/mag/ martial arts general

I'll ask again, why are there white and black variations of kung fu styles, like white/black mantis?

why are MA gyms so fucking expensive

>>2712375
I am Chinese and have an academic interest in Chinese martial arts and have never heard of white or black mantis.

There is a white crane style, but there is also a white crane bird...

>>2712480
equipment overhead, instructor salaries, insurance, and because they aren't open for much of the day most of the time so short windows to do business in mean high prices

>new guy at jiujitsu
>one of those adult virgin types
>greasy hair
>toenail fungus
>weird sores on parts of his body
>smells
>doesn't even smell like BO
>smells kind of cheesy

I don't want to fucking work with this kid. I don't need to be catching anything from him because he doesnt bathe. Pisses me off, he has to go.

I Don't even feel entirely comfortable with him being on the mat at all

>>2712768
it only works if you shout forbidden technique before you do it

>>2712544
I thought nearly all gyms have rules against bad personal hygiene. In the first place I used to train, we had showers and once we were cordially invited to wash our feet (all of us), because someone had such bad odour it was basically made everyone uncomfortable. Yeah, it was embarrassing, but we never had a similar problem.

I fucked the girl who goes to my gym lads

>>2712861
Didn't ask

>>2712544
Just bully him until he fucks off forever?

>>2712856
It just hasn't really been a problem before. You know, a bunch of guys doing sports occasionally someone is a little smelly from time to time. it's ok, you just go with it. I don't think we've ever had someone that was outright unclean though to the point of being hazardous
>>2712909
this might be the only reasonable course of action

conditioning, how much do you do and which type?

>>2712480
Most people don't give a shit about martial arts.

When people give more of a shit about them, like wrestling, they're free in public schools.

>>2712861
That'd be cool and all if we were 13 years old.

>>2712375

Sometimes referes to northern vs. southern sub styles. Black is traditionally the color of the north.

But you also have "seven stars", "eight steps" or "plum blossom", so..


>>2712926

I think what anon meant was to give everyone a speech about the importance of washing properly before training He probably just doesn't know better.

Of course everybody will know it's not about them, but about the new guy, but this way everybody can save face.

And if he doesn't change you can still call him out the next time "hey, last lesson we talked about hygiene, remember?"

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>>2713255

>>2713102
Since I don't have the tools, I only do closed fist and 10-finger push-ups, lately I've been trying walking on the big toe; I'd try to get a makiwara but it seems like it would make too much noise

Of course also normal push-ups and crunches

>>2712480
Because America has a retarded pricing system when it comes to martial arts.

>>2713631
so you're saying I shouldn't call him a smelly faggot and shove him down?

>>2713681

Whoa, there is an anime about moot?

>>2712544
>>2712909
>>2712926

You tell him politely that he needs to clean himself. you dont make an ass of yourself. If your a senior in that place you have a responsibility to help new students adjust to the new training regime.

>>2714555
who?

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So, what do near people think about you training martial arts? Whichever style it is.

My father and my niece used to train martial arts, but my father used to train some kickboxing thing, while my niece used to train TKD. Even to these days, my father believes my niece was training some boring, useless crap, and when I started training kung fu - full contact (think on something much more closer to sanda than wing chun), he used to tell me to keep going on, because that was the real deal. "Unlike the stuff your niece is training, that's useless garbage". Needless to say, he is kind of proud of me.

However, my mother believes is too violent and now and then have asked me why I don't just go to the gym like any regular human being. My wife displays this weird mix of worry and anger every time we talk about some tournament (and how much will you pay to being punched on the face?!), and the people at the office can't decide if I'm some kind of big mouthed fanboy, or some genuine thug.

And no, I don't go talking about ripping their hearts and show them before they die, or some dumb shit. Is just whenever we talk about sports or past times, I use to mention I train MA. I don't bring it into every chit chat everyday, but looks like hearing about it for the first time always changes people perception about me, and not always in a good way.

>>2715271
I never know whether to tell people I teach karate, because the action of telling itself sounds very cocky.
I imagine they think I'm an autist for even saying it.

My father told me some times that it wasn't very realistic, my mother forced me to keep going even though I wanted to stop in my teens.

sup bros

what martial art would you recommend for someone with a previous ACL tear? my knee makes me nervous and although I want to start training either boxing or bjj I get really worried about the chance of retearing it.

are any martial arts less heavy on the knees or safer during training?

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>>2715642
Catch wrestling is for you.

>>2715642

With a bad knee boxing is pretty much you best option..

Grappling can work, but you train your legs a lot and it's not as "controlled" as boxing, as you suddenly may find yourself in an unexpected position and put a lot of stress on your leg.

Honestly, I'd take Judo over BJJ if it's for your knees, if you don't overdo it. Ground fighting includes way more "leg movement" than standup. And Judo doesn't have the deep stances of Wrestling.

