Many wrestlers are memed as "ant-draws" here on /asp/

All of those guys, except Orton, are draws to varying degrees.

Who the fuck ever said Angle wasn't a draw?

Nash is the lowest-drawing WWF Champ of ALL-time per Pat Patterson

Defining a draw would differ from which decade the wrestler peaked. And from your list, CM Punk is the only Draw

>>2839978
Who said he was?

>>2839982

Me, he was easily within the top 5 draws during the hottest period in the business. Arguably top 3.

>>2839968
CM Punk Anti Draw? Who came up with this shit? The guy has drawn in 3 different industries.

>>2839982
TNA's highest-ever buyrates

>>2839991
80k?

>>2839978

In that Nash thread I believe people were talking about how he wasn't much of a draw.

>>2839980

Yep CM Punk by far is the biggest draw in the list. The rest drew negative dimes.

>>2839987

Has he drawn outside of finding with Rock or Stone cold in PPVs? What were his merch sales numbers? House show averages?

>>2840010

He main evented WM with Lesnar, among many other things throughout his WWE run. He was also part of the highest drawing match TNA has ever had, against Joe. This is a company that had Hogan and it certainly wasn't Joe's star power carrying him.

>>2840017

I mean The Miz main evented wrestlemania but doesn't mean he is a draw.

Maybe Brock and the event itself was the draw and Angle was just the B+ guy.

>>2840004

CM Punk a bigger draw than Hart ? Yeah I don't think so.

>>2840023

The miz main-evented the universally accepted shittiest WM main event of all time.

This meme of "who did they draw with that wasn't a draw" shit is fucking retarded.

What anti-draws did anybody who is a draw bring up to a drawing level for their match?

Is Lesnar an anti-draw because nobody gave a shit about his match with Ambrose?

>>2839968
No one but Bret was ever offered a 20 year contract

>>2839968
>1) Bret Hart
Draw
>2)Shawn
Somewhat of a draw
>3) Nash
as diesel: not a draw
in WCW: draw
>4)Punk
draw
>5) Orton
probably not a draw
>6) Bryan
draw
>7) Angle
draw
>8) Jericho
draw

>>2840032
CM Punk is a bigger draw than anyone in the WWE who is not Stone Cold or John Cena

>>2840036

The Miz-Cena wrestlemania PPV buys were apparently good. I remember reading in the Nash top 3 PPVs thread that the event drew a lot. Maybe I am remembering it wrong.

>>2840023
Lesnar wasn't a draw in 2003

>>2840067
The PPV buys were good because Rock was hosting

>>2839968
All you have to do is google raw ratings and the company's financial intake from the mid nineties to see that Nash wasn't a draw. He's the worst draw in wrestling history.

>>2840062

Is this bait ? Even if we exclude Hart you're still forgetting Hogan , Brock and HHH(even he drew a slot during the peak of his popularity), Goldberg etc...

>>2840071

Oh I forgot it was his first big return in a long time right.

>>2840074

OP here I am not just talking about his WWE run as diesel though. You can include his drawing ability after his return and his run during WCW.

>>2840083
nWo was the draw

>>2840075

And The Rock, Andre the Giant and possibly savage.

>>2840087
Hogan was a draw. Eliminate Hogan from the nWo and they wouldn't have drawn shit. Nash was basically the Triple H of WCW. He was on a roster with Hogan, Goldberg, DDP, Sting, Flair and the cruiser weights. They were the draws, and Nash, like HHH with Austin and the Rock, likes to pretend he was a part of that.
As for his WWE return, ratings began a steady decline from 2002 onwards.

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>>2839968
>Bret
People were still hooked on big guys like Hogan and Savage, and they left to WCW so Vince was left with Bret. Many fans didn't like him, but his fans stayed, which is why the audiences used to mark out for him.

>Shawn
Same reason. He and Bret were changing the business by making it more technical and fast paced. It took years for his labor to come to fruition, especially with all of the top names being in WCW (Hogan, Savage, Outsiders). Until putting over Austin at WM 14, he was the one carrying the company.

>Nash
Again, the big names had left and the fans of the technical fans that stayed couldn't stand Nash. He was a big guy and would have been a gigantic draw a few years prior, but the business was changing, especially in the WWF.

>Punk
Consistently a fan favorite and his "pipe bomb" was well received, but again, wrestling was on a downward spiral. All of the big names had gone, so it was just Cena and Punk. No real characters in wrestling anymore so everyone tuned out.

>Orton
Heel champions are rarely draws and a lot of people got bored of the Orton/Cena/Edge circlejerk. Wasn't a bad draw, but wasn't a good draw. And his last run didn't do him any favors.

