probably more exciting than taking the back.
honestly I have never been in a situation where someone was leg riding me and i tried to get into guard. guard in folk is pointless and bjj guys don't leg ride so i dont know. for me it does seem like you can extend your leg and get into at least half guard. and I feel like getting the back is better.
since I have no experience with that, honestly, i wouldnt know.

File: illegal kneebar with sankaku ippon.webm (2MB, 854x478px) Image search: [Google]

2MB, 854x478px

>>752443
> bjj guys destroying olympians
>non bjjers in abu dhabi
>bjj tournies
I've seen this argument so many times and it usually by novice grapplers who have no idea the career paths and opportunities provided by each grappling system and what is consider the pinnacle in each. This isn't met as disrespect toward them, but its irksome the disrespect the show toward other styles (meaningfully or not)

Abu Dhabi is consider a pinncle career moment for a lot of BJJ players, however it isn't on the radar for a majority of all Judoka, samboist, and wrestlers. That is why you don't see them in there, and that is also why you don't see BJJ players in the olympics. Its the main appeal of MMA leagues because in theory you can get the best of each ruleset/style and have them go against each other. however that becomes a false experiment because of cross training and the introduction of strikes and fences, which vastly morphs all grappling styles.

I'm judo nidan and highschool wrestling coach, and honestly my real serious competition days are behind me even in my late 20s. However I am still participating in my craft by becoming a ref. With this in hand i know the career pathways for true elites in both styles and how it applies.


my post is gonna be real long so bear with me
(end of part 1)

File: choke out chest compression free style wrestling.gif (2MB, 400x174px) Image search: [Google]

2MB, 400x174px

>>752452
First thing ill explain is wrestling.
You have United World Wrestling, which is the national governing body for wrestling. They put on World's. World's are in late summer/early fall. On Olympic years, they hold do not World's but instead wrestle in the Olympics. There are two different styles of wrestling for this, freestyle and greco-roman. They put on a variety of big competitions such as the World Cup and Ivan Yargin.

In USA, we do folkstyle wrestling during our season. You have NCAA wrestling (Division 1, Division 2, Division 3, NWCA, NIAA, etc.), high school wrestling, and some places have middle school wrestling teams, but it's mostly a club sport (in middle school that is). Our athletes do freestyle/greco-roman in the offseason, and then after college they compete internationally.


Olympics are the pinnacle. Everyone wants to be an Olympic champion. Winning World's is second to that for international wrestling. When you see guys in the U.S. talk about wrestling after college, they don't say "I want to win Worlds", they say "I want to an Olympic Gold". You could win the Worlds 7 time and not win Olympic gold, and that will be how you will be remembered. Best guy to not win Olympic gold.

NCAA wrestling is the pinnacle of wrestling to a majority Americans unfortunately. Freestyle/greco is about 5%-15% as popular as Folkstyle in the U.S. by my estimation. So many people only dream of being an NCAA champion, although this trend is changing and more and more people are realizing that the pinnacle is to win Worlds/Olympics. Wrestlers in the U.S. also compete in freestyle/greco while in college/high school, just not during wrestling season (Nov-March).

(cont)

File: duck under fireman carry to armbar.gif (2MB, 360x202px) Image search: [Google]

2MB, 360x202px

>>752455
NCAA wrestling is kind of a feeder. It is in the sense that once you finish NCAA wrestling, that is your avenue to continue competing. There is no folkstyle wrestling that these guys that wrestle in the NCAA can do after college. There is no avenue/organization for it, and likely never will be. It's hard to explain so sorry if this is a bit all over the place. The sport is kind of at a crossroads. The market is growing and more high level wrestlers are continuing to compete instead of switching to MMA, so I think it will be VERY interesting to see how we stack up against the World soon.


Judo is similar, you have in the top tier countries. a feeder system having athletes train since childhood, to vye just getting on the national team. The US is a cluster fuck in terms of organization, since it doesn't have the public school system to feed it unlike wrestling. Ronda Rousey's mom hooked her up or rather trained her similar to how they have the international system. So anyway the pinncle of a judoka is Olympic gold. Every country but America treats their athletes as a federal employee. So they get a yearly stipend (which is a salary up to $40,000 USD), living quarters, and food allowance , so they can just focus on training. Win an olympic medal and they can be awarded several 100,000 dollars (Frances Teddy Rinner, i think had the largest purse for his gold medal with nearly half a million and that is on top of his Adidas endorsement)

.

File: choi te gurama.gif (3MB, 300x166px) Image search: [Google]

3MB, 300x166px

>>752457
Judo is such a niche sport in the US that they don't compensate their athletes for anything, you hear horror stories from Ronda Rousey and Brad Stevens about dividing their time with olympic level training and working 2 jobs just ot make ends meet. That aside the olympics are the pinnacle for nearly the majority of all judo competing countries.