>>2715642
I think Wing chun is the only martial art that doesn't have you bouncing around or stressing the knee, 95% of it is bad though

>>2715642
my goju shihan has had a double knee replacement due to the decades of abuse his body went through training and fighting for glory

as we all know, goju is about hard and soft, and now that his body is broken down he opts to deal mostly with the soft techniques and doesn't do any kicks that require a twisting motion, Front and back kicks only

>>2715642
swimming

>>2715642
Pretty much what >>2716122 said. You could try karate as long as you know it's not one of the styles that tells you to stand and eat the leg kicks.

Or you could, if you believe enough time has passed and you train a bit at the gym for fitness.

>>2716122
Rec judo is fine and safe. You will likely never be viable in competition with an ACL injury, though. Even at the local level, you will struggle to get a place on the podium.

>>2716895
Point sparring karate is bad on your knees because you bounce a lot
I'd also try to stay away from anything with very deep stances

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How do I get over my fear of getting hit in Boxing?
Is the answer simply to just Man Up and get on with it?

>>2716994
best answer is get hit and realize it's not that bad

>>2716994
Train your layers of defense while someone taps at you. Parry, stiff arm, head movement, clinch, etc. You want to replace flinching or freezing with actual useful shit.

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>>2712779
Nice one.
gif for thanks.

>>2715271
I recently started training in BJJ (entering my third month). My family likes that I'm doing something that isn't school. My dad says he likes Karate more because he thinks it's better for self-defense.

>>2717816
Karate is so damn stiff. I mean some karate is good but bjj makes you hella confident especially on the ground. you should spar your dad and get him in a rear naked choke.

>>2717971
however even joe the dickrider rogan admits bjj makes people overconfident in thinking they can take people out and whether punches

it's actually pretty hard to grapple someone that doesnt want to grapple with you, and one good straight that tings your bell throws all your bjj technique out the window

Drained my first cauliflower after a little under a year of bjj. So i started bringing some head gear for randori. I kinda feel like a goof wearing my old wrestling gear to practice though.

>>2718259
just tap to those guillotines bruh, don't try to be a hero

and also you should get the button procedure done
squeezes it nice and tight so fluid wont come back in. Makes it harder to get them in the future

>>2717971
Nah, my dad isn't a fighter. Karate is just more popular.

>>2718019

This.

BJJ is a great martial art, but it's only one part of the equation. You should have at least basic punching/kicking skills, so you can take a punch or lowkick without getting KO.

>>2718695
people should train their BJJ more like Damian Maia and less like Jacare

>>2715642
boxing
bjj
judo - wreslting
cacc
from the less to the most dangerous for your knees.
>>2716122
Judo is way worst for the knees than bjj. Judo is way worst than bjj regarging the practice stopping injuries.
After doing them both, for more than a decade, I can tell you bjj black belt ages way better and practice way longer.

how do you assess your own punching power? does punching a wall work or is that too retarded?

>>2719024
Punching walls just ruins your hand, you have to punch something that gives

Guys I just got myself a 75 pound boxing bag and i was wondering if I necessarily need gloves to punch it. I practice a style of karate where we spar a lot without gloves, so I am very used to punching bare knuckle. I still use wraps to prevent my knuckles opening up.

>>2719084
I think gloves are to avoid scratching the knuckles but if you punch properly it shouldn't happen

>>2719113
I would say gloves are to protect people's soft little babby hands, and most importantly to keep their wrist straight automatically

wraps should be sufficient for conditioned hands. I should start using them myself because my hands are all cut up literally 100% of the time

>>2719084
Gloves are to help you prevent arthritis.

>>2719084
Your sparring in Karate probably only had you punching at the chest/stomach and didn't have head punches, which can damage your wrists/fists if you hit them improperly.

Most cheap punching bags tend to be filled sloppily, with sandbags placed irregularly instead of stuck in the center. These bags tend to be very hard-packed and can really damage the wrists/hands on impact since they're almost like punching cinder blocks.

Just buy a cheap pair of hand wraps for wrist/knuckle bone stabilization and these bag gloves:

https://www.titleboxing.com/glove-sale/fighting-fit-bag-gloves

And save yourself some potential injury.

>>2719834
>Just buy a cheap pair of hand wraps for wrist/knuckle bone stabilization and these bag gloves:

>>2719084
>I still use wraps to prevent my knuckles opening up.

>>2719024
>how do you assess your own punching power? does punching a wall work or is that too retarded?
How would punching a wall help you assess your punching power?

>>2715271
>ripping their hearts and show them before they die, or some dumb shit.
Hey, Ameri-Do-Te is serious bussines.

>>2716994
Don't get over it, use it to motivate your defense and dodging training.
But you should get used to it in sparrings (as they don't hit full force) to realize it's not such a big problem.

>>2716994
>study psychology for 1 year
>study applied psychology for 2 years
>learn about yourself for 3 years
>apply psychology to yourself for 4 years
>profit?
>create a field of applied martial arts psychology?

