>Look and listen. They hold the keys. They always have. They

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gaslighting

Cena has been pushed for 13 years despite crowds hating him

>>3090358
you can push him to the door but that don't mean the door opens

>>3090392

A portion of fans boo because they first rebelled against WWE as it had become, and they blamed the face of thecompany for all the issues and the overall drop in quality of the product.

He shouldered all of that and carried a company that lost almost all their stars, lost it's place in the mainstream to a large degree outside of him, and started booking everything terrible slong with the PG Era. Meanwhile other fans started bandwagoning seeing hating Cena as being the cool thing to do. What was once a protest of the WWE being the same old shit became a bunch of idiots who actually convinced themselves that Cena was the problem, and that Cena couldn't wrestle, despite him being in many of their favorite matches.

If you actually go to live shows, you see even the smarkiest of crowds usually turn back and start cheering Cena or commending his match if it is a longer, more serious match. Cena comes out to boo's in Bizarro World and leaves to the whole place cheering him.

Reigns was seen as a guy pushed above more talented guys, like Daniel Bryan, who almost everyone loved, CM Punk before he left, who had a sizeable fanbase, and other wrestlers who he went over. Reigns literally can't talk, and only has good matches when thy are booked tohell with a good opponent.

Cena sold more merch than everyone else combined, and held on to fans when WWE rightfully should have died.

Reigns taking over after Bryan left made 1.5 plus million people stop watching.

Reigns never has and never will draw anything near to what Cena drew, and he will never have the respect Cena had.

Cena came up when Orton, Lesnar and Randy were supposed to be the guys, and Cena overcame them.

WWE literally booked everything and everyone to protect Roman and not look better than him, and it made the product worse than ever.

>>3090416
He must have had a real hard time overcoming both Orton and Randy.

HLR, fellow cenation member! :)

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>>3090416
fuckin THIS^

>>3090416
>Cena comes out to boo's in Bizarro World and leaves to the whole place cheering him.
This is actually strangely true. It's like people are conditioned to boo his entrance regardless of what he's doing. Soon enough CENA SUCKS is going to be YOU SUCK for Kurt.

>>3090392
Cena was pretty over his first 7-8 years. After that fans started booing him. His character just became stale.

>>3090358
Keys to getting THE GUY push
>good looking
>manly
>tall
>eat meat
>pump iron
>have good physique
>be durable
>star presence or charisma

helps but not essential
>support Donald Trump
>good promo

>>3090392
Very true. But remember that, unlike Roman, Cena was at one point over as a single competitor.

>>3090426
Undoubtedly
Singing the "JOHN CENA SUUUUUUUUUUUUUUCKS" to his theme song will be his version of the YOU SUCK they do for Kurt Angle. No real malice behind it anymore, just a fun way to interact with the entrance. When Cena goes in the HOF the fans will sing that to his music and it will be taken as a show of respect.

>>3090444
Being a good promo is arguably the #1 key thing to being a top guy in WWE, it is most definitely an essential.

>>3090446
If you don't think Roman is over you don't know what over means. Stop embarrassing yourself.

>>3090444
Your shitty politics don't matter, spergy.

Cena has had great matches with Khali, Lashley and Sabu.

Roman only has great matches with great workers.

People love to see Cena, even if they despise him. Booing Cena is part of the fun and you know you're likely to get a good match.

Booing Roman feels much more genuine.

>>3090452
Reigns proves otherwise.
Vince liking you is #1 key.

>>3090456
Roman has been carrying strowman all year ya goof.

>>3090444
>Promos
>Not essential for being THE GUY
Jesus fuck is this the level of damage control we've gotten to now? First ring work and charisma don't matter, and now it's mic work doesn't matter? This is some next level goal post moving.

>>3090358
WWE knows their cult fans will watch no matter what

/thread

>>3090452
Jinder, Roman, Baron Corbin and Big Cass are all getting huge pushes. Not one of them can speak.

