"The match both men need to win and the match neither can

It was ruined by the "NUFFIN, WILL EVER B-BE THE SAYME" at the end

>>2621002
Well he wasn't really wrong with that

>>2621000
>Is this the greatest call of all time?
Having Heyman instead of King elevates the call so so much. That is a truly GOAT commentary team.

IS IT SYMBOLIC?

>>2621000
I think the intro of Stone Cold by JR for XIX is amazing though.

Wrestling will never be this good again.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=srhd2fZyDB4

>BIG UPS BIG UPS TO MY BOYS LIMP BIZKIT

>>2621229
>Chocolate Starfish and the Hot Dog Flavored Water

>>2621038
>Wrestling will never be this good again.

Life will ever be this good again.

>>2621012
Absolutely agreed. Heyman's commentary took a 10/10 spectacle to 11.

>>2621229
wew

>>2621000
SHAKING HANDS WITH SATAN HIMSELF

How did you react to the finish? (when it happened - 18+ only, babbies get out)

I never thought Vince could trigger me as hard as he did the previous year (as in with the real life booking, not the character). Yet somehow The Evil Genius outdid himself. The Absolute fucking Madman.

>>2621386
Was 11. Was worked.

It's all anyone at school talked about.

>>2621000

i think was really the ultimate level in wrestling, past, present, future.

>>2621730
This, it was mind blowing.

>>2621828
Mind blowing for being dumb as fuck, they literally told you the last 3 years of your life cheering on Stone Cold against the boss was a waste of your time.

Wrestling will never recover. Even Austinetty knows it was a mistake and he killed the business.

HOW
PERSONAL
CAN THIS
GET

I think one of the reasons this is a 10/10 wm is the commentary team. No King making cringe worthy sex jokes, no Cole raping your ears with sponsors.

It should have been Vince turning face rather than Austin turning heel

>>2621000
This match was among the GOAT for two very important reasons:

1. It was booked as an angle, not a story
2. It represented the purest of wrestling booking. Book that match everyone wants to see to finish out the biggest show of the year.

Often wrestling fans become overly concerned with things like "who does this get over, who does this benefit?" and lose sight of the bigger picture. This match doesn't just get over both men. It gets over the entirety of the wrestling industry. This match was the inevitable conclusion of the Attitude Era, the payoff for the years the fans had spent watching both men. Was the story to get there very contrived and kind of weak? You bet it was. But that doesn't matter. All that matters is they got there. That's what makes it an "angle" not a story. It's what makes it pro wrestling instead of a soap opera. That's another thing current fans get too focused on. They can't separate the process of getting to a match from the match itself. This is not to say that story doesn't matter, because it does, but it should be complimentary to making the best matches possible, not the other way around. You use story and smaller angles to create Stone Cold and the Rock, and then you make one big angle to have them collide. That's what pro wrestling is all about. That's what people pay to see.

A while back I asked what was the last match that would have gotten non-wrestling fans to come in from the kitchen and sit down to watch a match based soley on the wrestlers involved. I got some answers like Rock vs Hogan (which easily qualifies) and Brock vs Undertaker (probably doesn't). But this one has to be in that category. The Rock vs Stone Cold: anyone is going to want to see that.

>>2621994
This is actually a good distinction. Stories get people over, not matches. The best WWE has been recently was Daniel Bryan he had a great story which got him over. Then all he needed was an angle to get to the main event. Part of the reason reigns hasn't gotten over while shield did is because he had no story. Seth was the betrayer and Dean was the betrayed. Both were over with the crowd despite having flaws similar to Roman.

>>2621000
i coulda sworn i've seen this thread months ago

>>2621386

Had no fucking idea what I was watching. Unbelievable

>>2622048
I mean that story kinda happened by accident and never would've concluded the way it did if WWE had its way.

>>2621386
I remember being pretty mad. I fucking hated Vince and The Rock was my favorite.

>>2621857
Vince buying WCW and ECW killed the business, they just happened to coincide. It was just the worst heel turn of all time, no one bought it.

>>2622048
Bryan got over because he had 4* star match every week, but never got a shot at the title. Then exploded with Team Hell No. Same with Cesaro. He got over after the stellar match with Cena.

>>2621975
Hey tumblr

>>2622761
I said "raping" that's not very tumblr of me :^)

>>2622761
>>2622816
btfo

All the signs were there...

- he had an even meaner streak about him since his return

- edgier new music

- was the first to break the nonaggression pact, attacking rock first

- "i need to beat you, rock. i need it more than anything you can imagine."

He was a heel all along, right under our noses, and we missed it. Amazing booking.

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>"...AND IN THIS CONTEST, THERE WILL BE NOOOOOOOOOOO DISQUALIFICATION!"

>What? No disqualification? W-when was that added?

>*GLASS SHATTERS*

>>2623075
Bravo Vince!

What did >le meltz rate this?