>>2721978
>since it's not such a big problem
>spar and be okay with punches for a few months
>get comfortable with getting hit
>it's not so bad.jpeg
>gym holding fights amongst each other as part of training and to spice things up
>get a fight
>throw some jabs
>feel out opponent while throwing a lot of jabs
>fake jab to head to cross to body
>try to create distance
>get cross to solar plexus, super effective
>bent over
>hook to liver
>fall to ground in pain
>all because we didn't spar full connect

>>2718921

>Judo is way worst for the knees than bjj. Judo is way worst than bjj regarding the practice stopping injuries.

I have also done both (arguably BJJ only for a short while). And in my opinion BJJ is not necessarily softer to your body.

For your average Judoka who does a few low level competitions every now and then, you can get away without getting injured at all. If you insist to land on your shoulder or do fancy shit, just to prevent to let the other guy win, then it's somehow your own fault..

In BJJ it's way easier to get something twisted or cauliflower ears. High level BJJ has leglocks, omoplatas and shitload of guards where you bend your knees a lot. And if you are not on your back, you are on your knees most of the time, I found this very stressful for my knees.

So on high level competitions, Judo is harder than BJJ. But if you don't plan on becoming a high level athlete, I would say Judo is easier. Once you got the break falling down, that is.

>>2724466
My point is that I roll wy many 50+ y.o. bjj'ers and maybe did randori with 1 or 2 more than 45 y.o. judokas in tachi waza. Ne-waza, the gladly roll with me.
Numbers speak for themselves, as the judo pool is between 2 or 3 times bigger here.

>>2724466
What I actually forgot is that the general rate of injuries is worst in Judo, neck, shoulders, back, hips, ankles...

>>2724790
I like the idea of judo as a sport, at its core it's a very simple an noble game. Enter the circle and try to knock the other guy over before he can do it to you

but then in practice the game itself is nowhere near fun enough to play compared to the risk of injury

that said, maybe I would like freestyle judo more instead of this olympic shit I have been learning. I'm sorry but I just can't respect it when there are easier ways to do things but you need to do them in a convoluted way because of rules. Also olympic judo basically does what sport karate did and takes a viable martial art and makes it next to worthless in real life.
Suddenly we will find ourselves with judo black belts that don't know what to do when someone grabs their legs

>>2724466
>if you are not on your back, you are on your knees most of the time
That's hot.

>>2724943
You are being overly dramatic. Did you even practice judo before the 2010 rule changes? Does your belt have any color on it?

Freestyle? Olympic? Kosen? The rules only dictate how you play in competition. They are not different styles or schools. Judo is judo.

>>2725778
I got my black belt in 6 months.

>>2725778
My judo club is a competitive judo club, it is practiced explicitly for sport. If it's not tournament legal, it isn't taught end of story

>>2726018
Six months? Did Amazon delay shipping because you are not a Prime member? Or did FedEx lose the package?

>>2726018
>six month judo blackbelt

lol ok, did you get your bjj blackbelt in a year too

What use is a knife hand when you can use a fist? Slipping through a tight guard?

>>2728082
it's for when you need a precision impact point like chopping at the bicep, the throat and neck, or behind the ear

>>2727512
Its possible if you have a lot of experience if a related art. I once met a guy who did it in less than a year.

>>2712861
That made me wonder: does anyone here have dated girls who train the same martial art than you?

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I like reading about pugilism after class.
What are some good old fashioned "Dirty Boxing" books/manuals/techniques?

>>2718921
>cacc
Are you fucking retarded?

>>2729016
why was boxing ever respected as a martial art
>the english were known to be great fighters!
who actually thought this other than the english themselves?

it's kind of silly to me that deliberately ignoring everything below the waist is what's considered the gold standard of basic self defense, when a nut shot or stomp to the knee will end a fight much more easily than any knock out would

>>2729557
I'm gonna assume you're shitposting and baiting and that you know boxing used to have a lot less rules.

>>2729977
Tell us all about Boxing since you're obviously an expert on Boxing and you're surely more educated than everybody here.

>>2730140
Nice strawman kravfag
>muh nut shotz
If anything a boxer should be more worried about lack of single leg defense than nut shots. A knee stomp seems iffy too. Kicking the fuck out of the side of someones knee or some chasse bas shit straight on the knee proably makes more sense, unless thays what you meant by knee stomp. Its just that boxing is a lot fucking older than the English.

>>2730181
>Nice strawman
I just wanted you to tell me about some Boxing history.

>kravfag
>muh nut shotz
Bring back IDs when?

>>2730203
But anon, having to either guess who's who or try to recognize people through posting styles is fun.

>>2730333
Except everybody's pretending to be someone else. You could very will be thinking some very untrue about someone.

>>2729977
boxing a shit and you know it
when ever someone is taunting someone else with a fighting stance they always drop into one of those ye olde time fisticuffs positions, because it's fucking silly and it sends the message to the other person "I'm so much better than you I can do this retarded shit and still win"

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>>2729557
>>2730140
>>2730203
>>2731313
You know it used to have a shit load of grapples and throws right?

>>2731504
looks like wing chun for white people. there's a reason nobody fights like that

stances can be worked around, stances are dumb. I don't teach stances, I teach fluidity

>>2731504
That's not Boxing.