In the case of judo and wrestling there's another, more important reason. Would you rather win an Olympic gold medal (with some general press coverage in most countries, and a lot in countries that don't win many medals), or win ADCC and get almost no general press coverage in any country?

Time spent on BJJ tournies like Abu Dhabi/ ADCC is time not spent on judo or wrestling - and the people you're competing against are going to be focusing on judo/wrestling; you're putting yourself at a disadvantage by doing anything other than the sport you're aiming at Olympic gold in.

Moreover, you have to earn qualifying points in international tournaments even to qualify for the Olympics in judo and wrestling. Being best in your country means nothing; there are about 32 slots for 180 nations in both judo and wrestling; most national champs don't qualify.

The upshot is that if you're serious about judo or wrestling, you're not going to compete in ADCC. Not that I think they'd win anyway, any more than an ADCC champ is going to win Olympic medals in judo or wrestling (they're all different sports), but even if they had a chance they'd never do it, because it would cost them their chance for Olympic glory

File: choke knock out.webm (2MB, 500x281px) Image search: [Google]

2MB, 500x281px

>>752458
My point here was that actually many people are expecting athletes with skill set A to enter in a tournament, requiring skill set B and win it.
Well, in the majority of the cases, they don't actually expect them to win it, but they only want to see the fight so they can point their finger and say "You see!!! I told you BJJ is blah- blah- blah!!!".
I am taking a step back and stating why high level judo/ sambo guys cannot win it, hence they don't enter. Same as why BJJ guys cannot win high level judo/ sambo tournaments.
Abu Dhabi is a funny thing, because it was basically a rule set looking for competitors when it was created. It's not like a lot of people spent a ton of time on no-gi prior to Abu Dhabi being established, it was basically the sheik deciding he liked no-gi and there needed to be a no-gi tournament that the big names would come to so he funded one. It's still basically a BJJ based rule set so of course BJJ guys are going to dominate.

In general style vs. style comparisons are somewhat silly. Styles are essentially defined by competition rule sets, so whoever has trained the most with a given rule set in mind will win under that rule set. There's no way to make a level playing field between styles because do set up such a competition you'd have to create a new rule set, which essentially would then be a style itself. People say 'submission only' but that favors submission artists, not every grappling style has submissions. What about pins, the ultimate expression of dominance in wrestling and a core part of Judo groundwork? But if you have both pins and submissions, then you change the nature of the bottom game entirely. Basically you cannot escape the effect that rule sets have on creating styles.

File: rolling ude.gif (975KB, 350x195px) Image search: [Google]

975KB, 350x195px

>>752445
>back takes
Technically, from a wrestling POV, back takes are a branch of riding (a double leg ride) Its the scoring system that rewards a single leg ride for points, but from a pure platform of attack a double leg ride, gives us our powerhalf and other tilts, from a judo BJJ POV, you do get access to a bunch of submissions


For MMA, you can start your ground and pound, punches are more common, but knees to the body are also there (even though you lose control over the body with knees, but it creates scrambles, which a judoka might thrive in)


In terms of riding in BJJ, as long as you can force the stack and make them turtle, chasing the leg ride prevents uke from pull their guard, The leg pressure and hip pressure should prevent uke creating the leverage to roll even to half guard, since your leg ride is acting like a ball and chain anchoring them.

File: arm shuck collar shrug to back.gif (3MB, 410x228px) Image search: [Google]

3MB, 410x228px

>>752463
gah getting tired, meant back takes and going for your hooks is a branch of leg riding.

File: its_all_in_the_family.jpg (142KB, 777x571px) Image search: [Google]

142KB, 777x571px

>>752443

> i can give you HUNDREDS of examples of bjj guys destroying olympians on the ground

Yup, that's why I wrote that BJJ guys usually win at ground fighting (as expected from a ground fighting system).


>and how many non bjjers do you see in abu dhabi?

Like the other guy already wrote, the Abu Dhabi ruleset is pretty much the BJJ ruleset. Not saying that the guys training there are not top level fighters, it's would just be wierd for a Judoka to enter a tournament with such a strong competition and which has rules that are so much against the rules of his own style.

But nevertheless you have guys like Luiz Theodoro, Sanae Kikuta and Mark Robinson which are Judo blackbelts. They all had some (non-BJJ) No-Gi cross training, but they were Judoka. Of course that's cherry picking, but I just wanted to show that it's not impossible to play on a BJJ field with Judo, if you got some No-Gi to back it up.


> stop pretending the ground game of judo is anywhere near as good as the ground game in bjj

Once again: the average BJJ guy has serious advantages on the ground. Not only is BJJ specialised about ground fighting, it's also a matter of Judoka who are experts at groudn fighting will naturally sooner or later start cross training in BJJ because of the bigger pool, better opponents and so on. So from that moment you can say "hah, he's good but he cross trainind in BJJ", but maybe he was already good (not "an exeptional talent", but "good") on the ground before starting cross training?