>Bryan
He was a draw and was kind of like the Austin for the indie smarks. He's also what caused the modern indie influx in WWE, contrary to the people who think it was because of Punk.

>Angle
No one ever disputes his drawing power. He was good and put asses in seats in 2005/2006 as WHC.

>Jericho
No one really pays to see him, but everyone loves him. He's kind of like Kane. Now I admit, his off-air stuff with Rock, Haitch,, Angle, and Austin was nothing short of gold, he rarely brought that out on-air until last year, so he was kind of holding himself back for a long time.

>>2840106
Orton is a proven anti-draw even when babyface

>>2840075
>>2840088
>is this bait?
No, Punk's rise was in an era where wrestling had reached the decline point in the product lifecycle parabola. You throw Punk back in time to their era, he would probably outdraw them all combined

>>2840101

But you have to admit that HHH and Nash politicked their way top the top and stayed there for such a long time always associating themselves with hot acts that they became draws themselves at one point.

In that wolfpack thread where people calculated top 3 ppv buys(that didn't include major draws like Rock or Austin) Triple H had a good showing.

>>2840101
Such bullshit. All you need to do is look at Nash's numbers when Hogan & Goldberg were not on the card.

DDP? LMAO he was never an elite draw. DDP vs. Goldberg at Halloween Havoc 98 did 280k buys with Hogan vs. Warrior on card. Nash vs. Goldberg did 450k buys with no Hogan on card.

Crusierweights? you're straight up delusional.

>>2840124
>You throw Punk back in time to their era, he would probably outdraw them all combined

And you claim it's not bait.

You sly dog.

>>2840126
Starrcade was WCW's Wrestlemania

>>2840124

He would've been in a Roster full of stars who could talk and had great personas/characters and didn't have to do worked shoots to get over.

He would have been Jericho level. His pipebomb wouldn't have been so shocking either.

>>2840131
Already debunked this as not mattering at all. Don't make me humiliate and embarrass you.

>>2840133
>The Pipebomb wouldn've have been more shocking in the 80s

wot

>>2840139
What are you gonna do: make me live out your "life"?

>>2840131
Fuck it...

Starrcade was never on Wrestlemania's level. With the exception of 1997 & 2003, WrestleMania has always been WWE's best performing PPV of the year usually by significant amount of buys.

With the exception of 1997, Starracde drew as much as any other PPV
>Starrcade 1988 drew 150,000 buys. Two months earlier Halloween Havoc drew 215,000 buys
>Starrcade 1989 drew 150,000 buys. Two months earlier Halloween Havoc drew 215,000 buys
>Starrcade 1990 drew 175,000 buys. Two months earlier Halloween Havoc drew 200,000 buys
>Starrcade 1991 drew 100,000 buys. Two months earlier Halloween Havoc drew 100,000 buys
>Starrcade 1992 drew 100,000 buys. Two months earlier Halloween Havoc drew 120,000 buys
>Starrcade 1994 drew 140,000 buys. Two months earlier Halloween Havoc drew 225,000 buys
>Starrcade 1995 drew 95,000 buys and was LOWEST bought out of nine WCW PPV's that year.
>Starrcade 1996 drew 240,000 buys. Three months later Uncensored 1997 drew 250,000 buys
>Starrcade 1998 drew 450,000 buys. Two months later SuperBrawl 1999 drew 450,000 buys
>Starrcade 1999 drew 120,000 buys. One month earlier Mayhem 1999 drew 165,000 buys.
>Starrcade 2000 drew 50,000 buys. One month earlier Mayhem 2000 drew 60,00 buys.

Wrestlemania has always beem the one event that the wrestling world stops for and is and always has been the pinnacle of the wrestling/sports entertainment year, Starrcade just seemed like another PPV. WWE did their job to make WrestleMania the grandaddy of them all. WCW didn't.

>>2840143

You very well know I was referring to the attitude era and not the 80s but yeah as others have said this is massive bait (claiming he could've outdrawn them combined) .

Why do E-drones hat Nash so much? You treat him as though Diesel was the only thing that happened in his career and forget about the NWO.

>>2840160

It's less E-drones and more Punk fans and indie fans.

>>2840106
>He was a draw and was kind of like the Austin for the indie smarks. He's also what caused the modern indie influx in WWE, contrary to the people who think it was because of Punk.

Care to elaborate ? Because almost everyone I've seen credit Punk for that.

>>2840160
Because the nWo was a group affair while Diesel is him failing of his own accord.

>>2839989
Punk couldn't even main event a PPV on his own.