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What do you do when you're a taller Kickboxer and a shorter Kickboxer with shorter reach gets close to you and you can't hit with very much power since that Kickboxer is so close?

>>2732419
circle

>>2732419
push kick/teep or jab them then circle

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>>2712369
Sup /asp/, /fit/izen here. Never been in here, don't know how your board works.
Best martial art to defend against/disarm a knife wielder? Assume carrying isn't an option and running away might endanger someone who was accompanying me and can't defend themselves, so I have to fight. Judo? Box? Thanks in advance.

>>2732786
Use a weapon yourself, unharmed you have an immense disadvantage. You can put cloth around your arm to not get cut
If you must, use something that keeps you at a distance but has full contact sparring

>>2732810
Assume that I want to learn a martial art for the sake of learning a martial art, and while I'm at it, might as well learn an useful one instead of one with impractical arbitrary rules like karate

>>2732824
>Assume that I want to learn a martial art for the sake of learning a martial art, and while I'm at it, might as well learn an useful one instead of one with impractical arbitrary rules like karate
krav maga?

>>2732824
Karate depends on understanding it, there's people who brought point sparring to MMA and won their share.
The only thing that can save you from getting stabbed is being away from the knife
But given that you seem like you just want to flex your muscles and get some pussy, >>2732834 is right

>>2732834
>Jew meme MA
>>2732838
>you seem like you just want to flex your muscles and get some pussy,
Ok, your board is shittier than /fit/ holy shit
Bye

>>2732852
Bye

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>>2732824

>>2712861
If you're going to post that at least have the shitposting fortitude to greentext it

>>2732824
>instead of one with impractical arbitrary rules like karate
How about actually gpoing to a good dojo and taking a Karate class there, instead of talking shit about it, or any other art for that matter, especially when you've literally never trained in your life going by
>Assume that I want to learn a martial art for the sake of learning a martial art
>>2732852
You being an ignorant retard doesn't make /mag/ shit. >>2732838 's right

>>2729557
>it's kind of silly to me that deliberately ignoring everything below the waist
That's how the art formed/developed. If you don't like it, choose another one.
>>2730140
>Tell us all about Boxing since you're obviously an expert on Boxing and you're surely more educated than everybody here.
How about you actually take a boxing class before talking shit about something you clearly know nothing about.
>>2731525
>looks like wing chun for white people. there's a reason nobody fights like that
Except the people who do/did? You do realize bare-knuckle fighting, is and will look, different than gloved fighting with rules, right.
>stances can be worked around, stances are dumb.
Stances are crucial to pretty much every martial art, even "soft" ones, with more "fluidity" as you put it.
>I don't teach stances, I teach fluidity
Then you're a shit teacher.

>>2732786

Filipino martial arts.
You need to train with weapons to understand weapons.

If you have no FMA at your place, try something like MuayThai or Boxing and train a lot of parrying (a stiff arm block against a knife is not so good).

Grappling against weapons is not really a good idea, you want to move a lot, grab something you can use as weapon and hit with a nasty shot that strikes him down. Therefore the FMA.

Oh and..
>disarm a knife wielder

Forget about that. If you're up against a knfie it's a game of who is faster in disabeling/wounding/killing the other person. Everything else is pretty much fantasy.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=D0jwpwzGpGQ

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>>2731525
>>2732413
>durr what is context?
Read a history book m80s.

>>2729557

>why was boxing ever respected as a martial art

Because it's the most sophisticated martial art when it comes to punching and punching defense. Even MuayThai was heavily influenced by western boxing.

And punching is the first thing people do in a fight. The distance to the head is very short, so a punch to the head is much more likely to hit than a kick.

Every martial art has some kind of striking, even Karate, TaeKwonDo or Judo, lel..

But Boxing makes it a science. You don't just "jab", but you have a few dozen different ways to use the jab:
to measure the distance, to make him flinch and create an opening, to tear down his defense, to powerjab him off his feet, as a counter, to keep the other guy from following you when you move backwards..


>it's kind of silly to me that deliberately ignoring everything below the waist is what's considered the gold standard of basic self defense, when a nut shot or stomp to the knee will end a fight much more easily tha

You could also say "Why do Kickboxers not have takedowns or groundfighting, when a solid double leg could easily end the fight.."

But it doesn't work like this.

It's not that easy to "nut shot or stomp to the knee" a boxer. He will not just stand there behind his boxing guard and wait for you to come. No, he will explode with an incredible fast and powerfull strike that is directed at your face.

Look at youtube, most "boxer vs. thug" fights are over with one or two punches, because the other guy doesn't even see it coming.

And if you manage to put our arms up, boxing is all about predicting and provoking reactions. So a short jab at your face make you rise your arms, but it was only a fake, because the second punch goes staight at your kidney making you gasp for air.

Boxers can take a lot of damage and deliver very powerful and fast strikes in amazing combinations. And they keep on moving the whole time..

It's not the "be all, end all" martial art, but it's pretty devastating.

>>2732975
how about you actually take a boxing class
We excised a lot.