Again, the average BJJ guy is better on the ground, which is perfectly fine. I'd say winning on the ground against a BJJ guy with the same amount of training time is quite an accomplishment for a Judoka, just as it's quite an accomplishment for a BJJ guy to seep a Judoka - but also not impossible, just pretty hard.

But there are exceptions! Here's a playlist of Judoka winning against BJJ:

>https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wb3BbbKOdtw&list=PLHoOlPrzBAgOmi3gXU4a0BSSUsaTj4puU

>>752475

(cont.)

I just noticed you have to copy the URL to a new tab to see all 41 videos of the playlist..

Have fun seeing BJJ getting #reckt.

File: 1444071865275.jpg (205KB, 566x800px) Image search: [Google]

205KB, 566x800px

>>747909

The fact of the matter is BJJ is a brand and Judo is a sport.

Another fact is BJJ is a watered down version of Judo which is a watered down version of Jujutsu, which is a watered down version of Bujutsu.

A nicer way of saying it is that the scope of BJJ is much narrower than Judo.

Having a narrow scope is neither a bad or a good thing, but it needs to be understood in context without misunderstanding.

In the case of BJJ, it's a fact that it has very poorly developed standing grappling technique and methodology. But as a counter-point, it puts a lot more emphasis of groundwork. I know for a fact that BJJ is very effective on the ground and very effective in Judo competitions, but I also know for a fact that a BJJ student is incapable of standing toe to toe with a Judoka of equal training experience in a stand-up grappling match.

I also know for a fact that both BJJers and Judoka have been seriously injured or have died because they used their training in a self-defense situation and got caught out because the training wasn't suitable for the situation.

As to the cost. If you want Nike trainers, you pay for Nike trainers because you like the company or the brand and whatever benefits you think it may have. Doesn't change the fact that there are cheaper shoes who do the same job and may or may not be better quality, without the branding.

Martial arts are fit for purpose by the styles scope and methodology. Judo is a sport, BJJ is a sport and a brand and currently a martial arts fad made popular by the UFC. But both aren't well rounded combat arts because they lack scope to deal with a wide variety of situations.

That being said, they are both fit for purpose - sport, physical training and grappling.

>>752506

>Another fact is BJJ is a watered down version of Judo which is a watered down version of Jujutsu, which is a watered down version of Bujutsu.

That's a big oversimplification..

Yes, Judo develloped from Jujutsu. But also from western Wrestling (i.e. Kata Guruma) and Kano reduced JuJutsu to techniques that can be trained safely, so Judoka had fewer and less deadly techqniques which they could perform more accurate and under pressure. Also Kano put up a systematical approach for throws.

BJJ develloped from Judo, but they also had influences from other Wrestling Styles. It's based on the notion that a smaller guy has disadvantages against very strong guys at standup, but on the ground he can nullify the attackers strength to a certain degree. BJJ also has a much clearer and more systematical terminology and syllabus for ground fighting positions and techniques.

Both took their "parent sports" and made something else from it. The main difference is, Judo has noble ideals and BJJ has good marketing.

>>752513
>BJJ also has a much clearer and more systematical terminology and syllabus for ground fighting positions and techniques.
I take it you mean Judo? While BJJ obviously has more terminology on guard work, back takes and several other positions due to its stronger emphasis on those (and while it has its share of logical terminology like, say, side control, knee on belly and the likes) it almost completely lacks any systematical approach other than scoring positions, unlike Judo which usually uses more descriptive terminology throughout its technical lexicon. Terms like butterfly guard, De La Riva, rubber guard, berimbolo, omoplata and the like hardly carry any apparent meaning for those unfamiliar with them.

Also, let's agree to ignore 10th Planet terminology entirely.

>>752536
Judoka here.

I use BJJ terminology for groundwork, because I just can't even begin to remember the judo terminology for it.

>>752452
>>752455
>>752457
>>752458
Would having a sport and organization attach to it save more traditional styles like aikido from being so bad? wrestling and judo and bjj seem to not have as many quality issues as aikido cause of their sports organizations?

>>753190
Actually the "organisation" is what's causing the issues with both judo and bjj.

>>752949
Not the gayfriend you're romancing with.

I get what you're saying but really what difference is there between remembering obscure Japanese something-something-gatame or Portuguese or English meaningless jabber like "Berimbolo" or "Oma Plata" or "Americana".
They are just names with no structure to them

>>752949
I get that, but the thing is that, once you dissect and learn the meaning of the Japanese names, you will have an idea of what technique entails by simply hearing the name, even if you don't know it.

>>753268

Yeah, but there are literally hundreds of "Kuzure" techniques..

What do I get from knowing 10 techniques which are all called "Variation of the 4 corner side control hold"?

File: 1445527840473.jpg (117KB, 620x916px) Image search: [Google]

117KB, 620x916px

>>753268

Problem is most Judo dojo don't teach Japanese or even have instructors that speak Japanese.

