I can't be the only one loving the smug Roman Reigns, right?

>>2806118
It's actually growing on me a bit. I wish they'd let him be heel instead of making him the next Cena. He would be such a bastard heel, I'd say he'd be second only to the Miz.

If they just went full bore with it and let him be heel, I'd be down with it, but they're still trying to convince me that The Big Dog is the greatest and I love him because of how great he is.

>>2806179
They can't have a heel as the face of the company even tho ufc can have Connor and yet he's popular

he is the greatest of all time and now the most over guy in history

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>That promo after WrestleMania when he stood there and let the crowd boo him for 10 minutes, then said my yard now and dropped the mic

Pure ring kino

>>2806118
If it results in him putting over other guys as a way of getting his comeuppance, great.

Otherwise, he comes off as an unlikable cunt.

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>>2806179
What if they're doing that to make the boos even louder because as soon as he's turned into a heel, smarks will cheer him like the dumbasses that they are?

>>2806250
He just put over Samoa Joe here: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WN7hPWdrmNc

Hell, he even acknowledges that he's "Samoa" Joe instead of "Just" Joe, which is a subtle nuance I liked.

>>2806254
Even though your concept is farcical, I'm gonna follow it through for a second. Say he does get cheered.
>I retired the Undertaker.

Wow, look at that, he's booed again. That was hard.

>>2806312
>settling with midway heat by bringing up the Undertaker to get cheap heat rather than the nuclear heat of having commentary shill for him and him winning matches on your favorite wrestlers

They've learned from Lex Luger, Rocky Maiveia, and John Cena.

There's nothing audiences hate more than being force-fed a wrestler and begging them to like him. Organic all-natural heat.

He's either getting better at reading the garbage they give him or they're letting him have some freedom. Had they done that 3 years ago, he'd probably be viewed exactly how they pretend he is right now.

>>2806320
>it's forced therefore it's organic

What did he mean by this?

>>2806320
>cheap heat
The only kind heels today are capable of getting. Most of the time it's the cheapest kind where they just insult the city.

>>2806221
You can't have your "Face of the Company" be a Go-Away Heat anti-draw either

>>2806254
>because as soon as he's turned into a heel, smarks will cheer him like the dumbasses that they are?

I'd like you to cite 1 instance of this ever happening.

When has a babyface with go-away heat turned heel to immediate cheers?

>>2806320
that isn't natural. Once you bring a retarded metagame into it you can't be organic. It's literally breaking the fourth wall and saying "heh, we know you hate this guy as an actual face, so we'll keep pushing him as one, and any negative reactions means he's working you or we're working you". Basically the wrestling version of "I was just pretending to be retarded"

>>2807210
>The only kind heels today are capable of getting.

Roman gets natural heat by existing and being pushed.

Meta heat almost.

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>>2807210
>cheap heat

>>2807217
The only way pushing a babyface like a heel works is when you actually turn him.

>>2807217
>that isn't natural. Once you bring a retarded metagame into it you can't be organic.

You seem to forget what happened to "Die, Rocky, Die!" signs.

>>2807212
>I'd like you to cite 1 instance of this ever happening.

Why do you think Vinne Mac hotshotted him back to the Main Event scene after putting the U.S. Title on him?

Fans were cheering him again.

>>2807233
>Reigns was getting cheered over Handsome RuRu or Jeri-KO

Not only are you lying but this isn't even answering the question I asked.

Even for a Romark this is fuckin' DUMB.

>>2807243
Except he is getting cheered over RuRu (not Jeri-KO) by the marks (since smarks just love cheering intentional heels).

>>2807246
>the m-m-marks

And yet he's still overwhelmingly NOT the crowd favourite.

Still waiting on an actual answer to my question btw

>>2807252
He was being cheered if you were paying attention. He also got a Cena-like half-and-half reaction last night.

>>2807255
I was paying attention to Rusev getting clear support over the supposed "Face of WWE"

Still waiting for an actual answer

>He also got a Cena-like half-and-half reaction last night.

Half of them booed and half of them didn't care?

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>>2807212
>When has a babyface with go-away heat turned heel to immediate cheers?

18+ site, Millennial.

>>2807258
>not realizing Roman is following the same trajectory the Rock made with his failed Rocky Maivia push, right down to being an x-generation superstar

>>2806221
Who was the face of the company when The Rock and Austin were a thing?

>>2807260
You're a Millennial too unless you're underage or circling 40

>to IMMEDIATE cheers

The first Rock promo had fans screaming "ROCK-Y SUCKS" 'til its end.