>>2733337
>It's not that easy to "nut shot or stomp to the knee" a boxer.
Except it is extremely easy. It's already easy to kick a kickboxer in the leg. It's already easy to kick a kickboxer in the leg. Kickboxers know leg kicks. They know where leg kicks are coming from, they know what different leg kicks look like, they know different ways to defend against one leg kick, they know different ways to defend against other leg kicks. They train how to use these defenses against those leg kicks, they develop muscle memory for defending against those leg kicks, but they still get kicked in the leg. It's still easy to kick a kickboxer in the leg. It's even easier to kick a kickboxer in the nuts because they don't train for defending against that and they don't see the inside leg kick as often.

It's even easier to kick a boxer in the nuts or knee when he trains to ignore any strikes below the belt, doesn't pay attention to getting kicked, doesn't train to take any kind of kicks, especially leg kicks, doesn't know what it looks like when you're about to get kicked in the leg, doesn't know what different kinds of kicks looks like, and doesn't train at all for defending against any kicks and doesn't have reflexes to help defend against kicks.

>>2733230
>>durr what is context?
Exactly.

>>2733337
>"Why do Kickboxers not have takedowns or groundfighting, when a solid double leg could easily end the fight.."
well I mean that doesn't invalidate what I said about boxing, it just shows other things are susceptible to the same criticisms kickboxing alone is only less bad then regular boxing. This goes back to stances and fluidity

the way you stand should be dynamic and situational based on many things like distance between you and the person you're fighting

example, boxer gets in a fight, they are standing 5 feet away from their opponant, they shell with their hands up and start bobbing their head from side to side
the fuck you doing retard? we aren't close enough to have any exchange with our hands so why are you moving around like that's what we are doing? the only thing you're in immediate danger of is a forward blitz in which case you're tight immobile boxing stance isn't going to serve you. You should be loose, relaxed, open, hands down so you'r prepared for what ever level I come at you from. You should only have your hands up if you're actually in immediate danger of getting struck by punches or tied up, and you're too close to be stuck by kicks
and if you are in that mid range limbo, so should your hands and feet be. Hands to the middle so they can protect the head or legs, and footwork spread for mobility, not tight for punching power

>>2733400
If your nuts present as large of a target as your legs, you should see a physician

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>>2725778
>Did you even practice judo before the 2010 rule changes?
I did and it was much funnier.
Kata guruma was my got to tthrow. kibisu gaeahi one of my favourite techniques...
Started as white belt, and cannot find the same fun.
>>2726018
No one of the national federation recognized by IJF allow you to become a black belt with less than a year as a white belt.
>>2729019
Nope. I've seen some legit technique from them, but the injury rate is astonishing.
>>2729557
>why was boxing ever respected as a martial art?
headbutt, elbows, grappling and striking interwinded.
>it's kind of silly to me that deliberately ignoring everything below the waist
Greco-roman wrestling is a thing too, but y0u don't practice enough to understand, sorry.

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>>2733134
>Grappling against weapons is not really a good idea
I think this needs to be quantified.

The right kind of grappling can be a good idea. For example, isolating the weapon arm and moving to a position where it's hard for them to attack you, but you can attack them.

Doing something like going into a clinch without controlling the weapon or pulling guard is an invitation to get shanked repeatedly.

>>2733134
If you have to fight grappling is one of your better options against someone with a weapon. using a make shift weapon is another option but any fight with short weapons could easily turn into armed grappling, especially it its say, your job to bring the guy in alive.

>>2734139
>tfw started judo a couple months ago
Wish I could have learned leg grabs but shits still cool.

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No leg kick boxing
Kick punch better than punch step
Ultimate Goju

Jab, cross, pivot, uppercut
Parry, bob and weave
Mike Tyson damn good

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Taekwondo, by Anon Anerson:

Distances, fakes, and counters
No kicks below waist
Spinning, turning, kicks

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Judo is the best
All others blow the fuck out
The ultimate truth

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Knees, elbows, punches, and kicks
Clinch, sweeps, throws, takedowns
The art of 8 limbs

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Winners dominating boys
Men in leotards
Oil checks, shower rooms

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Gay Brazilian pajama wrestling
Hot man on man action
True love

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Center line, softness
Balance, in-fighting
Sublimity of heaven

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As a black belt in Karate should I pick up Judo or BJJ to supplement my skills?
How much should I be paying a month?
In Austrlia fyi

>>2735668
Judo will more easily fit into your current game and give you a fairly complete standing game with okay ground game to boot, whereas BJJ will leave you with mediocre standing grappling while expertly cover the biggest hole in your current skillset.

My advice would be taking trial classes and seeing which you like best/has the most compatible class schedule. Overall BJJ will be more expensive than Judo.

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>>2735849
yeah seems so BJJ is fucking so expensive. Well I guess judo is the way to go thanks!

