/mag/ Martial arts general

If I take up Greco-Roman, will I die?

>>2845703
Probably not, but the injury rate is quite high I hear, due to the common 'suplex from everywhere' style.

>>2845703
It would be...extremely painful.

>>2845866
You're a big guy

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>>2845866
You're a big guy

>>2845930
Aw man, I wish I could do wrestling. Alas, nowhere to train wrestling where I live.

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>This is the most successful Judo fighter in the history of MMA
hmmm... so the greatest judoka in MMA history fought in the women's division and got BTFO and exposed....

interesting......

>>2846094
Isn't that the match where she tried to outbox the kickboxer?

>>2846094
>most successful Judo fighter in the history of MMA
That would be Satoshi Ishii, the gold medallist. He did OK at the top levels of competition, but lost to better opponents. Don't forget about guys like Rhadi Ferguson or Hector Lombard

Anyway to condition knuckles and shins aside from bag work?

>>2846106
>>2846192
What's with the "judo sucks" meme lately? I mean, everybody used to think judo was top tier, but until these previous threads it have been a lot of shitposting about why it doesn't.

>>2846234
Ignoramuses trying to feel important by spouting opinionating wank without having a proper grasp of the subject at hand. As per usual.

>>2846225
Hitting things that are not too hard and not too soft
knuckle push-ups

>>2846234
>its almost like we take turns on what ma to shit on

>>2846234
Judo is shit-tier compared to wrestling.

A year of wrestling + bjj will beat 10 years of judo.

>>2846234
Probably wrasslefags shitposting and false-flagging. Or that old shitposter who wouod never stop posting about "hurrdurr tmacucks"

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Edgy Brah would slay 100% of tmacucks.

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any boxers here? I do krav maga and every Friday we improve our striking technique with boxing (sometimes kick or mma) and I want to improve. I have previous boxing experience (I've even won an amateur boxing match in an event) but I've only trained for 1.5 years. My technique kinda evolved on a Roy Jones Jr. type where I juke the hits and fight back. It doesn't always work though and my punches come out weak despite making contact. I also rarely use my right hand for striking besides the occasional 1-2 and some hooks. Any tips on how to improve? Should I just scrap my current style and stick to the basics?
sorry for the huge text

>>2846389

>A year of wrestling + bjj will beat 10 years of judo.

It's pretty stupid to compare wrestling and Judo.
What ruleset would they use?

>"I have you on your back, I won!"
>"No, you are in my guard, you are gonna lose!"


That said, Judoka can hang with wrestlers just fine. And the other way arround.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9UwxDGGcEIc

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7HS68izIuQQ

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9UwxDGGcEIc

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4HiyCM6-90w

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_TMs9juzqI8


When will you people stop hating on Judo?
It's the fighter, not the style.

>"Hurr, BJJ always wins against Judo"

Once again you are wrong. It's the fighter, not the style.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=AAeFSeElqzE

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wb3BbbKOdtw

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gLjOg0DBjTo

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=AAeFSeElqzE

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1LEe8ik2stI

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nIDcXBEytXE

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=J5Jc1hxevSQ

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=drdzwRvneAA

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=--bq_dCimV8

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=cSsx40vMT2U


Of course the majority of BJJ is about ground fighting and most bluebelts can already bring a Judo shodan in serious problems. But don't underestimate Judo.

>>2845670
>WHAT TO LOOK FOR IN A MARTIAL ARTS GYM:

be unbiased and objective to see anything in the first place
- the coaches Are knowledgeable
- the coaches are able to evaluate students objectively
- the coaches can use their knowledge to solve problems and answer questions logically
- the physical conditioning methods follow scientifically valid facts
- in turn, people get better, people have fun, because of the fact that that's what makes a good gym, not despite the fact

>>2846234
Judo is about throwing people which is very much a secondary skill in modern MMA. Being as many here equate success in MMA with all combative situations they assume judo is a third tier art

I'm gonna start training muay thai in august, what should I expect? And does anyone have any tips for beginners? I have no experience in striking arts except for a year of TKD, but yeah, TKD.

>>2846854
start running now

>>2846857
Would doing the couch to 5k challenge be good, or should I be running faster for shorter time periods? I'm thinking since muay thai rounds are 3 minutes, it would be better to train for going hard in periods of 3 minutes rather than marathon pace for 30 minutes.

>>2846721
You should learn and do everything.

>>2846867
both are important

>>2845670
Is bullshido.net reputable?
If so, they have an online encyclopedia that can be added to the OP: https://www.bullshido.org/Main_Page

> friend is instructor at gym
> gym does general MMA practice/instruction
> consider attendance once my money's leveled out post-college
> time passes
> passively mention during conversation that a friend of mine is a boxer
> "lol, why would he do that to himself! XD"
never mind...

>>2847006
>never mind...
It doesn't matter what the opinions of the people are like, there's always something that can be learned from the instruction.

>>2846389
Not even remotely true. A high school wrestler would be demolished by a good judoka with that many years of experience. Look up jason Morris.

How do I get back into BJJ I hurt my toe really bad awhile back and so I had to take time off and now I'm having a hard time going back now that it's been healed for a few months

>>2846094
You mean other than fedor Emelianenko and akiyama?

>>2846564
I another forgot about him.

How big of an ego to you have to have name yourself """"""based""""""" mma guy?

I want to get into martial arts but the only one offered by my school is Tang Soo Do, which I know nothing about. Is it worth learning at all?

>>2847764
If they spar it's better than NOTHING, if they don't, just don't bother. Waste of money.

>>2845901
>>2845930
If I took of your singlet, would you die?

>>2847773
Well like I said, it's offered through the school so it's free. I just checked the website and it said they do spar so I'll definitely look more into it.

>>2847795
Oh yeah, in that case I guess it will be fine.

>Wanting to get into martial arts in some form again
>Had shocking experience with mcdojo as a child and parents forcing me to go
>Eventually pick a couple of styles and decide to base it off what the gym is like
>Find one bjj place 10 mins from my house that seems promising but needs further investigation
>Small city so was expecting to have to drive a bit, but figure might as well start close and work way out
>Organise a trial lesson, rock up
>Got there early, waiting in a lounge area
>Looking around and the dread starts to creep in
>Walls lined with pictures of famous martial artists
>Stacks of trophys
>Adverts for kids classes with huge advertising slogans
>Belts lining the walls
>Special promo stuff all over the place
>Feel like I've been baited
>Instructor comes out and greets me
>Turns out the bjj class is seperate from the other areas of the club
>Instructor fantastic
>Takes me through a quick warmup, shows me some basics for about 30 minutes
>Immediately takes me to spar with a newer member
>Spend a total of ~an hour and a half sparring with newer guy and some more experienced people
>Older members take it on themselves to give me and the newer guy pointers
>Instructor and all members incredibly friendly and giving advice on everything, including on recovery
>A few that I met do competitions, instructor seems to have done well for himself in that regard

So I'm pretty much entirely sold. Apparently I went to a more relaxed open mat session and he does more formal classes other times in the week, so he's said to come along to one of those next week.

Should I even bother trying other gyms? Feels like I got lucky first go with this one.

>>2847809
>Should I even bother trying other gyms?
Doesn't matter. You'll get to all of them eventually,right?

>>2847809
I'm betting the BJJ guy just rents the space from the McDojo.

I'd recommend trying out the other places anyways.

You might find something else you like and want to do both. Crosstraining is always good.

>>2846969
For starters, bullshido is well known, but I'm not sure how trustable it is. Lately, they have this hardcore sceptic vibe, which on itself isn't bad, is just they have been criticizing anything that isn't 100% hardcore science, relegating martial arts to a mere section. I wouldn't be surprised if at some point they start publishing articles about why religion sucks and put a fedora on their logo. Also, given their attitude, they tend to ignore evidence that shows they're wrong.

But, what about the linked encyclopaedia? Looking at it, is way, way too short, and basically offers nothing that couldn't be found on blackbeltwiki. By example, the kick page n the striking subsection is, literally, one line about what a kick is. Meanwhile, blackbeltwiki have dozen videos and explanations about how to perform different kicks.

I wouldn't add it, but I think anybody can start a new /mag/, so if anyone want to include it, they are free to do so.

>>2848095
>I wouldn't be surprised if at some point they start publishing articles about why religion sucks

Oups, too late...

http://www.bullshido.net/idaho-faith-healing-parents-permanently-disable-daughter-through-prayer/
>The evidence is clear: prayer does not cure disease.
>The long-term solution, as always, is education and promotion of scientific literacy to combat ignorance and a shamefully medieval understanding of the world.

No, I'm not claiming faith healing works, or the article is wrong. What I'm claiming is that I don't want to go into a place called bullshido.net to read about anything else, but mcdojos and their dumb situations.

>>2848095
blackbelt wiki has 20 styles of karate, this has 3, but the articles themselves are a lot more detailed rather than being just a moveset encyclopedia
I'd add it as a second resource
but it seems like some OPs just copy and paste the /fit/ one

>>2848155
I should correct myself, in terms of knowing the curriculum, it's 100 times better blackbelt wiki, in terms of understanding what the style is and how it works, it's better this one

>>2847576
>A sambist, who says he's a sambist, trains primarily in sambo, and wears a sambo gi to walkouts and interviews
>hurr durr must be a judo guy
>a jap who was protected by japanese mma organizations who got exposed as soon as he got brought into the UFC (2-5 UFC record)
>truely the best fighter judo can produce
so this.... is the power................ of judo.....................

>>2848422
>>.....................
all those dots make you look like a fucking retard, no matter what comes before it, just a heads up

>>2848427
He's memeing and "ironically" shitposting. He's almost certainly a wrasslefag who crossposts on places like /v/, or maybe even /pol/, but only as a dedicated shitposter who never actually contributes.

>>2848502
damn I took the bait
I just know so many people who does that unironically but I'm too beta to point it out so I'm really eager when I have the chance to do it anonymously

>>2847552
[classic 'do it faggot' /b/ response]

Any reviews and/or opinions of Kali Sikaran? And how much 'Sikaran' (kicking) does it actually have?

>>2848422
>Fedor Vladimirovich Emelianenko (Russian: Фёдop Bлaди́миpoвич Eмeлья́нeнкo, tr. Fyodor Vladimirovich Yemelyanenko, IPA: [ˈfʲɵdər vlɐˈdʲimʲJrəvʲJtɕ jJmʲJˈlʲjænʲJnkə])[10] (born 28 September 1976) is a Russian heavyweight mixed martial artist (MMA), sambist, and judoka, currently competing for Rizin Fighting Federation and Bellator MMA. He has won championships and accolades in multiple sports, most notably in MMA Pride Fighting Championships (heavyweight champion 2003-2007), FIAS World Combat Sambo Championship (Heavyweight Champion 2002, 2005, 2007), and Russian Judo Federation National Championship (Bronze medal 1998, 1999).
>1st Razryad Grand Master in Sambo
Black belt and International Master of Sport in Judo
>Emelianenko has showed a high level acumen of hip throws from judo and sambo to bring his adversary to the ground, preferring to work from the clinch as opposed to traditional wrestling takedowns.[18]
>"lol not a judoka"

>>2849181
The entirety of FMA is a joke. Do HEMA, kendo, or sport fencing instead.

>>2849205
He trains Sambo and fights sambo style. He himself has said this. Just because he's good enough to destroy judobetas in judo competition doesn't make him a judoka. Same as a wrestler going to a judo competition isn't a judoka, it's a wrestler in a judo competition.

Stop trying to claim Fedor just because you don't have any legit fighters.

>>2846723
He's usually right, But bjj+judo is fantastic!

>>2846867
conditioning is not for fighting, it is for training. If you gas out hitting pads you're doing it wrong.

>>2845670
The whole "kids with black belts" issue is only a problem for westerners. It's never been uncommon to go to Japan and find 9-year-old blacks in their martial arts schools. It's not that they've devalued the significance of the black belt but rather that occidentals placed a premium on it that was never widespread or long embedded in the styles' culture of origin.