Good job, dumbshit.

>>2807264
kek at this point in Roman's career Rock had gotten so over WWE named its 2nd broadcast after his catchphrase and was cast in The Mummy Returns

WWE Films don't even want Romannetty

>>2807278
>The first Rock promo had fans screaming "ROCK-Y SUCKS" 'til its end.

And Roman was still getting booed initially throughout his U.S. Title run before slowly turning the crowd around.and earning his main event spot again.

What's your point? Why does it have to be "immediate"?

>>2807286
Don't blame me:

I didn't set the "as soon as he's turned into a heel" terms.

>before slowly turning the crowd around

nope

>and earning his main event spot again.

NOPE

>>2807297
That's the point. Smarks will cheer Reigns just to shit on the WWE once they turn him.

Because that's what smarks do. WWE should never listen to smarks like you who have been wrong about things like John Cena or CM Punk.

>>2806118

cringe

>>2807307
>Smarks will cheer Reigns just to shit on the WWE once they turn him.

Yeah look at how many "smarks" cheered on Sheamus when he was forcing Ziggler to eat his salad

>smarks living in your head rent-free

>Smarks shit on Roman for being a good guy
>Smarks love Roman for being a smug heel

WWE can't win

>>2807311
We're talking about Roman and the Rock here though.

Don't compare him to heatless guys like Sheamus.

>>2807317
>Smarks love Roman for being a smug heel

But he's never been a smug heel outside NXT

>>2807329
>Sheamus
>heatless

Crowds fucking HATED Fella back when he was taking joyrides in Alberto's car. You got a better current analogy?

>>2807339
>Sheamus
>heatless

He is. He tried making a joke of kicking Jeff's tooth out and the crowd just stared.

>>2807339
>But he's never been a smug heel outside NXT

He's being a smug face now.

Which is a helluva better than John Cena attempting to ingratiate himself with every crowd he's in front of.

>>2807343
>back when

Context matters.

>>2807347
>smug face
>different to Cena

>>2807363
>back when

He's heatless now. That's what matters.

>>2807363
>smug face
>different to Cena

If you can't tell the difference between the half-and-half reaction Cena gets versus the universal hatred Roman gets and how differently they react to those crowds, then there's no helping you.

You can't be relied to analyze anything with a modicum of nuance.

>>2807374
They're both still insufferable dipshits pushed as superheroes, what's the difference?

>blah-blah-blah armchair psych

YAWN

>>2807371
Not for the purposes of this conversation

>>2807389
>Not for the purposes of this conversation
>He's not heatless because I told you so.

Not how it works.

>>2806118
If you like roman without him getting what;s his and actually losing a feud, you are what's wrong with this fanbase,

>>2807402
That's also not even what I said.

>>2807418
>hate Roman for always winning all the time
>hate Roman for being protected when he loses
>hate Roman when he's losing a feud

Roman is shaping up to be a GOAT-tier heel.

>>2807426
You claimed he isn't heatless by citing heat he got years ago and I cited he's heatless by a more recent example, though.

He'd make a cool anti hero but they'd have to let him loosen up his promos and give him a DTA Austin gimmick too

>>2807443
He's starting to.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=P29Ar82ZN1U

That's the swagger I've been waiting to see from him since 2014.

>>2807455
Lmao I thought Steiner came out for a second I almost marked

>>2807441
That's not what I did at all. Maybe try asking an adult to read it to you?

>>2807443
People still want to like anti-heroes.

People do not want to like Romannetty.

>>2807489
>That's not what I did at all.
see>>2807339
>Crowds fucking HATED Fella back when he was taking joyrides in Alberto's car.

That's the part where you said he had heat years ago.

>>2807343
>He is. He tried making a joke of kicking Jeff's tooth out and the crowd just stared.

This is the part where I cited a more recent example.

Your move.

>>2807431
>not actually heel
>never actually loses

>>2807498
He's gonna give smarks a REIGN OF TERROR II that they'll never forget if he ever goes heel.

If he doesn't, expect him to do Make a Wish Foundation requests like Cena.

>>2807497
Imagine being so obsessed with getting le one-up that it renders you functionally illiterate.

The context of this conversation you've apparently jumped in on is about:

>rejected babyfaces turning heel to immediate cheers

2017 Sheamus hasn't got shit to do with that.

>cited a more recent example

...of a rejected babyface turning heel to immediate cheers? Oh no (You) most certainly did not.

Can we follow along yet?