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>>2839968
>mfw my favorite wrestler will never draw ants

>>2840074
>Raw ratings
Was the champion even on Raw back then? You have to use PPV buys.

>>2840176

Who is it? Is it Benoit? Eddie? Jericho?

>>2840160
There is excuse will be it was all Hogan despite fact house show business increased 57% in 1997 and Hogan, Savage, and Sting didn't work house shows that year (must have been Luger). Not t mention someone had to carry show and PPV's when Hogan went on lengthy absences due to his part time schedule, movie work an to ensure he was always hot and remained on top.

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>>2839968

>>2840186

Wasn't WWE near bankruptcy during Brets first run and he brought it back to life?

>it's a Wolfcuc gets triggered and posts his tweets thread

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>>2840194

>>2840200
He didn't post it. I follow the guy on Twitter because he always drops knowledge.

Crying about "wolfcuc" all the time makes you look like a cuck. You'd be better off proving him wrong..... good luck with that!!!

>>2840206
> Fin Martin from powerslam magazine

Forgive me for my ignorance but is this a guy and a magazine that I should take seriously.

Because I've heard better things about Bret from more reliable people, that WWE was indeed in trouble after Hogan left but Bret kept it afloat despite the overall shitty product.

>>2840227
How can you dispute what he says. Look on what did to The Rock at WM X8 and Ultimate Warrior at WM VI.

Hogan indeed would have humiliated Bret if they wrestled in 1993.

>>2840253
Hogan wasn't as stale in '90 and '02 as he was in '93, but yes, his star would have greatly outshone Brets, but not passing the torch to the next guy absolutely hurt the company.

>>2840253

What happened with the Rock was a combination of Nostalgia, the usual cheers for a returning superstar and Toronto being Toronto.(even then The Rock still had good support)

Also it's not about Bret being more over than Hogan or not but whether he drew or not as champion.

>>2840262

Big bossman bigger ratings draw than the Rock. Hmmmm.

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CM Punk a draw....ha!

>>2840263

Yep it seems like this dude is keen on ignoring context and moving goalposts.

Nobody claimed Hart was a bigger star than Hogan Just that Hart wasn't as bad as people say when it comes to drawing.

>>2840036
>The miz main-evented the universally accepted shittiest WM main event of all time.
If you started watching yesterday maybe
Plus the buyrate was good

>>2840273
It was because he was only on WWF TV 2 or 3 months in late 1998 as opposed to 12 months and was involved in segments with Austin and McMahon

Don't know why Meltzer included Bossman in this but leaves out Warrior and Piper who drew huge in 1998. I think his criteria was they had to have been in at least 12 TV segments in head to head competition.

When Warrior and Piper included it look like this

1. Savage +4.37
2. Flair +4.16
3. Piper +3.91
4. Warrior +2.80
5. Hogan +2.70
6. Austin +2.65
7. Bossman +2.57
8. Anderson +2.46
9: Sting +2.46
10. Nash +2.23
11. Goldberg +2.09
12. McMahon +2.06

>>2840283
What do you consider a worse WM main event? I can't think of anything less interesting than Miz vs. Cena.

>>2840289

Is meltzer retarded or something? Why would he not take into account the number of appearances when deciding a ratings Draw?

>>2840289
>1. Savage +4.37
What was Savage doing in '98? I barely remember anything big from him.

>>2839968

So the only thing we can agree on was that orton was never a big draw.

>>2840319
Yes.

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>>2840302
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=yOt7Pw9GbZQ

Feuded with Lex Luger in Jan/Feb plus was nWo rebel punching Bischoff and had heat with Nash.

Feuded with Hogan for nWo leadership in March.

Beat Sting for Word title in April but lost it 1 day later after getting screwed by Bret Hart. Formed Wolfpac with Kevin Nash.

Feuded with Bret Hart & Roddy Piper in May & June. Fought DDP in cage but got attacked by nWo to write him off TV for knee injury.

>>2840326
Man those were some good times in wrestling.

>>2840175
>main eventing is the only way you can be a draw

>>2840017
>He main evented WM with Lesnar, among many other things throughout his WWE run.

which did a terrible buyrate

Angle is a guy that everyone assumes is a big draw but then you look at his actual numbers and it turns out he isnt

>>2840351
Angle-Lesnar was not promoted as the main event for WM19.

>>2840354

The dude was a comedic heel during a good part of his career and was rarely a face and Had HHHetty trying bury him from the beginning.He was never the guy . He was always the transitional champ.

Have comedic heels ever drawn anything?

I feel like Angle never got the serious push or a hot angle he deserved. (I think he should have gotten HHHs push) and when did become a serious guy his body was a wreck and they used him as nothing more than a transitional champ.