Black belts aren't supposed to represent mastery of anything except the basics. All the first degree black belt, or shodan, signifies is that the student has demonstrated enough commitment and practice to begin the "real" training. It's why the "kyu" ranks below black, which a lot of modern schools break into a rainbow of colors, count backwards and the black belt grades count forwards. Students are adding to their knowledge base what's meant to be the steady and recurrent toolkit for the phase of their continuing education starting at shodan.

So I don't believe that the presence of kids' classes or kids with higher belt degrees represents anything of value, because kids have been given age-appropriate training in various arts for centuries and the belts shouldn't carry that kind of prestige in the first place. You should judge a training hall by how they run their adult classes, how they evaluate students for promotion, and the competency of the teachers according to their own merits.

>>2849210
Boxing or kickboxing with wrestling are literally all you need. Pretty much every martial art not invented by white people is "bullshido" and won't work when really put to the test.

>>2849755
When japanese kids get a hobby they put all their effort into it
When a western kid gets a hobby he/his parents are just looking for something to give him attention

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>Wrestling
>Muay Thai
>BJJ
>Krav Maga
>Parkour/Free running
Would you consider this a good combination for IRL fighting scenarios?

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>>2849983
Krav is useless in there.
Parkour is not a ma.
Any combination of the ma left is good.

>>2850010
Why is Krav Maga useless?

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>>2850015
Krav Maga is Hebrew for the ancient art of separating goyim from their shekels.

It's Ameridote without the irony and even more groin stomping.

>>2849983
Usually the right combination people suggest is some striking art and some grappling art.

As for striking, usually either muay thai, boxing or some styles of karate. As for grappling, is wrestling, judo or bjj.

Jiu jitsu is a good option too, as it combines striking and grappling, but some schools focus more on one or another, and in mma scenarios is more common to see jiu jitsu.

Krav and BJJ are bullshit. Ameri Do Te is all you need

>>2850015
If you're not already an proefficient/experienced fighter in a non-meme discipline, it is useless due to poor teaching structure.

>>2846969
Already I'm unimpressed with this wiki as it copies and pastes a lot of the original wikipedia articles on the Korean martial arts without staying true to their name and calling the rampant bullshitting in Korean styles from their imaginary histories to their questionable techniques.

>>2850015
Krav is like Ameridote except completely unironic.

>>2849853
boxing is just about as bullshit as it gets. Don't get its past popularity as a spectator sport and thus widespread teaching confused with it actually being a good way to fight

>>2849805
qt

>>2849210
>The entirety of FMA is a joke.
Whats wrong with it?

>>2850015
It's easier to teach an MMA fighter the few good stuff from Krav than it is to teach a Krav guy how to fight.

>>2850762
My HEMA coach comes from an FMA background.

Basically he says a lot of it is bullshit. A lot of the fancy Doug Marcaida shit only works on a compliant partner that's letting him do it. There are some good FMA styles and they're the ones that are pretty simple.

>>2845670
>kenka banchou otome 01.webm
>girl beats boys
w8 wut... Is that a grill?

>tfw reverse-trap anime

>>2850969
>A lot of the fancy Doug Marcaida shit only works on a compliant partner that's letting him do it.
Maybe if you're a trained HEMA practitioner. The more normal your opponent is, the easier it is to do fancy Doug Marcaida shit just like it is with any other fancy martial arts techniques.

>>2851081

Yes, the pink hair character is a grill with a twin brother who decides to swap places with her. So he have to dress and behave like a girl while his sister dress and behaves like a boy, which includes beating the living crap out of everybody else in the school.

Don't get your hopes high, though. Is a short anime, the fights are like the OP (two or three punches), then cut into some monologue short scene, and many of the topics are briefly mentioned, like the boy becoming a sissy, which is the gag for two or three scenes through the entire show.

Is basically Wasted potential: the anime.

>>2845670
so a couple months ago, i went to my first martial arts tournament.

did any of you guys when you went to you first martial arts tournament, did ever get that feeling of inferiority or fear after seeing the other fighters?

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>>2851346
Fear? Nah. I see hope, that if I continue my training, I will be as good as them.

>>2851346
Sure. But then again, I was facing the equivalent of D1 and D2 fighters while having barely 2 years of experience myself.

>>2851544
What's D1 and D2 mean?

Whatever happened to TKDbro or Benry or Folkstyle or any of the other namefags?

>>2850018
>fighting with VATS

>>2850108
Yeah, seems like the people who feel worthy of making the page do said martial art and make a sanitized article

>>2851640
Hwa Rang Do is an untapped source of lulz in the martial arts. Just look at their goddamn ranking system.

http://hwarangdo.com/training/rank-requirements/hwa-rang-do-dan-degrees/

>SA SANG HAK ~ Study of the four quadrants of the mind
>YAK BANG BOP ~ Study of Oriental herbal medicine
> JEOP Gul SUL ~ Study of bone setting
> DOK SHIM SUL – Study of reading human mind
>CHE MYUN SUL – Study of putting a person to sleep

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_jNiNqZlDz0

>Not practicing Cuck Sool Won

>>2851552
First and second division aka people that will savagely wreck your bottom.

>>2849983

Absolutely overkill.

One standup fighting style + One grappling stlye (+ maybe one style with weapons) = more than enough

If you train Boxing and Judo with enough effort for a year you can already fuck up 90% of all the people out there. And if you train 5 more years it's maybe 95%. Why? It's diminishing returns, because there will always be a bigger fish.


>>2850594

Not this stupid shit again. I'm so tired of posting the millions of "boxer fucks up 3 dudes in 3 seconds" videos.

>hurr, kickboxing always wins! Just kick his leg!! xD

Yes, I've already posted dozens of "Boxing vs. MuayThai street fight" videos in the past and the boxers were always pretty good. Sometimes they won, sometimes they lost.


>b-but muh """boxing champion""" against Ignashov video

Yes, a stupid no name boxer was once busted by the best NakMuay in history. Your point? If the kickboxer can keep distance he has an advantage. If the boxer gets close he has the advantage. It's that simple.

Boxing has incredibly good footwork and has proven itself so many times on the streets, it's not even funny.
Of course Kickboxing or MuayThai are great systems, but making fun of boxing is stupid as hell.


>>2850969

>My HEMA coach comes from an FMA background.

Funny, my FMA teacher had a HEMA background.

HEMA is King with long weapons, but whenever I watch a HEMA short range weapon video (i.e. "lange messer") I cringe from all the mistakes I see.

FMA does one thing very well: it prepares you for short range weapons and CQC. Surviving a knife is tough, but if there is any style that can teach you how it can be done, it's FMA. I do agree that there are some sub par FMA styles out there, though. But a great FMA style is direct, nasty, logical and comprehensive.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-mjIxHQ9bP4

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=J2YDyXM6gCU

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bz6WccdBfvs

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0pn_QSTB5lc

>>2852529
>boxer fucks up 3 dudes in 3 seconds
ever hear of a punchers chance? someone getting dropped with a punch doesn't mean boxing won the day

boxing is stupid because the whole "system" is designed around wearing big pillows on your hands to protect yourself with
modern boxing has no defensive applications once the gloves come off. Why do you think ye olde time fisticuffs boxers stood in that long stance with arms stretched out? it's not that they didn't know what they were doing, it's because parrying like you would in karate is how you have to fight when bare knuckle because shelling doesn't work without gloves

bare knuckle fighting in europe and asia came to the same conclusion of how you need to stand. independently of each other. Then some people came and put on gloves which entirely changed the meta, and retards think the way you fight with gloves on is the same as you should fight with no gloves

it's the same reason bjj gets obliterated by wrestling the moment you aren't wearing a gi anymore, and why it needed to be completely rebuilt from the ground up to stay relevant in MMA. Your weapon is gone

>>2852659
BJJ (and judo for that matter) works on guys in suits too, and if you're not fighting guys in suits you're fighting the wrong guys

>>2852659

Oh boy, here we go..

I do agree that there are some differences in bare knuckle and boxing. Basically "soft targets" get more important and when you strike at the face, you use less force.

But the basic strategies remain the same. The punching defense stays the same. Boxing is considered the gold standard of punching because they have only a few strikes, but a million different ways to pull them off.

Boxing is like chess, and while the non-boxer only sees "two dude walk at a boxer.. *boom, *boom*, they are down", the boxers sees "a feint to open him up, then a power jab and a left hook with pivoting to get out of the power, turning towards the other guy, see the arm is hanging low, use the opening, left-right and he is done". It's incredibly meta and fluid and the tactic to use feet for continuous movement makes it very hard to even hit the boxer back. While a kick (even a lowkick) keeps you at a place, a boxer can punch while moving away or while closing in.


BTW boxing had kicks back in the days but apparently they didn't found it that useful. So I'm not arguing that kicking is effective - eventually it's better to have more options. But while there are many examples of great fighters that don't use kicks, you won't find a single good fighter that is not decent with punching. No matter if we are talking about doormen, police officers or the army, nobody in his right mind would doubt the effectiveness of boxing. After all the face is the most vulnerable area and the hands are the closest to the face. It's simple physics.


>it's the same reason bjj gets obliterated by wrestling the moment you aren't wearing a gi anymore

Dude, I'm not even a BJJ guy, but you know that BJJ guys train 50% of their time in rash guard (without gi)? It'S pretty effective even without a gi. Not saying Wrestling isn't.


Basically every full contact martial art is worth it's money, that's a fact.

>>2852741
all of what you're saying is great for sport boxing, but boxing footwork is only valid when you're fighting in the pocket. Boxers have no meaningful forward or backward movement, and only fight at punching range in a very close stance that would get toppled over by a low kick.
and I'm going to out and say it, hooks are a shitty punch and only exist because boxing rules say you need to land with your knuckles. Any other part of your hand is a superior striking surface when coming from the side, including your forearm and elbow.
It's a dumb short range punch that leaves you exposed and should never see any practice outside of a boxing match.
one of those antiquated things people haven't let go of yet

>>2852529
>FMA does one thing very well: it prepares you for short range weapons and CQC. Surviving a knife is tough, but if there is any style that can teach you how it can be done, it's FMA.

I agree. My HEMA coach said a lot of the dagger system we practiced is just his FMA stuff transplanted over. You can compare the manuscripts and the FMA techniques and a lot of them are largely the same.

>>2852809
Hooks developed independently in martial arts in different geographic areas, though, so they had to have had a reason for practicing them.

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>>2852659
>modern boxing has no defensive applications once the gloves come of
What is bob weave and roll?
You fucking cunt.
>bare knuckle fighting in europe and asia came to the same conclusion of how you need to stand
I got caugnt, hook, line and sinker.
>it's the same reason bjj gets obliterated by wrestling the moment you aren't wearing a gi anymore.
Like in the early UFC or in ADCC perhaps?
2/10, first bait were good, then it went down the sinker.

>>2853018

In my gym collegiate wrestlers get wrecked by BJJ guys in no-gi every day. Just because you can take someone down doesn't mean you can handle them on the ground.

>>2853018
early ufc had gis, it has always been a point of contention as a matter of fact that royce gracie choked ken shamrock with the sleeve of his gi. BJJ fell out of favor once people stopped wearing them. The very existence of 10th planet was eddie bravos attempt at keeping bjj relevant in a no gi environment

and its weird you think head movement is a proprietary boxing thing, all striking arts use head movement to avoid attacks, and that head movement is combined with blocks and parries that actually work
distance>block>slip
that's how it works. The head movement is there in case your block fails, you aren't supposed to fight assuming you have the reflexes to dodge everything coming at you at point blank

>>2853063
there isn't anything brazilian about no gi jiujitsu, it's a completely different style, many old school brazilian lineages shun it because it's not traditional. bjj is a fun sport, its a bad martial art

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>>2852941

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>>2853115
>The very existence of 10th planet was eddie bravos attempt at keeping bjj relevant in a no gi environment
Stop drinking the cool aid.
>>2853063
This is what I mean
ADCC early winners are 90% brazilians and 95% bjj bread.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/ADCC_Submission_Wrestling_World_Championship

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>>2853063
I like to interject that wrestling is just more then taekdowns, all grappling styles share some aspects of scrambling etc, and the rulesets evolve and develop specialties

A lot of newcomers to grappling or people that dont really train forget that wrestling offers a very deep ground game even though there are no subs and the current meta game of top level MMA shows that.