>>2807504
So you admit that you were wrong? Or don't admit it even though you're still wrong?

>>2807518
>still can't follow

holy shit there's no hope for (You)

It's alright when he's promoing but he tends to let the smug expressions go from cocky to stupid. He pulls the dumbest faces in the ring, and I'm not one of those 'boo Roman all the time' guys.

>>2807533
>can't admit that he's wrong
>resorts to ad hominem because he was proven wrong about Sheamus being heatless

I accept your concession.

he's gotta start blowing the smarks out of the building

he'll be liked more by those who hate smarks

>>2807580
This.

Like what Miz did with his Talking Smack promo seemingly aimed at Bryan but really aimed at "Muh Workrate" Smarks.

>>2807575
>can't read
>thinks being illiterate makes him right

Imagine being genuinely ignorant towards the subject but still attempting to discuss it.

Tell me in your own words exactly what (You) think we're discussing.

>>2807580
nobody hates smarks except betas online like (You)

>>2807603
>can't admit he's wrong
>still keeps deflecting rather than admit he's wrong

All I need to do is point this out over and over again.

>>2807603
>nobody hates smarks

- t. smark

>>2807616
The cognitive dissonance is astounding.

But I guess asking you what you think we're discussing is too challenging a question.

>>2807620
>can only read 3 words

>>2807629
>The cognitive dissonance is astounding.

And yet you're the one who can't acknowledge that Sheamus is heatless currently.

>>2807629
>t. smark actually believes that the mainstream audience don't hate them or even know about them

Delusional.

>>2807631
Why do I need to acknowledge something that's immaterial to what I'm discussing?

>being this desperate to one-up somebody

>>2807633
I believe they don't care.

>>2807640
>Why do I need to acknowledge something that's immaterial to what I'm discussing?
>Something suddenly is immaterial even though he's the one who brought Sheamus up and he's he one who got BTFO in regards to him being heatless

U-huh.

>>2807645
>can't even spell "Uh-huh"

IT'S A NEW LOW YES IT IS!

Sheamus was brought up because he's a perfect modern example of a WWE babyface getting rejected, turning heel and continuing to receive heat from the crowd immediately after his turn.

What, do I need to draw (You) a diagram?

>>2807653
>Sheamus was brought up because he's a perfect modern example of a WWE babyface getting rejected, turning heel and continuing to receive heat from the crowd immediately after his turn

Not really, since he's heatless now. Roman actually gets reactions.

>>2807657
>immediately after his turn

These 4 words sunk your entire post.

But hey, at least (You) understand now. All it took was spoonfeeding!

>>2807665
But long term he didn't fly so good.

Or you just want Roman to turn, get temporary heat, then have his heat gone?

>>2807682
If he's as good as his apologists claim he is, he should have no problem maintaining the heat. ;'P

>something in WWE failing long term

Shocker.

>>2807691
He's good in his role right now. Let's see it develop naturally.

He's following the same footsteps as his cousin or whatever, Dwayne. And he hasn't even gotten "Die, Roman, die!" signs yet.

>>2807712
Is his role "superhero babyface the crowd hates"? Sounds like a bizarre casting decision.

>following Dwayne's career

At this point Dwayne had been cast in The Mummy Returns and had the B-show named after his catchphrase.

>>2807718
>Is his role "superhero babyface the crowd hates"?

Like I said, if you refuse to allow for nuance when looking at how Roman Reigns' promos have improved, then there's no point discussing this with you.

>At this point Dwayne had been cast in The Mummy Returns and had the B-show named after his catchphrase.

The Rock is the perfect example of somehow who can do a heel turn and make it work after being hated as a babyface.

He's more hated as Rocky Maivia than Roman Reigns is hated now.

>>2807739
This argument only works if Reigns turns heel.

>le nuance

They're still editing video packages to make it seem like Reigns isn't booed.

Petty wink-wink nudge-nudge references to being hated don't matter if they're irrelevant and not consistent with his overall portrayal.

>>2807755
If WWE doesn't exactly follow the Rocky format and instead has a draw that people boo, he can arguably do a Mayweather.

Mayweather got his riches by winning all the time with boring matches but people want him to get beat, so they keep buying his PPV.

>>2807763
>and instead has a draw that people boo,

Again: this only works if Reigns turns heel.

>>2807785
If he works face and people boo but still buy money to see him beaten up, he can still function with the Mayweather format.

Especially since he'd also have smarks seething.

>>2807795
>but still buy money to see him beaten up,

Live attendance has been tanking in the past couple of years.