We've reached the point where charisma isn't even a factor anymore, fucking hell.

cena is either completely insane or thinks bryan getting the title at wrestlemania meant the fans actually matter

the only reason bryan won that fucking title at mania was because they wanted to get people to buy network subs. vince is insane and actively tries to spite his viewers as much as possible and will sink his company doing it

cutting off his nose to spite his face is vince mcmahon's specialty and not one person backstage has the balls to call him on it

>>3090477
So they've just thrown out all pretense at this stage and now the only metric is "How hard can they make Vince's shriveled up old raisin dick?"

>>3090464
As I've already said.

Vince liking you is the #1 thing. If you still haven't figured this out yet I can't help you out any further.

Vince liking you > promos/charisma

>>3090463
other way around my guy

strowman had a fucking 4 star match with big show for fuck's skae. it's pretty clear this guy is a prodigy and hes learning fast

>>3090456
Sabu can actually wrestle tho

>>3090453
You really can't spin rejection as being a good thing just because it's loud rejection.

>>3090499
Reigns had 4 star match (according to Meltzer) with Big Show before Strowman.

Did Dave really rate Braun/Big Show 4 stars? I find that hard to believe knowing Dave's biases against Big man style of work

>>3090426
>>3090448
It literally already is. I don't think any crowd does "JOHN CENA SUUUUUUCKS" seriously anymore.

This is just an anecdote, but I live in Michigan and I go to shows in Detroit. Detroit's a pretty smarky crowd. Last year on the July 11th Raw, it was Enzo and Cass versus the club, AJ said Cena wasn't there. Later, a chant started. "WE WANT CENA!" "NO WE DON'T!" "WE WANT CENA!" "NO WE DON'T!" it was all in good fun, but later on, when Cena's music hit and he came out to make the save for Enzo and Cass, the place fucking came unglued. Loudest pop of the night (except maybe Ambrose, who was also super over that night). People were so fucking happy to see him.

Same thing happened at the house show last month that ended with a Detroit Street Fight, Cena vs. Rusev. We did the "JOHN CENA SUUUUUCKS" thing with his music. He actively encouraged it. And then the crowd was absolutely totally behind him for the entire match.

Cena is pretty much just beloved at this point, unless he's taking on someone people really like, like Miz or AJ and even then, he can still get 'em on his side.

Thank you captain obvious

>>3090502
t. Never saw Sabu in a non hardcore match

>>3090499
>>3090509
Y'all implying Big Show isn't a solid worker when he actually tries. Granted, he can be lazy and uninteresting, but when he's on form he's good. The matches with Seamus (granted, another good wrestler) and fucking Snitsky spring to mind.

>>3090502
Can he?

>>3090509
>>Did Dave really rate Braun/Big Show 4 stars?

oh i was just giving my opinion. i really liked that match

>>3090453
The Shield was over. Reigns was getting booed almost immediately into his singles push, and Dean was getting louder pops than him from the start of the breakup, and the discrepancy of reaction only got more dramatic as time went on, to the point Vince intentionally booked Dean as a wacky loser and then Roman's sidekick.

>>3090533
>>Y'all implying Big Show isn't a solid worker when he actually tries.

this. and in the strowman match you guys are talking about, he was trying REALLY hard. there were oceans of sweat coming off based beeg's head

>>3090420
He also had to overcome the Game, the King of Kings, the Cerebral Assassin AND the Asskicker.

>>3090441
It was 4-5 years.

It was Hogan that got frequently booed after 7-8 years.

About the same amount of time afterwards, the nWo and a year long match build up began in Hogan's case, while the same WrestleMania match happened twice with sporadic build-up just to get a win back in Cena's case. One redeemed his legacy and the other cemented it.

Chronologically, with a slow reversal of the trend of booing in both cases as well, Cena would be having Hogan in Montreal or WM18 level cheering at this point, and with twice as big of a propaganda machine behind him.