Currently when you look at high level MMA you see that BJJ and well just tradtional guard games are struggling. The major sub finishes are the RNC and gullutione . Subs from guard like the triangle, armbar, and kimura become rarer and rarer. This is just because people are better at posturing, defending the guard, and that strikes (ground and pound) keep a lot of BJJ offensive sets in check somewhat.


Guillotines are high percent because of TDD and scrambling. The RNC (rear naked choke) because people prefer back takes and the huge aspect of MMA right now. leg riding


People say wrestlers get tap all the time, and ill concede that is true. But what is forgotten is that BJJ players dont know how to deal with leg rides, No shame in that its not part of their rule set. But time in time again for the last 5 years you see grapplers hit a leg ride, and the defending grappler unable to scramble out.

Leg rides (sitting on your opponents leg or hip) are a huge aspect of wrestling ground game but those are rewarded really in BJJ competations. So yes in submission grappling of course a BJJ player's offensive set can hit a sub. But i like to see a BJJ player come in an wrestle. And i bet the wrestler will win because of ride time. The combat application of ride time is being shown a lot now.

Instead of becoming a pissing contest about which is superior people need to understand that all styles have inherit weakness. Being weak is no shame and there is only so much time to fill in holes. But to be arrogant and say one style has a monopoly or is the best is short sighted and ignorant .

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>>2853426
The best leg riders in UFC are Coby Covington (170 lb fighter who is All American/Top 8 in the nation and 2x collegiate champ)


Khabib Nurmagomedov (155lb. 2x world sambo champ)


Demian Maia (1x ADCC champ. Pan American champ)


Even though one is a folk style wrestler, another is a samboist and the last is a BJJ player all 3 leg riders have a similar archetype in MMA grappling. and the archetype is to down the opponent and prevent any defensive plays (standing up/or scrambles) by sitting on their leg and look for a RNC or punch them in the head

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>>2853464
You see a lot of high level BJJ guys in UFC try to implement the current sport BJJ meta into MMA with mix results, IE a lot of leglocks and the guard games that revolve around them (50/50, DLR, etc)

The highest percent guards right now are sweeping guards like butterfly and half and that is because UFC's current meta favors standing/striking fighters so you will see plenty of people looking to stand and bang again and get a quick sweep to get back onto their feet that is high so many high level grapplers are focusing on wrestling leg rides to prevent the stand up and keep it grounded. Not everyone has figured out how deal with leg rides though

>>2853464
why dont he ankle lock him?

>>2853655
>>2853655
you mean Cain let go of his turk (figure 4 lock on the thigh) reach over behind and hit the ankle lock, that is a tad more high risk compare to just keep your opponent stuck on the ground unable to get up because their leg is wrapped up and just punching them into the he head.


I think in the mind of the fighter the high percent offensive set was ground and pound rather then losing the superior position for a leg submission

A lot of people specially prize fighters where money and prestige are on the line rather get the guaranteed win then risk something less safe. His ground and pound finish is still an impressive way to end a fight

>>2853701
thanks for answer

>>2853701
also he would need to let got of the wrist tie, which prevented Brown from blocking the punches better because his hand was being grabbed so now he is trying to defend and block punches to his face with one hand, letting go of that hand, Brown can block Brown could also use both his hands to grab the punching hand or use both hands to get up and push off the ground and defend

>>2852529
>Not this stupid shit again. I'm so tired of posting the millions of "boxer fucks up 3 dudes in 3 seconds" videos.
Boxers only do good against people who are shit at fighting. The minute someone has a little bit of training in taking advantage of boxers, the Boxer is done for.

>One standup fighting style + One grappling stlye (+ maybe one style with weapons) = more than enough
Too specific. That's like training Aikido wrist locks all day. It only leaves you prepared for wrist locks.

> If the kickboxer can keep distance he has an advantage. If the boxer gets close he has the advantage. It's that simple.
Except the Muay Thai practitioner has an advantage everywhere. The Boxer gets destroyed no matter what he tries to do. Boxing is too specialized just like Aikido or Taekwondo.

>>2854492
why do you shit post

>>2854863
boxing is literally just punching. I'm not sure why people treat it like something more than it is, boxers aren't doing anything more complex than anyone else
I guess congratulations on being marginally better at 1s 2s and 3s and only attacking above the waist

>>2855101
what do you train and again why do you shit post?

>>2854863
I'm just telling the truth. Why do you shitpost?

>>2854863
Boxers only do go because they condition so much. They're not even good fighters with skill. They're just so athletic it doesn't matter they're shit at fighting.

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>>2855237
actually i spent a huge chunk of my post breaking down the meta.

I am not a striker per say, i'm a grappler (wrestling coach and judo nidan/2nd degree black belt)

but i respect the hell out of boxing, the meta it has produced and the intricacies of the art.

Boxing has more depth then what you have implied. No shame in being a specialist there is a lot of hype because of MMA to be a generalist but it really just depends on how a fighter is brought up, the area and time they have to see what they can invest in.

Besides that general talk. Boxing adds so much especially being specialized with their hands. Comparing them to softer more ineffective styles like aikido, etc was shit posting and you know it


Why not bring up the depth of dirty boxing/clinch play (which personally for me as a grappler find fascinating because of the synergy to grappling and infact some of the grappling plays that are similar to my own styles) or talk about the long range play. Boxing has proven time in and time again that it is a valid style to train in. You can say there is MT and others do better, but that's relative there are some techniques in fact a lot of techniques that boxing brings to the table that MT doesn't and to disgreagard is shit posting and ignorant


So my question since we are having this conversation what do you train in and why shit post?

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>>2855376
Just to stir the conversation into less garbage you know what i find cool? Just a lot of nice ways that boxers can use their strikes to enter the clinch.

Pressure footwork/cutting angles and baiting head movement i find fascinating. I think football/basketbal guys call it fast break, in combat sports you call it a scramble but boxing controls aspect of the scramble (entering the clinch or off the break/exiting the clinch) with their punches. I thnk that's why you see so many wrestlers in north america gravitate toward boxing as their main striking style.

Plus the synergy and combining of the 2 styles. One of the biggest techniques used in MMA is using a looping right and then using the forward momentum to speed up wrestling shot

.

>>2855376
MMA 5 years and despite a little dirty Boxing it's nothing special and in most MMA places we do Boxing but it actually works because we don't train to only fight other boxers in boxing bouts. You're shitposting or actually gnorant and I feel sorry for you. All boxing prooved is you can box someone and beat him if he doesn't know how to fight or is a boxer.

>>2855121
hey now bub, I've been boxing my whole life, I come from a boxing family, my grandpa was a pro. I've chosen to dedicate my time to better pursuits that actually work. I actually quite like this picture>>2855376 because it proves the point. A boxers entire game can be 100% nullified with simple overhooks of all things, the shittiest of all the grappling maneuvers. When a boxer is crowding you, literally you can hug them and their techniques are completely gone, and they can't do a damn thing about it

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>>2855839
again i am mainly a grappler myself. But there are a couple of things

The overhook/whizzer is a viable gripping position, clinch fighting is deeply nuisance a striker's approach to clinching is different from a grappler's POV, and even then both umbrellas get branched off

I know for myself i would feel comfortable clinch generating kuzshi/off balance and look for a slam. However i am respectful enough engaging a striker specially a boxer, because at some point even during clinch off the break they can still hit. And thats a thing there is a branch of boxing where people train to hit off the break. control clinches and in fighting.

The problem i have with you and >>2855614
is the tone and disrespect you guys have toward a art and disregarding an entire style for a narrow and false narrative.


The art of boxing, judo, wrestling etc does not create cookie cutter fighters. Everyone within those styles fights differently, Yes some schools, and coaches have their styles, but the arts are deep enough to offer a lot in in a lot of contextes.


Studing the gif i proved of Tyson, we need to take a step back and relize that clinch attack was within the very confines of the sport of boxing itself.

There is something that doesn't sit right when you propose that an entire boxer's game is shut down when in fact a boxer was the one setting in the offensive set.


Pummeling and clinching are not exclusive to just grappling. And if you really want to be a generalist there should be that level of respect and openness to see how other styles approach their clinch

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The strongest martial art is goju-ryu.

>>2855614
Shut the fuck up. The guy that you have been talking to has been here for years and knows his shit. Why don't you go ahead and link your tapology page if you've been training in MMA for such a long time?

>>2856064
problem is boxing just isn't a martial art on its own, its a rudimentary skill, its the first thing you learn how to do before you move on to advanced stuff.
it's the doggy paddle of fighting

>>2856682
What makes it better than the other Okinawan styles like Shorin-ryu and Uechi-Ryu?

fuck it's cool to see that there are people with high level training experience on this board, I thought it was just guys fapping to WWE diva feet

look forward to learning from these threads

Reminder:

>if you've trained 5 years of boxing, and nothing else, you'll wreck 99.99% of the random people you'll meet on the street
>if you've trained 5 years of judo, and nothing else, you'll wreck 99.99% of the random people you'll meet on the street
>if you've trained 5 years of wrestling, and nothing else, you'll wreck 99.99% of the random people you'll meet on the street
>if you've trained 5 years of bjj, and nothing else, you'll wreck 99.99% of the random people you'll meet on the street

fighting over style things beyond that is just silly

>>2857931
>oldfag leg-humping

Cringe

>>2858143
because it was never casualized, it has always been about combat and training to build a hardy body and strong spirit
people also think karate and they think striking, but goju has ju right in the name, it's as much a grappling art as a striking one. The thought of grappling and striking being different fighting styles is absurd to a gojuka, striking and grappling, hard and soft, they are complimentary movements that assist each other. Strikes open up grappling opportunities, grappling traps and isolates areas of the body and makes them more vulnerable to strikes.
Mixed martial arts, the need to learn different fighting styles and combine them to fill the holes in each other is a solution to a problem goju never had.

>>2858338
I can't tell if this is sincere or satire

>>2858358
whether or not the statement reflects observable reality is one thing
the important thing is the information is all theoretically accurate

the name of the style is its methodology, hard and soft, equal emphasis on both. It was quite a shock to me when I found out most karate schools don't teach clinch work, knees, and elbows when they are the bones of gojus entire methodology, I would even say the knee is the most important strike in the entire system.
Punches are used to close distance until you are able to grab, then it's a clinch with elbows and knees while you work someone in position for a throw.
I spent a good many years in karate class doing uchikomi and getting thrown on my ass when I got greedy with strikes during kumite

The good thing about goju is it has a very traceable lineage, so if you find a goju academy that is not grappling you can easily expose them as fraudulent

have a nice video
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5kv8HkGWo2Q

>>2858516
Oh shit. Never thought of the double punch as a throw. That bunkai hype is real.

>>2853426
>>2853464
>>2853542
Got any vids to recommend on basic leg riding and escapes? I tend to use it more to surf along and secure a guard pass since my top game is more than stable enough to allow such shenanigans, but I've never tried to use it by itself.

>>2858143
Actually I was just lazily meme-ing and didn't expect >>2858338 to answer for me. Incidentally, my background is in Shorin-ryu now that you mention it.

I wouldn't say I learned "pure" Okinawan karate though. One of my instructors was a kickboxer and regular Marquess rules boxer and the other one was/is a martial arts nerd in the army reserve who has a BJJ purple belt, a sandan in Judo, and some dan in an iaido school I can't remember on top of his Shorin-ryu karate nanadan.

We always welcomed cross-training in the community and only strove for consistency in reciting kata since that's what the pruned up Okinawans running the school system expected of us to maintain some kind of distinction. I suppose I can't really say how it stacks up to other styles like Goju or Uechi since I didn't just practice karate.

I do know, however, that the sparing we did in our dojo looks nothing like what the WKF is promoting for the 2020 Olympics.

>>2858358
He doesn't even know what Uechi-ryu is, I guess he's trying to keep goju guy's legacy

TFW you're a kung fu guy who actually spars and grapples but just really likes kung fu but it's always awkward telling other people you do it

>>2858963
Most people don't even know what kung fu is, and those who know a lot know that it's more important how it's taught rather than what it is

Good exercises to improve reflexes? I want to be able to slip punches and kicks by centimetres instead of inches.