Then there is the difficulty with the language itself. Just learning to speak Japanese won't be enough to understand the names of the techniques. You need to understand Kanji to understand the different readings.

I gained a much deeper insight into Judo after learning Japanese and the whole system came together and made more sense.

But then again, how much time do you want to commit to teaching Japanese and does a dojo have the right facilities? Do students then need notebooks and pens?

I always thought whiteboard lecture lessons would be useful, I just don't know how many people would agree with me. Especially since most Judoka don't care about learning many techniques or the nuances and structure of system.

File: 1433383769225.png (880KB, 720x720px) Image search: [Google]

880KB, 720x720px

>>753274

The issue is it isn't just "Variation of the 4 corner side control hold".

Let me give a demonstration.

崩袈裟固 Kuzure Kesa Katame is made up for 2 (3) parts.

Kuzure comes from kuzureru 崩れる which means to collapse or crumble.

Kesa-gatame 袈裟固 is one word which means scarf hold, but Kesa itself comes from Kasaya (http://i01.i.aliimg.com/img/pb/157/181/435/435181157_341.jpg) which is a monks stole or any kind of scarf that is draped around the shoulders.

Katameru 固める is to fortify or harden (in this context).

With this explanation you know clearly that Kesagatame (or Hon-kesa-gatame) is the basic scarf-hold. Kuzure is to collapse or crumble. What are you collapsing or crumbling? The spine. Every kuzure ground work technique involves lifting the spine of the ground and supporting it with arms or legs.

You also know anything that has Kesa in it involves a scarf holding position and that anything that uses Katame or Something-gatame involves hardening or holding tight (fortifying your position).

>>753276

>You need to understand Kanji to understand the different readings.

And meanings still need to be interpreted in the right way. There are many differnt opinions about "Okuri", which literally mean "sending", but what exactly do you send? Uke? Your grip? And so on.

>>753289

> What are you collapsing or crumbling? The spine.

A different explanation is that the position/hold itself is crumbling and needs readjustment (therefore the commong reading as "variation").

>>752506
>I also know for a fact that a BJJ student is incapable of standing toe to toe with a Judoka of equal training experience in a stand-up grappling match.

And what do you mean by experience? Time spent training?

If so, that's just wrong. Some people learn faster than others, some people learn slower than others. Most people, they fall somewhere in the middle. Few but still many learn a lot faster than most people, and few but still many learn a lot slower than most people. It's very basic psychology.

So, it's a fact that you're wrong, because it isn't a fact that any BJJ student is incapable of standing toe to toe with a Judoka of equal training experience in a stand-up grappling match.
To reiterate myself, it's a fact that you're wrong.
What you claimed isn't fact.
What you thought to be fact isn't fact.
A fact is that you're wrong.

>>752506
>>753389
Not to mention other factors like speed, strength, reaction time, use of general intelligent fighting, height, amount of sleep obtained, etcetera.

I'm doing 75/m for 4 bjj classes a week and possibly 2 more if they start doing MMA again. 3 gi days 1 no gi day so far. 15+ year black belt.

Where I'm at almost every single dojo for any style is mcdojo to the max. This is a humble, true to the original dojo that's all about bettering yourself and enjoying the practice.

Eh, I pay $120 NZD per month. That works out to roughy $80 USD per month.

It is expensive compared to other arts, but not too bad.

File: tae kwon do counter sweep.gif (2MB, 352x326px) Image search: [Google]

2MB, 352x326px

>>752506
A good purple belt with 3 months wrestling most often can stand its ground vs a judo black belt with no dan.
On the other hand, a judo brown belt can survive without getting submitted vs a bjj brown belt.
>Another fact is BJJ is a watered down version of Judo which is a watered down version of Jujutsu, which is a watered down version of Bujutsu
And Bujutsu is just a descendant of wrestling...
You faggot.

>>755367
A purple belt is like 7 years of training.
Besides as a wrestler I highly doubt that 3 months of wrestling is enough to learn much. It isn't so much about the precise technique as about timing and the feel of yours and your opponents balance. Grappling stand up is very different than grappling on the ground.
So I'd say to really get benefit from wrestling one needs to train at least 6-12 months

>>755374
>So I'd say to really get benefit from wrestling one needs to train at least 6-12 months
Depends on the person.

File: sasae.gif (2MB, 322x227px) Image search: [Google]

2MB, 322x227px

>>755374
purple belt... 7 years. I got mine in 5 and I'm slow.
this is where it gets fun. Within the judo rules, the ippon wins all. but when the fight keeps going to the ground, a good ippon is harder in every ways than to get than a takedown.
In judo terms, it's easier to get an ippon or a waza ari than only an ippon.
If you're open minded, consistent, put the volume in and not too aloof, 3 months of smart and hard training without injuries will make a huge difference

>>755383
> If you're open minded
A big IF wouldn't you say. I mean this whole board is an example of how few people can be open minded.

Besides, it's also a question of a frame of reference.