>>2623154
****½

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>>2621994
>>2622048

Imagine this today

>And coming up, our main event. Stone Cold versus the Rock.
>Haha I can't wait Tom!
>Two of the biggest names going at it.
>You know this is like some mins of dream ma-
>Shut up Byron you don't need to tell us that.

>>2623075
>Amazing booking
Yet they flushed that all down the toilet by doing it in Texas

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>>2621000
>Feel it, JR. Feel this moment for the rest of your life! Feel it.
>Spicolli Driver by Tommy Dreamer!
>It's the Van Daminator!
>This Invasion just got taken to the extreme
Heyman was GOAT

>>2621038
I don't even remember this years WM video package, how can Wrestlemania be great again?

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>>2621038
>>2621304

>>2621038
This gets me fucking hyped even though I've seen this match like five times.

This is better:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Rfy9SK2I9BQ

>>2623083
incredible.
Loudest pop to start a match in mania history.
one of the greatest fast paces matches ever.
one of the most entertaining matches ever.

>>2621857
I don't think you could be more wrong.

anyone who says Austin's heel turn wasn't best for business, or untimely.. couldn't disagree with you more.

The timing was perfect for austin, the turn itself was perfect.
and it didn't negate Austins history with vince, it made it so that Austin needed the belt and power so badly, he'd do Anything - even side with vince to be king.
beautiful

>>2623907
It made Austin look like Vince's bitch afterwards though. The writing was terrible. He should hav ebeen booked like he had complete control of the company and everyone feared him

>>2623918
psycho Austin was awesome.
and I actually liked that he started to suck up to vince.
though they did it too soon and too hard.

it ultimately kept Austin fresh and kept their money maker in the main event

>>2623918
absolutely. and a powerful heel that won cleanly, or at least cheated with balls...not the chickenshit caricature we saw in the months following mania.

but that was booking's fault. nothing wromg with the CONCEPT of the heel turn, it had been 4 years (3 on top as the undisputed guy, excepting the injury break). There was nowhere else to go for the character. Another year-long programme culminating in another mania title win? There was a real damger of it getting boring, and that would have killed the Austin legacy more than anything else, and we wpuld be complaining about it on here with crying frog memes to this day.

Also people blame the heel turn for the shitty year that was the rest of 01, but that wasn't the fault of Austin as a heel. It was due to thr lack of big match playas. Rock, Trips, Hogan, Flair, Goldberg, Sting. And then making the Alliance mostly WWF guys. That's why the Invasion was shit.

>>2623925
Yeah paranoid Austin was more like it. First the great feud with Angle, then getting jealous and feeling threatened by RVD. But the chickenshit heel right at thr beginning, whining to Vince that Undertaker is in muh room stealing muh beer and chew, do something wah wah! was terrible.

The comedy segments with Angle before the Invasion were GOAT though.

>>2622744
I'd agree, but that all fed into the story. We had a Bret Hart level wrestler being wasted in comedy segments while the boss' friends walked the to main event. The story or the angle doesn't work if Bryan's not a great wrestler putting on amazing matches. That's what you have to do. Find what it is about a wrestler/character that people like or dislike and provide the structure to amplify it. With Stone Cold it was his tough SOB who doesn't give a fuck persona. How do you amplify that? Have him get into a feud with the boss. With the Rock it was his larger than life personality and comebacks, so you put him in feuds where he gets a lot of time to talk (which has to be a heel since no one will like a motor mouth)

Now you have Ambrose, where people like that he's laid back, kind of goofy and doesn't give a fuck. The worst thing you could do to that inherently likable character is to give him a lunatic gimmick. He should be doing more comedic angles. For example I really liked how he tricked people going after Brock to go after his inferior title last week. Made himself the story without fighting anyone. More of that will help him get over.

>>2621038
Now we have to listen to an outdated rap clown at every ppv

Now we have to watch a live rap concert at every wrestlemania

That rap concert usually forces a match off the card

Why did they put Debra managing Rock

They knew Steve was paranoid and possessive and Rock was a sex symbol

>>2624097
I don't even mind musicians at WM but they have to be performing somoene's theme. A live band adds to the big night feel but not if they're just performing their greatest hits + the WM theme.

I wouldn't mind rap either if they were performing AJ's theme or something.

>>2621994
This is some delusional thinking right here, the ratings started falling not long after WM 17. It didn't put the wrestling industry over, rather it did the complete opposite. In fact it's a very good example of what you said being wrong in that for the sake of an angle, storytelling and having a good match are put to the side for the sake of hype. Sure in that very short term from the start of this story till WM there was that hype, but because it relied on this shortrun hype rather than storytelling that makes sense people started caring less and losing interest. Hell, the ending to the match and the storyline that birthed from that missed the entire point of why the angle was such a money making hyped angle to begin with.

>>2624110
IT'S ALL ABOUT THE GAME AND HOW YOU PLAY IT
IT'S ALL ABOUT THE GAME AND IF YOU GAME IT
IT'S ALL THE GAME I DON'T PLAY ME
I AM THE GAME COME *incoherent mumbling*

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>>2623963
You expect me to read
All of that shit

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>>2624555