>>2858963
Well there are so many different styles of kung-fu and so many kung-fu schools run by frauds you have to specify what discipline of kung-fug.

>>2858202

So much this.


>>2858963

As a Judoka I also trained in classical KungFu for 2 years and it was a lot of fun. Swinging big sticks and crazy weapons and all that shit is great.

But at the end of the day Kung Fu has the problem that you train to much different stuff. Even if we did sparring, we trained more or less "normal kickboxing" for sparring and "exotic footwork" for all the weapon stuff.
I mean I'm not looking down on Kung Fu, if you swing a long staff you need a different stance than for kickboxing. But if you want to go down the MMA or competition route, Kung Fu teaches you a lot of unnecessary stuff..


>>2852809

> boxing footwork is only valid when you're fighting in the pocket

This is not true. Boxing has really the best footwork for the street. You are like a tank: mobile, but armoured.

There are very few styles that show you how to deal with pressure from the closest distance and enable you to fight while walking backwards, I'd rank Boxing before everything else here.

Similar to Wrestling you have a "layered defense":
-Footwork being the first defense
-Bobbing, weaving and so on
-Parrying (if you can)
-Stiff arm block (if you must)
-Eating the punch (if you can't avoid)

Boxing makes you great at all those things and makes you really tough. Even if someone throws kicks at you (does this happen on the street?), you can still use the same close guard defense and still not get knocked out. Even if you get a punch in the face, the training makes you deal with it.


I'm not a boxer, but I can only say that this guy here (>>2855376 ) is absolutetly right:
I have much respect for boxing, you learn so much good stuff there. It's not "only punching", it's so much more. An experienced boxer can see your punch coming from a mile ago, on the streets or in the ring.

Is boxing the "be all, end all" sport? No. But if don't have to worry about getting punched and be a good puncher it's already a lot!

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qSX0PCQXiO4

>>2859487
Guitar hero? Makes you a monster in terms of mental reflexes

>>2859633

Most people glass over once you start talking specifics though, and understandably since its a pretty niche area. Additionally I'm a mongrel due to both past mixed training and the art I study now (and yes there is some Wing Chun in there). Basically short southern with strong neijia leanings. Again though, that's hardly going to be my icebreaker.

>>2859674

I totally agree man; I think one of the main flaws of most kung fu these days is in how much highly specialised material it attempts to train. While what I do now comes from a bunch of different styles, it's assembled around a few core principles kind of like FMA, so I'm pretty happy with it. Still cross train to widen my skillsets though.

>>2859831
Are you serious?

>>2860363
Don't know how well it would help with body movement though
Any rithm game really

>>2853426
I like your style..

>>2859674
-Hugging to run the clock out
Boxing is a safe space like Aikido.

>>2860956
Except boxing give you brain damage, while if you train aikido, you're brain damaged from the get-go

>>2859674
boxing has the worst footwork imaginable the moment kicking is involved, its so easy to topple a boxer over

>>2860981
Not him but I train kickboxing now but I have a pure boxing style. Granted it's not very efficient to slip and dodge kicks but it sure is fun doing it in the Philly shell stance. Kickboxers in general don't have good usage of hands i.e. TKD for example. Once I get into close range and let my hands go, they panic and start throwing back albeit less efficiently.

>>2861002
>Kickboxers in general don't have good usage of hands i.e. TKD for example.
>i dont know what im talking about

>>2859487
Buy a speed bag or make one.

>>2861059
I think speed bags are a silly toy that doesn't actually make you any faster or more precise. The only thing speed bag gets you better at is speed bag. in my opinion

>>2858338
ju does not in its orignial meaning refer to "jujutsu". in this case it just means "soft" or "supple"

Early Japanese grappling systems didn't use the term jujutsu either. jujutsu was mostly an Edo period term and refereed to a "softer" variant of grappling, often making use of Chinese internal methods similar to Goju ryu's kiko.

>>2861168
karate isn't japanese reeee reeee REEEEEE!!!!

>>2861196
the name "Goju" is japanese.

>>2861002
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ibnyYGXDws0

>>2861072
>The only thing speed bag gets you better at is speed bag. in my opinion
Not the anon you replied to, but they help you develop some applicable skill in the beginning, but after a certain point, you get diminishing returns, and at some point you're developing more speed bag skill than anything else.

tell me about the shockwave punch
sounds like some mystical bullshit being retroactively justified with broscience
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qi8I1Oomkc8

>stomping the ground increases power by generating a full body shock wave
except if anything I think you are losing energy since you have already driven forward, and youre spending some into the ground instead of out your hand

any searches for shockwave punch bring me to videos of guys training in their basements and related videos about harnessing chi

I'm torn between wanting to be competent and having brain cells

>>2861314
I am going to attempt golden gloves as long as I can do it in novice
that gives me a maximum of 11 amateur fights before I have to retire

there's no asterisk next to your name, you win golden gloves novice you have the title of golden gloves champion
you win pan ams at white belt in bjj, you are a pan american champion.
I plan to sandbag my way to success

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What's better?

Grappling With Strikes

or

Striking With Grappling

??

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>>2858674
Here you go
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=J80Z6cJaSzo


This is a great break down that shows the main components of viable leg riding. I want to add however leg riding is a huge part of wrestling (its how a lot of people score points)

within the ruleset of submission grappling/BJJ things are different. In wrestling many people want to stand up so they can be on top, take down ,etc. Leg riding evolved to incentives people either standing up and escaping or snuffing that out and controlling them.


With that in mind drilling and learning leg riding is a tad more hard if your opponent doesn't want to stand up, doesn't know how to stand up or defensively scramble. You will be able to develop more feel and sensative to your top game and surf/float around. But That is a difference in wrestling and BJJ in some aspect. BJJ players will have a sense to float/surf around as they transition. Wrestling and specially the riding component is more of power/crushing/snuffing out your opponent as hard as you can.


So as you watch the instructional and see the setups and genreal principals you need to drill the techniques. But also as you roll you need to roll them right. So you may ask your training partner if you can start your roll, from ref's position/turtle and ask your partners to attempt to ask as you ride them. Or start or attempt to hit the leg ride from a takdown/standing up, i know those are somewhat atypical ways to roll in some BJJ schools but for wrestling rides that's the most viable way to instill that into your muscle memory

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>>2855376
>Why not bring up the depth of dirty boxing/clinch play

A quick aside on that, I'd recommend grapplers and cross-style people to have a look at this book.

>t. HEMAfag

>>2862282
>online pdf never

>>2861203
The Japan just stole Kung-fu from China.

>Japan: Hello, China-kun
>China: Hello, Japan-kun. It's fancy meeting you here!
>Japan: You're so kawaii, China-kun.
>China: Stop! You're making me blush!
>Japan: I actually came here too check out something cool around that corner over there.
>China: Something Cool? Really? I like cool things!
>Japan: I know, I know. Let's go check it out together; I like doing things with you.
>China: You're so sweet!
>they go to the corner
>Japan reaches for China's Kung-fu
>China: Japan-kun, w-what are you doing?
>Japan grabs China's Kung-fu
>China: Japan-kun! Stop!
>Japan: Just let it happen.
>China: No! Why are you doing this?!
>Japan: Shut up!
>Japan forcefully takes China's Kung-fu
>Japan throws China into the ground
>China cries in pain and sobs on the floor
>Japan: You dishonor your family with your weakness, China-kun.
>Japan kicks China in the ribs
>China screams in pain

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>>2863498
The Chinese imported Japanese kenjutsu manuals and even practiced distinct Japanese styles like shinkage ryu which survived in China up until the 19th century

The Japanese seemed more interested in specific esoterica and techniques and mixed that stuff into already existing Japanese methods to create new styles.

There are very few references to distinct Chinese styles being practiced in Japan, though there are a few, often associated with families that immigrated from China

>>2863498
japan stole karate from okinawa is really what happened

>>2863590
I thought the Okinawans enthusiastically exported karate and kabudo to the Japanese so that sempai would notice them after the annexation.

As an aside, I like the old kabudo arts even if none of them outside of bo staff and tonfa exercises have much modern day utility.

I heard an unfortunate account that kabudo is considered something dorky in modern-day Okinawa, and that people who practice it are looked at like HEMA spergs at best and Renaissance reenactment nerds at worst by anyone under 40. A friend of a teacher of mine traveled to Okinawa for karate practice and mentioned kabudo in front of a group of college-age karateka and he reported that they basically looked at him like he'd just ripped a wet fart in public before going back to playing with their smartphones.

>>2863852
well it's more like it was culturally appropriated. Karate is 100% not japanese, but they get all the credit because they acquired the country where it was developed

sort of like how british people pretend curry is their food

>>2863866
Oh, just like how the Koreans pretend like Taekwondo is derived from Taekkyun and other "ancient" Korean martial arts, when in reality it's just Shotokan Karate with a bigger focus on kicks?

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>>2863884
its bizarre how those countries hate each other so much when they are culturally so similar

on that note. I think I want to take TKD because I want to get a black belt and I feel like thats the easiest path, What, 2 years once a week or something?. I don't want to do any of that faggy point sparring though

>>2863898
Just buy a black belt off of ebay? If you can get a black belt in two years once a week, it doesn't really mean anything.

>>2863914
the prestige and bragging rights
black belt means you can instantly kick someone's ass

>>2863922
but you're basically lying, so why even bother paying for and going to class, when you can just buy the belt off of ebay and lie about the whole thing?

>>2863914
well I already did that and I bestowed it upon myself. I'm just the eternal white belt though
I started doing karate 7 years ago and have trained diligently, and I'm more competent at it than most people I come across. I teach classes at summer camp and I have these 9 year olds saying they have black belts in karate or tkd, adults who I watch hit a bag and flail around like retards with no technique, or people that have never been in any kind of good physical condition talking about being black belts.

and here I am working really hard, I mean I train every single day and I don't have one. And it's not that I don't deserve one either, its just that my teacher is a little eccentric and he always says "that rank you wear isn't a reflection of your skill level" when ever someone new comes to class he makes a point to tell them "even though he has that belt on, he has a much higher skill level than that" and he has me teach the class a lot

he just supposedly hasn't gotten around to promoting me, and I'm sick of it, I want some validation for all the work I do
. I'm so frustrated with this situation I'm willing to quit right now and go learn something stupid just for the validation of my effort

>>2863961
Just show up in the dojo with a black belt see what he says

>>2863973
I can't say with confidence what his reaction would be, but I know it would not go over well

>>2863961
Wait, are literally still a white belt after 7 years? Is your school adhering to that ultra-orthodox Kano Jigoro belt system?

>>2864120
oh nigga I wish that was the case, but mostly I'm just being cucked.
I don't want this to sound like a kung fu movie or something, but what it boils down to is he doesn't have any active students who are good enough to test me, THEY ARE NOT WORTHY!
the ones he does have, the black and brown belts of years past, have all moved on and have families and just arent willing to play ball

so his next resort is an old fashioned dojo storm, once he finds someone who will agree to it, he will take me somewhere and have me take on all of their students in a multi partner kumite.
He's been saying this for 2 years now, he just has to find a place! don't worry, soon! just need to find the right place! you have a big surprise coming your way you just need to wait until I find a place!

>>2864171
God damn dojo storming is such a fucking badass concept, too bad it doesn't really happen anymore. Would help clearing out McDojos and fraudulent instructors.

>>2864171
>Dojo storm

Is this kyokushin kaikan? And at any rate, I don't know why he wouldn't just test you himself. Pay him for his time in a private session if necessary. The dojo I attended as a minor would offer that since some kids had an ass load of extracurriculars and some adult students worked irregular shifts.

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>>2863884
>bigger focus on kicks.

Almost to the point of exclusion. I went to a TKD dojang awhile back to check it out and happened to be there with a guy with a background in some other martial art. San bum nim invites one of us to spar. The other guy volunteers first and gets dons the required gear from the spares in the closet. A couple of seconds into the fight, he parries the TKD student's kicks, advances, and lands a light-contact cross on the nose. TKD student wasn't even keeping up a guard. His arms were semi-flexed like a kid with a congenital deformity.