If a babyface is getting booed and people want t to see him lose, he's not a [whatever-the-fuck-you-wanna-call-him].

He's a HEEL.

>>2807802
>Live attendance has been tanking in the past couple of years.

He's only hitting his stride tho. Also, several draws of the WWE retired one after another, from Edge to Bryan to Undertaker. So of course they're down.

They're still making a huge profit regardless though, especially Roman merch, so they're not all that worried.

>>2807815
Edge retired 7 years ago and Undertaker hasn't consistently worked house shows since around then, either.

I was specifically referring to post-Reigns winning the Royal Rumble. ;)

And fwiw certain other acts have consistently drawn bigger houses than Reigns even in said timeframe.

>a huge profit

WWE has an embarrassingly low ROI.

Honestly, the WWE has completely soured me on Roman Reigns. Absolutely nothing he does now will make me a fan of him. If he's on TV I mute it, or change the channel.

>>2807823
John Cena is a part-timer, Brock is a part-timer, and Goldberg is a part-timer.

So of course with reduced draws, they have to find a new draw. AJ was made B-side, so he's not it.

They're going with Roman all the way and even with the smaller revenue they have compared to the Attitude Era in house shows and PPVs, it's not a coincidence that they're still profitable because they have other means of reaching out or making a profit, from the network to doing more house shows to incorporating the indies into NXT.

They'll be fine with experimenting with Reigns.

>>2807823
>WWE has an embarrassingly low ROI.

Only because they unlike the Indies or NJPW are covering the world. Which also explains why they're still turning a bigger profit than all of NJPW and all the Indies combined.

Stay bitter.

>>2807842
>WWE's metrics are not strong enough to speak for themselves
>Post dripping in "BUT UNLIKE THOSE OTHER DUMB NOT-WWE COMPANIES"......
If your business metrics are not strong enough to make your argument and you have to resort to attacking the competition, your position is nowhere near as strong as you think.
Also your post REEKS of bitterness Stamford wife.

>>2807857
>If your business metrics are not strong enough to make your argument and you have to resort to attacking the competition

I'm not attacking the competition. I'm stating the fact that, as Meltzer would take note, they're not competition to WWE.

Not even close.

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>>2807867
lmao @ ur life rn

>>2807879
>can't refute
>choose to post laughing whores

Stick a fork in him. He's done.

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>>2807891
lmao

How would /asp/ get Roman over?

>>2806118
It's fucking great, I absolutely hate him. I just wish they'd treat him like the heel he so obviously is.

@2807898

Your lack of a rebuttal warms my heart.

>>2807903
>Can't even reply to posts properly anymore
AHAHAHA OH MY GOD
FUCKING DONE IN
DESTROYED
GOTTEN TO
AHAHAHAHAHAHAHA

>>2807900
I would have him beat Brock clean at Summerslam; reunite the Shield since they're all faces, and then have them turn heel. Have Roman beat Cena at Wrestlemania, and kickstart a new Reign of Terror. At the next Wrestlemania he beats AJ Styles, but a face cashes in money in the bank, so the show ends on a high note. Reigns stays a heel throughout the year, and wins the next Royal Rumble. Cena also wins the title at the Royal Rumble, and then they have Cena vs Roman II, and Cena wins. By this time Seth and Dean will be faces again, so Roman can come out to help them, and start his face turn.

>>2807916
>Just redoing heel Shield

I didn't know WWE Creative was posting on /asp/.

>>2807923
It's where we go to get away from /r/sc smarks, and talk about Based Bid Dog.

>>2807842
>covering the world
>barely taking home more profits than New JAPAN

>>2807934
Actually, they're taking four times the profits of New Japan and all of the Indies plus New Japan can't even match their profits.

So they're doing fine.

>>2807840
Every related metric has proven the Reigns experiment to be an objective failure

>house shows aren't profiting like we expect
>better do even more of them

d00d

>>2807942
sauce

>>2807944
http://corporate.wwe.com/news/company-news/2017/02-09-2017

>Revenue increased 11% to $729.2 million, the highest in the Company’s history, including record levels of revenue from its Network, Television, Live Event, Venue Merchandise, and WWE Shop segments

https://www.reddit.com/r/SquaredCircle/comments/5252gk/njpw_revenue_2016_fiscal_year_32_million_32/
https://twitter.com/enuhito_eng/status/774567497756319745

>NJPW Revenue 2016 Fiscal Year = $32 Million (¥3.2 Billion), $5 Million More Than Last Year

It's not even close.