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>>2733333
>>2733337
>Look at youtube, most "boxer vs. thug" fights

Oh, you silly, everybody knows there's no such thing as "style vs..." videos on youtube. People who practise the losing style will overflow the comments section explaining why the loser was some random newbie who didn't display the true power of their style, how he could have won with some expert technique (only black belts allowed!) and something about how unfair was the fight because muh forbidden techniques!

[/sarcasm]

Said that, let's take a view of boxing vs...

Muay thai:
https://youtu.be/4vQiPgt1ldg

Karate
https://youtu.be/kNAbVF_yWhU
https://youtu.be/XWAHCkEGd7M

kung - fu
https://youtu.be/MC3-_vsQD6M

tkd
https://youtu.be/tTJ2Vid5IHg

mma
https://youtu.be/DnLpgWtnuJo
https://youtu.be/rgltmqCVhos
https://youtu.be/q8rVkYuNJJo

I tried to look after sanctioned fights (ring, referee and stuff) that were also kind of old, in order to find something that resembles the original pure style, rather than the blend everybody trains these days. Is surprising how many boxers in throw kicks and knees these days, outside of official boxing matches, obviously. But I digress.

I think these videos show one important point: boxing on the offensive is a real danger. Meme styles with supposedly longer reach (kicking) can't find the room to properly apply those techniques, and once the boxer find an opening is over. However, their defence is shit, so they are very prone to counter attacks (the thai guy dominated the match with his knees), and because this aggressive approach, grappler styles can easily turn around the fight with some basic throw and lock.

I wouldn't dismiss boxing. As proven, it can be very effective to KO even pro fighters. It have very evident weakness, but in a pure striking match, it can stand up to basically any other style, despite skipping leg days. And no, kicking a boxer isn't easy as it looks.

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This autist can't keep their wrestling shit in one thread Jesus Christ.

Anyways hi anons, I'm about to sign up for a martial arts class but I'm a Manlet (5'5") and wanna know which would be more beneficial for me to learn Mauy Thai or BJJ? Thanks anons :)

>>2736395
Depends on what you're looking for. Obviously if you want to grapple, BJJ. If you want to focus more on striking, Muay Thai. If you're looking for self-defense though I'd recommend Muay Thai. I don't believe BJJ is that effective in a real altercation.

>>2736260
>kicking a boxer isn't as easy as it looks
It really ls. Everyone from thugs to me to professionals have done it.

>>2736449
Yea from what I know BJJ is grappling and relies on your center of gravity to throw someone (right?)

I'm a small guy but although I've been gaining weight I feel I'd need to be pretty stocky to effectively grapple anyone.

Muay Thai is normally kicks and elbows right?

>>2736464
>Yea from what I know BJJ is grappling and relies on your center of gravity to throw someone (right?)
Judo is more about throwing people. BJJ is more about getting good positions and getting your opponent into submissions.

>Muay Thai is normally kicks and elbows right?
See >>2735376
Muay Thai is a striking art that's like Kickboxing except you can also do certain kinds of grappling and throws.

>>2736464
>BJJ
>throw
bjj is grabbing on to someone and gently pulling them down like an anchor. They throw less than wrestlers

>>2736395
>BJJ?
see >>2735419

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>>2736260
>Meme styles with supposedly longer reach (kicking) can't find the room to properly apply those techniques

>>2737565
>One .gif vs half dozen videos.
>We don't even know for sure who won the fight on that .gif

Yeah, anon, you really put me on my place
.

>>2737572
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zQ7bbmjtAB0
Running scared the entire fight, and when he finally gets in he gets shut down and kneed in the face. This is a world class boxer.

Do a lot of fighters look "fat" at their walking weight?

By that I mean 6 pack abs and aesthetic?

>>2737773
Pretty sure that's almost all heavyweights

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>>2734315
HEMAbro, don't bother.

Most of these guys are too deep in the "Muh JewJitsu/KrabMahGee/Kali Ekscrement Anus".

I recall a TAPORSNAPbro arguing that since no one uses rondels or, get this, ice-pick/reverse grips anymore none of the techniques would work, that's why "... The West evolved to use Japanese martial arts..."

I even used Wiktenauer to cite my argument that the forward-grip used in a slashing motion was still known and dealt with. But no, "... Everyone wore chainmail under their clothes so slashing was pointless..."

>tfw only the local Dog Brothers and CMA club like discussing and trying out WMA knife defence

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Also, for boxing/striking bros I highly recommend this book.
Feels good when grapplers don't understand why they're flying.

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>>2737773
Does this answer your question?

>>2737964
Yeah, but I have a follow up question. If I had 10% bodyfat, would the amount of weight I could cut be limited opposed to if I had 15% or whatever bodyfat?

>>2738012
Yes. The less excess weight you carry, the harder it is to lose it. Fat is excess weight.

>>2737866
Not a boxer, but do you have it in digital format by any chance? My curiosity as a grappler is piqued.

>>2733400

This is wrong on so many levels, I don't even know where to start..

>It's already easy to kick a kickboxer in the leg.