>TKD student cups his hands over his face and groans
>"Stohp!" yells san bum nim, "What was dat!?"
>Other fighter says, "Like a reverse bunch, eh, right?"
>"None of diss!" scolds san bum nim, "Keek!"
>Other fighter holds up his hands, "What am I supposed to use these for?"

I predict that Koreans are slowly going to evolve into a race of Gondolas over the centuries.

>>2864203
Taekwondo would be a lot more similar to Karate, maybe even Kyokushin if not for the stupid fucking rules. There is a pretty big list of strikes in Taekwondo, and quite some throws too, but the rules are made to bring out the unique part of the arts, the wild kicks. Much like how Judo has banned grabbing the legs to make it stand out from other forms of wrestling. In the end you have a stupid sport with tons of flaws because they want it to be flashy.

Why can't I find a dojo within 200 miles of me that teaches Kendo or Kenjutsu? Is it just that unpopular or what? We even have places that teach fucking bojutsu.

>>2864256
>>2864203
That best thing that could happen for Taekwondo as a martial arts is that it is dropped from the Olympics, and then maybe, just maybe, the schools would learn their students ALL of Taekwondo and not just what's needed to win in a tournament.

>>2864270
I've often wondered that myself. I'd think that with so many weeaboo alone in the West that a halfway decent kenjutsu or kendo market would exist just to give nerds an excuse to hit each other with shinai and kiai. I wanted to learn iaijutsu awhile back, but the only thing remotely close to me is a sport kendo dojo 75 minutes away by car, and I don't exactly live in a rural locale.

I posit it might have something to do with the relatively stringent credentials in Japanese swordplay. Part of the problem with McDojos in unarmed martial arts is that organizations are so fractured and were so late in consolidating that anybody could just make up a lineage and history and orchestrate a persuasive con. With all of the Japanese koryu weapons styles, though, there's a strict control over licensing and authentication by a relative small handful of large organizations based right out of Nippon herself.

>>2864188
lets call it a traditional karate in the sense it's hardcore training methods, body conditioning, and focus explicitly on application of combative techniques and not theoretical air punching. Teacher used to fight pro during the pre-pride era of getting fucked on coke and steroids and kicking the shit out of each other for blood sport.
That style of training tends to scare people off, the student base has always been small. So what I'm getting at is while he's still strong and he can still get moving for light sparring, and he can certainly turn it on if he gets serious, but his body is more machine than man at this point so it wouldn't be reasonable for him to really fight me at the intensity and length of time needed for testing. Double knee replacements,a palpable hernia, and a torn rotator cuff he's never gotten surgery for, plus I'm nearly 40 years his junior. storming may be our only option I'm afraid. Or I can just quit..

I will continue this in my next post

>>2864183
it reminds me of a story. Our karate school was very small, I would be surprised if it was 500 square feet total including office space, it was like the size of a chinese take out place and we didn't have a parking lot, only street parking.
at the building next door which we shared an alley with; a korean merchant purchased both store fronts and opened a massive tkd belt factory complex pumping out 8 year old black belts on a weekly basis thanks to the power of long term contracts.
our humble little school had probably 12 students at that time, and next door he had dozens of families getting scammed out of their money.
He had a parking lot, but his student body was large enough that even the lot wasn't enough so they had to use street parking too. One night during class he came barging in to our place causing a ruckus demanding sensei goes outside to see how our students are taking up too much space in the street, he says we must move our cars so his students can park in front of the building and not have to walk down the block!
now we start shuffling towards the door to see what's going on. As were a bunch of the TKD students presumably expecting us to actually move our shit for them. The two teachers standing there in their finest cotton battle pajamas (although tkd guy may have been wearing a polyester uniform like a fucking tool)
sensei says, it's a public street and we got there first, apologies if that's inconvenient but your students should arrive earlier if they want better parking, after all you have a whole lot and the street is all we have.
Now you would think thats the end of the discussion but master korea kicker got into senseis face and said you better move those cars or he's going to have a problem, and sensei looks right back at him with a smirk on his face and says "if there's a problem I'm right here, lets settle it now"

and you know what happened? master korea just scurried back into his building and never said another word about it

>>2864256
In judo you are still forced to demonstrate morote gari and kata guruma for gradings. You have to know how to do them, and especially as they are a higher grade throw for the most part, be good at them, you just can't do them in competition. Big difference.

There's also no rules against grabbing legs on the ground, you just can't do ankle locks and stuff. Still, any decent coach will teach you them as cross training judo is common

>>2864391
I'm in a decent sized city (Chattanooga, TN). I'm honestly surprised we don't have Kenjutsu, I'd even settle for fucking sport Kendo at this point. I went in a dojo that had Kendo written on the sign Friday only to be told they don't offer it anymore. We have plenty of places with Chinese weapon arts and "comprehensive weapon classes" (sai, nunchucks, bo staffs). I don't care about any of that shit. Who the fuck are all of these people more interested in Chinese swords than Japanese? Do we not have at least one weaboo instructor dedicated enough to go to Japan and learn Kenjutsu?

>>2864445
You're supposed to know all the techniques in Taekwondo too, but then mcdojos became a thing. When I was training Taekwondo I watched some kids grading, and the kids kept fumbling around and mess up their techniques a lot, but they still got graded (presumably because their parents paid for it). If the adults had fumbled around like that, they would have been told to come back next year.

Anyways my point was that the competition rules are tweaked to focus on specific parts of the martial art, in Taekwondo the kicks, in Judo, the throws.

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>>2864407
Korea still hasn't gotten over the mass psychological butthurt from the Japanese protectorate era. It sometimes seems like everything they've tried to export since the 1960s has been stolen from somewhere else in Asia and given a mythical background to assert it was originally Korean. If their government, businesses, and media weren't complicit it would be bad enough, but there's real money and power behind promoting things like 2,000-year-old assassin taekkyon and combat hapkido. Inventing obvious bullshit like the "samurang" originating in the Joseon dynasty era and inventing the katana arts that were later taught to the Japanese samurai.

Now that MMA is gaining worldwide popularity and Muay Thai is widely regarded as a proven and "core" discipline for sport, there are Koreans that are calling it "Kyeok Too Ki" and are pretending that Korea invented kickboxing with shin-based roundkicks and flying elbows that visitors from Siam took back to their tribes. Their entire post-war export culture is like a massive bootlegging enterprise.

It was only recently that Wikipedia managed to delete some articles for bullshit made-up Korean "ancient" arts like haedong gumdo (kenjutsu with awkward, flashy Chinese jian wushodo thrown in) yet others like Hwa Rang Do remain. Korean wikispergians patrol Korean topics like Zionists squat on anything related to Israel to control the narrative. It's fascinating.

>>2853542
50/50 isn't just a sport BJJ thing. It was big in pancrase when they had lots of leg lock battles. You can't stall in 50/50 in mma like you would in sport bjj.

>>2864580
Yes and no
There are parallels to old school pancrase and modern sport BJJ leglock games. but a lot of things different. Specially with 50/50 guard.

The whole 50/50 paradigme shift didnt happen till long after pancreas and got so bad because like you said people were stalling out.

I want to add that pancrase has some weird things that make it different then MMA. 2 major components were pancrase letting fighters wear boots/shoes which makes gripping for leg locks easier. And the other factor is having ring ropes. Watch the last 3 or 4 years of leg lockers in UFC right now, guys are struggling because people are getting wise to leg lockers and make sure the leglock guy is stuck against the wall, making it harder for them to adjust their grip and hit the sub cleanly. With that it makes it easier to defend because now the person is stuck on bottom, stuck on the wall and can be punished with ground and pound.


Also its interesting Bas and Shamrock and all those old guard guys have talked about how in pancrase if you grab the rope or scoot out of the ring the sub is reseted. Both fighters talked in several interviews where they practically had to submit the fighter 5 times because they kept on getting resetted.


Another factor why pancrase had a strong footlock meta where has current modern MMA doesnt is the aspect of palms strikes to full blown punching.

Bas has shown and numerous other guys you can KO a guy with some good palm strikes, however even then it still takes a lot of winding up and volume to achieve. Watch Frank Shamrocks matches, he will be attacking with leg locks/foot locks and still be getting popped in the face with palm strikes (think there is a few infamous incidents of him sticking out his tongue and taunting his opponent saying it wasn't doing shit, he would then sub them with a heel hook.

So, right now leglocks, and the guards that lead to them like 50/50 are currently struggling in MMA but thriving in sports BJJ.

>>2864610
I'm not a BJJ guy but one thing i always thought was cool was the combat jitz fights at EBI, BJJ matches but with open hand strikes.


I think if natured it ca develop fighters with some great ground and pound and it changes the dynamic of how you look for leg locks so much and just scrambling in general is so different when you add in ground and pound

>>2861033
>I don't respond with anything insightful but greentext instead

>>2861382
I don't think there are many examples of those in mma, besides clinch boxing which is not really grappling

>>2863498
>chinese give out kung fu for money
>become commie and lose kung fu
u store it from us
Okinawans were more chinese than japanese anyway
>>2863866
Like okinawans modified kung fu to the point of not resembling chinese kung fu anymore, japanese modified karate to the point of not looking like the okinawan one
>>2863961
Oh I think I know, here the guy promotes only once every year (black belt ranks take more years) as if it somehow validated his belts, there's an adult who's at brown belt level but he keeps him at green because "it's not fair to others who had to wait more". No shit, those others are young and didn't put effort into it, belts in karate are really just a hierarchy thing based on the years you practiced

>>2861750
Much obliged! Coming from a Judo background, leg riding seems to fit in my passing game somewhere, but I've never really look at it properly. We'll see how it pans out.

>>2860981

>boxing has the worst footwork imaginable the moment kicking is involved

Maybe if we talk about some super classical bladed boxing footwork 50 years ago. Modern boxing footwork works.

I've already had this discussion about a few hundred times on /asp/, but you won: let's have this stupid discussion.

1) A fight in the sand (severe disadvantage for the boxer, who is gets his speed by shoes). The Nak Muay tries kicks, clinching, knees and so on. But he eventually bring the boxer down with what? Yes, with PUNCHES. He can only beat his boxing with his own boxing:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=l0biBXfc6-k

2) Here is another fight. Notice that the second guy is trying to kick the boxer.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jJUw7OXXGwg

3) Here is one of my favorites, because of all the stupid stereotypes you usually hear about boxing. A NakMuay has a tough fight with a boxer. He throws lowkicks and highkicks. The boxer only uses boxing defense and also small head movement to defend himself. All those kicks don't keep him from giving the NakMuay a lot of nice punches to the face. Eventually the NakMuay win, because he is the better fighter and the boxers drops his guard, but it's a pretty even fight and shows how far "normal" boxing takes you in a fight against a kicker.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=505SciSBQY4


In a street fight, most Kickboxers or NakMuay's use their HANDS to win:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zf3KkxqCGwE

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Pm4WaRMy7ec


This is a NakMuay against a random thug. He throws many good high kicks but wins with his.. boxing skills!

It illustrates greatly how hard it is to connect with a high kick. And even those who do connect just get blocked:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mxIPIf5JxjQ


Same here, the kickboxers have a hard time to land any kick against the fuild boxing movements and opt for striking instead:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=S4Em4Y4JKe8

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pbSIfHU6yFc

>>2863866

>they get all the credit because they acquired the country where it was developed

If you translate "Karate" it literally meant "China Hand" (= chinese fist fighting style) until the beginnings of last century. Then the japanese nationalism grew and they changed the symbols so that "Karate" was now spelled "Empty Hand" (= fighting style without weapons). This is remarkable, because Karate originally had a lot of weapons, i.e. Tonfa or Sai.

Of course nowadays Japan gets the credit for Karate, because they developed and preserved this style. Also back then a lot of Karate people wanted to be Japanese for many reasons, i.e. Mas Oyama who is not originally japanese, but changed his name (like many people did back then).

>>2852875
that is becasuse many of the FMA stuff is shit they copied from the spaniards

>>2862814
>online pdf never
I know man, I know...

>old geezer, get with the times!