File: 1282856334605.jpg (45KB, 433x378px) Image search: [Google]

45KB, 433x378px

holy shit my fucking sides

>bjj is basically watered down judo

hahahahahahaa

>>755396
Most of those who are not open minded enough to crosstrain don't even practice...

I was doing BJJ I paid 180 a month in ventura county. I'm going to Start doing judo for 30 dollars a month. I know enough ground grappling newaza to be dangerous now I can focus more time to my standup game.

>>747917
My first day in a Judo gym I reach my arm across someone's body to grab his lapel and was then informed that it is illegal to cross grab unless I'm executing a throw. Left once my free trial was done and went to the BJJ gym where we only wore pajamas for half the classes and didn't have to call the coach master.

>>757941
kek, Judo does truly have the worst rules.

>>757941
>Calling the coach "master"
I just call my coach by his first name.
If anybody asks, I say he's my judo coach.

And yeah, IJF rules are for fags.
None of the cool kids play with those rules.

>>755367
>responding to a pathological liar

>>757941
My first day in a BJJ gym I threw a guy with uchi-mata and was then informed that pulling guard is a better way of taking the fight to the ground. Left once my free trial was done and found a judo gym that was 1/5 the price and didn't have to call the coach master.

>>758013
I'll take things that never happened for 500, Alex

>>758013
Nice one. Would rate better if you were not just do assblasted. 1/10

>>758025
Not assblasted, just saying that anecdotal evidence means nothing.

Cross gripping in judo is fine with one hand, it's when you take an opposite side grip and a sleeve grip at the same time that the IJF rules have a problem, it may be stupid, but all rulesets have stupid shit, like no heel hooks in most IBJJF comps, doesn't mean that people don't practice it, and it's the same with judo rules, I still practice kata-guruma for instance.

>>758013

My Judo club costs indeed 1/5 of the next BJJ club here. And I call my Judo Teacher by his name.

>>749835
Just because your gym offers it, doesn't mean they know how to properly instruct it. Ive been to a lot of mma places and most of them offer bjj judo boxing muay that etc, but only really know how to instruct bjj and basic wrestling really well.

>>755367
>judo brown belt can survive without getting submitted vs a bjj brown belt.

except no.
a bjj blue could sub a judo black easily.

>>753389
Wait, if the BJJ student can use wrestling takedowns, the Judoka would be ill prepared to handle them
>B-BUT YOU CAN'T TOUCH MY PANTS

>>758123
>implying belts even matter and that fighters shouldn't be judged on their individual skill.

>>758128

Excepts the fact that there's plenty of throws who are exactly counters aginst leg attacks ( Tawara Gaeshi, Hikikomi Gaesh, Sumi Gaeshi, Tomoe Nage, ..), excepts the fact that leg grabbing is the easiest thing to counter anyway, except the fact counter throws are hopefully included in Judo again in some years and so on..

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9UwxDGGcEIc
>>758123

Totally depends on the fighters. Usually BJJ guys are better on the ground but they are neither invincible nor do blue belt "easily sub" a blackbelt with some tournament practice.

See here: >>752475

if bjj isn't the best martial art then why did royce gracie win UFC 1

>>758165

Because appart from Royce there was exactly 1 grappler in the match who didn't know shit about BJJ, let alone Royce Gracie:

>"I didn’t know who Royce Gracie was. When I saw him in his gi, I thought he was some karate guy (with no ground skills)." (K. Shamrock)

>>758172
so why did he win UFC 2

>>758175

Three Karate guys, two kickboxers, a Ninjutsu guy, a Wing Chun guy, someone "mixed martial artist" (Five Animals style of Kung Fu, Taekwondo, Aikido), a "Dutch Sambo expert and Greco-Roman Champion" (who was an adult cinema theater owner from the Netherlands in reality)..

Oh wait, there was indeed one fighter who could call himself a grappler. I guess that proves that BJJ is by far the strongest martial art ever.

>>758181
What about UFC 4

>>758181
BJJ is the best 1v1 martial art.

of course if you go against someone that knows wrestling, muay thai, and 4 other martial arts the BJJ guy may not win.

But against any opponent that only knows one martial art, bjj will win 9/10 times against a similar skill level opponent in their martial art

>>758252
Not if you are fighting on a hard surface m8.

>Helio had extra mats for when fought Kimura, still lost (would probably be dead if there were no mats).
>BJJ tournaments ban slamming despite mats

>>758399
>if if if if but but but but

just stop. mats or not bjj wins 9/10 times

you're one of those "OMG UR KNEES WILL EXPLOAD AND ILL SLAMM UUU" guys

>>758459
Not really.

Judo
Wrestling
Shooto
Catch Wrestling

You really going to pull guard on a hard surface when someone can punch?

File: leg-workout-routine-leg-anatomy.jpg (86KB, 520x450px) Image search: [Google]

86KB, 520x450px

>>758459
>>758503
>You really going to pull guard on a hard surface when someone can punch?
It's not just that; people can head-butt, and even bite.
Y'all ever think about getting someone into an arm bar, with your leg over their face, and then getting a chunk of your leg bit off?