Yes, but leg kicks don't magically end fight. They can't keep an attacker from getting into close range. Now you will probably post a video of a world class Kickboxer ending the fight in one kick - but that is not what I am talking about. The average kickboxer/thaiboxer doesn't have a "one shot" KO kick, at least if your opponent is somehow trained.

I could give you my anecdotal evidence (having trained in different martial arts), but I prefer to show you real life examples:

Here is a video of a street fight, notice the leg kick at 0:40 doesn't prevent the knockout:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jJUw7OXXGwg


Here is a Nak Muay fighting against a Boxer/Judoka. He can't keep him from getting into close range. At 2:30 he even hist him with a low kick, but still can't keep him from getting in:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QvXjF1oadg


Here is a "Thaiboxer vs. Boxer" fight. As you can see, the Thaiboxer tries to use clinch, ellbows, knees and even boxing. Is he too stupid to low kick him? No, but he knows that if he slips on the sandy ground, the boxer can step in and knock the shit out of him:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=l0biBXfc6-k


Last but not least, here is a quality fight between a boxer and a Nak Muay. Eventually the Thai guy wins, but it is a long and very hard fight. The boxer eats a lot of kicks without going down, and the Nak Muay eats a lot of punches:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=505SciSBQY4


I repeat what I said before:
Boxers are very tough and can eat a lot of punches/kicks. Boxers are very fast and can easily destroy "your game" and put you in a defensive position. Boxing is an incredible fundamental martial art, every pro fight trains in pure boxing, no matter if Kickboxer, NakMuay or MMA fighter. It just enhances your punching and your punching defense a big deal.

>>2738174
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7ia35g8wWfk

>>2733870

> it just shows other things are susceptible to the same criticisms kickboxing alone is only less bad then regular boxing

If you are mediocre in a few things, you are not superior to someone who can do one thing exeptionally good.

"Jack of all trades, master of none" is not the way to victory. If you put up a Hapkido guy against a boxer, my money is on the boxer. The Hapkido guy knows kicks, punches, throws, weapons and waht not. But this is not an advantage, becase the boxer has devastating punches that just wreck the other guy.

Now what about MMA? MMA is an exception, because MMA guys don't train "everything a little bit", but they usually have an amazing skillset in some martial art, while being at least decent in the other areas. So you have great thaiboxers that also know a little bit of "ground and pound". Or you have BJJ blackbelts, that cross train in Wrestling and Boxing. MMA is prime because it the essence of a few dozen martial arts.


>boxer gets in a fight, they are standing 5 feet away from their opponant, they shell with their hands up and start bobbing their head from side to side

Bobbing and weaving and all this stuff works. Boxign has nothing in it, that is not pressure tested to the maximum. Of course if you fight against someone who is great at kicks, your movements should be much smaller, or maybe some boxing moves are not advisable. But the general skillset stays the same.


> in which case you're tight immobile boxing stance isn't going to serve you

Once again you are wrong. Boxign has the most fluent movement you can find.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZMEf9xnfmRU

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=457ezBDaRUY

I think Kickboxing or MuayThai are more well rounded, but for street fights I would always prefer Boxing because of the mobility. If you kick you are grounded, but you can punch and move at the same time:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=C2DirtL7JBg

>>2738191

Is this bait?

Your post is showing a (historical) fight between a NakMuay and a Kickboxer. How is this related to pure boxing?

Also I already wrote:
>Now you will probably post a video of a world class Kickboxer ending the fight in one kick - but that is not what I am talking about.

Because usually if the discussion is about boxing, people will post this video here:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zQ7bbmjtAB0

But guess what?
Ignashov is a Kickboxing/MuayThai WORLD CHAMIPION. Also he has definately trained in Boxing, so the correct title would be:
"Boxer vs. Boxer/Kickboxer/Thaiboxer"

If you ever reach the level where you can easily break bones with you shins of steel, where after years of hard training you can kick to the head from infight distance.. yes, THEN its a differernt story. But even great Kickboxer have problems with great boxers, as you can see in one of the many videos I posted.

>>2738174

>


Here is a Nak Muay fighting against a Boxer/Judoka. He can't keep him from getting into close range. At 2:30 he even hist him with a low kick, but still can't keep him from getting in:


Sorry, had the wrong link:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QvXjF1oadgk

>>2738222
Undefeated soon-to-be world champion and kickboxing legend defeated solely with a low leg kick. That wasn't one leg kick, that was leg kicks ending a fight. Kiatsongrit did literally nothing else to attack.

>>2738232

I know who Rick Roufus is.

And I already talked about how world class atlethes are a differernt story.

Also don't get me wrong:
I'm not saying leg kicks are not usefull.
I'm not saying you can't end a fight with a Leg Kick.
Eventually the more tools you know, the better.

But if I would train someone, I'd let him take at least one year in Boxing before starting Kickboxing. Punching is just the more important part (which doesn't mean, Kicking is useless, it can be devastating).

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>>2737866
I think you and me have spoken on /heem/ before but i just want to add this,
Olympic judoka and current UFC fighter Dan Kelly uses a lot of judo grip fighting/kumi kata

and uses it to enhance his boxing, this then resembles a really intricate and useful form of dirty boxing. Pretty much Kelly uses the gloves and wraps and grabs them/clinches and then uses that to set up his punches.