>>2849210
HEMA? that style were they based all their blocks on a single mistranslation for years, claiming that you were supposed to block with the flat of your blade instead of using the edge of your blade against the opponents flat?
I have fought students from around half the HEMA gyms in western germany during informal sparring meets and HEMA courses, and believe me, they are useless the moment you move from their flat, well-lit training grounds to the woods or backalleys (were most of those sparring meets take place).
In general, their footwork is unsuited to uneven ground, they tend to block with their hands for some reason (I guess it has to do with trying to block with the flat) and they are fucked when faced with double equal weapons.

As for Kendo, it's a good sport - but useless unless you have a wide open field, a single opponent and a longsword. Their doublesword styles suck badly, mainly due to their rules forbidding "unintended" blows, which are the base of all other two-sword styles.

Sport fencing is the same, the rules limit you far to much. How often will you face someone on a narrow field limiting you to moving forward or backward only, while also having a lightweight, well-balanced long weapon?

FMA on the other hand is pure combat. It uses any kind of weapon (including improvised weapons and unarmed combat) and any kind of terrain.
Look at the dog brothers for example. Or at any army other than the ISDF, they pretty mch all use FMA based systems for the combat troops (Marine corps martial arts for example).
It's just that since unlike most other MAs the FMA never had styles until the last few decades, it's very hard to find a proper school. Basically, if the Teacher can name his style or holds some certification, chances are he's a fraud.
If he can't, he's either to lazy to do the one-day-course "modern Arnis" or "Blitz Arnis" require for a first deg. black belt, or he's for real.

>>2865017
It was already ambiguous at least during the 19th century, also it's not chinese but okinawan. Saying it's chinese is as bad as saying it's japanese. All the elements that make karate peculiar do not coincide with kung fu, sure you can find very few parts of forms that coincide with chinese ones (many of which went extinct in china), but the rest started in okinawa

>>2849983
BJJ is useless unless you're on mats (Source: fought two black belts in ruleless sparring. They both ended up hurting themselves more in their falls than I hurt them).

Wrestling might have the same problem depending on style. Combatwrestling, which mainly consists on throwing the opponent and kicking him if he still moves works (source: started outwith this style, survived through around 10 fights based on it), competitive wrestling with all it's groundwork is useless. most schools teach something inbetween.

MT is good if you have to stay within legal constraints (ra. if you're the one starting the fight) as it doesn't use any "lethal" techniques (it's lethal alright, but you can always claim that you only wanted to knock him out).

Krav doesn't really have a place here. most Krav schools teach watered down boxing (unarmed) and FMA (armed), which makes for a pretty good system on it's own (though pure FMA or boxing are better) (Source: Youtube videos and the three Krav schools in my area).
Actual Krav Maga (as in, Lichtenfeld) might be useful, but from what I've seen it boils down to clinching, kneeing and running away - which MT and parkour also teach.

finally parkour is useful if you stick to the basics. the whole freerunning stuff (sommersaults, roofing etc) is useless. if you can jump a fence and break a fall, you'll generally be fine. (source: military parkour training back when I was wrestling, watching other people run from me).

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>>2865217
>countless of videos of people using bjj effectively in the street
>"it's useless because I claim to have fought two black belts and they hurt themselves"
okay buddy whatever you say

>>2865182
>HEMA gyms in western germany
Found your problem, friend.

>>2865231
I thought germans were autistic perfectionists

>>2850969
Doug Marcaida himself says in one of his videos that what he shows in his videos isn't FMA, but playing around. For real FMA, look at the dog brothers. They were actually banned from participating in the UFC as a whole due to their way of fighting "not being what the viiewers want to see", aka to primitive and brutal.

>>2855101
Boxers generally punch better than anybody else. Just look at what your average Karateka or Kickboxer passes of as a punch, then compare it to a Boxer. When I learned proper straights from a Boxer after having used normal east-asian type straight (like what karate, tkd and shaolin quan use) the results went from hurting my fist more than the opponent to striking the mitts off of my partners hands.

>>2855614
If it was like that, why do we regularly see pro MMA fighters getting knocked out by haymakers any amateur Boxer could dodge?

>>2858135
That's how it should be. sadly most schools glance over this rudimentary skill within two or three weeks instead of teaching it for the four to six months one'd need to master it.

>>2859674
You're wrong about Kungfu.
once you have passed a certain point, the stances as well as the techniques reduce significantly, until in the end it's all down to using the same five stances (front, middle, rear, rider, single leg) and less than ten basic movements.
Kungfu is however terribly ineffective at teaching this due to their form-based way of teaching.
If like me, you're based in FMA or traditional fencing (or any other system also using the one method - multiple weapons approach) however, it'll become obvious after two to three years.

I've been doing white crane for three years by now, and the 23 "forms" (21 of them consist of only one or two techniques) I learnt are all based on the same three movements and four techniques, they just use them in different ways. Like for example, there's one technique where you block to the outside and punch straight, then later the same block followed by ellbow, kick or grab - they all use the same body and hip movement, modyfing only the movement of your knee, shoulder and ellbow.

From what I've heard from my teacher and comrades from other styles, most Kungfu styles follow this method. AFAIK the only one actually teaching multiple unrelated methods is the Eight fists - hanging palms style, which due to this is often taught as two separate styles.

>>2865230
Mind linking me to some of those vids?
All I found on Youtube (searching for "bjj streetfight" and "bjj works") were vids of teenagers playing around (don't tell me it's a real fight if you're lining up with your guard up and stop once someone says he's had enough) and McDojo masters showing their "real streetfight" videos, where for some reason their opponents bear a striking resemblance to their sparring partners in the other videos.

Also, just to make sure you're not misunderstanding me: I didn't fight to BJJ black belts on the street, but in a dojo. I'm a black belt myself (FMA) and we often have people from other schools coming to "get a new angle on their style". Basically Yaburis without the ritualistic shit.
also it wasn't two at once, but with around three or four years in between.
Both times, we had to stop the spar due to injuries, one because the BJJ guy fell badly (he tried some type of scissor takedown on my waist, I tried to ellbow him, we both fell down, he hit the floor head first and took my ellbow to the gut, then started retching) the other because while the BJJ guy was trying to grapple with me I ended up sweeping his legs out and he sprained his hand trying to break the fall. Both times, the Ringmaster (the guy stopping the fight if there's serious danger, not sure what the english word is) intervened befor i could follow up, but in both cases, stomping them would have been pretty easy.

>>2865231
Mind elaborating?
From what I've seen, they use the same techniques as the american HEMA guys on Youtube, with all the obvious mistakes, and also spar in a similiar manner. I haven't seen enough of their training to know if there might be some minute difference though.

Ive decided I am going to write a short book about martial arts practice

it isn't going to be instructional and full of techniques, you really can't learn from a book. What it is going to be is a road map for finding your own way and go down a path that will benefit you personally the most

I'm not looking to charge people anything, I just want to be helpful so I would be distributing it for free.
that said, I'm also a human and would like money, so through what process am I able to give a free service to people while also earning some cash too?

I don't feel right charging money for this content, I think information is something people have a right to

>>2865849
Are you worthy of writing it though?

>>2865858
I think I have good insight, because I lack any true bias. I was never indoctrinated into a cult causing me to be fiercely loyal or to hold fierce resentment towards anything.

objective tested concepts are the only things I will recommend, and I will recommend them without knocking anything that doesn't necessarily fit that standard

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>>2864827
BJJ scout has a break down of Ben Askren and his wrestling for MMA.it breaks down the core concepts of riding (hand fighting/grip fighting) and how punches are set up with them

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BCGE8duzrW4

>>2865251
This little blog article has a reasonable breakdown of the relative advantages to boxing and karate punches and their comparative, situational utilities.

http://www.wayofleastresistance.net/2008/11/karate-punches-vs-boxing-punches.html

I also find this one useful considering how the argument of how well MMA correlates to duh streetz seems to flare up

http://www.wayofleastresistance.net/2012/08/necessary-and-reasonable-force.html

>>2865384
well renzo gracie live tweeted his own mugging one time. i'm not sure what videos you're talking about, but there's a huge compilation out there that some anon always posts. btw where do you live?

>>2866225
>there's a huge compilation out there

Not the same anon.

By any chance do you mean this one?

https://youtu.be/tpgg7mwxoLU

At one hand, within the first 10 minutes (out of 45, so isn't even halfway) you have at 3:23 a tv report about a guy using jiu jutsu to fend off a dog (no, really), at 4:22 you have two guys sparring in some back alley, and this my favourite one before I dropped it: at 5:43 they displayed yet another tv report about a guy who had to fight against a mugger with a knife.

>"Found the hard way he had pick one of the worst targets, Jacobs is a former marine combat instructor and a black belt in karate with over 20 years of training".
(Scratch)
>black belt in karate.

I watched the entire report and the karate guy never went to the ground, never applied some BJJ technique (actually, I would say is closer to aikido than bjj given how he took the guy by the wrist and forced him out of the store), and BJJ wasn't even mentioned at all. Why it was included?

Oh, yeah, because at the other hand, the video description says:

>Note: Not all footage technically shows BJJ. Although many of them are untrained, they use grappling tactics and similar principles of BJJ to their advantage.

>Not all footage technically shows BJJ. >Although many of them are untrained.

As long as the good guy wins, is BJJ.

>>2865182
>claiming that you were supposed to block with the flat of your blade instead of using the edge of your blade against the opponents flat?
The HEMA group who claims that is ARMA, which is basically a cult and that whole "block with the flat" shit was only relevant in the 80s-90s.

You're judging HEMA as a whole based off of the absolute worst of it. Like saying boxing is shit because you saw a McDojo do it poorly.

>Basically, if the Teacher can name his style
FMA has dozens of family styles. I'm pretty sure a teacher should be able to name his style. Don't know how a guy going "I don't know wtf I practice. FMA?" is more reputable.

>>2865384
>I'm a black belt myself

>black belt
>FMA
wut

>>2864949
>I misinterpret every video I see to make it look like it proves my point: the post

>>2866741
How about you interpret the videos instead then?

>>2865217
>finally parkour is useful if you stick to the basics. the whole freerunning stuff (sommersaults, roofing etc) is useless.
Freerunning and tricking is not Parkour.

>roofing
You mean getting onto rooftops? The further you can get, the more difficult for your opponent to get to you, the better off you are. Getting onto rooftops, as long as you're not doing it like a mentally retarded child, is a good idea.

>>2865235
>I thought germans were autistic perfectionists
More like the Polish are. Most of the masters came from (what is now) Poland, so it's a big point of pride with them.
The Scandinavians produce some of the best competitors and instructors in the world.
Britain, while not on the same level, has a lot of sources and was (along with France) the founders of the movement.
America and Australia are kind of like the kid who keeps trying but just doesn't quite get it. Except in America you can make a living out of mediocrity. Australia, despite producing early good research, is mostly a backwater in pretty much every regard.
The supreme irony is that the Germans are better at LARPing and re-enactment than HEMA despite them trying to claim it's "muh heritage".

>>2865384
>they use the same techniques as the american HEMA guys on Youtube, with all the obvious mistakes, and also spar in a similar manner.

>I haven't seen enough of their training to know if there might be some minute difference though.

I think we're done here.

4/10 troll, made me respond.

FMA has direct links to La Verdadera Destreza you chucklefuck.

>>2865849
I like that idea.

>>2865901
I look forward to your content, Anon.

This is what /asp/ should be, this and memes.

>>2865901
>I was never indoctrinated into a cult causing me to be fiercely loyal or to hold fierce resentment towards anything.

This sounds nice, but in reality it almost always means you don't have an real level of experience in any particular system.

Learn and apply practical bajiquan in your dirty boxing.

You're welcome.

>>2868816
how?

>>2866727

>I'm pretty sure a teacher should be able to name his style.

Yes and no. FMA came a long way from family styles over immigrants (especially Stockton, CA) to the public. I'd always rate the real skills over some "lineage", i.e. my teacher gave his style a new name because he had a lot of teachers and created his own style from it. Basically all FMA grandmasters claim they are the real ones and all others are assholes.. ^^

But here are two of the most important people in FMA giving their opinion.


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rEtvIvOazTI

> "...during the war when facing the Japanese bayonet charge Banzai, there was no style, only kill, kill, kill."


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=X8gFjY7G34E

>"I understand that there's a lot of filipino escrimadores in this country, but what they do is they just practice (...) in their backyard."