I don't need to explain how that hasn't happened. All this goes to show is that Cena hasn't changed any large number of people's opinion; he's just convinced the drooling smarks that "at least he's more charismatic than Roman, anyone but you, Roman!". For comparison, that is like if Hogan was sent to face Lesnar instead of Austin and quit WWE over it instead of him. And then tried to bury Lesnar.

Do you see the pattern? By the time Hogan retired, there were four or five wrestlers who could stand toe to toe with him in skill and popularity (not fame, though).

To get to the point: Cena's been the 'Final Boss' of wrestling since Batista left, and he couldn't fill the same shoes that Brock, for instance, is to this day proving that he could've.

So when someone talks about Reigns replacing Cena, understand that nothing replaces Cena. He was not the Captain of the Ship who turned out to be a fool. He has always been the Kraken.

>>3090420
Just like the time he buried both Baron Corbin and The Lone Wolf in a handicap match.

>>3090559
He was actually pretty over and got very loud pops in 2014 (video proof: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=AqTGgtYorfk ). It was when he got injured he simmered down and rumors of him being the potential FOTC did he start to get boos.

>>3090416
All the people that genuinely hated Cena stopped watching wrestling a long time ago after it became clear Vince would never replace his golden boy. The people that genuinely chanted Cena sucks are into UFC now. The smarks are nerds and they're infamous for siding with companie no matter what, hence the comparisson to a cult, and they can still maintain their "nerd cred" by booing Roman

>Hey Roman I need my heat back lol brapadoooooooo love me now everyone

>>3090667
Cena got over as a cocky white rapper. There's nothing that sells more on murrica than a white boy acting like a negro, ask Elvis (he had injun blood but he looked white enough). Then Vince turned him into Super Cena, a bland corporative mascot and only lame white kids still liked him

>>3090676
I saw a similar post in another thread, I think it was from you, but I disagree about UFC. MMA has leeched the wrestling audience, but I have mostly stopped watching but would never watch MMA.

>>3090498
I'm not arguing whether or not this is established fact, because it more or less is. I'm just saying how fucking ridiculous all this goalpost moving is. All previous top guys/top babyface were at least close to a total package. Good in ring performer, charismatic and can get at least 90% pops, cutting great promos. That was the criteria since time immemorial.

>Roman can't wrestle that well
>"In ring work doesn't matter, charisma, looks and mic work matter!"
>Roman's promos are subpar
>"Promos don't matter, they're all scripted anyway. Charisma and looks are the most important."
>Roman can't get a crowd behind him more than 40-60
>Lol he gets a reaction tho XD

See the problem here?

A couple of years ago, everyone hated both Cena and Braun. One for literally being Cena, the other for being an absolute noob pushed on the main roster based on his size * look alone. Now both are beloved by pretty much everyone.
You don't even have to turn Reigns heel at this point. Literally just book any old babyface who's struggling to get over to kick his shit in thoroughly and the cheers are pretty much guaranteed.
Don't agree that Reigns isn't a draw either. Fans are far from apathetic to him. More and more fans hate the guy, meaning more and more fans will want to tune in/subscribe/buy tickets/etc to watch him get his comeuppance or at least get thrown around a la Strowman. And when it does happen, everyone goes bananas.
Reigns, at least the way he's been booked, is pretty much the Chad of wrestling. A hugely unlikeable cunt, but an extremely (kayfabe or otherwise) tough cunt nevertheless. And you need guys like that on TV.

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>>3090416
Fine speech.

I'd also like add that Roman is a great role model for kids.

>>3090685
Because MMA is seen as badass while wrestling is lame and childish. Cena is the poster boy for the PG era and he's the personification of blandness and safety

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Only difference is Cena was cheered when he was on Smack. It wasn't until a couple month into his Raw move that fans stared to sour on him. When Roman was cheered he was part of a group and I can't even remember him ever being cheered as an individual.

>>3090688
The craziest thing about this is I've seen people actually say that Austin and Rock didn't have good matches, thus, wrestling doesn't matter. What the fuck?

>>3090667
>that pop when Reigns almost got eliminated