>>758539
imagine someone had you in an arm bar and you bit his leg.

guess what the next thing is that breaks... your arm.

as bas rutten says, never fuck with someone that has a dominant position over you.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GeA__6aVkK0

>>758539
all the time actually
and then i break their arm
they can't bite
they have a broke arm.

>>758503
there goes you showing you have no idea about bjj..

pulling guard is a sportive technique, no one would do that in the street

>>758540
>>758541
i like to see them break my arm.
One good bite and they let go instantly.

File: 1361682991519.gif (4MB, 490x276px) Image search: [Google]

4MB, 490x276px

>>758540
>>758541
I didn't say having someone in an arm bar, I said getting someone into an arm bar.

File: standing armbar Rio World Champ.gif (3MB, 307x173px) Image search: [Google]

3MB, 307x173px

>>758544
there's more then one way to do an armbar.

>>758543
sigh.. after everything that is known about martial arts and combat you fucks still think biting someones leg will make them not try even harder to fuck you up

why do i continue to argue with kids online..

File: straight-armbar-lock.png (443KB, 650x300px) Image search: [Google]

443KB, 650x300px

>>758543
If you'd bite me like the filthy animal you are, I'd do everything years of training has taught me to FUBAR your arm.

Also how are you going to bite me through my jeans?

>>758575
this. I never not have jeans on... and even if i didnt, i think i can take the pain of you biting my leg...

>ITT: People who claim authority on getting bit when they haven't been bit really hard by another human being trying to fuck shit up before.

>>747909
So which would you guys recommend starting? There's a Judo and a BJJ place near me. The Judo place is taught by Texas A&M's Judo coach, and the BJJ/MMA place is pretty well renowned apparently since it's where MMA guy Bubba Bush trained (Brazos Valley MMA).

I don't have pricing for the BJJ place but Judo seems to run about $40 or so a month, but there are only 3, 1 hr classes a week. BJJ seems to offer much more frequent classes, but I suspect they're pricy. I'm not certain, mind you, since they don't have pricing on their site, but for their track record and the fact that it's BJJ, I don't suspect they're cheap.

I should be transferring to a full university from community college in 2 years or so and I can get 6 days a week, 2 hour sessions of Judo then anyway for free.

So if BJJ is miraculously ~$60 per month (I'm not paying more than that, that's fucking pushing it), which would be a better start?

>>758587
there's no way in hell bjj would be less than 60$ a month.

>>758252
What if I train in Filipino MA and start beating your ass with a stick?

>>758165
>if bjj isn't the best martial art
Because it's a really good ring system. It works wonders in a controlled, soft-ground, one-on-one, no-concealed-weapons, fixed-ruleset environment. It was like MADE to excell in this scenario.
But no, i'ts not the best MA ever. None is best. it depends on the situation.

>>758587
For BJJ you'd be looking at closer to $60/week, not $60/month.
Not even joking.

>>758542
But if you're consistently pulling guard in training and competition, you're more likely to do it in the street. You fight how you train, and that's why judo with it's better take downs is superior 1v1.

Question for the BJJ fags ITT:

If someone pulls guard on you and for some reason they just hug you like a koala and don't touch the ground (I've seen this in a few competition videos) are you allowed to slam them?

Because in Judo rules it's not a slam unless you're picking them up off the ground, so BJJ might have a similar definition.

Because I've gotta say, it'd be pretty fucking funny to see it happen.

>>758611
I swear to God if somebody did that I'd just totally go with this
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_nt42gFI6hQ&t=6m34s (6:35)

>>758612
Y'know, the more I think about it...
Beej players are really just the soccer players of the MA world.

>Lots of them
>Fucking HUEs everywhere
>Complain like little bitches at the slightest chance of injury
>Spend huge amounts of time shitposting on the internet about how they're the best

>>758611
Okay, I actually looked it up...

And it turns out BJJ literally bans any throws where you don't
>Deliver your opponent safely to the mat

Meaning that probably about 90% of actual throws are banned.

Here's a compilation of what apparently constitutes a slam in BJJ:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=yW0-FtqSFLs

It includes:
>A conventional double leg into a kata guruma
>Accidentally picking someone up 1cm from the mat while you work on passing the guard (or maybe he got DQed for the de ashi barai before it, who knows)
>A textbook kata guruma
>Dropping someone when he climbs onto you like he thinks he's a retarded backpack

>>758619
The amount of people getting KO'd from those slams, do they not practice ukemi in BJJ? Literally all of them could have been fine with good breakfalls.

>>758621
Most BJJ clubs don't do any ukemi at all.
They'd rather just ban throws than learn how to fall safely.