>>2868816
Or just do boxing

>>2868636
u dont need experience 2 understand it just helps make it easier 4 the stupid

>>2865182
What about Kenjutsu?

>>2868636
>>2869426
>I learn better by doing that's why I never graduated high school it's not because I'm stupid I'm smart

Why, in a board dedicated to alternative sports, is there only one thread worth of people who like martial arts? This board is the equivalent of /o/ having entirely nascar threads with one thread about cars. Not only do I not understand how this happened in the first place, I don't understand how it's tolerated and allowed to this extent.

>>2870065
This used to be the place to go for martial arts, but then hiroshima banned wrestling from /s/ and put it on THE BOARD FOR SPORTS WHO CAN'T SURVIVE ON ORDINARY /s/
fucking genious huh

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What fighting style do you use to fight against getting banned from 4chan?

>>2870232
Combat Tai-Chi and Aikijutsu

>>2870065
Hiro moved wrestling from /sp/ to here, and given that they're a lot more than us they flooded the place and hiro is a lazy fuckhead who months ago said he'd fix it yet here we are

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My BJJ friend told me that 90% of fights end up on the ground? What did he mean by this? I head some BJJ people talking about it, too. Where did he get that number from? Did somebody conduct a world-wide study based on various types of fighting, fights, and fighting styles? Did somebody gather all of this information wile accounting for various and large amounts of variables, and tediously document and organize it? Were people only talking about MMA fights? Were they just talking about grappling tournaments? It'd make sense if they were talking about Judo, Wrestling, and BJJ fights. Were they saying that 90% of all street fights end up on the ground?

What percentage of MMA fights actually end up on the ground?

What percentage of street fights actually end up on the ground? Who formally documents and analyses street fights, anyway? How do you even get access to all of the street fights happening? Does google have recording satellites or something to look for street fights?

>>2870351
>>2870408
Now THIS is quality shitposting

>>2870408
admit it you dont have a friend let alone a BJJ friend you are just trying to provoke a fight of sport vs non sport or perhaps grappling vs striking or some sort of other trite derivative done 100000000 times on the internet on other martial art boards

>>2870418
>admit it you dont have a friend
You guys are my friends, right?

File: cage wrestling study maia vs masvidal 2.webm (3MB, 800x450px) Image search: [Google]

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BJJ Scout breaking down the meta game of
Maia vs Woodley

Further breaking down how folk style wrestling has become an even large chunk of MMA's meta. From riding, to TDD and grip fighting

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=iL480Rwe08c

>use to do judo for highschool
>dont really know how to re pick it up
>most places i find in my area seem to more geared towards children and fall under mcdojos
time to kill myself

>>2870879
take up wrestling then go back to judo

>>2870928
ohh kek you and your shit posting
but thanks for the bump

>>2870928
the worst thing he can do is oil checking you, it's my favorite submission escape

>>2870987
being a really good wrestler

>>2870928

>do college wrestling
>someone does the classic "wrestling is gay" whenever i try to talk to girls at parties

>>2871000
>not going "I'll show you gay" and grapplefucking him to establish dominance

>63 more post till auto sage

why is UFC and all grapplng so gay and boring? why can't real fighting look cool like in Lucha or fuck even kung fu movies i want to see people do 540 heel flip kicks in real life and smark out

>>2871074
MMA circuits will probably face pressure to reform their rules to encourage as much stand up striking as possible to preserve profitability.

Wrestling was temporarily dropped from the 2020 Olympics because nobody wants to watch dudes groping each other and attack-hugging. Even MMA spectators at large venues boo and jeer when the fight goes to the ground.

>>2871365
Then why not just watch Kung Fu or Tie Kwan Do competitions?

>>2871393
do they have kung fu competitions?

and all tkd is is just spinning shit, i think there is a webm of one call just spinning and the other guy falling down Nothing ever as cool looking as Avatar or Lucha Underground

>>2871393

I've never seen a legit chuan fa/kung fu/gong fu/quan f'ua/whatever tournament. Firstly because there are so many disparate styles and secondly because a lot of them as practiced in Current Year simply don't spar. It's a major reason why MMAutists ridicule the traditional Chinese martial arts. They claim their techniques are too deadly to practice in full-contact and either get crushed against a sportsman or fight in a manner that doesn't visually resemble their noticeable forms to the untrained eye. If there were more sanda/sanshou/open kung fu tournaments that were organized around a consistent and fair rule set and broadcast in the West, though, I'd sure watch it.

Olympic kukkikwan Tae Kwon Do is just embarrassing, especially the women's division. Two people pad up like the Michelin Man and try to Beyblade each other for points. Even WKF karate point-sparring is more interesting. An MMA fight restricted to or organized around promoting standup striking would be infinitely more interesting.

It would probably just end up looking like Muay Thai or K1/Pride kickboxing, though, in all honestly. It's just that I wouldn't doubt it ends up happening in the future. MMAutists love to say that Marquess de Queensbury boxing will die off any day now, but that sport has survived unreal opposition and corruption compared to modern MMA.

>>2871423
>Do they have kung fu competitions

The wushu contests in China (not sure about other countries) have sanda/sanshou sections. Sanshou is just the Chinese word for sparring.

However, when somebody says "kung fu competition" I assume what they're looking for is IRL fighting games where Bajiquan squares off against Xing Yi and may the most explosive palm win. Sanshou is something you'll find Chinese MMA claiming to train and use, but for most people it's indistinguishable from any other pragmatic manifestation of kickboxing.

>>2866319
Did you ever consider that the likelihood of being victimized is slim and that there's an even smaller likelihood that someone caught it on camera? And that self defense should begin with situational awareness, have a body of gun ownership, and at the very least have an epilogue regarding hand to hand combat? BJJ practitioners fuck up other martial artists, and by extension other people. I do not doubt that a good blue belt would beat the shit out of the average drunken hooligan. That being said, I have anecdotal evidence of a unathletic loser fighting off two muggers with ATA TKD. Lots of stuff will work on the average idiot. BJJ might not work when you have three people on top of you. Will Judo? Will boxing? Will MMA? Doubtful.
>inb4 the post of the Turk fighting 8 drunken dudes who fight him as if it is a Bruce Lee movie
I don't think that video is indicative of what is going to happen when you're in a fight with a gang of people. Getting bumrushed is pretty common in the fights I have seen, and I could easily see a striker handling a crowd of dipshits but you're not a god despite having the footwork and speed learned from the sweet science. If you're so worried about facing a gang of attackers, your best defense is usually social skills because why would you fight alone? Martial arts is a great way to make friends, so why not get drunk with your friends from the dojo? Hell, maybe marry another martial artist. She/her/xe/xir/cuck/cucquean might be able to help you out.

>>2871074
watch ONE. They can knee and kick downed people, and the countries don't have muh wrestling pedigree but do have MT, karate and some boxing.

>>2871543
Wow, I can't believe you're this butthurt over someone calling on the BJJ is great at self-defence bs.

Reading your post again, I would have to break it in two different aspects:

At one hand, yes, for a good self-defence the emotional intelligence is critical. To avoid stuff blowing up into a fist fight is the best way to protect yourself, and basically *ANY* good coach will teach that. And that's the point: *ANY* good coach will teach that. It doesn't matter if is karate, tkd or krav maga, any decent place will tell their students to not let things escalate into a fight, so, as for this topic goes, training BJJ won't give any special edge or value over any other style when talking about self-defence. Or do you think any boxing gym tells their students to try to fix everything by punching their opponents?

And at the other hand, as I have said previously, basically next to no martial art can prepare someone to handle all kind of street situations. However, some are better than others, and even if you know someone who can use tkd to beat a random drunk, that doesn't automatically means tkd is good to deal with any street situation. While you dismiss boxing because one video isn't good enough proof, one is still better than none. And in fact, is still not one, but at least 3 videos. You say one video about the turk on the street, but there's also the video about the guy who fought against a dozen jews (which now and then is erroneously re-uploaded as krav maga), the CCTV about the guy who ko two random thugs and the video with the guy on the beach next to his car who punched two latin guys.

So, coming back to square one, there are at least 3 videos of boxing guys handling more than one opponent with minimal to no injuries. How many videos are about a bjj guy handling more than one opponent? Show me a single tiny insignificant video of a bjj guy going to the ground and submitting more than one guy? Boxers have done it many times, bjj can do the same once?

>>2871759
you know BJJ is just more then just submissions right?


like the single most important thing about BJJ and any ground grappling is to scramble up to your feet.


also let me find a link but BJJ blue belt did wind up killing/choking out a pack of stray dogs trying to maul him that has to count right?

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>Attacked by a mugger.
>Pull out a concealed pistol and shoot him in the heart.

"Damn right! That was self-defense and standing your ground against a worthless scumbag. He had every single right to believe his life was in danger and respond with lethal force."

>Attacked by a mugger
>Use martial arts to throw him to the ground and punch him out, causing him to die from a contusion.

"You're a fucking thug. As a trained martial artist, you knew exactly how much force to use and how much power to put behind your punches to create injury, unconsciousness, or death. That was NOT self-defense; you obviously wanted to kill the guy and responded far beyond the necessary and reasonable limits of self-defense."

>Murrica

>>2871800
a well trained dog does

>>2871902
not if the dog is strapped with a well placed pipebomb

>>2871772
>like the single most important thing about BJJ and any ground grappling is to scramble up to your feet.
>single most important thing about BJJ
>is to scramble up to your feet.
>go to bjj class
>start the clock
>everybody gets down on their knees

>>2871905
cant be done

>>2871915
anything can be done with enough time

why waste your time on martial art moves they may or may not work when with the same amount of time and the cost of 1 months worth of groceries you can create a device that instills more fear and harms more people then any fighting style.


Same with the dog's training in the same time you can train a bomb sniffing dog you can plant multiple pipebombs in the owners kennel, door mat, in the dog's water dish

nothing beats a well placed pipebomb

>>2871913
your bjj class sucks then, even if you knee wrestler you learn to spring back up.

>>2871923
the well trained dog already exists, it supersedes the bomb. You can't overcome the dog

>>2871929
I would prefer if you didn't pretend that is anything other than a typical practice in bjj.

>>2871931
there are no rules in a street fight, so why are you making a rule that the dog already exists
In the streets its the first person to do the most horrible thing because its kill or be killed. And there is nothing more horrible then sheering someone's limb off with a concussive blast of a pipebomb.

No rules in the war called the streets. nothing beats a pipebomb. Not even a well train dog that may or may not exist already.

>>2871939
Why because that shits all over your crappy false narrative and stereotypes?

Imagine actually thinking that stand-up is the most important part of BJJ

>>2871943
the dog observably does exist
your bomb doesn't

you conceded the bomb must be built, you checkmated yourself and are bad at memes as well as theoretical debates, and also are an dumb

>>2871949
because it isn't true.

>>2871952
Imagine being so autistic that thinking that sweeping and learning how to stand up is the same as stand up from standing styles like boxing and wrestling.

Way to show you have no idea what you're talking about, what are you a 2nd stripe white if that? you probably don't train

BJJ the sport even rewards people of scrambling and sweeping and then getting top. using that mentality you get top you get up and stand, because you have the luxury of not being stuck on the ground .

hell most top BJJ black belts have a better top game then bottom game so most of their sweeps get them on top, if they need to in a combat situation instead of just crushing their opponent from the top they could just stand up while controlling their opponent's head and stomp on them

Which was the whole meta game of vale tudo for like 20 years and why people developed leg locks to counter being stomped on.

>>2871957
>>2871957
Show me said dog? The dog is fake but pipebombs and other IEDs have been implemented in the highest level of street fighting called the warzone for the last 40 years.

You are bad at this thing called street fighting, this isn't a debate this isnt dumb this is a fight to the bitter end , just like in the streets and nothing beats the streets like a well placed pipebomb
man, beast or foreign policy

>>2871966
lemme stop you right there, under ibjjf rules which is what most tournaments follow its an outright violation to repeatedly disengage and stand up. You will be warned and have points deducted if you do it too much, so don't try to convince anyone you have ever competed if you don't know that.
Sweeps and takedowns are worth 2 points while transitions and control positions are worth 3 and 4. That is done to further encourage you to get down and stay down because you will get more points on the ground than you can standing.