>>2807944
>Every related metric has proven the Reigns experiment to be an objective failure
>top in the merch department after departing from the shield

Huh.

>>2807951
>Revenue increased 11% to $729.2 million,

Gross or net?

>>2807954
We're comparing revenue from both companies.

>>2807953
>guys pushed hardest sells merch

This has never been quantified, btw. When did he overtake New Day?

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>>2807965
>guys, anyone we push will get the highest merch sales
>muh push

Yeah, those Jinder toilet seats are really flying off the shelves.

>>2806259
Like every Roman victory, there's an asterisk involved.

Joe only won because Roman was distracted.

>>2807970
Jinder has been pushed for 2 months after years of being a joke. Don't be obtuse.

>>2807985
So you want him to job clean and become Dolph Ziggler then?

>>2807986
Smarks keep insisting that Roman is selling merch because he's being pushed when it's the other way around. He's selling merch so he's being pushed.

Otherwise, he'd be in the midcard, like the time when he violated the wellness policy.

>>2807993
>literally the first match back after his suspension was main eventing a PPV for the WWE World Title

>>2807989
>muh Roman won't be over if he loses clean

That means he's not actually over.

Big Dog shouldn't change now

He is best at working the smarks

>>2808050
>working 1.3 million and counting into changing the channel

>>2808060
R E K T
E
K
T

>>2808015
Smarks: Roman should lose clean week after week to put over other talent. It won't affect his push as long as he's always in the main eventt!

Also Smarks: Why is Bray always losing? Even though he's always in the main event, he's always losing so I can't take him seriously anymore!

>Smarks in charge of making sense.

>>2808147
>memeposting

Thanks for proving my point that if Reigns was held to the same standards as everybody else nobody would care about him.

>>2808147
Smarks are hypocrites

>I'll cheer Roman when he's a heel

>>2808183
>things nobody ever said anywhere ever

>>2808183
>I'll cheer a wrestler when his character changes to something I'd enjoy more

Geez, who would've thought

>>2808147
Anti smarks: let me make some retarded claim that revolves around my inability to understand any point whatsoever or is completely made up

Anti smarks: I'm so smart, Roman is good, I love brown cocks amd I'm totally not gay

>Anti smarks in charge of anything whatsoever


>>2808183
No smark wharsoever will cheer Roman, you are making that up. Noone ever said it but (you)

>>2808183
yeah look at how much Sheamus got cheered when he turned heel

or how Full Sail completely turned around on Bo Dallas after he turned

>>2808234
>both Sheamus and Bo Dallas are now heatless wonders

I know what you're trying to do. You want Roman to lose his heat.

>>2808290
If the only reason somebody gets heat is because they're an overpushed shitty face they're not worth pushing.

>>2808317
>Who is the Rock?
>Who is John Cena?

>>2808345
Guys whose ONLY reason for getting heat WASN'T being an overpushed shitty face?

>>2808356
>he doesn't remember Rocky Maivia and his run as an overpushed babyface that got "Die, Rocky! Die!" chants.
>he doesn't remember John Cena's first run and how people were expecting him to flop like they are with Roman now, thus resulting in them booing him for being overpushed

18+ site.

>>2808370
I'd ask if you're being this obtuse deliberately but you've firmly established yourself as dumb by now.

>Rock turned heel
>maintained heat throughout
>eventually turned face after becoming GOAT

>>2808390
>Cena permanently went face
>faced with a 50-50 chorus of boos and yays
>or gets booed out of the building like in One Night Stand 2006
>gets merch dosh and the respect of Stone Cold Steve Austin as a long-running babyface and the childhood of many a Millennial and Gen Z out there

Roman has two options. Or a potential third option. A true tweener. A face and draw that gets booed like Mayweather.

>>2808402
Mayweather is not a "face". He's an unlikable dipshit who everybody wants to see get beaten.

>Cena permanently went face
>WWE has been shrinking its audience base ever since

>>2807286
>before slowly turning the crowd around.and earning his main event spot again.
This is such blatant revisionist history I am almost completely certain that you work for WWE.

>>2808427
he does it (for free)

>>2808412
Mayweather is a face to all his brothas and sistas. He's a heel to everyone else. And a draw. And he damn well did not put anyone over in his 49-0 fights.

>>2808427
>>2808437
That's exactly what happened though.

I don't particularly like Reigns and think he would be better as a Heel, but I appreciate that, if they're going face, they're going with this character. The way they have been booking him for the past half year or so is rock solid.