>>758622
But even then, there are lots of times where I take big falls without any ukemi at all (e.g. sode tsurikomi goshi, or even just an ouchi gari where my arms are tangled up) and I don't bitch even nearly as hard as these guys do. I just get back up and keep sparring.

They're rolling around on the ground screaming in pain and begging to be taken to the hospital.

I think it's widely accepted that everything above blue belt is not for fighting on the street, but to beat other grapplers on that level.

Also there's a clear difference between "sport BJJ" and "BJJ for MMA", as Roger Gracie said that 80% of BJJ is not usefull for MMA. If you have to watch out for stuff like ellbows to the face that changes a lot.

Best thing would be to cross train Judo with BJJ to get the best of both worlds.

>>758625
>Cross-train judo with BJJ
This, desu.
Do a year of BJJ 3-4 times a week alongside a light judo schedule of 2-3 times a week and you'll get basically everything worthwhile that you can from it.

But as a primary martial art, BJJ is a joke.

>>747909
Does everyone on this board calls traditionnal Jiu jitsu Judo ?
Or are all of you really talking about judo (as in, the olympic pajamas wrestling) ?

I'm new to this board and it all feels like an elaborate troll. Enlighten me.

>>758638
Traditional jiu jitsu was hit or miss.
Modern schools calling themselves "traditional jiu jitsu" are almost all complete crap.

When we say "judo", we mean judo.
When we say "jiu jitsu", we usually mean BJJ.

>>758643
>Traditional jiu jitsu was hit or miss.
What do you mean ?

>Modern schools calling themselves "traditional jiu jitsu" are almost all complete crap.
Well I think I get your point but that can't be universal. There are traditionnal JJ competitions after all.

What I don't get is that, in my country at least, you need a Judo license to practice Jiu jitsu. And since you need to know at least the basics of jiu jitsu to graduate second dan in Judo as a result most Jiu jitsu instructors really are Judo instructors, and most people taking up jiu jitsu have to learn judo to get the basic skills.

The main difference I saw then that while some teachers are just Judokas with some self defense notions (IE, mandatory katas for their dan), others trained their whole life in striking and ground game.

So then again, I ask : why promote Judo over Jiu Jitsu ? Why oppose them if not to protect the precious feels of the Kodokan and their money making olympic sport ?

If you're no good at Judo then you won't achieve shit in JJ. Even a good BJJ fighter should know his throws and footwork, instead of just limp slipping to the mat like a lazy fuck.

Plus, I really think the ban on ashi waza/ sutemi waza is the main reason BJJ gets so popular. Judo is becoming less and less based, and that sucks because it means people in mixed Judo/JJ classes now look down on standing techniques just because they became less rewarding.

>>758650
>Judo license
>You need to know at least the basics of jiu jitsu to graduate second dan in Judo
>There are traditional JJ competitions
??????

>>758651
You don't know mch, do you ?
http://www.jjif.info/index.php?id=17

And yes, you need to learn katas such as Goshin jitsu ans kime no kata to graduate past the black belt.
Can't be just in my country. Kodokan forced this shit upon us.

>>758652
>You need katas
Yeah, but those are judo katas.
Also, literally nobody likes doing katas.

And kek@those JJJ comps.
It looks like a krotty kick-fencing match.

File: KawaishiMikinosuke.jpg (5KB, 163x187px) Image search: [Google]

5KB, 163x187px

>>758651
>>758652
Then again, I think I have my answer somehow.

ITT : people that don't know shit about their own martial arts. Serves me well for talking sports on the internet.

>>758654
>Learning the history of your martial art is more important than actually learning how to fight and compete
JJJfags, everybody

>>758655
>Implying you learn to fight and compete when you don't know how competition and graduation works

Enjoy your amateur hour at your local shitty mcDojo.

>>758658
Enjoy your krotty kick fencing and low-level grappling

>>758653
>Judo kata with atemi.
Sure thing champ.

>Nobody likes doing kata
Not when they think cuddling grown men in pajamas is a martial art they don't.

>>758659
I am. Intensely.

As much as I enjoy that noone in this thread can go beyond Judo vs BJJ
Or the fact that you got butthurt because you couldn't explain why Judo is not Jiu jitsu without actual ground work and joint manipulation. Semi contact striking is crap, i'll give you that.

>>758662
No, judo is jiu jitsu without techniques that can't be safely trained (e.g. kani basami).

I've been watching videos of this stuff, and the groundwork is shit to nonexistant.

This is what you do, right?
This is keks galore.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=OD_99UNWOZE

Are you seriously implying that the crap in that video is better than judo groundwork?
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fa_W6e6qhVY

>>758663
Kek.
Kani basami is about as much dangerous as hadaka jime. Oh wait, you're allowed to do the rear naked choke right? Not going to snap your partner's neck with you surhuman judo tard strenght ?
Everything can be safely trained you dipshit.

Your first video is an amateur competition (nice yellow belts all over) and it's pretty hilarious yes.
Your second video... well it's Judo ne waza. So yes it's crappy. That was my point.