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>>2738267

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>>2738273

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>>2738279

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>>2738282

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>>2738287

>>2736260

>boxing on the offensive is a real danger. Meme styles with supposedly longer reach (kicking) can't find the room to properly apply those techniques, and once the boxer find an opening is over.

This.


>However, their defence is shit

It's not shit, it's pretty great.
But incomplete.

But that doesn't mean every john doe that took a few Karate lessons can exploit the weaknesses of pure boxing. It takes years of dedicated training to do so.


Also on the street nobody tells you; "hey, I'm a pure boxer!"
"Nice, to meet you, mr. boxer, I'm a professional lowkicker.."

Punching is most dominant fighting reaction, no matter what you have trained in, in 99% of all street fights it starts with a punch. And if the puncher is a boxer, the fight might as well be over already.

Now we can nitpick all day and wank about theoreical weaknesses, but the reality shows that Boxers and Judokas are the most dangerous guys on the street.

Why can't people just get over their ego..?


>>2736395

>I'm a Manlet (5'5") and wanna know which would be more beneficial for me to learn Mauy Thai or BJJ?

Depends:

Are you a sturdy manlet full of muscles? Wrestling
Are you a heavy manlet, but not so athletic? Judo
Are you a lanky manlet without muscles? BJJ


MuayThai... Well, why not if you have fun.
But since you will always have inferior reach, your prefered fighting distance would probably be infighting. Therefore Boxing might be a better option for you. But it's all about what makes you happy in the first place.

Just try everythign and see what you enjoy the most.

>>2724943

>Suddenly we will find ourselves with judo black belts that don't know what to do when someone grabs their legs

That's why greco-roman wrestlers are so weak, right?

LMAO

Greco-Roman wrestling

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>>2738267
Honestly /heem/ just seems like memes and shitposting 90% of the time outside of game threads. I don't see much value out of going there anymore outside of webms.

I'm doing judo, and I wanna know whether it would be better for me to train muay thai, or boxing? I know of a nice muay thai place, but I am not a fan of kicking, but I would like some help with the pros and cons of both.

>>2738915
either or are good supplements to your grappling

depends on how you and your coach apply it


Boxing can give you good hands and head movement and you can then use your strikes to set up your grips to throw. or if you can somehow be able to dirty box

Muay Thai is the same, but there are more tools for you when you clinch, so you could ideally grip up, and have the option to throw, take down, slam, knee or elbow

>>2738323
>>2738323
Why do you bring up Greco Roman? its wrestling they have leg grabs unlike judo which is now gimped

>>2738915
Depends on what you want to learn when it comes to being struck.

MT will be more complimentary to clinching and tripping against a resisting opponent, and does use teeps and jabs at distance.

Boxing will be more complimentary to outfighting and moving. If you have knee injuries, you won't have to suffer kicking.

>>2738294
>Why can't people just get over their ego..?
The same reasons why you can't get over your ego.

>>2739186
Greco Roman wrestling's defining feature is no attacks below the waist (tripping/leg attacks)

>>2739560
what since when? how do they do their takedowns? Wrestling is all shots its why we see it in BJJ and UFC so much

>>2738252

>But if I would train someone, I'd let him take at least one year in Boxing before starting Kickboxing.
That's stupid. Kickboxing is Boxing, just with other stuff. You get all of the stuff in Boxing but you get some other stuff on top of that. Not only do you learn how to defend against a Boxer when you learn Kickboxing, you also learn how to defend against kicks and kick-punch combinations. In Kickboxing you learn specialized skills about how to use kicks to your advantage when your opponent is using punches, you learn specialized skills about how to use punches to your advantage when your opponent is using kicks, and you learn specialized skills about how to deal with opponents combinations of punches and kicks. In Kickboxing you learn how to use kicks as well as punches making you harder to defend against when your opponent is using any kinds of Boxing defense.


>Punching is just the more important part (which doesn't mean, Kicking is useless, it can be devastating).
Depends on who you're fighting.

>>2738357
They're stuck in the 16th century.

>>2738915
>>2739180
>>2739340

A good modern Muay Thai place that has serious competitors will be well rounded in their fighting ability. They will give you good hands and head movement. They will give good ways to use your strikes to set up your grips to throw. They will give you good out-fighting ability and movement. They will give you good in-fighting and clinching. They will give you good jabs and teeps at distance. They will give you good roundhouse kicks and side kicks. They will give you good hook kicks. They will give you good knees and good elbows. They will give you good tripping and throws.
They will give you Boxing/American Kickboxing/Karate/Taekwondo/Savate/Dutch Kickboxing/Sanda/Sanshou/Wing Chun/ Traditional Muay Thai/Sport Muay Thai +

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What do you guys think about Bong Sao?

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>>2739660
>how do they do their takedowns?

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=w_8tGC9UEKE

Can someone determine which martial arts style they are using in this video?