>>2871966

Imagine thinking that you need to stand up to sweep

kek

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>>2871975
the dog is walking the street, the bomb doesn't exist until it is detected or until it goes off. You fell for one of the classic blunders and got Schrodingered

>>2871988
I have competed and probably medal more then you have. Fuck i probably am closer to a ref then your garage buddies that you play make believe
you ever been to a IBJJF ref meeting? You can armchair lawyer the interpretation all you want to fit your false narrative.

With the gamesmanship of rules you ca be give several warnings before point deduction and that has happen a shit load of times in Brazil and shit load of times in America, hell back in the last 90s and early 00s there was an entire rivalry between several high level black belts from Alliance BJJ and Gracie Barra because people were doing that, it force the rule change later (Alliance put a lot of people with wrestling backgrounds to sandbag in several compeitions, they were able to spring up and stall out the matches). However it supports my point that people who train BJJ even at low levels know they can have get up and disengage is it shitty and none fun to see them do it? yeah but sports BJJ has a long ass history of people doing whatever they can do to outedge and out point their opponent

using that mentality i am confident those kind of people and BJJ people in general can use their art to get up in a fight if they were knocked down instead of just head hunting or rather in this case submission hunting needlessly

>>2872003
Schrodinger pipebomb exist in plane of existence and doesn't exist until observed. Nothing beats a quantum physics pipebomb

>>2872017

Poster above said that a BJJ school was garbage if they started on knees during rolls

Next poster said that it's completely ridiculous to think that starting from standing is the fundamental aspect of BJJ (which is correct)

You called him a 2 stripe white belt while apparently not realizing that you can work top game and sweeps while starting on knees

>>2872032
You are samefagging
I stand by my point that BJJ most important aspect is to stand and scramble

The green text dog shit implies that my point is non valid because knee wrestle and staying on the ground

Way to suck at reading comprehension white belt

>>2872023
The dog is a 5th dimensional being
your pipebomb exist as a 3d dimension object in quantum flux

The dog wins

>>2872054
Pressure passing is a viable alternative to disengaging to pass.

>>2872057
The pipebomb is so well placed its inside a black hole which condenses and warps the reality around it from n sub -1 to n +8 where n is the value of the speed of light. It wouldnt matter if the dog was 5th dimensional or n dimensional the well placed pipebomb would get it.

>>2872054
you are wrong

position over submission, position over submission, position, position, position, how many times does that get repeated to you while training as the pillar of jiujitsu? and you come here and say SCRAMBLE MOTHERFUCKER!!!!

and your disrespect for white belts also exposes your lack of experience. if you were ever a white belt yourself and went through the shit a white belt goes through you would have the most respect for them out of anyone in the gym. They are the ones that show up every night, get their shit smashed for months on end, and still walk out with a good attitude happy they are learning something new.
they work harder, and are more fearless than anybody on the floor. every time they step out the fight for their lives just hoping to do a little bit better and that's admirable.

>>2872083
That's some impressive shit posting you got right there

Scrambling is position, scrambling is the intricate, thoughtful and deliberate use of applying position to counter position to get to your end game which is superior position

So fuck yes i stand by saying SCRAMBLE MOTHERFUCKERS because if you want to get good you need to get good at your position IE SCRAMBLE

The last paragraph is trash

White belts are spassy, injury making injury prone a lot of them quit after awhile fuck it took me 6 years to be purple and thats when you become even a tad admirable but even then you get grinded to paste to browns and blacks.

The nature of the game of BJJ and grappling is its painful, frustrating and soul crushing all at the same time. White belts often come in arrogant and they dont know how to work hard yet. The ones that do pass the first year or two of heartache might get some respect but fuck know nothing white belts or people who dont train spouting their ignorance or worse yet spouting arrogantly their ignorance are the worse.


So no you are wrong on like every fucking possible level

>>2872101

You keep missing the point. NOTHING that you say here is incompatible with starting a round on your knees.

>>2872101
>Scrambling is position
no, scrambles are the antithesis of positioning. You force scrambles because you lost a position, you force scrambles because you are trapped and there isn't a safe way out, you force scrambles because you are stuck and about to get tapped. A scramble is throwing a hand grenade on the chess board, it's not something you want to do, it's your emergency eject button. That's the thing about the scramble, you don't know where it's going to end up, you might save yourself and you might end up fucked even harder if the other guys scrambles to a better spot.

>took me 6 years to be purple
yeesh..that explains why you hate white belts so much I guess. That's a really long time, so I guess you have the personal problem of really sucking at this (maybe you shouldn't scramble so often :P)
you probably have that pent up resentment of seeing white belts go zooming past you in the rankings

I actually can't think of anyone I know personally that took longer than 4 years to get there

>>2872129

btfo desu senpai

>>2872129
You are such an ignorant cuck
Chain grappling is another name for scrambles you can force an offensive scramble by flowing or chaining your position into another. Same with defensive scrambles you react and chain together your position and grapple

What you are describing is not scrambling but spazzing because you are use to losing your position and forcing a new offensive or defensive position and mixing it up hence you're skewed POV of scramble

When you actually get good or fucking decent you learn to flow and chain your shit in a control fashion.

Also 6 years is called college you retard i finish college and couldn't compete cause of classes

Fuck it takes a majority of people 5 years to get to blue. Me getting purple isnt all that bad an uncommon

BTFO white belt again you are spewing misinformation and garbage from your inexperience point of view.

>>2872148
you should spend 6 months to a year at white, maybe up to 18 months if you are progressing really slowly, blue belt 2, maybe 3 years again if you're progressing slowly.
not at all uncommon to see purple happen inside of 3 years if someone has an affinity for it
Like even at the slowest level of progression I've seen I still can't get to 6 years of you haven't taken time off. And if you've taken time off you shouldn't be including that in your number for dramatic effect.

Also more importantly, if someone told you that's what the word scramble means, they misinformed you. You are describing transitioning.
a scramble is very specifically taking a fork and swishing it around wildly in the egg yolk to break it apart and mix it up
imagine that process with your body

>>2872171
You are trying to argue semantics and that's stupid as fuck

A fast transition is a scramble

And its common as fuck if you are in the know that promotion is subjective from coach to coach. Trying to berate that i'm a purple is laughable. I love that i broke a part your ignorance piece by piece and all you got is trying to tie me down with a battle of semantics and belittle my accomplishments you must be seething

>>2872176
>seething
wrassle fag, not much of a surprise

I'm sorry you think getting rank in a martial art is an achievement, because unless it's something like a USJF black belt where your ranking is based on points scored in competition, you really didn't achieve anything. You just continued to pay your monthly dues and eventually attended enough classes to back into a promotion, just like everyone else does.
To you your belt may be worth a lot, but for everybody else in the world it's worth about $12 on amazon

also you are using the word semantics wrong as well as the word scramble
I'm arguing semantics by saying you misused semantics, I'm not arguing semantics by telling you that you are misusing the word scramble when you are insisting you are using it correctly to describe something else. Then it's just a correction.

one more thing. You still never addressed what that other guy was saying about how for some reason you think all the stuff you are describing cant be done from the knees

>>2872200
You say you're making a correction however your correction is fundamentally wrong because you dont have the knowledge so you fill in your lack of knowledge with a false pretense and create a false narrative.

My rank is a great accomplishment and is a merit to the people in the martial art community. you can try to devalue you because i devalued your false knowledge but i am in the right because i put in the mat time to and have been accredited to know my knowledge.

If my belt is 12 bucks on amazon you're no nothing is worth the dry cum found on a kink's submission wrestling film set.

Knee wrestling is garbage because it teaches garbage habits either you roll starting from a takedown or guard pull or you start your roll from being pin or getting pin. Its how you scramble better .

Knee wrestling is unnatural garbage

>>2872217
and for the record one last time though, I agree with you starting from the knees is dumb
but you're insisting that isn't what's typical of bjj schools which is what led to you digging that really deep hole of wrong information

>>2872176
Imagine being this incorrect

>>2872222
checked

>>2871772
This is getting pathetic.

Dogs aren't designed by nature to grapple. They don't have the strength in the legs, or the claws or talons to break free from a hold, unlike a tiger or a horse, they entirely rely on their bites to kill their prey. Choking a dog with a back hold choke is like winning in a race against a bird, but walking, no flying allowed, or winning in a jumping contest against a turtle.

But, hey, sure, show us that video that totally exists of a guy using bjj against a dog pack. There are reports of adults being badly injured or outright killed by stray dogs, so is totally credible that some hardcore bjj guy managed to handle more than one dog in a fight.

I mean, a quick search on YouTube gave a bunch of guys playing with their house dogs. If the previous "bjj on da streetz" compilation is any indication, then I’m eager to watch some adult on the ground messing with their Chihuahua dogs.

>tfw had a dream that I put a hot chick that I know from highschool who became a bodybuilder in a RNC while my friends and girlfriend watched
>I couldn't finish the choke but had a massive erection
What does it all mean

>>2872969
Maybe what it means doesn't matter, but what's important is what you think of it that matters.

Imagine being a purple belt and thinking that "scramble" means "transitioning to a new position quickly"

seriously exposed your lack of knowledge

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=V6RrxTBdJs4

>Chinese MMA calls out mystics and snake oil salesman in the state-sponsored and often fraudulent acrobatics theater that the Post-Cultural Revolution Chinese martial arts have become.

>Tai Chi Chuan master claims that he could break out of an MMA submission hold with one arm and his life force energy.

>MMA artist issues challenge. Tai Chi sifu accepts.

>They fight and hilarity ensues. Predictably, the MMA guy wins in like 10 seconds.

>Chinese public is outraged.

>Combination of supremely deferential culture finding it immoral to expose bullshit if it means depriving a "respected person" of "face" and the government wanting to maintain the supernatural aura of Chinese martial arts.

>MMA guy forced into hiding. Has threats made on his life and business.

>State run media lies about the whole thing. Claims MMA guy was a brash trash talker when Tai Chi master actually did most of the shit-talking and condescending tut-tutting.

>A few weeks later, MMA guy accepts new challenge.

>Chinese police literally storm in and arrest him before the fight can start.

>CHING CHONG SHUT IT DOWN!

I used to think Koreans were the kikes of the TMA, but damn the chinks are giving them a run for their jade.

>>2873234
snake oil is actually very high in omega 3s and good for relieving chronic inflammation. Big pharma managed to convince the general public that their addictive and harmful drugs are better than natural supplements.

>>2873199
it leaves me very skeptical, but also possible because he mentioned training at college. I know many colleges have student organized jiujitsu clubs where its just a bunch of guys watching youtube videos and practicing what they see on each other a la gracie university.
reminds me of this one guy who took part in that type of thing and was a 5 year blue belt and couldn't beat any of the 2 stripe white belts in our gym

>>2873641
>Big pharma managed to convince the general public that their addictive and harmful drugs are better than natural supplements.
What do you think about aspirin?

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Man what the fuck, what happen to this thread?

>>2873199
English is not my mother tongue, could you define scramble in grappling point of view please?

>>2871952
It is. To be on the bottom in bjj is only survival.
an american fellow outted this a few years ago:
#1: Be the guy on top.
# 2: When on top, stay on top.
# 3: When on bottom, have a guard you shall not pass.
# 4: Never forget Rule 1: do not have a game that is overly dependent on bottom guard.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5V-ucGFMTE8

>>2873961

yeah because it's not as if any of the top black belts in the world ever pull guard

>>2874000
I appealed to authority, but backed my words with someone who walked the path.
You did just spout some bullshit. Guard wins bjj tournament, not MMA bout anymore.
Calm down, sip some açai, and keep on with your berimbolos, since some gifted cunts pulled some in MMA matches this year.

>>2873712
I know beyer manufactures antivenom that costs $20 a dose to manufacture and charges hospitals $1600 a dose for it

>>2874686
Yeah, but that's because of how the medical and insurance systems work. Basically, there's a lot of haggling going around on all sides, so they start at a super high price and it gets worked down to a reasonable-ish one.

>>2873946
You're both mobile and trying to get into position with no clear advantage to either side

New thread goes here:

>>2875168