Training in a JJJ allows me to spar and train weekly with both BJJ and Judo practitionners. Because Ne waza and katas are a thing.

I think's it's retarded to pretend there is any difference between Judo, Ju jitsu and BJJ except for the rules. The more limitations you put, the less effective the training. That's just common sense.

>>758666
>Kani basami is about as much dangerous as hadaka jime. Oh wait, you're allowed to do the rear naked choke right? Not going to snap your partner's neck with you surhuman judo tard strenght ?

Not that other anon, but you're full of shit, kani basami was made illegal because it was constantly breaking bones.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=glwYurrthcc

>>758667
Yeah, that's why I was thaught that technique to get my yellow belt. I must be superman.

Breaking bones in competition =/= breaking bones in training. Learning a move doesn't mean you get to use it in competition.

>>758668
Or in the streets, for what matters.

>>758668
>>758669
You realise your anecdotal evidence means nothing right? I agree that practicing illegal competition techniques is still a good idea (kata guruma, morote gari, daki agi etc), but kani basami was banned because players were getting career ending injuries on the reg, and at a club level people were still breaking bones and straining limbs. Practice it all you want, your shitty JJJ still won't prepare you against a good judoka.

>>758679
It's not anecdotal.
Bjj practitionners also train on most of your forbidden moves and can use them in competition. So does JJJ fighters.
You're still missing my point : Given the fact that, in a real jjj/bjj dojo you would have to train on both judo and ne waza, how is "pure" judo better?

You're just learning/training less.

Seriously, the kodokan allowed ne waza competition just becaude bjj was giving them shade, otherwise it would be banned along jj to hide the fraud that is Judo.
There is a reason why the Judo masters Kano sent all over the world ended up teaching jujitsu and not judo to the locals. And that reason is : Noone needs pajama wrestling, except maybe to win olympics.

>>758679
Btw i do agree that, except judo training -wich i do-, nothing would prepare me to face a good judoka under judo rules.

>>758681
You're a special kind of retard, aren't you?

>>758684
Well I've been posting here for a while now, so I must be.

But I finally got all my answers.
>>758638
It WAS an elaborate troll thread after all
and
>>758651
>>758653
>>758663
>>758679
And noone here knows what they're talking about. Hell, i'm having doubts myself now.

But my anecdotal evidence have been blown to pieces by an amazingly extensive youtube video study, and I've been told that semi contact striking is cap, wichis true.

As a result, the newfag that I am will perform damage control routine on my assblasted persona and go cry in a corner while waiting for Kimura's ghost to manhandle me or some shit.

My fedora is literally spilling spaghettis all over the place as I tip it to you good sir

Pease don't cyber-bully me, least I will be forced to show you my true form.

>>758619
>Accidentally picking someone up 1cm from the mat while you work on passing the guard (or maybe he got DQed for the de ashi barai before it, who knows)
If it's 3:55 you're talking about, I think he basically punched his opponent in the face.

But yeah, there's several calls where takedowns were treated as slams. The 'delivering an opponent safely to the mat' only applies for someone who has guard/jumps guard by the way, any legal takedown can be done at full force.

>>758621
I've trained and visited a few places across the world, many don't seem to do breakfalls. In the place where I train, the only time breakfalls are done is when I occasionally happen to be the ranking student and teach class - and I've learned them through Aikido and Judo.

>>758619
>all those people getting knocked out from slams
Ive wrestled and been slammed like that a few times and never been knocked out or reacted like this. I think they are just a bunch of pussies.

>>758543
You don't bite someone that has you in an armbar. Its only going to piss them off.

Where do you guys live where Judo clubs are so common? There aren't any pure judo places in my town, just mma gyms that advertise that they can teach Judo but I know thats a load of shit. All of the owners are brown/black belts in BJJ, and have some amateur mma experience. No judo at all.

>>759182

In europe and Asia Judo is very common, in the states BJJ and Wrestling are more common I think..

>>759182
California has a shit load of judo dojos.
Hell the entire west coast.

>>759182
I'm in Aus.
Judo's nowhere near as big as BJJ, but it's still pretty big.

No wrestling at all, though.

>>759182
where i live there are a lot of judo places, but most of them train kids exclusively. those gyms that train adults have mostly black belts who have been training since they were kids and now they just meet up once a week. there are only a handful of places training adults more than once a week, two that are beginner friendly and only one place that actually offers beginner courses

>>759263
There's a small wrestling club at sydney uni on Fridays if you're around sydney. I'm pretty sure it's free if you're a judo club member. As is the bjj on tuesday after judo.

>>759272
Sounds good, but I'm a filthy Melbfag.

>>750534
That was so embarrassing to watch. Jesus fuck.

saving this thread from wrasslefags

>>759263
Being an Australian who wants to wrestle is suffering. Theres fucking nothing. Anywhere.

>>767802
Try living in Appalachia with nowhere to wrestle. No grappling anywhere